Players we should just go ahead a cut [Archive]

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:16 PM

Jerome Woods - Thanks for the memories

Brett Williams - drafted for left tackle ... 2/3 years later he's still looking like crap against scrubs at right tackle. Not mobile enough for guard in our offense imo.

Eric Hicks - when is the last time this warm body ever was a force in a game ... 2000 when he has 14 sacks? He may still grab a sack when the pocket collapses but he doesn't ever CAUSE the pocket to collapse. Can't hold contain ... Can't rush the passer ... mediocre against run ... doesn't demand a double team. What the point? Browning can't start at LDE and do what Hicks does AND be better against the run.

Damon Huard - 9 year vet and he didn't show me anything Killian won't be able to do with the extra reps he'll get with Huard gone. Develop the young guy.

use one of these freed up roster spots to bring in a kicker to compete with tynes. :shake:

Garcia Bronco

08-14-2005, 01:19 PM

what about woods?

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:21 PM

what about woods?
i listed him ... what about it?

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 01:22 PM

Hicks is about the closest thing to solid we have at DE. :shake: He is getting to the QB. Get off the anti-Hicks bandwagon folks, its an unhealthy and unwarranted obsession.

Wallcrawler

08-14-2005, 01:23 PM

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:23 PM

Hicks is about the closest thing to solid we have at DE. :shake: He is getting to the QB.
when exactly he is getting to the QB?

what about his game is solid?

i don't know a single thing he's particularly good at

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:24 PM

Too big of a cap hit I think to just cut Woods. He probably will be on the final roster for that reason alone.

Same thing with Eric Hicks. They just gave him a new deal as well, and his cap hit would substantial as well.
possible ... don't know how their contracts are structured

but there are players with more potiential on the roster

morphius

08-14-2005, 01:26 PM

Hicks is about the closest thing to solid we have at DE. :shake: He is getting to the QB. Get off the anti-Hicks bandwagon folks, its an unhealthy and unwarranted obsession.
Getting to the QB after the QB has had all day to scan the field is not something that warrents much praise. Most of his QB pressures are the plays that end up with 20 yards long passes in the air.

Garcia Bronco

08-14-2005, 01:29 PM

My bad...I didn't see him at the top Laz

oaklandhater

08-14-2005, 01:29 PM

when exactly he is getting to the QB?

what about his game is solid?

i don't know a single thing he's particularly good at

He is good at not geting to the QB :)

Oh and you should add Maslowski to that list.

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:31 PM

My bad...I didn't see him at the top Laz
no problemo :thumb:

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:33 PM

He is good at not geting to the QB :)

Oh and you should add Maslowski to that list.
heh...

Maz isn't taking up anyone's reps ... dont' see any rush to cut him unless they have someone else to sign. :shrug:

i imagine an injury settlement/retirement announcement just before the season.

maybe Maz will coach

TRR

08-14-2005, 01:35 PM

when exactly he is getting to the QB?

what about his game is solid?

i don't know a single thing he's particularly good at

I agree that Hicks is not the player he used to be. The problem I have agreeing with you is that Vermeil seems to like the way he is playing. Gunther seems to like the way he is playing. And Karmelowicz seems to like the way Hicks is playing.

Don't those coaches have a little bit better knowledge of what they want out of a DE than us?

jspchief

08-14-2005, 01:37 PM

Who are you going to play in place of Hicks?

I'm not sticking up for him, but unlike the other guys you listed, I'm not sure we have someone better to take his place.

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:41 PM

Who are you going to play in place of Hicks?

I'm not sticking up for him, but unlike the other guys you listed, I'm not sure we have someone better to take his place.

start Browning at LDE with wilkerson as back up

browning works just as hard and will prolly get just as many slop sacks and will be stronger at the point of attack.

TRR

08-14-2005, 01:43 PM

start Browning at LDE with wilkerson as back up

browning works just as hard and will prolly get just as many slop sacks and will be stronger at the point of attack.

They moved Browning around too much last season. He's a natural DT as far as I'm concerned. He's the only one I've seen that can consistently push the pocket at DT.

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:49 PM

They moved Browning around too much last season. He's a natural DT as far as I'm concerned. He's the only one I've seen that can consistently push the pocket at DT.

imo he's not big/strong enough to be a DT

he's a 3-4 defensive end ... but since we don't play 3-4 then i think he will be of more use starting at LDE then backing up at DT.

if your LDE isn't going to get a pass rush you might as well have him be big enough to control the point of attack and protect your LB's.

milkman

08-14-2005, 01:51 PM

They moved Browning around too much last season. He's a natural DT as far as I'm concerned. He's the only one I've seen that can consistently push the pocket at DT.

Which play was that?
I missed it.

John Browning is a more natural run stuffing DE.
All I've ever seen from Browning at DT is that he's overmatched.

He has been far more active, and made far more plays, in less time at DE than he has at DT.

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 01:53 PM

Which play was that?
I missed it.

John Browning is a more natural run stuffing DE.
All I've ever seen from Browning at DT is that he's overmatched.

He has been far more active, and made far more plays, in less time at DE than he has at DT.
:clap:

overpowered inside but should be able to get a decent push against a single guy at LDE or against a TE.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 02:04 PM

Hicks was chasing after Culpepper at least twice in the preseason game. Did you choose to ignore that?

Beautiful

08-14-2005, 02:04 PM

Hicks is about the closest thing to solid we have at DE. :shake: He is getting to the QB. Get off the anti-Hicks bandwagon folks, its an unhealthy and unwarranted obsession.

Agreed he is anything special but he is solid if unspecatular. Now Siavaii he can go anytime...

milkman

08-14-2005, 02:12 PM

Hicks was chasing after Culpepper at least twice in the preseason game. Did you choose to ignore that?

I haven't as yet seen the game.

But the reality is, Hicks has done a lot of QB chasing over the years, almost always coming up short.

He has been an average run defender.

Simply stated, Hicks is a mediocre player that has no business starting.

John Browning is a better DE than Hicks, and should have been moved there 3 seasons ago.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 02:15 PM

I haven't as yet seen the game.

But the reality is, Hicks has done a lot of QB chasing over the years, almost always coming up short.

He has been an average run defender.

Simply stated, Hicks is a mediocre player that has no business starting.

John Browning is a better DE than Hicks, and should have been moved there 3 seasons ago.
Hicks chasing the QB is a helluva lot more production than the rest of our team is getting. It does force the QB to put up the ball. Other positions are in far worse shape. (IE DT) Maybe if there were a DT to draw the double team, it would be easier for the pass rushers. As for the rest of our DEs, they suck too. Or more importantly, they suck worse.

milkman

08-14-2005, 02:17 PM

Hicks chasing the QB is a helluva lot more production than the rest of our team is getting. It does force the QB to put up the ball. Other positions are in far worse shape. (IE DT) Maybe if there were a DT to draw the double team, it would be easier for the pass rushers. As for the rest of our DEs, they suck too. Or more importantly, they suck worse.

Lesser suckage is still suckage.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 02:18 PM

Lesser suckage is still suckage.
So cut your best DE. Genious (CP sp.)

milkman

08-14-2005, 02:23 PM

So cut your best DE. Genious (CP sp.)

I didn't say cut him, that's Laz's deal.

I said start Browning in his spot, because as a DE, Browning doesn't suck.

Hicks should be relegated to the bench.

With Browning, the pass rush will be equal at the very least, and he's a far better run defender.

Browning doesn't suck at DE.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 02:37 PM

I didn't say cut him, that's Laz's deal.

I said start Browning in his spot, because as a DE, Browning doesn't suck.

Hicks should be relegated to the bench.

With Browning, the pass rush will be equal at the very least, and he's a far better run defender.

Browning doesn't suck at DE.
If Browning is better, he will be played. Thats the way football works.

morphius

08-14-2005, 02:48 PM

If Browning is better, he will be played. Thats the way football works.
Which explains Larry Johnson sitting 3rd on the roster for 2 years how? Which explains why the Ravens drafted Jamal Lewis and let Priest go for for nothing?

Thats just to name 2...

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 02:50 PM

Which explains Larry Johnson sitting 3rd on the roster for 2 years how? Which explains why the Ravens drafted Jamal Lewis and let Priest go for for nothing?

Thats just to name 2...
Jamal Lewis is better than Priest Holmes. Larry Johnson is worse than Priest Holmes, and he doesnt work well in our offensive system. (We had to change the whole system when he was starting.)

morphius

08-14-2005, 02:55 PM

Jamal Lewis is better than Priest Holmes. Larry Johnson is worse than Priest Holmes, and he doesnt work well in our offensive system. (We had to change the whole system when he was starting.)
How is Jamal Lewis better? One 2000 yard season?

morphius

08-14-2005, 02:56 PM

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 03:10 PM

Blaylock worked better in the system than LJ did. Only after we adjusted the system for LJ did he really shine.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 03:11 PM

How is Jamal Lewis better? One 2000 yard season?
Behind a far worse Oline. Lewis is the perfect blend of speed and power.

morphius

08-14-2005, 03:21 PM

Blaylock worked better in the system than LJ did. Only after we adjusted the system for LJ did he really shine.
Well, we didn't run the same plays with Blaylock in as we did with Priest same for TRich. We don't run the same plays for Gonzo as we do Dunn. Its the way it works and just another example of Saunders showing that he didn't know what LJ was capable of, thanks for bringing that up...

I could see an arguement where you could say that Priest and Lewis are equal, but when one scores 60 TD's in 38 games and the other scores 22 TD's is 42 games I would have an issue saying that Jamal is actually better. Especially with YPC being pretty similar between the two.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 03:25 PM

Well, we didn't run the same plays with Blaylock in as we did with Priest same for TRich. We don't run the same plays for Gonzo as we do Dunn. Its the way it works and just another example of Saunders showing that he didn't know what LJ was capable of, thanks for bringing that up...

I could see an arguement where you could say that Priest and Lewis are equal, but when one scores 60 TD's in 38 games and the other scores 22 TD's is 42 games I would have an issue saying that Jamal is actually better. Especially with YPC being pretty similar between the two.
If Lewis had half the OLine the chiefs had, or half the passing threat, I would agree. But Lewis gets the same YPC behind a worse line and with a worse passing threat.

As for LJ, who knows what went on. But if you think Gun would start an inferior player on a defense he is trying to turn around, you would be mistaken.

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 03:26 PM

If Browning is better, he will be played. Thats the way football works.
holy dog crap :eek:

if that was the case then hicks woulda been gone long ago

just because you don't want to believe it

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 03:28 PM

holy dog crap :eek:

if that was the case then hicks woulda been gone long ago

just because you don't want to believe it
Really, I suppose you are in a position to evaluate Hicks in practice everyday. :shake:

morphius

08-14-2005, 03:38 PM

Really, I suppose you are in a position to evaluate Hicks in practice everyday. :shake:
Thats where the problem lays, he obviously does well in practice, but doesn't translate it on the field on Sunday.

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 03:41 PM

Thats where the problem lays, he obviously does well in practice, but doesn't translate it on the field on Sunday.
I am predicting it will if the DTs start doing their job so Hicks can do his.

morphius

08-14-2005, 03:45 PM

I am predicting it will if the DTs start doing their job so Hicks can do his.
Hicks is 1-1 with almost all the time, its not like the DT is causing the other people to start double teaming him. Even when Dalton is next to him, who played pretty damn well, his output didn't improve...

BigMeatballDave

08-14-2005, 03:46 PM

Hicks is about the closest thing to solid we have at DE. :shake: He is getting to the QB. Get off the anti-Hicks bandwagon folks, its an unhealthy and unwarranted obsession.Yeah, he's a stud...
:rolleyes:

booger

08-14-2005, 03:54 PM

I'd agree on giving Browning a shot at LDE. He's played well there before and if no other reason it might light a fire under Hicks's ass.

On the other hand if once we start to see tighter man to man maybe some of hicks pressure might turn into sacks. I'd like to see Hall and Long get back to practice asap. IMO at this point one of the two or Wilkerson needs to replace hicks on every obvious passing situation to keep him fresh for running downs.

Back to Browning: the problem now is he is our ONLY option as the third DT. Siavii needs to get his arse in gear and the group of Dixon, Jones, and Sharpe aren't doing much to push him. I'd like to see Wilkerson get some snaps here as well. He held up as a rookie playing some at LDT and that was when he was only 265 lbs or so. Probably more of a pass rush DT and backup DE though.

If Siavii doesn't step up I could see us persuing a guy like Jeff Zgonina if he is cut down in Miami.

I kind of think against a team like MIN and a QB like Culpepper on the first preseason game is tough to judge the progress. I am really looking forward to hopefully seeing some progress against the Cards.

TRR

08-14-2005, 03:59 PM

I think the biggest key for our defense is getting Kendrell Bell ready to roll. I was unimpressed to say the least, with Key Fox at OLB. Bell would really provide a spark, and add some leadership to a LB crew that is starting a rookie, a part time starter, and a first time starter at the moment.

BigMeatballDave

08-14-2005, 04:00 PM

Behind a far worse Oline. Lewis is the perfect blend of speed and power.Overall, I'd have to say Priest is the better RB. Look at the numbers, Lewis is an awful reciever out of the backfield...

booger

08-14-2005, 04:02 PM

milkman

08-14-2005, 04:47 PM

If Browning is better, he will be played. Thats the way football works.

My memory is pretty bad, but it seems to me Scott Fujita proved that he was better than whoever was playing ahead of him, but didn't get a chance to prove it until that player got hurt.

(Was that Lew Bush? Damn my memory, Carl! :cuss: )

Jared Allen, in spite of his run defense issues, is better than Vonnie Holliday, by far, but didn't get his opportunity to show it until Holliday was hurt.

So, no, that's isn't necessarily always the way football works.

go bo

08-14-2005, 04:51 PM

My memory is pretty bad, but it seems to me Scott Fujita proved that he was better than whoever was playing ahead of him, but didn't get a chance to prove it until that player got hurt.

(Was that Lew Bush? Damn my memory, Carl! :cuss: )

Jared Allen, in spite of his run defense issues, is better than Vonnie Holliday, by far, but didn't get his opportunity to show it until Holliday was hurt.

So, no, that's isn't necessarily always the way football works.oh, c'mon...

don't confuse the poor boy with specific examples...

Nightfyre

08-14-2005, 04:54 PM

Mr. Laz

08-14-2005, 05:08 PM

Were either Fujita or Allen proven at the time?
oh so now there is more than just better? :hmmm:

now it has to be better and proven...

how about when the higher salary guys get kept for money reasons

your just being naive if you think the better player always plays

hicks hasn't done anything in 5 years ...

Rausch

08-14-2005, 05:14 PM

use one of these freed up roster spots to bring in a kicker to compete with tynes. :shake:

Hate to say it but couldn't agree more. I really wanted to see Jerome come back strong but it don't look like that's going to happen.

And Tynes is an Elliott waitning to happen...