KChiefs1
06-27-2005, 02:17 PM
http://www.buccaneers.com/news/newsdetail.aspx?newsid=4553
7. Mike from the Burbs of Philly asks:
A. Man -
Mike from Philly again (Bucs in movies question guy). Thanks a lot for your answer and thanks to the rest of the Bucs loyalists out there who helped us out.
Anyway, on to my next question. In a recent Fantasy Football season, the team in my league that finished close to last, had one of the highest total points scored. What it came down to was bad weekly matchups. What I'm getting at is has there ever been a similar event in the NFL? I tried to figure it out myself but figured that you get paid for things like this. Good luck if you choose to tackle this one. If not, thanks again for the attention you paid to my previous question.
Answer Man: Sorry, Mike, I had to edit out that long part of your question about “What’s Happening” (a friend of his remembered a Bucs’ reference by Rerun) for the sake of brevity. I need to save every inch of screen for my own endless ramblings.
Like the question, though. I am more than happy to do the research, though technically I don’t get “paid.” Money is of no use on my planet.
I guess what we’re looking for here is the highest-scoring team, in relation to the rest of the league in that same season, to finish with a losing record. In addition, can we find a team that actually scored more points than it allowed while compiling a losing record?
Well, heck, maybe this won’t take much research at all. To find a team that fits that second set of criteria, we have to flip the calendar all the way back to…2004.
Last year, the Kansas City Chiefs scored 483 points and allowed 435, and still finished with a losing record, at 7-9. You might remember those Chiefs from a visit they paid to Raymond James Stadium, which resulted in a very typical 34-31 outcome in the Buccaneers’ favor. Here’s how you win the points battle but lose more games than you win: You beat one team (Atlanta) 56-10 and another (Denver) 45-17, but you lose two games by 34-31 margins and another by a 24-21 score.
The Chiefs’ 483 points was actually second in the entire NFL, which is amazing when you consider their 7-9 record. The league leaders, the Indianapolis Colts (522 points), finished 12-4 and the team that finished third in scoring behind the Chiefs, San Diego, was also 12-4. On the NFL rankings of points scored in 2004, the next team down the list that had a losing record was Carolina at 13th.
This has been an issue for the Chiefs for a few years, which is why the team concentrated on acquiring defensive players (Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Sammy Knight, Derrick Johnson) this offseason. In 2002, the Chiefs actually led the league in scoring with 467 points (almost 30 per game) while finishing 8-8. Doesn’t fit your question, but it’s an obvious pattern.
But maybe you want a more dramatic example than a 7-9 team, and I guess since I found the first example so quickly I have time for a bit more research. Let’s see…
Ah, the 2001 Colts! That season, Indianapolis finished with a 6-10 record but was second in the league with 413 points. That’s the power of Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison and Dominic Rhodes, I guess. (Yes, Dominic Rhodes. Edge played in only six games that year and had 662 yards, while Rhodes led the team with 1,104.) I might also bring up the 1962 Dallas Cowboys, who tied for second in the league in scoring, 17 points behind the leaders (Green Bay) but finished 5-8-1. In fact, the Cowboys scored the exact same amount of points as the New York Giants, who finished in first place in the Eastern Conference (398 each). The difference was obvious: New York allowed 283 points while Dallas allowed 402, second worst in the league.
Those are really the most dramatic examples I can find in terms of high points and a bad win-loss record, unless you want to count the 3-5-2 Akron Pros of 1922, who not only finished third in the league in scoring (among 18 teams) but had a 146-95 scoring ratio. Or the 1927 Frankford Yellow Jackets, who were 6-9-3 despite finishing third in scoring (it was a distant third, though). I guess you could call your friend’s team the Frankford Yellow Jackets of fantasy football.
While I was going back through the seasons, all the way to 1920, I stumbled upon some interesting teams that didn’t necessarily fit the criteria of your question but were noteworthy in a related sense.
The AFC East division was very interesting in 1974, for instance. The New England Patriots had the most points in the division and a healthy 348-289 scoring differential, but they finished only 7-7, the same record that the Jets achieved with a 279-300 scoring differential. How does that happen? Buffalo was just 264-244 in scoring but was 9-5 and in the playoffs.
Or how about the teams that actually outscored their opponents but ended up with terrible records. Great example: The 1971 Cincinnati Bengals, who scored 284 points and allowed 265 but finished 4-10 and last in the AFC Central. Similarly, the 1963 Detroit Lions scored 326 points and allowed 265 but finished 5-8-1.
Of course, there is one important difference between your friend’s fantasy team and these NFL examples, Mike.
If your friend’s team really was among the highest scoring teams in the league, then it was also one of the better teams, just very unlucky. In other words, by scoring a lot of points, that fantasy team was succeeding in the only way it could; the win-loss record was a product of what its opponents did, and that wasn’t something the team could control.
In the case of the Chiefs, their incredibly high-powered attack was undermined by a defense that tended to give up points almost as quickly. When it worked well, as it did against Atlanta, then a beautiful 56-10 victory emerged. When it didn’t, however, as was the case quite often, then the result was a shootout and the Chiefs often didn’t fire the last bullet. Kansas City had some control over its fate, in other words, while your friend’s team was just unlucky.
**
7. Mike from the Burbs of Philly asks:
A. Man -
Mike from Philly again (Bucs in movies question guy). Thanks a lot for your answer and thanks to the rest of the Bucs loyalists out there who helped us out.
Anyway, on to my next question. In a recent Fantasy Football season, the team in my league that finished close to last, had one of the highest total points scored. What it came down to was bad weekly matchups. What I'm getting at is has there ever been a similar event in the NFL? I tried to figure it out myself but figured that you get paid for things like this. Good luck if you choose to tackle this one. If not, thanks again for the attention you paid to my previous question.
Answer Man: Sorry, Mike, I had to edit out that long part of your question about “What’s Happening” (a friend of his remembered a Bucs’ reference by Rerun) for the sake of brevity. I need to save every inch of screen for my own endless ramblings.
Like the question, though. I am more than happy to do the research, though technically I don’t get “paid.” Money is of no use on my planet.
I guess what we’re looking for here is the highest-scoring team, in relation to the rest of the league in that same season, to finish with a losing record. In addition, can we find a team that actually scored more points than it allowed while compiling a losing record?
Well, heck, maybe this won’t take much research at all. To find a team that fits that second set of criteria, we have to flip the calendar all the way back to…2004.
Last year, the Kansas City Chiefs scored 483 points and allowed 435, and still finished with a losing record, at 7-9. You might remember those Chiefs from a visit they paid to Raymond James Stadium, which resulted in a very typical 34-31 outcome in the Buccaneers’ favor. Here’s how you win the points battle but lose more games than you win: You beat one team (Atlanta) 56-10 and another (Denver) 45-17, but you lose two games by 34-31 margins and another by a 24-21 score.
The Chiefs’ 483 points was actually second in the entire NFL, which is amazing when you consider their 7-9 record. The league leaders, the Indianapolis Colts (522 points), finished 12-4 and the team that finished third in scoring behind the Chiefs, San Diego, was also 12-4. On the NFL rankings of points scored in 2004, the next team down the list that had a losing record was Carolina at 13th.
This has been an issue for the Chiefs for a few years, which is why the team concentrated on acquiring defensive players (Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Sammy Knight, Derrick Johnson) this offseason. In 2002, the Chiefs actually led the league in scoring with 467 points (almost 30 per game) while finishing 8-8. Doesn’t fit your question, but it’s an obvious pattern.
But maybe you want a more dramatic example than a 7-9 team, and I guess since I found the first example so quickly I have time for a bit more research. Let’s see…
Ah, the 2001 Colts! That season, Indianapolis finished with a 6-10 record but was second in the league with 413 points. That’s the power of Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison and Dominic Rhodes, I guess. (Yes, Dominic Rhodes. Edge played in only six games that year and had 662 yards, while Rhodes led the team with 1,104.) I might also bring up the 1962 Dallas Cowboys, who tied for second in the league in scoring, 17 points behind the leaders (Green Bay) but finished 5-8-1. In fact, the Cowboys scored the exact same amount of points as the New York Giants, who finished in first place in the Eastern Conference (398 each). The difference was obvious: New York allowed 283 points while Dallas allowed 402, second worst in the league.
Those are really the most dramatic examples I can find in terms of high points and a bad win-loss record, unless you want to count the 3-5-2 Akron Pros of 1922, who not only finished third in the league in scoring (among 18 teams) but had a 146-95 scoring ratio. Or the 1927 Frankford Yellow Jackets, who were 6-9-3 despite finishing third in scoring (it was a distant third, though). I guess you could call your friend’s team the Frankford Yellow Jackets of fantasy football.
While I was going back through the seasons, all the way to 1920, I stumbled upon some interesting teams that didn’t necessarily fit the criteria of your question but were noteworthy in a related sense.
The AFC East division was very interesting in 1974, for instance. The New England Patriots had the most points in the division and a healthy 348-289 scoring differential, but they finished only 7-7, the same record that the Jets achieved with a 279-300 scoring differential. How does that happen? Buffalo was just 264-244 in scoring but was 9-5 and in the playoffs.
Or how about the teams that actually outscored their opponents but ended up with terrible records. Great example: The 1971 Cincinnati Bengals, who scored 284 points and allowed 265 but finished 4-10 and last in the AFC Central. Similarly, the 1963 Detroit Lions scored 326 points and allowed 265 but finished 5-8-1.
Of course, there is one important difference between your friend’s fantasy team and these NFL examples, Mike.
If your friend’s team really was among the highest scoring teams in the league, then it was also one of the better teams, just very unlucky. In other words, by scoring a lot of points, that fantasy team was succeeding in the only way it could; the win-loss record was a product of what its opponents did, and that wasn’t something the team could control.
In the case of the Chiefs, their incredibly high-powered attack was undermined by a defense that tended to give up points almost as quickly. When it worked well, as it did against Atlanta, then a beautiful 56-10 victory emerged. When it didn’t, however, as was the case quite often, then the result was a shootout and the Chiefs often didn’t fire the last bullet. Kansas City had some control over its fate, in other words, while your friend’s team was just unlucky.
**