GRETZ: Mr. Durable [Archive]

Lzen

06-08-2005, 07:34 AM

Jun 08, 2005, 6:03:01 AM by Bob Gretz

It’s funny how the perception of Trent Green has changed over the last four years. Not funny like ha, ha, ha, did you hear the one about the rabbi and priest in the life raft? No, I mean funny, as in how he’s viewed by the fans and the media. The general consensus has come full circle on Green.

Then it was: the Chiefs are giving up a first-round draft pick for a quarterback coming off a major knee injury? Why can’t they just draft and develop their own quarterback? Why do they have to keep picking up old guys?gg2

Now it’s: oh sure, he’s started 64 consecutive games, is one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league, has gone to the Pro Bowl and has directed the most productive offense in the NFL for four seasons. But his luck’s going to run out one of these days and he’s going to get hurt because he’s so old.

It’s just part of the whacked out world that an NFL starting quarterback must handle on a daily basis. With the possible exception of New England’s Tom Brady, the other 31 starting NFL quarterbacks are never quite smart enough, young enough, strong-armed enough or victorious enough to completely quiet the hounds.

Green’s been hearing that for four years now.

“Yeah, the old ‘I can’t believe they are making this big trade for a guy with a bad knee’,” Green said with a laugh. “I think hopefully I’ve put that to rest.”

There should no longer be any doubts about his durability, not after he’s started every game over the last four seasons. Only three other quarterbacks in the league have done that and none were coming off as serious an injury as the knee blowout Green suffered during the 1999 pre-season.

“It is funny how that was such the main focus in the first year and even past that, and now it’s how long can he stay healthy?” said Green. “All that reaffirms the hard work and hours you spend in the weight room. The season is a marathon and that’s the hardest part as a player is the recovery, especially as you get older, the recovery from week to week and getting yourself ready. How you feel at the end of the season isn’t great and how quickly can you recover, and then during the season, how quickly can you recover from week to week and then training camp; as you get older it’s harder. But I’m enjoying it too much right now. I want to keep going.”

Some 18 days before the Chiefs get on the big bird and head north for training camp in Wisconsin, Julie, T.J. and Derek will celebrate Dad’s birthday. Trent Green will be 35 years old. This is the age when most football players have put away their pads and gone on with the rest of their life. Even quarterbacks, who tend to play longer than other positions, seldom reach 35 years.

Right now, Green will be the second oldest starting quarterback among the 32 who are expected to open the season for their teams. Only Green Bay’s Brett Favre is older, by 272 days.

But just like the ebb and blow of public opinion about his health and his future, Green does not spend much time pondering life after football. At least not until somebody else brings it up.

“I feel great,” Green said. “My knee was the big question when I came here. Every year it feels better. I still do a lot of work with it, from a rehab or maintaining basis, because I’m afraid of what would happen if I don’t do it. It feels great. The rest of my body feels good.

“I’ve kind of said three more years, but if in three years I feel great, then I want to keep going. I don’t know why I said three years, that’s just the number I throw out. I will be 35 right before camp starts, so it would be 35, 36, maybe 37. If it’s still going great then just keep going. I don’t know if it’s because of my background, being an eighth-round pick and taking me forever to get on the field and when I did get on the field, I got hurt.

“I just really enjoy the locker room dynamic. You get guys from all walks of life and the different age groups, everything about it. I enjoy doing what I do. Hopefully, it won’t be over any time soon.”

Long-time Chiefs fans have always bemoaned the team’s inability to draft and develop a quarterback. That emotion is misplaced. The two best passers in club history – Green and Len Dawson – while not drafted by the organization, certainly were developed while wearing the red and gold. Dawson spent five years on the bench in Pittsburgh and Cleveland with just three starting assignments, before he got his shot with the Dallas Texans in 1962. In seven seasons before he arrived in Kansas City, Green started a total of 19 games. There’s no question his development as a quarterback has happened right before our eyes over the last four years. What difference does it make who drafted him?

Dawson played through the 1975 season, retiring at the age of 40. He was the unquestioned starting quarterback through the 1974 season. Whether Green can play that long and that effectively is his next great challenge.

But his thoughts right now are only on 2005. There is a sense of urgency around the Chiefs. The clock is ticking, especially with the offense, where seven starters will be 30 or older. Then there’s the 2005 schedule, with its tough opening against the New York Jets, Oakland, Denver and Philadelphia.

“To say if things don’t go our way that first month the season is over, that’s not the case,” said Green. “There are always teams that start off the season slowly and come back and make the playoffs. From a momentum standpoint, enthusiasm, confidence, it is important for us. The fact we open at home, and finish at home, with those last two games at home, that’s so important. Those are opportunities for momentum, whether starting the season, or starting into the playoffs.”

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/06/08/gretz_mr_durable/

Lzen

06-08-2005, 07:35 AM

It's easy for us to forget how blessed we've been over the past few seasons with Green at the helm. I mean, if you look at another way, we could've ended up with someone like Plummer. ROFL

milkman

06-08-2005, 07:49 AM

I was really unhappy about trading for Green at the time, but over the years, I have come to respect Green as much as any QB in the league.

I don't worry about Green getting hurt because of his age, as Gretz suggests.

I worry more that he could get hurt because of his tenacity, his desire to make a play when things break down in the pocket.

I'd be very happy if Green can play the 3 years and beyond he talks about.

InChiefsHeaven

06-08-2005, 07:54 AM

Green is the man. I knew it in his second season, the opening game. (The helmet throwing game). He just showed heart and determination. THen there was the devastating block he threw to spring Holmes free.

He's the man. I'm glad he's on our side.

Gaz

06-08-2005, 07:56 AM

I was one of the folks opposed to giving up a draft pick for a broken-knee QB.

I was wrong. Really, REALLY wrong.

Green lacks the cannon arm, but his leadership on and off the field more than make up for that shortcoming. And I just love watching him throw blocks on the field. That time he pancaked a guy to spring Holmes into the end zone was priceless.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wrong again and happy as can be about it.

ChiefFripp

06-08-2005, 07:59 AM

He is at this point the second best Chiefs QB ever.

htismaqe

06-08-2005, 08:01 AM

06-08-2005, 08:18 AM

I was certainly not opposed to trading for Trent, he did after all show in a brief glimpse that he could kick some a$$ in this offense, and had a head coach with 110% confidence in him. I did, however, strongly oppose giving up a 1st round pick when he was still unproven over even just a full season, and still recovering from a serious knee injury. Yet I am damn pleased he proved us all wrong.

Trent Green is now, and forever will be, one of my all-time favorite players!! Great QB, tenacious attitude (I love it when he's downfield throwing blocks for his RBs), tremendous leadership! Rock on Trent!

milkman

06-08-2005, 08:19 AM

I think this post from a thread about Green a month ago sums up my thoughts about him.

I think the illusion that some people have that Trent folds under pressure might be created by the fact that Trent sometimes trys to make plays where there aren't any to be made, because he knows the offense has to score in order for this team to win.

The reality is he makes some outstanding plays when he's under pressure, along with some mistakes, because he doesn't give up.

He's not the most talented, nor does he have the strongest arm, but he's a tough SOB who simply doesn't quit, and doesn't get vaginal under duress.

Because of that, while Manning has more talent, I wouldn't trade Green straight up for him.

Peyton is the most vaginal player in the league, at least as far as I'm concerned.

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 08:24 AM

He is at this point the second best Chiefs QB ever.

Best, IMO. If we had any semblance of a D over the past three seasons, he'd be "SB champion QB Trent Green". :grr:

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 08:28 AM

He's no Shevin Sheth.

ChiTown

06-08-2005, 08:29 AM

Best, IMO. If we had any semblance of a D over the past three seasons, he'd be "SB champion QB Trent Green". :grr:

No way.

Watching Dawson and Taylor dice up the competition for as long as they did makes Lenny #1. Plus, his HOF bust trumps whatever Trent's done thus far :)

06-08-2005, 08:32 AM

No way.

Watching Dawson and Taylor dice up the competition for as long as they did makes Lenny #1. Plus, his HOF bust trumps whatever Trent's done thus far :)

Gotta agree. HOF vs. 3 years leading high-powered offense, 1 Pro-Bowl, 1 playoff appearance, 0 playoff wins.

Let's watch Trent earn the franchise a Lombardi Trophy, himself a SB ring and SB MVP award in 2005, and that completely changes!

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 08:37 AM

Put Green on that team and they win more than ONE SB, guaranteed. ;)

06-08-2005, 08:38 AM

Put Green on that team and they win more than ONE SB, guaranteed. ;)

That would be fun to see!!

But put Lenny on this team, and what do we have? Prolly same 'ol.

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 08:41 AM

That would be fun to see!!

But put Lenny on this team, and what do we have? Prolly same 'ol.

Lenny was cool under pressure, but didn't scramble nearly as much as Green does. It would be interesting, that's for sure :)

I bet ol' Lenny would agree with me: Green is KC's best QB EVAR!!11! :D

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 08:42 AM

And he's certainly no Patrick Ramsey:

KCFalcon59

06-08-2005, 08:46 AM

Best, IMO. If we had any semblance of a D over the past three seasons, he'd be "SB champion QB Trent Green". :grr:

We'd be talking about a Chiefs Dynasty instead of NE.

milkman

06-08-2005, 08:49 AM

Lenny was cool under pressure, but didn't scramble nearly as much as Green does. It would be interesting, that's for sure :)

I bet ol' Lenny would agree with me: Green is KC's best QB EVAR!!11! :D

Lenny played in a era when receivers got absolutely mugged, when O-Linemen weren't allowed to use their hands to block, defensive linemen were allowed to use headslaps, etc, etc.

I think it's really difficult to draw comparisons.

I think Green could have played, and played well in those days, but I also think that Lenny would really be an outstanding QB in today's game.

But if Green had an Otis Taylor to throw to, he, I think, would be considered among the elite QBs today, rather than among the best of the 2nd tier QBs.

As I say, I would rather have Green than the guy that everybody in the media slobbers over.

InChiefsHeaven

06-08-2005, 08:49 AM

Gotta agree. HOF vs. 3 years leading high-powered offense, 1 Pro-Bowl, 1 playoff appearance, 0 playoff wins.

Let's watch Trent earn the franchise a Lombardi Trophy, himself a SB ring and SB MVP award in 2005, and that completely changes!

Still, no defense makes a huge impact. I will agree though, until he gets the ring, he won't get the props.

....but Green didn't lose that f#@$ing playoff game...

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 09:07 AM

A quick stat check shows Green clearly losing to Ramsey as the all-time Chiefs QB...sorry guys:

Lzen

06-08-2005, 09:21 AM

A quick stat check shows Green clearly losing to Ramsey as the all-time Chiefs QB...sorry guys:

You're such a geek. :shake:

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 09:49 AM

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 09:52 AM

2. the issue was magnified by the fact the Green played poorly his first two years here.

He had one bad year... his first. He put up ~3700 yds, 61% comp, and 2:1 TD:INT his second season.

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 09:54 AM

2. the issue was magnified by the fact the Green played poorly his first two years here

Why do you always **** up?

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 09:57 AM

He had one bad year... his first. He put up ~3700 yds, 61% comp, and 2:1 TD:INT his second season.

ROFL ROFL

i wondered how long it would take you Gretz-y to post about that.

almost changed it to 1 1/2 ... but then thought it would be a funny test to see how many nano-seconds to post about it.

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 09:58 AM

Why do you always **** up?

why can't you get laid?

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:23 AM

Don't mind Laz. He's still got some sand in his vagina. :p

KCTitus

06-08-2005, 10:27 AM

KC got Holmes for 'free' and TG for a first round pick...I'd say that things worked out just fine in 2001's preseason.

Those are two of the main cogs of KC's league leading offense for the last 4 years.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:30 AM

And HC is right, it was only 1 bad season. I don't think we have a right to bitch about Green given his production over the past 3 years. I tend to cut him some slack for his first season in KC because of his knee problem that year and the terrible receiving corps he was stuck with.

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 10:31 AM

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 10:31 AM

I don't think we have a right to bitch

you coulda just stopped right there

KCTitus

06-08-2005, 10:33 AM

What, Marvin Minnis wasn't an all-pro?!

Ahh, yes...the WR excuse. Good times...

06-08-2005, 10:34 AM

Don't mind Laz. He's still got some sand in his vagina. :p

Somebody get Laz some 30# test line floss for his vaginal teeth, got a little ditty stuck in there.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:35 AM

you coulda just stopped right there

Well tell us, which half of the 02 season was Trent Green bad? Was it the first half or the 2nd half?

nmt1

06-08-2005, 10:36 AM

I'd guess that if you asked any current GM in the NFL right now, they'd say it was a huge risk at the time but knowing what they know now, they absolutely would've given the pick up for Green.
Bottom line, we spent a 1st round pick on Green and it worked out. Nothing else matters.

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 10:45 AM

Well tell us, which half of the 02 season was Trent Green bad? Was it the first half or the 2nd half?

Actually he wasn't too good the first 2 or 3 games...the rest of the way, he became the butterfly of quarterbacking we know and love today.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:45 AM

I'm gonna assume Laz is saying TG's first half of the 2002 season was bad since he threw 10 TDs to only 3 INTs in the final 8 games.

His first 8 games of the 2002 season were pretty good, though.

154/244 63.1% 16 TDs 10 INTs 1864 yards

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 10:48 AM

Well tell us, which half of the 02 season was Trent Green bad? Was it the first half or the 2nd half?
if memory serves, i believe he started of his 2nd season with and interception like he had in his first year and It got people worried.

he settled down and cut out the Int's and finished strong. People haven't complained since. Except for the people like Gretz who seem to think that since the Green situation turned out well it automatically discounts every complaint ever made about Green ... making them somehow invalid.

the very fact that you,HC,Goatboy are arguing about exactly how long Green's rough start was INSTEAD of the overall point of the discussion pretty much proves it.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:50 AM

Actually he wasn't too good the first 2 or 3 games...the rest of the way, he became the butterfly of quarterbacking we know and love today.

@ Cleveland
20/29 276 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Jacksonville
16/31 199 yards 1 TD 2 INT

@ New England
16/25 149 yards 3 TD 2 INT

One could argue that only the Jacksonville game was bad. ;)

Lzen

06-08-2005, 10:52 AM

if memory serves, i believe he started of his 2nd season with and interception like he had in his first year and It got people worried.

he settled down and cut out the Int's and finished strong. People haven't complained since. Except for the people like Gretz who seem to think that since the Green situation turned out well it automatically discounts every complaint ever made about Green ... making them somehow invalid.

the very fact that you,HC,Goatboy are arguing about exactly how long Green's rough start was INSTEAD of the overall point of the discussion pretty much proves it.

I don't totally disagree with you about Gretz. However, I will argue when people make statements about Green that are flat out wrong, IMO.

HC_Chief

06-08-2005, 10:56 AM

I don't totally disagree with you about Gretz. However, I will argue when people make statements about Green that are flat out wrong, IMO.

Yep.

You were totally inaccurate, Laz. Green has had one bad <i>season</i> in KC: his first. He has had rough stretches since, but overall, has been a phenominal addition and well worth the price.

As far as Gretz is concerned, why do you care? You think he's a mouthpiece/shill anyway, right? Just want to rail on him some more? Isn't that basically doing what you despise him for: repeatedly bitching?

Mr. Laz

06-08-2005, 11:00 AM

@ Cleveland
20/29 276 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Jacksonville
16/31 199 yards 1 TD 2 INT

@ New England
16/25 149 yards 3 TD 2 INT

One could argue that only the Jacksonville game was bad. ;)
that's arguable, 5 ints in 3 games?? ... but once again your ignoring the overall point so that you can nitpic about the length of Green's slow start?!?

now who has the sandy mangina?

your pulling a Gretz .. in your neverending defense of every microscopic bit about Green you fail to realize that nobody has been critical of Trent Green in freaking years!!

and even when they were critical they had some very valid points about which to base them on.

typical blind,homer attitude ... ignore reality and keep fighting the good fight, even after the war is long over.

nmt1

06-08-2005, 11:06 AM

typical blind,homer attitude ... ignore reality and keep fighting the good fight, even after the war is long over.

The only one fighting the fight over Green is you. You're the one who can't admit that the Chiefs did something right.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 11:09 AM

The only one fighting the fight over Green is you. You're the one who can't admit that the Chiefs did something right.

http://www.kwest.net/desk-top_publishing/graphics/clip/BULLSEYE.GIF

Gaz

06-08-2005, 11:12 AM

1. It was NOT a bad trade at the time. We uninformed fans only thought it was a bad trade. It is the height of foolishness to claim in hindsight that it was a bad trade. Just silly. Vermiel was certain that it was a good trade. He was right, we were wrong. Good news for the Team. Bad news for those who cannot admit they were wrong about something.

2. Green had terrible stats his first season here. Two seasons is just overzealous hyperbole and can be dismissed as such. We were in Cap Hell and instituting a new system with absolute scrubs at WR. Gee, I wonder why Green’s stats stunk?

3. Once Green started playing well, people were satisfied and have moved on. Well except for lazarus…

xoxo~
Gaz
Made a 180 on Green [when forced to by Trent’s play].

KCTitus

06-08-2005, 11:16 AM

A couple of points...

Gretz is not defending Green, he doesnt have to, rather he's having a good chuckle reminscing about the grumbling that accompanied the trade that happened. Given the amount of protest, I dont think it's stretching to believe that Laz thought that trade was one of the biggest blunders KC's ever made since Peterson drafted Blackledge.

Second, the only one who brought up anything about Green's play the first two years was brought up by Laz himself and as per typical, got that wrong.

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 11:16 AM

Heck, as soon as Kennison got here late 2001 Green started playing better.

htismaqe

06-08-2005, 12:06 PM

I remember the Jacksonville game his 2nd season well. I was ready to see him cut.

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 12:10 PM

I remember the Jacksonville game his 2nd season well. I was ready to see him cut.

Yep. The turning point was the Miami game...

06-08-2005, 01:01 PM

Yep. The turning point was the Miami game...

Agree, I was at that game. Trent was cash money!!! He's been rockin since!

by the way, my other distinct memory from that game was Ricky Williams absolutely obliterating Greg Wesley. They both lowered the shoulders, and well, it wasn't pretty for Greg. However, he returned and had 3 INTs for the game!! Cowboy up! Sure hope we see that Greg Wesley in 2k5.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 01:56 PM

Heck, as soon as Kennison got here late 2001 Green started playing better.

Yep

tk13

06-08-2005, 01:56 PM

Lzen

06-08-2005, 02:00 PM

As anyone who was here during the 2001 season would tell you, I thought it was a GREAT trade! :D And I still do. I don't think we "developed" him really though, I think that started in Washington, and if he hadn't gotten hurt in St. Louis they never would've wanted to dump him...

Agreed. He was with Martz in Washington, right? I do remember before he came here he played in about half the season's games(2000) and had a QB rating of about 100. A lot of people around here were saying that was only due to all the talent around him. That was true but only to a certain extent. As Martz and the Rams have proven, you can't put a schmuck out there and expect it to work. Your QB has to be good for this system to work. FTR, I too, thought it was a good deal.

tk13

06-08-2005, 02:08 PM

Agreed. He was with Martz in Washington, right? I do remember before he came here he played in about half the season's games(2000) and had a QB rating of about 100. A lot of people around here were saying that was only due to all the talent around him. That was true but only to a certain extent. As Martz and the Rams have proven, you can't put a schmuck out there and expect it to work. Your QB has to be good for this system to work. FTR, I too, thought it was a good deal.
In 2000 he played about half a season... not even that really, I believe he just came in a couple times when Warner was hurt (like the game vs. KC) and started 5 or 6 other games.... and still threw for over 2000 yards, 16 TD, 5 INT. That preseason of '99 when Rodney Harrison took his knee out, Green was something like 28-32 passing for the entire preseason... it was a ridiculous completion percentage. I still think he might have done a better job than Warner did.

tk13

06-08-2005, 02:13 PM

There you go....

http://www.s-t.com/daily/01-00/01-30-00/d05sp114.htm

Green had completed 28 of 32 passes in the preseason before he was hurt. And two of those four misses were drops.

Lzen

06-08-2005, 03:15 PM

In 2000 he played about half a season... not even that really, I believe he just came in a couple times when Warner was hurt (like the game vs. KC) and started 5 or 6 other games.... and still threw for over 2000 yards, 16 TD, 5 INT. That preseason of '99 when Rodney Harrison took his knee out, Green was something like 28-32 passing for the entire preseason... it was a ridiculous completion percentage. I still think he might have done a better job than Warner did.

Yup. And I was arguing here that I thought his first season was an aberration because I didn't believe that a guy who had numbers like that in the past could be as bad as his first Chiefs season. Looking back at that I think pretty much everyone has to admit that our receivers were terrible. :shake:

Hammock Parties

06-08-2005, 03:17 PM

If Trent hadn't been hampered by a bad knee and dogshit receivers in 2001, he'd probably have a spotless track record and no one would think he was anything but a top 10 QB.

NewChief

06-08-2005, 06:54 PM

Laz and others "greenbashers":

The reason it's so fun to point out your past bitching is because you were such freaking dickheads about Trent back then. It's fun to make people eat their words and remind them of past idiocy. Crow is a dish best served cold. You'll be eating it for years to come.

the Talking Can

06-08-2005, 07:12 PM

man, I was wrong about Trent...I wanted him cut big time...those were the wars....but I freaking love him now, he's a great QB, he's tough, he plays injured, he throws blocks, he's cool under pressure, he'll make the throw even when he's going to get blasted, and he always says the right thing about team situations...DV was dead on about him...in our system he's perfect

plus, he's had the worst D in the league for 3 years...so he (the whole offense) HAD to score a crap load of points, he never got bailed out by the D when he made a mistake, a luxury other QBs could afford....

Wallcrawler

06-09-2005, 03:48 AM

I wasnt against the trade when it happened.

Grbitch was gone, leaving Todd Collins as the starting QB. I figured if Vermiel said that Trent could get the job done after he had coached him previously, I was all for it.

But that first year, man I thought the Chiefs had really screwed the pooch. 24 interceptions, that was just absolute agony. Especially the 4 INT game against Dungver to Deltha O'Neal.

By the end of that season, I was yelling at the TV for them to put Todd Collins in, because there was no way he could do any worse.

I thought it was a big mistake, but looking back on it, Im really glad we got him. Once he got the knee totally rehabbed and had some receivers that knew what was going on, his play improved tremendously.

The one thing that I DID like about Trent however, was during that horrible season, and all those picks, not once did he ever point any fingers, or start whining about how bad things were. He took all of the blame for the interceptions and the losses, and never pulled a Grbac saying some crap like "I can just throw the ball, I cant run and catch it too." The media would point out during the game that the receivers ran the wrong routes, but you never heard any of that from Green. He always said that he was the one that threw the ball, so the interception was his fault.

He showed great leadership and character, during a really, really rough time in his career, and I think that the rest of those guys on the offense really recognized that, and respected him for it.

Now he's one of the best quarterbacks to ever wear a Chiefs jersey. It would be outstanding if he could keep up his level of performance for another three years. He may have to learn to try to stay in the pocket a little more, and not try to throw so many blocks downfield and try to maintain his physical health though. The body recovers a bit more slowly each year that passes. It would be an absolute shame to lose his passing abilities due to an injury from throwing a block or trying to do too much with the football.