Warped view of LJ's performance thus far.

[BigVE]

I havent seen anything in writing quite like this. Someone wrote in to S.I. and asked Ryan Houston, Special to SI.com, a fantasy question:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/fantasy/09/14/fantasy.fb.mailbag/index.html

"
After seeing what happened during Week 1, would it be crazy for me to start Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson at the same time? I have read that they will alternate series' 2 to 1. I have Steven Jackson, Fred Taylor, Brandon Jacobs, and Lamar Gordon also. Does this seem like a bad idea?
-- Paul

"On our radio show we received calls about this all day. Everyone is very concerned what kind of impact Larry Johnson is going to make on Priest Holmes' numbers this season. I really didn't see anything that made me feel Larry Johnson is an every-week starter. Sure he had two TDs but how often is Larry Johnson going to turn nine carries into 110 yards and two TDs? Holmes was the focal point of the offense and will be as long as he can stay healthy."



Excuse me, but wouldnt THAT (getting 110 and 2TD's on 9 carries) be enough to show that a guy just MIGHT be decent enough to be an every week starter?? Who is this clown?

[Skip Towne]

I'm betting it's al north. He thinks LJ should "prove himself " for three more years.

[keg in kc]

I agree with him. With Priest Holmes starting, Johnson's performance last week may be an aberration. Or it may not. If Priest hadn't taken himself out after his 35 yard run, he would've scored that TD, and his numbers would've been 120 yards and 2 TD, and Johnson's would've been 75 yards and a score. It just happened to go the way it did. It may not go that way all the time.

Right now, I'm not sure I'd start either of them. I really don't like RBbC situations in a fantasy setting. You can never be sure which RB will get the scores.

As a KC fan, on gameday, I love it.

[Eleazar]

I think what he means is, how often do running backs have 10+ YPC... and score on almost 30% of their carries...

[BigMeatballDave]

That run in the 4th Q where he was running through guys, makes a spin move, and nearly makes it to the EZ. I watched it over and over. LJ is a great RB, this loser is a TOOL...

[BigVE]

In my opinion there is no disputing the fact that LJ would be a starter ANYWHERE in this league if given the opportunity (and assuming the position isnt already filled by a stud). I foresee what has happened in St. Louis also happening in KC eventually: Priest will give up his starting spot to the young horse. I would feel just fine if we ended up having to lean on LJ if Priest couldnt play. This guy wasnt just giving fantasy advice.

[keg in kc]

This guy wasnt just giving fantasy advice.I thought he was just giving fantasy advice. He didn't say anything about Johnson not being a good back, just that Priest was the starter and the focus of the offense. Which he is.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, because LJ didn't break off an obscene amount of yardage on a minimal amount of carries last year or anything. :rolleyes:

[Skip Towne]

I agree with him. With Priest Holmes starting, Johnson's performance last week may be an aberration. Or it may not. If Priest hadn't taken himself out after his 35 yard run, he would've scored that TD, and his numbers would've been 120 yards and 2 TD, and Johnson's would've been 75 yards and a score. It just happened to go the way it did. It may not go that way all the time.

Right now, I'm not sure I'd start either of them. I really don't like RBbC situations in a fantasy setting. You can never be sure which RB will get the scores.

As a KC fan, on gameday, I love it.
Maybe you haven't seen enough of LJ to know he is better than Priest but I have. LJ is bigger, stronger and faster. And may even have better moves. I know he has a spin move that Priest doesn't have.

[BigMeatballDave]

This is such a horrible problem to have. I'm sure teams that struggle running the ball have boatloads of sympathy for us...

[BigMeatballDave]

Maybe you haven't seen enough of LJ to know he is better than Priest but I have. LJ is bigger, stronger and faster. And may even have better moves. I know he has a spin move that Priest doesn't have.I'm starting to realize this. Priest is my favorite player, so its a little painful. Though, watching LJ run tends to ease the pain...
:)

[penchief]

I agree with him. With Priest Holmes starting, Johnson's performance last week may be an aberration. Or it may not. If Priest hadn't taken himself out after his 35 yard run, he would've scored that TD, and his numbers would've been 120 yards and 2 TD, and Johnson's would've been 75 yards and a score. It just happened to go the way it did. It may not go that way all the time.

Right now, I'm not sure I'd start either of them. I really don't like RBbC situations in a fantasy setting. You can never be sure which RB will get the scores.

As a KC fan, on gameday, I love it.

I'm not so sure about that. LJ accelerates through the defense and makes it look easy. He outruns defenders' angles. He made that score look easy. He'll make a lot of scores look easy. I'm not 100% sold on the assertion that Priest would have scored that TD.

LJ's performance has been consistent. For anyone to suggest that last week was an abberation is to ignore his entire history.

[BigVE]

Maybe you haven't seen enough of LJ to know he is better than Priest but I have. LJ is bigger, stronger and faster. And may even have better moves. I know he has a spin move that Priest doesn't have.

Hold on there, thats ALOT to say right now. LJ is certainly a DIFFERENT runner than Priest but to try to say that LJ is flat out better than Priest is debateable at best. Priest can make people miss in ways that LJ cant, Priest can see/fit thru smaller holes than LJ can (at this point).

[keg in kc]

Maybe you haven't seen enough of LJ to know he is better than Priest but I have. LJ is bigger, stronger and faster. And may even have better moves. I know he has a spin move that Priest doesn't have.The question was not whether Priest is better than LJ or vice versa. The question was whether a fantasy player should start them both. Nowhere did I see any mention or question about Johnson other than to say that Priest is the starter (which he is, until the Chiefs decide he's not) and as such will get the carries and catches. 22 carries to 9 carries last week is proof of that, as is the stated plan to play Priest for 1 drive, Johnson for 2.

I'm not arguing that Priest is better than Johnson as a runningback. That's irrelevant. Priest is the starter, and will get more touches, hence more opportunities to score, in a fantasy setting.

If the Chiefs eventually give Johnson the lion's share of the carries, than all that reverses. I'm being pragmatic, not judgemental.

[Hammock Parties]

I agree. I've come to the conclusion that both do things better than the other one does, if that makes sense.

I believe LJ would have been tackled short of the goal line on Priest's TD last week (although technically Priest WAS).

[Skip Towne]

Hold on there, thats ALOT to say right now. LJ is certainly a DIFFERENT runner than Priest but to try to say that LJ is flat out better than Priest is debateable at best. Priest can make people miss in ways that LJ cant, Priest can see/fit thru smaller holes than LJ can (at this point).
LJ is only going to get better as well. Priest certainly isn't at age 32 and with his history of injuries. Priest hasn't made it through either of the last two seasons and I see no reason to believe he will make it through this one.

[keg in kc]

I'm not so sure about that. LJ accelerates through the defense and makes it look easy. He outruns defenders' angles. He made that score look easy. He'll make a lot of scores look easy. I'm not 100% sold on the assertion that Priest would have scored that TD.

LJ's performance has been consistent. For anyone to suggest that last week was an abberation is to ignore his entire history.You're arguing something completely unrelated to anything I've said.

The aberration last week was that Johnson scored a TD on one of Priest's drives.

I have no doubt about Johnson's abilities or capabilities, what I'm questioning -- as a fantasy player -- is his opportunities.

That's all.

[Skip Towne]

You're arguing something completely unrelated to anything I've said.

The aberration last week was that Johnson scored a TD on one of Priest's drives.

I have no doubt about Johnson's abilities or capabilities, what I'm questioning -- as a fantasy player -- is his opportunities.

That's all.
OK, I'll buy that.

[BigVE]

LJ is only going to get better as well. Priest certainly isn't at age 32 and with his history of injuries. Priest hasn't made it through either of the last two seasons and I see no reason to believe he will make it through this one.


Agreed. Im not willing to try to throw out the old dog just because the young pup has shown a few flashes of brilliance just yet. Priest is the starter and he deserves it. No LJ and Priest has a field day against the Jets last week too...both backs would have done well. LJ's time will come.

[milkman]

I agree. I've come to the conclusion that both do things better than the other one does, if that makes sense.

I believe LJ would have been tackled short of the goal line on Priest's TD last week (although technically Priest WAS).

I think you are absolutely right.

LJ is faster and stronger.

But Priest is, at this time, still more patient, and more determined in the red zone.

[Skip Towne]

Agreed. Im not willing to try to throw out the old dog just because the young pup has shown a few flashes of brilliance just yet. Priest is the starter and he deserves it. No LJ and Priest has a field day against the Jets last week too...both backs would have done well. LJ's time will come.
That Priest would have had a field day is pure speculation on your part. He could just have easily gone bust without Roaf. Priest is getting old and it shows. I don't want to throw him out but I don't think he can handle the load any more. The last two years indicate that.

[penchief]

You're arguing something completely unrelated to anything I've said.

The aberration last week was that Johnson scored a TD on one of Priest's drives.

I have no doubt about Johnson's abilities or capabilities, what I'm questioning -- as a fantasy player -- is his opportunities.

That's all.

This is the quote I was responding to, specifically.

If Priest hadn't taken himself out after his 35 yard run, he would've scored that TD, and his numbers would've been 120 yards and 2 TD, and Johnson's would've been 75 yards and a score. It just happened to go the way it did. It may not go that way all the time.

Like I said, I'm not sold that Priest would have scored on LJ's 35yd TD.

[Nzoner]

As an owner of LJ in 3 seperate leagues I still have him riding the bench even though he outscored all my other rb's last week.I'm just not ready to give up 20+ touches by a #1 starter for the possibility of 10 or so carries by LJ.

Like someone already said as a KC Homer even if LJ does go off and he's on my bench, it's all good.

[penchief]

I think you are absolutely right.

LJ is faster and stronger.

But Priest is, at this time, still more patient, and more determined in the red zone.

LJ looked awful determined on that 4yd TD run. He met three defenders at the one yard line and knocked all three of them onto their asses and two yards deep into the endzone, including Jonathan Vilma.

[keg in kc]

Like I said, I'm not sold that Priest would have scored on LJ's 35yd TD.I do. That run wasn't really the result of anything that LJ did. We went to a 3 TE package and just crushed the Jets with our blocking. It created a wide open hole, with nobody even in the picture to touch the ball carrier, much less try to tackle him. It was a well designed play that was executed perfectly. Priest has the wheels for that run. What he doesn't have is the speed to take it another 30 yards, and it doesn't have anything to do with his age; he's never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

[Skip Towne]

This is the quote I was responding to, specifically.



Like I said, I'm not sold that Priest would have scored on LJ's 35yd TD.
Me either. Certainly not on one play like LJ did. Priest doesn't have a 35 yard TD run in his entire career.

[HolmeZz]

I'm starting Priest and LJ this week in the same league. But only because of the cloud surrounding the Donks backfield. :shake:

[BigVE]

That Priest would have had a field day is pure speculation on your part. He could just have easily gone bust without Roaf. Priest is getting old and it shows. I don't want to throw him out but I don't think he can handle the load any more. The last two years indicate that.


Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime...no preventing or predicting them. Priests injuries havent been "wear down" type of injuries. If he was just getting tired and couldnt handle his duties at the end of the year I would agree with you....but nope, it wasnt like that. When Priest was uninjured he performed well. Period. The NON-injured parts of the last three years proves that.

[Skip Towne]

Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime...no preventing or predicting them. Priests injuries havent been "wear down" type of injuries. If he was just getting tired and couldnt handle his duties at the end of the year I would agree with you....but nope, it wasnt like that. When Priest was uninjured he performed well. Period. The NON-injured parts of the last three years proves that.
He was injured during the latter part of the season two years ago. Last year he only made it halfway through the season. It's getting worse, not better.

[tk13]

Some of you people act like Priest is a sloth out there. He had a 35 yard run last week, he had a couple 30+ yard runs last year, he ran 50 some odd yards against the Colts defense off a screen pass last year. The guy can still run.

[beer bacon]

LJ's stats in the game against the Titans last year:

7 carries for 104 yards and two TDs.

[tk13]

He was injured during the latter part of the season two years ago. Last year he only made it halfway through the season. It's getting worse, not better.
Priest played the entire season and set the NFL touchdown record two years ago...

[4th and Long]

Priest played the entire season and set the NFL touchdown record two years ago...
:thumb:

[Nzoner]

Hey Skip did you know that with 2 td's tomorrow night LJ will tie john Riggins' record for consecutive games with 2 td's?

[penchief]

I do. That run wasn't really the result of anything that LJ did. We went to a 3 TE package and just crushed the Jets with our blocking. It created a wide open hole, with nobody even in the picture to touch the ball carrier, much less try to tackle him. It was a well designed play that was executed perfectly. Priest has the wheels for that run. What he doesn't have is the speed to take it another 30 yards, and it doesn't have anything to do with his age; he's never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

So what you're saying is that during Holmes' entire Chiefs career they've never run that play and blocked that well before?

When LJ breaks a long one notice how the defenders frantically attempt to adjust their angles at the last second. He outruns their angles. He makes it look simple. He always has. What is Priest's longest TD run as a chief and why doesn't the offensive line block as well for him as they do for Larry?

I suppose Priest would have scored on LJ's 97yarder in preseason? But of course all the credit goes to the line on that one, too.

If that is going to be your assertion every time LJ makes a long run look easy, you are going to be singing that tune a lot.

[Skip Towne]

Priest played the entire season and set the NFL touchdown record two years ago...
Nope, he was caught from behind by a Denver DB and didn't finish the season.

[Nzoner]

Nope, he was caught from behind by a Denver DB and didn't finish the season.

That was 3 years ago,2 years ago KC made the play-offs with Priest.

[Skip Towne]

Hey Skip did you know that with 2 td's tomorrow night LJ will tie john Riggins' record for consecutive games with 2 td's?
I saw that the other day. You can ask Saul, before that was posted here I called LJ a black John Riggins.

[BigVE]

That was 3 years ago,2 years ago KC made the play-offs with Priest.


PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS?

[milkman]

LJ looked awful determined on that 4yd TD run. He met three defenders at the one yard line and knocked all three of them onto their asses and two yards deep into the endzone, including Jonathan Vilma.

That, to me, was an example of LJ's power.

Priest's TD was an example of his determination.

[keg in kc]

So what you're saying is that during Holmes' entire Chiefs career they've never run that play and blocked that well before?

When LJ breaks a long one notice how the defenders frantically attempt to adjust their angles at the last second. He outruns their angles. He makes it look simple. He always has. What is Priest's longest TD run as a chief and why doesn't the offensive line block as well for him as they do for Larry?

I suppose Priest would have scored on LJ's 97yarder in preseason? But of course all the credit goes to the line on that one, too.

If that is going to be your assertion every time LJ makes a long run look easy, you are going to be singing that tune a lot.You're either not very bright, or being intentionally obtuse. Let me repeat myself:

Priest has the wheels for that run. What he doesn't have is the speed to take it another 30 yards, and it doesn't have anything to do with his age; he's never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

Priest has never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

Got that? Do I need to say it again?

Priest has never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

For the third time on the thread, I will say that the subject here is about FANTASY f*cking football. It's not about whether Holmes or Johnson is a better runningback than the other. It's about which one will touch the ball more often, and as long as Priest is the starter -- which he is -- he's going to touch the ball.

That doesn't mean Larry sucks. That doesn't mean Larry won't score. That doesn't mean Larry won't make amazing plays. All it means is that Priest is the starter and will have more opportunities.

Now quit wasting my time with silly bullshit.

[penchief]

That, to me, was an example of LJ's power.

Priest's TD was an example of his determination.

Overpowering three defenders at once and outrunning everyone for the full length of the football field could also define determination.

[Nzoner]

Personally I find it quite amusing that we as Chiefs fans would give a fock who's running the ball as long as we're moving the chains and crossing the stripe. :toast:

[Skip Towne]

Where does it say this is about fantasy football? I wouldn't be on this thread if I'd known that. I never post on those threads.

[Chief Roundup]

Hey Skip did you know that with 2 td's tomorrow night LJ will tie john Riggins' record for consecutive games with 2 td's?
This information must not of made it to the person that wrote that article. It is amazing considering the completely different time in NFL and the difference in playing time.

[Hammock Parties]

Priest is really going to be motivated by all this. I can't wait to see him really bust out in one game.

[penchief]

You're either not very bright, or being intentionally obtuse. Let me repeat myself:

Priest has the wheels for that run. What he doesn't have is the speed to take it another 30 yards, and it doesn't have anything to do with his age; he's never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

Priest has never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

Got that? Do I need to say it again?

Priest has never had breakaway speed. LJ does.

For the third time on the thread, I will say that the subject here is about FANTASY f*cking football. It's not about whether Holmes or Johnson is a better runningback than the other. It's about which one will touch the ball more often, and as long as Priest is the starter -- which he is -- he's going to touch the ball.

That doesn't mean Larry sucks. That doesn't mean Larry won't score. That doesn't mean Larry won't make amazing plays. All it means is that Priest is the starter and will have more opportunities.

Now quit wasting my time with silly bullshit.

I never said anything about Priest's age, who was the starter, or who was the better running back. It appeared to me that you asserted with certainty that Holmes would have scored a TD on the same play that LJ did. I simply stated that I wasn't so sure. History would tend to disagree with you, as well.

Did you or did you not contend that? That is the only thing I tried to say. And that is specifically what I questioned. All that other stuff you're saying that I'm ignoring is a bunch of hooey because I didn't say you said any of that stuff.

[Tinlar]

LJ is only going to get better as well. Priest certainly isn't at age 32 and with his history of injuries. Priest hasn't made it through either of the last two seasons and I see no reason to believe he will make it through this one.

You should be taken out and beaten for talking about injuries in a serious way like this. That so much bad mojo I can't even begin to think about it...

[Hammock Parties]

Skip, while I somewhat agree with your position, you should get your facts straight. Priest made it through 2003. He didn't make it through 2002 or 2004.

[penchief]

Priest is really going to be motivated by all this. I can't wait to see him really bust out in one game.

I hope so. I love Priest. There's nothing I'd love to see more. With both backs kicking butt, we're going to win a lot of football games.

[Skip Towne]

You should be taken out and beaten for talking about injuries in a serious way like this. That so much bad mojo I can't even begin to think about it...
You should be taken out and beaten for believing in mojo. Do you believe in the Easter Bunny too?

[Nzoner]

Skip, while I somewhat agree with your position, you should get your facts straight. Priest made it through 2003. He didn't make it through 2002 or 2004.

No shit?

I pointed that out about 15 minutes ago.

[milkman]

Where does it say this is about fantasy football? I wouldn't be on this thread if I'd known that. I never post on those threads.

Read the original post.

This is a guy asking a "fantasy expert" if he'd be crazy to start both Priest and LJ ahead of guys like Steven Jackson, Brandon Jacobs and Lamar Gordon.

[Chief Roundup]

You should be taken out and beaten for believing in mojo. Do you believe in the Easter Bunny too?
Easy on the mojo there. Surely you have met several charming people in your life.

[Skip Towne]

Read the original post.

This is a guy asking a "fantasy expert" if he'd be crazy to start both Priest and LJ ahead of guys like Steven Jackson, Brandon Jacobs and Lamar Gordon.
I see that now. If it had been in the header on the front page, I wouldn't be here. I hate fantasy football.

[BigVE]

I see that now. If it had been in the header on the front page, I wouldn't be here. I hate fantasy football.

You posted HOW MANY times in this thread without even knowing what it was all about? Brilliant. 55 posts is all it took. :clap:

[Skip Towne]

You posted HOW MANY times in this thread without even knowing what it was all about? Brilliant. 55 posts is all it took. :clap:
My posts pertained to the relative merits of the two backs. As were the posts of the people I was discussing it with. They had nothing to do with fantasy football.

[BigVE]

My posts pertained to the relative merits of the two backs. As were the posts of the people I was discussing it with. They had nothing to do with fantasy football.


I hear ya'
...had to give you some crap though.

[Skip Towne]

I hear ya'
...had to give you some crap though.
Hehe

[Mojo Rising]

FFL aside. I think LJ is the better pure runner as far as speed and power are concerned. However, I think Priest is the better back to base our offensive scheme on with his patience, slashing, cutbacks, screens, etc. All of that sets upt the rest of the offense.

[Bwana]

"I really didn't see anything that made me feel Larry Johnson is an every-week starter."

This guy is a total strokestick. Johnson would start on MOST teams in the NFL.

[beer bacon]

"I really didn't see anything that made me feel Larry Johnson is an every-week starter."

This guy is a total strokestick. Johnson would start on MOST teams in the NFL.

I think he is referring to every-week starter in the every-week fantasy starter sense. He doesn't think LJ is always going to have an 11 ypc average every week, and he doesn't think he is going to get a ton of carries.

[Valiant]

I agree with him. With Priest Holmes starting, Johnson's performance last week may be an aberration. Or it may not. If Priest hadn't taken himself out after his 35 yard run, he would've scored that TD, and his numbers would've been 120 yards and 2 TD, and Johnson's would've been 75 yards and a score. It just happened to go the way it did. It may not go that way all the time.

Right now, I'm not sure I'd start either of them. I really don't like RBbC situations in a fantasy setting. You can never be sure which RB will get the scores.

As a KC fan, on gameday, I love it.


Would love to have you in my fantasy league.. Hell i would trade you a kicker and a defense for both of them in a fantasy league... They both will have great fantasy years...

[Valiant]

I think he is referring to every-week starter in the every-week fantasy starter sense. He doesn't think LJ is always going to have an 11 ypc average every week, and he doesn't think he is going to get a ton of carries.


No, but 75ypgs and 1td a week is great for other starters in FFL...

[keg in kc]

Would love to have you in my fantasy league.. Hell i would trade you a kicker and a defense for both of them in a fantasy league... They both will have great fantasy years...There'd be no trade, because I wouldn't have drafted them in the first place.

I think Priest and Larry could each have nice fantasy seasons, if you look at the raw numbers when the year is over. But they'll hurt each other in a fantasy sense, and I think one or both of them could drastically rise and fall in their week-to-week production (Johnson, probably, unless he ends up taking the starting job). You're not going to get Priest Holmes' gargantuan numbers of the last few years doubled, you're getting them divided between two players. So if you play them both, you're getting the equivalent of one vintage Priest. And if you decide to play one or the other, and not both, you never really know which one is going to score, you never know which one is going to get big yards.

And we aren't going to score all our points on the ground. We won't have 3 rushing TDs per week, we won't rush for 200 yards/week. Green will have his 25 TDs and 3500-4500 yards.

People are excited by week one. And they should be, it was great production, both fantasy and real. But I think it's a mistake to expect to see that kind of fantasy scoring from both of them all year. They'd both have to stay healthy, and they'd either have to split the carries/catches/TDs down the middle, or LJ would have to continue to rush at a 10+ ypc clip. Now, I'm not saying it can't happen. It could.

And if it does, it'll be historic.

[Valiant]

There'd be no trade, because I wouldn't have drafted them in the first place.

I think Priest and Larry could each have nice fantasy seasons, if you look at the raw numbers when the year is over. But they'll hurt each other in a fantasy sense, and I think one or both of them could drastically rise and fall in their week-to-week production (Johnson, probably, unless he ends up taking the starting job). You're not going to get Priest Holmes' gargantuan numbers of the last few years doubled, you're getting them divided between two players. So if you play them both, you're getting the equivalent of one vintage Priest. And if you decide to play one or the other, and not both, you never really know which one is going to score, you never know which one is going to get big yards.

And we aren't going to score all our points on the ground. We won't have 3 rushing TDs per week, we won't rush for 200 yards/week. Green will have his 25 TDs and 3500-4500 yards.

People are excited by week one. And they should be, it was great production, both fantasy and real. But I think it's a mistake to expect to see that kind of fantasy scoring from both of them all year. They'd both have to stay healthy, and they'd either have to split the carries/catches/TDs down the middle, or LJ would have to continue to rush at a 10+ ypc clip. Now, I'm not saying it can't happen. It could.

And if it does, it'll be historic.

No he will not have the seasons he had before...

but realistically

priest can easily get 1300total yards and 20tds

and LJ can get 900total yards and 15tds with this offense... That is starting fantasy value for running backs in most leagues as long as you do not do some 8team shit...

[Skip Towne]

"I really didn't see anything that made me feel Larry Johnson is an every-week starter."

This guy is a total strokestick. Johnson would start on MOST teams in the NFL.
I can't think of a team LJ wouldn't start for. Well, except us. VD is a tool.

[keg in kc]

Don't forget we'll have to pass the ball, if for no other reason than to make teams respect our ability to do so.

I think for Johnson to get the kind of premeire production you seem to expect, Priest will have to either be injured or be replaced in the starting lineup. If they continue with the 2/1 drive ratio, Johnson just won't get enough touches to score 15 times.

[Valiant]

Don't forget we'll have to pass the ball, if for no other reason than to make teams respect our ability to do so.

I think for Johnson to get the kind of premeire production you seem to expect, Priest will have to either be injured or be replaced in the starting lineup. If they continue with the 2/1 drive ratio, Johnson just won't get enough touches to score 15 times.


I have already made a beat with a couple of Donk fans that are friends of mine(remember that our O went conserviate in the second half last week) that the Chiefs will set a new record this year if no one else gets hurt...

Our offense is set up to where we can have

2 1000yard rushers
2 1000yard recieivers
1 4000yard passer

I honestly believe we can do it... Our offense sucked last week for half the game because of injuries... Hell trent was on pace for 300 yards before the loss of Roaf and that is with our rushing attack... If we have no more setbacks this Offense will be a miracle in action...

[Skip Towne]

I have been watching football for 50 years and there has been an adage all that time that if you run a successful play, you keep running it till they prove they can stop it. Then you run it to the other side till they prove they can stop it. I think the same is true for RB's. Keep running an RB at them till they prove they can stop him. Thus far, nobody has been able to stop LJ. So what does VD do? Give him 9 carries. The dude is senile or just still won't admit he was wrong about LJ. Hell, he was wrong about Priest being an every down back as well. But he was forced to admit that.

[Hammock Parties]

I have been watching football for 50 years

God you're old.
ROFL

I can't even fathom what being alive for 50 years is like.

No offense. Age brings wisdom.

[Skip Towne]

God you're old.
ROFL

I can't even fathom what being alive for 50 years is like.

No offense. Age brings wisdom.
I haven't been alive for 50 years. I've been alive for 60 years. Just watching football for 50 years. My mom died two weeks ago and she was born in 1915. At the funeral I told my brothers that the airplane was only 12 years older than mom. They were amazed.

[keg in kc]

Condolances for you and all your family about your mom, Skip.

[Hammock Parties]

I haven't been alive for 50 years. I've been alive for 60 years. Just watching football for 50 years. My mom died two weeks ago and she was born in 1915. At the funeral I told my brothers that the airplane was only 12 years older than mom. They were amazed.

I know...I was just saying I can't even fathom what being alive for 50 years is like, and you've been WATCHING FOOTBALL for that length of time.

Your brain must be crammed with game memories.

[jspchief]

Personally, I think this Raider game will be a perfect example of why Holmes should be the starter. I don't think LJ's style will get it done in this game.

[kchero]

On my fantasy team I dont have Priest, but I do have LJ and you bet Im starting him! He proved his worth last year.

[penchief]

Personally, I think this Raider game will be a perfect example of why Holmes should be the starter. I don't think LJ's style will get it done in this game.

Whatever.

What is it that you see in the Raiders' defense that is going to expose LJ as second-string material? Nothing has slowed him down yet. Is the Raider D that good? If you are predicting that he will have a bad game then okay, but to make a statement that seems to suggest that you will be proven correct about LJ if he has a bad game is totally another. If you think you are correct then explain ahead of time what it is about this upcoming game that is going to prove that LJ's "style" won't get it done.

[The Bad Guy]

Ryan Houston owns the site I write for.

And he's not talking about Johnson from an NFL perspective, he's talking about him from a fantasy starter perspective.

LJ isn't an every week starter. Realistically, how many times is a guy going to average over 10 yards per carry on 9 carries with 2 tds?

[keg in kc]

I can't speak for jspchief, but my guess is he's saying that straight ahead power running isn't the way to attack the raiders.

Now, I think LJ has proved that while he's different than priest, he can excel in any running play we call, whether it's a draw, sweep, or any kind of outside run, as well as the inside runs.

I think either one could have a big game. Maybe both, again. I just don't think a big game from both will happen every week all year. Not with Priest getting 20+ touches, and LJ getting 10 or fewer.

[jspchief]

Whatever.

What is it that you see in the Raiders' defense that is going to expose LJ as second-string material? Nothing has slowed him down yet. Is the Raider D that good? If you are predicting that he will have a bad game then okay, but to make a statement that seems to suggest that you will be proven correct about LJ if he has a bad game is totally another. If you think you are correct then explain ahead of time what it is about this upcoming game that is going to prove that LJ's "style" won't get it done.I'm not sure why I should bother. You're so busy stroking LJ's cock, you won't consider anything I have to say anyway.

Here's why I don't think LJ will have as much success against the Rai ders as Holmes. The Raiders are tough and big up the middle, with converted D-lineman as OLBs. The way to expose them will be to beat them to the edge. Something that Holmes does as well as any back in the league, and LJ has not shown a talent for at this point. I think the Raiders D will force us to bounce a lot of stuff to the sidelines.

LJ is a great RB, and probably could start for any other team in the league. But we have the best RB in the NFL in Holmes. You don't bench someone of his talent. The only knock anyone can find on Holmes is his durability. I agree. But until he actually gets hurt, there is no way he should lose his starting spot.

[Skip Towne]

I know...I was just saying I can't even fathom what being alive for 50 years is like, and you've been WATCHING FOOTBALL for that length of time.

Your brain must be crammed with game memories.
I remember high school games back in the mid '50's. But the single wing stuff is getting kind of rusty. When I played we ran the split T formation. (So did Oklahoma when they won 47 straight games). Have you ever heard of the sidesaddle T? It looked a lot like the wishbone but had nuances. I never did understand the double wing formation. I didn't see enough of it. Marv Levy's Wing T was pretty effective since the other pro coaches had never seen it. There were no wide receivers before about 1961. That evolved from an innovation called the "Lonesome End" created by Paul Dietzel at Army. He rarely went to the huddle. They flashed him hand signals. His name was Carpenter and as an Army Captain, he called in napalm on his own unit as they were being overrun by Vietcong. Dietzel then moved to LSU where he created the platoon system. He had three separate teams. The White team (defense) The Go team (offense) and the Chinese Bandits (special teams). The "I" formation showed up about '65 and survives to this day. Come and gone include the Wishbone and the Houston Veer. Everybody ran the Wishbone until a Nebraska DC solved it by "mirroring " it. It then disappeared quickly. I'm not sure when the "Pro Set" offense appeared but I'm guessing early '70's. and it survives. So yes, my head is full of football from 50 years of watching it. Yours will be too 40 years from now.

[Hammock Parties]

I remember high school games back in the mid '50's. But the single wing stuff is getting kind of rusty. When I played we ran the split T formation. (So did Oklahoma when they won 47 straight games). Have you ever heard of the sidesaddle T? It looked a lot like the wishbone but had nuances. I never did understand the double wing formation. I didn't see enough of it. Marv Levy's Wing T was pretty effective since the other pro coaches had never seen it. There were no wide receivers before about 1961. That evolved from an innovation called the "Lonesome End" created by Paul Dietzel at Army. He rarely went to the huddle. They flashed him hand signals. His name was Carpenter and as an Army Captain, he called in napalm on his own unit as they were being overrun by Vietcong. Dietzel then moved to LSU where he created the platoon system. He had three separate teams. The White team (defense) The Go team (offense) and the Chinese Bandits (special teams). The "I" formation showed up about '65 and survives to this day. Come and gone include the Wishbone and the Houston Veer. Everybody ran the Wishbone until a Nebraska DC solved it by "mirroring " it. It then disappeared quickly. I'm not sure when the "Pro Set" offense appeared but I'm guessing early '70's. and it survives. So yes, my head is full of football from 50 years of watching it. Yours will be too 40 years from now.

That's pretty amazing.

[penchief]

I'm not sure why I should bother. You're so busy stroking LJ's cock, you won't consider anything I have to say anyway.

Here's why I don't think LJ will have as much success against the Rai ders as Holmes. The Raiders are tough and big up the middle, with converted D-lineman as OLBs. The way to expose them will be to beat them to the edge. Something that Holmes does as well as any back in the league, and LJ has not shown a talent for at this point. I think the Raiders D will force us to bounce a lot of stuff to the sidelines.

LJ is a great RB, and probably could start for any other team in the league. But we have the best RB in the NFL in Holmes. You don't bench someone of his talent. The only knock anyone can find on Holmes is his durability. I agree. But until he actually gets hurt, there is no way he should lose his starting spot.

Yes, as you so elequently put it, since the day we drafted him I have been touting his ability. He has done absolutely nothing to prove me wrong.

On the other hand, there are a lot of chief fans whose objectivity is blinded by loyalty. It's evident on this board. I don't knock that because I am very loyal myself. However, too many refuse to give LJ the credit he deserves or do so begrudgingly. I'm tired of hearing how his success is due to everybody else but not his own ability. We've all heard it......Priest softened up the D, nobody touched him, etc.

I know exactly where some of you are coming from. Most of the time I have to go to the sports bar to watch the chiefs. When LJ started his first game last year I was talking to some chief fans and telling them they were going to love LJ. They were big Priest fans and wanted nothing to do with that LJ talk. Even last week when LJ was kicking ass they sat there like statues refusing to cheer whenever he had a great run.

Now I don't know about the rest of you but I'm out of my seat cheering no matter who's making a play.

[keg in kc]

It's evident on this board. I don't knock that because I am very loyal myself. However, too many refuse to give LJ the credit he deserves or do so begrudgingly. I'm tired of hearing how his success is due to everybody else but not his own ability. We've all heard it......Priest softened up the D, nobody touched him, etc.If that's why you were trying to argue with me earlier, then don't lump me in that group. I was talking about that one play as I saw it, nothing more, nothing less, and not making a general statement about either back.

I was not a fan of Johnson when we drafted him, mainly because I hate Penn State (I'm a Michigan fan...) and I was not impressed with the way he gained his yards in college. I've become a fan since, however. I've seen signs of the same vision and patience that Priest exemplifies, and he's more explosive. The one and only concern I have about Johnson now is that he still holds the ball only in his right hand.

Even so, I think it's clear that he has the tools to be our #1 running back, and that he will be some day. That day just isn't here yet.

And basically everything I said in this thread was said with an eye on fantasy football...

[Skip Towne]

Condolances for you and all your family about your mom, Skip.
Thank you, sir. It was tough on all of us.

[Skip Towne]

I'm not sure why I should bother. You're so busy stroking LJ's cock, you won't consider anything I have to say anyway.

Here's why I don't think LJ will have as much success against the Rai ders as Holmes. The Raiders are tough and big up the middle, with converted D-lineman as OLBs. The way to expose them will be to beat them to the edge. Something that Holmes does as well as any back in the league, and LJ has not shown a talent for at this point. I think the Raiders D will force us to bounce a lot of stuff to the sidelines.

LJ is a great RB, and probably could start for any other team in the league. But we have the best RB in the NFL in Holmes. You don't bench someone of his talent. The only knock anyone can find on Holmes is his durability. I agree. But until he actually gets hurt, there is no way he should lose his starting spot.
I don't pay much attention to what you have to say because you don't know what you are talking about a lot of the time. LJ can beat Priest to the corner easily because he is much faster. One of the first times I saw LJ carry, the LB's were trying to adjust their angles but LJ ran right past them. I have avoided even talking to you on this board because you come off as such a prick. This is not just my idea but that of several of my friends here as well. I'm going back to ignoring you, just thought you would like to know why. I really don't care what you think.

[jspchief]

I don't pay much attention to what you have to say because you don't know what you are talking about a lot of the time. LJ can beat Priest to the corner easily because he is much faster. One of the first times I saw LJ carry, the LB's were trying to adjust their angles but LJ ran right past them. I have avoided even talking to you on this board because you come off as such a prick. This is not just my idea but that of several of my friends here as well. I'm going back to ignoring you, just thought you would like to know why. I really don't care what you think.Great post.

[Skip Towne]

Great post.
Hey, maybe we can be friends

[HolmeZz]

I know...I was just saying I can't even fathom what being alive for 50 years is like, and you've been WATCHING FOOTBALL for that length of time.

Your brain must be crammed with game memories.

STFU n00b!

[Bob Dole]

Nope. Having the opportunity to tie Riggins' NFL record for consecutive games with 2 or more TDs doesn't indicate anything at all...

Moron.

[milkman]

Yes, as you so elequently put it, since the day we drafted him I have been touting his ability. He has done absolutely nothing to prove me wrong.

On the other hand, there are a lot of chief fans whose objectivity is blinded by loyalty. It's evident on this board. I don't knock that because I am very loyal myself. However, too many refuse to give LJ the credit he deserves or do so begrudgingly. I'm tired of hearing how his success is due to everybody else but not his own ability. We've all heard it......Priest softened up the D, nobody touched him, etc.

I know exactly where some of you are coming from. Most of the time I have to go to the sports bar to watch the chiefs. When LJ started his first game last year I was talking to some chief fans and telling them they were going to love LJ. They were big Priest fans and wanted nothing to do with that LJ talk. Even last week when LJ was kicking ass they sat there like statues refusing to cheer whenever he had a great run.

Now I don't know about the rest of you but I'm out of my seat cheering no matter who's making a play.

Like you, I don't care who's making the play, I am cheering my ass off.

As far as the Priest/LJ comparison is concerned, while I think Priest brings something to the red zone that other backs don't, including LJ, I also think that the LJ brings more explosiveness to the offense, and that at this point in their careers, the Chiefs would be better served if the carries/series were split the opposite way.

[milkman]

Thank you, sir. It was tough on all of us.

You and I haven't seen eye to eye in the past, but I don't wish any ill on anyone, so I'd like to offer my condolences as well.

[milkman]

I remember high school games back in the mid '50's. But the single wing stuff is getting kind of rusty. When I played we ran the split T formation. (So did Oklahoma when they won 47 straight games). Have you ever heard of the sidesaddle T? It looked a lot like the wishbone but had nuances. I never did understand the double wing formation. I didn't see enough of it. Marv Levy's Wing T was pretty effective since the other pro coaches had never seen it. There were no wide receivers before about 1961. That evolved from an innovation called the "Lonesome End" created by Paul Dietzel at Army. He rarely went to the huddle. They flashed him hand signals. His name was Carpenter and as an Army Captain, he called in napalm on his own unit as they were being overrun by Vietcong. Dietzel then moved to LSU where he created the platoon system. He had three separate teams. The White team (defense) The Go team (offense) and the Chinese Bandits (special teams). The "I" formation showed up about '65 and survives to this day. Come and gone include the Wishbone and the Houston Veer. Everybody ran the Wishbone until a Nebraska DC solved it by "mirroring " it. It then disappeared quickly. I'm not sure when the "Pro Set" offense appeared but I'm guessing early '70's. and it survives. So yes, my head is full of football from 50 years of watching it. Yours will be too 40 years from now.

I've only been watching football for 40 years, but I thought that Sid Gillman introduced the Pro Set in the 50's with the Rams.

That, of course, was before my time.
I'm just thinking that I read that somewhere, but I also realize that I could have a faulty memory, since it's been as long ago as high school years that I was reading about Gillman and the Rams.

[Skip Towne]

I've only been watching football for 40 years, but I thought that Sid Gillman introduced the Pro Set in the 50's with the Rams.

That, of course, was before my time.
I'm just thinking that I read that somewhere, but I also realize that I could have a faulty memory, since it's been as long ago as high school years that I was reading about Gillman and the Rams.
I really don't know where it came from. It just showed up one day.

[Valiant]

Ryan Houston owns the site I write for.

And he's not talking about Johnson from an NFL perspective, he's talking about him from a fantasy starter perspective.

LJ isn't an every week starter. Realistically, how many times is a guy going to average over 10 yards per carry on 9 carries with 2 tds?


No and that example is horrible, there willnot be one runner who will average 10ypc...

But do you honestly believe LJ cannot average 75yards per game and 1 touchdown??? Is that not a good starter in this league when most rb's cant even get 10 touchdowns in a season...

[The Bad Guy]

No and that example is horrible, there willnot be one runner who will average 10ypc...

But do you honestly believe LJ cannot average 75yards per game and 1 touchdown??? Is that not a good starter in this league when most rb's cant even get 10 touchdowns in a season...

No, I don't think LJ can average 75 yards per game, not on limited carries.

I would never start a backup RB unless I played in a league with over 12 guys.

This was the first game where LJ and Priest have shared carries and everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon that they can do that every week?

[Valiant]

No, I don't think LJ can average 75 yards per game, not on limited carries.

I would never start a backup RB unless I played in a league with over 12 guys.

This was the first game where LJ and Priest have shared carries and everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon that they can do that every week?


That is the point of averaging a week... There will be weeks when he gets more then nine carries a week...

[The Bad Guy]

That is the point of averaging a week... There will be weeks when he gets more then nine carries a week...

Averages mean nothing to me. If you start him one week and he gets you 5 for 34 and then the next week he's on your bench and gets you 130 and 2 scores than he's averaging 80 yards a game, but he's only averaging 34 yards in your starting lineup.

I'm not going to put a backup RB in my starting lineup unless half my team is hurt or I'm in a huge league.

[penchief]

Like you, I don't care who's making the play, I am cheering my ass off.

As far as the Priest/LJ comparison is concerned, while I think Priest brings something to the red zone that other backs don't, including LJ, I also think that the LJ brings more explosiveness to the offense, and that at this point in their careers, the Chiefs would be better served if the carries/series were split the opposite way.

Well said. I can agree with that completely.

[Skip Towne]

Well said. I can agree with that completely.
Me too.

[Valiant]

Even with a shitty week, with the Raiders stuffing the run left and right LJ scored more fantasy points then 10 other starters... Hmm and people wouldn't start him... The guy on average this year will get 900 yards and 15touchdowns, unless you have two stud RB's (priest,LT,alexander)that can get a touchdown everyweek you would be stupid not have LJ..