Vermeil Q&A 6/8 - has a woody for Az

[nychief]

Q: Do you anticipate a new receiver coming in from the ones you visited with this week?



DICK VERMEIL: “I don’t know. I think both receivers that were here really enjoyed their stay. I think we’ll make a move, or try to make a move on one of them and see what happens. I had a nice visit with Az (Hakim). When you’ve been as close to a player and gone through the experience that we did together in St. Louis there’s a bond. You’re excited to see him, whether he ends up here or not depends. He’s got other teams that are interested in him and we don’t have any money. But there’s always that possibility.” :deevee:

Q: Is that the guy you want over Freddie Mitchell?

VERMEIL: “There’ll be more than one guy involved in that decision-making process. We’re debating those kinds of things right now.” :mad:

Q: Did you have a chance to speak to Brian Waters?

VERMEIL: “I said hello to him.”

Q: Did you encourage him to stick around?

VERMEIL: “No. If he wanted to practice he’d practice. He’s got some things right now on his mind that he’s got to get settled and we respect that and go on.”

Q: Is it a money thing?

VERMEIL: “No. it’s not. He’s doing what he thinks he has to do right now in a family situation.”

Q: Is today just a visit? Will he stick around?

VERMEIL: “I don’t know. I didn’t ask him.”

Q: Do you like this kind of weather: hot and humid?

VERMEIL: “What I really appreciate is how they respond. They’re working. These kids really work. I’m sure every head coach in the National Football League feels their guys are really working, but boy, these guys are impressive. They are impressive and each day someone else jumps up and startles you. Like Richard Smith today. He got the Gum Award, the OTA Pro Bowl Award, and on the last catch he got the OTA MVP Award. He was catching everything. It’s just great to see kids progress like that.”

Q: Will Shields and Willie Roaf both out again today.

VERMEIL: “Will Shields might practice a couple of times and Willie Roaf is going to work at mini-camp.”

Q: Are you liking what you see with your new defense?

VERMEIL: “I love it. It’s not the new defense it’s the better understanding of it. It’s the growth of the personnel that was here; it’s the addition of the personnel that we brought in including the draft choices. It’s impressive. We will be better. I don’t know how much better. That will be determined how we play when we put pads on. We will be better.”

Q; Do you think the pace has been kind of consistent?

VERMEIL: “Oh yeah. Very consistent. I’ve been very pleased. If you have been out here before I’m sure you’ve noticed. They’re working.”

[the Talking Can]

Hakim makes a lot of sense as a vet #3 WR who can be the #2 if Parker doesn't pan out...he's solid depth in case of injury Dante as well...he knows the offense inside and out...what's not to like?

as long he isn't asking for much..of course....he could a real steal for us...

[KCWolfman]

Hakim makes a lot of sense as a vet #3 WR who can be the #2 if Parker doesn't pan out...he's solid depth in case of injury Dante as well...he knows the offense inside and out...what's not to like?

as long he isn't asking for much..of course....he could a real steal for us...
I see no difference between Hakim and Morton in the stats over the last 3 years. If he saves us a few bucks for other players, I guess it makes sense. But why bring in a new Morton only to give him the excuse of learning a new system for a year instead of offering the current Morton a pay cut?

[Hydrae]

I see no difference between Hakim and Morton in the stats over the last 3 years. If he saves us a few bucks for other players, I guess it makes sense. But why bring in a new Morton only to give him the excuse of learning a new system for a year instead of offering the current Morton a pay cut?


I thought they tried to get Morton to restructure to no avail.

[the Talking Can]

I see no difference between Hakim and Morton in the stats over the last 3 years. If he saves us a few bucks for other players, I guess it makes sense. But why bring in a new Morton only to give him the excuse of learning a new system for a year instead of offering the current Morton a pay cut?

not the point..Morton is gone...given the situation Hakim is a solid vet insurance policy...personally I'm thrilled we're giving Parker the chance...and we did offer Morton a pay cut, he said "**** you"...and, Hakim already knows the system...and....

[KCWolfman]

I thought they tried to get Morton to restructure to no avail.
Then this option would make sense as long as you are paying Hakim the same or less than you were offering Morton.

[B_Ambuehl]

Like Richard Smith today. He got the Gum Award, the OTA Pro Bowl Award, and on the last catch he got the OTA MVP Award. He was catching everything. It’s just great to see kids progress like that.”

Dick was saying the same sort of things about Richard Smith last year. I think this guy deserves some playing time.

[KCWolfman]

not the point..Morton is gone...given the situation Hakim is a solid vet insurance policy...personally I'm thrilled we're giving Parker the chance...and we did offer Morton a pay cut, he said "**** you"...and, Hakim already knows the system...and....
Hakim does not "know" this system at all. This system is geared toward the TE and RB to receive the majority of catches with the WR being basically the wild goose chase with an occassional ball thrown their way. I wouldn't even say the routes are very similar to Vermeil's Rams as we never had an Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt running their legitimate routes.

I bet dollars to donughts that if Hakim is brought in and produces poorly, the excuse from him and Vermeil will be he is learning a new system.

That said, as long as he is signed to the same offer or less than Morton was, it is six of one or half a dozen of another.

[NJ Chief Fan]

why are we taking all of detroits former wrs? is herman moore next?

[wasi]

Hakim does not "know" this system at all. This system is geared toward the TE and RB to receive the majority of catches with the WR being basically the wild goose chase with an occassional ball thrown their way. I wouldn't even say the routes are very similar to Vermeil's Rams as we never had an Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt running their legitimate routes.

I bet dollars to donughts that if Hakim is brought in and produces poorly, the excuse from him and Vermeil will be he is learning a new system.

That said, as long as he is signed to the same offer or less than Morton was, it is six of one or half a dozen of another.

Of course the system is different, the system is different every year really. BUT its the terminology that is the same.. that's what coaches refer too.

[KCJake]

Hakim does not "know" this system at all. This system is geared toward the TE and RB to receive the majority of catches with the WR being basically the wild goose chase with an occassional ball thrown their way. I wouldn't even say the routes are very similar to Vermeil's Rams as we never had an Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt running their legitimate routes.

I bet dollars to donughts that if Hakim is brought in and produces poorly, the excuse from him and Vermeil will be he is learning a new system.

That said, as long as he is signed to the same offer or less than Morton was, it is six of one or half a dozen of another.

VERMEIL: “You can never have too many good football players. I learned that a long time ago. Competition makes other people better as well. Plus, Az Hakim knows the offense, he could run it today.”

I think he "knows" the system

[TRR]

VERMEIL: “You can never have too many good football players. I learned that a long time ago. Competition makes other people better as well. Plus, Az Hakim knows the offense, he could run it today.”

I think he "knows" the system

Plus, Az Hakim knows the offense, he could run it today.”

Wow Wolfmann...That's some ownage right there.

[KCWolfman]

VERMEIL: “You can never have too many good football players. I learned that a long time ago. Competition makes other people better as well. Plus, Az Hakim knows the offense, he could run it today.”

I think he "knows" the system
Again, if he has a season like he did last year, it will be used as an excuse by him and Vermeil.

[Deberg_1990]

of course DV has a hard on for the guy. He drafted and developed Az. Any of us would act the same.

[TRR]

Again, if he has a season like he did last year, it will be used as an excuse by him and Vermeil.

No it won't. The guy has numerous years in the same system. As Vermeil says, he could come in and run it today. Hakim had a decent season as the #3 guy in Detroit. He caught over 30 balls and had over 500 yards receiving with 3 TD's. And he missed 4 games.

[KCWolfman]

No it won't. The guy has numerous years in the same system. As Vermeil says, he could come in and run it today. Hakim had a decent season as the #3 guy in Detroit. He caught over 30 balls and had over 500 yards receiving with 3 TD's. And he missed 4 games.
Again, the virtual same stats as Morton.

[Saulbadguy]

Az is 28. Morton is 34. Thats pretty much the only reason i'd take Az over Morton. Well, other than the fact I just don't like Morton.

[KCWolfman]

Az is 28. Morton is 34. Thats pretty much the only reason i'd take Az over Morton. Well, other than the fact I just don't like Morton.
Again, and again and again and again, IF Hakim will take a paycheck equitable to the offer made to Morton this year, I have no problem with it. If he is offered more, one has to wonder why we didn't keep Morton instead.

[Saulbadguy]

Again, and again and again and again, IF Hakim will take a paycheck equitable to the offer made to Morton this year, I have no problem with it. If he is offered more, one has to wonder why we didn't keep Morton instead.
I would hope he would be making less this year than Morton would have made. However i'd assume in Az's 3rd year (provided he gets the contract), he'd be making more than Morton would this year.

[KCWolfman]

I would hope he would be making less this year than Morton would have made. However i'd assume in Az's 3rd year (provided he gets the contract), he'd be making more than Morton would this year.
Not less than Morton would have made, but rather less or equal to what Morton was offered this year as a renegotation salary.

[Saulbadguy]

Not less than Morton would have made, but rather less or equal to what Morton was offered this year as a renegotation salary.
Correct. Preferably less. When looking at their similar stats, one would hope Az has more "upside" than Morton, being they are 7 years apart in age.

[KCWolfman]

Correct. Preferably less. When looking at their similar stats, one would hope Az has more "upside" than Morton, being they are 7 years apart in age.
I agree, but one would think his upside would have already began, too.

[Saulbadguy]

I agree, but one would think his upside would have already began, too.
True. I was actually a big proponent of signing him instead of Morton. I thought it was a done deal since Vermeil brought him in to the league. :shrug:

I hope we get him this time,

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Parker needs some competition for the number 2 spot. Bo is not enough and as much as I would hate another former Lion WR, Hakim is the best option right now.

[keg in kc]

Hakim "knows" the system in the sense that he knows the terminology used in the playcalling and he knows the routes he'll be asked to run. The focus of the offense, as well as the run/pass mix is obviously different from what he experienced in St. Louis, but the foundation is not. He's also familiar with both Vermeil and Al Saunders (and they're familiar with him).

On the negative side he's on the smaller side, although his bio doesn't read as that much smaller than Parker, at 5'10, 185 vs 5'11, 190. Size isn't the most important requisite for receivers here, anyway, it's break off the line and ability to separate. Which to me is always a question when you have a guy coming off carpet onto grass. I've always questioned his signing in Detroit because, while he's still on carpet, he doesn't really seem to fit the mold of the prototypical WCO receiver. So I'm not surprised he didn't exactly excel there; I never thought it was a very wise signing.

As for the cost, well, we don't have much to spend, so that's kind of moot. He won't be making more than Morton would have, if we can manage to sign him.

All-in-all, I'm not a big Hakim fan, but I'm also not opposed to bringing him in to compete for a job if the price is right. I don't really see a downside.

[CoMoChief]

"Our defense will be better this year. I dont know how much better, but we'll be better."

Didn't DV say that last year before training camp??? Then looked what happened. Does anyone think that he's in doubt about our defense being any good?

[keg in kc]

Does anyone think that he's in doubt about our defense being any good?No, I heard the audio and that wasn't the context at all. He seemed to feel very good about the defense, was trying not to get carried away.

[CoMoChief]

No, I heard the audio and that wasn't the context at all. He seemed to feel very good about the defense, was trying not to get carried away.


Well I just remember him last year saying that he thinks the defense will be better but didnt know how much better, then looked what happened in the season.

[htismaqe]

Well I just remember him last year saying that he thinks the defense will be better but didnt know how much better, then looked what happened in the season.

They're gonna suck because they don't have a MLB.

[C-Mac]

Here is Az stats if anyone would like to see them.

1998 St. Louis Rams 9 4 20 247 12.4 22 1 3 0 15
1999 St. Louis Rams 15 0 36 677 18.8 75 8 8 5 25
2000 St. Louis Rams 16 4 53 734 13.8 80 4 10 3 32
2001 St. Louis Rams 16 2 39 374 9.6 33 3 4 0 21
2002 Detroit Lions 10 10 37 541 14.6 64 3 8 3 25
2003 Detroit Lions 14 12 49 449 9.2 28 4 2 0 27
2004 Detroit Lions 12 5 31 533 17.2 39 3 9 0 24


Mortons stats
1994 Detroit Lions 14 0 3 39 13.0 18 1 0 0 2
1995 Detroit Lions 16 13 44 590 13.4 32 8 12 0 29
1996 Detroit Lions 16 15 55 714 13.0 62 6 10 1 31
1997 Detroit Lions 16 16 80 1057 13.2 73 6 14 3 51
1998 Detroit Lions 16 16 69 1028 14.9 98 2 15 3 48
1999 Detroit Lions 16 12 80 1129 14.1 48 5 15 6 52
2000 Detroit Lions 16 16 61 788 12.9 42 3 11 1 40
2001 Detroit Lions 16 16 77 1154 15.0 76 4 15 3 58
2002 Kansas City Chiefs 14 14 29 397 13.7 30 1 4 0 25
2003 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 50 740 14.8 50 4 10 1 36
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 13 12 55 795 14.5 52 3 10 1 38

[tommykat]

Without reading all the posts..........IMO Az knows the system....He would make a good fit with the Chiefs having played for DV before....he would pick up so fast............that is what the Chiefs need!

[teedubya]

damn Morton was unreal as a Lion and unbelievably shitty comparitively speaking... as a Chief.

[Imon Yourside]

also taking into account that hakim is a lot faster and quicker in his breaks than lazy arse morton.

[KCJake]

I think some of you are missing the point. Looking at last season and comparing what Hakim did in Detroit vs what Morton did in KC is almost useless. Two different players playing in two different offenses. Hakim may have had an "average" year with the Lions, but maybe he will thrive in KC. On the other hand, maybe Morton will be picked-up by another team and catch 90 passes for 1200 yards. Perhaps the Detroit offense didn't utilize Hakim's skills. Maybe the same for Morton in KC.

[KCWolfman]

I think some of you are missing the point. Looking at last season and comparing what Hakim did in Detroit vs what Morton did in KC is almost useless. Two different players playing in two different offenses. Hakim may have had an "average" year with the Lions, but maybe he will thrive in KC. On the other hand, maybe Morton will be picked-up by another team and catch 90 passes for 1200 yards. Perhaps the Detroit offense didn't utilize Hakim's skills. Maybe the same for Morton in KC.
Don't just compare the last season then.

I compared the last three and still came up with almost identical numbers.

[Wallcrawler]

Az Hakim has played in this system before, and been a solid contributor when he was in St Louis. Many of the fumbling issues he had were on special teams, when he would muff a punt here and there, or fumble during a return. He didnt cough the ball up that often when he was playing wideout.


Az Hakim right now is not in high demand. He hasnt produced numbers in detroit to demand a high contract. I dont think Az is looking to break the bank, and probably knows that KC is his best shot at getting his career back on track, having had success under Vermiel in the past.

He WILL be cheaper than Johnnie Morton, because KC doesnt have the cap space to offer him a big deal. Im thinking Vet minimum, or maybe a little bit more, but not anything much higher than that.


Hakim is also a fast receiver that can take the ball the distance should he make someone miss. Morton could not say the same. Johnnie Morton's plays were over very quickly after he made the catch. He didnt have gamebreaking speed, didnt make anyone miss or run over anyone, and dropped more big passes than he caught. His TD numbers could have been a bit higher had those rocks he is using for hands been a bit softer, or if his testicles had dropped giving him the courage to take a hit and make a play.

Hakim is 6 years younger than Morton, faster than Morton, produced better numbers in this offense than Morton, and has a much better attitude than Morton.

Simply put, I dont see how anyone would favor Johnnie Morton over Az Hakim.

He's not going to be making a lot of money should he sign with KC, so it should be a relatively safe venture, should the Chiefs choose to pick him up.

[melbar]

Hakim does not "know" this system at all. This system is geared toward the TE and RB to receive the majority of catches with the WR being basically the wild goose chase with an occassional ball thrown their way. I wouldn't even say the routes are very similar to Vermeil's Rams as we never had an Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt running their legitimate routes.

I bet dollars to donughts that if Hakim is brought in and produces poorly, the excuse from him and Vermeil will be he is learning a new system.

That said, as long as he is signed to the same offer or less than Morton was, it is six of one or half a dozen of another.
I think he "knows" the system in that he is farmilliar with the terminology .our first look is just going to useually be the TE or RB because of the talent level and the fact that they're getting open more often. I'd love it if our guys could get free as often as Bruce and Holt!

[KCFANinNC]

We need a possesion reciever to compliment the speed we have.

We need someone to catch the ball on 3rd down.

[Rukdafaidas]

We need a possesion reciever to compliment the speed we have.

We need someone to catch the ball on 3rd down.
My ultimate lineup this season would be for Bo to step up and perform like he did in his limited rookie year, and grab the #2 spot. Let Parker, Hakim, Smith and Hall split the #3, slot position.
Bo has the most upside of any of our receivers, he's big, tall and fast. He could be a great possession receiver that has the ability to take it all the way. Hakim, Parker and Hall's speed, size and shiftiness would be great out of the slot position, where they can get off the line without being nailed.

[KChiefs1]

Vermeil has a "hard-on" for any of his old players...I guarantee if Isaac Bruce became available his first stop would be the Chiefs.

[BigChiefFan]

Az-Hakim would be a good candidate to bring in, IF we can get him relatively cheap. The thing that concerns me about him is, he is a DOME player and we obviously don't play in a dome.