My turn to ask for helpful thoughts/prayers. [Archive]

Frankie

10-07-2005, 12:46 AM

My son (who is now 24) has been experiencing a very severe and debilitating attack of depression/anxiety since early July. It was triggered by an unhealthy attachment to his girlfriend and sudden deep fear of losing her (though there's no indication of such possibility). This happened to him 5 years ago as well, but he came out of it in about 3 months. The same triggering agent (different girl). This time it is not showing any signs of letting up. In fact it's getting alarmingly worse. He breaks into uncontrolable tears and super-anxiety. He recognizes that the attachment is un-natural and does not want to be that way. But can't understand why he is. His mom, years ago, made a visciously dirty long fight of our divorce (1988) and relentlessly put him, despite my warnings, in the crossfire of her anger towards me. She had many emotionally abusive episodes with him and a few times drove him to anxcious tears by telling him she would go away and he would never see her again FOREVER, if he didn't comply with something she wanted him to. I've had very little contact with her since he's been of age. But by his accounts she has mellowed some now. Unfortunately, I think the damage is done. His friends have intervened and have his hopes of recovery pinned on only a psych rehab center in Arizona. The cost. $38,000 for 5 weeks! He is on leave of absence from work and will drop his grad courses. So his mom and I will have to pick up the bill. It's very steep, but he is very close to the end of his rope. I am worried sick about him. Have to also hold back the "I told you so" urge toward his mom.The money, as steep as it is, is secondary to my worry about him. But I don't know if these psych camps are effective. Does anyone know anything about them? I'm so afraid that he has totally pinned his hopes on this rehab treatment and it might backfire if the result is less than satisfactory.

I've been trying to use the CP as a distraction. But I'm about to lose it. :( BTW, my son is also an avid Chiefs fan. Please send a good thought his way. Thanks.

KChiefsQT

10-07-2005, 02:42 AM

I'm not sure about how effective it is, but its clear something needs to be done in order for him to get some serious help. I'll say a prayer for both you and your son and a happy hopeful recovery for him as well. Sorry.

the Talking Can

10-07-2005, 04:15 AM

OldTownChief

10-07-2005, 05:15 AM

Good luck to you both, prayers go out to you.

Gaz

10-07-2005, 05:23 AM

You will be in my thoughts.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sending good thoughts.

Phobia

10-07-2005, 06:09 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree that his only hope is a $38k facility but I do wish you all the very best.

Otter

10-07-2005, 06:45 AM

Done.

ExtremeChief

10-07-2005, 06:52 AM

Will do

ZepSinger

10-07-2005, 07:02 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree that his only hope is a $38k facility but I do wish you all the very best.

That's what I was thinking.

I know for instance that many churches(mine included) have excellent trained counselors on staff that can help in any emotional need. And many times at NO cost(again, mine included). Not sure if that's an option for him, but I just wanted to let you know. Any further info you might want, feel free to PM me.

He's in my prayers.

Z

Mr. Kotter

10-07-2005, 07:23 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree that his only hope is a $38k facility but I do wish you all the very best.

Exactly my sentiments.

God bless.

Seek

10-07-2005, 07:34 AM

wow, Frankie I feel for you. I hope things turn out okay. I am sure there has to be something he can take to help balance out his depression.

Not that it is the same thing or to the same extent, but I do understand what your son is going through. I cherish my dogs so much that I depress my self for weeks just thinking about that day soon approaching. The more I think of it, the worse I get. I have to end up doing something to totally take my mind off it. Not something that will give me time to reflect on it.

Simplex3

10-07-2005, 08:38 AM

He may need some "shock therepy" to get himself turned around right now, but make sure he realized it will never be cured, only managed. After this you need to be sure he's been told what his warning signs are and what to do the next time around.

Good luck to both of you. Also, giving the lady that loaned him a uterus (his "mother") the "I told you so BITCH" speech may be in order here. She needs to accept her role in this so that she doesn't subvert his therepy later on.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 08:38 AM

sounds pricey...what you need is someone to recommend a good therapist, not easy I know...get him on some meds until he can see straight...I dropped out of a semester in similiar circumstances, but I went out patient...by the way, just talk to his professors, they will understand..grad school causes problems even if you're "healthy"...depression can be dealt with, just takes time
He's had two psychiatrists and two psychologists. In addition I've consulted extensively with a friend of mine who is a neurologist. Through him two more very knowledgeable psychiatrists have been consulted. His mother has consulted her cousin who is a psychiatrist out in AZ. All in all my son has been very resistant to the measures so far. The psychiatrists my friend have talked to a few days ago have recommended "aggressive" treatment. "150 mg of Effexor, is a joke." said one of them, "He needs to be taking three times that much until he stabilizes. And be observed in the hospital for a few days." My son WILL NOT do this anymore. He is blindly following his friends' advice and has rebelled against ours. One of them apparently has gone through a similar rehab center and claims to have gotten results. Though, when I talked with her, the cause and the symptoms of her case was quite different. They've practically packed his suitcase and bought his plane ticket. I have considered intervening through the court and have the sheriff pick him up and take him to the hospital, but haven't had the heart as a father. Very frustrating.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 08:46 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree that his only hope is a $38k facility but I do wish you all the very best.
That's just the base cost. Add to it Doctors and medication fees, his plane tickets, mine, his mom's (in the 4th week they require a family reunion!) and it'll be closer to $50k. I'm convinced the aggressive therapy recommended by a couple of psychiatrists will work just as well or maybe even better, right there in Iowa City. But he and his "intervening" friends have completely made up his mind to go to the rehab center, parents' cost be damned.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 08:52 AM

He may need some "shock therepy" to get himself turned around right now, but make sure he realized it will never be cured, only managed. After this you need to be sure he's been told what his warning signs are and what to do the next time around.
One of the doctors I recently consulted me told me about ECT (Electroconvulsive Therapy). Of course as a later recourse if needed. But he said it is very safe and has an 80% success rate. And the success is almost immediate. But at this stage, my son is not listening to me. In fact he and his friends have not answered my contacts since Tuesday. Because they know I am suggesting (at least for now) aggressive treatment in Iowa City over the AZ camp.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 09:04 AM

Also, giving the lady that loaned him a uterus (his "mother") the "I told you so BITCH" speech may be in order here. She needs to accept her role in this so that she doesn't subvert his therepy later on.
Believe me. It is a big temptation. But I have to make nice, however fake, with her until this crisis is over. By all accounts she is very concerned for him now and not acting bitchy in regards to this. But she did the damage years ago. :banghead:

Mr. Kotter

10-07-2005, 09:21 AM

One of the doctors I recently consulted me told me about ECT (Electroconvulsive Therapy). Of course as a later recourse if needed. But he said it is very safe and has an 80% success rate. And the success is almost immediate. But at this stage, my son is not listening to me. In fact he and his friends have not answered my contacts since Tuesday. Because they know I am suggesting (at least for now) aggressive treatment in Iowa City over the AZ camp.

Boy that sure puts you between a rock and a hard place.....especially if you are pickin' up the tab. :shake:

the Talking Can

10-07-2005, 09:33 AM

He's had two psychiatrists and two psychologists. In addition I've consulted extensively with a friend of mine who is a neurologist. Through him two more very knowledgeable psychiatrists have been consulted. His mother has consulted her cousin who is a psychiatrist out in AZ. All in all my son has been very resistant to the measures so far. The psychiatrists my friend have talked to a few days ago have recommended "aggressive" treatment. "150 mg of Effexor, is a joke." said one of them, "He needs to be taking three times that much until he stabilizes. And be observed in the hospital for a few days." My son WILL NOT do this anymore. He is blindly following his friends' advice and has rebelled against ours. One of them apparently has gone through a similar rehab center and claims to have gotten results. Though, when I talked with her, the cause and the symptoms of her case was quite different. They've practically packed his suitcase and bought his plane ticket. I have considered intervening through the court and have the sheriff pick him up and take him to the hospital, but haven't had the heart as a father. Very frustrating.

well, you've covered your bases...and its good you have some qualified people to get advice from, that can be hard to find

i find it hard to believe that $50,000 for a week of therapy is his best option (one caveat: if he has attempted suicide...then he needs to be monitored)...his problems will persist long after that...sometines I think it can be a crutch, instead of the long slow work of recovery you spend a week in fancy digs and and everyone feels like "they did something" (and those places know you are desperate "to do something" hence the price tag $$$)...long term though, who knows...

sorry man, I think your instincts are right but it sounds like it may be out of your hands...hang in there...in the end you just want him healthy even if it means burning some cash....

Frankie

10-07-2005, 09:36 AM

Boy that sure puts you between a rock and a hard place.....especially if you are pickin' up the tab. :shake:
Frustrating, isn't it?

ROYC75

10-07-2005, 09:39 AM

WOW, I feel for ya. Hope all goes well, I know where you are coming from dealing with this, been there, done that, but with out the help, shotgunned it ourselves.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 10:07 AM

well, you've covered your bases...and its good you have some qualified people to get advice from, that can be hard to find

i find it hard to believe that $50,000 for a week of therapy is his best option (one caveat: if he has attempted suicide...then he needs to be monitored)...his problems will persist long after that...sometines I think it can be a crutch, instead of the long slow work of recovery you spend a week in fancy digs and and everyone feels like "they did something" (and those places know you are desperate "to do something" hence the price tag $$$)...long term though, who knows...
It's actually a 5-week process. As for suicidal tendencies, he has assured me all along that he has none. The last time I visited him I asked her friend/consultant (last Sunday) about it and she also said that's the case. All of a sudden, in the last 3 days I've heard from indirect sources that he has expressed the tendencies. Whether he is faking it to force the issue, I'm not sure. But rule of thumb in psychology is that whenrver a patient says "suicide" they have to take it seriously.

sorry man, I think your instincts are right but it sounds like it may be out of your hands...hang in there...in the end you just want him healthy even if it means burning some cash....

I love this young man deeply. It makes me desperately sick when I see him (or hear him over the phone) break into all out crying. On my part, I've raised him on hugs, patience and understanding. I don't know if you are old enough to remember a TV series called "The Courtship of Eddie's Father." That was very close to how my relationship with him was in his childhood. Later I followed my prethought of gradually becoming less father/authority and more his friend.

Only if that shrew hadn't showed back up in our lives! :banghead:

Frankie

10-07-2005, 10:16 AM

WOW, I feel for ya. Hope all goes well, I know where you are coming from dealing with this, been there, done that, but with out the help, shotgunned it ourselves.

Thanks. The shame of it all is he is extremely talented and creative. Absolutely great in writing and communication. He was always in the 99 percentile in the national test of skills. After his college soph year, when his grades were devastated with the previous episode of this, he managed a straight 4.00 the rest of the way. Has had trouble getting into the law schools that he wants due to the overall GPA (3.1) and that has hurt him too.

the Talking Can

10-07-2005, 10:26 AM

It's actually a 5-week process. As for suicidal tendencies, he has assured me all along that he has none. The last time I visited him I asked her friend/consultant (last Sunday) about it and she also said that's the case. All of a sudden, in the last 3 days I've heard from indirect sources that he has expressed the tendencies. Whether he is faking it to force the issue, I'm not sure. But rule of thumb in psychology is that whenrver a patient says "suicide" they have to take it seriously.

I love this young man deeply. It makes me desperately sick when I see him (or hear him over the phone) break into all out crying. On my part, I've raised him on hugs, patience and understanding. I don't know if you are old enough to remember a TV series called "The Courtship of Eddie's Father." That was very close to how my relationship with him was in his childhood. Later I followed my prethought of gradually becoming less father/authority and more his friend.

Only if that shrew hadn't showed back up in our lives! :banghead:

oh, well, 5 weeks makes a lot more sense...I didn't understand...I know I wouldn't have pulled through wiithout my parents...not because they help with the therapy, per se, but because they offered unconditional love...as a parent you're on the outside looking in, you want to fix it but you can't do so directly...it's obvious how you feel about your son and I'm sure you and he will pull through...take care

Calcountry

10-07-2005, 11:08 AM

done

Johnson&Johnson

10-07-2005, 11:12 AM

Frankie

10-07-2005, 11:20 AM

I'm also divorced with a son. A lot younger than yours.

Prayers and thoughts be with you guys!

I think he can definitely use some reassurance of some sort from someone he feels closest to, someone he can relate to his inner feelings and his insecurity with feelings of abandonement. One of the best way to cope with something like that is to have someone who has gone through similars and have successfully overcame them to have a talk with him.

Hopefully, this rehab center at least offers that. My ex-wife's cousin is a psychiatrist associated with that outfit. I've left him a message to call me. He'll shed more light on the services there.

greg63

10-07-2005, 11:33 AM

Absolutely! You both are in my thoughts and prayers.
God Bless!

Rain Man

10-07-2005, 12:41 PM

Gosh. Sorry to hear, Frankie. Hopefully this is something he'll work out of.

TRing

10-07-2005, 01:01 PM

My prayers are with you, Frankie.

big nasty kcnut

10-07-2005, 01:54 PM

Done remember tell him you love him. Trust me it can work wonders.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 02:08 PM

Done remember tell him you love him. Trust me it can work wonders.
I've always showered him with it. Even when I've had to discipline him I've always made sure he understood my being angry at him did not mean I didn't love him. As I said before, when I watched the series "The Courtship of Eddie's Father" in the early 70s I decided to model my (future) father role after the Bill Bixby character. To the extent that real life allows, I must say I was quite successful.

Bowser

10-07-2005, 02:19 PM

Good luck and stay strong.

Fish

10-07-2005, 03:13 PM

dirk digler

10-07-2005, 03:53 PM

Best of luck Frankie and I hope your son can overcome this.

Just curious what does his current girlfriend think about all of this?

Frankie

10-07-2005, 05:15 PM

Faith can overcome all. Don't lose hope and be strong for him, you've always got friends and support here.

Committing to a $50K center is tough, but depending on the underlying seriousness of it, if that is what's best, then do it. A lot of times in these situations, the best usually costs the most.

Don't forget to keep yourself and your ex in good mental health through this. Props for reaching for support already. You both will be very important to his recovery as well. You sound like a great parent.

Don't lose faith. We'll be keeping you in our prayers.
Thanks Fish,

Your use of the word faith reminds me. I myself am not religious. In the sense that bringing God into a cultlike environment leads to abuse of God. But I believe in God (not religion) and I think such belief leaves you with hope even in the darkest hour. But, in his anger and frustration, he shuts me down when I encourage him to trust in God.

Frankie

10-07-2005, 05:25 PM

Best of luck Frankie and I hope your son can overcome this.

Just curious what does his current girlfriend think about all of this? This one is a fairly recent girfriend. I think she may have a fragile personality herself. My son , I have a feeling, has not shared ALL of his concerns about her with me. He seems to make extra efforts to promote her positives in my mind, and avoid talking about any possible negatives. According to him she has been very supportive. But I get a sense he detects some weakening of that support, right or wrong. So all in all, she is an enigma to me. Right now he has told her he needs to get well before they are back together. So their relationship is on hold.

morphius

10-07-2005, 11:30 PM

Frankie - Best of luck for your son, well keep him in my thoughts.

Eleazar

10-08-2005, 12:12 AM

You got it.

Pinko :D

Fish

10-08-2005, 12:38 AM

Something to keep in mind....

Geographic relocation, even temporary, is always viewed as a helpful, hopeful thing by someone like him in his situation. Sort of a "grass is greener" type mindset. I'd hate to see him get down there and be in a new environment and think things are better, and then have the same symptons show up again when the camp is over and the "vacation feeling" goes away. If the help in AZ isn't completely effective, coming back to Iowa could bring back depressive feelings and cause him to feel that all his problems are there and he has to go back to them. I'm not trying to say the outfit in AZ wouldn't work, but being that far away and that expensive, it shouldn't be viewed as the only solution. It could take more than 5 weeks for him to work through his problems and be independently stable. Whatever the solution, it shouldn't be time dependent like the AZ place sounds.

It's a very tough call though, because you don't want to lose his trust in you by keeping him there when he's set on going. If you force him to stay, he could feel trapped. But if it were me, I would try to get as many opinions as possible where you are first.

We'll be keeping you in our prayers.

Phobia

10-08-2005, 06:33 AM

If the help in AZ isn't completely effective, coming back to Iowa could bring back depressive feelings and cause him to feel that all his problems are there and he has to go back to them.

Yeah. All the idiots from Iowa have that feeling going back.

J Diddy

10-08-2005, 06:36 AM

Frankie - Best of luck for your son, well keep him in my thoughts.

Why must we keep him in your thoughts, couldn't I keep him in mine?(which I will)

Coach

10-08-2005, 07:47 AM

Sorry I was late to respond this thread Frankie.

My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.

StcChief

10-08-2005, 08:08 AM

Frankie

10-08-2005, 09:23 AM

Who's in charge the parents or the 'interveining friends'
They think it's best let them buck up.

I'd stay in Iowa City. F' AZ, the rich folks from CA, AZ maybe able to go there. Got to be a happy medium.

That looks like the high priced not sure if it will work option.
Exactly my thoughts. But he, totally fed up with his lack of progress, has given the reigns to his friends. His parents have been relagated to the background. He does not even want to hear that we have not yet even done "aggressive treatment" in IA city. "Nancy (name changed here for privacy- one of the intervening friends) has gone to a similar place and has healed." Facts be damned that her case and symptoms were all totally different (hers was a result of an abussive lesbian relationship). Unfortunately, in his current mental condition, he has blind hope in this solution. My concern is he may not get immediate positive results and that may worsen his condition.

kregger

10-08-2005, 09:36 AM

Prayers are with you. Hope things work out. Just be there when he needs you most.

Frankie

10-08-2005, 04:09 PM

Just got a text message from him: "I love you dad."
His first contact with me in 4 days.

keg in kc

10-08-2005, 04:14 PM

Depression's no joke. Good luck.

the Talking Can

10-08-2005, 07:11 PM

Just got a text message from him: "I love you dad."
His first contact with me in 4 days.

heartbreaking...i don't know if it is possible...but you should go out there...he'd never admit it but he might be relieved to have someone take charge for a moment (besides his friends)...tough situation, keep the faith...

KS Smitty

10-08-2005, 07:16 PM

Frankie, our thoughts and prayers are with you and your son.

I hope things work out for him (and you).

RINGLEADER

10-08-2005, 07:27 PM

Just got a text message from him: "I love you dad."
His first contact with me in 4 days.

That's great to hear Frankie.

I've had personal experience with close friends in similar situations who have gone to rehab clinics (that deal aggressively with underlying depressions which are typically the root cause of the drinking/drug abuse) and had great results. By no means are they foolproof, but in the cases I'm familiar with these people wouldn't have been able to cope with their depression without the intervention.

Johnson&Johnson

10-11-2005, 11:00 AM

heartbreaking...i don't know if it is possible...but you should go out there...he'd never admit it but he might be relieved to have someone take charge for a moment (besides his friends)...tough situation, keep the faith...

Yes. I second that idea. Go out there and hang out with the kid for the time being and show him you care enough to be there in person for this. Support talk is cheap if you can't let your actions do the support.

Frankie

10-11-2005, 11:03 AM

Yes. I second that idea. Go out there and hang out with the kid for the time being and show him you care enough to be there in person for this. Support talk is cheap if you can't let your actions do the support.

It's a 5 week program. I'm supposed to be there all of the 4th week. (So is his mother!)

Amnorix

10-11-2005, 11:07 AM

It's a 5 week program. I'm supposed to be there all of the 4th week. (So is his mother!)

Might want to discuss this with the staff or whoever in advance. Personally, I'm not sure I oculd be in the same room with her if I were you...

Best of luck and my best wishes to you and your son. Your ex can rot in hell.

Frankie

10-11-2005, 11:28 AM

Might want to discuss this with the staff or whoever in advance. Personally, I'm not sure I oculd be in the same room with her if I were you...

Best of luck and my best wishes to you and your son. Your ex can rot in hell.

Thanks dude. I HAVE talked to the staff. His "family" being there in the 4th week is part of the program. As for my ex, I have not been able to be in the same setting with her ever since our joint custody thing ended when he graduated from HS. I have 3 weeks to prepare myself. She was very abusive (all 99 pounds of her) as a wife and exposed my son (and myself) to a lot of that after our divorce. People like her seek violent confrontation and they get perverted satisfaction out of it. They are emotional predators and always try to find a "victim" who has to take their sh!t. As if that's the only way they get an identity or self esteem. Although my son has been saying "mom has mellowed a lot" I simply cannot believe it. I have long stories about her. The staff doctor I spoke to asked me to fax a chronology to him.

Amnorix

10-11-2005, 01:04 PM

Frankie

10-11-2005, 02:31 PM

I know 1/1,000th what you're talking about. My 100 lbs. max-when-soaking-wet sister-in-law dominated my wife's household (including parents) when they all lived together. She wasn't nearly as F'ed up as your ex was/is, however, thankfully. She was a beast, but not outright evil (at least, not most of the time).

Now that she's married and has a kid, she's mellowed out quite a bit, which is good because if she'd continued on the way she was, I would have stopped all social contact with her, resulting in all kinds of family uproar.

ROFL
I wish somebody would marry MY ex. But they figure her out after they know her a short while.

I think part of the reason my son has been so forgiving toward her and susceptible to the tons of guilt trips she has laid on him over the years, IS her being petite. In a young son's mind mom's small stature helps her seem vulnerable.