View Full Version : How much will Carlos Hall help?
I get the feeling Jared Allen won't be as good as we are counting on. He really played poorly vs the Vikings. He didn't keep outside containment several times and put no pressure on the qb. I know he's young and will get better, but all of us and the organization are looking at getting the job done now! Will Carlos take his spot or Hicks' spot in obvious passing situations?
4th and Long
08-14-2005, 07:39 PM
Ummm ... hey Rick? You do realize it's preseason and Gun isn't going to show you much except a really vanilla defense, right?
morphius
08-14-2005, 07:44 PM
I don't know that a guy that only got 2 sacks is going to be noticably helpful on D. He is going to be playing in Allen's spot according to the coaches.
BigMeatballDave
08-14-2005, 07:45 PM
Oh, look. Another "Chiefs _efense was horrible in the 1st preseason game" thread...
milkman
08-14-2005, 07:49 PM
I don't know that a guy that only got 2 sacks is going to be noticably helpful on D. He is going to be playing in Allen's spot according to the coaches.
It is interesting that a guy that, like Hicks, has had one good season, and then faded into near obscurity, is looked upon like some kind of potential savior for our D-Line.
jspchief
08-14-2005, 07:52 PM
Oh, look. Another "Chiefs _efense was horrible in the 1st preseason game" thread...Allen was poor against the run last year too. It's not like the opinion is based off of one game.
That being said, I still think we have a long way to go before giving up on Allen.
bringbackmarty
08-14-2005, 07:59 PM
Oh, look. Another "Chiefs _efense was horrible in the 1st preseason game" thread...
as opposed to the chiefs defense was horrible the last five years thread?
Ummm ... hey Rick? You do realize it's preseason and Gun isn't going to show you much except a really vanilla defense, right?
Umm, you do realize I said nothing about the scheme, I am asking about one person possibly having a hard sophomore season. Lighten up.
the Talking Can
08-14-2005, 08:02 PM
right now 2 of our 4 FA signings aren't playing...we need Bell and Hall on the field pronto
Hall will help. He's a solid pass rusher, and this D can always use those types of players. From what Titans fans say, he can get after the QB on a consistent basis, and holds up well against the run.
Both Hall and Bell are very good at getting to the QB. Both were absent against the Vikes.
morphius
08-14-2005, 08:08 PM
Am I wrong in thinking that it isn't the DE's job to always hold containment on the outside? DE's make inside moves on OT's all the time, so isn't it really the LB's job to read the move and watch the outside?
beer bacon
08-14-2005, 08:09 PM
According to the practice update Wilkerson repaced Allen on the first team defense today.
Chiefs Pantalones
08-14-2005, 08:12 PM
Honestly, I don't care what happens this preseason. I think DV is holding everyone back, Bell, Hall, the Oline. He feels pretty confident that we'll be ok if we can just make it to the regular season healthy as a team.
BigMeatballDave
08-14-2005, 08:13 PM
as opposed to the chiefs defense was horrible the last five years thread?I'm just bitching about all the bitching...
Honestly, I don't care what happens this preseason. I think DV is holding everyone back, Bell, Hall, the Oline. He feels pretty confident that we'll be ok if we can just make it to the regular season healthy as a team.
I agree completely. I haven't seen a TC like this ever. DV is really taking it easy on anyone who has any type of injury, etc. Hopefully it pays dividends.
milkman
08-14-2005, 08:18 PM
Hall will help. He's a solid pass rusher, and this D can always use those types of players. From what Titans fans say, he can get after the QB on a consistent basis, and holds up well against the run.
Both Hall and Bell are very good at getting to the QB. Both were absent against the Vikes.
I don't know what Titan fans are watching.
He had 8 sacks in '02.
He's had 5 1/2 since.
He has averaged about 27 tackles a year.
Those are average to below average numbers, especially the sacks.
milkman
08-14-2005, 08:20 PM
Honestly, I don't care what happens this preseason. I think DV is holding everyone back, Bell, Hall, the Oline. He feels pretty confident that we'll be ok if we can just make it to the regular season healthy as a team.
I hope it pays dividends at the start of the regular season.
I know it's only one preseason, but this D looked soft against the Vikes.
Coogs
08-14-2005, 08:26 PM
Ummm ... hey Rick? You do realize it's preseason and Gun isn't going to show you much except a really vanilla defense, right?
Let's hope Gun stays vanilla in the rest of the pre-season games. Last year against the Lambs, Gun threw everything including the kitchen sink on the field. It looked damn good too! Had everybody in Chiefsland thinking GR was really the bad DC we all thought he was. Then reality hit during the regular season...
morphius
08-14-2005, 08:37 PM
I don't know what Titan fans are watching.
He had 8 sacks in '02.
He's had 5 1/2 since.
He has averaged about 27 tackles a year.
Those are average to below average numbers, especially the sacks.
I don't think he has gotten much playing time and I thought he was considered a situational player, so its hard to say that the stats really mean a lot.
Valiant
08-14-2005, 08:37 PM
I get the feeling Jared Allen won't be as good as we are counting on. He really played poorly vs the Vikings. He didn't keep outside containment several times and put no pressure on the qb. I know he's young and will get better, but all of us and the organization are looking at getting the job done now! Will Carlos take his spot or Hicks' spot in obvious passing situations?
We will not know how they play until the last preseason game when they start running legit D formations... He did look like ass, but we ran vanilla D and O, compared to the Vikes actually running more regular season plays... We were totally unprepared...
We will not know for a couple more weeks...
Chiefs Pantalones
08-14-2005, 08:45 PM
The Vikings have a revamped D, as well. They didn't exactly stop us, either. We ran all over their first unit. And if it weren't for some dropped passes, LJ tripping up at the goalline, and the offense keeping it vanilla, we would've probably scored on them each time. Now...does anyone think the Vikes D will be better than what we saw? Absolutely. I wonder if Vikings fans are going nuts because their revamped D gave up 10yds a carry to Priest? So then why all the concern on our part, especially after the first preseason game?
milkman
08-14-2005, 08:47 PM
I don't think he has gotten much playing time and I thought he was considered a situational player, so its hard to say that the stats really mean a lot.
Even if he was just a situational player, he apparently didn't do much in the situations he is supposed to be good at, that being rushing the QB.
But I was under the impression that he replaced Kearse as the starter there when Kearse signed with the Eagles.
morphius
08-14-2005, 09:04 PM
Even if he was just a situational player, he apparently didn't do much in the situations he is supposed to be good at, that being rushing the QB.
But I was under the impression that he replaced Kearse as the starter there when Kearse signed with the Eagles.
I do like how on the Chiefs site gives him 72 tackles and 42 solo, while the NFL has him with 41 tackles and 18 solo.
Ummm ... hey Rick? You do realize it's preseason and Gun isn't going to show you much except a really vanilla defense, right?
I realize that except I guarantee that Gun definately plans on showing the part of his defense where a player makes a tackle at the line when he has the ball carrier wrapped up...
milkman
08-14-2005, 09:07 PM
I do like how on the Chiefs site gives him 72 tackles and 42 solo, while the NFL has him with 41 tackles and 18 solo.
I'll go with the NFL, even though I know the Chiefs would never embellish those numbers!
right now 2 of our 4 FA signings aren't playing...we need Bell and Hall on the field pronto
I've had this bad feeling since the day 1 of the Bell signing that we're going to have to get used to that many times this seasson.
Bowser
08-14-2005, 09:11 PM
I've had this bad feeling since the day 1 of the Bell signing that we're going to have to get used to that many times this seasson.
DAMMIT........WATCH THE JINX.............
morphius
08-14-2005, 09:15 PM
I'll go with the NFL, even though I know the Chiefs would never embellish those numbers!
LOL! When I looked at the NFL site that would have made him the second best DL in the league.
According to the practice update Wilkerson repaced Allen on the first team defense today.
I just saw this too on the River Falls website. I guess Gunther can sure as hell tell something from the first preseason game- noone is panicking, just evaluating.
Infidel Goat
08-15-2005, 09:34 AM
I hope we do use Wilkerson more often.
Save Allen or Hall for obvious passing downs.
With our new speed at linebacker, I'd prefer some weight on the DL.
--Infidel Goat
Hoover
08-15-2005, 09:46 AM
I played D line in High School but I was taught you always try to go throught the head of the guy blocking you, and if you get through the line look down the back of the line for the ball carrier.
htismaqe
08-15-2005, 09:50 AM
I sincerely hope Wilkerson start to grow into what many thought he could be had he stayed in school.
Hoover
08-15-2005, 09:51 AM
I don't like Blitzing the nickel back, I would rather bring a LB's. I think once Bell plays the D will show vast improvement.
jspchief
08-15-2005, 09:55 AM
I don't like Blitzing the nickel back, I would rather bring a LB's. I think once Bell plays the D will show vast improvement.The nickel/safety blitzes were the only effective blitzes we had against MIN. Specifically the blindside ones. I just don't like how we often telegraph them.
Mr. Laz
08-15-2005, 10:25 AM
it's preseason and Gun isn't going to show you much except a really vanilla defense, right?
gotta be one of the lamest excuses in football
Chief Faithful
08-15-2005, 10:29 AM
I get the impression that Gun is putting pressure on Allen to play within his scheme or not at all. The demotion may be more a message to the whole defense than an indicator of where or not Allen has the stuff to be a quality DE.
Gun put together a vanilla game plan wanting his players to show in the game the basics being taught on the practice field. Allen instead started doing his own thing causing defensive breakdowns. Gun may be communicating to the defense that nobody is indispensible and the players had better start doing things the way its being taught.
Allen will still be a big part of this defense in 2005 and Gun is not going to put up with crappy play anymore. :clap:
Mr. Laz
08-15-2005, 11:16 AM
Gun put together a vanilla game plan wanting his players to show in the game the basics being taught on the practice field. Allen instead started doing his own thing causing defensive breakdowns
and you know this how?
KCTitus
08-15-2005, 11:18 AM
and you know this how?
Oh, the irony...
jspchief
08-15-2005, 11:18 AM
and you know this how?It was on the fact sheet that Bob Moore faxed to everyone.
htismaqe
08-15-2005, 11:24 AM
Allen was freelancing?
That's a new one.
DaWolf
08-15-2005, 11:27 AM
How much will Carlos Hall help?
Probably as much as R-Kal helped the Packers. If we're getting a guy for a 5th round pick then we're probably not getting a great player...
Chief Faithful
08-15-2005, 11:33 AM
and you know this how?
I don't, that is why I said it was my impression.
Mr. Laz
08-15-2005, 11:35 AM
I don't, that is why I said it was my impression.
ooooh... okay
sounded like you had read it someplace or somethin'
Chief Faithful
08-15-2005, 11:53 AM
ooooh... okay
sounded like you had read it someplace or somethin'
When Gun came down so hard on Allen during the game then demoted him next practice I figured it had to be Allen pulling a stupid. Especially since Gun stated his defense was not ready yet before the game.
As a former club soccer coach (Chicago Fire "B" league) I worked hard to try and break good players of bad habits and instill proper technique. Often a kid would demonstrate the good technique in practice then fall right back to the bad habits in a game. When this happened it affected the performance of the whole team.
Watching the game and the reaction from Gun I got the impression that Allen was not doing the basic things emphasized in practice and it caused breakdowns on the field. As a coach you have to get the players attention when this happens. Plus, many times the Chiefs coaches have stated it takes players on average 3 years to learn how to play the game in the NFL. So if Allen isn't paying attention then Gun needs to insert foot in *ss.
I also doubt the demotion had anything to do with Allen's ability. Allen is a talented player that I fully believe will turn it around.
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