Lend me your ear.

[Scorp]

I don't get emotional about many issues, but after watching coverage of the aftermath of Katrina I am sick to my stomach. There are focking Baby's dying. Men, women, children are dying as well. I guess it's the Baby's that are really getting to me being I have two small children. I know that they were all told to leave prior to Katrina hitting. Most of these people there had no means to leave. Public transportation was NOT provided. Alot of people had no money to leave with. My God how do our officials do nothing for four damn days? Help should of been deployed the minute the levees broke. I guess I just don't get this world anymore. To top it off, can you think of a more crippling time for a terrorist attack on us to happen? I never thought I would feel this way but today I feel ashamed to be an American.

Please donate any cash amount you can, even if it is one dollar.

[Halfcan]

Good post dude. Yeah I have three kids and I just can't even watch it. It reminds me of the OK bombing and the firemen carrying the dead kid. I turned on the tv to that image and will never get it out of my head. America will bounce back. And we will have to do it ourselves. We gave millions to the Tsunami relief-but do you think China or Russia or anyone is going to help us? Yeah lots of things seem unimportant about now.

[Taco John]

Good post dude. Yeah I have three kids and I just can't even watch it. It reminds me of the OK bombing and the firemen carrying the dead kid. I turned on the tv to that image and will never get it out of my head. America will bounce back. And we will have to do it ourselves. We gave millions to the Tsunami relief-but do you think China or Russia or anyone is going to help us? Yeah lots of things seem unimportant about now.



Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself. (http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=URI:urn:newsml:reuters.com:20050902:MTFH50627_2005-09-02_01-51-52_N01481437:1)


...


The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

[the Talking Can]

It's the first time I've seen this country incapable of solving a problem.

[Phobia]

It's a doozie of a problem, though. You've gotta admit.

We'll get it solved. It has been a frick'n nightmare, though. I wouldn't want to be an elected official in Louisianna in the next election. I'm thinking there won't be many retaining their current positions.

[Pitt Gorilla]

We gave millions to the Tsunami relief-but do you think China or Russia or anyone is going to help us? Yeah lots of things seem unimportant about now.Actually, I'm pretty sure they will. Why would you think otherwise?

[Phobia]

Well.... who's gonna be there to vote?

The rest of the state? :shrug:

[Imon Yourside]

I really don't give a flying f*** about the elected officials. All I can think of is the poor peeps that lost their lives or their loved ones and are probably halfway to stir-crazy by now. My mind can't even comprehend what is going on, I can't imagine how/what I would be feeling if i was actually part of it.

[1adam1238]

We want to see some damn action...and it appears there not getting it done.

[KCTitus]

How do you fix a problem when the 'help' is being shot at...that's the thing I dont get.

[chagrin]

Nah.


I don't recall the actual statistics, but more than 50% of the popluation of the state reside in Southern Louisiana (growing up there, I was always pissed off because the lottery winners were ALWAYS from South La.), that's quite a chunk of voters missing, displaced or dead from this thing. So, I would guess that voting will be feast or famine next round.

[Hammock Parties]

I wouldn't want to be an elected official in Louisianna in the next election. I'm thinking there won't be many retaining their current positions.

They're pretty corrupt down there. The mayor is a dirtbag.

[Otter]

In all likely hood I'll be going down to one of the disaster sites with the Red Cross for 4 to 12 weeks to help clean up. I still have to pass a physical, take a three day class and get the OK from work, none of which should be a problem.

They've had so many volenteers from this area they may not need anymore and I'll be put on a standby list. Time will tell.

My biggest concern is being mentally prepared for what will be found under all that water.

[Hammock Parties]

Wow, you are to be commended. Why are you doing this?

[teedubya]

My biggest concern is being mentally prepared for what will be found under all that water.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~ecf/glurpo.GIF

Watch out for Glurpo, the underwater clown. ROFL

j/k very honorable what you are doing... Good luck bro.

[Otter]

Wow, you are to be commended. Why are you doing this?

Just a chance to help out in a time when it's needed. I'm in good shape all around and have no one to take care of but myself in life so it's not like my absence will effect anyone but myself and the souless corperation I work for.

Karma...sincere good will...penance for past mistakes...who knows?

Heard they needed volenteers on the radio and took a long lunch and went down and volenteered.

[the Talking Can]

http://www.speakeasy.org/~ecf/glurpo.GIF



wtf?

ROFL

"very honorable what you are doing... Good luck bro."

yes, ditto...

[tomahawk kid]

It's the first time I've seen this country incapable of solving a problem.

That's what I was thinking.

They had the head of FEMA on CNN this morning. Calling this guy and a$$ monkey, a clown or any other of my usual "descriptions" falls short.

He admitted that he didn't even know about the people at the NO Convention Center UNTIL HE SAW IT ON TV yesterday? WTF? Nothing like admitted incompetence to raise the ol' ratings in the court of public opinion.

He said the reason that people were dying in New Orleans proper was due to "search and rescue" and "feeding those people that they find." in other areas.

Um....call me crazy...but shouldn't you go ahead and feed the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of people at a central location, who came there because they were told there would be relief? Why are you looking for people when you now KNOW you have thousands at the convention center who have been without food and water for ALMOST 5 DAYS?!!

I'm so pissed about this, I'm just about beside myself

[KCTitus]

Keep us posted Otter...would be interested to get a firsthand account of the cleanup.

[Archie F. Swin]

I thought on Sunday sheltering people in downtown NOLA before the storm was a bad idea. How did any "official" think anything but this would happen. The only thing I thought would happen that hasn't yet was the collapse of the Superdome. This will go down as one of the worst pre-disaster decisions in U.S. history. I can't help but think that were just hours away from a series of uncontrolable fires in the in New Orleans.

[Iowanian]

I don't comprehend how the GOVT can be catching so much heat for a Natural Disaster.

They warned people and declared emergency PRIOR to the hurricane hitting. They placed some supplies, and probably would have been prepared for the storm damage alone.........

We're talking a million+ displaced people, over a 90,000 square mile area. They're deploying Troops to FIGHT rioting, looting, thieving Raping Thugs, so they can fuggin rescue people. They're dropping supplies by the ton, they're evacuating people.

The logistics to make ANY of that happen must be incredible. Its been what, 3 days? I don't see anyway, they could have just microwaved this like a bag of popcorn, like some of you expect.

[Uatu]

The problem will be solved, but it's going to take more than what, 2 or 3 days to get a full 'help' operation down there and going. I think it's fair to say that the damage has been beyond what most anyone expected beforehand.

We've solved everything before, we always do, and this one will get figured out too.

[Otter]

Keep us posted Otter...would be interested to get a firsthand account of the cleanup.

Just for the record: all I did was fill out some paperwork so far, nothing is for sure, they may not even need me at this point. I didn't go down till yesterday.

But if it does happen I do plan on having a digital camera. Will certainly share things IF it happens.

[nolimitpk]

Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself. (http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=URI:urn:newsml:reuters.com:20050902:MTFH50627_2005-09-02_01-51-52_N01481437:1)


...


The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

Something tells me the administration of the United States has failed to act swiftly. Funny how things work. I want to let you all know now whats obvious. THEY DONT CARE. If this was to fight terrorists we would have been there much sooner. Republicans have always been know for the humanitarian efforts they so devoutly disown.

The right aint right.
To make matters worse, the chief of the Louisiana State Police said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers — many of whom were from flooded areas — turning in their badges.

[Lbedrock1]

I don't get emotional about many issues, but after watching coverage of the aftermath of Katrina I am sick to my stomach. There are focking Baby's dying. Men, women, children are dying as well. I guess it's the Baby's that are really getting to me being I have two small children. I know that they were all told to leave prior to Katrina hitting. Most of these people there had no means to leave. Public transportation was NOT provided. Alot of people had no money to leave with. My God how do our officials do nothing for four damn days? Help should of been deployed the minute the levees broke. I guess I just don't get this world anymore. To top it off, can you think of a more crippling time for a terrorist attack on us to happen? I never thought I would feel this way but today I feel ashamed to be an American.

Please donate any cash amount you can, even if it is one dollar.
I feel that same way but the truth is most of those people are poor and black so that puts them very low on our governments list of priorities. Just being black puts them low on the priority list.

[Iowanian]

"the govt" hates black people now?

Aren't the mayor of NO and Gov of LA Black?

Please.

[jspchief]

Just a little fuel to the fire... FEMA is spending $500 million per day on this failure of a relief operation.

[Soupnazi]

For sure, the situation needs to improve. But I also think that no one can really comprehend the complexity of the situation down there.

How do you coordinate efforts from washington to local officials when the entire communications grid has been destroyed?

How do you organize the police and guard troops when they have no way to communicate plans and orders?

How much time does it take to assemble millions of gallons of water, millions of pounds of food, medicine, etc, and get it loaded up, transport it to the area and get it distributed to people who are strung all over god's creation?

How do you get supplies to regions where there is no access by roads?

How do you get fuel to evacuation vehicles when there's no pumps active and no fuel supplies?

It's an absolutely enormous area and a huge amount of damage has been done. I'm reminded of the ice storm a few years ago in KC where power lines were knocked down. I had one buddy who lived off of generator power for 23 days straight. And that situation was nothing compared to this. Imagine that effect to the entire KC metro area, combined with downed trees, and a flood, no electricity and no fuel to get people moved around. The same thing would've been happening here.

The situation will improve slowly but surely, and unfortunately, the price of a major storm like this always is always high in human lives, whether it is during the storm or the aftermath. We are fragile creatures and take the relative safety of our controlled environments for granted.

[Lbedrock1]

How do you fix a problem when the 'help' is being shot at...that's the thing I dont get.
Well lets see how easy this would have been to fix.
Problem: we know what happened
Solution: First get as many national guard troops from surrounding states as humanly possible to keep some since order in the kaos and not just post them where the water is but where the people are. The news crews were able to get there to report the news so why aren't the NG troops where they are? Once that was done it would be easier for rescuer to do their jobs and food and medical supply's could get there without disruption. Our Gov let that area become a lawless place and they pretend as if they care. Where there is absents of light darkness prevails and it becomes only the strongest survive.

[Sam]

It's a shame for sure. It's not like everyone didn't know the winds and rain were coming. Help could have been planned way in advance ofr this tragedy.

My trek into work this morning on the interstate was slowed the last 2+ miles before my exit. When I got to my exit I found out why. There was a convoy of Army, maybe reserves I'm not sure, sitting on the shoulder. I'm guessing they were deployed for NO. But there was a problem though, it's probably the reason they were sitting on the side of the road, they were on the NORTH bound side of the highway.

[Lbedrock1]

"the govt" hates black people now?

Aren't the mayor of NO and Gov of LA Black?

Please.
Hate is a strong word. The gov put blacks overall low on the priority list. So if you want to get a attitude about it get it toward our society not towards those that point out the truth to you. You know had this been a uppermiddle class white american city relief would have taken all but a day and a half to reach them. Anyone with half of a brain knows the first thing you have to do in a kaos is restore order then you can go to work. The first thing that happened here was kaos begat kaos and the gov sat back and watched. Now they are on TV talking about what they are doing. I figure if the news crews can get their everyone else that needs to be there can get there also. They had a plan to evacuate the storm there should have been a plan of rescue because we all knew everyone was not going to leave. So there is no excuse for people down there to be without right now.

[Iowanian]

Bullshit.

[Lbedrock1]

Bullshit.
Your right

[nolimitpk]

Profits (not revenues) were up 10 billion dollars for Exxon/Mobil over the
last 24 months.

[Soupnazi]

Hate is a strong word. The gov put blacks overall low on the priority list. So if you want to get a attitude about it get it toward our society not towards those that point out the truth to you. You know had this been a uppermiddle class white american city relief would have taken all but a day and a half to reach them. Anyone with half of a brain knows the first thing you have to do in a kaos is restore order then you can go to work. The first thing that happened here was kaos begat kaos and the gov sat back and watched. Now they are on TV talking about what they are doing. I figure if the news crews can get their everyone else that needs to be there can get there also. They had a plan to evacuate the storm there should have been a plan of rescue because we all knew everyone was not going to leave. So there is no excuse for people down there to be without right now.

Is that why I see all those relief trucks and buses headed into poor white country of Mississippi right now?

[Soupnazi]

Profits (not revenues) were up 10 billion dollars for Exxon/Mobil over the
last 24 months.

At a time when they're pumping a record amount of crude and refining a record amount of gasoline. Go figure. What does Exxon/Mobil have to do with hurricane relief? I mean besides the billions of dollars shareholders have lost due to the storm and the millions lost to their drilling platforms being destroyed. And besides the millions of dollars they've donated so far to hurricane relief?

A gallon of milk is more expensive than it has ever been as well. Are you going to blame the dairy industry too?

[jcl-kcfan2]

That guy talking political and the other talking racist about this are nearly scary in thier ignorance.

Makes me shudder.

LB and NL, can you not possibly understand the gigantic logistical nightmare that this event is?

[Iowanian]

Your right

I know its fun for you, being a martyr...but you're completely full of shit.



It'd be great if the people down there would stop raping kids in shelters, murdering, looting Big Screens, burning things and SHOOTING AT RELIEF WORKERS who are TRYING TO HELP THEM.

if anyone has a racial issue with this....it must be mother nature, for selecting that area......unless you believe "whitey" programmed that area to get hit with the worst natural disaster in our history.

[Iowanian]

Profits (not revenues) were up 10 billion dollars for Exxon/Mobil over the
last 24 months.

Please go drown yourself in a filthy porta-potty. You are of ZERO use to the board. Please strongly consider banning this dipshit.

[KCTitus]

Well lets see how easy this would have been to fix.
Problem: we know what happened
Solution: First get as many national guard troops from surrounding states as humanly possible...

Yep, mobilizing thousands of troops is cake...

[CosmicPal]

I feel that same way but the truth is most of those people are poor and black so that puts them very low on our governments list of priorities. Just being black puts them low on the priority list.

Well, that's damn near the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. These are PEOPLE with families and lives. PEOPLE who are women and children. Some PEOPLE who had no choice, but to stay. SOME were handicapped. Some were in hospitals. It's NOT about poor or black- for the love of your ignorant gawd, stop playing the race card on everything.

[Iowanian]

don't you see cosmic....bedrock is the consumate victim.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/b/b8/Ear.jpg

[Soupnazi]

I must've missed the news report where the white residents of the mississippi gulf coast were lodging at the Ritz Carlton eating filet mignon and getting sponge-bathed by the swedish bikini team.

[Pennywise]

I know its fun for you, being a martyr...but you're completely full of shit.



It'd be great if the people down there would stop raping kids in shelters, murdering, looting Big Screens, burning things and SHOOTING AT RELIEF WORKERS who are TRYING TO HELP THEM.

if anyone has a racial issue with this....it must be mother nature, for selecting that area......unless you believe "whitey" programmed that area to get hit with the worst natural disaster in our history.


Right. Turning an American city into Somalia 2005 is not exactly the African Americans finest hour.

[Rain Man]

I honestly don't see how anyone can think that race is playing a factor in the rescue effort. It's just poor execution. Very poor execution.

And frankly, I think it's made worse by the fact that the people who are left are the people who were not necessarily self-sufficient even in normal times. These are the folks who didn't have the resources or the brains to get out when they were warned to get out.

[jspchief]

And frankly, I think it's made worse by the fact that the people who are left are the people who were not necessarily self-sufficient even in normal times. These are the folks who didn't have the resources or the brains to get out when they were warned to get out.I think that is a very valid point.

[Jenny Gump]

Ok, I was listening to this conservative talk show idiot (he's local, and sucks, that's why he's an idiot, not because he's conservative) and he said the whole problem with the Superdome and Convention Center situation is that people are depending on the gov't to bail them out. He further pointed out that if it weren't for the liberal mindset, they would just "leave and get out of there" but instead are waiting around for help. His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

[KCTitus]

...His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

Dunno, really. I think if I were in that situation, I probably would have started walking.

[stevieray]

I honestly don't see how anyone can think that race is playing a factor in the rescue effort. It's just poor execution. Very poor execution.

And frankly, I think it's made worse by the fact that the people who are left are the people who were not necessarily self-sufficient even in normal times. These are the folks who didn't have the resources or the brains to get out when they were warned to get out.


Coupled with the fact that some stayed for materialistic gain and criminal activity.

[tomahawk kid]

Ok, I was listening to this conservative talk show idiot (he's local, and sucks, that's why he's an idiot, not because he's conservative) and he said the whole problem with the Superdome and Convention Center situation is that people are depending on the gov't to bail them out. He further pointed out that if it weren't for the liberal mindset, they would just "leave and get out of there" but instead are waiting around for help. His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

I was thinking that, but - where are they supposed to go?

To me, it's either stay in a central location where your odds of EVENTUALLY getting help are pretty good OR strike out on your own and take your chances.

Doesn't seem like much of a decision to me.

[Soupnazi]

Ok, I was listening to this conservative talk show idiot (he's local, and sucks, that's why he's an idiot, not because he's conservative) and he said the whole problem with the Superdome and Convention Center situation is that people are depending on the gov't to bail them out. He further pointed out that if it weren't for the liberal mindset, they would just "leave and get out of there" but instead are waiting around for help. His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that that type of pointless rhetoric is no more helpful than those idiots who want to score political points on the President right now. His time would be better spend encouraging people to donate to help the cause. I see no fault with the people who are peaceful and waiting for the cavalry to arrive. I can't blame people for standing around where they've been told to when they've already survived the conditions they've been through.

That being said, I can see his point about depending on the government to help you. I would've loaded up with supplies and got my family out when I was told, so that I didn't have to depend on the government response to take care of me.

[Andoverer]

When I was watching this unbelievable news last night I thought surely every organization involved in the relief would drop the red tape, get 200 buses down there within the hour and relieve this mess all through the night and show immediate response so as to get the egg off their faces. I'm reading the latest news on the web within the last 10 minutes as of 10:30 am, 5 days later and all that's happening is National Guard vehicles and helicopters buzzing around the place and these people are STILL NOT GETTING ANY HELP! I can't believe any of it. There will no doubt be some serious political and social repercussions for some folks and organizations in power when this is all done.

[CosmicPal]

His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

A lot of these people are looking for their loved ones who were lifted off their roofs by a helicopter without knowing where they were going. Later, when they were dropped off, they were expecting to find their loved ones, but they haven't been able to....

I think it's safe to say that they don't KNOW what to do. They don't have radio, TV, phones, or any means of communication. They are simply wandering around aimlessly- tired, hot, hungry, thirsty, dirty, and disgusted with waiting for something to happen.

Just start walking to where? I wouldn't be leaving town until I found my family members who were lifted off the roofs 'cause when I jump on that bus to Houston, or Tallahassee, or Memphis, or wherever they're going- I may never see my family again. That's a harsh reality to live with.

[Rain Man]

Dunno, really. I think if I were in that situation, I probably would have started walking.

Gotta be honest. I'd be walking, too, or building a raft or something. I'm not big on crowds, particularly desperate crowds, and I'd rather strike out in my own.

[Hoover]

I'm pissed that it seems as if people think this should be all cleand up and rebuilt in a matter of days or weeks. As Americans we all have problems of wanting something now, and for 99% of the time it works that way.

If you compare Katrina to Sept 11th, Katrina is a much bigger problem when you are dealing with Logistics. We have Hundreds of Square miles to cover with this storm.

I think there are things that should have been done faster, for me, getting the Navy to start steaming towards the Gulf on Monday would have been smart, but who knows.

I think our main focus need to be on the future of the area. Most of the people syuck in NO are the poor and homeless, I think NO has a poverty rate of 30%. What we need to do is get these people to shelters, cleaned up, fed, and then the Government needs to hire them at 20 bucks an hour to assist in the clean up/reconstruction of the area. This will take time, but I think this is the best way to deal with it.

[Iowanian]

I think the difference is.....when I saw a hurricane coming, and the govt said "hey everyone...a big, bad mofo of a hurricane is coming and you could be in deep shit...get out"..............I'd have put my family on my back and carried them out if I had to.

If I'd have stayed like an idiot.......I'd sure think I'd be trying to DO something to get them out, if it meant walking instead of sitting around bitching.

I know some people just don't have the means, physically, mentally and whatnot.....and I feel badly for them. Hopefully, my contributions will help them.

Sometimes, you have to "get Busy Living...or get busy dieing".

[Hoover]

I think the difference is.....when I saw a hurricane coming, and the govt said "hey everyone...a big, bad mofo of a hurricane is coming and you could be in deep shit...get out"..............I'd have put my family on my back and carried them out if I had to.

If I'd have stayed like an idiot.......I'd sure think I'd be trying to DO something to get them out, if it meant walking instead of sitting around bitching.

I know some people just don't have the means, physically, mentally and whatnot.....and I feel badly for them. Hopefully, my contributions will help them.

Sometimes, you have to "get Busy Living...or get busy dieing".
I agree, is the Governor of Iowa or the Presidient told me something bad ass was coming and I should leave, I would get my wife, the cat, and some clothes, cash and what ever and head out fast.

I don't care if I was flat ass broke, I would ask for help, I would steal shit, I'd do anything to protect my family.

[Andoverer]

I think the difference is.....when I saw a hurricane coming, and the govt said "hey everyone...a big, bad mofo of a hurricane is coming and you could be in deep shit...get out"..............I'd have put my family on my back and carried them out if I had to.

If I'd have stayed like an idiot.......I'd sure think I'd be trying to DO something to get them out, if it meant walking instead of sitting around bitching.

I know some people just don't have the means, physically, mentally and whatnot.....and I feel badly for them. Hopefully, my contributions will help them.

Sometimes, you have to "get Busy Living...or get busy dieing".

I hear that, but some people were just stuck. Especially the hospitalized and tourists. Delta airlines has come under criticism for abandoning flights out of New Orleans when there was still quite a bit of time left to get it done. Now you're stuck in an airport with no rental cars left and the Mississippi river and Lake Pontchartrain mere blocks away.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

how do you out walk a hurricane

[Rain Man]

how do you out walk a hurricane


You get a head start.


Actually, my comment was about the folks there now. I don't think I'd be in that convention center at this point. I'd be 25 miles north and still walking, and looking for picket fences that have those "hobo friendly" marks.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

You get a head start.


Actually, my comment was about the folks there now. I don't think I'd be in that convention center at this point. I'd be 25 miles north and still walking, and looking for picket fences that have those "hobo friendly" marks.

bodies & piles of human poo? I'm outa there.

[Rain Man]

bodies & piles of human poo? I'm outa there.


Yup. I walk at about three miles per hour. One 12-hour day, and I'm 36 miles away, where the air is clean and the water is cold.

[Bowser]

Now they are talking about two more storms brewing in the Atlantic.

[Andoverer]

Yup. I walk at about three miles per hour. One 12-hour day, and I'm 36 miles away, where the air is clean and the water is cold.

Yep that would be my plan too.

[Bwana]

Now they are talking about two more storms brewing in the Atlantic.

The sobering part is, peak hurricane season doesn't start until mid September or so. All this country needs is for one more monster to hit our shores at some point this year.

[Dartgod]

Well lets see how easy this would have been to fix.
Problem: we know what happened
Solution: First get as many national guard troops from surrounding states as humanly possible...
How to become a millionaire:

First, get a million dollars...

[Taco John]

I don't comprehend how the GOVT can be catching so much heat for a Natural Disaster.




I don't know what you are talking about. I haven't seen even a single person blaming the government FOR the hurricane I have seen plenty of much earned blame for their weak response so far.

They're bickering over whose budgets get used for relief while people are trapped in their houses.

How long does it take the national guard to respond?

Our government response to this has been incredibly weak.

[Bowser]

The sobering part is, peak hurricane season doesn't start until mid September or so. All this country needs is for one more monster to hit our shores at some point this year.

CNN did a "projected path" on the first one, and it was eerily similar to Katrina.

On a related note, Japan is about to get crushed with their own Category 5 storm/tsunami. Last I heard, it was closing in on Okinawa.

[Taco John]

Oh yes, and don't forget that the Army Corp of Engineers have been warning about this for years, only to get rewarded with budget cuts.

[Andoverer]

The sobering part is, peak hurricane season doesn't start until mid September or so. All this country needs is for one more monster to hit our shores at some point this year.

This is from the Weather Center

Tropical Storm Maria (formerly Tropical Depression 14) is strengthening well to the east-northeast of the northern Leeward Islands as thunderstorms flare near the center of the circulation. This is the earliest formation for the 13th storm in any season since 1851. It is expected to strengthen more but probably stay below hurricane strength. Maria future track is forecast to change from west-northwest to north-northwest, taking the tropical storm well east of Bermuda, and at this point not forecast to affect the U.S.

Another area of low pressure with pulsing thunderstorms around it continues to spin westward over the central Atlantic Ocean. This system has good potential for development, but it is well away from any land areas for the time being. That being said, it may be deemed a depression some time today.

[Bowser]

CNN did a "projected path" on the first one, and it was eerily similar to Katrina.

On a related note, Japan is about to get crushed with their own Category 5 storm/tsunami. Last I heard, it was closing in on Okinawa.

Check it out. Looks just like Katrina before it hit.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/map/JAXX0085

Click on "Asian Satellite" in the pulldown window.

[Bowser]

This is from the Weather Center

Tropical Storm Maria (formerly Tropical Depression 14) is strengthening well to the east-northeast of the northern Leeward Islands as thunderstorms flare near the center of the circulation. This is the earliest formation for the 13th storm in any season since 1851. It is expected to strengthen more but probably stay below hurricane strength. Maria future track is forecast to change from west-northwest to north-northwest, taking the tropical storm well east of Bermuda, and at this point not forecast to affect the U.S.

Another area of low pressure with pulsing thunderstorms around it continues to spin westward over the central Atlantic Ocean. This system has good potential for development, but it is well away from any land areas for the time being. That being said, it may be deemed a depression some time today.

Good. One of the talking heads was trying to say it was on a "similar path" to Katrina.

[KC Dan]

Oh yes, and don't forget that the Army Corp of Engineers have been warning about this for years, only to get rewarded with budget cuts.
Yep, for about 100 years.

[patteeu]

Profits (not revenues) were up 10 billion dollars for Exxon/Mobil over the
last 24 months.

I suppose that's a bad thing? :rolleyes:

I guess you would prefer that they try to do charity work and go out of business in the process?

[patteeu]

Ok, I was listening to this conservative talk show idiot (he's local, and sucks, that's why he's an idiot, not because he's conservative) and he said the whole problem with the Superdome and Convention Center situation is that people are depending on the gov't to bail them out. He further pointed out that if it weren't for the liberal mindset, they would just "leave and get out of there" but instead are waiting around for help. His solution...they should "just start walking".

What are your thoughts?

I might be the least informed person on the whole board wrt this event because I don't get 24-hour cable news in my home so take this with a grain of salt, but I vaguely recall hearing that people were not being allowed to leave the SuperDome once they entered. I don't know if this was just a temporary situation or whether it continues through today, but if this is true it would explain why more people aren't just starting to walk.

[Coach]

Good. One of the talking heads was trying to say it was on a "similar path" to Katrina.

Yeah, I heard that too. I looked it up, and intellicast.com has it heading north and away from the gulf.

http://www.intellicast.com/WeatherImg/CustomGraphic/hurtrac.gif

[RedNFeisty]

I'm pissed that it seems as if people think this should be all cleand up and rebuilt in a matter of days or weeks. As Americans we all have problems of wanting something now, and for 99% of the time it works that way.

If you compare Katrina to Sept 11th, Katrina is a much bigger problem when you are dealing with Logistics. We have Hundreds of Square miles to cover with this storm.

I think there are things that should have been done faster, for me, getting the Navy to start steaming towards the Gulf on Monday would have been smart, but who knows.

I think our main focus need to be on the future of the area. Most of the people syuck in NO are the poor and homeless, I think NO has a poverty rate of 30%. What we need to do is get these people to shelters, cleaned up, fed, and then the Government needs to hire them at 20 bucks an hour to assist in the clean up/reconstruction of the area. This will take time, but I think this is the best way to deal with it.

This is a natural disaster, the gov't should have been more prepared with the leevies breaking, they knew in 69 that the leeves would not hold in such a disaster. Just because news crews can get down on Bourbon Street doesn't mean that a bus or tank can do that same. IMO, this is not something that you can blame the gov't for as a whole.

As said before, NO and most of MS are proverty sticken areas, we can not blame the people for not leaving when they had no means to leave. I think Hoover has the best idea I have seen. Clean up, feed and rest the people there and then give them the option of helping their area and getting paid at the same time to do it. It may also help some mentally at this time to get their minds off of what they have lost and hopefully make the future look a little brighter.

There is to much devistation to point fingers and blame others when they are there and they are trying to help.

[KC Kings]

I feel that same way but the truth is most of those people are poor and black so that puts them very low on our governments list of priorities. Just being black puts them low on the priority list.

Just because it has the name Army in it, doesn't mean the Salvation Army is a group of trained soldiers prepared to be shot at.

Planes are being shot at. Life Flight helicopters are being shot at. The fricking police can't go around helping people because they have to stay at the station to protect it from the population.
The only thing the government did wrong was to assume that a bunch of poor assed welfare recipients that couldn't leave town because they were out of money at the end of the month were going to behave like a civilized Americans. If this situation involved a bunch of poor whites acting the same way, they would be treated exactly the same.

I know you can't blame everybody when a majority of the people have done nothing wrong, but 5 days of destruction, homelessness and dehydration has been outdone by Americans raping young girls, robbing and killing each other, and shooting at those who are on their way to help.

How much money would you have given to the tsunami victims if you saw them acting the same way our fellow Americans are acting? Maybe you would have given the same, but I don't think I would have.

[buddha]

How long does it take the national guard to respond?

Our government response to this has been incredibly weak.

TJ, I agree with your post, but let's not forget how much of a drain on our federal resources the Iraqi conflict has been, and continues to be. How many national guardsmen are on their third or fourth tour in Iraq now? How many troop carrier, helicopters, ships, etc., that we could normally devote to a rescue mission here in America are currently on the other side of the world?

Not only did the Bush Administration take away over $30 million from the New Orleans levee project to devote the Iraqi war, but this continued conflict is having secondary effects as well.

FEMA is a joke. They aren't set up to deal with a disaster of this magnitude...not by a long shot. We don't have a federal or state agency that is, to be brutally honest. In the past, we have cobbled together our responses based on efforts from the military, local emergency response agencies, and the Red Cross. That's about it.

Having Bush in New Orleans is a nice gesture on his part, but it's counterproductive. He will actually suck personnel away from more pressing tasks to provide him with protection and an entourage.

[Rain Man]

I might be the least informed person on the whole board wrt this event because I don't get 24-hour cable news in my home so take this with a grain of salt, but I vaguely recall hearing that people were not being allowed to leave the SuperDome once they entered. I don't know if this was just a temporary situation or whether it continues through today, but if this is true it would explain why more people aren't just starting to walk.

That's a good point (not about you being the least informed person on the board, but rather about being allowed to leave). At the same time, it doesn't sound like there are a lot of soldiers and police patrolling for escapees at the moment.

[buddha]

I suppose that's a bad thing? :rolleyes:

I guess you would prefer that they try to do charity work and go out of business in the process?

Yes, that's a bad thing. Along with having no cable in your house, do you not have a car? Do you enjoy paying $2.85 to $3 per gallon? There's no trickle down here, my friend. This all goes into the corporate piggie bank. Your comment about Exxon going out of business as an alternative to price gouging at the pump is laughably pathetic.

[patteeu]

TJ, I agree with your post, but let's not forget how much of a drain on our federal resources the Iraqi conflict has been, and continues to be. How many national guardsmen are on their third or fourth tour in Iraq now? How many troop carrier, helicopters, ships, etc., that we could normally devote to a rescue mission here in America are currently on the other side of the world?

Not only did the Bush Administration take away over $30 million from the New Orleans levee project to devote the Iraqi war, but this continued conflict is having secondary effects as well.

FEMA is a joke. They aren't set up to deal with a disaster of this magnitude...not by a long shot. We don't have a federal or state agency that is, to be brutally honest. In the past, we have cobbled together our responses based on efforts from the military, local emergency response agencies, and the Red Cross. That's about it.

Having Bush in New Orleans is a nice gesture on his part, but it's counterproductive. He will actually suck personnel away from more pressing tasks to provide him with protection and an entourage.

*trying to ignore the idiocy about resources being drained away by the war*

It's time for the government to make some lemonade out of these lemons. Army and Marine recruiters should head to the region to offer gainful employment to the young, able-bodied adults who have lost their jobs and their homes. It would be a great opportunity for a fresh start for a portion of the displaced population.

[patteeu]

Yes, that's a bad thing. Along with having no cable in your house, do you not have a car? Do you enjoy paying $2.85 to $3 per gallon? There's no trickle down here, my friend. This all goes into the corporate piggie bank. Your comment about Exxon going out of business as an alternative to price gouging at the pump is laughably pathetic.

You apparently don't know what the term "price gouging" means, comrade.

[Lbedrock1]

I know its fun for you, being a martyr...but you're completely full of shit.



It'd be great if the people down there would stop raping kids in shelters, murdering, looting Big Screens, burning things and SHOOTING AT RELIEF WORKERS who are TRYING TO HELP THEM.

if anyone has a racial issue with this....it must be mother nature, for selecting that area......unless you believe "whitey" programmed that area to get hit with the worst natural disaster in our history.
Your the man with all the answers an everything a black man says has to be BS. So tell us all with your infinite wisdom, why does it take so long to get troops there? The was not 911 where we didn't expect it. See it is probally set in your mind that they are nothing but a bunch of blacks doing what they always do rob, steal, kill, rape, do harm to those trying to help them. The news shows a black man with a bag wading in the water he was a man caught stealing food from the store. Later two whites were shown same situation they found food in the store so they can eat. Can you see what that does to the mind of people watching. the truth is those people didn't have food or water so they went to the sources that did and that happen to be the stores.

[Lbedrock1]

Coupled with the fact that some stayed for materialistic gain and criminal activity.
What evidence do you have of that. When the city is finally evacuated Im sure they will not be evacuating Big Screens so there staying I don't believe had anything to do with material gain. That accured after the hurricane passed and the authorities gave up on the situation. Cowardly Police turning in their badges.

[Lbedrock1]

The American priority list feel free to change the order.
White Male (rich)
White female (rich)
White male
white female
Legal Aliens (rich)
Legal Aliens
Illegal Aliens
Black Female (rich) Some exceptions are higher on list ie Oprah)
Black Male (rich) Still some exceptions place higher on the list
Poor whites
endangered animals
Poor blacks
Its sad but more money is spent on trying to save animals then trying to help get some americans out of poverty.

[Rain Man]

I dunno, lbedrock. I think all the rich people are at the top of the list, before anyone else.

I also think I can simplify the list a little bit, as follows:

1. People in power.
2. Cronies of people in power.
3. Everyone else with money.
4. Everyone else without money.

[KCTitus]

The American priority list feel free to change the order.
White Male (rich)
White female (rich)
White male
white female
Legal Aliens (rich)
Legal Aliens
Illegal Aliens
Black Female (rich) Some exceptions are higher on list ie Oprah)
Black Male (rich) Still some exceptions place higher on the list
Poor whites
endangered animals
Poor blacks
Its sad but more money is spent on trying to save animals then trying to help get some americans out of poverty.

That's not what I got on the last 'evil white guy' memo. I cant share the exact order because it's a secret.

[Rain Man]

I think endangered animals is way too low, too. If a spotted owl and I were both hanging from a cliff by a tree branch, I can't imagine anyone not saving the spotted owl first.*



* In this example, presume that it's a non-flying spotted owl, or otherwise the scenario completely falls apart.

[KCTitus]

I think endangered animals is way too low, too. If a spotted owl and I were both hanging from a cliff by a tree branch, I can't imagine anyone not saving the spotted owl first.*



* In this example, presume that it's a non-flying spotted owl, or otherwise the scenario completely falls apart.

Well, hold on...in this example, what is your net worth?

[Lzen]

Nolimitprick and Lbedrock1 must've forgotten to take their Prozac. Damn, people. Try to get a grip on reality.

[DanT]

Your the man with all the answers an everything a black man says has to be BS. So tell us all with your infinite wisdom, why does it take so long to get troops there? The was not 911 where we didn't expect it. See it is probally set in your mind that they are nothing but a bunch of blacks doing what they always do rob, steal, kill, rape, do harm to those trying to help them. The news shows a black man with a bag wading in the water he was a man caught stealing food from the store. Later two whites were shown same situation they found food in the store so they can eat. Can you see what that does to the mind of people watching. the truth is those people didn't have food or water so they went to the sources that did and that happen to be the stores.

I think I might know part of what you're talking about with the news. I was checking out the photos on yahoo.com earlier this week and saw that after a photos of blacks taking groceries had the word "looting" in its caption, the photo caption used "finding" to describe how the two light-skinned people got the groceries they were dragging through the flood. I noticed it right away. I looked closer at the photoes to try to decide if they both white people, but I couldn't really tell.

It's the kind of thing you probably couldn't help but notice if you grew up in a black neighborhood. I told jettio about it that night on the phone, but I haven't seen anybody else mention it until your post. So I just now looked it up on the Internet. Sure enough, it did get noticed by others, as well. Here's a link to a salon.com story about it, including the two photos that I saw:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index.html

[65 to Bust]

FWIW, Here's my list.

1. Money talks.
2. I can't hear you!

[patteeu]

I think I might know part of what you're talking about with the news. I was checking out the photos on yahoo.com earlier this week and saw that after a photos of blacks taking groceries had the word "looting" in its caption, the photo caption used "finding" to describe how the two light-skinned people got the groceries they were dragging through the flood. I noticed it right away. I looked closer at the photoes to try to decide if they both white people, but I couldn't really tell.

It's the kind of thing you probably couldn't help but notice if you grew up in a black neighborhood. I told jettio about it that night on the phone, but I haven't seen anybody else mention it until your post. So I just now looked it up on the Internet. Sure enough, it did get noticed by others, as well. Here's a link to a salon.com story about it, including the two photos that I saw:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index.html


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=122795&page=2

[DanT]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=122795&page=2

Thanks, patteeu. I hadn't seen that thread.

[chiefs4me]

Texas doesn't care what freaking color you are...we are taking them in as fast as we can...if you can't donate money, go and give some blood...it is in great demand right now, not only for NO but our boys and gals overseas. You are probably thinking that the one dollar you can give is nothing...but that's not true, every penny helps....I am sick over this ordeal....the richest country in the world, but the stories and pictures make you think it is a 3rd world country...if we can't help one freaking state...then what happens when something takes out 4 states or more....jmo

[4th and Long]

Texas doesn't care what freaking color you are..
I can vouch for that. Between no one speaking English, store fronts in Houston written in Vietnamese so you can't read them and street signs in downtown Houston written in in Chinese, you BET Texas will take anyone!

[Skip Towne]

Texas doesn't care what freaking color you are...we are taking them in as fast as we can...if you can't donate money, go and give some blood...it is in great demand right now, not only for NO but our boys and gals overseas. You are probably thinking that the one dollar you can give is nothing...but that's not true, every penny helps....I am sick over this ordeal....the richest country in the world, but the stories and pictures make you think it is a 3rd world country...if we can't help one freaking state...then what happens when something takes out 4 states or more....jmo
Why are you making sense all of a sudden? Are you doing drugs?

[chiefs4me]

I can vouch for that. Between no one speaking English, store fronts in Houston written in Vietnamese so you can't read them and street signs in downtown Houston written in in Chinese, you BET Texas will take anyone!



I have been in Texas for 11 years and only speak english and have NEVER had a problem.....as far as Houston goes, well you were not supposed to be in that part of the city..:rolleyes: And thank God texas is opening up its doors to fellow americans....:harumph:

[chiefs4me]

Why are you making sense all of a sudden? Are you doing drugs?




I am always doing some kind of drug.....:p and as far as the making sense.....I don't always care to share it with the board...ROFL

[patteeu]

Thanks, patteeu. I hadn't seen that thread.

No problem. I wouldn't have even linked it if it didn't have the pictures and captions that showed exactly what you were saying.

[bringbackmarty]

How do you fix a problem when the 'help' is being shot at...that's the thing I dont get.
we seem to have no problem doing that in iraq. They knew it would turn out this way if it happened, you cannot convince me otherwise. Anyone who has spent any time in the city of New Orleans understands that it is truly third world in a lot of ways. They did studies about it, simulations, computer models and drills. we have been spending all of our resources "defending the homeland" against those who would try and harm the american people. They knew this was coming, but because who it was going to affect (poor black people, by and large.) they didn't feel all that threatened or concerned by it. The government\president of this country is a disgrace.

[bringbackmarty]

I lived there for the past three years, I evacuated for Ivan, Made it through isadore and lily. The year before that, I went through hugo.
It's all in the intensity and where it hits.

[stumppy]

we seem to have no problem doing that in iraq. They knew it would turn out this way if it happened, you cannot convince me otherwise. Anyone who has spent any time in the city of New Orleans understands that it is truly third world in a lot of ways. They did studies about it, simulations, computer models and drills. we have been spending all of our resources "defending the homeland" against those who would try and harm the american people. They knew this was coming, but because who it was going to affect (poor black people, by and large.) they didn't feel all that threatened or concerned by it. The government\president of this country is a disgrace.

You, sir, are a fuggin idiot.

[chiefs4me]

we seem to have no problem doing that in iraq. They knew it would turn out this way if it happened, you cannot convince me otherwise. Anyone who has spent any time in the city of New Orleans understands that it is truly third world in a lot of ways. They did studies about it, simulations, computer models and drills. we have been spending all of our resources "defending the homeland" against those who would try and harm the american people. They knew this was coming, but because who it was going to affect (poor black people, by and large.) they didn't feel all that threatened or concerned by it. The government\president of this country is a disgrace.




:shake:....what an idiot.

[memyselfI]

Thanks, patteeu. I hadn't seen that thread.


Update: something mysterious happened to that photo. :hmmm:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1

[Valiant]

I think the difference is.....when I saw a hurricane coming, and the govt said "hey everyone...a big, bad mofo of a hurricane is coming and you could be in deep shit...get out"..............I'd have put my family on my back and carried them out if I had to.

If I'd have stayed like an idiot.......I'd sure think I'd be trying to DO something to get them out, if it meant walking instead of sitting around bitching.

I know some people just don't have the means, physically, mentally and whatnot.....and I feel badly for them. Hopefully, my contributions will help them.

Sometimes, you have to "get Busy Living...or get busy dieing".


Thank you...

I'm sorry for what they are going thru right now, but the stupid ****ers brought it on themselves.. They were told a week, a whole ****ing week to get out... The majority of the people there now were not all homeless or without transportation they were ****ing stubborn... Hell almost all of them in interviews said, "Yeah we were told to leave, but we didn't want too, we have been thru this before...." My ass, this was suppose to be the biggest hurricane ever to hit the coast and they thought they could ride it out...

That is why I do not feel sympathy for the majority of them... If the ones that could have left, did, we wouldn't be in the same gigantic mess that we are in now...

[Valiant]

how do you out walk a hurricane


About a week in advance...

[Valiant]

This is a natural disaster, the gov't should have been more prepared with the leevies breaking, they knew in 69 that the leeves would not hold in such a disaster. Just because news crews can get down on Bourbon Street doesn't mean that a bus or tank can do that same. IMO, this is not something that you can blame the gov't for as a whole.

As said before, NO and most of MS are proverty sticken areas, we can not blame the people for not leaving when they had no means to leave. I think Hoover has the best idea I have seen. Clean up, feed and rest the people there and then give them the option of helping their area and getting paid at the same time to do it. It may also help some mentally at this time to get their minds off of what they have lost and hopefully make the future look a little brighter.

There is to much devistation to point fingers and blame others when they are there and they are trying to help.



Yeah because those 1000 upon 1000's of cars washed up and all around the area could not be driven before... Quit believing all the talk about the majority of them could not leave... The majority of them WOULD not leave...

[J Diddy]

Thank you...

I'm sorry for what they are going thru right now, but the stupid ****ers brought it on themselves.. They were told a week, a whole ****ing week to get out... The majority of the people there now were not all homeless or without transportation they were ****ing stubborn... Hell almost all of them in interviews said, "Yeah we were told to leave, but we didn't want too, we have been thru this before...." My ass, this was suppose to be the biggest hurricane ever to hit the coast and they thought they could ride it out...

That is why I do not feel sympathy for the majority of them... If the ones that could have left, did, we wouldn't be in the same gigantic mess that we are in now...

That is a harsh interpretation of events don't you think? Regardless of people leaving or staying people lost everything.

[Chiefnj]

Yeah because those 1000 upon 1000's of cars washed up and all around the area could not be driven before... Quit believing all the talk about the majority of them could not leave... The majority of them WOULD not leave...


Does your head hurt from being so stupid and insensitive?

[jspchief]

Yeah because those 1000 upon 1000's of cars washed up and all around the area could not be driven before... Quit believing all the talk about the majority of them could not leave... The majority of them WOULD not leave...Yea. They should just let all those children and babies die. Serves 'em right.

[Valiant]

That is a harsh interpretation of events don't you think? Regardless of people leaving or staying people lost everything.


Harsh yes, but they could have saved their lives and familys... Which is more important your family or your possessions...

[Valiant]

Does your head hurt from being so stupid and insensitive?


Does common sense elude you...

[wutamess]

I don't comprehend how the GOVT can be catching so much heat for a Natural Disaster.

They warned people and declared emergency PRIOR to the hurricane hitting. They placed some supplies, and probably would have been prepared for the storm damage alone.........

We're talking a million+ displaced people, over a 90,000 square mile area. They're deploying Troops to FIGHT rioting, looting, thieving Raping Thugs, so they can fuggin rescue people. They're dropping supplies by the ton, they're evacuating people.

The logistics to make ANY of that happen must be incredible. Its been what, 3 days? I don't see anyway, they could have just microwaved this like a bag of popcorn, like some of you expect.

Dude... are you freaking serious?
If this was Hollywood this would've been handled in a COMPLETELY different manner.

The supplies haven't gotten there in a timely fashion.

[Valiant]

Yea. They should just let all those children and babies die. Serves 'em right.


Way to pick and choose what you want to respond to...

Yes it sucks, but those people had a chance to leave.... Do I feel for them, yes I donated 100dollars...

But if you use common sense, you would have survived... These people had a week to leave, they wanted to stay because of stubburnous and the fact that they have made it threw smaller hurricanes before...

Argue this how???

Are there multiple 1000's of cars everywhere in ruins, why were they not used to get away in a week in advance??? These people CHOSE to stay...


How much have you all donated that are acting self-rightous???

[Valiant]

Dude... are you freaking serious?
If this was Hollywood this would've been handled in a COMPLETELY different manner.

The supplies haven't gotten there in a timely fashion.



I totally agree that supplies have not gotten there in a timely fashion, but if people would have left that could we would be dealing with 75% less people...

[TopJet2]

How the hell did this become about race? Fact is 68% of NO is black. You know what, I really dont give a dang. All I care about is the fact that so many people are treating each other like shite. This is a disease that has spread across the country and we are seeing it fester in NO right now.


I think that comments like those of lbed are what leads many people to be racist.

[wutamess]

Thank you...

I'm sorry for what they are going thru right now, but the stupid ****ers brought it on themselves.. They were told a week, a whole ****ing week to get out... The majority of the people there now were not all homeless or without transportation they were ****ing stubborn... Hell almost all of them in interviews said, "Yeah we were told to leave, but we didn't want too, we have been thru this before...." My ass, this was suppose to be the biggest hurricane ever to hit the coast and they thought they could ride it out...

That is why I do not feel sympathy for the majority of them... If the ones that could have left, did, we wouldn't be in the same gigantic mess that we are in now...

Seems like you and Iowanian are missing the point.

Yeah... lots stayed and some of them were stupid. But if you had no means of transportation YOU probably could've walked and "carried your kids on your back" because you're big and strong like that. But (I gave the scenario to someone else earlier today) what if your mother and father were ill and couldn't go with you? Would you just up and leave them or try and stick it out as best as you could?

I don't know about you but I wouldn't be leaving my loved ones like that. So please consider all sides of the story before you immediately lable a lot of them idiots.

Besides, even if you do evacuate, you're poor... where in the hell are you going to go? You'd probably be stupid enough to tough it out anyways also. You'd probably figure, we've been hit before and we've made out ok... We can survive this again.

[wutamess]

Are there multiple 1000's of cars everywhere in ruins, why were they not used to get away in a week in advance??? These people CHOSE to stay...


How much have you all donated that are acting self-rightous???

The 1000's of cars... probably belong to someone else. :rolleyes:

They chose to stay because they were promised they'd be ok at a certain place. Can't blame them for that. Others chose to stay out of stubbornous and others chose to stay because they were restricted and couldn't go anywhere.

How much someone else has donated is none of your business and that doesn't clasify you as the Messiah because you have.

[wutamess]

How the hell did this become about race? Fact is 68% of NO is black. You know what, I really dont give a dang. All I care about is the fact that so many people are treating each other like shite. This is a disease that has spread across the country and we are seeing it fester in NO right now.


I think that comments like those of lbed are what leads many people to be racist.

It's not racist... It's the damn truth.
Stop being so closed minded and think that there aren't race issues in the U.S.

It's funny I bring it up to a couple of my white friends at work and they really have no freaking clue of what I'm talking about because they haven't gone through being a minority in the U.S. so they don't see some of the injustices in the USA.

Again... ask yourself... if this was Hollywood and thee L.A. Colliseum was full to capacity... you better believe supplies would've been there in a timely fashion.

If you look at it... I guess it is a racial issue but that doesn't make him a racist or that he's making racist statements.

[Valiant]

Seems like you and Iowanian are missing the point.

Yeah... lots stayed and some of them were stupid. But if you had no means of transportation YOU probably could've walked and "carried your kids on your back" because you're big and strong like that. But (I gave the scenario to someone else earlier today) what if your mother and father were ill and couldn't go with you? Would you just up and leave them or try and stick it out as best as you could?

I don't know about you but I wouldn't be leaving my loved ones like that. So please consider all sides of the story before you immediately lable a lot of them idiots.

Besides, even if you do evacuate, you're poor... where in the hell are you going to go? You'd probably be stupid enough to tough it out anyways also. You'd probably figure, we've been hit before and we've made out ok... We can survive this again.


Actually no, you are bringing in fantasy like points...

The majority of the people interviewed on tv even said they chose to stay... 1,000's of these non-working cars could not take them away from the hurricane a week in advance... If those people left, there would be less people to take care of...

As for where are they going to go, families in cities all over the country are accepting people to stay with them... Hell we are taking in 100's at my Univ. You are assuming that the majority of these people could not make it out.... All facts prove the majority had plenty of time and resources to make it out... Agian is your families life worth more or your house and items...

Agian if the people that could have left would have, we would not be dealing with the severe conditions we are now...


Let me give you a scenario since you said you couldn't leave your loved ones... If your parents were inable to move from there, and a Cat. 5 hurricane was coming and they told to you to leave...Would you stay and die... Or take your family that could leave and go???

[Valiant]

The 1000's of cars... probably belong to someone else. :rolleyes:

They chose to stay because they were promised they'd be ok at a certain place. Can't blame them for that. Others chose to stay out of stubbornous and others chose to stay because they were restricted and couldn't go anywhere.

How much someone else has donated is none of your business and that doesn't clasify you as the Messiah because you have.


You all are the one saying that people did not have a way to get out... There are literally 1000's of cars everywhere that were not used to get away by the owners... Why???, they chose to stay....

Sad thing is you believe what you type... Yeah, a mandatory evacuation means they would be safe, that mandatory and all has a loose defintion... They were told to leave, they stayed...

As for the donation, that was because people were under the impression I do not care, I care for the ones that could not make it out... Just think the other 80% were ****ing ignorant and got what they deserved...

[the Talking Can]

Thank you...

I'm sorry for what they are going thru right now, but the stupid ****ers brought it on themselves..


i love it...people critcizing the incompetence of FEMA are "playing politics in a time of need"...but people like you spitting on the dead are slapped on the back for "telling it like it is"

i love how you can sit at your keyboard and explain to us how it is that the poor, elderly, and sick in New Orleans got what they had coming (and this sentiment is rampant on Chiefsplanet)...if only they'd flown to their summer homes in Switzerland....

sick ****ers

in a couple of years when these people whose lives are destroyed still have no jobs and hope, we'll have a whole new round of republicans blaming them for being lazy and stupid and saying they don't deserve help from the government....so sweet, conservative compassion...small government, remember? your problems aren't our problems, kee-mo-sabe, remember?

do we have a national healthcare system to help these people? no....that would be socialist

can they get more than 6 months to a year of welfare? no, that would be communist

can they get long term psychological help to deal with the trauma? no

can they hang out with lobbyists in the capitol? no

these people will be forgotten in a couple of years...and they'll be blamed for their misery just as Valiant is blaming them now for dying...

god bless this country...and every cruel bastard in it....

[wutamess]

Let me give you a scenario since you said you couldn't leave your loved ones... If your parents were inable to move from there, and a Cat. 5 hurricane was coming and they told to you to leave...Would you stay and die... Or take your family that could leave and go???

That's where we differ. I honestly don't think I'd leave my mother and or father... I'd probably send the healthy ones away but I just wouldn't leave my parents or a close loved one that wasn't terminally ill or has one foot in heaven and one foot on a banana peel.

As far as the 1000's of cars... SOME of the people could've used the cars to get out (they're the ones that stayed). But I'm sure you do realize that there are multiple car households meaning that maybe (just maybe) all of those cars weren't the vehicle of some of the stubborn ones.

Besides... so what they stayed... I can and somewhat can't blame some of them. For instance... the ice storm of 2001 Almost the entire city of K.C. was without power... we had to basically drag my stubborn grandfather out of his home to my mother house (where she had power).

So what they stayed behind. You'd get that in a natural disaster. If it wasn't an earthquake it could be something else. Fact is... supplies were still late and I'm having a hard time believeing that if this was Hollywood that the situation would be duplicated.

[DanT]

Here are the Predictions and Evacuations subsections from the current Wikipedia.org entry on Katrina.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

Preparations and expectations before landfall

Predictions


Florida had little advance warning when Katrina strengthened from a tropical storm to a hurricane in one day, and struck southern Florida later that same day, on August 25.


On August 27, after Katrina crossed southern Florida and strengthened to Category 3, the President declared a state of emergency in Louisiana, two days before the hurricane made landfall [11]. This declaration activated efforts by Federal Emergency Management Agency to position stockpiles of food, water and medical supplies throughout Louisiana and Mississippi more than a day before Katrina made landfall. On August 28 the National Weather Service issued a bulletin predicting "devastating" damage rivaling the intensity of Hurricane Camille.


The city of New Orleans was considered to be particularly at risk since most of it is below sea level and it was likely that the expected storm surge would flood the city after topping the surrounding levees. (see Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans (Predictions section) and Predictions of hurricane risk for New Orleans).

I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did appreciate a serious storm but these levees got breached and as a result much of New Orleans is flooded and now we're having to deal with it and will. — President George W. Bush ([12]).


Evacuations


At a news conference 10 a.m. on August 28, shortly after Katrina was upgraded to a Category 5 storm, New Orleans mayor C. Ray Nagin, calling Katrina "a storm that most of us have long feared", ordered the first ever mandatory evacuation of the city. Thousands of poor city residents were unable to leave the city because they did not have money to buy gas. Nagin established several "refuges of last resort" for citizens who could not leave the city, including the massive Louisiana Superdome, which housed over 9,000 people along with 550 National Guard troops when Katrina came ashore [13]. A National Guard official said on Thursday, September 1 that as many as 60,000 people had gathered at the Superdome for evacuation, having remained there in increasingly difficult circumstances [14], [15], [16].


Mandatory evacuations were also ordered for Assumption, Jefferson (Grand Isle and other low lying areas), Lafourche (outside the floodgates), Plaquemines, St. Charles and St. James parishes and parts of Tangipahoa and Terrebonne parishes in Louisiana.


In Alabama, evacuations were ordered for parts of Mobile and Baldwin counties (including Gulf Shores). In Mississippi, evacuations were ordered for parts of Hancock, Harrison and Jackson counties.

[Valiant]

i love it...people critcizing the incompetence of FEMA are "playing politics in a time of need"...but people like you spitting on the dead are slapped on the back for "telling it like it is"

i love how you can sit at your keyboard and explain to us how it is that the poor, elderly, and sick in New Orleans got what they had coming (and this sentiment is rampant on Chiefsplanet)...if only they'd flown to their summer homes in Switzerland....

sick ****ers

in a couple of years when these people whose lives are destroyed still have no jobs and hope, we'll have a whole new round of republicans blaming them for being lazy and stupid and saying they don't deserve help from the government....so sweet, conservative compassion...small government, remember? your problems aren't our problems, kee-mo-sabe, remember?

do we have a national healthcare system to help these people? no....that would be socialist

can they get more than 6 months to a year of welfare? no, that would be communist

can they get long term psychological help to deal with the trauma? no

can they hang out with lobbyists in the capitol? no

these people will be forgotten in a couple of years...and they'll be blamed for their misery just as Valiant is blaming them now for dying...

god bless this country...and every cruel bastard in it....


How about you not cut out the rest of my quotes when trying to quote me... Kind of alters my whole post... The majority of this could have been avoided, you and others like you have a failure to understand that... But go ahead and scream out loud if it makes you feel better and blame one political party or the other...


The whole thing could have been better if people listened... But you obvisouly have difficulty with that...

[Lbedrock1]

LBedrock has obviously failed to take into account Dubya's crippling incompetence. The fact that any effort is being made to help these people at all is evidence that he was unaware they were nothing but poor blacks. Heckfire, if'n he'd known that he would've given the go ahead long ago to blow the rest of the levies and drown 'em like rats. Duh.
That is sad becuase we should be better than this as a nation. We need to start caring more for one another.

[T-post Tom]

How do you fix a problem when the 'help' is being shot at...that's the thing I dont get.

That's one incident & no excuse. Proper placement of security personnel would have squashed that immediately.

This whole situation is the direct result of poor planning and poor leadership. Jobs should be lost and political heads should roll once the crisis becomes more stable. Regardless of political affiliation, those that failed so greatly should be held accountable.

[redsurfer11]

I can't blame the US Government for the mess in New Orleans. I Blame the State of Louisiana and the People in power in the city of New Orleans. A CAT 3 storm or higher was long ago predicted to do the damage that was done. The people in charge of the state and city knew this. They're response was to tell everyone to get out. That wasn't good enough. There should have been plans in place for bussing people out to pre-determined destinations and medical facilities. How many thousands of school busses were left to rot in New Orleans when the storm passed over them. I saw tonight on FOX news that a young man named Jabbar,broke into a school,found keys for a bus ,started it up and drove about eighty people to the Astrodome in Houston. The people on the bus pooled their money for 3 gasoline stops along the way. Why couldn't the city of New Orleans have had a plan for every school bus in the city to make rounds before the storm. The city also should have made rounds with busses and ambulances to all the Hospitals and nursing homes to evacuate the injured,ill and elderly. This was not the responsibility of the US Government, this was the responsibility of the Mayor and the city government to have this plan in action. They failed misserably and now blame the Government for their failed actions.

[stumppy]

LBedrock has obviously failed to take into account Dubya's crippling incompetence. The fact that any effort is being made to help these people at all is evidence that he was unaware they were nothing but poor blacks. Heckfire, if'n he'd known that he would've given the go ahead long ago to blow the rest of the levies and drown 'em like rats. Duh.

Get real man!!
You know damn good and well he wouldn't have done anything like that. Whitey is too smart to ruin all that prime real estate. He probably would have used all the dead bodies as sand bags to plug the levies. Then after the rest of the blacks were shipped to areas of the country more appropriate for ...well.....for...people of there standing in society he would have turned N.O. into the biggest good ole boys club (whites only) in the world.

[penchief]

Is that why I see all those relief trucks and buses headed into poor white country of Mississippi right now?

Mississippi's victims aren't boasting about the federal response either. A lot of what I've seen from the victims includes a lot of, "WTF, where's the federal government?"

Just because Bush and Haley Barbour have been polishing each others badges for their own political benefit doesn't necessarily mean that they've done any better in Mississippi.

All I've been hearing is that church groups and private charities have been the only ones that have helped up until now. Heck, even Joe Scarborough has been bashing the federal response in Mississippi. He's been reporting from Miss. all week and all he's been reporting is that there has been no federal response.

Politicians praising each other for public consumption? That never happens. Politicians claiming the exact opposite of what the reality is? That never happens, either. Politicians covering their assess? Naw.

I would never expect that from the Bush White House. He's the "uniter, not a divider," the "compassionate conservative," who's great list of good deeds include the "Clear Skies" initiative, the "Healthy Forest" initiative, and searching for Bin Laden in Iraq.

[chiefs4me]

You all are the one saying that people did not have a way to get out... There are literally 1000's of cars everywhere that were not used to get away by the owners... Why???, they chose to stay....

Sad thing is you believe what you type... Yeah, a mandatory evacuation means they would be safe, that mandatory and all has a loose defintion... They were told to leave, they stayed...

As for the donation, that was because people were under the impression I do not care, I care for the ones that could not make it out... Just think the other 80% were ****ing ignorant and got what they deserved...





Got what they deserved....I really can't believe you said this...


So if the hurricane was coming your way...and your mom and dad couldn't leave...you would just leave them?

I feel sorry for anyone that knows you....I can't even reply to the rest of your comments...reading your stupid comments make me sick...

Got what they deserved...:shake: I will pray nightly that you get what you deserve....

[Wilson]

How about you not cut out the rest of my quotes when trying to quote me... Kind of alters my whole post... The majority of this could have been avoided, you and others like you have a failure to understand that... But go ahead and scream out loud if it makes you feel better and blame one political party or the other...


The whole thing could have been better if people listened... But you obvisouly have difficulty with that...

So the guys that sent their family north and stayed behind to try and maybe save the house that they woke up at 5am for the last 30 years for to pay the mortgage are ignorant assholes that deserve what they got?

Simply unreal.

[Wilson]

ROFL If a hurricane's gonna take your house, you ain't stoppin it.

Agreed. But the storm did turn east hours before it ever hit land and the reports were "not as bad as projected" so maybe sandbag the place, move important stuff to the 2nd floor, work with neighbors to protect the neighborhood after the storm passes so your town doesn't get ransacked by looters.

There's millions of reasons why residents wouldn't want to leave everything they own and probably spent a life time bulding to the mercy of a storm and it's aftermath.

What about the hospital patients that couldn't be moved and the doctors and nurses that stayed behind to take care of them? What about the family of those patients?

Did they get what they deserved?

I just find it amazing that peoplel who were asked to leave their lives behind to go live in a tent but decided maybe they could do somthing about the situation by riding the storm out are being judged by a bunch of people who have no idea what that's like.

Just amazed with the cut and dry wisdom of people 3000 miles away.

[Iowanian]

Dude... are you freaking serious?
If this was Hollywood this would've been handled in a COMPLETELY different manner.

The supplies haven't gotten there in a timely fashion.

Please Explain How this would have been handled differently if it were Hollywood? What would be done differently BY THE GOVT AND FEMA if it were a "white region"?

No One "deserved" the hurricane.....Mother Nature chose its location, not The Govt conspiracy....the French chose the location of the city.

There are white folks in LA and Miss who are dirt poor too. Race doesn't have Jack shit to do with the relief effort.



As for the question of "what I'd do if my elderly mother....."....Truth is, I can't answer that because I'm NOT in that situation, but no, I'd NOT leave my elderly or young relatives there...............I'd like to think I'd push them out in a fuggin shopping cart if I didn't have any other means............and a 4 day head start.

[wutamess]

There are white folks in LA and Miss who are dirt poor too. Race doesn't have Jack shit to do with the relief effort.

Considering I had this same exact debate with another white friend of mine and collectively through 5 days of T.V. coverage we saw 2 white people native to that area on the T.V.

Having said that... I can't give you the exact way it would've been handled in Hollywood or some other predominately white area but I do know that it would've been handled in a more efficient manner.

For instance... Bush (even though I don't want to turn this into a Bush bash) and the nation had prior knowledge of what was expected once Katrina hit. Keep in mind they had days to prepare.

Now when the Rodney King riots broke out in L.A. Hollywood was mysteriously spared and those riots happened with VERY SHORT NOTICE.

Point being... most (if not all) of who you've seen on T.V. the last couple of days have been stranded black people. So don't tell me that it has nothing to do with race when if all you seen was stranded whites the outcome would've been totally different.

FWIW: I do not place all of the blame on the Government. Part of Louisiana and Missisippi have to shoulder the blame also. There should have been a mass transportation sstem in place to evacuate as many as they could instea of having the masses fend for themselves.

Another point my grandfather brought to my attention... This is for the Valiant one. Let's say that some of those (chose to stay) stubborn ones were poverty stricken and on wellfare. Wellfare (I think) comes on the 1st of the month (and on the 15th I think). I don't know about you but I don't know many poverty stricken people that do not live check to check. How in the hell else were they to evacuate instead of ride this thing out if they didn't have any $? Just something else to Ponder, Johnny Bravo.

[stumppy]

"Considering I had this same exact debate with another white friend of mine and collectively through 5 days of T.V. coverage we saw 2 white people native to that area on the T.V."

Heads are gonna role over that screw up. Everyone got their "whites only" memo about evacuating. I feel sorry for those two that stayed behind.

____________________________________________________________
"Having said that... I can't give you the exact way it would've been handled in Hollywood or some other predominately white area but I do know that it would've been handled in a more efficient manner."

Nah, this one is just too easy.

____________________________________________________________
"For instance... Bush (even though I don't want to turn this into a Bush bash) and the nation had prior knowledge of what was expected once Katrina hit. Keep in mind they had days to prepare."

Did any of you actually have your TV's on during the 5 days ? Did any of you listen to the noise coming out of your TV's ?
____________________________________________________________

"Now when the Rodney King riots broke out in L.A. Hollywood was mysteriously spared and those riots happened with VERY SHORT NOTICE."

Back to the "whites only" memos distributed by the government. Unfortunately Reginald Denney did not recieve his.
:rolleyes:
____________________________________________________________
"Point being... most (if not all) of who you've seen on T.V. the last couple of days have been stranded black people. So don't tell me that it has nothing to do with race when if all you seen was stranded whites the outcome would've been totally different."

Ya think maybe the reason so many blacks are there is because the population is made up of mostly black people ?:eek:
____________________________________________________________
"FWIW: I do not place all of the blame on the Government. Part of Louisiana and Missisippi have to shoulder the blame also. There should have been a mass transportation sstem in place to evacuate as many as they could instea of having the masses fend for themselves."


Well, thats mighty whi.....uh.... generous of you. I'm still trying to figure out why the people of La. and Ms. along with the Corp of Engineers have known for 80 years that the levee system was inadequate yet failed to correct the problem.
____________________________________________________________