Priest is still my favorite player

[Red Dawg]

and that's the way it is. LJ is better than we all hoped but Holmes brought our running game out of the dark ages and he gets my respect. O.K. so respect does not win football games but it's not like he's finished. He's still quick as hell, can break tackles and change direction like lightening to get yards.

No LJ bashing here, he is definitely big, fast and explosive with power. Great to have them both.. We can run the ball 30 per game and never wear them out.

[Wallcrawler]

Damn right.

I like Johnson just as much as the next guy, but Im not quite ready to send Holmes to the sidelines quite yet.

This is the guy that put up 66 touchdowns in a 3 year span, as well as broke the NFL single season scoring record we are talking about here.

Johnson is good, and is a very promising young back, but there's no way you sit a healthy Priest Holmes.

[Tinlar]

The problem is LJ will be open for other teams to look at soon... and if he doesn't get to drive this team he'll go to a team that will let him.

[Rain Man]

This surreal bizarro world is really starting to disorient me.

Everyone, repeat after me: Priest Holmes is the top running back in the NFL. He holds the single-season touchdown record, and he's good for 2,000 combined yards over the course of a season.

[Deberg_1990]

The problem is LJ will be open for other teams to look at soon... and if he doesn't get to drive this team he'll go to a team that will let him.

LJ aint going anywhere. Thats (King Carl's) Boy. LJ is still the only "Superstar" Skill Position player on offense that he has ever drafted.

Well, besides TG I suppose....

[J Diddy]

The problem is LJ will be open for other teams to look at soon... and if he doesn't get to drive this team he'll go to a team that will let him.

I doubt that. He was drafted as the future, I think it will be stupid to let the future get away.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

The problem is LJ will be open for other teams to look at soon... and if he doesn't get to drive this team he'll go to a team that will let him.


He is signed up through 2010, he is not going anywhere.

[Saulbadguy]

He is signed up through 2010, he is not going anywhere.
Heh. You're dreaming if you think the Chiefs AND/OR Larry Johnson honor that original contract.

[HolmeZz]

Priest is still my favorite player too.

Patty Surtain's making his way up the charts though. :)

[alnorth]

I like Priest, but ultimately I cheer for the laundry, not the player wearing it. If I honestly believed Priest was done I'd be screaming for LJ too.

However, from the cold calculating statistical point of view, LJ has not taken Priest's job, so I support Priest as the starter for now, with LJ getting an increasing number of carries as we transition to him for the future. This offense is possibly the best in the NFL, yet again. We are not going to be much better than we are now (barring injury), no matter who starts. The only direction we have to go is down. LJ has about half a season's worth of carries. The man has not had enough experience to show that he is even better than average with a 90% degree of certainty. We already KNOW Priest is good. The possibility of a slight improvement this year is not worth the risk of a significant fall.

I deal with this issue occasionally at my job, when some of the other less mathematically-inclined departments freak out over last month's numbers, ignoring the years and years of experience before that.

[OldTownChief]

This surreal bizarro world is really starting to disorient me.




Everyone, repeat after me: Priest Holmes is the top running back in the NFL. He holds the single-season touchdown record, and he's good for 2,000 combined yards over the course of a season.

but, but, but, what about LJ?

[Skip Towne]

I like Priest, but ultimately I cheer for the laundry, not the player wearing it. If I honestly believed Priest was done I'd be screaming for LJ too.

However, from the cold calculating statistical point of view, LJ has not taken Priest's job, so I support Priest as the starter for now, with LJ getting an increasing number of carries as we transition to him for the future. This offense is possibly the best in the NFL, yet again. We are not going to be much better than we are now (barring injury), no matter who starts. The only direction we have to go is down. LJ has about half a season's worth of carries. The man has not had enough experience to show that he is even better than average with a 90% degree of certainty. We already KNOW Priest is good. The possibility of a slight improvement this year is not worth the risk of a significant fall.

I deal with this issue occasionally at my job, when some of the other less mathematically-inclined departments freak out over last month's numbers, ignoring the years and years of experience before that.
It is you that is trying to hang onto what was. I don't care what you do at your job, Priest is obviously (to most people) in his twilight years. What a pro athlete has done means absolutely nothing as opposed to other industries. It is what he can do today. LJ can do it much better than Priest as the numbers will show you if you take the time to look at them. Your years and years of experience don't apply to an aging running back. Take your mathematically inclined dumb ass back to Football 101. SF threw out Joe Montana before he completely shot craps (luckily for us). And gained a Hall of Famer in Steve Young. It happens all the time in sports. This isn't sales or whatever you do. If you value the "name on the back of the jersey" keep up your ignorant spiel. I want production and wins.

[Ultra Peanut]

I love having them both back there, getting theirs and running all over the other team. But if I had to pick one... well, it would have to be the younger, faster, stronger one.

As long as they keep playing well, though, there's plenty of room for both of them.

[Ultra Peanut]

And if the worst case happens with LJ (I don't believe it will), there's always the franchise tag.

[Skip Towne]

I love having them both back there, getting theirs and running all over the other team. But if I had to pick one... well, it would have to be the younger, faster, stronger one.

As long as they keep playing well, though, there's plenty of room for both of them.
Damn you're smart! You agree with me.

[Ultra Peanut]

Damn you're smart! You agree with me.ROFL

[Halfcan]

Why should we have to pick, I think they form a perfect one-two punch. Priest was winded after his big 35 yard run and a fresh LJ came in a finished. Since TRich is hurt I would like to see both in the back field. Mybe PH screen left and LJ screen right. How do you cover that?

[alnorth]

It is you that is trying to hang onto what was. I don't care what you do at your job, Priest is obviously (to most people) in his twilight years. What a pro athlete has done means absolutely nothing as opposed to other industries. It is what he can do today. LJ can do it much better than Priest as the numbers will show you if you take the time to look at them. Your years and years of experience don't apply to an aging running back. Take your mathematically inclined dumb ass back to Football 101. SF threw out Joe Montana before he completely shot craps (luckily for us). And gained a Hall of Famer in Steve Young. It happens all the time in sports. This isn't sales or whatever you do. If you value the "name on the back of the jersey" keep up your ignorant spiel. I want production and wins.

As soon as LJ has a bad couple o games while Priest rots on the bench, you'll suddenly have a change of heart and be an avid disciple of sound statistical reasoning. "Its only 2 games people! You cant judge a guy by two games, give him more time!" And then we'd be expected to have patience on and on untill the season is shot and theres nothing we can do anymore but admit a serious mistake while the rest of the league laughs at the stupid Chiefs. We have plenty of time next year for probably's and I think so's, when we arent as big a threat for the Super Bowl. You are still freaking out over an insignificant sample size.

At the end of the day, this is about winning the Super Bowl this year. Next year can take care of itself when Holmes heads for the sunset. THIS year, RIGHT now, this offense is pretty much close to its peak potential. If you replaced Priest with some of the best backs in history, we do not significantly improve. Given that, I dont see any upside to giving an unproven half-a-season wonder the starting job and risking a decrease in performance. I do support giving him a gradually increasing workload as he ramps up to the prime of his career, but not at the expense of winning right now this season. If we were not going to contend for anything and had a veteran who was probably better but would be gone in a year or 2, then I'd start LJ, but we arent rebuilding here.

[Skip Towne]

As soon as LJ has a bad couple o games while Priest rots on the bench, you'll suddenly have a change of heart and be an avid disciple of sound statistical reasoning. "Its only 2 games people! You cant judge a guy by two games, give him more time!" And then we'd be expected to have patience on and on untill the season is shot and theres nothing we can do anymore but admit a serious mistake while the rest of the league laughs at the stupid Chiefs. We have plenty of time next year for probably's and I think so's, when we arent as big a threat for the Super Bowl. You are still freaking out over an insignificant sample size.

At the end of the day, this is about winning the Super Bowl this year. Next year can take care of itself when Holmes heads for the sunset. THIS year, RIGHT now, this offense is pretty much close to its peak potential. If you replaced Priest with some of the best backs in history, we do not significantly improve. Given that, I dont see any upside to giving an unproven half-a-season wonder the starting job and risking a decrease in performance. I do support giving him a gradually increasing workload as he ramps up to the prime of his career, but not at the expense of winning right now this season. If we were not going to contend for anything and had a veteran who was probably better but would be gone in a year or 2, then I'd start LJ, but we arent rebuilding here.
I only read the first two sentences of your post. That's all I neede to read. You say inadequate sample size while you ignore his college career + his 5 or 6 games last year. F*ck your mathematics. They just don't apply to aging running backs. This is absolutely the dumbest discussion I have ever been in on the Planet and believe me, it isn't going to last much longer. I don't argue with idiots. For the last time, mathematical formulae do not apply to football players. You don't even appear to watch the games or even to know anything about football. You just seem to want to argue something you know nothing about. On another thread you were telling this entire board that we were all missing the big point while you were in complete grasp of it. That great revelation turned out to be that we were all basing our opinion on nine, that is 9 carries. You are an ignorant and very insulting dumbass to even say something like that on this forum. Once it was pointed out to you that we were aware of LJ's college career as well as his performance last year in 5 games plus his breaking several TD runs in each of the last two preseasons, you changed tacks. Now it is statistically possible for you and your infinite wisdom to predict the success of a RB with mathematics. Predictably, your less enlightened collegues couldn't follow your brilliance so you dismissed them. You, sir are one ignorant fellow when it comes to pro football. If you could actually do what you claim with mathematics your services would be widely sought after by every NFL team. For a 6 figure + salary. You have been exposed for the fraud you are. It is quite obvious you haven't seen LJ run over LB's then outrun DB's. And, you haven't noticed Priest slowing down and ending each of the last two seasons injured. I don't think you even watch the games. If you do, then you don't know about what you are seeing. To say Priest will last till 2007 just illustrates how ignorant you truly are about football. He made noises about retiring this year. Or didn't you know that? I will not argue with you any further as it is obvious you know nothing about this subject. There is a guy on here named Parker that may want to tear you a new asshole but I'm through arguing with an idiot.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Heh. You're dreaming if you think the Chiefs AND/OR Larry Johnson honor that original contract.


I never said that the original contract would be seen through to the end. I just commented on the fact that we have no worries of other teams "looking at him".

[Skip Towne]

I never said that the original contract would be seen throught to the end. I just commented on the fact that we have no worries of other teams "looking at him".
Hey, Saul, do you know how long LJ's contract runs? Typically rookie contracts are for five years but some vary. (see Maurice Clarett) I hope it is for a longer term because right now he'd tell us to take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut. With good reason. We're dicking him around for a twilight guy when he should be putting up big numbers. If I were LJ I'd tell us to GFY and exit as soon as possible. Then sell myself to the highest bidder. That would be a considerable amount of geetus even with how little he's played. His potential + his youth = beaucoup dollars. He looks like a black John Riggins to me. Big enough to run over LB's and fast eough to outrun DB's. You don't see that combination very often. I've seen it like 4 times in 50 years. Riggins, Bo Jackson, Hershel Walker and ? The guys that want to hang on to Priest during his twilight years don't realize what they are about to squander. I suspect they are young guys that haven't experienced what a truly special RB can do for a team. LJ has that quality.

[alnorth]

I only read the first two sentences of your post. That's all I neede to read. You say inadequate sample size while you ignore his college career + his 5 or 6 games last year. F*ck your mathematics blah blah blah blah blah.

I only read the first two sentances of your post. Thats all I need to read. You say his college career proves he will be an elite back in the NFL. F*ck your college stats, they sometimes show potential but the RB graveyard is littered with the corpses of players who were good in college and didnt do dick in the NFL.

You know what Skip, untill now at least I didnt take this personally, you assh*le. I tried to make my point reasonably without sinking down to childish 3rd-grade sandbox name-calling, you whiney little baby.

I didnt "change tacts", if you think Priest's stats last year were irrelevant, than so is LJ's, especially when he averaged a whopping zero point 2 more ypc. Whoop-dee-freakin-doo. As far as this year is concerned you have nine carries. Take away one play and we arent having this conversation.

You may not be able to plot a player's career on a chart, but last year's stats have to mean something for Priest, or they dont mean anything for LJ either, you cant have it both ways. Especially when Priest has years of history and no significant decline. If you wanna argue that Priest has declined, your gonna look silly if the numbers dont even show it.

But no that last couple paragraphs probably flew right over your head, because if someone doesnt agree with you and you alone, they arent worth talking to, so why bother. I know how to disagree with someone and still respect their opinion at the end of the day. You cant even handle an adult conversation, so your not worth my time anymore.

[Wallcrawler]

And, you haven't noticed Priest slowing down and ending each of the last two seasons injured. I don't think you even watch the games. If you do, then you don't know about what you are seeing.


Well, o wise one, it seems you havent been paying that close attention either.

1. Priest finished the entire season before last, breaking the scoring record with 27 touchdowns while coming back from career threatening hip surgery.

2. Priest was hurt in week 8 last year, but by that time he had racked up 15 rushing touchdowns and a receiving touchdown already, in only 8 games. Another guy considered to be one of the best backs in the league, Ladanian Tomlinson, played all season and finished with 17 rushing touchdowns and one receiving touchdown, only 2 more scores than Priest got, but playing 8 more games. Yeah boy, Priest was really slippin, wasnt he. Gimme a break.

Priest could have come back to play for the team last year, but since the team was out of playoff contention anyway, they just gave Priest the rest of the season to get his batteries recharged, and get Johnson some game experience.

Priest was on pace to break his own single season scoring record, in case you missed that.

Not only that, but on his second carry of the game in the opener against the Jets, he busted off the biggest run he had since the 13-3 season with 35 yards.

Not exactly my idea of slowing down.



To say Priest will last till 2007 just illustrates how ignorant you truly are about football.

Really? And what qualifies you to know what the future holds for Priest Holmes? Just out of curiosity.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Hey, Saul, do you know how long LJ's contract runs? Typically rookie contracts are for five years but some vary. (see Maurice Clarett) I hope it is for a longer term because right now he'd tell us to take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut. With good reason. We're dicking him around for a twilight guy when he should be putting up big numbers. If I were LJ I'd tell us to GFY and exit as soon as possible. Then sell myself to the highest bidder. That would be a considerable amount of geetus even with how little he's played. His potential + his youth = beaucoup dollars. He looks like a black John Riggins to me. Big enough to run over LB's and fast eough to outrun DB's. You don't see that combination very often. I've seen it like 4 times in 50 years. Riggins, Bo Jackson, Hershel Walker and ? The guys that want to hang on to Priest during his twilight years don't realize what they are about to squander. I suspect they are young guys that haven't experienced what a truly special RB can do for a team. LJ has that quality.


See post #7

Johnson is signed through 2010.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

Hey, Saul, do you know how long LJ's contract runs? Typically rookie contracts are for five years but some vary. (see Maurice Clarett) I hope it is for a longer term because right now he'd tell us to take a flying f*ck at a rolling doughnut. With good reason. We're dicking him around for a twilight guy when he should be putting up big numbers. If I were LJ I'd tell us to GFY and exit as soon as possible. Then sell myself to the highest bidder. That would be a considerable amount of geetus even with how little he's played. His potential + his youth = beaucoup dollars. He looks like a black John Riggins to me. Big enough to run over LB's and fast eough to outrun DB's. You don't see that combination very often. I've seen it like 4 times in 50 years. Riggins, Bo Jackson, Hershel Walker and ? The guys that want to hang on to Priest during his twilight years don't realize what they are about to squander. I suspect they are young guys that haven't experienced what a truly special RB can do for a team. LJ has that quality.


You mean like lead the league in rushing, break the single season TD mark, be 2 games away from the GREATEST SEASON EVER for a running back only to see it dashed due to a freak injury. Come back from that injury and not only break said TD record but produce over 2100 offensive yards. And in 4 years average 19 TD's and 1400 yards. Is that the type of "special" running back you are talking about?

[Mr. Kotter]

FWIW, Priest is still MY favorite player too. :harumph:


:p

[MOhillbilly]

We should have traded holmes this spring. Hes part of the reason the D has alongway to go.
His 'i wanna get paid' cost KC a D-player in the draft.

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

We should have traded holmes this spring. Hes part of the reason the D has alongway to go.
His 'i wanna get paid' cost KC a D-player in the draft.


What?!!!

You have got to be kidding me............ :banghead:

[MOhillbilly]

What?!!!

You have got to be kidding me............ :banghead:

KC drafted LJ,because holmes was holding out. Now that LJ has made the grade. and PH hasnt finished a season healthy in years.
It would have been nice to p/u a star DB,DE. instead of having capable players riding the pine(an embaressment of riches)

[Chiefs_Mike_Topeka]

KC drafted LJ,because holmes was holding out. Now that LJ has made the grade. and PH hasnt finished a season healthy in years.
It would have been nice to p/u a star DB,DE. instead of having capable players riding the pine(an embaressment of riches)


Holmes was not holding out, Carl did not have faith that Priest could come back healthy after his hip injury. Vermiel wanted a defensive player in that draft! But not only did Priest come back he PLAYED THE ENTIRE YEAR and broke the single season TD mark in the Chiefs 13-3 season. Can't really say it has been "years" since Priest finished a season healthy.

[Gaz]

KC drafted Johnson because Holmes was injured and because he was the best player on the board at the time.

xoxo~
Gaz
Intrigued by this alternate universe MOhillbilly inhabits.

[Mecca]

KC drafted LJ,because holmes was holding out. Now that LJ has made the grade. and PH hasnt finished a season healthy in years.
It would have been nice to p/u a star DB,DE. instead of having capable players riding the pine(an embaressment of riches)


Holmes contract makes him untradeable to our cap for one. For 2 Edge James and Shaun Alexander were also on the market this year and their teams got nothing for them. Nearly every team in the league has a runningback now and will not give up much for one in a trade. Especially one that is 31 years old and nearing the end of his career.

Your little trade scenario is unrealistic, you should think about that before talking about "what they should have done".

[MOhillbilly]

Holmes was not holding out, Carl did not have faith that Priest could come back healthy after his hip injury. Vermiel wanted a defensive player in that draft! But not only did Priest come back he PLAYED THE ENTIRE YEAR and broke the single season TD mark in the Chiefs 13-3 season. Can't really say it has been "years" since Priest finished a season healthy.

what planet are you from?
he did hold out.
carl told the fans the hip was fine. remember???

in 03' he played the entire year. which means he has been......bah no use in debating w/ a bunch of HOMERS!

[MOhillbilly]

KC drafted Johnson because Holmes was injured and because he was the best player on the board at the time.

xoxo~
Gaz
Intrigued by this alternate universe MOhillbilly inhabits.


hindsite is 20/20.

Eitherway PH or LJ is money,that could be spent on the D.
KC doesnt need 2 when the D has been so terrible.

[Gaz]

It is not hindsight. Holmes was coming off a hip injury. Sure, Carl told the fans the hip was fine. What else would you expect him to do? Geez, wake up and join the real world will you? No one knew if he would make it back.

I have no idea where the “holdout” stuff came from.

As far as “KC doesn’t need 2” I disagree. Having [2] legitimate rushing threats in the backfield is a wonderful thing. An embarrassment of riches. I have read nothing but praise and awe concerning the KC backfield.

And you might have noticed that the D was not terrible yesterday. We drafted Johnson [once again, let us thank the football gods that he was still there when we picked], who was the best Defensive player on the board when we picked and the best LB period [a position of dire need, you might recall].

Larry Johnson was a great pick and he proved that on Sunday. He is the heir apparent to Holmes and will be our starting RB down the road. It is simply gravy that he is able to contribute in such a major way while Holmes is still here.

xoxo~
Gaz
Very pleased with the pick.

[Mecca]

The guys who got picked right after Larry Johnson were I believe, Nick Barnett and Tyler Brayton. I think I'd take Larry Johnson over those guys at this point in time.

[Raiderhater]

You mean like lead the league in rushing, break the single season TD mark, be 2 games away from the GREATEST SEASON EVER for a running back only to see it dashed due to a freak injury. Come back from that injury and not only break said TD record but produce over 2100 offensive yards. And in 4 years average 19 TD's and 1400 yards. Is that the type of "special" running back you are talking about?



It's just our young age, we haven't been around long enough to know what special really is.

[Saulbadguy]

I kind of doubted LJ at first because his college career was highlighted by major production vs Saint Marys Sisters of the Poor, and then a dropoff vs good teams. I didn't watch any Penn State football, so I didn't know if it was the o-line or not.

Now I know he is the real deal. It also takes a hell of a man to do what he has done in his situation. Physically, he is the better RB. His other intangibles (field vision, knowledge of the playbook, maturity) aren't on par with Priest yet, but he has a ways to go. He also is 25 years old. He turns 26 in November. We got to start utilizing him more often to get our moneys worth. I hope he is our RB of the future (the next 5-6 years).

That really doesn't take anything away from Priest. He is also a great RB, and in a big game, i'd probably take PH over LJ. However, to build for the future, LJ is the man.

[penchief]

As soon as LJ has a bad couple o games while Priest rots on the bench, you'll suddenly have a change of heart and be an avid disciple of sound statistical reasoning. "Its only 2 games people! You cant judge a guy by two games, give him more time!" And then we'd be expected to have patience on and on untill the season is shot and theres nothing we can do anymore but admit a serious mistake while the rest of the league laughs at the stupid Chiefs. We have plenty of time next year for probably's and I think so's, when we arent as big a threat for the Super Bowl. You are still freaking out over an insignificant sample size.

At the end of the day, this is about winning the Super Bowl this year. Next year can take care of itself when Holmes heads for the sunset. THIS year, RIGHT now, this offense is pretty much close to its peak potential. If you replaced Priest with some of the best backs in history, we do not significantly improve. Given that, I dont see any upside to giving an unproven half-a-season wonder the starting job and risking a decrease in performance. I do support giving him a gradually increasing workload as he ramps up to the prime of his career, but not at the expense of winning right now this season. If we were not going to contend for anything and had a veteran who was probably better but would be gone in a year or 2, then I'd start LJ, but we arent rebuilding here.

Statistically speaking, and in theory, there are many who might agree with your logic. While LJ's sample size may be small it has never consisted of a poor sample. In fact, I have never seen him look bad. It takes most backs a few carries to get warmed up. LJ has been able to prove himself in limited action.

Two things; he keeps getting more and more impressive and that is scary. And, he has never disappointed; he's never played poorly. I say that the dude is about to explode onto the scene. He may be the next superstar RB in the NFL. And when I say superstar I'm not talking about Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes, I'm talking OJ, Eric Dickerson, Bo Jackson, etc. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe I'm not. But he has unique abilities, a unique running style all his own, and an immense competitive desire. Those are the ingredients of the great ones in the past.

I love Priest Holmes and want him on the Chiefs but I can't help my selfish desire to see LJ carry the ball so that I can jump out of my seat and scream, "There's a hole! There he goes! He's gone! Oh, yeah! LJ!!!"

The fact is we've got us one hell of a talent and I want to see him bringing me excitement on Sundays. I want to give him every chance possible to run the full length of the field. I love having a weapon that no other team in this league can boast about having.

I still love Priest Holmes and want to see him playing but I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to see what LJ is going to do next.