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DeepSouth
09-09-2005, 05:58 AM
The charts didn't come across. You'll have to go to the link to see those.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/09/09/gretz_its_the_linebackers/

GRETZ: It's the Linebackers
Sep 09, 2005, 6:28:13 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ



From the moment he returned to Kansas City in January of 2004, it was one word that stuck in Gunther Cunningham’s mind: linebackers.



Watching from afar, he knew the Chiefs’ cupboard was bare at linebacker. His friend Derrick Thomas had passed. Donnie Edwards had been allowed to leave in free agency in what ranks among the biggest personnel misjudgments by the Chiefs in the last decade.

Once Cunningham got back into Arrowhead, he realized those linebackers on the roster did not fit his style of defense. Few had the combination of explosion and power that he wanted from his linebackers. He wanted guys that pushed across the line of scrimmage, not ones that flowed along the line, which was the type that former coordinator Greg Robinson favored.

Now, 20 months later, linebackers are on still on Cunningham’s mind as the Chiefs prepare to open the regular season against the New York Jets on Sunday.

In the first steps of rebuilding the Chiefs defense, the linebacker position has been stabilized. They’ll get their first major test this Sunday against Curtis Martin and the Jets offense.

“I think more people around here understand what I was talking about now when it comes to the linebacker position,” Cunningham said. “We’ve got some players there that can make an impact, they can change the flow of the game, and they can even change the scoreboard.”

In the span of one year, the linebacker position went from one of the weaknesses on the Chiefs defense, to what must now be considered a strength. So much so that the Chiefs kept one more LB than normal, as eight made the final roster. Now, one of those is Gary Stills, whose spot has more to do with special teams than it does playing linebacker.

Of those eight linebackers, Stills was a defensive end last year, Rich Scanlon did not play a down of defense, Keyaron Fox played one game in the defense and did not make a tackle and Kawika Mitchell had disappointed everyone, including himself, with his 2004 performance. Playing in 15 games, with 12 starts, Mitchell had just 85 tackles and a couple dozen missed tackles.

Gone from last year are Monty Beisel (allowed to leave in free agency), Quinton Caver (released), Fred Jones (not re-signed), Scott Fujita (traded) and Shawn Barber (PUP.) Mike Maslowski, who missed the entire 2004 season, was also released.

Kendrell Bell was added through free agency, Derrick Johnson and Boomer Grigsby came through the draft and Kris Griffin was a gem found among the college players who were not drafted by the league’s 32 teams.

More importantly, Mitchell and Fox became two of the most improved players on the team in 2005, and Scanlon went to NFL Europe and was the defensive player of the year.

“It’s not hard to see; you would have to be a blind man not to notice the changes” said Cunningham. “Now, this is what I’m used to. If Kendrell Bell can play the whole season, he can be one of the really big-time defensive players in the league. D.J. can run like crazy. But what makes me feel good are Kawika Mitchell, Keyaron Fox, some of the young guys that made the roster. You see those guys now, and it’s like a whole different group.”

Against the Jets, the Chiefs will start a 1st-round draft pick and a pair of 2nd-round choices. Johnson, Mitchell and Bell were all drafted among the top 47 players in the draft. They are the first starting linebackers of that caliber for the Chiefs since D.T.’s last season of 1999 (he was the fourth player selected in the 1989 Draft.)



In the 80 games played in the last five seasons there have been a total of 232 starting spots at linebacker (the Chiefs started several games in nickel and dime defenses, with linebackers removed from the lineup.)

Of those 232 starts, none were by 1st-round draft picks. Only 20 were by players drafted in the second round (16 by Mitchell and four by Quinton Caver.) There were no starts by linebackers taken in the third round.

That’s 20 of the 232 starts by first-day draft choices, or less than nine percent.

Translation: the Chiefs have had a dearth of talent at linebacker for some time. Being a draft choice, let alone a first-day pick, does not guarantee accomplishment in the NFL. But let’s be honest: the best talents and athletes are taken early in the draft. Football teams win when they get the most talented players on the field. The odds of pulling that off are far greater with those early picks.

The Chiefs problem at linebacker, and thus their problem on defense, has been a lack of talent. At linebacker, that appears to have been rectified so they can compete with the better defenses in the league. Here’s how the Chiefs first four opponents lineup at linebacker as a comparison (three of these four teams made the playoffs last year:)



It’s easy to see why the Raiders have defensive problems, given the pedigree of their linebacker talent. It’s also obvious why the Jets and Broncos were among the league’s top defenses last year. The Eagles had problems last year stopping the run, and maybe part of the reason is their linebacker talent.

There is still much for the Chiefs defense to prove and plenty that the linebackers must still get done. The pre-season showed the potential.

Now, it’s time for production.

the Talking Can
09-09-2005, 06:04 AM
"If Kendrell Bell can play the whole season..."


lol..he didn't get the Chief's talking points memo that CP sent out...

Mecca
09-09-2005, 06:12 AM
The Eagles defensive philosophy is completely diferent from Guns. They save money at the LB position, if any good LB's on that team come up for contract they are let go and replaced by cheaper players. They basically think any bum can play LB on their team.

I'm really happy to see us have some good linebackers for a change it's been to long. Hell, I was still in high school last time I thought we had good LB's.

2bikemike
09-09-2005, 06:59 AM
The Eagles defensive philosophy is completely diferent from Guns. They save money at the LB position, if any good LB's on that team come up for contract they are let go and replaced by cheaper players. They basically think any bum can play LB on their team.

I'm really happy to see us have some good linebackers for a change it's been to long. Hell, I was still in high school last time I thought we had good LB's.

That was DV's thinking as well thats why Edwards left.

Mecca
09-09-2005, 07:01 AM
Well the Eagles can get away with it because their Dline and Secondary are very good. Ours well wasn't so we can't get away with doing that.

2bikemike
09-09-2005, 07:03 AM
Well the Eagles can get away with it because their Dline and Secondary are very good. Ours well wasn't so we can't get away with doing that.

No argument from me on that point.

Gaz
09-09-2005, 07:03 AM
Yah, the LBs are no longer a primary concern.

That dubious distinction belongs to the DEs.

xoxo~
Gaz
Willing to take Good LB/Bad DE over Bad LB/Bad DE.

DeepSouth
09-09-2005, 07:50 AM
Yah, the LBs are no longer a primary concern.

That dubious distinction belongs to the DEs.

xoxo~
Gaz
Willing to take Good LB/Bad DE over Bad LB/Bad DE.


I wouldn't say BAD DE's, just average (unspectacular) DE's. And if Sims has improved as much as Vermiel keeps telling everyone, he might require some doubleteams which will improve Hick's play.

Brock
09-09-2005, 07:54 AM
The Eagles defensive philosophy is completely diferent from Guns. They save money at the LB position, if any good LB's on that team come up for contract they are let go and replaced by cheaper players. They basically think any bum can play LB on their team.

I'm really happy to see us have some good linebackers for a change it's been to long. Hell, I was still in high school last time I thought we had good LB's.

There was a time when the Chiefs used to be able to pick up guys off the street and make linebackers out of them.....That was a long time ago, though.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 07:58 AM
Guns no defensive master mind. Regulated to a position coach under jeff fisher,is all i have to hear.

Gaz
09-09-2005, 08:58 AM
DeepSouth-

You are kinder than I.

xoxo~
Gaz
Spectacularly unimpressed with the Chiefs’ DEs.

beer bacon
09-09-2005, 09:35 AM
Well the Eagles can get away with it because their Dline and Secondary are very good. Ours well wasn't so we can't get away with doing that.

They were getting gouged against the run until they bought Trotter back and then eventually made him the starter. He was one of the guys they let leave for greener pastures.

BigChiefFan
09-09-2005, 10:07 AM
I'm damn glad Gunther put a premium on the LBer position, because it should pay huge dividends. I'm also glad DJ starts from day one. Welcome to the NFL, rookie-give 'em Hell.

wolfpack0735
09-09-2005, 10:14 AM
i would say they are some of the fastest or even better LB`ers the chiefs have had in some time, at least on paper. i`d give them several games before a good judgement can be made.

Luzap
09-09-2005, 10:15 AM
Guns no defensive master mind. Regulated to a position coach under jeff fisher,is all i have to hear.

:rolleyes:

RedThat
09-09-2005, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't say BAD DE's, just average (unspectacular) DE's. And if Sims has improved as much as Vermiel keeps telling everyone, he might require some doubleteams which will improve Hick's play.

I don't think that'll make much of a difference. Hicks get his ass handed to him sometimes even when he is single blocked 1-on-1 with TE's.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 10:52 AM
:rolleyes:

one can only draw the conclusion that jeff fisher knows a talented defensice co. when he sees one. there are two excellent de-co that came from his system in the nfl now.
Buffalo&Washington.
if gun is so great why was he regulated to a position coach?????????

R&GHomer
09-09-2005, 10:58 AM
one can only draw the conclusion that jeff fisher knows a talented defensice co. when he sees one. there are two excellent de-co that came from his system in the nfl now.
Buffalo&Washington.
if gun is so great why was he regulated to a position coach?????????

Because they already had a DC under contract when Gun got canned :shrug: Wasn't it Fisher that said "Having Gun as a linbacker coach is like having Picasso paint his kitchen"?

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 11:01 AM
Because they already had a DC under contract when Gun got canned :shrug: Wasn't it Fisher that said "Having Gun as a linbacker coach is like having Picasso paint his kitchen"?

contracts mean zip in the nfl,coaches & players are hired fired demoted and promoted on skill and merit.If someone is better you get a pink slip.


And you make my point w/ the fisher quote.

R&GHomer
09-09-2005, 11:10 AM
contracts mean zip in the nfl,coaches & players are hired fired demoted and promoted on skill and merit.If someone is better you get a pink slip.


And you make my point w/ the fisher quote.

Not sure what you mean. I take that quote to mean that he felt Gun was grossly over qualified for the position.

As far as not promoting him to DC... Who knows. Maybe he had a different defensive philosophy or earmarked his own buddies "coach's" much the same way DV has. You can't deny that Gun has fielded some OUTSTANDING defenses here in KC.

RedThat
09-09-2005, 11:10 AM
Because they already had a DC under contract when Gun got canned :shrug: Wasn't it Fisher that said "Having Gun as a linbacker coach is like having Picasso paint his kitchen"?

Nope. It was Tennesee's defensive co-ordinator who mentioned that. Jim Schwartz.

Brock
09-09-2005, 11:12 AM
Nope. It was Tennesee's defensive co-ordinator who mentioned that. Jim Schwartz.

Actually, I think it was Bud Adams.

RedThat
09-09-2005, 11:15 AM
Actually, I think it was Bud Adams.

Nope. It was Jim Schwartz. I remember.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 11:16 AM
Not sure what you mean. I take that quote to mean that he felt Gun was grossly over qualified for the position.

As far as not promoting him to DC... Who knows. Maybe he had a different defensive philosophy or earmarked his own buddies "coach's" much the same way DV has. You can't deny that Gun has fielded some OUTSTANDING defenses here in KC.

When was the last time a outstanding De-co was demoted to a position coach for years and not even looked at by other NFL teams?

Hydrae
09-09-2005, 11:18 AM
When was the last time a outstanding De-co was demoted to a position coach for years and not even looked at by other NFL teams?

When he utterly bombed as a head coach and was thrashed mentally. Gun may have not even wanted to be a DC at first. It was probably hard enough for him to just coach the LBers. And you can not deny that he did some excellent things for the LBers in Tennessee.

RedThat
09-09-2005, 11:23 AM
When he utterly bombed as a head coach and was thrashed mentally. Gun may have not even wanted to be a DC at first. It was probably hard enough for him to just coach the LBers. And you can not deny that he did some excellent things for the LBers in Tennessee.

I agree with you. Gun made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t with those linebackers he had in Tennessee. Keith Bulluck flourished under Gunther. The other guys they have like Sirmon, Kassel, those guys are very underrated and solid linebackers.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 11:30 AM
When he utterly bombed as a head coach and was thrashed mentally. Gun may have not even wanted to be a DC at first. It was probably hard enough for him to just coach the LBers. And you can not deny that he did some excellent things for the LBers in Tennessee.

lots of COs get run through the ringer as head coaches. go back to the positions they held before as OC or DC and thrive.
AND are valued and picked up.
To say that he was 'thrashed mentaly'. hell all coaches are thrashed mentaly. Just shows he cant cut the mustard.

And as far as TN. he had better talent.
He did jack squat w/ the turds who played last year at LB.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 11:32 AM
I agree with you. Gun made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t with those linebackers he had in Tennessee. Keith Bulluck flourished under Gunther. The other guys they have like Sirmon, Kassel, those guys are very underrated and solid linebackers.

kieth bullock is better than any KC linebacker who played last year,not to mention at the time when gun was in TN he had a hell of a supporting cast on the field to back his LB up.

Dave Lane
09-09-2005, 11:47 AM
Guns no defensive master mind. Regulated to a position coach under jeff fisher,is all i have to hear.

Damn these r aider fans...

Dave

ISUJeff
09-09-2005, 11:57 AM
Al Saunders was a head coach for the Chargers, after that he was a position coach (WRs) for the Chiefs, then Rams. Since he dropped from being a head coach to a position coach, he obviously must not be capable of being an offensive coordinator.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 11:57 AM
Damn these r aider fans...

Dave


just tired of making excuses for the quality or lack of on the D side of the ball and the idiotic moves the KC front office makes.
why kid yourself year after year after year??????

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 12:01 PM
Al Saunders was a head coach for the Chargers, after that he was a position coach (WRs) for the Chiefs, then Rams. Since he dropped from being a head coach to a position coach, he obviously must not be capable of being an offensive coordinator.

means shit.
I dont remember al saunders being a mastermind before he came to kc.:hmmm:

ISUJeff
09-09-2005, 12:50 PM
means shit.
I dont remember al saunders being a mastermind before he came to kc.:hmmm:


Since Vermeil chose Saunders as the guy he wanted to be the OC, I'm assuming he had some input in the Rams offense, and since KC now has a better offense than St Louis, unless it was ALL Vermeil, I'd say that Saunders had a role in the Rams offense as well, and that Rams offense was kind of good.

So was he technically a mastermind before KC? I don't know, but I doubt he just walked into to Kansas City and suddenly knew how to run an offense.

MOhillbilly
09-09-2005, 12:52 PM
Since Vermeil chose Saunders as the guy he wanted to be the OC, I'm assuming he had some input in the Rams offense, and since KC now has a better offense than St Louis, unless it was ALL Vermeil, I'd say that Saunders had a role in the Rams offense as well, and that Rams offense was kind of good.

So was he technically a mastermind before KC? I don't know, but I doubt he just walked into to Kansas City and suddenly knew how to run an offense.

and this has to do with gunther???????????

ISUJeff
09-09-2005, 01:09 PM
and this has to do with gunther???????????


Geez, relax man.

I realize this thread is about the D, but in my comment I had a quote from you discussing Al Saunders.

And it does have to do with Gunther, in my previous post I was stating that an ex-head coach does not have to go directly back to being a coordinator to show that they are still capable of being a coordinator, using Al Saunders as an example.

chief99
09-09-2005, 01:19 PM
Great article ! I love the articles that just confirm long stated theory.