Question for those with back problems

[JOhn]

Hey guys I know I've talked to a few of the posters on here about back injuries/problems, but was looking for a little opinion or information from those of you going through or been through this problem.

Little background info: I guess it's been about 7-8 years ago I injured my back at work and ended up with bulging disk at L4-L5. I went through A year of rehab, but never went with the surgery option.

Anyway about 2 years ago my back started flaring up again, mainly due to the daily lifting I do with our daughter (she's handicapped), and having been seeing an ortho since that time.

They have had me on pain meds for the past 2 years, along with multiple steroid dose-packs, spinal injections of cortisone and PT. The injections helped the first couple of times about 1 1/2 years ago, but the latest round in March and about 2 weeks ago havn't really given me any relief beyond a day or so. Mainly I think this has been just from the numbing crap that the also inject around the nerve.

About 3 months ago I was referred to an neurologist, who seems to think it's not a big deal and wants to do only PT and the injections. This in spite of the fact that my latest MRI in Jan showed progressive bulging in the disk and some bone spur formation. Anyway the primary care physician suggested we give this guy a try and if this doesn't work out we could try another Orthopedic Dr and see about surgical options.

The Neuro Dr did say that i'm a prime candidate for disk replacement, though he doesn't recommend it. :shrug: I'm really not sure why, other than I get the feeling from him all I'm seeking is Drugs. :shake: Which is totally stupid to me, as I'm the one who has pushed them to take me of Percocet and try the level 2 Vicoden instead. I have weaned myself down from taking them 4-6 times a day to only taking them at night and maybe in the am if I'm hurting when I get up.

WHat I want to know is, has anyone had the disk replacement surgery?
If so how were the results?

Also have you had trouble with Dr's and pain management?

Are there any other options besides the aforementioned surgery, and the very unaggressive treatment I'm on now?

I'm just extremely frustrated with the so called "experts" right now. The only Dr that seems to really know anything is my primary care Dr, who has known me for 10+ years, and knows that when I say I'm hurting and this treatment is not working believes me. I guess it helps that he went through a similar situation himself.

[Katipan]

My husband had a couple discs removed. The pain was incredible. And because of it, the first couple years of our marriage, I got to honeymoon with Vicodin, Perc, Oxys, all the way up to Nubain and Temgesic. Walk into surgery being honest about the kind of personality you have. Nothing hurts more than back pain. Everything you do, you use your lower back. But fighting pain pills the rest of your life is scary stuff.

Unless you have a strong wife or soft dog.

[theultimatekcchiefsfan]

Have you ever been to a chiropractor? I had a herniated disk and found out that this was something he could work with. I assumed this could only be handled by a medical doctor.

I have had my back go out 3 or 4 times now. When you are 35 years old and have to use a cain to get around, that is a real eye opener.

I still have back problems, but am in far better shape with it now.

I hope you get some good feedback on this topic and you can get some help. Sorry about your back. I know how depressing it can be. Hang in there.

[Skip Towne]

Man was not built to walk upright. Everyone over 40 has back pain but not necessarily back problems. Whatever you do, DO NOT GO TO A CHIROPRACTOR. They are not Doctors and are not allowed to practice in hospitals. I turn 60 next month and have considered surgery until they told me the success rate was 60%. Just live with it if you can and if you can't, consult an MD.

[JOhn]

tried the Chiro before, with no luck at all.
And considering that the disk is bulging and partially herniated I would be afraid to at this point. :shake:

[JOhn]

My husband had a couple discs removed. The pain was incredible. And because of it, the first couple years of our marriage, I got to honeymoon with Vicodin, Perc, Oxys, all the way up to Nubain and Temgesic. Walk into surgery being honest about the kind of personality you have. Nothing hurts more than back pain. Everything you do, you use your lower back. But fighting pain pills the rest of your life is scary stuff.

Unless you have a strong wife or soft dog.
man does that sound familier. :eek:

Thank god I have a very understanding wife, shew knows when I'm hurting and knows it's not personal when I turn into an asshole because of the pain. Fighting the meds is some times as tough as fighting the pain, but without them the pain would be unbearable at times

[Skip Towne]

tried the Chiro before, with no luck at all.
And considering that the disk is bulging and partially herniated I would be afraid to at this point. :shake:
Hey, brother, you of all people on the Planet should know better than go to a chiropractor. Ask any Doctor or RN or probably even an LPN about chiropractors. I once had a buddy who had pneumonia and kept going to that quack until he nearly died. They will try (and fail) to cure anything.

[Manila-Chief]

Hi JOhn,

I’m having back pain now. Helped load a piano on Wed.... But, think mine is kinda like what Skip said ... it’s in my DNA ... my Dad has back pains. I know that a large measure of mine is the overlap on the front side. Seriously, when I lose weight it doesn’t hurt as much. NO!!! that is not the same as what you have ... just saying that I can understand some of your pain.

We have doctor friend who used to run a “Pain Clinic.” The feds shut him down coz he was dispensing too much powerful pain killers ... (imagine that for a “pain doctor”). But, as you said about your doc ... he knew about the pain first hand as he suffered from it. He used to call the orthopedic docs “butchers” for cutting upon peoples backs. But, he had a foot and a half or 2 foot long needles that he stuck up peoples back. Ouch! Just thinking about it.... Now, I don’t think he would include your case into this category of not allowing surgery?

I guess I’m saying ... listen to the neturo doc. Be sure it is your best option before you do the surgery. As a layman surgery sounds like your best option but ... as I’ve said ... my doctorate degree is not the kind that can do you any good.

Hope you get it fixed real soon. I can imagine the pain.

[Manila-Chief]

Man was not built to walk upright. Everyone over 40 has back pain but not necessarily back problems. Whatever you do, DO NOT GO TO A CHIROPRACTOR. They are not Doctors and are not allowed to practice in hospitals. I turn 60 next month and have considered surgery until they told me the success rate was 60%. Just live with it if you can and if you can't, consult an MD.

When I was pastor in Olathe we had a member who just finished med school. I forget the name of his speciality.... but he had his medical license but also trained in chiropractics. Never heard of these doctors until I got to Kansas. If someone need a chiropractor, seems that is the type of doctor one would want to see. From the sound of things your back may be beyond that type of adjustments????

And Skip ... you are too young to be giving advice ... only 60... tis tis!!!

[JOhn]

Guess the biggest problem is I get frustrated with all the "experts". Other than my primary care doc, they all treat you like your either a hypochondriac, drug addict or simply a piece of meat. :mad:

the toughest has been getting them to understand and treat my pain. They all start out with wanting to put you on Percocets and other real strong crap, yet when you get knowledgeable about pain meds from your own research they act is if your some addict. Sorry doc but I would like to know wtf you are prescribing. :hmmm:

Anyway when I insisted on less powerful meds they had a fit. I finally got my primary care doc to take over pain management, and leave the other crap to the experts. At least he knows me, and understands and is actually available to talk to me when I have questions and concerns.

[Skip Towne]

When I was pastor in Olathe we had a member who just finished med school. I forget the name of his speciality.... but he had his medical license but also trained in chiropractics. Never heard of these doctors until I got to Kansas. If someone need a chiropractor, seems that is the type of doctor one would want to see. From the sound of things your back may be beyond that type of adjustments????

And Skip ... you are too young to be giving advice ... only 60... tis tis!!!
With all due respect, sir, chiropractors ARE NOT doctors and are not allowed to ply their trade in ANY hospital. I suggest you check your facts about a combination MD and Chiropractor. That just ain't going to happen.

[Manila-Chief]

You don't have to do the "due respect thing" ... I never said chiropractors are doctors. Never been to one. Do not intent to go to one.

But yes, there are MD's that have at least some training as chiropractors. Dr. Jerry J. did practice in hospitals. He was well trained as a physician and was a MD. Sorry, I forget their title. As I said, I only heard about that field when I was in Olathe. May be a Kansas thing????

[Skip Towne]

Guess the biggest problem is I get frustrated with all the "experts". Other than my primary care doc, they all treat you like your either a hypochondriac, drug addict or simply a piece of meat. :mad:

the toughest has been getting them to understand and treat my pain. They all start out with wanting to put you on Percocets and other real strong crap, yet when you get knowledgeable about pain meds from your own research they act is if your some addict. Sorry doc but I would like to know wtf you are prescribing. :hmmm:

Anyway when I insisted on less powerful meds they had a fit. I finally got my primary care doc to take over pain management, and leave the other crap to the experts. At least he knows me, and understands and is actually available to talk to me when I have questions and concerns.
I understand, JOhn, medicine is an inexact science. My dad was an MD in a small Kansas town. He wouldn't try to treat anything serious or mysterious. He referred them to his friends in Tulsa. He didn't even deliver his own kids even though that was his specialty. There are no "experts" in medicine, they are all "practicing" and they admit it. Since you know a lot about that field you should get a Physicians Desk Reference, also known as a PDR, so you can see for yourself what medication you are getting. A new one probably costs mucho bucks but I'll bet if you ask a few doctors you deal with one of them will fix you up cheap with an older one they have replaced.

[Manila-Chief]

Skip,

I don't hold too high a regard for chiropractors, because during the summers when I was in seminary I worked for American Can Company. We had a fork lift driver on third shift going to chiropractor school. He didn't leave a favorable impression upon me for the profession. I got the idea that if they gave him a degree that all of them are called into question!!!! Word "quack" comes to mind regarding him.

[ExtremeChief]

With all due respect, sir, chiropractors ARE NOT doctors and are not allowed to ply their trade in ANY hospital. I suggest you check your facts about a combination MD and Chiropractor. That just ain't going to happen.


DO's... doctors of osteopathy are use a combination of medical practices and chiropracty. They treat flu, pnuemonia, etc. with medicine just like a MD would, but also help those with back problems with adjustments. I will admit some chiropractors will do everything in their power to get you to return regularly for a treatment. But chiropractors all over the world also help people with back pain. The Chiefs have a chiropractor on staff for their players, an I would guess that most NFL teams do too.

FWIW, doctors of osteopathy DO ply their trade in hospitals.

It sounds like you've had a bad experience with a chiropractor Skip. But many people have had much success with them too. I've had my hip so out of place that I couldn't walk and had a chiropractor help me immediately. I didn't have to go for weekly treatments, and haven't been back for nearly 2 years.

[mikey23545]

JOhn, as a fellow sufferer, let me offer my sympathy. Back pain is right up there with the worst a human can go through.

Right now my back pain has been "dormant" for the last few years (except for the normal everyday "background pain"), but in the past I too have seen that "look" in a doctor's eyes when talking about pain meds. I know how infuriating it is to have the jackass sitting there (not feeling a bit of pain from anything himself) implying that just maybe you want those pain meds for some other reason than your back pain...I, like you, have always tried to limit myself to the bare minimum needed to keep myself functioning, and no more. Luckily, as I said, I haven't had to deal with that problem for a few years now.

So much for sharing war stories...The only advice I have to offer is this. Don't be as afraid of the surgical option as most people seem to be. One of the last times I had an MRI done on my back, I had to spend quite a while in the waiting room, and struck up conversations with what turned out to be several spouses of people who had had back surgery, but were there for other reasons that day. I was surprised to find universal praise for their surgical experiences and results. They all said the same thing, that they had all heard horror stories about such procedures, but had finally been forced into the option by unrelenting pain. All were extremely happy they had finally given it a chance.
Since then, I have always tried to question anyone I can who has had back surgery, and despite the common perception, almost everyone I have found is quite pleased with the results.

I realize this is only anecdotal evidence, and every situation is different...But whatever course you choose, good luck my friend. Hope you find an end to your pain somehow....

[JOhn]

I realize this is only anecdotal evidence, and every situation is different...But whatever course you choose, good luck my friend. Hope you find an end to your pain somehow....

Thanks mikey, and I believe we discussed this once before. I guess I'm just scared of a Scalpel next to my spine. :eek: Well that and my best friend just had surgery 6 months ago, and now the disk has re-herniated. :banghead:

FYI the Orthopedic Doc I was seeing is a little light in the wallet now...

Malpractice costs Dr. $1 Million (http://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2005/05/11/news/news1.txt)


makes me more comfortable in my decision to seek another opinion.

That's the same Dr who did the carpal tunnel surgery on my wifes R arm, TWICE!!! and I still didn't improve. :shake:

[mikey23545]

Yeah, I guess like anything else, it pays to shop around for the right doctor...I admit I am usually the kind of patient who trusts the "expert" explicitly, and just goes along with their suggestion unless it is something really against my better judgement...

Just out of curiosity, how was your friend's back before the re-herniation?...Did he see a lot of improvement?...Did he do something to reinjure himself, or did it just occur spontaneously?

[JOhn]

Yeah, I guess like anything else, it pays to shop around for the right doctor...I admit I am usually the kind of patient who trusts the "expert" explicitly, and just goes along with their suggestion unless it is something really against my better judgement...
Not sure if it's a good thing or not, but having a background in medicine tends to make me very cynical at times. :shrug:

[JOhn]

Just out of curiosity, how was your friend's back before the re-herniation?...Did he see a lot of improvement?...Did he do something to reinjure himself, or did it just occur spontaneously?

He was doing OK, but was only 5 weeks out from the surgery when he re-injured it. He was still in a lot of pain, so it was hard to tell if it had been effective or not. As far as I know he was following the Dr's restrictions religiously, and yet it still re-herniated.

They are waiting another 2-3 months before re-operating, they are trying the injections and PT to see if he can do with out another surgery.

[Bwana]

Damn JOhn, you are going to have to stop picking fights with those Grizzly bears, it's hard on a guys back. :)

[mcan]

Hi JOHn,

Sorry in advance for the long post, but it's a big topic:

My story has been told here before. I have two completely "dry" "black" or "degenerated" discs at L4/L5 and L5/S1. For about six months a couple years ago, the entire posterior side of my leg (hamstring and calf) were unresponsive. I've had every type of back pain from mild (like I have right now) to the most extreme type: feeling like my leg is stuck inside a campfire and I can't pull it out, to the most scary thing (partial paralysis and the inability to control my bladder).

I am chalk full of information and experience about all kinds of back pain and treatments, and how the back works. I'll try to answer some of the questions I've read here briefly, and I'll label it as my opinion if it is. Otherwise, you can bank on this:

The Back and chiropractic care:
One of the reasons many dislike chiropractors is because they have helped to spread the false notion of the "slipped disc." The fact is, a disc can not "slip." It is a soft/liquid core surrounded by a hard/fiborous tissue that acts like a shock abosorber between the vertebre of the spine. The most typical back injuries in America today are muscular in nature, and NOT discogenic. People think "Oops, my disk slipped out of place" and they go see Mr Chiropractor. He "adjusts" them, and after a few days (when the muscle relaxes) they feel better. It has NOTHING to do with the disc. It has a whole lot more to do with people not using muscles for a very long time and then using them improperly.

That said, however, when the pain IS discogenic or related to a damaged disc, chiropractic care CAN be slightly benificial. Not because what they are doing actually puts the disc back in place, but because discs heal VERY slowly. The heat pads, electrolysis pads, and spinal manipulation actually help to get the TINY blood vessals in the outer part of the hard tissue of the disc to engorge a bit more blood than they normally would, and that can help to speed up the natural healing process. Also, the physical act of manipulation releases pockets of air (sound of cracking) that can facilitate a natural endorphin response that can offer minimal relief right there. However, if there is any spinal stenosis (where the bone is impacting the nerve) you run the risk of further damage to the nerve. You notice that I use the word "can" a lot in this part. That's because it's not always going to work.

A bulged disc is the closest thing to a "slipped" disc. This happens when a portion of the hard tissue becomes slightly compacted and "herniates." Rarely, but sometimes, the pressure from that herniation can impact a nerve slightly and cause quite a bit of discomfort (this happens when the herniation is on the posterior side right where the nerve root is). This type of herniation can be very serious and eventually lead to a rather rare side effect called "caudis equina syndrome. More often though, the trauma of the herniation causes swelling of the surrounding tissue and the swelling impacts the nerve. This is when steroid (corizone) shots work well. They reduce the swelling and pain is temporarily restored, however if the herniation is not removed or healed the swelling will return, and you'll have to get more shots. The good news is, there are SEVERAL fairly successfull, minimally invasive surgeries that exist to get rid of herniations. The most common of these is probably the partial laminectomy. Non surgical alternatives include rest, ice, medication, and most importantly (but often not told to you by your doc) is fluid intake. The bulge needs to heal, but there are no veins going to your discs. The core of the disc feeds from the soft underside of the vertebre. The core (when well hydrated) will then heal the exterior of the disc and patch up the "wall." When it gets patched, it heals even harder than it was before it it won't bulge again in that spot. This means drink TONS of water and rest and stretch (after taking meds).

Medications:
There are SOOOO many pain medications out there that it's rediculous. It's also a big business, so depending on what network your doctor is in (read also: which drug company pays him the most) he'll try to push certain medications on you. Do your own research! For mild to severe back pain I recommend taking Ultram (Tramadol) for this reason: The mechanism by which Ultram works is a non-narcotic, pain BLOCKER. The pain is still there, but your brain doesn't know it. So, the body starts letting the swelling go down naturally, and you can stretch again (which helps to facilitate healing in the disc without causing more pain from the stretch. It feels a little strange to be on, but it's not nearly as bad as narcotics (which I hated because they did NOTHING for my leg pain and made me woozy). Also, since it's not a numbing agent, your body will never adapt to it, so there won't be any increasing dosage over time, or dependancy issues. It's also very mild, and doesn't get you high. The last thing, if you have any kind of nerve pain, numbing agents and narcotics don't help much. Tramadol actually makes it disappear. After a couple weeks of feeling like your leg is on fire, you'll appreciate the couple hours of the day when you can get up (pain free) and do some stretching.

Funny story. The first time I tried Ultram was the day of the Chiefs/Browns game where Dwayne Rudd threw his helmet. I couldn't move at the beginning of the game at all from the extreme pain. By the end of the game was up jumping around from excitement, when all the sudden I realized that I COULD get up and jump around for the first time in months. I actually shed a few tears (of excitement) and after Morton Anderson hit his field goal I called my friend Jordan and yelled a bit of GO CHIEFS... Then I went outside and stretched out my hamstrings and low back. When the medication wore off later that day, the sciatica was almost gone from the PT that I did while I was on the drug. Of course it has come back from time to time, but I've kept it managable doing this.

What I have is a torn (ruptured) disc. Two of them actually. When this happens, the liquid inside the disc leaks out and gets all over the nerves surrounding it. And for some strange reason, our damn nerves treat this liquid like battary acid. They hate the stuff, and FREAK out. I actually started twitching uncontrollably for the couple days after my injury because the signals going to my leg were all messed up. To make matters worse, a torn disc hurts all over. The tiny nerves in the disc itself freak out. The nerves being hit freak out, and if there is any stenosis, those nerves freak out too. I was a real wreck. After severl months, the liquid dissapates, and the disc becomes a complete solid (degenerative disc disease). There is a lot of debate about this disease and what exactly causes the pain. Some say once the disc completely dies it shouldn't be painful anymore. Still others say the pain is completely in the disc, based on MRIs of people with lots of pain, but no impacted nerves. The fact is, every case is different and there are so many variables that it's VERY hard to diagnose people with this disease.

Treatments for DDD:
The standard treatment for DDD in America for the last 50 years has been to fuse the two adjacent discs together and get rid of the unhealthy disc. This procedure In My Opinion is the most archaic and inhumane surgery still done in America today, and is a complete and total waste of time and money. In fact, it causes more problems than it fixes. DO NOT DO THIS NO MATTER WHAT. I'm serious, if someone put a gun to my head, I still wouldn't do this surgery. I'd rather be dead. There.
NEXT:
ADR or artificial disc replacement:
There are several types of artificial discs out there. The most common are the ProDisc and the Charite. Both are metal plates with a core that allows movement similar to a natural disc. This surgery has just recently been introduced and approved by the FDA for American use. It has been used in Europe successfully to treat DDD since the mid to late eighties. (Mostly in Germany).

[edit] I should add that this surgery is expensive and VERY invasive. They have to go in through your abs and move all your organs over to the side, and then scrape out your dead disc, and then hammer in their new one, and then patch you back up and wait for the bone and the metal to fuse together. It's very painfull, and if you're not in great shape, recovering from this surgery is often MORE painful than the back pain was. Your doctor wouldn't recommend this to you if your disc is just bulged because your disc is STILL ALIVE! In fact, most hospitals would say you are NOT a candidate if you still have liquid in your disc. Try to save the natural disc first. If it dies, then think about a replacement. [edit]

OK, I guess that's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Any questions you can ask me, or go to the other forum I'm a member of:

www.backpainsupportgroup.com

Good luck to all with back pain, I know how you feel.

[Manila-Chief]

DO's... doctors of osteopathy are use a combination of medical practices and chiropracty. They treat flu, pnuemonia, etc. with medicine just like a MD would, but also help those with back problems with adjustments. I will admit some chiropractors will do everything in their power to get you to return regularly for a treatment. But chiropractors all over the world also help people with back pain. The Chiefs have a chiropractor on staff for their players, an I would guess that most NFL teams do too.

FWIW, doctors of osteopathy DO ply their trade in hospitals.

It sounds like you've had a bad experience with a chiropractor Skip. But many people have had much success with them too. I've had my hip so out of place that I couldn't walk and had a chiropractor help me immediately. I didn't have to go for weekly treatments, and haven't been back for nearly 2 years.

Thanks ... I couldn't remember Osteopathy ... I gues being older than Skip is what causes that.... :-)

The following is a link that tells about their training and using hospitals, etc.

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,724,00.html

Sorry, Skip ... he is not an MD but an DO

[JOhn]

mcan, thanks for a lot of good info.

Believe it or not, that's probably more info on a few things than I EVER got from the Ortho or Neuro doc's. :shake:

I was also diagnosed with DDD, of course I think anyone with and structural damage to the spine gets that label.

I'll check that site out later, looks like a good source of real information, and thanks again.

[Parris]

I had moderate to severe back problems for over 20 years. During this time I went to countless doctors and went through many different treatment plans to try to cure the problem. These included different drugs and different exercise plans. I did not resort to surgery which was recommended by several doctors. Finally I saw a crusty old army physician's assistant who told me my hamstrings were too tight and all I needed to do was stretch them on a regular basis and my back problems would be solved. I, of course, was highly indignant and told him his diagnosis was ridiculous. He challenged me to try his exercise recommendations to see if they would help. Well..over 20 years later I remain pain free (except for those times when I think I am completely cured and don't follow his recommendations). All I do is stretch my hamstrings...both of them....for at least thirty seconds twice each day. Just put your foot on the back of a couch or chair high enough to get your leg parallel to the floor...keep your head up and bend at the waist enough to get a good pull on your hamstring. Do this at night before going to bed and when you get up in the morning...Also anytime you get that familiar feel in your back or leg which signals a potential spasm get your leg up and stretch. It is important that you stretch both legs...anything you do to your right leg you need to do to you left..must keep a balance. I know this sounds llike bull##it and it might not help you but it did wonders for me.

[redfan]

makes me more comfortable in my decision to seek another opinion.



If there's ever a doubt, you should seek a 2nd op. I guess I'm saying you should always get a 2nd op.

As for chiros, I had one help me for awhile, but they are a temp fix at best. They apply techniques that are designed to keep you coming back. Like I said, I had one help my pain for a little while when I first injured myself, but I plateaued fairly quickly and he didn't do much for me after that. Sounds kinda quacky to me.
Best course of action (in my case): Lose some weight, try some PT (abs, back, core muscles).

[redfan]

I had moderate to severe back problems for over 20 years. During this time I went to countless doctors and went through many different treatment plans to try to cure the problem. These included different drugs and different exercise plans. I did not resort to surgery which was recommended by several doctors. Finally I saw a crusty old army physician's assistant who told me my hamstrings were too tight and all I needed to do was stretch them on a regular basis and my back problems would be solved. I, of course, was highly indignant and told him his diagnosis was ridiculous. He challenged me to try his exercise recommendations to see if they would help. Well..over 20 years later I remain pain free (except for those times when I think I am completely cured and don't follow his recommendations). All I do is stretch my hamstrings...both of them....for at least thirty seconds twice each day. Just put your foot on the back of a couch or chair high enough to get your leg parallel to the floor...keep your head up and bend at the waist enough to get a good pull on your hamstring. Do this at night before going to bed and when you get up in the morning...Also anytime you get that familiar feel in your back or leg which signals a potential spasm get your leg up and stretch. It is important that you stretch both legs...anything you do to your right leg you need to do to you left..must keep a balance. I know this sounds llike bull##it and it might not help you but it did wonders for me.

I will second this. My hammies were also too tight.
Psiatic, anyone?

[Otter]

Someone may be able to clarify a little better; MarkM may have had the surgery you're reffering too. That or somthing very similar from the sound of what you're describing.

May want to try and PM him.

[B_Ambuehl]

Whether one is an MD, chiropractor, Osteopath, Manual Therapy expert etc. they are only as good as what they're taught. A startling percentage of Americans upon X-ray will demonstrate herniated disks. I forget the exact number but it's upwards of ~50%. The majority of these individuals DO NOT experience back pain. Of those that do experience back pain, surgery has a very paltry success rate. Why is this?? Mainly because what causes the pain is often not the disks themselves.

As someone mentioned above, pain can be and often is related to muscular problems such as adhesions, restrictions and imbalances, flexibility imbalances, referred inflammation from chemical, food, and beverage intolerances, and even pyschological manifestations. (ever notice how your back hurts more when you feel like shit?) Fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis are prime examples of the last 2.

No singular practitioner will be an expert on all of those. Your best bet initially is to find an experienced soft tissue release therapist such as an Active release practitioner or Rolfer. If you can find an osteopath or an MD with those qualifications that's a bonus but will probably be more expensive. Soft tissue work to the glute and hip regions will immediately benefit and often take care of the majority of back pain. You'll know immediately whether its working and it's cheap so worth a shot. In addition to the soft tissue work learn how to stretch, exercise, lose weight, and strengthen the abs. I have powerlifting acquaintances with broken backs and 40 back injuries combined who are in their 50's who still manage to compete and stay in one piece mainly because of the benefits of the above.

If that's not working then you might consider surgery. The MD will simply look at the x-rays and recommend surgery from the get go. However, there's no need to spend a bunch of money and 6 months recovering from a surgery that's only gonna have a 50% success rate until you've gone through your options.

[JOhn]

Someone may be able to clarify a little better; MarkM may have had the surgery you're reffering too. That or somthing very similar from the sound of what you're describing.

May want to try and PM him.
:thumb:

That's who I was thinking about, we talked several times at lenght about this issue.

Thanks for the reminder.

[T-post Tom]

Stick with a reputable neurosurgeon or an orthopedic sugeon. Get lots of opinions. Many doctors have a hair trigger when it comes to surgery as it lines their pockets. Your type of ailment is beyond a chiro, but their "therapy" may provide some temporary pain relief. They'll do nothing to cure the actual problem. Disk replacement is now viable, but chose a good doctor or you could end up looking at spinal fusion, which will impact you for the rest of your life. You can find quite a bit of good info @ http://www.spine.org/ . Good luck!

[Brock]

I had moderate to severe back problems for over 20 years. During this time I went to countless doctors and went through many different treatment plans to try to cure the problem. These included different drugs and different exercise plans. I did not resort to surgery which was recommended by several doctors. Finally I saw a crusty old army physician's assistant who told me my hamstrings were too tight and all I needed to do was stretch them on a regular basis and my back problems would be solved. I, of course, was highly indignant and told him his diagnosis was ridiculous. He challenged me to try his exercise recommendations to see if they would help. Well..over 20 years later I remain pain free (except for those times when I think I am completely cured and don't follow his recommendations). All I do is stretch my hamstrings...both of them....for at least thirty seconds twice each day..

This is excellent advice. Same thing here.

[mlyonsd]

I have a friend who suffered for years with a bad back that he got when working construction. Several years ago he had the problem disc removed. It was in his lower back, but I couldn't tell you which disk it was for sure. It made all the difference. He's quite a golfer, almost shoots scratch.

[64 Chief]

Joe Montana used a chiropracter for his back with good results. Stretching and sleeping with a pillow underneath your knees can help.

[JOhn]

Been doing all the exercises , including the Hamstring, that the PT gave me. They seem to help a bit, but when the pain and all the other crap, numbness, tingling and cramping, sets in the exercises don't do a lot to help. :banghead:

Kinda like all the suggestions on this thread, a few I will be discussing with the Dr. and PT this week. :thumb:

Keep the ideas coming, along with the stories, I know I'm not the only one here with this problem/concern and hopefully it will help not just me, but the others out there who suffer in silence.

[mikey23545]

BTW JOhn, I have also heard GREAT things about the hamstring stretching...If I wasn't so frigging lazy I would be trying it myself because I know my hammies are incredibly tight, and I obviously have back trouble...