I got raped!

[ChiefsOne]

This morning at the gas pumps. Two days ago I was bitching about gas being $1.99, today I stopped to get gas and it was $2.19.

Fuggers keep on gouging us.

[MOhillbilly]

ive got a vintage HUffy ill sell you.

[tyton75]

$2.25 around me

[Simplex3]

Everyone keep buying gas hog SUVs. That will help.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Yeah... last night it was $2.06 here, $2.19 this morning.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Everyone keep buying gas hog SUVs. That will help.
No shit... I'm DESPERATELY looking for a low-mileage Metro. I work in KC (50 miles away from home) about three times a week, and my wife will begin attending classes 5 days a week Aug. 1.

[Simplex3]

No shit... I'm DESPERATELY looking for a low-mileage Metro.
The real solution is to nuke China and India then colonize the Middle East. I mean come on, we REAAAALY want cheap gas, right? We've got to be willing to do what it takes, then.

[oldandslow]

Hurricane Dennis might provide a whole new meaning to gas price increases.

I do love my Prius!!!!

[bobbything]

Everyone keep buying gas hog SUVs. That will help.
But how will mommy ever get her 2 kids and their friends to little league practice?? Surely, you don't expect them to ride in a (gulp) station wagon? Or mini-van? Or, God forbid, get an SUV with decent gas mileage?

[ChiefsOne]

MO ive got a vintage HUffy ill sell you.

Huffy's a great bike....how much?

[jiveturkey]

Get a membership to Costco.

I usually pay 7-15 cents less per gallon than I would at the other stations here in Lenexa.

[Miles]

Get a membership to Costco.

I usually pay 7-15 cents less per gallon than I would at the other stations here in Lenexa.

Sams is usally the same way if you have a membership.

[MOhillbilly]

MO

Huffy's a great bike....how much?


hows your mortal soul sound?

[MOhillbilly]

Told you not to pass out ass upwards on MO's couch.

i peed in your whiskey.

[KCChiefsMan]

$2.29 where I'm at in Lawrence and Shawnee Mission. I live in Lawrence and work in Shawnee Mission 6 or 7 days a week. I'm coughing up about $300-400 per month in gas here

[Dave Lane]

Get used to it its going to get far worse.

Dave

[RaiderH8r]

i peed in your whiskey.
Depending on the brand that could be considered flavor enhancement.

[ChiefsOne]

Get used to it its going to get far worse.

Don't say that you bastard.

[MOhillbilly]

Don't say that you bastard.

think about the huffy ill PM you a contract.

[RedNFeisty]

We can relate here. My bum actually hurts from paying 2.30 a gallon.

[Big Chief Homer]

$2.30 for regular out here.


I stopped driving the SUV and spend more time in the neon now.

[Saulbadguy]

$2.29 where I'm at in Lawrence and Shawnee Mission. I live in Lawrence and work in Shawnee Mission 6 or 7 days a week. I'm coughing up about $300-400 per month in gas here
So why not work in Lawrence? Aren't you a waiter or something?

[Chief Henry]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?

[Miles]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?

About 70 cents.

[Dartgod]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?
If my car ran on bottled water, then this would be relevant.

[MOhillbilly]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?

shit...... only yuppies buy that shit.:harumph:

[Saulbadguy]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?
Less than gasoline.

[Goapics1]

$2.30 fuggin here. I parked the old SUV and driving a V6 Dodge truck. Not good mileage but a helluva lot better than the damn Explorer.

[BIG_DADDY]

2.49 here.

[|Zach|]

I noticed a little jump when I gassed up last night. Sucks...

I wonder if it will get better before it gets worse.

[Donger]

I spoke with some relatives in England yesterday after the bombings. Just for fun, I asked my cousin what he pays for a gallon of gasoline: $5.56.

[Kylo Ren]

Where did you get $1.99. I haven't see that for several weeks. I saw $1.34 this morning.

[Donger]

I noticed a little jump when I gassed up last night. Sucks...

I wonder if it will get better before it gets worse.

It depends. The hurricane about to go into the Gulf is going to drive up prices for at least a week.

[Clint in Wichita]

I can't beleave I'm hearing this "gas is high crap".
Do you buy bottle'd water? How much a gallon is
BOTTLED WATER.....?

I hate this argument. Same goes for the "milk costs more per gallon" argument.

Not only can you easily get by without milk and bottled water, YOU DON'T BUY DOZENS OF GALLONS (OR MORE) OF THE SHIT EACH MONTH!!

Gas costs more than it should, and major oil companies are most likely recording record profits right now.

[Donger]

Gas costs more than it should, and major oil companies are most likely recording record profits right now.

What do you think it should cost?

[alanm]

But how will mommy ever get her 2 kids and their friends to little league practice?? Surely, you don't expect them to ride in a (gulp) station wagon? Or mini-van? Or, God forbid, get an SUV with decent gas mileage?
Make them take the f*cking bus. :)

[Brock]

I hate this argument. Same goes for the "milk costs more per gallon" argument.

Not only can you easily get by without milk and bottled water, YOU DON'T BUY DOZENS OF GALLONS (OR MORE) OF THE SHIT EACH MONTH!!

Gas costs more than it should, and major oil companies are most likely recording record profits right now.

What you say is true, but gas has not come close to keeping up with everything else in terms of inflation. If gas were priced relative to that, we'd be paying 10 dollars per gallon.

[Brock]

Another thing is, you're paying 40 cents per gallon in taxes. Which obviously is BS.

[KCTitus]

Not only can you easily get by without milk and bottled water, YOU DON'T BUY DOZENS OF GALLONS (OR MORE) OF THE SHIT EACH MONTH!!

I'd say that we go through at least 12-16 gallons of milk each month at my home. We have 3 kids.

[Clint in Wichita]

What do you think it should cost?


This is just an arbitrary number, but I don't see why it should cost more than $1.50 per gallon.



In New York City.

[Clint in Wichita]

I'd say that we go through at least 12-16 gallons of milk each month at my home. We have 3 kids.


That's quite a bit of milk. Would 12-16 gallons of gas be enough for the entire family for a month?

[Donger]

This is just an arbitrary number, but I don't see why it should cost more than $1.50 per gallon.



In New York City.

Sorry, but that's just ignorant.

[The Rick]

2.49 here.
Same here in Milwaukee...$2.49.

[DaneMcCloud]

$2.89 here in Hollywood, but we're never giving up the SUV's. I can't go back to a car! When the new Lexus Hybrid SUV comes out next year, we'll get one for my wife. And if Mercedes ever comes out with a hybrid SUV, I'll buy one for sure. But until then, we'll continue getting 8 miles to the gallon in the city and pay whatever it costs.

Dane

[Soupnazi]

I'd say that we go through at least 12-16 gallons of milk each month at my home. We have 3 kids.

Gawd damn! When people say stuff like this, it makes me really rethink the idea of having children at all.

[KCTitus]

That's quite a bit of milk. Would 12-16 gallons of gas be enough for the entire family for a month?

yep...the boys drink it like water.

I guess it depends on each family. I doubt it though...I just got to thinking about your statement about milk and did the math and was a little shocked to come up with that number. It's not uncommon to go through 4 gals @ week. too much IMO.

[Miles]

Another thing is, you're paying 40 cents per gallon in taxes. Which obviously is BS.

Maintained roads are kind of nice.

[KCTitus]

Gawd damn! When people say stuff like this, it makes me really rethink the idea of having children at all.

LOL...sorry didnt mean to scare you. After a while, you get used to the wife racking up 200 dollar grocery bills every couple of weeks.

[Brock]

Maintained roads are kind of nice.

Your naivete is very quaint.

[|Zach|]

I am going to have a glass of milk now.

[Soupnazi]

LOL...sorry didnt mean to scare you. After a while, you get used to the wife racking up 200 dollar grocery bills every couple of weeks.

I had my first "holy shiite" moment a couple weeks ago when we investigated the costs of child care.

:eek:

[KCTitus]

I had my first "holy shiite" moment a couple weeks ago when we investigated the costs of child care.

:eek:

yeah...that's just insanely expensive. I dont know how some parents do it.

[Clint in Wichita]

Sorry, but that's just ignorant.


Then educate poor ignorant me. Why is that not a reasonable number?

[Dartgod]

Where did you get $1.99. I haven't see that for several weeks. I saw $1.34 this morning.
I call BS...

Gas hasn't been anywhere near buck and a half for a long time.

[Miles]

Your naivete is very quaint.

In Texas at least they supposedly allocate most of it to highways and public transit. Though they don't get a portion (something like 15% last I heard) of it back from the federal trust.

[Donger]

Then educate poor ignorant me. Why is that not a reasonable number?

Because the price of gasoline is directly related to the price of crude oil. In fact, over 45% of the price of a gallon of gas is just the price of the crude. At $61 a barrel (and just over 19 gallons of gas being refined from every barrel), you do the math.

And, the price of crude is driven by the markets, and they are driven by various factors including supply/demand, speculation, refining capacity, reserves, et al.

There really is a method to this.

With the tremendous present worldwide demand, with not much reserve procution reserve (combined with maxed out refining capacity), it is simply not realistic to expect anything other than at least $2.00 a gallon now.

[oldandslow]

Excellent post Donger.

You might be interested to know that the Saudi's released a statement yesterday claiming the will not be able to keep up with demand in 10 years or less.

It is the first time they have admitted to it.

Cheap oil will soon be only a memory.

[Saulbadguy]

I am going to have a glass of milk now.
Shatto milk?

[Saulbadguy]

I call BS...

Gas hasn't been anywhere near buck and a half for a long time.
He must have meant $2.34.

[SoCalBronco]

2.19 is nothing. I regularly pay 2.68 a gallon.

[Calcountry]

I just paid $2.61/gallon for 91 octane.

I decided to quit complaining about it and invested in Valero stock ticker VLO on the NYSE.

In the last 2 months its up from 70 bucks to 84 dollars/share.

I fill my tank at Valero now, and it somehow feels a little better. ;)

[ROYC75]

I filled up here on Weds. night, 1.99 cpg. On thursday the price was 2.23 cpg......

It's going to get worst soon from the transportation articles I have read on diesel fuel. Currently here the diesel fuel is 2.46cpg.

[Calcountry]

Because the price of gasoline is directly related to the price of crude oil. In fact, over 45% of the price of a gallon of gas is just the price of the crude. At $61 a barrel (and just over 19 gallons of gas being refined from every barrel), you do the math.

And, the price of crude is driven by the markets, and they are driven by various factors including supply/demand, speculation, refining capacity, reserves, et al.

There really is a method to this.

With the tremendous present worldwide demand, with not much reserve procution reserve (combined with maxed out refining capacity), it is simply not realistic to expect anything other than at least $2.00 a gallon now.Sweet crude is 61 dpb, but sour crude, yes there is such a thing, can be bought at arround 38 dpb. Guess who's refineries have the capability of refining sour feedstocks? Yes, thats right, Valero.

Guess what drives the price of gasoline? The supply and demand for gasoline, from all sources. So if you are Valero, and can make a gallon of gas from feedstocks that are 12 per barrel cheaper than what your competition is making it from, and they have set the price at 2.40 per gallon, and people are paying it, why on EARTH would you want to sell it for 1.99, even though you could and still make a profit? No, you sell it for 2.29 and make a windfall profit.

Thats the kind of stock I want to own.

[Calcountry]

What you say is true, but gas has not come close to keeping up with everything else in terms of inflation. If gas were priced relative to that, we'd be paying 10 dollars per gallon.Minimum wage back in the early 70's was raised to 2.00 per hour under Nixon.

In California, it is 6.75

Gas cost about 70 cents per gallon back then. 6.75/2=3.37

3.37x.70= 2.35 + any marginal increases in taxes since then lets say about .40/gal=2.75/gallon.

Conclusion: gasoline pegged to the most unfortunate workers in our society is just as affordable now as it was back in the early seventies.

Perhaps even more so, because there are many cars that get over 20 mpg available now, some as high as 50 mpg so the total miles driven with that gallon is much higher now than in the 70's, thus making driving more affordable to the poorest stiff in our economy.

For analytical reasons, I like to focus on those that have the highest budgetary constraints with respect to gasoline because those of us who have room in our budgets will pay it anyways. I mean, I am not going to stop going to work just because gas goes up 50 cents per gallon, but the min wage worker, just may drop out of the car and go bicycle on that move. They are the the under ring on the demand curve. IT is when they drop below the curve that affects how high the price can and will go.

But that is just the demand side of the equation.

Supply is an independent function entirely.

[htismaqe]

Yep, I'm still glad I live in an "ethanol" state. Paid $1.98 this morning...

[teedubya]

Ford and Carter should have initiated an alternative energy plan in the 70's... their lack of foresight and bureaucracy loves of oil $, truly is ****ing us now.

[Simplex3]

I had my first "holy shiite" moment a couple weeks ago when we investigated the costs of child care.

:eek:
Other than the cost of child care there is that whole "someone else raising your kids" thing. I'm a fim believer in finding a way for one parent to stay home with them. Otherwise what's the point of having them? You can join Big Brothers/Big Sisters and get a kid to play with for the weekends.

[Soupnazi]

Other than the cost of child care there is that whole "someone else raising your kids" thing. I'm a fim believer in finding a way for one parent to stay home with them. Otherwise what's the point of having them? You can join Big Brothers/Big Sisters and get a kid to play with for the weekends.

You mean other than having someone to clean up your poopy diapers when you're 90?

[Hydrae]

Other than the cost of child care there is that whole "someone else raising your kids" thing. I'm a fim believer in finding a way for one parent to stay home with them. Otherwise what's the point of having them? You can join Big Brothers/Big Sisters and get a kid to play with for the weekends.


:thumb:

My wife stays at home with the kids. She works as a crossing guard at one of the elementary schools nearby which lets her have money of her own and gets her out of the house each day. When the kids have no school, she has no work.

[Hydrae]

Because the price of gasoline is directly related to the price of crude oil. In fact, over 45% of the price of a gallon of gas is just the price of the crude. At $61 a barrel (and just over 19 gallons of gas being refined from every barrel), you do the math.

And, the price of crude is driven by the markets, and they are driven by various factors including supply/demand, speculation, refining capacity, reserves, et al.

There really is a method to this.

With the tremendous present worldwide demand, with not much reserve procution reserve (combined with maxed out refining capacity), it is simply not realistic to expect anything other than at least $2.00 a gallon now.


I understand what you are trying to say but you need to check your math. If you get (just for ease of numbers) 20 gallons of gas out of a barrel that cost you $60.00, that will cost you $3.00 a gallon. Surely you are not saying that they are charging us less than it costs them?

[Calcountry]

I understand what you are trying to say but you need to check your math. If you get (just for ease of numbers) 20 gallons of gas out of a barrel that cost you $60.00, that will cost you $3.00 a gallon. Surely you are not saying that they are charging us less than it costs them?More than likely, they refine some of their gas from cheaper feedstocks than the spot of 60 for sweet crude, although I am not sure as to exact percent of the barrel that is refined into gas. I believe there are 42 gallons in a barrel of oil. Of that roughly half can be made into gasoline, so I believ the 19 gallon thing is pretty accurate. However, what you fail to include in your analysis, is what they get paid for the plastic, motor oil and other distillates from the barrel of oil. They don't just throw the other half of the barrel away once they extract the gasoline from it. So the cost should be less than 3.00 per gallon of gasoline.

:D

[Donger]

More than likely, they refine some of their gas from cheaper feedstocks than the spot of 60 for sweet crude, although I am not sure as to exact percent of the barrel that is refined into gas. I believe there are 42 gallons in a barrel of oil. Of that roughly half can be made into gasoline, so I believ the 19 gallon thing is pretty accurate. However, what you fail to include in your analysis, is what they get paid for the plastic, motor oil and other distillates from the barrel of oil. They don't just throw the other half of the barrel away once they extract the gasoline from it. So the cost should be less than 3.00 per gallon of gasoline.

:D

Correct.

One 42gal gallon barrel of crude oil yields:

19.5 gallons of gasoline
9.2 gallons of distillate fuel oil (diesel fuel and home-heating oil)
4.1 gallons of kerosene-type jet fuel
2.3 gallons of residual fuel oil (used in industry and marine transportation and for election power generation)
1.9 gallons liquefied refinery gases
1.9 gallons still gas
1.8 gallons coke
1.3 gallons asphalt and road oil
1.2 gallons petrochemical feedstock
0.5 gallons lubricants
0.2 gallons kerosene
0.3 gallons other (don't ask me, I have no clue :) )

* The total volume of products made is 2.2 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil, representing a processing gain.

[ROYC75]

$70 a Barrel?
Friday, July 08, 2005 3:01 PM EDT More News
That's the feeling of at least one economist as worries about Hurricane Dennis' impact on US oil production in the Gulf pushed the price of a barrel over $62 yesterday, before falling sharply in the wake of the terrorist attacks in London. Last year oil prices jumped as much as $10 a barrel in the month after Hurricane Ivan hit the U.S. With Dennis at Category 4 strength on the Saffir - Simpson scale as it batters Cuba, oil platforms in the Gulf are being evacuated. According to Bloomberg.com Gerard Burg at National Australia Bank thinks if Dennis causes damage similar to that caused by Ivan, the price of a barrel of crude could soar past $70 and approach $80.

[Donger]

$70 a Barrel?
Friday, July 08, 2005 3:01 PM EDT More News
That's the feeling of at least one economist as worries about Hurricane Dennis' impact on US oil production in the Gulf pushed the price of a barrel over $62 yesterday, before falling sharply in the wake of the terrorist attacks in London. Last year oil prices jumped as much as $10 a barrel in the month after Hurricane Ivan hit the U.S. With Dennis at Category 4 strength on the Saffir - Simpson scale as it batters Cuba, oil platforms in the Gulf are being evacuated. According to Bloomberg.com Gerard Burg at National Australia Bank thinks if Dennis causes damage similar to that caused by Ivan, the price of a barrel of crude could soar past $70 and approach $80.

I think we'll probably see mid to high 60s before the storm is over.

[Calcountry]

$70 a Barrel?
Friday, July 08, 2005 3:01 PM EDT More News
That's the feeling of at least one economist as worries about Hurricane Dennis' impact on US oil production in the Gulf pushed the price of a barrel over $62 yesterday, before falling sharply in the wake of the terrorist attacks in London. Last year oil prices jumped as much as $10 a barrel in the month after Hurricane Ivan hit the U.S. With Dennis at Category 4 strength on the Saffir - Simpson scale as it batters Cuba, oil platforms in the Gulf are being evacuated. According to Bloomberg.com Gerard Burg at National Australia Bank thinks if Dennis causes damage similar to that caused by Ivan, the price of a barrel of crude could soar past $70 and approach $80.I can't wait for 100 dollar a barrel oil.

The environmentalists should be happy about this development, except for Big Oil gettin rich. You see, they wanted all that money for themselves in the form of greenie taxes.

[Goapics1]

the price of a barrel of crude could soar past $70 and approach $80.
Phuk me! We're doomed!

[MOhillbilly]

Damn Chiefsone you are gettin jewed i paid 2.17 on N Kansas Exp.

[Saulbadguy]

Damn Chiefsone you are gettin jewed i paid 2.17 on N Kansas Exp.
Hey now..watch it. :p

[Calcountry]

Phuk me! We're doomed!No, just appreciate your ability to put fuel in your automobile, check your air pressure, tune the thing up, and don't spin those hemi powered tires no more.

[Clint in Wichita]

Because the price of gasoline is directly related to the price of crude oil. In fact, over 45% of the price of a gallon of gas is just the price of the crude. At $61 a barrel (and just over 19 gallons of gas being refined from every barrel), you do the math.

And, the price of crude is driven by the markets, and they are driven by various factors including supply/demand, speculation, refining capacity, reserves, et al.

There really is a method to this.

With the tremendous present worldwide demand, with not much reserve procution reserve (combined with maxed out refining capacity), it is simply not realistic to expect anything other than at least $2.00 a gallon now.


Your argument sounds good, but I have 2 questions:

1. What factors have changed in the last 6 months to cause prices to jump like they have?

2. Why do major oil companies record record profits every time there is a spkie in prices at the pump?

My opinion is that every time prices jump like this, there is a penis lodged in consumers' collective rectum. Whether it's OPEC, the petroleum industry, our own government, or a group ass-raping by more then one of them, they've got stretched wallets, and we've got stretched starfish.

[Clint in Wichita]

I can't wait for 100 dollar a barrel oil.

The environmentalists should be happy about this development, except for Big Oil gettin rich. You see, they wanted all that money for themselves in the form of greenie taxes.


Your ass will probably be on a city bus if oil hits $100 a barrell.

[MOhillbilly]

Hey now..watch it. :p

well you cant call it hillbillied now can ya?ROFL

[KCTitus]

found this on Cato.org...with regard to oil prices:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3947

Oil Prices: Cause and Effect

by Alan Reynolds

Alan Reynolds is a senior fellow with the Cato Institute and a nationally syndicated columnist.

Why is crude oil so expensive? Why does it matter?

The price of crude didn't rise from $12 in early 1999 to nearly $60 because the world suddenly ran out of oil. On the contrary, the world supply of petroleum has risen 10 percent since then, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA), from 65.8 million barrels a day in 1999 to 72.5 million in 2004. Cambridge Energy Research Associates estimates global oil production capacity will increase at least twice that rapidly over the next five years -- by as much as 16 million barrels a day by 2010.

Oil prices did not quintuple after 1999 because Americans suddenly switched from mini-cars to SUVs. On the contrary, if all passenger cars, pickups and SUVs were replaced with bicycles, the United States would still import a lot of oil.

We import nearly 58 percent of all petroleum, yet only 45 percent of each barrel is used to produce gasoline, and a significant portion of that gasoline is used in delivery vans and taxis. Commuter and leisure driving accounts for little more than 40 percent of the oil we consume -- far less than the amount we import. The rest of each barrel of crude is used for heating oil and diesel fuel for trucks, busses, farm machinery and ships (23 percent), petrochemicals (17 percent), jet fuel (9 percent), asphalt (4 percent) and propane (4 percent).

U.S. industries use petroleum to produce the synthetic fiber used in textile mills making carpeting and fabric from polyester and nylon. U.S. tire plants use petroleum to make synthetic rubber. Other U.S. industries use petroleum to produce plastic, drugs, detergent, deodorant, fertilizer, pesticides, paint, eyeglasses, heart valves, crayons, bubble gum and Vaseline.

When the cost of oil goes up, production costs are increased and profits reduced for industries that depend on oil. Producer costs -- not consumer gasoline costs -- are the reason high oil prices threaten to shrink industrial production of goods directly affected and also of energy-intensive products such as aluminum and paper. This threat affects all new and old industrial economies, whether those nations import or export oil. The United States may be least vulnerable because of superior energy efficiency and a larger service sector.

Of these many uses of oil in industry and commercial transportation, gasoline demand among ordinary consumers may be the least sensitive to price. That is why the relatively invariable demand of motorists cannot possibly account for the wide cyclical variations we observe in crude prices. It's the other 60 percent of the barrel that matters most, at the margin.

The U.S. index of industrial production peaked at 116.4 in June 2000 and then fell to 109.1 by December 2001; the price of West Texas crude simultaneously fell from $32 to $19. U.S. industrial demand for petrochemicals declined, and so did the related need for fuel used to transport industrial supplies and products.

Similar effects were magnified worldwide. Falling industrial production in any region has the same effect on oil prices, so crude fell from $25 to $12 in the wake of the Asian currency crisis of 1997-98.

It is commonplace to blame rising oil prices on industrial expansion in China, but that is a misleading exaggeration. Long before China's rediscovery of capitalism, earlier Asian Tigers accounted for a rising share of world petroleum demand. From 1978 to 2004, oil consumption rose 28.6 percent in the world but only 8.9 percent in the United States. That difference was exemplified by a 344 percent increase in South Korea's oil demand.

The United States still accounts for 25 percent of world oil consumption, but a declining 10 percent share of oil production. China accounts for 8 percent of consumption and 4 percent of production. China looms much larger, however, in terms of the incremental increase in demand. The IEA estimates China will account for 25.8 percent of this year's increase in demand and the United States will account for 14.6 percent. This leaves nearly 60 percent of the year's added demand coming from the rest of the world. Or maybe not.

Just as oil market pundits typically ignore the 60 percent of petroleum not going into passenger cars, they likewise ignores the 60 percent of incremental oil demand not coming from China and the United States.

Recall how regional industrial contraction collapsed the oil price in 1998 and 2001, then examine the last pages of The Economist to see what happened to industrial production over the latest 12 months. U.S. industrial production looks strong -- up 2.7 percent in May -- but that same figure a year earlier was up 4.8 percent. For Japan, industrial production is up only 0.6 percent, though a year ago it was up 8.3 percent.

Countries that were experiencing industrial increases of 12 percent to 22 percent a year ago -- such as Taiwan, Brazil, South Korea and Singapore -- are now up only 1 percent to 4 percent. For the Euro area, industrial production is down 0.1 percent. For Britain -- which exports oil -- it is down 1.9 percent. For Mexico -- which exports oil -- it is down 4.7 percent.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) tracks all major economies plus one mid-sized economy (Mexico) that accounts for 13.7 percent of U.S. exports. A six-month trend of the OECD leading indicators was up 7.5 percent at the start of 2004, but has since fallen to minus 0.5 percent this April.

Want the bad news first? High oil prices have already slowed industrial production in many countries, even China and the United States to a lesser extent. Leading indicators point to wider and deeper trouble ahead.

The good news is that oil prices have proven very sensitive to industrial production, so this problem is self-limiting. Cost-squeezed industrial firms -- not necessarily in the United States -- will be reducing production and thereby reducing world oil demand and prices.

Meanwhile, some clueless senators are oddly eager to push the Chinese currency up, which would make oil cheaper for Chinese industry and more expensive at home. The White House seems oddly eager to enact more tax-financed subsidies for those who buy Japanese hybrid cars, German diesels and ethanol made from corn or sugar. It is difficult to imagine a more irrelevant "energy policy."

The only policy that might actually shrink the "fear premium" in oil prices (estimated at $10 to $20) is to use the strategic petroleum reserve strategically -- to quell panic during hurricanes, strikes, wars and the like. But the United States has instead imported oil to add to the reserve whenever oil prices were unusually high (1981 to 1985 and now) and sold oil when the price was low (1997).

Nobody in Washington shows the slightest awareness of the global nature of the oil market, of the fact that industrial damage from high oil prices has nothing to do with whether a country imports or exports oil, or even the fact that there is a crucial two-way linkage between worldwide industrial production and worldwide oil prices. When it comes to causes and effects of high oil prices, nobody in Washington shows much interest in logic or facts. It might be sad if it wasn't so pathologically pathetic.

This article originally appeared on Townhall.com on June 23, 2005

[saturnknts]

i'm with clint on this one ya'll.

1. bush wont do anything for us, he has too much interest at stake in his personal dealings.

2. they will raise the price for any excuse.

3. they are gorging themselves on all these increases. production costs have not risen one iota.

4. who caused the refining shortage, maybe themselves, awww how convinient.

5. anyone who believes the propaganda they give deserves the price increase. the rest of us do not.

[KCTitus]

4. who caused the refining shortage, maybe themselves, awww how convinient.

pass the tinfoil please...the last refinery built in the US was 32 years ago. You think gas consumption might have increased just a smidge since then?

[Donger]

Your argument sounds good, but I have 2 questions:

1. What factors have changed in the last 6 months to cause prices to jump like they have?

2. Why do major oil companies record record profits every time there is a spkie in prices at the pump?

My opinion is that every time prices jump like this, there is a penis lodged in consumers' collective rectum. Whether it's OPEC, the petroleum industry, our own government, or a group ass-raping by more then one of them, they've got stretched wallets, and we've got stretched starfish.

1. Mostly drastically increased demand (happens every year at this time), but production has not increased significantly, nor has refining capacity. China and India's demand has increased dramatically over the last few years.

Also, we've not built a new refinery in this country since the 1970s, and have actually closed a bunch. The inevitable is obvious.

2. You sort of answered your own question. Even though the price of crude has gone up significantly, the refining costs have not. Therefore, their profits are higher.

Here's a good link: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/oil_gas/primer/primer.htm

[saturnknts]

pass the tinfoil please...the last refinery built in the US was 32 years ago. You think gas consumption might have increased just a smidge since then?

then why havent they built anymore?

[Donger]

1. bush wont do anything for us, he has too much interest at stake in his personal dealings.

You have proof for this assertion, I take it?

2. they will raise the price for any excuse.

Who is 'they?'

3. they are gorging themselves on all these increases. production costs have not risen one iota.

Well, we do live a capitalist country, don't we?

4. who caused the refining shortage, maybe themselves, awww how convinient.

Partly the oil companies not wanting to recoup the incredible amount of money that is required to build a new refinery, let alone all the red tape they would have to clear even if they did.

5. anyone who believes the propaganda they give deserves the price increase. the rest of us do not.

Again, who is 'they?'

[Clint in Wichita]

pass the tinfoil please...the last refinery built in the US was 32 years ago. You think gas consumption might have increased just a smidge since then?

Do you really think that, with all their capital and influence, Mobil-Exxon (for example) couldn't get a single refinery built in all that time?

IMO either the shortage of refining capacity has been greatly exaggerated, or has been caused intentionally to keep prices up.

[htismaqe]

then why havent they built anymore?

Because George Bush hates you.

[KCTitus]

then why havent they built anymore?

First, EPA wont let them. It's about as easy to build as a Nuclear Energy plant.
Second, A lot of people say NIMBY.

I wont even get into the EPA regulations on the number of different types of gas that have to be refined and shipped to different parts of the country during the summer months to reduce pollution.

[Clint in Wichita]

1. Mostly drastically increased demand (happens every year at this time), but production has not increased significantly, nor has refining capacity. China and India's demand has increased dramatically over the last few years.

Also, we've not built a new refinery in this country since the 1970s, and have actually closed a bunch. The inevitable is obvious.

2. You sort of answered your own question. Even though the price of crude has gone up significantly, the refining costs have not. Therefore, their profits are higher.

Here's a good link: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/oil_gas/primer/primer.htm


The demand couldn't possibly have increased that much in the last 6 months.

[KCTitus]

Do you really think that, with all their capital and influence, Mobil-Exxon (for example) couldn't get a single refinery built in all that time?

IMO either the shortage of refining capacity has been greatly exaggerated, or has been caused intentionally to keep prices up.

Do I really think what? that there hasnt been a refinery built in 32 years? Yes. I do think that because it's fact.

As for their 'influence', obviously it's worth jack squat if they cant get it done. EPA restrictions among other govt bureacracy make it cheaper to import refined gas.

I dont subscribe to the silly conspiracy theories, I firmly believe that if there were a cheaper way to refine gas and get it to the consumer, the oil companies would do it.

[gblowfish]

As Bobby Knight would say (as a stand in for George W The Shrub):
"You might as well lay back and enjoy it!"

The bottleneck is refining. We had a thread about this a couple weeks ago. The oil industry has created the situation on purpose, they call it "the golden age of refining." Line up and pump, suckers.

[ChiefsOne]

MO Damn Chiefsone you are gettin jewed i paid 2.17 on N Kansas Exp.

I'm not driving way the hell up there to save 2¢, BTW it would cost more repair the vandalism done to my vehicle from the Northsiders!

[Donger]

Do you really think that, with all their capital and influence, Mobil-Exxon (for example) couldn't get a single refinery built in all that time?

Yes, they could. It would be an enormous hassle (dealing with environmental regulations, "Not in MY backyard!!" stuff, etc. It would also be extremely expensive and they would not see profits from a new refinery for years, even if it were built.

BTW, one of Bush's proposal in the energy bill is to build new refineries on abandoned/closed military bases to avoid the NIMBY argument.

IMO either the shortage of refining capacity has been greatly exaggerated, or has been caused intentionally to keep prices up.

Well, not only have we not built any new ones since the 70s, we've lost something like 50% of the refineries since then. Of course, our demand has increased significantly during that time. Like I said, it's inevitable.

[KCTitus]

The bottleneck is refining. We had a thread about this a couple weeks ago. The oil industry has created the situation on purpose, they call it "the golden age of refining." Line up and pump, suckers.

An interesting theory, however, if that were the case, I think they would have been sued for collusion or monopolistic practices, etc...

[saturnknts]

you (chiefsplanet poster's who responded to my post, thank you donger for making me be more specific) are all so right. i guess i should have kept my finger off the enter key.

sorry for participating.

i am no conspiracy person here. believe what you want.

[Clint in Wichita]

Do I really think what? that there hasnt been a refinery built in 32 years? Yes. I do think that because it's fact.

No, re-read the question. Take your time.

I asked if you thought oil companiescouldn't get a single refinery built in all that time.

Of course they didn't, obviously.

I think that if they were determined to build a new refinery, they could buy every vote in Congress to get it done.

[KChiefsQT]

This morning at the gas pumps. Two days ago I was bitching about gas being $1.99, today I stopped to get gas and it was $2.19.

Fuggers keep on gouging us.


Must be nice... I can't remember the last time I got gas for a measly $2.19. Believe me, it could be worse, much worse!!!!

[Donger]

The demand couldn't possibly have increased that much in the last 6 months.

Don't forget that crude oil is a commodity, and the price is driven by the markets, NOT the oil companies directly.

[Donger]

you (chiefsplanet poster's who responded to my post, thank you donger for making me be more specific) are all so right. i guess i should have kept my finger off the enter key.

sorry for participating.

i am no conspiracy person here. believe what you want.

No need to apologize. I'd actually like to hear your responses, if you have them.

[saturnknts]

No need to apologize. I'd actually like to hear your responses, if you have them.

nope. i should have realized before i decided to post that this arguement happens every day across this country and that nothing will be solved. not one person will change their mind. to each his own.

[Clint in Wichita]

Don't forget that crude oil is a commodity, and the price is driven by the markets, NOT the oil companies directly.


Yet another link in the "lets-bang-the consumers'-arse" chain.

[Donger]

Ford and Carter should have initiated an alternative energy plan in the 70's... their lack of foresight and bureaucracy loves of oil $, truly is ****ing us now.

I suppose it would have been nicer to say, "Sorry, but that's just talking out of your ass?"

[Donger]

Yet another link in the "lets-bang-the consumers'-arse" chain.

I take it you don't support capitalism?

[MOhillbilly]

MO

I'm not driving way the hell up there to save 2¢, BTW it would cost more repair the vandalism done to my vehicle from the Northsiders!


only if you go east or west.

[KCTitus]

I think that if they were determined to build a new refinery, they could buy every vote in Congress to get it done.

Right, as we've witnessed that grand plan put into action over the last 30 years.

[KCTitus]

you (chiefsplanet poster's who responded to my post, thank you donger for making me be more specific) are all so right. i guess i should have kept my finger off the enter key.

sorry for participating.

i am no conspiracy person here. believe what you want.

Dont be sorry, hopefully you learned something today if you truly are not into conspiracies.

[saturnknts]

Dont be sorry, hopefully you learned something today if you truly are not into conspiracies.

i learned you know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help us all.

[oldandslow]

Ali..

Carter was the last President to truly talk about the energy crisis. He talked about sacrifice, conservation, alternative energy.

He had a vision of what the future would be like if we did not come up with a responsible energy policy and we are getting ready to embark upon it...

unfortunately the American people disagreed.

We will pay the price.

[Coach]

2.30 around here.

[htismaqe]

Ali..

Carter was the last President to truly talk about the energy crisis. He talked about sacrifice, conservation, alternative energy.

He had a vision of what the future would be like if we did not come up with a responsible energy policy and we are getting ready to embark upon it...

unfortunately the American people disagreed.

We will pay the price.

Jimmy Carter...visionary.

ROFL

[carlos3652]

All of you need to stop your f'n whining.... I used to pay $8.50 a gallon in Argentina 6 years ago (when $1 - 1 Peso). Im not sure what its at right now, but Im sure its gone up to close to $20... (f'n taxes, inflation and currency ) $1 - 3.30 Peso...

The United States is one of the f'n cheapest place to buy gas other than Venezuela and Middle east..., but somehow you can complain that its "really expensive".

It might not be as cheap as it was, but man you guys take a lot of things for granted... and Gasoline is one of them...

[Ultra Peanut]

This morning at the gas pumps. Two days ago I was bitching about gas being $1.99, today I stopped to get gas and it was $2.19.

Fuggers keep on gouging us.Yes, because overpaying for something voluntarily is totally analogous to a life-changing, usually scarring event in which you're forcibly violated sexually.

[Ultra Peanut]

Jimmy Carter...visionary.

ROFLIf only he and George Washington Carver had been allowed to pool their resources and come up with a peanut-based fuel alternative...

[carlos3652]

All prices updated May, 2004. (1 year old) CNN MONEY

Nation City Price
UK TEESIDE $5.64
HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62
UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56
UK READING $5.56
UK NORWICH $5.54
GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29
DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08
NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07
NORWAY OSLO $4.93
ITALY ROME $4.86
TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85
PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80
KOREA SEOUL $4.71
SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56
KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53
AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50
CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32
JAPAN TOKYO $3.84
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63
CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57
TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47
GEORGIA TBILISI $2.31
LAOS VIENTIANE $1.66
THAILAND BANGKOK $1.60
CHINA TIANJIN $1.54
CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48
RUSSIA MOSCOW $1.45
KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36
KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35
TAJIKISTAN DUSHANBE $1.32
AZERBAIJAN BAKU $1.15
VENEZUELA CARACAS $0.14

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/price.html

[Simplex3]

Oh yeah, Jimmy Carter. ROFL

"Of course this election was above board. So what if one of the candidates was out in public endorsing the other one. That's just sound politics."

[Miles]

All prices updated May, 2004. (1 year old) CNN MONEY

Nation City Price
KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36
KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/price.html

We got cheap gas!
http://www.hooverdust.com/daily/archive/images/borat.jpg

[Ultra Peanut]

We got cheap gas!

<img src="http://www.webgeordie.co.uk/borat/images/usahobbies06.jpg" style="width: 200px; height: 150px; border: 0" alt="" align="right" />

"I do a picture, only small, of the Tishnik Massacre. Where many Uzbeks... crushed!"
"How did you feel when you drew this?"
"Very proud!"
"I am just listening with sadness for your people."
"No, it is not sad. It is us that do the kill!"

"If you give me this job, can I put a camera in the lady toilet please?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"It, it, that, uh, is against the law."
"If I work here, can I work in a room with a light, please?"
"Yes. Everybody will have a light."
"GREAT, SUCCESS!"

[carlos3652]

<img src="http://www.webgeordie.co.uk/borat/images/usahobbies06.jpg" style="width: 200px; height: 150px; border: 0" alt="" align="right" />

"I do a picture, only small, of the Tishnik Massacre. Where many Uzbeks... crushed!"
"How did you feel when you drew this?"
"Very proud!"
"I am just listening with sadness for your people."
"No, it is not sad. It is us that do the kill!"

"If you give me this job, can I put a camera in the lady toilet please?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"It, it, that, uh, is against the law."
"If I work here, can I work in a room with a light, please?"
"Yes. Everybody will have a light."
"GREAT, SUCCESS!"


My sister is prostitute... she is very good... you should try...

[Miles]

My sister is prostitute... she is very good... you should try...

She was voted by Almaty Chamber of Commerce as best sex in mouth. She is number 2, or 3, best prostitute in the country of Kazakhstan.

[Saulbadguy]

<img src="http://www.webgeordie.co.uk/borat/images/usahobbies06.jpg" style="width: 200px; height: 150px; border: 0" alt="" align="right" />

"I do a picture, only small, of the Tishnik Massacre. Where many Uzbeks... crushed!"
"How did you feel when you drew this?"
"Very proud!"
"I am just listening with sadness for your people."
"No, it is not sad. It is us that do the kill!"

"If you give me this job, can I put a camera in the lady toilet please?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"It, it, that, uh, is against the law."
"If I work here, can I work in a room with a light, please?"
"Yes. Everybody will have a light."
"GREAT, SUCCESS!"
My favorite one is where he goes to the baseball game.

"USA! USA! I LIKE SEX!"

"**** you!" Grandpa: "No no no..we don't use profanity here!"

[Calcountry]

Your ass will probably be on a city bus if oil hits $100 a barrell.No, my Honda is paid for.

[Ultra Peanut]

"My wife is dead. She die in field. But I have a new wife... she nice! I like her. More than the one before. High Five!"

Verse
In my country there is problem
And that problem is transport
It take very very long
Because Kazakhstan is big

Chorus 1
Throw transport down the well (repeat line)
So my country can be free (repeat line)
We must make travel easy (repeat line)
Then we have a big party (repeat line)

Verse 2
In my country there is problem
And that problem is the Jew
They take everybody money
And they never give it back

Chorus 2
Throw the Jew down the well (repeat line)
So my country can be free (repeat line)
You must grab him by his horns (repeat line)
Then we have a big party (repeat line)

Verse 3
If you see the Jew coming
You must be careful of his teeth
You must grab him by his money
And I tell you what to do

(Repeat Chorus 2 twice)

[Frazod]

There's a BP station in downtown Chicago that always has the highest gas prices in the area. Yesterday, the price for regular was $2.75 a gallon. That's more than 50 cents a gallon more than what the stations by my house charge.

F#cking thieves.

[chiefs4me]

$2.29 for my diesel fuel......:shake:

[Skip Towne]

There's a BP station in downtown Chicago that always has the highest gas prices in the area. Yesterday, the price for regular was $2.75 a gallon. That's more than 50 cents a gallon more than what the stations by my house charge.

F#cking thieves.
I had two service stations in the early 70's and I agree the oil companies are thieves. But there is another reason why the downtown station's prices are higher than the one by your house. Location, location and location. What is the land worth at the Chicago site? The one by your house? Quite a difference I'd bet. The downtown place has to be very profitable to justify it using that prime real estate.

[Frazod]

I had two service stations in the early 70's and I agree the oil companies are thieves. But there is another reason why the downtown station's prices are higher than the one by your house. Location, location and location. What is the land worth at the Chicago site? The one by your house? Quite a difference I'd bet. The downtown place has to be very profitable to justify it using that prime real estate.

I understand that. Everything's more expensive downtown, and taxes in Crook - I mean Cook - County are much higher than where I live (DuPage County).

Of course, not everybody who lives in Chicago is rich and drives a Lexus. Prices in regular neighborhoods aren't all that much lower.

[Skip Towne]

A buddy and I worked at a service station at Armour (35th) and Main in KC in the 60's. (Across the street from Davey's Uptown Ramblers Club). It was owned by Phillips Petroleum Company, not exactly small potatoes. Today it is a parking lot. I had to send my buddy a photo of it for him to believe it. The only conclusion I can come to is it produces more revenue as a parking lot than it did as a service station.

[Ultra Peanut]

Liar! I bet he really buys litres of petrol. You can't fool me!"Spot on, mate!"

[Over-Head]

Went up again last week.
This morning I paid $1.039 a fuggen liter! :banghead:

There's 3.8L in a US gallon = $3.95
And four in a Canadian = $4.156 a f*cking galon folks!!! :cuss:

[Fire Me Boy!]

There's a RUMOR that prices in the area will jump another 30 cents this weekend... but this is just a rumor, not necessarily any truth to it... of course, on the flip side, not necessarily NOT true either.

[JOhn]

Paid $2.26 tonight for fuel, and that's the cheapest here in Cody. When you fill up everyday it adds up quick. :cuss: