Our D is Better. Realize It Or Not!

[petegz28]

Sure we looked like crap, it was the first preseason game. But I also so DJ all over the field. I saw Simms getting a push. I saw Dex bust a play in the end zone and I saw Surtain shut down his side of the field. No Kendrell Bell. Knight and Wesley need to tighten it up and they will.

1997 preseason the Cardinals kicked our ass. Think about that for a bit before you jump ship.

[the Talking Can]

um, people are discussing the game....where's this "ship jumping" to which you refer?

[petegz28]

um, people are discussing the game....where's this "ship jumping" to which you refer?


Go read the game thread.

[Garcia Bronco]

Sure we looked like crap, it was the first preseason game. But I also so DJ all over the field. I saw Simms getting a push. I saw Dex bust a play in the end zone and I saw Surtain shut down his side of the field. No Kendrell Bell. Knight and Wesley need to tighten it up and they will.

1997 preseason the Cardinals kicked our ass. Think about that for a bit before you jump ship.

How did 97 end up for the Chiefs?

[Raiderhater]

How did 97 end up for the Chiefs?


Better than '04 ended.

[kcjayhawks5]

if you call that better than we are in for a long season

[KC Dan]

if you call that better than we are in for a long season
The first preseason game (away), take a midol.

[Logical]

Go read the game thread.Are you new to game threads? They are like that even when we win. People criticize, find fault and joy when things go right. This was a typical thread.

[philfree]

I think our D will be better although the 1st string did miss one big tackle. They scored on the 1st drive we didn't and then we made them punt twice in a row and had we converted on offense with a TD and the FG it would have been 10-7 between the 1st teams. I wouldn't make to much out of that but I wouldn't make to much of the bad either. IMO Gunther has plenty of ammo to work the guys over with this week. If we're still making the same mistakes in three weeks then I'll be.........less then thrilled.


PhilFree:arrow:

[Tribal Warfare]

Seriously Our D-line still sucks ass, getting blown off the ball or out of position on almost everyplay. Linebackers and Secondary corps have improved ,but the DL was average at best.

[C-Mac]

I think our D will be better although the 1st string did miss one big tackle. They scored on the 1st drive we didn't and then we made them punt twice in a row and had we converted on offense with a TD and the FG it would have been 10-7 between the 1st teams. I wouldn't make to much out of that but I wouldn't make to much of the bad either. IMO Gunther has plenty of ammo to work the guys over with this week. If we're still making the same mistakes in three weeks then I'll be.........less then thrilled.PhilFree:arrow:

It will be a very different tune next week, then you will have to bring everyone back to reality the other way.

[Halfcan]

I would agree on the plays you said and DJ did look great, BUT I thought they still looked like shit! 72 Clint Mitchell looked like a peewee football player. Junior was getting single blocked and pushed around-no heart at all. Woods got knocked down by a QB-3rd string rookie. We had no balls, no big hits, WR's were wide open, Big running lanes, no containment to the outside, looked slow, no push up the middle or pressure on the QB, Allen missed several tackles, Kwacker looked lost as usual-where was all this toughness he gained?? Oh and the middle of the field was wide open-get past the slow fat front four and you have a big play every time. Its preseason so hopefully they will cut some of these losers. Our third string defense was basically our starters last year-where was all the can't wait to hit someone talk when the game comes around-and we have a score to settle for last year-they are soft. Then King Carl, has the balls to say this was our best training camp thanks to the new equipment-whatta dickkk!! If it was your best camp then why does it look like the same problems.

Offese-Why is Damom hutard on our team-he is even worse than Toad Collins-they both looked absolutely pitiful. Funny how Toad suddenly got a wrist injury after yet another bad pass-I think he knew if he stayed out any longer-he was done and they would have been forced to pull him and admit he sucks-always did always will. Lets see if this team ca grow some nuts before we have to play the Cardinals??

[BigRedChief]

if you call that better than we are in for a long season
http://www.forumspile.com/Newbie-KeepTalking.jpg

[beer bacon]

Our defense may better, but I don't know how you would have gotten that from this game. We got killed by cutback runs and everyone but our #1 CB was burnt toast. It didn't seem all that different from last year to me.

[Halfcan]

I agree Beer bacon-the cut back runs killed us last year too-bootlegs, misdirection, and yet that one problem still kills us against rookies and third stringers. Were is the gap coverage and run support-maybe woods fell down on those plays too.

[petegz28]

We looekd faster and defended the run good witht he excpetion of the one broken\missed tackle. It was only the first pre-season game.

[kcjayhawks5]

LOL

[Halfcan]

Two players, DJ and Surtain looked fast but who else?? Simms looked the same, one play big push then disapeares for the next 4. The hype in camp has been these guys are tough, fast and ready to hit somebody- the only thing they hit was the oxygen tanks-junior looked really out of shape-2nd round pick what a joke!! But it was the first game.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

This may just be me, but IMO, our first team defense looked a lot better than it did last year vs. the Giants in the first game. I know it wasn't great, but it's something we can improve on.

This is why they play preseason games, therefore, every team won't look like crap in the opener. It's been 6 months since they've played a game, and there are new players, they need these games to gel.

Our offense is fine, even without a couple notables, we still had our way with a revamped Vikings defense. And we were playing vanilla offense, too. No shifting, or motioning.

[Halfcan]

Good points vanilla, but what bugged me was the lack of heart to want to make the big hits-no fire. The hit DJ put on their running back was the best hit-well that and knocking Culpecker on his azz.

The only thing that really bugged me about 1st string is Tony G missing a block that might have helped LJ score. My friend just got back from RF and said Tony was a complete arrogant azz to them in a Subway. TRich was cool as always, but Tony just ignored them, until pushing his son out of the way to leave-he just shoved by and said exscuse me fellows. He seems to be taking this greatest tight end thing a little too serious. Then in the game he doesn't show up. I hope he has a big year again though.

[T-post Tom]

I would agree on the plays you said and DJ did look great, BUT I thought they still looked like shit! 72 Clint Mitchell looked like a peewee football player. Junior was getting single blocked and pushed around-no heart at all. Woods got knocked down by a QB-3rd string rookie. We had no balls, no big hits, WR's were wide open, Big running lanes, no containment to the outside, looked slow, no push up the middle or pressure on the QB, Allen missed several tackles, Kwacker looked lost as usual-where was all this toughness he gained?? Oh and the middle of the field was wide open-get past the slow fat front four and you have a big play every time. Its preseason so hopefully they will cut some of these losers. Our third string defense was basically our starters last year-where was all the can't wait to hit someone talk when the game comes around-and we have a score to settle for last year-they are soft. Then King Carl, has the balls to say this was our best training camp thanks to the new equipment-whatta dickkk!! If it was your best camp then why does it look like the same problems.

Offese-Why is Damom hutard on our team-he is even worse than Toad Collins-they both looked absolutely pitiful. Funny how Toad suddenly got a wrist injury after yet another bad pass-I think he knew if he stayed out any longer-he was done and they would have been forced to pull him and admit he sucks-always did always will. Lets see if this team ca grow some nuts before we have to play the Cardinals??

Halfcan's glass isn't even half-empty. It's bone dry and lying shattered on the Red and Gold shag carpet. Sad, miserable little shards.

[Logical]

Seriously Our D-line still sucks ass, getting blown off the ball or out of position on almost everyplay. Linebackers and Secondary corps have improved ,but the DL was average at best.Did not sound like the Safeties played all that well either.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I'm in love with Surtain and DJ. DJ made mistakes, but that was to be expected for his first game, but still played well, IMO. Surtain was Surtain. He's going to the pro bowl this year.

I can't wait to see Bell. What's the word on him anyway? They interviewed him in the preshow, but didn't get to hear it.

[Halfcan]

Good one Tom- no I still got the superbowl wagon out of the garage even though it has four flat tires. I still believe. It should be a different story on opening day at Arrowhead-lets hope they have some balls by then and are ready to hit someone.

[T-post Tom]

Good one Tom- no I still got the superbowl wagon out of the garage even though it has four flat tires. I still believe. It should be a different story on opening day at Arrowhead-lets hope they have some balls by then and are ready to hit someone.

Not to worry: I've got four cans of "Fix-a-Flat" and the phone number to Raffy Palmero's "pharmacist." We'll get that defense juiced up and ready for da Jets. :) No worries.

[Halfcan]

LOL yeah Raffys pharmacist should do it.

[Pants]

Good one Tom- no I still got the superbowl wagon out of the garage even though it has four flat tires. I still believe. It should be a different story on opening day at Arrowhead-lets hope they have some balls by then and are ready to hit someone.

Dude, both teams were holding back, nobody wants their 1st string players inured in a preseason game. Having said that, Surtain completelly dominated. Did you guys see him tackle the RB after schooling the blocker? It was awesome.

[SoCalBronco]

I think our D will be better

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/17/17437/pages/592961/koolaidcrown.gif

[beer bacon]

Dude, both teams were holding back, nobody wants their 1st string players inured in a preseason game. Having said that, Surtain completelly dominated. Did you guys see him tackle the RB after schooling the blocker? It was awesome.

I was more disappointed that it didn't matter that he dominated since they could just throw around him all day and still march up and down the field. You know...just like last year. The only difference being that last year it wasn't dominating, but just playing good enough so that it wasn't worth the risk when the other team could just throw anywhere else all game.

[tk13]

I was more disappointed that it didn't matter that he dominated since they could just throw around him all day and still march up and down the field. You know...just like last year. The only difference being that last year it wasn't dominating, but just playing good enough so that it wasn't worth the risk when the other team could just throw anywhere else all game.
Surtain won't make a lick of difference if the front seven (and really the other corner) doesn't play well. Just like Champ couldn't save the Broncos last year...

[greg63]

First preseason game saw very little of the first teams - the weeks ahead will paint a more complete picture of what we have to look forward to. Until then I really don't have too much of an opinion one way or the other.

[alanm]

Are you new to game threads? They are like that even when we win. People criticize, find fault and joy when things go right. This was a typical thread.
Noobs. If you didn't know who won any game and followed just the game threads from the last few years in the archives you'd of thought we've just been through a 0-48 losing streak.
Course following a Donk loss game thread on the Mane after the fact is often a good read. ROFL

[HemiEd]

Halfcan's glass isn't even half-empty. It's bone dry and lying shattered on the Red and Gold shag carpet. Sad, miserable little shards.


Yep, good thing it is "his" team.

[Red Dawg]

How did 97 end up for the Chiefs?

Smartass muther ****er! Go back to your board of jackass's.

It ended up like yours will with Plummer leading the way again.

[andoman]

How did 97 end up for the Chiefs?

It ended with the Rat buying (blowing) off some game officials.

[B_Ambuehl]

This may just be me, but IMO, our first team defense looked a lot better than it did last year vs. the Giants in the first game. I know it wasn't great, but it's something we can improve on.

This is true. Giving up plays cause you don't have the manpower to matchup with the offense is one thing and was often the case last year - Giving up big plays because your defense is overly excited and aggressive is another thing and really the only thing wrong with last nights performance.

The defense also got 2 back to back 3 and outs in the first half. I know it's preseasons but how many 3 and outs did they have all of last year?

[petegz28]

They looked faster. Fox was starting and not Bell. HUGE difference I would presume. Dex actually didn't get burnt on the long pass in the end zone. Surtain juked a blocker and took out the ball carrier. DJ after being blocked ona blitz recovered to force Culpepper out of bounds, somehting we haven't seen anyoen able to do in a few years, Allen needs to learn how to tackle better and Hicks need to learn what contain is. I thought Simms had some good push all night. Except for the 1 run they couldn't run on us.

[Nightfyre]

I agree, that we are where we were at last year in productivity. However, (as much as I hate to agree with petegz) the D is showing signs of turning it around. Sims is pushing, Hicks is getting after the QB, DJ is adjusting VERY QUICKLY for a LB in guns scheme. Surtain is a lockdown CB. Mitchell seems poised to have a great year, hes all over making plays. Everything is falling into place. And our two most important defensive tools are already looking great: 1. The offense isnt slowing down. Thats right the offense is a significant portion of our defense. 2. Colquitt is causing fumbles and HUGE hangtime.

[Nightfyre]

Oh, prediction, Sapp will be starting opposite Surtain week 1.

[Mr. Laz]

Our D is Better. Realize It Or Not!

> bad ≠ good

~Parker~

[JazzzLovr]

Are you new to game threads? They are like that even when we win. People criticize, find fault and joy when things go right. This was a typical thread.

Yeah, those damn doom-and-gloomers. I bet they were the same ones who said Larry Johnson was a bust.



o:-)

[kcjayhawks5]

yeah, they just wont throw to surtain's guy. they can throw to wesleys guy and go right down the field and score. our tackling looked really shitty though. We were one of the worst tackling teams last year and i dont want to go through that again this year.

[kcjayhawks5]

donkeys

[Nightfyre]

yeah, they just wont throw to surtain's guy. they can throw to wesleys guy and go right down the field and score. our tackling looked really shitty though. We were one of the worst tackling teams last year and i dont want to go through that again this year.
If by wesley you mean McCleon.

[TEX]

Our front 4 is just as bad as last year. Jarred Allen is NOT an every down player. If out front 4 does not improve - it won't matter that we're better at LB and CB. :shake:

[TEX]

yeah, they just wont throw to surtain's guy. they can throw to wesleys guy and go right down the field and score. our tackling looked really shitty though. We were one of the worst tackling teams last year and i dont want to go through that again this year.

Yep. Wesley looked LOST. :shake:

[TEX]

The first preseason game (away), take a midol.


Yep. But often times problems seen in the first preseason game come back to haunt us during the regular season - especially on defense. Last year it was the play of the LB's and CB's. This year it's the D-line. There should be a real concern there even after just one preseason game. Those guys $UCKED. :shake:

[Nightfyre]

is anyone else for making the 1st string defense play like 3 quarters? they could use the practice and it might help to build chemistry.

[the Talking Can]

Yep. But often times problems seen in the first preseason game come back to haunt us during the regular season - especially on defense.

yup...Dayne ripped us in preseason, and our D continued to suck ass all season long...

[htismaqe]

> bad ≠ good

~Parker~

:clap:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

After watching the first couple series of that game again, I realized something...Eric Hicks looks old and slow.

[greg63]

They looked faster. Fox was starting and not Bell. HUGE difference I would presume. Dex actually didn't get burnt on the long pass in the end zone. Surtain juked a blocker and took out the ball carrier. DJ after being blocked ona blitz recovered to force Culpepper out of bounds, somehting we haven't seen anyoen able to do in a few years, Allen needs to learn how to tackle better and Hicks need to learn what contain is. I thought Simms had some good push all night. Except for the 1 run they couldn't run on us.


I agree, that we are where we were at last year in productivity. However, (as much as I hate to agree with petegz) the D is showing signs of turning it around. Sims is pushing, Hicks is getting after the QB, DJ is adjusting VERY QUICKLY for a LB in guns scheme. Surtain is a lockdown CB. Mitchell seems poised to have a great year, hes all over making plays. Everything is falling into place. And our two most important defensive tools are already looking great: 1. The offense isnt slowing down. Thats right the offense is a significant portion of our defense. 2. Colquitt is causing fumbles and HUGE hangtime.


Some good analysis guys. I understand that folks have concerns about our defense, and rightfully so when you consider our lack of defense over the last couple of seasons. However, I am cautiously optimistic about this season if for no other reason then this is Gun's second season and he's had more of an opportunity to build his defense.

[Hammock Parties]

After watching the first couple series of that game again, I realized something...Eric Hicks looks old and slow.

Yep. Slow, slow, slow. He actually has decent pass rush moves, but once he gets past the OT, he's too slow to get to the QB.

[greg63]

is anyone else for making the 1st string defense play like 3 quarters? they could use the practice and it might help to build chemistry.
I see your point, but I have mixed feelings about having them play that much this early in the preseason, because teams will have their scrubs on the field in the third quarter who is head hunting trying to earn a spot on their team. I wouldn't want any of our first team guys going down especially in preseason.

Your right though in your assessment that they could use the practice.

[Mr. Laz]

Surtain won't make a lick of difference if the front seven (and really the other corner) doesn't play well. Just like Champ couldn't save the Broncos last year...

what are you talking about ... denver had the 4th ranked defense last year.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

what are you talking about ... denver had the 4th ranked defense last year.

Skewed stats. They had a bad Dline, they couldn't put pressure on the QB.

See-- Peyton Manning's latest passing clinic video made last January vs. the Broncos.

[TEX]

Skewed stats. They had a bad Dline, they couldn't put pressure on the QB.

See-- Peyton Manning's latest passing clinic video made last January vs. the Broncos.

Or our rushing one that we put on them. :p

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Good points vanilla, but what bugged me was the lack of heart to want to make the big hits-no fire. The hit DJ put on their running back was the best hit-well that and knocking Culpecker on his azz.

The only thing that really bugged me about 1st string is Tony G missing a block that might have helped LJ score. My friend just got back from RF and said Tony was a complete arrogant azz to them in a Subway. TRich was cool as always, but Tony just ignored them, until pushing his son out of the way to leave-he just shoved by and said exscuse me fellows. He seems to be taking this greatest tight end thing a little too serious. Then in the game he doesn't show up. I hope he has a big year again though.


Your friend must have been an ass to begin with, I met Tony G and Jason Dunn in Coaches in River Falls last Thurs. night and visited with them for several minutes, even offered to buy them a drink (which they refused because they had to get back for curfew, wish Siavii and Wesley would take a page from that book!) Both of the guys were cool as could be, asked Dunn how he was feeling and and how Tony's foot was. They both laughed and joked about how it was funny how fans knew so much about their injuries. Both guys were great and even went out of their way several minutes later when they were leaving to say thanks for the drink offer.

[KChiefsQT]

After seeing the re-play tonight where I could actually watch the game and not the 3 minutes NFL network calls wrap-around coverage I saw fire in a few players, one being DJ. However, IMO our D line blows and watching them break those long runs feels like a re-cap of last year.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Not sure what everyone is so down on the D-Line for. After hearing all the doom and gloom about how bad they looked at practice I thought that during the practices I saw while in River Falls, (granted due to rain I did not get to see a full pads practice) that Sims, Browning, and even Dalton was looking pretty good. After watching the game at home (was at the game but could not see shit in that hole called the Metro-toilet-Dome) I am very optomistic about how the D-Line will play this year, Sims had several deep penetrations in the back field, as did Dalton and Browning. Everyone wants to see the D tackles have 20 tackles a game and 4 sacks but that is not really their jobs, they need to disrupt the backfield, flush the QB, cause the RB's to change direction, etc.... Even when Culpepper was in and completing 6-7 the D line was doing their job. Culpepper was having to move around the pocket about every play and had to scramble several times. Michael Bennett did not get a thing going. The problem was having basically 2 new LB's in the game and not being sure where they need to be every play. (Johnson-rookie, Fox-2nd year player and only played one game on D last year) Regardless of what most are thinking about Mitchell I thought he looked very promising. Plus keep in mind that the Chiefs blitzed only 3-4 times.

Not saying we have a championship D yet, but lets not freak out over the first preseason game! The real litmus test will be the 3rd preseason game against the Seahawks when the game will feature most of the regular season packages.

[KChiefsQT]

Not sure what everyone is so down on the D-Line for. After hearing all the doom and gloom about how bad they looked at practice I thought that during the practices I saw while in River Falls, (granted due to rain I did not get to see a full pads practice) that Sims, Browning, and even Dalton was looking pretty good. After watching the game at home (was at the game but could not see shit in that hole called the Metro-toilet-Dome) I am very optomistic about how the D-Line will play this year, Sims had several deep penetrations in the back field, as did Dalton and Browning. Everyone wants to see the D tackles have 20 tackles a game and 4 sacks but that is not really their jobs, they need to disrupt the backfield, flush the QB, cause the RB's to change direction, etc.... Even when Culpepper was in and completing 6-7 the D line was doing their job. Culpepper was having to move around the pocket about every play and had to scramble several times. Michael Bennett did not get a thing going. The problem was having basically 2 new LB's in the game and not being sure where they need to be every play. (Johnson-rookie, Fox-2nd year player and only played one game on D last year) Regardless of what most are thinking about Mitchell I thought he looked very promising. Plus keep in mind that the Chiefs blitzed only 3-4 times.

Not saying we have a championship D yet, but lets not freak out over the first preseason game! The real litmus test will be the 3rd preseason game against the Seahawks when the game will feature most of the regular season packages.

I'm not freaking yet... we'll see what happens week one.