NCAA ponders future of Indian nicknames

[mlyonsd]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2005-05-15-native-americans-ncaa_x.htm

NCAA ponders future of Indian nicknames
By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY

After wrestling with the politically delicate issue for more than four years, the NCAA may be close to rendering a verdict on the use of Native American mascots and nicknames — from Indians and Braves to Redmen and Savages — by 30 of its member universities.

The governing body will conduct the first in a series of summer meetings next month and could decide by August whether it can and should impose a ban on Indian imagery, which critics charge is demeaning and even racist.

Ultimate responsibility falls to the NCAA's highest body, the 17-member Executive Committee, which meets in early August.

Whether the association will or legally must continue to yield to individual campus discretion — as the NCAA does on such matters as minority hiring — is uncertain. Targets range from Florida State (Seminoles) and Utah (Utes) to lower-division institutions with particularly provocative nicknames: Southeastern Oklahoma (Savages) and Carthage, Wis. (Redmen).

"What we can do is educate, get the information out there to you," says Southwestern Athletic Conference Commissioner Robert Vowels, who heads the Minority Interests and Opportunities Committee. "I can't sit here and say right now that we can enforce something or establish a penalty structure."

One possibility, says the NCAA's Corey Jackson, who works closely with the committee, is a lever the association has applied to the issue of flying the Confederate flag or incorporating in their state flags. Two states that do, South Carolina and Mississippi, are barred from hosting association championships.

The NCAA's attention to the mascot issue grew out of the flag flap four years ago.

This isn't the first time the NCAA has undertaken a review of such nicknames. In 2002, the minority interests committee called for "this tradition to be retired." Those schools say the use of the nicknames is in many case a tradition intended to honor Native Americans and their culture.

[Goapics1]

Will the NFL follow suit?

[ptlyon]

www.fightingsioux.com

[Saulbadguy]

Knee jerk reaction..this is stupid.

The more I think of it..eh, I don't know. I'd like to ask some native americans how they feel about it.

[Bwana]

I'd like to ask some native americans how they feel about it.

I have and have yet to have any of them give a rats ass.

Sounds like yet another feel good ban.

[RaiderH8r]

When the Norwegians start bitching about the Vikings moniker I'll pay attention. Until then they can quit their bitching. I don't know of any team that selects their mascot out of a sense of mockery. I may be wrong here, but I think it's out of a sense of honor and reverence. But what do I know? I'm not very PC.

[ArrowheadHawk]

who cares they are just mascots

[Simplex3]

When the Norwegians start bitching about the Vikings moniker I'll pay attention. Until then they can quit their bitching. I don't know of any team that selects their mascot out of a sense of mockery. I may be wrong here, but I think it's out of a sense of honor and reverence. But what do I know? I'm not very PC.

Amen. They should also sanction:

Notre Dame, wouldn't want to piss off the Irish
Purdue, union HVAC guys shouldn't be mocked

Lots of schools are named after lots of things. As far as I'm concerned anyone on the "ban it" side of this argument only speaks to their own bigotry, much like people who feel that blacks must be given a break to succeed. I think they're perfectly capable of succeeding themselves.

[Saulbadguy]

Its a scam to sell more merchandise.

[Rain Man]

Knee jerk reaction..this is stupid.

The more I think of it..eh, I don't know. I'd like to ask some native americans how they feel about it.


I posted the results of some national survey a while back. Native Americans are less likely to be insulted by the names than are white people.


The irony of this is that the best way to kill a conquered culture is to wipe out all references to it and all evidence of its existence. This measure would be a start in extinguishing Native American references.

[jarjar]

I sure as hell don't think I'm mocking Chiefs.
After all these years as a Chiefs fan when I think of a Chief I think of power and wisdom. I think of natural leaders who are strong and steadfast.
I honestly, I think that those images say everything these so called "Politically correct" people need to know.

[Swanman]

Knee jerk reaction..this is stupid.

The more I think of it..eh, I don't know. I'd like to ask some native americans how they feel about it.

A Champaign news station tracked down the remaining members of the Illiniwek tribe to ask them about how they felt about University of Illinois being the Fighting Illini and how they felt about Chief Illiniwek. Not only did it not piss them off, they actually felt honored. With that said, the protests have continued in earnest. In this case, there are very few Native American protestors, they're mostly other minorities thinking they have to speak for the Native Americans or white hippie jerkoffs with nothing better to do.

[Eleazar]

The Kansas City Star already won't print "Redskins", they will only refer to the team as Washington.

[chiefqueen]

For the 1,000,000th time the Chiefs were name after KC former Mayor H. Roe Bartle whose nickname was "Chief".

P.S. this may be a debate topic on Cold Pizza, ATH, and PTI the next couple of days. Let's set them straight (through email) if they start bashing the Chiefs.

[C-Mac]

For the 1,000,000th time the Chiefs were name after KC former Mayor H. Roe Bartle whose nickname was "Chief".

P.S. this may be a debate topic on Cold Pizza, ATH, and PTI the next couple of days. Let's set them straight (through email) if they start bashing the Chiefs.

Thank you!

[Ultra Peanut]

Redskins is pretty bad. Savages, combined with Indian (woo-woo, not dot-dot) symbology, is pretty tacky, at best.

But Chiefs? Braves? Proud Tan Warriors of the Deathwok Clan? Even "Indians," to some degree? What's the point in whinging? There are so many real issues out there, yet some people seem to prefer getting worked up over stuff like this.

[C-Mac]

Redskins is pretty bad. Savages, combined with Indian (woo-woo, not dot-dot) symbology, is pretty tacky, at best.

But Chiefs? Braves? Proud Tan Warriors of the Deathwok Clan? Even "Indians," to some degree? What's the point in whinging? There are so many real issues out there, yet some people seem to prefer getting worked up over stuff like this.

I'm with you and I also think that some sport nicknames are a little on the edge and understand how some could get offended.

For parallel example:

Washington Blackskins with a African american as their mascot. :shake:

[Skip Towne]

For the 1,000,000th time the Chiefs were name after KC former Mayor H. Roe Bartle whose nickname was "Chief".

P.S. this may be a debate topic on Cold Pizza, ATH, and PTI the next couple of days. Let's set them straight (through email) if they start bashing the Chiefs.
Uh.....Bartle was an American Indian.

[C-Mac]

Uh.....Bartle was an American Indian.

So...whats your point?:D

[Skip Towne]

Redskins is pretty bad. Savages, combined with Indian (woo-woo, not dot-dot) symbology, is pretty tacky, at best.

But Chiefs? Braves? Proud Tan Warriors of the Deathwok Clan? Even "Indians," to some degree? What's the point in whinging? There are so many real issues out there, yet some people seem to prefer getting worked up over stuff like this.
By god I'll whing if I want to.

[Ultra Peanut]

Uh.....Bartle was an American Indian.Interesting. So... would "Browns" have been an okay name if Paul Brown had been black?

By god I'll whing if I want to.It's "whinge," actually. Chiefly British, I believe. :D

[C-Mac]

By god I'll whing if I want to.

Skip you really need to work on your whing problem, its starting to annoy some of the fellow posters...you know as a friend and all I can tell you this.

[Valiant]

For the 1,000,000th time the Chiefs were name after KC former Mayor H. Roe Bartle whose nickname was "Chief".

P.S. this may be a debate topic on Cold Pizza, ATH, and PTI the next couple of days. Let's set them straight (through email) if they start bashing the Chiefs.


That may be so, but we still use a arrowhead and old chief as a mascot... I dont have a problem with it but someone being called Chief and having the team resemble a native Chief dont go well together..

[Ultra Peanut]

Yeah... if our logo was a fire helmet, or something, maybe it wouldn't be an issue. ROFL

[Skip Towne]

So...whats your point?:D
Bartle was called "Chief" because he was an Indian. The Chiefs were named in honor of him complete with "Arrowhead" stadium and "Warpaint" for a mascot. Is that Indian enough for you?

[Ultra Peanut]

Do you know why his nickname was Chief?Because Rich Scanlon is one mean son of a bitch!

[chappy]

its the damn liberal professers at the universities i bet ya!! good thing most nfl execs are pretty conservative this kinda stuff has to stop.
next they'll be gettting rid of all the names that could be mistaken for sexual.
WSU Shockers, Jackson Jimmys, Morehead State, F.riends U.niversity of C.entral K. ansas, South Carolina Cocks.

[Rausch]

Pussies.

I'd love it if some tech school called themselves the Drunken Krauts, or Cooked Cabbage demons...

[Mile High Mania]

There's a compromise here, fellas. Just drop the "i" and stick with the Kansas City Chefs. You can have this guy as the face of the team and still keep all the "wolf" related references...

http://expansion.walkerart.org/images/pic_puck.jpg

Also, you can put some red and gold on him ... have him pose with his cutlery and still have some intimidating images. You know, a cleaver in one hand and a fileting knife in the other with cranberry juice dripping from his mouth.

Scary stuff and all sorts of food and beverage options at the stadium.

[C-Mac]

Bartle was called "Chief" because he was an Indian. The Chiefs were named in honor of him complete with "Arrowhead" stadium and "Warpaint" for a mascot. Is that Indian enough for you?

Well.......if its OK with him, it's OK with me.
Actually a little Indian History 101 for me because here all along I had thought that the nickname "chief" was stemmed soley from his political position and the rest came from Kansas Indian history. Heck I lived on live on Kaskaskia street for 20 years, it was just a block north of Piankashaw street.

[whoman69]

I think most institutions use them as a point of reverence, they want their school to emulate the fighting spirit. Where it goes overboard is with things like the tomahawk chop IMO. If some school wants to be called the Highlanders or the fighting Scots then I will be proud. A few years ago the Univ of Iowa had a group called the Scottish Highlanders who played bagpipes and other traditional instruments. Filled me with pride to know my heritage was looked upon so favorably.

[Mile High Mania]

I think most institutions use them as a point of reverence, they want their school to emulate the fighting spirit. Where it goes overboard is with things like the tomahawk chop IMO. If some school wants to be called the Highlanders or the fighting Scots then I will be proud. A few years ago the Univ of Iowa had a group called the Scottish Highlanders who played bagpipes and other traditional instruments. Filled me with pride to know my heritage was looked upon so favorably.

My college had a Scottish background and the BBall team was the Scots. Also had a bagpipe band and highland dancers, pretty cool. Nothing like wearing a kilt, getting blitzed and partying it up at a rival school during a basketball game... and then getting kicked out. :drool:

[Earthling]

I've got some Cherokee blood in my veins and I could give a rats ass what those honkeys want to name a team. Go Chiefs!!

[Ultra Peanut]

I think most institutions use them as a point of reverence, they want their school to emulate the fighting spirit. Where it goes overboard is with things like the tomahawk chop IMO. If some school wants to be called the Highlanders or the fighting Scots then I will be proud. A few years ago the Univ of Iowa had a group called the Scottish Highlanders who played bagpipes and other traditional instruments. Filled me with pride to know my heritage was looked upon so favorably.Arr, me haggis!

[StcChief]

So the Redskins Chiefs game this fall should stir pot again....

Plain Tribal Leaders vs. Chesepeake Bay Indiginous People .