GRETZ: Defense Needs a Cornerstone

[C-Mac]

Dont remember seeing this, hope its not a repost.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/06/03/gretz_defense_needs_a_cornerstone/

GRETZ: Defense Needs a Cornerstone
Jun 03, 2005, 4:05:43 AM by Bob Gretz

Maybe it will be Derrick Johnson. Maybe Ryan Sims will throw off the mantle of mediocrity and be the guy. There’s a chance Kendrell Bell could fill the bill.

No matter who it is, the Chiefs defense needs a cornerstone player. They’ve not had one since the passing of Derrick Thomas. They had a candidate for the job in Donnie Edwards, but he was stupidly dispatched by former defensive coordinator Greg Robinson and is now the defensive cornerstone of divisional rival San Diego.

Right now, the job remains open and until it’s filled, the Chiefs chances of returning to defensive excellence are slim and none.

What is a cornerstone player? Definitions vary, but ultimately they all end with this: he’s the guy the defense counts on. He’s the player that the rest of the defense is built around. He’s the man who can always be counted on to perform. Not only is he physically gifted, but he’s mentally tough as well.

Just as a building is constructed around a cornerstone, so is a defense. That was the case with Thomas, after he was the fourth player selected in the 1989 NFL Draft. Carl Peterson and Marty Schottenheimer grabbed him and made him the foundation for defensive excellence over the next 10 years. They surrounded him with a lot of very talented players, guys that went to the Pro Bowl like Neil Smith, Dan Saleaumua, Dale Carter and James Hasty. They filled in with other free agents and draft choices.

But always there was DT. Just as there was always Bruce Smith in Buffalo or Ronnie Lott in San Francisco, or Howie Long with the Raiders, or … you get the picture.

Generally the cornerstone is a first-round draft pick, usually a high first-round draft choice. Remember the first characteristic of a cornerstone is the ability to perform on the field.

That’s why this coming season is hugely important for Sims. He was the sixth player taken in the 2002 NFL Draft. The Chiefs traded up to get him, because they thought so much of his talents. By now, he should have already shown the ability to be the cornerstone of this defense.

But that hasn’t happened. A holdout and injury ruined his rookie season. Since then, he’s had two seasons of production that belies his draft position. He has five sacks in 37 games, with 127 tackles. In 15 games last season, he was credited with just 30 tackles. There are plays here and there, only flashes really, where he’s looked like the guy who can fill the void. But there is no consistent excellence.

Maybe Johnson will fill the bill. He certainly has a wealth of athletic ability and he’s going to get the chance to show that immediately with the 2005 Chiefs defense. There will be no red-shirt season for this first-round pick. He’s going to play and play a lot.

The Chiefs have used an awful lot of high draft choices on the defensive side of the football over recent seasons. Guys like Eric Downing and Eddie Freeman are gone, having contributed little to the cause. Kawika Mitchell and Julian Battle will get one more chance this year to show they are worthy of their selection on the first day of the NFL Draft. Junior Siavii and Keyaron Fox were added last year and must show this season the skills the Chiefs saw in them.

If both the draft and development process are working correctly, then Downing, Freeman, Mitchell, Battle and Sims should all be fighting to be the cornerstone of this defense. If that was the case, then the Chiefs would have won a lot more games, a lot more games in the playoffs and the defense would not be among the league’s worst.

Until that cornerstone is in place, the Chiefs defense will continue to struggle. Below are the 32 NFL teams ranked in order of their defensive performance last year and one man’s opinion of who stands as the cornerstone of those units. Where there is no name, then that team does not have an obvious cornerstone.

You’ll notice that among the top half of the defenses in the league last year, only one does not have an obvious cornerstone. Among the bottom defenses, nine have no identifiable cornerstone.

[Deberg_1990]

"Maybe Ryan Sims will throw off the mantle of mediocrity and be the guy"


HAHAHAH....Highly doubtful. Sims will never be anything more than serviceable. DJ is our savior hopefully.

[Wallcrawler]

No matter who it is, the Chiefs defense needs a cornerstone player. They’ve not had one since the passing of Derrick Thomas. They had a candidate for the job in Donnie Edwards, but he was stupidly dispatched by former defensive coordinator Greg Robinson and is now the defensive cornerstone of divisional rival San Diego.




Well, looks like Gretz finally got his head either out of his ass, or out of Greg Robinson's crotch and realised what 99.9% of the Chiefs fanbase knew all along, that Robinson was a complete jackass.

Gretz spent so much time defending him, I was beginning to wonder.


I would say though, that the defensive cornerstone of this year's defense will most likely be SS Sammy Knight. The way that he plays, and the attitude that he brings has all the makings of a solid leader on the field. If his play, and demeanor spreads through the entire defense, these guys will be well on their way back to being a good defense again.

[Reaper16]

We can count on Surtain. We should be able to count on Bell. DJ, however, will be that franchise defensive player that we've sorely missed. In a few years, (less?) when people think of the Chiefs, DJ will immediately come to mind.

[milkman]

What was San Diego's defense ranked last year"
And the season before?

[Wallcrawler]

What was San Diego's defense ranked last year"
And the season before?


Are you discounting the fact that Donnie Edwards is a solid player, and in fact the cornerstone of the San Diego defense?

I certainly hope not.

[sd4chiefs]

You just know that the Scanlon groupies are going to be all over this one.

[milkman]

Are you discounting the fact that Donnie Edwards is a solid player, and in fact the cornerstone of the San Diego defense?

I certainly hope not.

I'm afraid I am.

The Chiefs defensive decline started while Donnie was a Chiefs.
The Chargers D didn't improve significantly after he was signed.

Donnie isn't a hard hitter, sure tackler, or great in anyway, except that he has speed.

[Wallcrawler]

I'm afraid I am.

The Chiefs defensive decline started while Donnie was a Chiefs.
The Chargers D didn't improve significantly after he was signed.

Donnie isn't a hard hitter, sure tackler, or great in anyway, except that he has speed.



You are aware that one guy cant do everything himself arent you? Who was on this defense after DT died that was worth a damn besides Edwards?

The decline of the Chiefs happened steadily, with the losses of the players that made the defense great. The departure of Dale Carter and Neil Smith to Denver, who were not adequately replaced, the death of Derrick Thomas, Retirement of Mark Collins and James Hasty.....need I go on?

The great players on defense either left or retired, and were not replaced with players even close to the caliber of the players that had held those positions before.

We were left with Donnie Edwards as pretty much the best guy on our defense. But since he cant be everywhere, I guess that makes him suck in your book.

Since he's left KC, he's been a pro bowler and I dont know why, but everytime I see Donnie Edwards, he seems to be making a big interception for his team.

I guess the league is sending players who arent good at their position to the pro bowl now, is that it?

Heh.

Amusing.

150 tackles, a sack, 5 picks and a TD is a far cry from what our current linebackers have done in his absence.

Even in their horrendous 4-12 year he stood out with 161 tackles, half a sack, and 2 picks.

I dont know about you, but I would have liked to have Donnie Edwards around during the past 4 seasons to help out our defense.

How you have it in your mind that Donnie Edwards is NOT worthy of being the cornerstone of a defense, and not a great player is beyond me.

What does it take, O wise one?

[Red Dawg]

Scanlon will be KICK'IN AZZ but BOMMER will be the corner stone.

[J Diddy]

What does it take, O wise one?

I have the answer O sarcastic one.

The ability to hit someone and make them go down, preferably not 15 yards down the field with your ass clinging on for dear life.

Donnie is an adequate linebacker, I could be wrong but I think he only got voted to the probowl the year before last as an alternate.


Hell Woods made the Probowl 2 years and now he's probably out of his starting job.

Just cause he's your homer pick, don't make him god.

[keg in kc]

Jamal Williams is the cornerstone of that defense.

Donnie Edwards is a complementary player. He's as good as the people around him. If he's well-enough protected, he's capable. Which makes him like virtually any other NFL player. He is not a game-changer, however, at least not in my estimation. Not like the greats.

It's a moot point, in any case. He's 32 years old. Any cornerstone here, if we happen to find one, is going to be someone younger, someone capable of making plays for the better part of the next decade. We did the first thing necessary to find a defensive superstar by (on paper) drastically upgrading the overall talent of the unit. Even the greatest don't do it completely on their own. For the sake of argument, say we'd kept Donnie Edwards - does anyone really expect the product on the field would have been meaningfully improved if the remainder of the roster was left the same? Probably not. I'd imagine we'd have found ourselves right where we are, albeit with one more LB on the depth chart.

In any case, it doesn't matter. We are where we are, and we can't go back and change the past. We've upgraded the talent, now it's time for someone to step up and lead. Hopefully more than just one.

[Rausch]

I have the answer O sarcastic one.

The ability to hit someone and make them go down, preferably not 15 yards down the field with your ass clinging on for dear life.


This has been a while now, but back when, KC played the Steelers every year at Arrowhead.

The only reason Bettis is still playing is because of Donnie Edwards. Jerome made a highlight reel out of dragging Donnie around KC...So did Terrel Davis...And Fred Taylor...and Deuce Staley...

[Wallcrawler]

I
Just cause he's your homer pick, don't make him god.


Never said he was my homer pick, nor that he was God, but thanks for putting words in my mouth anyway.

Donnie Edwards is a solid linebacker. The number of tackles and interceptions he puts up is a testament to that fact.

The original point made was that Donnie Edwards is a solid player, and the cornerstone of the Charger Defense.

Then came the "Oh yeah? What's the Charger defense ranked?" Implying that Edwards isnt any good simply because the Chargers arent ranked in the top defenses, because Edwards couldnt do it all himself.

Whatever though. If 150 tackles, a sack, 5 interceptions and a TD isnt enough to be considered a solid player by your standards, Im not really sure what it takes. Id love to see a statline that you think would be adequate to deem him as a solid linebacker.

Last I checked, those are pretty good numbers.

[Pants]

The number of tackles ais meaningless if every takle takes 10 yards to finally happen. That said, Donnie would've still been the best we had the last couple of years had we kept him.

[J Diddy]

Never said he was my homer pick, nor that he was God, but thanks for putting words in my mouth anyway.

Donnie Edwards is a solid linebacker. The number of tackles and interceptions he puts up is a testament to that fact.

The original point made was that Donnie Edwards is a solid player, and the cornerstone of the Charger Defense.

Then came the "Oh yeah? What's the Charger defense ranked?" Implying that Edwards isnt any good simply because the Chargers arent ranked in the top defenses, because Edwards couldnt do it all himself.

Whatever though. If 150 tackles, a sack, 5 interceptions and a TD isnt enough to be considered a solid player by your standards, Im not really sure what it takes. Id love to see a statline that you think would be adequate to deem him as a solid linebacker.

Last I checked, those are pretty good numbers.

Numbers are numbers. When has he made a play at the end of the game. When has he ever taken over a game. The man disappears when the game is on the line, everytime.

I would think that someone who you would deem "cornerstone" would be someone who could make that crucial stop or a big play when you needed it.

[HemiEd]

How you have it in your mind that Donnie Edwards is NOT worthy of being the cornerstone of a defense, and not a great player is beyond me.

Oh how the grass is greener. He is no cornerstone. He has turned into a decent player though.

[wildcat09]

Oh how the grass is greener. He is no cornerstone. He has turned into a decent player though.

he may be a decent player but he is no "cornerstone." i would not include him along with ronnie lott or bruce smith type players.

[Gaz]

I am encouraged that we have a few candidates for the position.

The best scenario would be if Sims took over.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would not mind having a couple of cornerstones.

[Gaz]

On the Donnie Edwards issue: he is a solid Linebacker and definitely an important cog in the Chargers machine, but he ain’t no Howie Long.

xoxo~
Gaz
Giving Donnie his due, but being real about it.

[htismaqe]

Jammal Williams is the cornerstone of the Chargers defense. Shipping Donnie Edwards to San Diego was a dumb move in retrospect, but anybody that thinks he's a great LB is kidding themselves. I'll NEVER miss watching him get dragged around by Deuce Staley.

I think Sammy Knight will be the guy that takes charge of this defense, but he isn't young enough to step in and be the cornerstone. Maybe he can rub off on Greg Wesley.

[bricks]

If we are looking for "cornerstone", I'd say place that bet on Patrick Surtain right now...Arguably the best player on the Chiefs defense. He can still play for a good 5, 6 years. I can also mention a few other candidates, I like Bell, and Sammy Knight.

[bricks]

Jammal Williams is the cornerstone of the Chargers defense. Shipping Donnie Edwards to San Diego was a dumb move in retrospect, but anybody that thinks he's a great LB is kidding themselves. I'll NEVER miss watching him get dragged around by Deuce Staley.

I think Sammy Knight will be the guy that takes charge of this defense, but he isn't young enough to step in and be the cornerstone. Maybe he can rub off on Greg Wesley.

I have to agree with you. Edwards wasn't a great linebacker. I must admit he had great speed, and got to the ball carrier. There were times though when he'd get there, and would get totally plowed and ran over. A lot of people have to remember too, that Donnie is an undersized LBer. And those kinda things happen to undersized LBers. Especially if they are going up against the big physical RB's...i.e., Bettis, Wheatly.

[bricks]

I have the answer O sarcastic one.

The ability to hit someone and make them go down, preferably not 15 yards down the field with your ass clinging on for dear life.

Donnie is an adequate linebacker, I could be wrong but I think he only got voted to the probowl the year before last as an alternate.


Hell Woods made the Probowl 2 years and now he's probably out of his starting job.

Just cause he's your homer pick, don't make him god.

your right Donnie made the probowl as an alternate selection.

[bricks]

This has been a while now, but back when, KC played the Steelers every year at Arrowhead.

The only reason Bettis is still playing is because of Donnie Edwards. Jerome made a highlight reel out of dragging Donnie around KC...So did Terrel Davis...And Fred Taylor...and Deuce Staley...

I'll also add in Tyrone Wheatly to that mix. I'll never forget that incident. Remember when Wheatly dragged Donnie Edwards 15 yards down the field for a TD? I threw my convertor on the floor after witnessing that one.

[jspchief]

I don't know about "conerstone", but Edwards is an excellent LB IMO. He's always around the ball, and is probably one of the best coverage LBs in the game right now.

[wasi]

Shipping Donnie Edwards to San Diego was a dumb move in retrospect,

If i remember correctly it was salary cap move in DV/grob's first year with the chiefs. I do remember DV lamenting at the end of the season about the move, but you gotta think that some of that money they freed up was used to assemble the awesome offense that the chiefs have! I'd rather have players like Roaf, Green and Kennison over Edwards anyday.

[HC_Chief]

I don't know about "conerstone", but Edwards is an excellent LB IMO. He's always around the ball, and is probably one of the best coverage LBs in the game right now.

He is definitely excellent in coverage. He really is better suited to SS than OLB IMO.

[Chief Faithful]

I have to agree with you. Edwards wasn't a great linebacker. I must admit he had great speed, and got to the ball carrier. There were times though when he'd get there, and would get totally plowed and ran over. A lot of people have to remember too, that Donnie is an undersized LBer. And those kinda things happen to undersized LBers. Especially if they are going up against the big physical RB's...i.e., Bettis, Wheatly.

Edwards speed was so good each play he usually was the first defender being carried by the ball carrier. A slower player could only have gotten there in time to jump on top of the pile.

[htismaqe]

If i remember correctly it was salary cap move in DV/grob's first year with the chiefs. I do remember DV lamenting at the end of the season about the move, but you gotta think that some of that money they freed up was used to assemble the awesome offense that the chiefs have! I'd rather have players like Roaf, Green and Kennison over Edwards anyday.

It wasn't a pure salary cap move. The Chiefs were concerned about paying him what he was reportedly wanting, that much is true. But they decided to let him go when Greg Robinson told them he didn't fit the defensive scheme.

[Coogs]

I am encouraged that we have a few candidates for the position.

The best scenario would be if Sims took over.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would not mind having a couple of cornerstones.


Got to agree with that. If Sims, and Saivii, live up to their draft status and make the middle of the line rock solid, this whole defense could really be awesome.

[alpha_omega]

Surtain = Cornerstone

[milkman]

Never said he was my homer pick, nor that he was God, but thanks for putting words in my mouth anyway.

Donnie Edwards is a solid linebacker. The number of tackles and interceptions he puts up is a testament to that fact.

The original point made was that Donnie Edwards is a solid player, and the cornerstone of the Charger Defense.

Then came the "Oh yeah? What's the Charger defense ranked?" Implying that Edwards isnt any good simply because the Chargers arent ranked in the top defenses, because Edwards couldnt do it all himself.

Whatever though. If 150 tackles, a sack, 5 interceptions and a TD isnt enough to be considered a solid player by your standards, Im not really sure what it takes. Id love to see a statline that you think would be adequate to deem him as a solid linebacker.

Last I checked, those are pretty good numbers.

I never said he wasn't solid.
I said he wasn't great.

He's a solid player, albeit one that can be plowed over and dragged by ballcarriers, as has been pointed out by J Diddy, Parker, and others.

The point is, is that in no way would I consider Donnie a cornerstone player.
I would like to have retained him, but he's not a guy I'm going to build a defense around.

[Dayze]

For some reason, I thought I remeber hearing Sims had something ridiculous like only 13 tackles last year.
I guess I was wrong.

Still...for a 6th pick overall, and moving up to do so, he has definately fallen extremely short. "What could have been" had we drafted Freeney instead.
:mad:

[whoman69]

How dare Gretz put down Greg Robinson in this manner. Its classless and he should seek help. :shake:

[Wallcrawler]

For some reason, I thought I remeber hearing Sims had something ridiculous like only 13 tackles last year.
I guess I was wrong.

:mad:


15 tackles, 2 sacks in 16 starts to be exact.

Thats like ONE good game from Ray Lewis, but it's one of our first round, top ten draft choice's statlines.

If Sims could just improve to mediocrity, I would be impressed. He averaged LESS than one tackle per game last season. He certainly hasnt shown that he was worth being drafted that high.

[C-Mac]

I never said he wasn't solid.
I said he wasn't great.

He's a solid player, albeit one that can be plowed over and dragged by ballcarriers, as has been pointed out by J Diddy, Parker, and others.

The point is, is that in no way would I consider Donnie a cornerstone player.
I would like to have retained him, but he's not a guy I'm going to build a defense around.

A Cornerstone is a leader first and a player second.
Donnie Edwards could qualify as a cornerstone on the rebuilt Chargers team but could not on the existing Ravens team.

[bricks]

For some reason, I thought I remeber hearing Sims had something ridiculous like only 13 tackles last year.
I guess I was wrong.

Still...for a 6th pick overall, and moving up to do so, he has definately fallen extremely short. "What could have been" had we drafted Freeney instead.
:mad:

Freeney...we coulda had Roy Williams instead.

[buddha]

Ray Lewis is the cornerstone of his defense.

Donnie Edwards is a good linebacker, but I wouldn't call him the cornerstone of anything. Let's not exagerate his abilities.

[C-Mac]

Ray Lewis is the cornerstone of his defense.

Donnie Edwards is a good linebacker, but I wouldn't call him the cornerstone of anything. Let's not exagerate his abilities.

Talent is relevent to the team.
Technically I could be a cornerstone on the worlds worse defense. Donnie is a very good leader and a very good linebacker, he just isn't great.