D-Day

[Skip Towne]

On June 6, 1944, the Allies landed 176,000 troops on Normandy. Can you imagine what a horrifying experience that must have been? My thanks go to those brave men.

[seclark]

in...many thanks.
sec

[RealSNR]

I remember my grandfather and his brother on this day. My grandfather passed two years ago, and his brother didn't get out of Europe alive. Thanks to those who gave their lives to protect America from despotism.

[Swanman]

If you'd like to learn a ton about D-Day and all that went into it, Stephen Ambrose's book "D-Day" is great. I was skeptical going in because I didn't think a 600 page book about 1 day could be interesting throughout, but it was. He goes into all the deception operations the Allies went through to make the Germans think we were attacking somewhere else.

Also, he describes, in detail, the horror of Omaha Beach. Every square inch of that beach was covered by pre-sighted artillery AND criss-crossing machine gun fire.

One other interesting note about D-Day is the battleships pulled up parallel to the shore and took out a lot of the pillboxes to help the infantry. That was definitely not in the plan, but when the Navy saw the beating the infantry was taking, they improvised.

[Marada]

If you'd like to learn a ton about D-Day and all that went into it, Stephen Ambrose's book "D-Day" is great. I was skeptical going in because I didn't think a 600 page book about 1 day could be interesting throughout, but it was. He goes into all the deception operations the Allies went through to make the Germans think we were attacking somewhere else.

Also, he describes, in detail, the horror of Omaha Beach. Every square inch of that beach was covered by pre-sighted artillery AND criss-crossing machine gun fire.

One other interesting note about D-Day is the battleships pulled up parallel to the shore and took out a lot of the pillboxes to help the infantry. That was definitely not in the plan, but when the Navy saw the beating the infantry was taking, they improvised.

And talk about guts. They expected up to a 70 percent casualty rate yet went ahead with it. It turned out the rate was more like 28 percent. But just shows the williness of the greatist generation to make the sacrifices needed to insure freedom. Not like now where half the population wants to hide their heads in the sand and ignore the threat of terrorism.

[beavis]

Thanks for reminding me. Was watching something on the history channel last night about it. Hard to imagine the sheer terror those guys went through.

Thanks to all of them, especially the ones that never left.

[beavis]

One other interesting note about D-Day is the battleships pulled up parallel to the shore and took out a lot of the pillboxes to help the infantry. That was definitely not in the plan, but when the Navy saw the beating the infantry was taking, they improvised.
Saw that on tv last night. One of the guys said they got so close to shore they were practically dragging the bottom.

[Radar Chief]

If you'd like to learn a ton about D-Day and all that went into it, Stephen Ambrose's book "D-Day" is great. I was skeptical going in because I didn't think a 600 page book about 1 day could be interesting throughout, but it was. He goes into all the deception operations the Allies went through to make the Germans think we were attacking somewhere else.

Also, he describes, in detail, the horror of Omaha Beach. Every square inch of that beach was covered by pre-sighted artillery AND criss-crossing machine gun fire.

One other interesting note about D-Day is the battleships pulled up parallel to the shore and took out a lot of the pillboxes to help the infantry. That was definitely not in the plan, but when the Navy saw the beating the infantry was taking, they improvised.

I didn’t know that, interesting.

[Iowanian]

I ended up watching Saving Pvt Ryan last night after setting up the home theater in the manroom.

My grandad was a medic in the 101, and was on Normandy-Berlin occupation. thanks old timers.

[alpha_omega]

God Bless America!

[Donger]

I'm sure that every Frenchman today is reflecting on the events that took place 61 years ago today, and thanking the United States of America for liberating their shitty little country for the second time in the 20th century.

[stumppy]

I'm sure that every Frenchman today is reflecting on the events that took place 61 years ago today, and thanking the United States of America for liberating their shitty little country for the second time in the 20th century.


I doubt that. Some of the old timers might be but 90% of them spineless bastards could give a shit less.

[Rain Man]

I'm sure that every Frenchman today is reflecting on the events that took place 61 years ago today, and thanking the United States of America for liberating their shitty little country for the second time in the 20th century.

Yep. With the international mail, though, I figure it'll take a week or so for the thank-you cards to start arriving.

[Loki]

I'm sure that every Frenchman today is reflecting on the events that took place 61 years ago today, and thanking the United States of America for liberating their shitty little country for the second time in the 20th century.

and, of course, thanking the british and canadians at the same time.

[Loki]

Yep. With the international mail, though, I figure it'll take a week or so for the thank-you cards to start arriving.

heh...

[stumppy]

Yep. With the international mail, though, I figure it'll take a week or so for the thank-you cards to start arriving.


I'm sure veterans all over the country are holding their breath.

Thank God and America for the greatest generation. I doubt we'll ever see another time when the people in this country have enough character and backbone to act as one and just do the right thing.

[chagrin]

We'd have helped the Germans if they would have invaded France and France only

[Amnorix]

I'm sure that every Frenchman today is reflecting on the events that took place 61 years ago today, and thanking the United States of America for liberating their shitty little country for the second time in the 20th century.

Just as we thank them every July 4th, for our Independence could not have been gained with them.


Right? Right?

(echo)

[Donger]

Just as we thank them every July 4th, for our Independence could not have been gained with them.


Right? Right?

(echo)

Paid back in full = World War I

[Amnorix]

I'm sure veterans all over the country are holding their breath.

Thank God and America for the greatest generation. I doubt we'll ever see another time when the people in this country have enough character and backbone to act as one and just do the right thing.

While I give great credit to the men who fought and for our country, throughout all of history and in particular on this day, your comments are off-base.

We only "act[ed] as one and just [did] the right thing" AFTER we were brought into the war by the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Before that, most of America was firmly in isolationist mode, and FDR had all he could do to help the British without getting too far ahead of American opinion.

[Amnorix]

We'd have helped the Germans if they would have invaded France and France only

If meant as a joke, okay.

If remotely meant to be serious -- don't be absurd.

[Rain Man]

Just as we thank them every July 4th, for our Independence could not have been gained with them.


Right? Right?

(echo)


Oh. That reminds me. I need to get my thank-you card in the mail this week, so it'll get there by the 4th.

[Amnorix]

Paid back in full = World War I

Perhaps so. Of course, it was primarily French and British intransigence and the demand for reparations at Versailles which caused Germany's rebirth as the Third Reich.

And French (and British) weakness that allowed Germany to rearm.

And French military stupidity which caused their sudden and complete collapse in 1940.

So I certainly don't feel we owe the French anything. Nor do I feel that the French are anything but, well, French, which means goddamn annoying at times.

But the attitude of some here towards them is absurd. You act like the difference between France and Hussein's Iraq is that the former has WMD while the latter was merely trying to acquire them. Give me a break.

[Iowanian]

I don't recall the French Helping in our war vs the British until the tide turned and the Americans were winning.........there was alot of time when the French help was needed, yet somehow delayed.

The ONLY reason they helped, was to cause trouble for the British.

..and then there was that whole French and Indian war thing...

[Sam]

A little more history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Normandy

The Battle of Normandy was fought in 1944 between the German forces occupying Western Europe and the invading Allied forces. Sixty years later, the Normandy invasion, codenamed Operation Overlord, remains the largest sea borne invasion in history, involving almost three million troops crossing the English Channel from England to Normandy in occupied France.

Twelve Allied nations provided units that participated in the invasion: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The Normandy invasion began with overnight paratrooper and glider landings, massive air and naval bombardments, and an early-morning amphibious assault on June 6, "D-day". The battle for Normandy continued for more than two months, with campaigns to establish, expand, and eventually break out of the Allied beachheads. It concluded with the liberation of Paris and the fall of the Chambois pocket.

[Donger]

Perhaps so. Of course, it was primarily French and British intransigence and the demand for reparations at Versailles which caused Germany's rebirth as the Third Reich.

And French (and British) weakness that allowed Germany to rearm.

And French military stupidity which caused their sudden and complete collapse in 1940.

So I certainly don't feel we owe the French anything. Nor do I feel that the French are anything but, well, French, which means goddamn annoying at times.

But the attitude of some here towards them is absurd. You act like the difference between France and Hussein's Iraq is that the former has WMD while the latter was merely trying to acquire them. Give me a break.

I'm not sure what Iraq has to do with the overall lack of thanks that the French give for liberating their shitty little country (again), but okay.

[BigRedChief]

On June 6, 1944, the Allies landed 176,000 troops on Normandy. Can you imagine what a horrifying experience that must have been? My thanks go to those brave men.
They were truly are greatest generations since the founding fathers. We owe them everything.:clap:

[Amnorix]

I don't recall the French Helping in our war vs the British until the tide turned and the Americans were winning.........there was alot of time when the French help was needed, yet somehow delayed.

The ONLY reason they helped, was to cause trouble for the British.

..and then there was that whole French and Indian war thing...

And the French and British fought the Germans for YEARS during BOTH World War I and World War II while we sat on our behinds.

And, just as was true in WWI and WWII, the Revolution was literally not "winnable" without the French fleet.

And of course they did it because it was in their own political interests, rather than out of goodwill. OUR goodwill during the late 1930s and 1940-'41 did nothing but get the British 50 destroyers and Lend-Lease. Although that was alot, it hardly involved Americans dying on foreign land or anything.

It took us even longer to get involved in the meatgrinder that was World War I, mainly because it's not entirely clear that either side was "evil" in that war.

[Amnorix]

I'm not sure what Iraq has to do with the overall lack of thanks that the French give for liberating their shitty little country (again), but okay.

What do you want, in terms of thanks? You want another England, I guess, which has decided, for various reasons, to hitch it's star to America and play the role of Little Brother to our Big Brother.

Sorry, the French are French. They do not share our history, our language or our culture. They are also arrogant, as a result of having been the foremost country in Europe for a goodly while. An era that is now several hundred years dead.

But don't act like they owe us gratitude for the rest of time. If that were true, we would've been right there with them, side by side, in 1914 rather than 1917, or September 1939, rather than December of '41.

[Donger]

What do you want, in terms of thanks? You want another England, I guess, which has decided, for various reasons, to hitch it's star to America and play the role of Little Brother to our Big Brother.

Sorry, the French are French. They do not share our history, our language or our culture. They are also arrogant, as a result of having been the foremost country in Europe for a goodly while. An era that is now several hundred years dead.

But don't act like they owe us gratitude for the rest of time. If that were true, we would've been right there with them, side by side, in 1914 rather than 1917, or September 1939, rather than December of '41.

Heh. Perhaps recognition that sans our assistance (twice), they would be voicing that non-deserved arrogance with a distinctly different accent.

My issue with the French has always been that said arrogance. As you state, it has not been deserved for hundreds of years.

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."

[Donger]

What do you want, in terms of thanks? You want another England, I guess, which has decided, for various reasons, to hitch it's star to America and play the role of Little Brother to our Big Brother.

Sure. That's a good start.

But don't act like they owe us gratitude for the rest of time.

They owe us gratitude every morning they wake up not under German occupation.

I understand your objections and the fact that the French were quite helpful during the Revolution, but I suppose it's the fact that I must have missed the US graveyards filled with brave Frenchmen that helped liberate our country that gets under my skin, especially on this date.

[Amnorix]

My specific compliments on D-Day:

1. First and foremost, to all those who fought and died in the biggest amphibious operation ever conducted.

2. To Dwight David Eisenhower, who shouldered a tremendous burden in overseeing the operation, and showed tremendous courage in ordering the attack launched during a very small window of opportunity where the weather was going to be acceptable. (the invasion was originally set for the 5th, but the weather made it impossible, and the portions of the fleet that had sailed had to turn back).

3. To General (later Field Marshal) Sir Bernard Law Montgomery, who noted several very serious deficiencies in the plan (originally 3 divisions on 20'ish miles of beach) and expanded it to 5 divisions. Without his strident insistence on this matter, the Germans may have been able to contain and repulse the invasion.

4. To the Big Red One. The veteran U.S. division which landed at Omaha Beach was perhaps the ONLY U.S. division that could have survived the furious German counterassault. Unknown to U.S. planners, an experienced German combat division, transferred from the Russian front, had moved into the area of Omaha Beach. The German defense was extremely tenacious. Very few divisions in the world would not have been pushed back into the sea.

5. General Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. (son of the former President). A one star general who helped save the situation on Utah beach, which was a bit of a cluster-f**k, as the men landed at the wrong place. The oldest D-Day invader, he insisted on leading his men from the front although he was a son of a President and therefore military brass tried to keep him back. He later died of a heart attack.

6. To the airborne and glider troopers who performed invaluable services at tremendous personal risk, suffering unbelievable hardships as nearly every plan went completely awry, and yet persevered to see their missions through.

[Amnorix]

Sure. That's a good start.

Get over yourself. You act like an insecure parent who needs their child's undying devotion, adulation and worship even when they enter adulthood.

They owe us gratitude every morning they wake up not under German occupation.

I understand your objections and the fact that the French were quite helpful during the Revolution, but I suppose it's the fact that I must have missed the US graveyards filled with brave Frenchmen that helped liberate our country that gets under my skin, especially on this date.

Please. The US entered the war because we were attacked, not because we nobly decided to self-sacrifice to save the French. If France wasn't liberated by us, it likely would have been liberated by the Russians, which also would not have been in our national interests (to say the least).

It's 64 years ago and several generations ago now. We did what we had to do in OUR own best interests. It also helped the French, luckily for them. That's it, end of story.

[Donger]

My specific compliments on D-Day:

1. First and foremost, to all those who fought and died in the biggest amphibious operation ever conducted.

2. To Dwight David Eisenhower, who shouldered a tremendous burden in overseeing the operation, and showed tremendous courage in ordering the attack launched during a very small window of opportunity where the weather was going to be acceptable. (the invasion was originally set for the 5th, but the weather made it impossible, and the portions of the fleet that had sailed had to turn back).

3. To General (later Field Marshal) Sir Bernard Law Montgomery, who noted several very serious deficiencies in the plan (originally 3 divisions on 20'ish miles of beach) and expanded it to 5 divisions. Without his strident insistence on this matter, the Germans may have been able to contain and repulse the invasion.

4. To the Big Red One. The veteran U.S. division which landed at Omaha Beach was perhaps the ONLY U.S. division that could have survived the furious German counterassault. Unknown to U.S. planners, an experienced German combat division, transferred from the Russian front, had moved into the area of Omaha Beach. The German defense was extremely tenacious. Very few divisions in the world would not have been pushed back into the sea.

5. General Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. (son of the former President). A one star general who helped save the situation on Utah beach, which was a bit of a cluster-f**k, as the men landed at the wrong place. The oldest D-Day invader, he insisted on leading his men from the front although he was a son of a President and therefore military brass tried to keep him back. He later died of a heart attack.

6. To the airborne and glider troopers who performed invaluable services at tremendous personal risk, suffering unbelievable hardships as nearly every plan went completely awry, and yet persevered to see their missions through.

Nice synopsis Amno. I'd add:

1. Thanks to Hitler for leaving orders not to be disturbed from his sleep and swallowing the bait of Patton's fake army in the first place.

2. To the allied air forces. Having total air superiority during an an amphibious landing is nice.

[Skip Towne]

I just learned the other day that Lend-Lease was born as a way for FDR to give aid to Britain without the consent of Congress. He could not sell or give them arms or machines but could lend-lease them.

[Amnorix]

I just learned the other day that Lend-Lease was born as a way for FDR to give aid to Britain without the consent of Congress. He could not sell or give them arms or machines but could lend-lease them.

FDR put himself out on several far-out limbs to help the British.

We also declared the western half of the Atlantic to be a neutral zone, and American warships actively hunted German U-Boats before we entered the war. Frankly, we committed acts of war against Germany before Pearl Harbor, and Hitler was surprisingly restrained in ordering his U-Boat commander (Doenitz) to give us NO provocation for entering the war.

Not that I object to FDR's actions, of course. In light of America's isolationisms, he was doing all he could to help the British.

[Donger]

Get over yourself. You act like an insecure parent who needs their child's undying devotion, adulation and worship even when they enter adulthood.

Ha. We simply disagree Amnorix. England managed to avoid having their country invaded and occupied. Did we help them? Sure. But not to the extent we did the French, particularly in terms of loss of lives. Yet, the Brits are considerably more thankful than the French. I know; I used to be one.



Please. The US entered the war because we were attacked, not because we nobly decided to self-sacrifice to save the French. If France wasn't liberated by us, it likely would have been liberated by the Russians, which also would not have been in our national interests (to say the least).

It's 64 years ago and several generations ago now. We did what we had to do in OUR own best interests. It also helped the French, luckily for them. That's it, end of story.

I sisn't say we saved the French (twice) for any noble reason, just that we did (twice).

[Amnorix]

1. Thanks to Hitler for leaving orders not to be disturbed from his sleep and swallowing the bait of Patton's fake army in the first place.


Amazing to me is that the deception worked for WEEKS after D-Day.

[Rain Man]

FDR put himself out on several far-out limbs to help the British.

We also declared the western half of the Atlantic to be a neutral zone, and American warships actively hunted German U-Boats before we entered the war. Frankly, we committed acts of war against Germany before Pearl Harbor, and Hitler was surprisingly restrained in ordering his U-Boat commander (Doenitz) to give us NO provocation for entering the war.

Not that I object to FDR's actions, of course. In light of America's isolationisms, he was doing all he could to help the British.


Mmmm...doenitz...

[Amnorix]

Ha. We simply disagree Amnorix. England managed to avoid having their country invaded and occupied. Did we help them? Sure. But not to the extent we did the French, particularly in terms of loss of lives. Yet, the Brits are considerably more thankful than the French. I know; I used to be one.

The British and French should be thankful, but that doesn't mean they need to bow to America's will on international matters for the rest of eternity. It just doesn't.

Following World War II, Britain simply gave up any pretense of being a world power. They looked at the US, the USSR, and their own woeful situation (empire crumbling, financial ruin) and said "right, we'll hitch our star to the US wagon and see where we go". That's worked well for them ever since. The only serious disagreement between the US and USSR in the 60 or so years since was over the Suez situation.

BUT that does not mean the French, Dutch, Italians, Danes, Norwegians, etc. etc. need to do the same thing.

You're basically saying that my grandson should be your grandson's slave for life if you saved my life. It's silly.

[Amnorix]

Mmmm...doenitz...


ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[ptlyon]

Mmmm...doenitz...

And don't forget the cottage cheese!

[Donger]

The British and French should be thankful, but that doesn't mean they need to bow to America's will on international matters for the rest of eternity. It just doesn't.

Following World War II, Britain simply gave up any pretense of being a world power. They looked at the US, the USSR, and their own woeful situation (empire crumbling, financial ruin) and said "right, we'll hitch our star to the US wagon and see where we go". That's worked well for them ever since. The only serious disagreement between the US and USSR in the 60 or so years since was over the Suez situation.

BUT that does not mean the French, Dutch, Italians, Danes, Norwegians, etc. etc. need to do the same thing.

You're basically saying that my grandson should be your grandson's slave for life if you saved my life. It's silly.

I should have put a smiley on my "Yes, that would be a good start" post. I'm well aware that the French will never be like the Brits, nor do I want them to be.

What I find disturbing is the general lack of thanks that is forthcoming from the French; that's all. Particularly considering how many Americans died liberating them (twice).

[Amnorix]

I should have put a smiley on my "Yes, that would be a good start" post. I'm well aware that the French will never be like the Brits, nor do I want them to be.

What I find disturbing is the general lack of thanks that is forthcoming from the French; that's all. Particularly considering how many Americans died liberating them (twice).

Maybe they're still annoyed that we didn't save their bacon at Dien Bien Phu too?

Seriously, they're arrogant jerks, or at least their politicians are. DeGaulle was a headache to FDR and Churchill, and then a headache to the US for years afterwards.

They're just, well, FRENCH. Not evil, just, umm, French... :shrug:

[ChiTown]

Great post.

R.I.P., Dad.

[Otter]

All this time I thought it was the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor.

John Belushi is full of shit.

[Donger]

They're just, well, FRENCH. Not evil, just, umm, French... :shrug:

That's all, and that's enough for me, history notwithstanding. Of course, I am genetically predisposed to dislike them anyway.

[ChiTown]

That's all, and that's enough for me, history notwithstanding. Of course, I am genetically predisposed to dislike them anyway.

Donger

Where ya from again?

[Donger]

Donger

Where ya from again?

UK

[Amnorix]

Great post.

R.I.P., Dad.


My condolences for your loss and appreciation for the sacrifice your father and your family made for the country.

[Amnorix]

UK

:)

Genetically predisposed indeed. At least you can happily note that the British kicked the French's ass every damn time since the Norman conquest. Trafalgar, Waterloo, etc., throughout history you have kicked their butts.

Were you aware that the British actually captured a sitting French king back in the battle of Poitiers?

As usual, the French were slow to learn of new battlefield tactics. The triumph of archery over heavy cavalry didn't sink in for a little too long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poitiers

[ChiTown]

My condolences for your loss and appreciation for the sacrifice your father and your family made for the country.

I don't want to mislead you, he survived WWII. My Father passed away 3 years ago.

Thread's like these always remind me of my Father because he was a WWII vet and was a participant in the Normandy Invasion. He was proud to serve his country, but rarely if ever talked about it without a lot of nudging. I miss him every day.

[Swanman]

My specific compliments on D-Day:

1. First and foremost, to all those who fought and died in the biggest amphibious operation ever conducted.

2. To Dwight David Eisenhower, who shouldered a tremendous burden in overseeing the operation, and showed tremendous courage in ordering the attack launched during a very small window of opportunity where the weather was going to be acceptable. (the invasion was originally set for the 5th, but the weather made it impossible, and the portions of the fleet that had sailed had to turn back).

3. To General (later Field Marshal) Sir Bernard Law Montgomery, who noted several very serious deficiencies in the plan (originally 3 divisions on 20'ish miles of beach) and expanded it to 5 divisions. Without his strident insistence on this matter, the Germans may have been able to contain and repulse the invasion.

4. To the Big Red One. The veteran U.S. division which landed at Omaha Beach was perhaps the ONLY U.S. division that could have survived the furious German counterassault. Unknown to U.S. planners, an experienced German combat division, transferred from the Russian front, had moved into the area of Omaha Beach. The German defense was extremely tenacious. Very few divisions in the world would not have been pushed back into the sea.

5. General Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. (son of the former President). A one star general who helped save the situation on Utah beach, which was a bit of a cluster-f**k, as the men landed at the wrong place. The oldest D-Day invader, he insisted on leading his men from the front although he was a son of a President and therefore military brass tried to keep him back. He later died of a heart attack.

6. To the airborne and glider troopers who performed invaluable services at tremendous personal risk, suffering unbelievable hardships as nearly every plan went completely awry, and yet persevered to see their missions through.

I think Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. also had some physical issues that would have excused him from the assault, but he insisted on being there.

Thanks should also go to Hitler for not following Rommel's advice to have a more mobile defense on the beaches. Hitler wasn't willing to give up control of the Panzer divisions and he wanted them entrenched along the beaches instead of a mobile force to counterattack any attempt to breach the defenses. If the full Panzer divisions would have been able to counterattack, then D-Day may very well have not been successful.

Another couple interesting facts:

1) The Canadians were given the easiest beaches (Gold, Juno, Sword-I forget which ones exactly) in part because their forces were completely slaughtered attempting another beach landing, I believe in Italy earlier in the war.

2) An invasion was in preparation for Japan that would have been larger than D-Day had Japan not surrendered after the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Mr. Laz]

i can't even imagine what it would of been like to be in the first couple of waves on that assault.


from what i've seen/read they used to just charge ....



first waves just got cut down :(

[Donger]

:)

Genetically predisposed indeed. At least you can happily note that the British kicked the French's ass every damn time since the Norman conquest. Trafalgar, Waterloo, etc., throughout history you have kicked their butts.

Were you aware that the British actually captured a sitting French king back in the battle of Poitiers?

As usual, the French were slow to learn of new battlefield tactics. The triumph of archery over heavy cavalry didn't sink in for a little too long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poitiers

My personal favorite was Agincourt.

[Amnorix]

I don't want to mislead you, he survived WWII. My Father passed away 3 years ago.

Thread's like these always remind me of my Father because he was a WWII vet and was a participant in the Normandy Invasion. He was proud to serve his country, but rarely if ever talked about it without a lot of nudging. I miss him every day.

I think the reluctance to talk about it is very common among wartime vets.

Revise to "thanks to your father for his efforts on behalf of our country." :)

[Amnorix]

My personal favorite was Agincourt.

Oh right, duh, you would've had a British education that would actually cover these things.

In the US, 99% of people have never heard of Agincourt, couldn't tell you where Waterloo was or what happened there, and think Wellington is a just some kind of beef dish. :shake: :banghead:

[bkkcoh]

Yeah, if Saving Private Ryan was any indication of the fighting, it was hell. Thank god for the veterans who fought under terrible conditions. :toast: :clap:

[Donger]

Oh right, duh, you would've had a British education that would actually cover these things.

In the US, 99% of people have never heard of Agincourt, couldn't tell you where Waterloo was or what happened there, and think Wellington is a just some kind of beef dish. :shake: :banghead:

We left England when I was very young; in school but no history yet.

[Swanman]

i can't even imagine what it would of been like to be in the first couple of waves on that assault.


from what i've seen/read they used to just charge ....



first waves just got cut down :(

Most of the poor bastards didn't even get out of the landing craft, they were either cut down by machine gun fire while still in the boat or the boats were hit directly with artillery fire (not to mention the water mines and other obstacles). Basically, Omaha Beach was a success due to 1) the massive amount of attackers and 2) a lot of luck getting soldiers across the beach to some cover where they could mobilize.

[Amnorix]

I think Teddy Roosevelt, Jr. also had some physical issues that would have excused him from the assault, but he insisted on being there.

I'm 99% sure you're right on this, but I don't remember what it was. I want to say he was gimpy (used a cane) for some reason.

Thanks should also go to Hitler for not following Rommel's advice to have a more mobile defense on the beaches. Hitler wasn't willing to give up control of the Panzer divisions and he wanted them entrenched along the beaches instead of a mobile force to counterattack any attempt to breach the defenses. If the full Panzer divisions would have been able to counterattack, then D-Day may very well have not been successful.

I think you're mixing up some facts here, although some of what you say is correct in a way.

Field Marshal von Rundstedt, who was the German army commander for the entire West (and referred to Hitler as "that Bohemian corporal"), wanted a flexible mobile defense that was ready to respond wherever the Allies landed. Hitler and Rommel both favored a much more static defense with heavy pillbox concentrations and other fixed defenses creating an "Atlantic Wall". Rommel was technically von Rundstedt's underline, commanding Army Group B, I believe, in the Normany/Pas de Calais area.

You are correct that Hitler refused to move theater reserve Panzer divisions, despite entreaties from von Rundstedt's staff. (Rommel was in Germany on D-Day). von Rundstedt himself refused to speak with "that Bohemian corporal" as he held Hitler in utter disdain. Hitler was generally aware of this, noting that "as long as the Field Marshal bellaches, all is well" or something to that effect.

It is, of course, a tribute to von Rundstedt's brilliance that Hitler kept him in such a high position despite his known dislike for the Fuehrer.

Another couple interesting facts:

1) The Canadians were given the easiest beaches (Gold, Juno, Sword-I forget which ones exactly) in part because their forces were completely slaughtered attempting another beach landing, I believe in Italy earlier in the war.

The end of the Sicilian campaign and beginning of the Italian campaigns were all botched, as was Anzio. I hadn't heard that the Canadians were purpsoefully given "easy" beaches because of their prior failings, though this could be true. NOBODY knew that Omaha would be such a bloodbath.

2) An invasion was in preparation for Japan that would have been larger than D-Day had Japan not surrendered after the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Probably true, but the planning was SO preliminary it's hardly worth mentioning. As the Navy was in charge of the Pacific, and King was never stinting in providing fleet resources, including landing craft, it's likely they could have and would have mounted a larger invasion. The Overlord planners had a helluva time gettign King to commit enough LSTs and other critical invasion craft to Overlord.

[Brando]

I ended up watching Saving Pvt Ryan last night after setting up the home theater in the manroom.

My grandad was a medic in the 101, and was on Normandy-Berlin occupation. thanks old timers.

I thought that you were watching "Shaving Ryan's Privates."

[ChiTown]

Most of the poor bastards didn't even get out of the landing craft, they were either cut down by machine gun fire while still in the boat or the boats were hit directly with artillery fire (not to mention the water mines and other obstacles). Basically, Omaha Beach was a success due to 1) the massive amount of attackers and 2) a lot of luck getting soldiers across the beach to some cover where they could mobilize.

Literally, the first wave soldiers were on a suicide mission. That took incredible bravery...........

[Brock]

IMO, Germany should still be a smoking hole in the ground.

[Amnorix]

Literally, the first wave soldiers were on a suicide mission. That took incredible bravery...........

As well as physical fortitude. What few know is that many soldiers were cooped up on small invasion craft for DAYS prior to the actual invasion hitting the beaches. The men were weak from seasickness and vomiting. The smell was incredible as men were covered in their own vomit.

In the book, D-Day, there is one funny/horrendous line where one guy on an invasion craft going in sees a dead body floating in the water and says "Lucky bastard, he ain't sick no more".

[Rain Man]

I'd like to read more about the German-Japanese occupation plan for the U.S. I read once that they agreed to split the U.S. at the Rockies, with the Japanese getting the west part and the Germans taking the east. I'm not sure what Italy and Bulgaria and the others would get - Mississippi, I'd bet. Anyway, it'd be interesting to read more about it.

[chagrin]

If meant as a joke, okay.

If remotely meant to be serious -- don't be absurd.



Well, thank you for your blessing. One would have to be absurd themself if they thought for a second that it was meant as a serious comment. Don't be so sensitive dude, Many of my family fought in that war and were there on D-Day. I have the utmost respect and adoration for all of our Vets, on the front line, in the medical tents and stateside as well.
God Bless their sacrifices!

[Amnorix]

I'd like to read more about the German-Japanese occupation plan for the U.S. I read once that they agreed to split the U.S. at the Rockies, with the Japanese getting the west part and the Germans taking the east. I'm not sure what Italy and Bulgaria and the others would get - Mississippi, I'd bet. Anyway, it'd be interesting to read more about it.


I've read nothing about it. Nor have I ever seen any kind of invasion plan for America -- even one that was half-baked. Not to say that they don't exist, but I haven't seen it.

[chagrin]

I'd like to read more about the German-Japanese occupation plan for the U.S. I read once that they agreed to split the U.S. at the Rockies, with the Japanese getting the west part and the Germans taking the east. I'm not sure what Italy and Bulgaria and the others would get - Mississippi, I'd bet. Anyway, it'd be interesting to read more about it.


Don't be absurd Rain Main...

[Amnorix]

Well, thank you for your blessing. One would have to be absurd themself if they thought for a second that it was meant as a serious comment. Don't be so sensitive dude, Many of my family fought in that war and were there on D-Day. I have the utmost respect and adoration for all of our Vets, on the front line, in the medical tents and stateside as well.
God Bless their sacrifices!

No prob. Around here (this board), hatred for the French seems to run high, so with no smileys to indicate either way...

Anyway, carry on. :thumb:

[chagrin]

Ahh, gotcha...from now on I will make sure I cover that so there's no offense.

[Donger]

I'd like to read more about the German-Japanese occupation plan for the U.S. I read once that they agreed to split the U.S. at the Rockies, with the Japanese getting the west part and the Germans taking the east. I'm not sure what Italy and Bulgaria and the others would get - Mississippi, I'd bet. Anyway, it'd be interesting to read more about it.

I forget the exact numbers, but the Japanese launched many (hundreds?) of bomb-toting ballons at us during 1944-45. One killed a school teacher and five kids who found one in Oregon and dragged it back to their campsite. One landed in Kansas as well.

I've never heard anything about occupation plans, however.

[Donger]

Peh.

www.francesucks.com

[Rain Man]

I've read that there was a plan for occupation, but not for invasion. I'm guessing they had other things to think about.

I blame the French for covering this up.

[Amnorix]

I've read that there was a plan for occupation, but not for invasion. I'm guessing they had other things to think about.


Ah, I think I know what you're referring to. The Triparte (sp?) Pact, which formed the Axis Powers, split Earth into three spheres of influence, one for each of Germany, Itay and Japan. I"m betting that it drew a line through the Rockies, though I don't know for sure.

[ptlyon]

Ah, I think I know what you're referring to. The Triparte (sp?) Pact, which formed the Axis Powers, split Earth into three spheres of influence, one for each of Germany, Itay and Japan. I"m betting that it drew a line through the Rockies, though I don't know for sure.

Who would be the idiots that would want California?

Oh, that's right, the Japs.

[Mr. Kotter]

On June 6, 1944, the Allies landed 176,000 troops on Normandy. Can you imagine what a horrifying experience that must have been? My thanks go to those brave men.

I don't know, many of 'em were probably men who were "power hungry" or couldn't have done anything else. I mean, sheesh.....if they were smart they'd have gotten a waiver of some sort, and became a cop or somethin'

(TIC warning to those who mistake this for serious commentary....heh)

[Donger]

Ah, I think I know what you're referring to. The Triparte (sp?) Pact, which formed the Axis Powers, split Earth into three spheres of influence, one for each of Germany, Itay and Japan. I"m betting that it drew a line through the Rockies, though I don't know for sure.

I don't think the Tripartite Pact contained any information along those lines. IIRC, it was a very limited document.

[Amnorix]

I don't think the Tripartite Pact contained any information along those lines. IIRC, it was a very limited document.

Yeah, I looked it up. Sections 1 and 2 talk about Germany, Italy recognizing Japan's rights in the Greater East Asia sphere, and vice versa for a new world order in Europe. Nothing more detailed than that.