New Orleans: "A Disaster Waiting To Happen"

[Mr. Kotter]

Okay, can someone help me out here???

I have a serious question....

I've heard numerous experts say, "Yeah....we've known all along that New Orleans was a disaster, waiting to happen" and similar such things.

My question is, IF that is truly the case.....why the hell would we spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" a "disaster, waiting to happen?"

:shrug:

[Saulbadguy]

My question is, IF that is truly the case.....why the hell would we spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" a "disaster, waiting to happen?"

:shrug:
Because its human nature. They will go back to the same area, and this will happen again. Seems kinda stupid to me.

[jynni]

San Fran is the same way.

On the other thread others elaborated on how vital the port is to the shipping industry.

I guess since they are most likely going to pour the $$$ to rebuild - they'd better do it right this time. None of this "well we built the levees to withstand a CAT3 and just hope a CAT 4 or 5 doesn't swing through".

[Rain Man]

Probably because it'll be an add-on to a Senate bill about rescuing children who fall in wells.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the long run. I've done work in West Virginia in areas where the Feds spent millions of dollars to jack up ramshackle houses onto eight-foot foundations because of flooding. Any logical person would've just told the people, "Don't live there." I kid you not - in one place, I saw a mobile home that was probably worth $5,000 sitting atop a federally funded 8-foot foundation that probably cost $30,000.

[luv]

Because its human nature. They will go back to the same area, and this will happen again. Seems kinda stupid to me.
The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results. (from the movie 28 Days)

[Mr. Kotter]

... Seems kinda stupid to me.

To me, it's way, way, way.....beyond stupid. Stupid is being kind. :shake:

[Mr. Kotter]

San Fran is the same way.

On the other thread others elaborated on how vital the port is to the shipping industry.

I guess since they are most likely going to pour the $$$ to rebuild - they'd better do it right this time. None of this "well we built the levees to withstand a CAT3 and just hope a CAT 4 or 5 doesn't swing through".

How about we groom the mouth of the Mississippi, and the channel.....and move it inland a bit: say, along the lines of Houston???

Any engineer types understand how feasible that might be? :hmmm:

[NewChief]

Ask the morons that insist on building their houses in the middle of huge flammable forests that burn every few years.

[Mr. Kotter]

Ask the morons that insist on building their houses in the middle of huge flammable forests that burn every few years.

The magnitude of those incidents is dwarfed by this one, I'd say....

[ROYC75]

The port is a very vital assest to our nation. The city does have questions because of the bowl effect.

It's not a question of rebuilding or not, it's more of a How do we rebuild to not allow this to happen again.

I'm not an engineer, but the only logical choice to rebuild is to drain the lake. Install new walls, bigger, thicker walls. Don't stop with just one wall, install another wall behind it or double the size of the 1st one. Don't play games with this thing again. The levees will have to be rebuilt as well, again to a higher standards.

Think about this, the Mississippi rarely floods New Orleans. Why ? Because they took the steps to stop it. The Lake wasn't given the same treatment as the river was.

Whatever a size huricane catagory 10 ( I know, no such thing ) would be is what is needed to prevent this from happening again.

[NewChief]

The magnitude of those incidents is dwarfed by this one, I'd say....

I agree with that. But the point is the same. If those people didn't have houses there, we could let those purging fires burn and we'd have healthy forests. But since they insist on building there, we have to take all kinds of ridiculous, and costly, measures to protect them and their investments.

[Mr. Kotter]

I agree with that. But the point is the same. If those people didn't have houses there, we could let those purging fires burn and we'd have healthy forests. But since they insist on building there, we have to take all kinds of ridiculous, and costly, measures to protect them and their investments.

Yeah, there's no easy answer I guess.

[Sam]

I heard a weather forecaster state this morning that it was common knowledge between meteorologists that any hurricane directly west of the Mississippi would wipeout the area.

How about this. Given the economic hardship befalling the country now, i.e.: the oil and gasoline shortages, because of the large concentration of crude oil refining factories in that area that are now out of business. What would keep terrorists from targeting this area in the future, after it's rebuilt, in an effort to cripple the U.S. economy yet again?

[Big Slick]

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results. (from the movie 28 Days)

Actually, it's from Albert Einstein.

Great quote, unfortunately it happens all the time...

[Mr. Kotter]

The port is a very vital assest to our nation. The city does have questions because of the bowl effect.

It's not a question of rebuilding or not, it's more of a How do we rebuild to not allow this to happen again.

I'm not an engineer, but the only logical choice to rebuild is to drain the lake. Install new walls, bigger, thicker walls. Don't stop with just one wall, install another wall behind it or double the size of the 1st one. Don't play games with this thing again. The levees will have to be rebuilt as well, again to a higher standards.

Think about this, the Mississippi rarely floods New Orleans. Why ? Because they took the steps to stop it. The Lake wasn't given the same treatment as the river was.

Whatever a size huricane catagory 10 ( I know, no such thing ) would be is what is needed to prevent this from happening again.

Yeah, I suspect that's probably right; and what will likely happen.

[Rain Man]

Great quote, unfortunately it happens all the time...


That's kind of mind-bending.

[cdcox]

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results. (from the movie 28 Days)

Great quotation, but most commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin or Albert Einstein.

[luv]

Actually, it's from Albert Einstein.

Great quote, unfortunately it happens all the time...
I knew I had heard it somewhere before watching that movie. That was the most recent thing I had to reference it from. I use that on my employees all the time at work. Just my cheerful way of calling them insane. :)

I think they just need to let New Orleans go. I hate saying that. It was a very interesting town with historical significance. But we can spend those billions on the people recovering from Katrina, and build new refineries and ports in another gulf-front city.

[Phobia]

What would keep terrorists from targeting this area in the future, after it's rebuilt, in an effort to cripple the U.S. economy yet again?

I dunno. Seems to me they could have caused just as much turmoil and more death by crashing a plane into the levee.

[Brock]

I don't believe that city will ever be rebuilt the way it was.

[Mr. Kotter]

I heard a weather forecaster state this morning that it was common knowledge between meteorologists that any hurricane directly west of the Mississippi would wipeout the area.

How about this. Given the economic hardship befalling the country now, i.e.: the oil and gasoline shortages, because of the large concentration of crude oil refining factories in that area that are now out of business. What would keep terrorists from targeting this area in the future, after it's rebuilt, in an effort to cripple the U.S. economy yet again?

That reminds me of a terrible thought I've had (I know I'm not the only one....), but wouldn't this be a really bad ("good" from their perspective, I suppose) time for terrorists to try and hit us.....when we are down..... :shake:

[REDHOTGTO]

my wife says i'm an insensitive bastard, but i think they were all living on borrowed time down there and california too! if they move back in there do'nt spend a friggin federal nickel on the stupid sob's for anything if it happens again, GET OUT ! LEAVE, MOVE TO ARKANSAS, do anything but rebuild in a bowl that most likely will fill up again. :banghead: how stupid can you be? just like california, they build houses on a dirt hill and ca'nt figger out why they slide off? then they go right back and rebuild with our money! :banghead: WTF
sure we dodge tornados but we have insurance for rebuilding, most people cannot get flood insurance PERIOD if you're in a flood plain but yet they get fed money to rebuild?WHY? if anyone has answers or if i'm wrong tell me ok?
goatboy

[Phobia]

I don't believe that city will ever be rebuilt the way it was.

No question. What insurance company is going to underwrite a policy there? I don't think people will be able to afford to live there now. This might not become an issue of the government deciding how to rebuild the city. The insurance industry may dictate where the city is rebuilt.

[luv]

I don't believe that city will ever be rebuilt the way it was.
Ditto.

You can replicate architecture from the 18th and 19th centuries, but, the fact is, it will have still been built in the 21th century. It will have lost its historical value.

[ROYC75]

Rest assure, New Orleans will be rebuilt. The port is that important because of the Mississippi River. It may not be as large and with all the fancy entertainment as before, but it will be rebuilt.

Moving it down the coast...... not going to happen, the water way is the big factor.

Farther upstream ....... maybe, but the cost wouldn't be any less than rebuilding the port where it is. Probally would cost a whole lot more to build.Keep in mind, many of the docks are OK, still usable.

[Brock]

Rest assure, New Orleans will be rebuilt.

I don't think so. There will still be business done there, but it is finished as a community.

[Hydrae]

my wife says i'm an insensitive bastard, but i think they were all living on borrowed time down there and california too! if they move back in there do'nt spend a friggin federal nickel on the stupid sob's for anything if it happens again, GET OUT ! LEAVE, MOVE TO ARKANSAS, do anything but rebuild in a bowl that most likely will fill up again. :banghead: how stupid can you be? just like california, they build houses on a dirt hill and ca'nt figger out why they slide off? then they go right back and rebuild with our money! :banghead: WTF
sure we dodge tornados but we have insurance for rebuilding, most people cannot get flood insurance PERIOD if you're in a flood plain but yet they get fed money to rebuild?WHY? if anyone has answers or if i'm wrong tell me ok?
goatboy


Those of you complaining about this kind of thing, look closer to home. How about those living in Cedar City (I think that is the name) by Jefferson City? Every time the Missouri river floods they lose their homes. Why don't they move up onto the bluff that the rest of Jeff City is on? I have wondered about that since they were completely wiped out in the big flood in what, 1992 or 3? Again, it was federal money that rebuilt those homes and has been on several occassions.

[Rain Man]

I think the bigger issue in rebuilding is land ownership. There are a lot of businesses that own land in New Orleans, and I doubt that the insurance covers land costs, only buildings.

Unless of course they decide to use that new Supreme Court (mis)ruling and just steal the land of a bunch of farmers upstream.

[Stinger]

My question is, IF that is truly the case.....why the hell would we spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" a "disaster, waiting to happen?"

:shrug:
Oh, I am sorry, I thought you were talking about the Chief's and how they went about fixing the defense after the 2003 season.

[go bo]

I think the bigger issue in rebuilding is land ownership. There are a lot of businesses that own land in New Orleans, and I doubt that the insurance covers land costs, only buildings.

Unless of course they decide to use that new Supreme Court (mis)ruling and just steal the land of a bunch of farmers upstream.i think that you're right about them eventually using that ruling to establish new residential areas on higher elevation...

but i think it could have been done under existing law because of what would seem to be an obvious "public use" of the property (for housing for displaced residents)...

[JimNasium]

Prolly already been said but I'm too lazy to read all of the responses. New Orleans is the largest and most important port in the United States. It is so important that they have spent millions (perhaps billions) trying to ensure that the Mississippi does not route itself away from the city. It is also a city of significant cultural import. Why didn't they abandon Venice or Amsterdam? It is human nature to not allow you culture to go away.

[Calcountry]

I heard a weather forecaster state this morning that it was common knowledge between meteorologists that any hurricane directly west of the Mississippi would wipeout the area.

How about this. Given the economic hardship befalling the country now, i.e.: the oil and gasoline shortages, because of the large concentration of crude oil refining factories in that area that are now out of business. What would keep terrorists from targeting this area in the future, after it's rebuilt, in an effort to cripple the U.S. economy yet again?Heavens, for that matter, they should strike now on a different region of the country in an effort to mortally wound us.

All of our recovery efforts are being diverted to NO, another blow could cripple our economy for good.

[siberian khatru]

Prolly already been said but I'm too lazy to read all of the responses. New Orleans is the largest and most important port in the United States. It is so important that they have spent millions (perhaps billions) trying to ensure that the Mississippi does not route itself away from the city. It is also a city of significant cultural import. Why didn't they abandon Venice or Amsterdam? It is human nature to not allow you culture to go away.


Looks like Savannah's just going to have to step up and take its place.

[JimNasium]

Looks like Savannah's just going to have to step up and take its place.
Funny you should say that as Galveston was in competion with Houston as the port of significance in Texas. Galveston was taken out of contention in 1900 by hurricane.

[Mr. Kotter]

Funny you should say that as Galveston was in competion with Houston as the port of significance in Texas. Galveston was taken out of contention in 1900 by hurricane.

Wouldn't it be ironic, then? :hmmm:

[StcChief]

I Said move it up river yesterday.

Don't rebuild in current location.

[Mr. Kotter]

I Said move it up river yesterday.

Don't rebuild in current location.

I knew this wasn't an original thought; I was just too lazy to wade through those monster threads....since I've been late to the whole Katrina episode, distracted by the beginning of school and all.

[E@SHSU]

Houston isn't all that secure either. Tropical storm Allison flooded the city out back in 2001. Additionally, if Katrina would have been affected by some other sort of weather front (low pressure, I'm not a meterologist) the Space Sity would be under water. It's just the risk you take living here.

Oh, and sometimes you just don't have an option to move. Sometimes there is a job that may hold you in a certain area.

[Red and Gold Mania]

4:07 p.m. - WASHINGTON (AP): It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to rebuild a city that's seven feet under sea level, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said of federal assistance for hurricane-devastated New Orleans.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by wwltv.com blog
4:07 p.m. - WASHINGTON (AP): It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to rebuild a city that's seven feet under sea level, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said of federal assistance for hurricane-devastated New Orleans.

:spock:

Wow. A politician making sense. :clap:

[plbrdude]

Okay, can someone help me out here???

I have a serious question....

I've heard numerous experts say, "Yeah....we've known all along that New Orleans was a disaster, waiting to happen" and similar such things.

My question is, IF that is truly the case.....why the hell would we spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" a "disaster, waiting to happen?"

:shrug:
so it can happen again someday :hmmm:

[Tinlar]

Every place in the world has some type of natural disaster that can occur there at any moment and that is disregarded as daily life by those that live in that region.

I'm from central Texas. I took my frist business trip to Cali a little over 8 years ago. While having a working dinner there was an earthquake. Now I call it an earthquake because the ground moved. The locals laughed at me for wanting to even talk about it and it was reported in the friggin weather section of the morning paper the next day.

They on the other hand could fathom how I had decided to live in a region that had frequent tornados.

[Rain Man]

I find it interesting that my own community, Denver, appears to be very low risk from a natural disaster standpoint. We have relatively few tornadoes, no hurricanes, a low risk of earthquakes, no large rivers to flood for the most part, and no great clouds of insects or anything. We just get a bunch of picturesque snow every once in a while, and the rural folks get forest fires.

I think my biggest concern is that Yellowstone will wake up and become a supervolcano. That would suck.

[Hydrae]

I find it interesting that my own community, Denver, appears to be very low risk from a natural disaster standpoint. We have relatively few tornadoes, no hurricanes, a low risk of earthquakes, no large rivers to flood for the most part, and no great clouds of insects or anything. We just get a bunch of picturesque snow every once in a while, and the rural folks get forest fires.

I think my biggest concern is that Yellowstone will wake up and become a supervolcano. That would suck.


If Yellowstone blows like they say it could, it won't matter where you are it will suck.

[siberian khatru]

I find it interesting that my own community, Denver, appears to be very low risk from a natural disaster standpoint. We have relatively few tornadoes, no hurricanes, a low risk of earthquakes, no large rivers to flood for the most part, and no great clouds of insects or anything. We just get a bunch of picturesque snow every once in a while, and the rural folks get forest fires.

I think my biggest concern is that Yellowstone will wake up and become a supervolcano. That would suck.

I would think many of Jake Plummer's starts would be classified as natural disasters.

[Rain Man]

I would think many of Jake Plummer's starts would be classified as natural disasters.

Actually, those are manmade disasters. They're a lot more fun to watch than natural disasters.

[Phobia]

Funny you should say that as Galveston was in competion with Houston as the port of significance in Texas. Galveston was taken out of contention in 1900 by hurricane.

Funny you mention that, it's really the same thing except 100 years later. Houston dredged a ship channel all the way from the gulf in order to adequately ship. I'd think NOLA could also dredge a ship channel anywhere to rebuild in a more sensical locale.

[Skip Towne]

Funny you mention that, it's really the same thing except 100 years later. Houston dredged a ship channel all the way from the gulf in order to adequately ship. I'd think NOLA could also dredge a ship channel anywhere to rebuild in a more sensical locale.
Yeah, I'm all about sensical.

[bringbackmarty]

I find it interesting that my own community, Denver, appears to be very low risk from a natural disaster standpoint. We have relatively few tornadoes, no hurricanes, a low risk of earthquakes, no large rivers to flood for the most part, and no great clouds of insects or anything. We just get a bunch of picturesque snow every once in a while, and the rural folks get forest fires.

I think my biggest concern is that Yellowstone will wake up and become a supervolcano. That would suck.
trouble is, it's boring there.

[Garcia Bronco]

Okay, can someone help me out here???

I have a serious question....

I've heard numerous experts say, "Yeah....we've known all along that New Orleans was a disaster, waiting to happen" and similar such things.

My question is, IF that is truly the case.....why the hell would we spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" a "disaster, waiting to happen?"

:shrug:

They've known for the longest time that this could happen...they had chemical plants in that bowl......they've known for years and done nothing. Weak leadership. And it will get much worse before it gets better. The keep talking about rebuild New Orleans...they won't be able to...and you can take it to the bank.

No Bank will loan money on the property...and no insurance company will insure it...and if they do...no one will be able to afford the premiums...and...here's the kicker....it could just happen again. And they keep talking about pumping out the water...BTF not....they'll just pollute the enviroment.

Lastly...Gov Balanco is a ****ing moron...and in hindsight the President should have taken complete control as soon as the storm left town.

[Garcia Bronco]

my wife says i'm an insensitive bastard, but i think they were all living on borrowed time down there and california too! if they move back in there do'nt spend a friggin federal nickel on the stupid sob's for anything if it happens again, GET OUT ! LEAVE, MOVE TO ARKANSAS, do anything but rebuild in a bowl that most likely will fill up again. :banghead: how stupid can you be? just like california, they build houses on a dirt hill and ca'nt figger out why they slide off? then they go right back and rebuild with our money! :banghead: WTF
sure we dodge tornados but we have insurance for rebuilding, most people cannot get flood insurance PERIOD if you're in a flood plain but yet they get fed money to rebuild?WHY? if anyone has answers or if i'm wrong tell me ok?
goatboy
No bank will write paper on a home in a flood plain without flood insurance.

[Calcountry]

Every place in the world has some type of natural disaster that can occur there at any moment and that is disregarded as daily life by those that live in that region.

I'm from central Texas. I took my frist business trip to Cali a little over 8 years ago. While having a working dinner there was an earthquake. Now I call it an earthquake because the ground moved. The locals laughed at me for wanting to even talk about it and it was reported in the friggin weather section of the morning paper the next day.

They on the other hand could fathom how I had decided to live in a region that had frequent tornados.I am 40 years old and have lived in California all my life.

In that span of time, we have had one catastrophic earthquake in 1989.

Pros: It only happened once, and unless you were on the Bay Bridge right on that one span, or under the Cypress freeway structure, no harm no foul.

Cons: It was unannounced so there is no way to prepare other than to be well drilled on what to do when one happens, perhaps a small horde of essentials such as water and a power generator and some fuel might help.

Sorry, but I will take that record vs the annual head to the basement there is a tornado warning/hurricane warning. Its no contest.

[tk13]

I am 40 years old and have lived in California all my life.

In that span of time, we have had one catastrophic earthquake in 1989.

Pros: It only happened once, and unless you were on the Bay Bridge right on that one span, or under the Cypress freeway structure, no harm no foul.

Cons: It was unannounced so there is no way to prepare other than to be well drilled on what to do when one happens, perhaps a small horde of essentials such as water and a power generator and some fuel might help.

Sorry, but I will take that record vs the annual head to the basement there is a tornado warning/hurricane warning. Its no contest.
I don't know, you cannot truly be ready for an earthquake like you can a tornado/hurricane. At least with those two you have some time to prepare to be blasted so you can be in a safe place, and not somewhere like a highway overpass..

[JimNasium]

..and...here's the kicker....it could just happen again. And they keep talking about pumping out the water...BTF not....they'll just pollute the enviroment.
We aren't out of the woods just yet. It's still hurricane season until November. Imagine what happens if they get hit by a CAT-1 or a tropical storm. :shake:

[Fairplay]

Im not an engineer, but the more i think about what NO will have to redo when ever the flood waters finally subside, the more i think its better if they just move the city to higher ground.

Logically building a city below sea level is insane. Its a catastrophe waiting to happen. Some annoncers were taliking about how the poor the city actually was, before the flood. Rebuild the city back to its near poverty level. Thats smart.

Plus insurance costs for them here on out i don't even want to think about. They talk about rebuilding, but sometimes you have to face the truth and do what makes sense.

[Calcountry]

The whole thing reminds me of the movie "Escape from New York".

they should just wall the fuggin thing off and let "the Duke of NO" run things.

[Stinger]

The whole thing reminds me of the movie "Escape from New York".

they should just wall the fuggin thing off and let "the Duke of NO" run things.


ROFL I said the same thing yeasterday

[Garcia Bronco]

ROFL I said the same thing yeasterday

So did I..but I said Escape from LA...and the LA stands for Louisiana

[NewChief]

The whole thing reminds me of the movie "Escape from New York".

they should just wall the fuggin thing off and let "the Duke of NO" run things.

The Silver Dome reminds me of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. MASTER BLASTER!

[jidar]

This was preventable. There were plans in place and underway to shore up those levees so they could withstand a much worse hurrican including flooding. The money was there and it was approved by congress... unfortunately it was diverted to help cover costs in Iraq and the project was put on hold.

It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.

-- Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; New Orleans Times-Picayune, June 8, 2004.

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html

At least we got the terrorists responsible for 9/11! .. er.. wait.. damn...