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The Rick
06-07-2005, 01:34 PM
Just tried turning on the A/C yesterday for the first time this year and I got little air coming out of the vents and it didn't feel all that cold. My first thought was to change the air filter so I did that. Now, more air comes out, but it's not cold. The thermostat is set at 78 degrees, but the temperature in the house won't go below 85 degrees.

I don't know much about A/C, but I did take a look at the outside unit. The fan was running, but I'm not sure if it continuously runs. After doing a little research on the Internet, I called my wife to have her check the two pipes coming out of the outside unit. I read that one should be cool and one should be warm if everything is working properly. Based on what she told me, both pipes were warm.

Anyone here know anything about air conditioning? What would cause only lukewarm air to come out and not cool air? Freon problem?

Brock
06-07-2005, 01:36 PM
You've blown one of your fuses. Open your electrical box by the outdoor unit and you'll find that one of them is smoked.

Donger
06-07-2005, 01:36 PM
Just tried turning on the A/C yesterday for the first time this year and I got little air coming out of the vents and it didn't feel all that cold. My first thought was to change the air filter so I did that. Now, more air comes out, but it's not cold. The thermostat is set at 78 degrees, but the temperature in the house won't go below 85 degrees.

I don't know much about A/C, but I did take a look at the outside unit. The fan was running, but I'm not sure if it continuously runs. After doing a little research on the Internet, I called my wife to have her check the two pipes coming out of the outside unit. I read that one should be cool and one should be warm if everything is working properly. Based on what she told me, both pipes were warm.

Anyone here know anything about air conditioning? What would cause only lukewarm air to come out and not cool air? Freon problem?

Sounds like a compressor problem. That's bad. Check the freon levels first, though.

jspchief
06-07-2005, 01:37 PM
Sounds like you need a recharge.

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 01:38 PM
Have the coolant Recharged and spray the unit out with a hose.

Brock
06-07-2005, 01:39 PM
It's a common problem when you turn it on for the first time. The compressor gets tight sitting idle all winter and when you first turn it on, it causes a power surge. There are two fuses, and when one blows, the compressor won't run.

The Rick
06-07-2005, 01:41 PM
You've blown one of your fuses. Open your electrical box by the outdoor unit and you'll find that one of them is smoked.
You mean mounted on the outside of the house? I did open that and there was something in there with a handle on it...like to use to pull whatever it was toward me. I thought that was probably the fuse, but wasn't sure if I should pull it out of the box or not. Does that make sense? Should I pull that? Does that give me access to the actual fuse or something?

KC Dan
06-07-2005, 01:41 PM
Just tried turning on the A/C yesterday for the first time this year and I got little air coming out of the vents and it didn't feel all that cold. My first thought was to change the air filter so I did that. Now, more air comes out, but it's not cold. The thermostat is set at 78 degrees, but the temperature in the house won't go below 85 degrees.

I don't know much about A/C, but I did take a look at the outside unit. The fan was running, but I'm not sure if it continuously runs. After doing a little research on the Internet, I called my wife to have her check the two pipes coming out of the outside unit. I read that one should be cool and one should be warm if everything is working properly. Based on what she told me, both pipes were warm.

Anyone here know anything about air conditioning? What would cause only lukewarm air to come out and not cool air? Freon problem?
If both tubes (i assume from the compressor) are warm, then you most likely have a problem. Generally, you will never get air from the unit that is more then 19-20 deg. cooler than outside air. So if the temp outside is 100deg, you wont see less than 80deg from the A/C inside. Make sure the fans come on and if the outside fan isn't coming on then the air will never cool down inside. Also, the compressor should cycle when the A/C is on. If when the temp inside is above the thermostat and you don't hear the compressor humming outside, its not on and either dead, has overloads that tripped or an electrical problem. If the outside fan doesn't come on, its only a matter of time until the compressor buys the farm. Lastly, do the stupid check and make sure your switch on the thermostat is on auto and cool selected. You have no idea how many times that I have seen the thermostat set wrong. Even by smart people.

Lzen
06-07-2005, 01:41 PM
I'm no AC guy but I do know that the fan can run even if the compressor is out. Correct me if I'm wrong AC repairmen, but I believe the compressor pumps the freon through the piping in the unit.

KC Dan
06-07-2005, 01:42 PM
You mean mounted on the outside of the house? I did open that and there was something in there with a handle on it...like to use to pull whatever it was toward me. I thought that was probably the fuse, but wasn't sure if I should pull it out of the box or not. Does that make sense? Should I pull that? Does that give me access to the actual fuse or something?
Yes, pull it out and check continuity of the fuses

KC Dan
06-07-2005, 01:43 PM
I'm no AC guy but I do know that the fan can run even if the compressor is out. Correct me if I'm wrong AC repairmen, but I believe the compressor pumps the freon through the piping in the unit.
true dat

Lzen
06-07-2005, 01:43 PM
You mean mounted on the outside of the house? I did open that and there was something in there with a handle on it...like to use to pull whatever it was toward me. I thought that was probably the fuse, but wasn't sure if I should pull it out of the box or not. Does that make sense? Should I pull that? Does that give me access to the actual fuse or something?

That sounds like mine. It has a handle that you can pull out. It is there to cut the power to the unit. At least that's what my sister's fiance told me and he works on that kind of stuff for a living.

Brock
06-07-2005, 01:43 PM
You mean mounted on the outside of the house? I did open that and there was something in there with a handle on it...like to use to pull whatever it was toward me. I thought that was probably the fuse, but wasn't sure if I should pull it out of the box or not. Does that make sense? Should I pull that? Does that give me access to the actual fuse or something?

Turn off the power at the breaker box. Open the metal box on the outside of your house. It will be obvious which fuse is blown.

Edit: Probably want to just replace both of them. They're cheap.

Lzen
06-07-2005, 01:45 PM
If both tubes (i assume from the compressor) are warm, then you most likely have a problem. Generally, you will never get air from the unit that is more then 19-20 deg. cooler than outside air. So if the temp outside is 100deg, you wont see less than 80deg from the A/C inside. Make sure the fans come on and if the outside fan isn't coming on then the air will never cool down inside. Also, the compressor should cycle when the A/C is on. If when the temp inside is above the thermostat and you don't hear the compressor humming outside, its not on and either dead, has overloads that tripped or an electrical problem. If the outside fan doesn't come on, its only a matter of time until the compressor buys the farm. Lastly, do the stupid check and make sure your switch on the thermostat is on auto and cool selected. You have no idea how many times that I have seen the thermostat set wrong. Even by smart people.


I take it you do this stuff for a living?

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 01:46 PM
Should I pull that? Does that give me access to the actual fuse or something?

Just don't spit on it and stick your pickle in there again, Napolean.

The Rick
06-07-2005, 01:47 PM
Wow...thanks guys for the tips. If it truly is just a blown fuse, you may have just saved me from a pointless $60 service call!

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 01:49 PM
$60?

That won't get the guy to start the truck.

I hope thats it.
You should still take a hose to the unit too.

The Rick
06-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Just don't spit on it and stick your pickle in there again, Napolean.
Sweeeeet!

ROYC75
06-07-2005, 01:53 PM
While we are on the kick of A/C's...... I need to keep our house cooler with the wife's medical condition........

I have a 3 ton unit here. I also have 8, 10 & 12 foot ceilings in my house. It gets hot in the 3 rooms that have the 10' & 12' .

1 ).Would it be best to upgrade to a 4 ton unit ?
2). Buy a window unit ( put it in the middle room aka; dining room ,between the outer 2 rooms ). can the window unit keep those 3 rooms that connect together cooler ?

What are the economic cost of running both or replacing the outside unit ?

Thoughts ?

The Rick
06-07-2005, 02:06 PM
$60?

That won't get the guy to start the truck.

I hope thats it.
You should still take a hose to the unit too.
Actually, I did that last night too. Forgot to mention that. I probably didn't do it good enough though because I wasn't sure. You're saying basically just take the hose over to the outside unit and just start spraying it down all over? No need to worry about anything?

I mean, I assume since it can withstand rain, it could withstand the hose...

ptlyon
06-07-2005, 02:09 PM
This should be linked in Handyman Corner.

Kudos Guys.

jspchief
06-07-2005, 02:11 PM
While we are on the kick of A/C's...... I need to keep our house cooler with the wife's medical condition........

I have a 3 ton unit here. I also have 8, 10 & 12 foot ceilings in my house. It gets hot in the 3 rooms that have the 10' & 12' .

1 ).Would it be best to upgrade to a 4 ton unit ?
2). Buy a window unit ( put it in the middle room aka; dining room ,between the outer 2 rooms ). can the window unit keep those 3 rooms that connect together cooler ?

What are the economic cost of running both or replacing the outside unit ?

Thoughts ?I think a window unit would kill you economically. Those things are money drains.

Brock
06-07-2005, 02:14 PM
While we are on the kick of A/C's...... I need to keep our house cooler with the wife's medical condition........

I have a 3 ton unit here. I also have 8, 10 & 12 foot ceilings in my house. It gets hot in the 3 rooms that have the 10' & 12' .

1 ).Would it be best to upgrade to a 4 ton unit ?
2). Buy a window unit ( put it in the middle room aka; dining room ,between the outer 2 rooms ). can the window unit keep those 3 rooms that connect together cooler ?

What are the economic cost of running both or replacing the outside unit ?

Thoughts ?

A couple hundred dollars vs. a couple thousand. I'd put in some ceiling fans.

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 02:15 PM
I'll link it in the handyman corner pt....good idear.

ptlyon
06-07-2005, 02:20 PM
I'll link it in the handyman corner pt....good idear.

That deserves an Attaboy

KC Dan
06-07-2005, 02:23 PM
I take it you do this stuff for a living?
I used to. I was trained by the best A/C - Refrig man in So. Cal - My dad. He had his own business for many years and trounced the big companies there. In fact, while in Cali in January I did 2 service calls for my brother. One was the twit had the unit set to heat and couldn't understand why it wouldn't get cold. The other - the condensor fan went out and the unit was on without it eventually burning up the compressor. See, the fan outside is your condener fan, as the freon gas moves through the coils from the compressor it gives up its heat by radiating it to the cooler ambient air outside the coils. The condensor fan speeds up the radiation of heat by blowing ambient air over the condensor coils. And, if the condensor fan doesn't help move the warm air away from the coils, the evaporator air won't get much cooler because no heat has been removed by the condener. Thank God I don't do calls anymore, too many stupid people. They don't clean filters/replace them or wash out the condenser coils.

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 02:24 PM
A couple hundred dollars vs. a couple thousand. I'd put in some ceiling fans.

Good call.

Good Ceiling Fans....wider span and not the $19 walmart variety.

It'll be Thousands to "upgrade" your CA unit.....but you could always put a couple of Window units in the bedroom and wherever she spends the most time to supplement your central air.

ROYC75
06-07-2005, 02:27 PM
A couple hundred dollars vs. a couple thousand. I'd put in some ceiling fans.


We have ceiling fans in 2 of the 3 rooms. Naturally the kitchen will get hot when cooking, the dinning room has 3 tall windows that collect heat with no fan. The family room has a ceiling fan where the thermostat is, I keep all lights off during the day.


IMHO, I was thinking a new energy saving a/c would work best. The cost of a bigger unit and installation will cost more that this fat boy wants to spend.

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 02:29 PM
plattadaddypus.....
have you made sure the fans have been switched to push the air down instead of lift? That makes a big difference in the summer.

you could also consider closing off vents to unused rooms during the day(say III's bedroom)....that'll allow more cool air for the main living area(at least in theory).

Keep your shades closed in the day time will also keep the radiational heat out of the house, keeping it naturally cooler. on the non-sun sides, you can open them for the light.

ROYC75
06-07-2005, 02:32 PM
plattadaddypus.....
have you made sure the fans have been switched to push the air down instead of lift? That makes a big difference in the summer.

you could also consider closing off vents to unused rooms during the day(say III's bedroom)....that'll allow more cool air for the main living area(at least in theory).

Keep your shades closed in the day time will also keep the radiational heat out of the house, keeping it naturally cooler. on the non-sun sides, you can open them for the light.

Check and check..........

Even the shades are closed, you can still feel the heat from these big tall baby's...... that's the biggest issue IMHO, besides the kitchen with the appliances.

ptlyon
06-07-2005, 02:35 PM
...you can still feel the heat from these big tall baby's...... that's the biggest issue IMHO, besides the kitchen with the appliances.

If they're a problem knock them out

The Rick
06-07-2005, 03:07 PM
Okay, I've been thinking about the fuse thing. Here's a dumb question:

If it really is the fuse that's blown, wouldn't the fan on the outside unit not be running/turning?

Iowanian
06-07-2005, 03:08 PM
I'm thinking the fan and compressor aren't running on the same circuit..thats probably why there would be 2 fuses?

It could be as simple as your coolant leaking off over the winter...or it could be that the underpants gnomes filled the tubing while using it as a storage unit, hiding all of those tubesocks you ruined while your wife was visiting her sister during the free cinnemax weekend.....

KC Dan
06-07-2005, 03:08 PM
Okay, I've been thinking about the fuse thing. Here's a dumb question:

If it really is the fuse that's blown, wouldn't the fan on the outside unit not be running/turning?
If the fuse is bad, no turny-turny. No compressor, nada. You are correct.

The Rick
06-07-2005, 03:11 PM
I'm thinking the fan and compressor aren't running on the same circuit..thats probably why there would be 2 fuses?

It could be as simple as your coolant leaking off over the winter...or it could be that the underpants gnomes filled the tubing while using it as a storage unit, hiding all of those tubesocks you ruined while your wife was visiting her sister during the free cinnemax weekend.....
I hate those underpants gnomes! :cuss:

Skip Towne
06-07-2005, 03:28 PM
I hate those underpants gnomes! :cuss:
Sometimes the satellite fairy comes by and fixes problems for me.

Brock
06-07-2005, 03:34 PM
Okay, I've been thinking about the fuse thing. Here's a dumb question:

If it really is the fuse that's blown, wouldn't the fan on the outside unit not be running/turning?

There are two fuses. The one which runs the compressor is the one that usually blows.

KC Kings
06-07-2005, 03:45 PM
That sounds like mine. It has a handle that you can pull out. It is there to cut the power to the unit. At least that's what my sister's fiance told me and he works on that kind of stuff for a living.
This is partly incorrect. There are two voltages going to the compressor, 200 volts which is always connected, and pulling the block will disconnect the 200.

There is also a 24 volt coming from inside the house. When your blower turns on inside the house, it sends 24 out to the compressor to trip a relay that closes the circuit on the 200 and turns on the compressor

If your inside fan comes on but the outside compressor doesn't turn on, more than likely it is the contacts on your relay. This is VERY common problem during the beginning of the AC season, and the relay cost $20. If you are electrical saavy, you can take off the cover, check the bottom poles with a meter and you should get 200. With the AC running inside you should also get 200 across the top poles, but if your relay is bad you will get 0 volts or close to it.

If you are in KC and want this done by a pro that won't bend you over, send me a PM.

KC Kings
06-07-2005, 03:56 PM
We have ceiling fans in 2 of the 3 rooms. Naturally the kitchen will get hot when cooking, the dinning room has 3 tall windows that collect heat with no fan. The family room has a ceiling fan where the thermostat is, I keep all lights off during the day.


IMHO, I was thinking a new energy saving a/c would work best. The cost of a bigger unit and installation will cost more that this fat boy wants to spend.

What about an attic fan? I buddy of mine has a attrium split and the ceiling in the living room ceiling is 30 feet tall, and there is a catwalk over the living room to the 4th bedroom. It would get about 180 degrees up there, so he installed an attic fan to pull the cool air up, and push the hot air out of the house.

C-Mac
06-07-2005, 04:00 PM
This is partly incorrect. There are two voltages going to the compressor, 200 volts which is always connected, and pulling the block will disconnect the 200.

There is also a 24 volt coming from inside the house. When your blower turns on inside the house, it sends 24 out to the compressor to trip a relay that closes the circuit on the 200 and turns on the compressor

If your inside fan comes on but the outside compressor doesn't turn on, more than likely it is the contacts on your relay. This is VERY common problem during the beginning of the AC season, and the relay cost $20. If you are electrical saavy, you can take off the cover, check the bottom poles with a meter and you should get 200. With the AC running inside you should also get 200 across the top poles, but if your relay is bad you will get 0 volts or close to it.

If you are in KC and want this done by a pro that won't bend you over, send me a PM.

KC Kings\Dan
I assume the reverse is true that a defaulty relay would keep the compressor from shutting off when the fan shuts off or could it be further up the line? I replaced the relay last year because the compressor wasn't kicking on.

KC Kings
06-07-2005, 04:28 PM
KC Kings\Dan
I assume the reverse is true that a defaulty relay would keep the compressor from shutting off when the fan shuts off or could it be further up the line? I replaced the relay last year because the compressor wasn't kicking on.

Is that the problem you are having now, that the compressor never turns off? The relay is two pieces of metal seperated by springs. When 24 vdc comes to the relay it causes the outside piece to suck in via a magnetic force stronger than the spring. Since your AC has been off all winter it should not be stuck on. It is possible but not very probably that the relay is stuck with the plates connected. The opposite would be possible, because sometimes when your relay is "replaced", the points are just cleaned and you are charged for a new part that was never installed.

If your compressor is on all of the time, is your internal fan on all of the time also? If it doesn't get cool your thermostat will never shut off the internal, which will never shut off the external.

C-Mac
06-07-2005, 04:52 PM
Is that the problem you are having now, that the compressor never turns off? The relay is two pieces of metal seperated by springs. When 24 vdc comes to the relay it causes the outside piece to suck in via a magnetic force stronger than the spring. Since your AC has been off all winter it should not be stuck on. It is possible but not very probably that the relay is stuck with the plates connected. The opposite would be possible, because sometimes when your relay is "replaced", the points are just cleaned and you are charged for a new part that was never installed.

If your compressor is on all of the time, is your internal fan on all of the time also? If it doesn't get cool your thermostat will never shut off the internal, which will never shut off the external.

I replaced the relay myself last year, but knowing how electronic parts can be these days, it doesnt mean much. Yes the problem is that the compressor doesnt shut off even though the thermostat kicks the fan off. So for now I have been throwing the breaker off to the compressor in the evening so it doesnt run all nite.

elvomito
06-07-2005, 08:04 PM
when the a/c is running and cooling, about how cool should the "cool" line be coming off the compressor outside? the warm one is pretty warm, and the cool one is just mildly cool.

also, the air coming out of my vents is 17 degrees cooler than the ambient air inside the house, but the house doesn't cool. maybe 1 degree per 2 hours.

now, i know i need insulation in the attic, and maybe walls while i'm at it. but there's no major air leaks in the house.
any thoughts?

C-Mac
06-07-2005, 08:12 PM
when the a/c is running and cooling, about how cool should the "cool" line be coming off the compressor outside? the warm one is pretty warm, and the cool one is just mildly cool.

also, the air coming out of my vents is 17 degrees cooler than the ambient air inside the house, but the house doesn't cool. maybe 1 degree per 2 hours.

now, i know i need insulation in the attic, and maybe walls while i'm at it. but there's no major air leaks in the house.
any thoughts?

If your filter in the house is clean then either your coils outside cant breath or you need freon.

elvomito
06-07-2005, 08:42 PM
probably freon i guess. everything's been cleaned.
so, is the temp drop supposed to be about 20 degrees?

C-Mac
06-07-2005, 09:03 PM
probably freon i guess. everything's been cleaned.
so, is the temp drop supposed to be about 20 degrees?

Not sure of the exact temperature but if it used to cool the house before and now its not, its not the insulation. Are the copper lines sweaty at all?

Chiefsrocker
06-07-2005, 10:01 PM
Ok try this. First check your filters. Then check the breaker/fuse box for any blown or tripped 220 volt breakers or fuses. If that is ok, go outside and look at the condenser unit. Is it running, humming, or anything. If hunning, you probablyu have a blown breaker or fuse somewhere. If running, maybe low on freon or just dirty. If nothing at all, could be the thermostat. If you havent washed out the condenser, now is the time to do it. turn off the power, and take a garden hose and wash out the aluminum fins or coils. You can usually see them easily, but some brands put a housing around them. Make sure you wash it out well. If at all possible, take the top off and dig out the leaves and stuff that has collected. the bestpossible way is to wash the fins from the inside out, since most condensers suck air through the coils when running. After this is done, turn everything back on. It will dry itself out. Check the two lines that go into the house. the bigger line that is insulated should get cool, and start to sweat, but not freeze or show signs of ice buildup. If the lines feel the same, you probably need freon, or compressor isnt running. Next check the blower motor in the furnbace inside. It should be running on high speed.If filters are plugged, the fan can slow down, and this can cause freezing or ice buildup. If the fan motor isnt running, either t-stat, fan relay, capacitor, or motor has failed. I hope this helps and gets ya going and saves you a service call. Us HVAC guys are kinda expensive! lol

elvomito
06-07-2005, 10:18 PM
thanks... yes HVAC guys do make their money!
rightfully so though
now, i cleaned everything and installed new filter.
this is my first summer in this house, and when i bought it the inspector said the a/c was performing within guidelines.
the insulated line does get cool. the other line is super hot right now too.
i peaked in at the a-coil and no freeze, but lottsa condensation that seems to drain sufficiently.
i will check the furnace blower wiring. maybe its a 2 speed fan and been on low all this time.

elvomito
06-07-2005, 10:25 PM
inside, no condensation on the cool line.
on the hot line, there is a "line dryer"

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:22 AM
Okay, well, here's the latest on my situation. I went home last night and swapped the fuses on the outside of the house thinking that if it was a blown fuse, then the reverse would happen: the compressor would run but the fan wouldn't. No such luck.

So, today, I paid someone $60 to come out and take a look at it. The guy hooks up something to the unit outside and after 2 minutes tells me the compressor is bad and I need a whole new A/C system.

I couldn't believe he could determine that so quickly. He said he could try putting a "power surge" on the compressor, but he wasn't sure if it would work and if it did, how long it would work. I had him go ahead and try that and that didn't work either. It sounded like the compressor would run for a few seconds, then kick off.

So, the guys says I need a new system and gives me a quote for ~$3000 which includes everything (parts, labor, electrician, permits, etc.). That's for a 2.5 ton Puron based system. He said a Freeon based system would be cheaper, but that Freeon was going to be banned or phased out soon or something.

My question is, does all of this sound right? I mean, I heard the compressor kick on, but then kick off when his monitor or whatever was hooked up to it. I'm pretty sure I heard the compressor run (or try to run) longer than that before.

Does the price for the new system sound about right? Does the compressor being bad sound right? Is it worth it to get a second opinion?

Phobia
06-08-2005, 11:24 AM
Does the price for the new system sound about right? Does the compressor being bad sound right? Is it worth it to get a second opinion?

It's ALWAYS worth it to get a second opinion. ENDelt had a quote of $40k+ on his deck and that guy wasn't building him a bar, countertop, and built-in grill. I did it ALL for significantly less.

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:34 AM
It's ALWAYS worth it to get a second opinion. ENDelt had a quote of $40k+ on his deck and that guy wasn't building him a bar, countertop, and built-in grill. I did it ALL for significantly less.
Okay, okay...so how much would you charge me?

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:36 AM
It's ALWAYS worth it to get a second opinion. ENDelt had a quote of $40k+ on his deck and that guy wasn't building him a bar, countertop, and built-in grill. I did it ALL for significantly less.
All kidding aside, what I meant was would it be worth it for me to have someone else come out to take a look at my existing A/C unit to see if it really is the compressor. I mean, is it something where if the compressor is bad, it's pretty obvious?

I will certainly get a second quote on a new system...

C-Mac
06-08-2005, 11:37 AM
Does the price for the new system sound about right? Does the compressor being bad sound right? Is it worth it to get a second opinion?



$3000 for a bad compressor?
Did you notice if the compressor motor had a starter capacitor on it?

ptlyon
06-08-2005, 11:37 AM
That wouldn't hurt either

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:46 AM
$3000 for a bad compressor?
Did you notice if the compressor motor had a starter capacitor on it?
Starter capacitor? Is that the cylinder shaped thing that's probably about 4-5 inches tall? Yeah, it had that on it. The "power surge" thing he tried hooked up directly to that...

ptlyon
06-08-2005, 11:47 AM
Ok, first things first.

Did you try an impact adjustment on it?

Brock
06-08-2005, 11:48 AM
Okay, well, here's the latest on my situation. I went home last night and swapped the fuses on the outside of the house thinking that if it was a blown fuse, then the reverse would happen: the compressor would run but the fan wouldn't. No such luck.

Dude, I don't think that will work. The reason there are two fuses is because the compressor runs on 3-phase (220).

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:49 AM
Ok, first things first.

Did you try an impact adjustment on it?
You mean...did I try introducing my foot to it? No, I didn't try that...

ptlyon
06-08-2005, 11:51 AM
You mean...did I try introducing my foot to it? No, I didn't try that...

Mistake #1.

The Rick
06-08-2005, 11:54 AM
Mistake #1.
So I should just walk up to the outside unit and give it a good swift kick on the side?

KC Dan
06-08-2005, 12:00 PM
Okay, well, here's the latest on my situation. I went home last night and swapped the fuses on the outside of the house thinking that if it was a blown fuse, then the reverse would happen: the compressor would run but the fan wouldn't. No such luck.

So, today, I paid someone $60 to come out and take a look at it. The guy hooks up something to the unit outside and after 2 minutes tells me the compressor is bad and I need a whole new A/C system.

I couldn't believe he could determine that so quickly. He said he could try putting a "power surge" on the compressor, but he wasn't sure if it would work and if it did, how long it would work. I had him go ahead and try that and that didn't work either. It sounded like the compressor would run for a few seconds, then kick off.

So, the guys says I need a new system and gives me a quote for ~$3000 which includes everything (parts, labor, electrician, permits, etc.). That's for a 2.5 ton Puron based system. He said a Freeon based system would be cheaper, but that Freeon was going to be banned or phased out soon or something.

My question is, does all of this sound right? I mean, I heard the compressor kick on, but then kick off when his monitor or whatever was hooked up to it. I'm pretty sure I heard the compressor run (or try to run) longer than that before.

Does the price for the new system sound about right? Does the compressor being bad sound right? Is it worth it to get a second opinion?
Sounds right, but get another quote. We got a unit for someone in So. Cal and with installation 3 ton unit was about $2800. So $3000 is not far fetched.

ptlyon
06-08-2005, 12:09 PM
So I should just walk up to the outside unit and give it a good swift kick on the side?

I prefer the BFH method. Less adpt to break your foot.

C-Mac
06-08-2005, 12:34 PM
Dude, I don't think that will work. The reason there are two fuses is because the compressor runs on 3-phase (220).

Rick,
You need to make sure you are getting 220volts to the compressor motor.

Starter capacitor? Is that the cylinder shaped thing that's probably about 4-5 inches tall? Yeah, it had that on it. The "power surge" thing he tried hooked up directly to that....

I wonder if he by passed it or tried to go thru it?

The Rick
06-08-2005, 12:38 PM
Rick,
You need to make sure you are getting 220volts to the compressor motor.
How would I go about doing that?
I wonder if he by passed it or tried to go thru it?
I think he tried to go through it. He never "unhooked" it, just hooked up this new cylinder thing to the old cylinder thing. :rolleyes:

C-Mac
06-08-2005, 12:48 PM
How would I go about doing that?

I think he tried to go through it. He never "unhooked" it, just hooked up this new cylinder thing to the old cylinder thing. :rolleyes:

Do you have any kid of volt meter?

The Rick
06-08-2005, 01:02 PM
Do you have any kid of volt meter?
No, but I think I know what you're talking about. Two wires, clamps on the end. Put one on each side and check the readout on the monitor or gage?

I'll have to see if anyone I know has one (or buy one)...

Brock
06-08-2005, 01:05 PM
The easiest way to check it is just to put new fuses in....

Whatever.

Lzen
06-08-2005, 01:08 PM
Sounds right, but get another quote. We got a unit for someone in So. Cal and with installation 3 ton unit was about $2800. So $3000 is not far fetched.

Yeah but couldn't he just replace the compressor? Or is there more to it than that?

The Rick
06-08-2005, 01:10 PM
Yeah but couldn't he just replace the compressor? Or is there more to it than that?
That's what I was wondering. Of course, I believe the system is 12-15 years old though...

Donger
06-08-2005, 01:20 PM
That's what I was wondering. Of course, I believe the system is 12-15 years old though...

Get a quote on replacing the compressor only. He can run a pressure check on the rest of the system. If that's okay and the fan runs...

C-Mac
06-08-2005, 01:21 PM
That's what I was wondering. Of course, I believe the system is 12-15 years old though...

That was my point.
Check on the price of a new compressor or even some companies will have used compressor also.

Volt meters are reasonably priced and always good to have around.

elvomito
06-08-2005, 01:50 PM
here's a 3.5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79623&item=5980551735&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) and a 2.5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79623&item=5980556319&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) ton puron system on ebay located in cali. couldn't he just buy this himself and pay someone to install it and save a little $$?

C-Mac
06-08-2005, 02:11 PM
here's a 3.5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79623&item=5980551735&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) and a 2.5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79623&item=5980556319&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) ton puron system on ebay located in cali. couldn't he just buy this himself and pay someone to install it and save a little $$?

You bettcha!
He could also probably install most of it himself and just pay to have the freon pumped down and back in.

ptlyon
06-08-2005, 02:12 PM
You bettcha!
He could also probably install most of it himself and just pay to have the freon pumped down and back in.

Depending on your city codes, or if he chooses to follow them, that is...

The Rick
06-08-2005, 02:16 PM
You bettcha!
He could also probably install most of it himself and just pay to have the freon pumped down and back in.
Care to take a road trip to Milwaukee? :hmmm:

Chiefsrocker
06-08-2005, 06:34 PM
Oh yea, forgot ot add this. A real easy way to see if your AC is upand going good is to measure the air going in (retuen air) and the air coming out (Supply air) You try to aim for about 15 to 20 degrees difference. To low, the AC is undersized or poor airflow or low charge. To high, AC is probably oversized. Try that and see what you get!

Moon§hiner
06-08-2005, 07:02 PM
Sounds like he put a hard start kit on your compressor that has a relay built into it...if it didn't get it going, then it "might" be a bad compressor...could just be a wire burnt off at the terminal at the compressor....I'd get a second opinion and I sure as heck wouldn't put a new compressor in a 15 year old a/c..the labor involved is a trade off with the short warranty you get on a replacement compressor...as of Jan 2006, minimum Seer ratings go to 13 and with that the price goes up too...get 2 or three estimates and don't tell the other guys what the last guy found...I'm in the business but I do see some horror stories out there where all I can say is buyer beware.

BTW Iowanian...to properly hose down your condensor, you disassemble it and flush from inside out or you are only telling your buddys to push more crap into the fins so I can make more money off of them...heh

elvomito
06-08-2005, 07:50 PM
...BTW Iowanian...to properly hose down your condensor, you disassemble it and flush from inside out or you are only telling your buddys to push more crap into the fins so I can make more money off of them...heh
well that was part of my problem. i did clean it previously, but there was a hard-to-see layer of lint caked on. dissassembled the cover and top, cleaned it out, and now the a/c works a little better.

word of advice: don't locate your dryer vent near your compressor