Salespeople: Help me understand what is wrong with your kind

[Simplex3]

So I get a call from one of our salesmen today. He's all pissed at me because "our email server isn't working". Now I've been sending and receiving emails through no fewer than 5 different accounts all day just fine. So I ask him what email client he's trying to set up and which customer this is for. He gives me the customer and tells me "Outlook Express". I ask him if he's followed the step by step instructions (with screen shots) in our User's Guide for setting up Outlook Express. He assures me he has.

After three phone calls and 20 some minutes on the phone I finally get up from my desk, interrupt my wife's work to use her PC to configure OE. Following our directions I'm done in 3 minutes. I call the guy back, walk him through the procedure as explained in the doc, and before he even tries it he's telling me how he's tried that already and it didn't work. I tell him to try it or figure it out without me, so he clicks Ok then Send/Receive. Of course it works like a charm. All is Ok, right?

No, he has to go on and bitch to me that the docs are too confusing and that it takes up too much of his time supporting customers. I ask him how support is supposed to know the docs are confusing if we never hear it from him or the customers. I also ask him what the f**k he's doing supporting customers when we have a support phone number, and email address, and web chat. "Why don't you tell customers that call you for support to call, oh, I don't know, SUPPORT?" I ask him. Now I'm the asshole.

WTF is up? Why do sales pukes try to do s**t they aren't qualified to do, then get pissed off that they can't do it? Then they get pissed that they spend too much time doing task X even though you have an entire department set up to do task X so they don't have to. The only thing I can come up with is they have a hero complex (upper-level managers seem to have this too). They are so desperate to be a hero they will kill everyone in the process. Any other ideas?

[Braincase]

He probably just finished all the exams for MCSE, without ever pressing a "START" button or opening up "Control Panel".

[Rain Man]

I blame management.

[Fairplay]

Any other ideas?




Ummmm...... are you a gun owner?

[Simplex3]

Ummmm...... are you a gun owner?
I'd just get another one like him. This isn't exactly an isolated incident. If I thought I'd get anything different I'd just start firing.

[Simplex3]

He probably just finished all the exams for MCSE, without ever pressing a "START" button or opening up "Control Panel".
Sadly this guy does hold an MCSE. No s**t. NT 3.51.

[Skip Towne]

I blame management.
I blame Simplex. He won't help out his teammates and he's a smartass.

[Simplex3]

I blame Simplex. He won't help out his teammates and he's a smartass.
Yes, I'm a smartass.

However, had he told the customer to call support when they first called, the customer would have been working on Friday and he would have only been out 30s of his time. It's somehow my fault that it pisses him off when I point out the VERY obvious solution to his self-made problem? He's lucky I didn't spend 10 minutes reaming his ass for f**king up our customer support.

[Phobia]

What you need is a salesman like myself. A guy who can sell it and deliver it.... himself.

Shit, I dunno. The guy sounds like a dipshit. OE isn't very confusing.

[teedubya]

Hi, Im Simplex, and I bitch and cry about everything. Each week, I go through several boxes of Kleenex.

Wah Wah Wah... another whiney bitch post. Shuddap already.

[Nzoner]

Having been in sales for over 20 years I can tell you that our kind prefers not being lumped together.

[headsnap]

because sales sucks, it sucks a whole lot worse than your job(whatever it is that you do..unless you are one that emptys porta-potties. :) ) Without sales though, you wouldn't have a JOB!!! When I sit down and think what the purpose of my job is, when I boil everything down, the purpose of my job is to make the salespersons job easier.

[ChiefsCountry]

Having been in sales for over 20 years I can tell you that our kind prefers not being lumped together.

I agree with that.

[dtebbe]

WTF is up? Why do sales pukes try to do s**t they aren't qualified to do, then get pissed off that they can't do it? Then they get pissed that they spend too much time doing task X even though you have an entire department set up to do task X so they don't have to. The only thing I can come up with is they have a hero complex (upper-level managers seem to have this too). They are so desperate to be a hero they will kill everyone in the process. Any other ideas?

I have worked on both sides of this fence, so I think I am qualified to answer. When I was doing technical sales all too often accounting departments and tech support departments were in fact sales prevention departments. As a sales person you often work for months or even years nurturing along a relationship with a customer, only to have some idiot ruin it in about 5 minutes. And also keep in mind that if your sales people are commissioned (like 99% are) once you piss off that client they have spent all that time developing, thier investment and pay are out the window. When I was doing sales my active customers had one number, mine. I told them no matter what problem they had when, to call me first and I would take care of it. Sometimes this meant conference calls with the tech dept, etc., but I never lost a good customer because some clueless "support" person was having a bad day.

On the other side of things when I was doing support work, this situation came up every day. When it did I remembered back to when I was a sales person, sucked it up, and took thier shit. However, all of the sales people I supported always suggested thier customers call me, because they knew I would take care of them.

Bottom line is, like it or not, if you have sales people, they are the ones that keep your company in business. In not for them, you would not have a job. Suck it up, give service with a smile, then go home and kick your dog. Worked for me for years....

DT

[Bob Dole]

This is just another example of how negatively the Bush administration has impacted this country.

[badgirl]

I worked at Sprint about 8 years ago when caller ID first come out and we went to school for 2 weeks to learn "how to talk" on the phone and make sales. They told us do not take no for an anwser, to talk the customer into the sale. I did not do this, if they said no I said "ok, thank you".

People cussed me out all the time, I got fired for cussing one man back.
End of Job.

I don't like salespeople who try to press me into buying something, they "trained" us how to do that so now I understand telemarketers a little better, but I still just hang up on them.

[crossbow]

Generaly, the quality of service in this country has declined. That goes for the sales and technical people on an equal basis. The reason for it is that companies are reluctant to spend money on training. When I started out in technical support/repair, the companies I worked for sent all of its technicians to classes that tought them how to handle irate customers. It was expensive but worth it. The loss of multi-million dollar accounts was not worth the risk.

Companies not only have stopped spending the "training" money but they have shipped most of the help desk support jobs over seas. End result is that old timers like myself have no new techs to teach the best techniques to. When my generation retires there will be problems because of this.

I can remember when sales people would respond to customer's needs. It is rare now. More often then not, I end up having to hold some type of threat over them to get any action.

Example: Wife unit purchases car. Sales and administration people fail to complete paper work. Temporary license plate expires. After they give the wife a month of double talk I step in. I work for a car manufacturer so I consult the plant supervisor. He tells me how to scare them by telling me which corporate department will punish them. I threaten them using specific names and details of who I will contact. They want to be my best friend and offter to wash the car and give us free oil changes. Paper work is completed THAT DAY. I got what I paid for but I will hate them forever now.

[KC Jones]

Good sales people are hard to come by. Even harder than good engineers IMHO. Too many of them are in it for the quick buck - outright lying to customers, selling something you don't have, etc. However it's hard for me to think of a more important employee. They bring in the cash - and at the end of the day that's what it's all about.

[htismaqe]

Good sales people are hard to come by. Even harder than good engineers IMHO. Too many of them are in it for the quick buck - outright lying to customers, selling something you don't have, etc. However it's hard for me to think of a more important employee. They bring in the cash - and at the end of the day that's what it's all about.

I'm both. And you're right.

[HemiEd]

So let me see if I understand. This sales person is working on Sunday trying to support your customers and you are complaining? :hmmm:

[Simplex3]

because sales sucks, it sucks a whole lot worse than your job(whatever it is that you do..unless you are one that emptys porta-potties. :) ) Without sales though, you wouldn't have a JOB!!! When I sit down and think what the purpose of my job is, when I boil everything down, the purpose of my job is to make the salespersons job easier.
If this was accurate why doesn't he just send them to support or, God forbid, call support himself instead of screwing around with it for three days and getting all bent out of shape?

Everyone in my company understands that without everyone else they wouldn't hvae anything to do. Salespeople also need to understand that without a delivery team they wouldn't have s**t to sell. It's a two way street that not every salesman recognizes. Also, I've worked with salespeople in the past who seem to think it's their job to make everyone else's job harder. The entire company needs to realize they can't do it alone and if they could the company wouldn't exixst, they'd be doing it alone.

[Simplex3]

So let me see if I understand. This sales person is working on Sunday trying to support your customers and you are complaining? :hmmm:
...because, in order of importance:

1. The customer has been waiting since Friday to get the issue solved, support would have cleared it up in 5m without the attitude that was developed over 3 days of frustration.
2. He acted like it was somehow support's fault it was dragging on despite the fact that he never alerted anyone else there even was a problem.

[Simplex3]

Hi, Im Simplex, and I bitch and cry about everything. Each week, I go through several boxes of Kleenex.

Wah Wah Wah... another whiney bitch post. Shuddap already.
Hi, I'm Ali Chi3fs, I feel the need to comment on s**t I claim to have no interrest in rather than just move on.

Wah Wah Wah-ing about someone Wah Wah Wah-ing. Shuddap already.


I'm hoping someone has some advice on how to deal with this type of guy because I have some of this type of guy. If looking for help with a problem is bitching then so be it.

[HemiEd]

...because, in order of importance:

1. The customer has been waiting since Friday to get the issue solved, support would have cleared it up in 5m without the attitude that was developed over 3 days of frustration.
2. He acted like it was somehow support's fault it was dragging on despite the fact that he never alerted anyone else there even was a problem.


Ok, dumbass sales person then. Probably has the customer frustrated by now.

[Simplex3]

Ok, dumbass sales person then. Probably has the customer frustrated by now.
We got it taken care of (finally). I really don't think the guy is a dumbass, but my brain just doesn't work like his so I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get him (and other sales people) to tell their customers "call support". It's not like we staff support with a bunch of dummies, right now I take most of the calls and I created the entire product. The other people that get calls are all developers, they know what's going on.

So far I think the thing that might work the best was the conference call bit. I *might* be able to convince this guy to conference in support and maybe that plan would work with other salespeople in the future. Oh well, the customer is taken care of now and hopefully we don't have any other customers waiting on their salesperson to fix their issues... :banghead:

[HemiEd]

I probably could have given you a better perspective than my dumbass comment. Your last post kind of cleared it up for me, I think. Too much JD this afternoon. One thing that is very difficult for Sales people/customer relations is a hand off. Good Sales people are sensitive to a customer thinking they are passing them off. They want to be involved in the solution to further cement relationships. I think you are on to it with the conference call set up.

[Skip Towne]

You telling the sales guy to tell the customer to call someone else doesn't fly with me. The customer sees that as passing the buck and adds to his frustration. Directv, for one, would never do that. They would either establish a three way call with support and the customer or transfer the call to support themselves. Not tell the customer to call yet someone else.

[headsnap]

Everyone in my company understands that without everyone else they wouldn't hvae anything to do. Salespeople also need to understand that without a delivery team they wouldn't have s**t to sell. It's a two way street that not every salesman recognizes. Also, I've worked with salespeople in the past who seem to think it's their job to make everyone else's job harder. The entire company needs to realize they can't do it alone and if they could the company wouldn't exixst, they'd be doing it alone.

that attitude is going to take you far in life.


Good Luck! :thumb:

[Nzoner]

Good sales people are hard to come by. Even harder than good engineers IMHO. Too many of them are in it for the quick buck - outright lying to customers, selling something you don't have, etc. However it's hard for me to think of a more important employee. They bring in the cash - and at the end of the day that's what it's all about.

I've always tried to go by what sales trainer Tom Hopkins says,"A champion salesperson loves people and uses money,not the other way around."

[Nzoner]

Everyone in my company understands that without everyone else they wouldn't hvae anything to do. Salespeople also need to understand that without a delivery team they wouldn't have s**t to sell. It's a two way street that not every salesman recognizes. Also, I've worked with salespeople in the past who seem to think it's their job to make everyone else's job harder. The entire company needs to realize they can't do it alone and if they could the company wouldn't exixst, they'd be doing it alone.

The wife and I have had this discussion many times in the 15 years of our business(she does graphic design and I handle the sales)and I'll tell you what I tell her.Good salespeople are to the company what the heart is to the body,they pump the blood that makes everything else go.

That's not saying any other parts or departments are less important but to say that without the heart there's no pulse.