Schaub is better

[Eleazar]

Schaub, a spot starter for the Falcons, finished the day at 18/34 298yd 3 TD 0 INT.

Vick has not thrown for 200 yards yet this year, had only three 200 yard games last season, and only has a handful of games in his career with comparable passing numbers to his understudy's performance today, the best ever probably being 12/22/02, vs Det, 337 yd, 2 TD, 1 INT.

Who would you start? :hmmm:

[Pitt Gorilla]

Schaub, a spot starter for the Falcons, finished the day at 18/34 298yd 3 TD 0 INT.

Vick has not thrown for 200 yards yet this year, had only three 200 yard games last season, and only has a handful of games in his career with comparable passing numbers to his understudy's performance today, the best ever probably being 12/22/02, vs Det, 337 yd, 2 TD, 1 INT.

Who would you start? :hmmm:
I don't know. They both have their advantages. What are their respective winning percentages?

[jAZ]

Schaub is (and has always been) a better passing QB right now. I'm not sure that translates into a better QB overall.

[Mr. Laz]

i think schaub would be a good option to replace Green in a few years.

i was hoping that the chiefs would of traded scott fujita for him or something.

[JBucc]

Vick wins and that's the bottom line. But I too would like to have Schaub as Green's successor

[beavis]

Ok, lets not even bother to mention that he rushed for almost 1,000 yards last year. His passing stats are mediocre, but don't even bother to mention that he's never had anyone to throw to.

The Vick sucks bandwagon is filled with idiots.

[4th and Long]

Ok, lets not even bother to mention that he rushed for almost 1,000 yards last year. His passing stats are mediocre, but don't even bother to mention that he's never had anyone to throw to.

The Vick sucks bandwagon is filled with idiots.
Horse shit.

THE COLD HARD FACTS ABOUT MICHAEL VICK

We feel bad for ESPN “pundit” and former NFL quarterback Sean Salisbury, who recently released his list of the league’s top 10 offensive players.

We feel bad for him because, as far as we can tell, Salisbury was forced by ESPN management to create this list against his will and better judgment. After all, how do you explain it when a “pundit” sticks a pigskin pitchfork through his own reputation and then jumps up and down on its limp, bloody carcass, squeezing out every last oozing ounce of credibility? Clearly, he was under orders from a higher power to create a list that was strong on hype and controversy yet weak on credibility and Cold, Hard Football Facts.

Michael Vick, for example, landed at No. 7 on the list. Salisbury described the Atlanta quarterback as “the ultimate weapon in the NFL.” That’s funny. We looked at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and found that “the ultimate weapon” has all the firepower of a dime-store bottle rocket. In fact, in a four-year career, Vick has accounted for just 49 touchdowns. It’s solid, yes, but hardly worthy of the hyperbolic praise “ultimate weapon” or a spot on the list of top 10 offensive players in the NFL.

Salisbury’s credibility apparently tripped over upper management diktat and the years of ESPN-generated Vick hype we’ve been forced to endure since the quarterback came out of Virginia Tech in 2001. The hype, put most simply, is out of all proportion to Vick’s actual performances on the field. Yes, Vick is one of the most thrilling players in football. But that excitement masks actual onfield production which can only aspire to be mediocre some day.

For example, 23 QBs tossed more touchdown passes than Vick (14) last year. Twenty-five quarterbacks passed for more yardage than Vick (2,313) – including Arizona’s Josh McCown and Tennessee’s Billy Volek, who started just eight games in 2004.

But wait a minute, Cold, Hard Football Facts dude, you’re forgetting that Vick is one of the most feared ballcarriers in the NFL. Yes, he is. But even if we include his three TD runs (count ‘em, 3), it turns out that 20 quarterbacks last year accounted for more trips to the end zone than Vick did both rushing and passing (17 total). Even aging warhorse Vinny Testaverde – now out of football – got the ball in the end zone more often than “the ultimate weapon” (17 TD passes, 1 TD run) in 2004.

If we look at receivers and running backs, we find that 22 players, including running backs Shaun Alexander and LaDanian Tomlinson, put the ball in the end zone more often last year than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

And what about total yardage? Vick must be near the top of the list. After all, as Salisbury pointed out, he’s a threat “with his legs and his arm.” Well, Vick passed for 2,313 yards and ran for 902 – that’s a total of 3,215 yards of offense last year. Sixteen quarterbacks, including players like Joey Harrington, who’s in danger of losing his job in Detroit, accounted for more yards of offense than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

To recount Vick’s place in the NFL offensive hierarchy last year:
23 quarterbacks passed for more TDs
25 quarterbacks passed for more yardage
20 quarterbacks passed and ran for more TDs
22 offensive players put the ball in the end zone more often
16 quarterbacks accounted for more yards of offense
But we’re not even sure Vick’s inclusion on the list was the worst of Salisbury’s mistakes. Of course, you know our default position: any list that that puts the Picasso of Choke Artists, Peyton Manning, ahead of transcendent postseason performer Tom Brady is automatically invalid. Brady is No. 10 on Salisbury’s list. Manning is No. 1.

Apparently, Salisbury has chosen to follow the Pete Prisco path of pigskin analysis, walking into a stone wall of Cold, Hard Football Facts that refute his hypothesis and opting to simply ignore them. Salisbury’s top offensive weapon in the NFL has posted a Craig Krenzel-esque 55.4 passer rating in five playoff losses. Apparently, Salisbury doesn’t watch playoff football.

Salisbury was lavish in his praise of Brady, saying that no quarterback since Joe Montana “has more poise” and adding that “I don’t think his championship run is done.” In other words, Salisbury believes Brady will become just the third quarterback to win four Super Bowls, or perhaps the first to win five. Still, he doesn’t merit the lofty ranking of the most overhyped player in sports or the most inconsistent postseason performer in NFL history.

Other than that, it was a nice job.

link (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=366)

[HolmeZz]

Stats don't win games.

[David.]

He wins.


Start Vick.

[4th and Long]

Stats don't win games.
Neither do injury prone QBs ala Michael Vick.

[JBucc]

Neither do injury prone QBs ala Michael Vick.Neither does 4500 yard 27 td trent green

and Vick has won games. Just look at their record with him compared to without him

[Spicy McHaggis]

i think schaub would be a good option to replace Green in a few years.

i was hoping that the chiefs would of traded scott fujita for him or something.


I wouldn't mind him to replace green at all. He's got a good attitude and wouldn't mind sitting behind Green and learning. I hope he doesn't have the Billy Volek complex though and be content to sit and spot start.

[HolmeZz]

Neither do injury prone QBs ala Michael Vick.

If there's one thing Michael Vick does do well, it's win games.

[4th and Long]

He wins.

Start Vick.
Oh really?

Chiefs 56 - Falcons 10

SCORE BOARD, BITCH!
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6092/experience7ps.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=experience7ps.jpg)

[4th and Long]

Neither does 4500 yard 27 td trent green
Way to stray from the subject of Michael Vick. Fuggin n00bs.

[JBucc]

Oh really?

Chiefs 56 - Falcons 10

SCORE BOARD, BITCH!
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6092/experience7ps.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=experience7ps.jpg)
Falcons-NFC championship game
Chiefs-donkey shit

[JBucc]

Way to stray from the subject of Michael Vick. Fuggin n00bs.The point was, big numbers don't matter if you lose. Vick wins

[4th and Long]

Falcons-NFC championship game
Chiefs-donkey shit
Again I see you can't stay with the topic of Michael Vick without brining up the Chiefs or one of their players. Your debate teacher is weeping as we speak.
Falcons-NFC championship game
Chiefs-donkey shit
Playoff births are meaningless unless you go to the big dance and win.

Is Vick wearing a Super Bowl ring?

No?

I DIDN'T THINK SO!

[JBucc]

Again I see you can't stay with the topic of Michael Vick without brining up the Chiefs or one of their players. Your debate teacher is weeping as we speak.

Playoff births are meaningless unless you go to the big dance and win.

Is Vick wearing a Super Bowl ring?

No?

I DIDN'T THINK SO!
I was hoping to refer to something you might comprehend, but that's obviously impossible. Playoff births and getting deeper into them every year means you are improving and will have a better shot next year. Your Vick hating is pointless and ignorant. He wins games. PERIOD

[4th and Long]

I was hoping to refer to something you might comprehend, but that's obviously impossible. Playoff births and getting deeper into them every year means you are improving and will have a better shot next year. Your Vick hating is pointless and ignorant. He wins games. PERIOD
So he's getting better is he? How many playoff births has he had since his "improvement?"

[JBucc]

So he's getting better is he? How many playoff births has he had since his "improvement?"I think 2. But I don't even know why the f*** I'm arguing about this I don't give a s*** about the Falcons.

[4th and Long]

I think 2. But I don't even know why the f*** I'm arguing about this I don't give a s*** about the Falcons.
Hey, you started in first by quoting me and diverting to Trent Green. :p

[Halfcan]

Doesn't he have an investment service too?

[4th and Long]

Doesn't he have an investment service too?
Har Har Har Har Har ...

[Eleazar]

I was hoping to refer to something you might comprehend, but that's obviously impossible. Playoff births and getting deeper into them every year means you are improving and will have a better shot next year. Your Vick hating is pointless and ignorant. He wins games. PERIOD

ROFL

Kordell Stewart 'won games' too.

We'll see if Black Jesus can surpass his legacy someday.

[Deberg_1990]

The refs also had a terrible call in the Atlanta/Pats game....They called Schaub out of bounds right before he dived for a crucial 1st down. Problem was, he wasnt even close to being out of bounds and the ref was right on top of the play. Of course the play couldnt be overturned because its ruled dead when a player steps out of bounds..horrible, horrible call.

[Valiant]

I thought they got to the playoffs because of their defense and a shitty NFC...

[Deberg_1990]

ROFL

Kordell Stewart 'won games' too.

We'll see if Black Jesus can surpass his legacy someday.

Exactly...Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono had excellent winning percentages......

[Halfcan]

Yeah Deberg I agree, that just killed them and probably cost them any chance of winning. Pats get all the breaks. The NFL could'nt have the Golden Boys with 3 losses now could they.

[Dunit35]

Well after watching Schaub play today I decided Im going to trade for him on Madden 06. I started a new franchise and Green will probably retire at the end of this season (he always retires after year 1). Either Im going to try to trade for Schaub or see If I can move into the #1 draft spot and draft Leinhart. I have the firepower to get the number 1 pick in draft. I think.

[Deberg_1990]

Yeah Deberg I agree, that just killed them and probably cost them any chance of winning. Pats get all the breaks. The NFL could'nt have the Golden Boys with 3 losses now could they.


hahah..agreed.....The NFL just needs to loosen the instant replay rules and let everything be "reviewable".

[Eleazar]

I thought they got to the playoffs because of their defense and a shitty NFC...

They won a division where no other team had a winning record and beat the Rams (the worst playoff team in history IIRC). Then lost to Philly by 17.

[the Talking Can]

I thought they got to the playoffs because of their defense and a shitty NFC...

bingo

I'd look at Schaub after Green, but his price just went waaaaay up

[NaptownChief]

I was hoping to refer to something you might comprehend, but that's obviously impossible. Playoff births and getting deeper into them every year means you are improving and will have a better shot next year. Your Vick hating is pointless and ignorant. He wins games. PERIOD


He has won 2 playoff games in his career. This is his 5th NFL season, that is hardly impressive especially when you consider how pitiful the NFC has been the last few years.

[Garcia Bronco]

Schaub, a spot starter for the Falcons, finished the day at 18/34 298yd 3 TD 0 INT.

Vick has not thrown for 200 yards yet this year, had only three 200 yard games last season, and only has a handful of games in his career with comparable passing numbers to his understudy's performance today, the best ever probably being 12/22/02, vs Det, 337 yd, 2 TD, 1 INT.

Who would you start? :hmmm:

How much did Atlanta win by?

[Garcia Bronco]

Horse shit.

THE COLD HARD FACTS ABOUT MICHAEL VICK

We feel bad for ESPN “pundit” and former NFL quarterback Sean Salisbury, who recently released his list of the league’s top 10 offensive players.

We feel bad for him because, as far as we can tell, Salisbury was forced by ESPN management to create this list against his will and better judgment. After all, how do you explain it when a “pundit” sticks a pigskin pitchfork through his own reputation and then jumps up and down on its limp, bloody carcass, squeezing out every last oozing ounce of credibility? Clearly, he was under orders from a higher power to create a list that was strong on hype and controversy yet weak on credibility and Cold, Hard Football Facts.

Michael Vick, for example, landed at No. 7 on the list. Salisbury described the Atlanta quarterback as “the ultimate weapon in the NFL.” That’s funny. We looked at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and found that “the ultimate weapon” has all the firepower of a dime-store bottle rocket. In fact, in a four-year career, Vick has accounted for just 49 touchdowns. It’s solid, yes, but hardly worthy of the hyperbolic praise “ultimate weapon” or a spot on the list of top 10 offensive players in the NFL.

Salisbury’s credibility apparently tripped over upper management diktat and the years of ESPN-generated Vick hype we’ve been forced to endure since the quarterback came out of Virginia Tech in 2001. The hype, put most simply, is out of all proportion to Vick’s actual performances on the field. Yes, Vick is one of the most thrilling players in football. But that excitement masks actual onfield production which can only aspire to be mediocre some day.

For example, 23 QBs tossed more touchdown passes than Vick (14) last year. Twenty-five quarterbacks passed for more yardage than Vick (2,313) – including Arizona’s Josh McCown and Tennessee’s Billy Volek, who started just eight games in 2004.

But wait a minute, Cold, Hard Football Facts dude, you’re forgetting that Vick is one of the most feared ballcarriers in the NFL. Yes, he is. But even if we include his three TD runs (count ‘em, 3), it turns out that 20 quarterbacks last year accounted for more trips to the end zone than Vick did both rushing and passing (17 total). Even aging warhorse Vinny Testaverde – now out of football – got the ball in the end zone more often than “the ultimate weapon” (17 TD passes, 1 TD run) in 2004.

If we look at receivers and running backs, we find that 22 players, including running backs Shaun Alexander and LaDanian Tomlinson, put the ball in the end zone more often last year than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

And what about total yardage? Vick must be near the top of the list. After all, as Salisbury pointed out, he’s a threat “with his legs and his arm.” Well, Vick passed for 2,313 yards and ran for 902 – that’s a total of 3,215 yards of offense last year. Sixteen quarterbacks, including players like Joey Harrington, who’s in danger of losing his job in Detroit, accounted for more yards of offense than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

To recount Vick’s place in the NFL offensive hierarchy last year:
23 quarterbacks passed for more TDs
25 quarterbacks passed for more yardage
20 quarterbacks passed and ran for more TDs
22 offensive players put the ball in the end zone more often
16 quarterbacks accounted for more yards of offense
But we’re not even sure Vick’s inclusion on the list was the worst of Salisbury’s mistakes. Of course, you know our default position: any list that that puts the Picasso of Choke Artists, Peyton Manning, ahead of transcendent postseason performer Tom Brady is automatically invalid. Brady is No. 10 on Salisbury’s list. Manning is No. 1.

Apparently, Salisbury has chosen to follow the Pete Prisco path of pigskin analysis, walking into a stone wall of Cold, Hard Football Facts that refute his hypothesis and opting to simply ignore them. Salisbury’s top offensive weapon in the NFL has posted a Craig Krenzel-esque 55.4 passer rating in five playoff losses. Apparently, Salisbury doesn’t watch playoff football.

Salisbury was lavish in his praise of Brady, saying that no quarterback since Joe Montana “has more poise” and adding that “I don’t think his championship run is done.” In other words, Salisbury believes Brady will become just the third quarterback to win four Super Bowls, or perhaps the first to win five. Still, he doesn’t merit the lofty ranking of the most overhyped player in sports or the most inconsistent postseason performer in NFL history.

Other than that, it was a nice job.

link (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=366)

You posted this horseshit the last time this was brought up and the cold hard facts are that stats don't win football games. How else could you explain that better than the time Priest Holmes gained 300 plus all purpose yards and the chiefs lost that day.

[CupidStunt]

Neither do injury prone QBs ala Michael Vick.

Except he does, so that comment is pretty stupid.

[CupidStunt]

He has won 2 playoff games in his career. This is his 5th NFL season, that is hardly impressive especially when you consider how pitiful the NFC has been the last few years.

Even stupider it gets. Funny.

Vick, in 2 full years, has carried Atlanta to the postseason both times, winning once BOTH times.

I'm damn sure KC would like a QB who could win in the postseason.

If you think Schaub is a better overall QB than Vick, you're on crack. Anyone can come in and spot-start games putting up some stats. Kelly Holcombe a familar name to you?

There's a reason those guys NEVER hold down starting jobs.

[milkman]

You posted this horseshit the last time this was brought up and the cold hard facts are that stats don't win football games. How else could you explain that better than the time Priest Holmes gained 300 plus all purpose yards and the chiefs lost that day.

You are absolutely right, stats don't win football games.

Teams do.

They also lose football games.

Put Vick on the Chiefs, and he won't win games, cause he can't throw (a fact 4th's stats establish) and play defense, too.

[Garcia Bronco]

Again I see you can't stay with the topic of Michael Vick without brining up the Chiefs or one of their players. Your debate teacher is weeping as we speak.

Playoff births are meaningless unless you go to the big dance and win.

Is Vick wearing a Super Bowl ring?

No?

I DIDN'T THINK SO!

Props...because after 30 plus years....the Chiefs have been meaningless?

[Garcia Bronco]

You are absolutely right, stats don't win football games.

Teams do.

They also lose football games.

Put Vick on the Chiefs, and he won't win games, cause he can't throw (a fact 4th's stats establish) and play defense, too.

I know...because even with the perfect offense you still can't win games.

[JBucc]

The point is if you go around and ask all the NFL defensive coordinators to name one player the don't want to see, you'll hear Vick's name come up a lot.

[Coach]

Vick is really good at running the ball. But if he doesn't learn how to read defenses and throw the ball away more, then his career in the NFL will be short lived, with all those hits that he's been taking.

[JBucc]

Vick is really good at running the ball. But if he doesn't learn how to read defenses and throw the ball away more, then his career in the NFL will be short lived, with all those hits that he's been taking.
True probably

[milkman]

I know...because even with the perfect offense you still can't win games.

Look at teams that have had outstanding offenses through the years, but have lacked defense, and you'll see a list of teams that haven't been able to make it to the big dance.

60s Chargers with one of the most underrated great QBs ever, John Hadl.
Dan Fouts Chargers.

The current Colts.

Did the Rams of the 50s win an NFL title?

There is a lot of truth to that old adage that offense wins games, but defense wins championships

[Garcia Bronco]

Look at teams that have had outstanding offenses through the years, but have lacked defense, and you'll see a list of teams that haven't been able to make it to the big dance.

60s Chargers with one of the most underrated great QBs ever, John Hadl.
Dan Fouts Chargers.

The current Colts.

Did the Rams of the 50s win an NFL title?

There is a lot of truth to that old adage that offense wins games, but defense wins championships

agreed...and Atlanta has a good defense too.

[Thig Lyfe]

i think schaub would be a good option to replace Green in a few years.

i was hoping that the chiefs would of traded scott fujita for him or something.

Schaub would be a fantastic heir to Green's spot.

If only there was a way to get him...

[JBucc]

agreed...and Atlanta has a good defense too.Too bad they didn't show up today

[milkman]

agreed...and Atlanta has a good defense too.

Exactly.

But think about this.

Name one QB that wasn't a good pocket passer that won, or even went to the SB.

John Elway could scramble and get out of trouble, but he was always looking to pass the ball first.

Steve Young couldn't get the 9ers there until he learned to become a passer first, and runner second.

Every QB that has played in the SB has a passer mentality.

Vick might well be the first to get there with a runner mentality, but I'd be surprised if it happens.

[Garcia Bronco]

Too bad they didn't show up today

I've actually become an Atlanta subscriber.....they've got so many Hokies...I have to like them.

[Rausch]

You posted this horseshit the last time this was brought up and the cold hard facts are that stats don't win football games. How else could you explain that better than the time Priest Holmes gained 300 plus all purpose yards and the chiefs lost that day.

Easy.

Holmes was a great player on a bad team.

Vick is a bad QB on a Good team.

[Garcia Bronco]

Exactly.

But think about this.

Name one QB that wasn't a good pocket passer that won, or even went to the SB.

John Elway could scramble and get out of trouble, but he was always looking to pass the ball first.

Steve Young couldn't get the 9ers there until he learned to become a passer first, and runner second.

Every QB that has played in the SB has a passer mentality.

Vick might well be the first to get there with a runner mentality, but I'd be surprised if it happens.


Not in the current age....no....but you go back in tiime...and there are a few.....it's a cyclical.....Vick is just a different kind of QB. And he's winning. His brother looks like he's going to be pretty awesome....but it's early. Check out the Hokies when you get a chance.

[Garcia Bronco]

Easy.

Holmes was a great player on a bad team.

Vick is a bad QB on a Good team.

He's not a bad QB if he wins....see that's what matters....who gives a shit how good you are when you lose? No body..."Damn that kid is a machine in the pocket...but his team just can't win." I just don't follow the logic.....unless .....unless....you guys snob his type of ball. You're being.....armchair elitists. or something.


The only thing that matters is winning...and right now.....none of you can argue with the results.

[Brock]

I don't think Vick will ever be viewed as a great QB. Just a great athlete who happened to be a QB.

[Eleazar]

ROFL I knew this would work.

[Amnorix]

The refs also had a terrible call in the Atlanta/Pats game....They called Schaub out of bounds right before he dived for a crucial 1st down. Problem was, he wasnt even close to being out of bounds and the ref was right on top of the play. Of course the play couldnt be overturned because its ruled dead when a player steps out of bounds..horrible, horrible call.

The refs sucked all-around. Agreed that that was the worst call, but there were several other pretty bad ones, going both ways.

In balance, I'd say that the refs screw ups favored the Pats, but damn, that was just a pretty badly called game.

[milkman]

Not in the current age....no....but you go back in tiime...and there are a few.....it's a cyclical.....Vick is just a different kind of QB. And he's winning. His brother looks like he's going to be pretty awesome....but it's early. Check out the Hokies when you get a chance.

I'm trying to think of one QB that wasn't a pocket passer in the age of the pass that won a championship.

Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Title, Starr.

Obviously I can't remember every QB, but I simply can't think of a name of a run first QB that won.

[Amnorix]

Too bad they didn't show up today

Pats offense has been inconsistent so far this year, but our offense had the 4th most points last year. Give some credit to the Pats too...

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm trying to think of one QB that wasn't a pocket passer in the age of the pass that won a championship.

Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Title, Starr.

Obviously I can't remember every QB, but I simply can't think of a name of a run first QB that won.


I find it best just to say Jim Thorpe did it.ROFL

[Garcia Bronco]

Pats offense has been inconsistent so far this year, but our offense had the 4th most points last year. Give some credit to the Pats too...


Brady is a machine

[Amnorix]

Brady is a machine

Yeah, that guy is pretty good.

In '01, he really was just a guy who didn't make many mistakes and "got it done". Now he's frigging carrying the team.

No Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Rodney Harrison, Richard Seymour or Randall Gay today. That's 5/11 of the guys that we would hope to have on the field this year. :shake:

[Amnorix]

My view on Vick:

1. He's probably the best "athlete" in the NFL.

2. He's no where near the best quarterback.

3. His legs/skills make him supremely dangerous against a defense that isn't quite good. If the opposing defense isn't skilled and disciplined, he'll find a way to carve 'em up.

4. Against good defenses, his skills/legs won't get him, or the team, nearly so far.

5. He'll never win da big one until/unless he becomes a MUCH better pocket passer. Improvising will only get you so far against good teams.

6. The above doesn't even reference the fact that there is no way he'll ever survive 16 games playing hte way he currently plays.

[Deberg_1990]

My view on Vick:

1. He's probably the best "athlete" in the NFL.

2. He's no where near the best quarterback.

3. His legs/skills make him supremely dangerous against a defense that isn't quite good. If the opposing defense isn't skilled and disciplined, he'll find a way to carve 'em up.

4. Against good defenses, his skills/legs won't get him, or the team, nearly so far.

5. He'll never win da big one until/unless he becomes a MUCH better pocket passer. Improvising will only get you so far against good teams.

6. The above doesn't even reference the fact that there is no way he'll ever survive 16 games playing hte way he currently plays.

Very well said....exactly my feelings about the guy. He better start learning to become a better passer or he will become the Earl Campbell of QB's...retiring after about 8 years.

[milkman]

My view on Vick:

1. He's probably the best "athlete" in the NFL.

2. He's no where near the best quarterback.

3. His legs/skills make him supremely dangerous against a defense that isn't quite good. If the opposing defense isn't skilled and disciplined, he'll find a way to carve 'em up.

4. Against good defenses, his skills/legs won't get him, or the team, nearly so far.

5. He'll never win da big one until/unless he becomes a MUCH better pocket passer. Improvising will only get you so far against good teams.

6. The above doesn't even reference the fact that there is no way he'll ever survive 16 games playing hte way he currently plays.

Exactly what I've been trying to say, only much less effectively.

[Amnorix]

Very well said....exactly my feelings about the guy. He better start learning to become a better passer or he will become the Earl Campbell of QB's...retiring after about 8 years.

Agreed, except for the "being a Hall of Fame player" part. Vick isn't anywhere near having his ticket punched for Canton. At this rate, he's going to become known as the next Randall Cunningham, except faster/more elusive, but not so good in the pocket.

And just as "forgotten".

[Deberg_1990]

Agreed, except for the "being a Hall of Fame player" part. Vick isn't anywhere near having his ticket punched for Canton. At this rate, he's going to become known as the next Randall Cunningham, except faster/more elusive, but not so good in the pocket.

And just as "forgotten".

I thought Cunningham was a pretty good passer. He threw a great deep ball.

[Amnorix]

I thought Cunningham was a pretty good passer. He threw a great deep ball.

Yes he did. Accuracy was always his problem.

As I recall, early in his career he was kinda like Vick. Going to revolutionize the position, wildly hyped, etc. But he never really took his team too far.

Later in his career, he became much more of a threat in the pocket, and really started to "find his game". Then he was a true menace. IIRC, he's the one that led the Vikes to their 15-1 season under Denny Green. Didn't get them to the SB, but I seem to remember that something went wrong there (he got hurt, or their star RB did, or something???).

Anyway, I wasn't too focused on Cunningham's career, but from what I recall it does parallel's Vick's so far.

[Amnorix]

I looked up Randall's stats, cuz I was interested.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CunnRa00.htm

There were only 2 seasons he started at least half the games that year and had a 60% completion rate. His career completion rate was 56%.

207/134 TDs/Ints over his career, which is solid. But there were only 2 years where he had more than 24 TDs. He also obviously could not stay healthy after his first 6 years in the league.

Games started beginning in year 7 of his career: 1, 15, 4, 14, 7, 6, 16, 7, 6, 9. Yowza.

[Skip Towne]

I've only seen Vick play once (other than against us) and he reminded me of Warren Moon. How is he like/unlike Moon?

[Amnorix]

I've only seen Vick play once (other than against us) and he reminded me of Warren Moon. How is he like/unlike Moon?

Yeah, uhh...Moon definitely ain't the right guy to compare him to. First, Moon was healthy his first 10 years. Second, while Moon could run, he was nowhere near a Vick, either in terms of running ability or the quick abandonment of the designed play in favor of a run.

Compare: the year Moon ran the most, he ran 70 times for 268 yards. That was his high in both rush attempts and yards. In terms of rush attempts, he averaged about 40 per season through the first 11 years of his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MoonWa00.htm

Vick, meanwhile, is averaging about 115 rush attempts per season during the seasons he plays nearly the entire season. He had 120 rushes for over 900 yards per season, which completely blows away anything Moon did.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/VickMi00.htm

Moon was also generally more accurate.

[Deberg_1990]

Moon was a far more accomplished pocket passer than Vick will probably ever be.

[Amnorix]

Moon was a far more accomplished pocket passer than Vick will probably ever be.

Agreed. I should have flat out stated it, but didn't, losing the forest for the trees.

Seriously -- look at the stats for Moon, Vick and Cunningham. Vick and Cunningham are clearly cut from the same cloth. Moon is very different.

[milkman]

I've only seen Vick play once (other than against us) and he reminded me of Warren Moon. How is he like/unlike Moon?

Actually, Vick is just a more athletic Bobby Douglas.

[dtebbe]

I went to the game today, and Schaub had a great game. He can actually run too, he ran for 2 or 3 first downs. The Falcons got screwed by the refs today, some of the worst officiating I have seen in a long time. Schaub is a good backup, but I still think Vick gives you a better chance to win.

That being said, I don't think Vick would have fared better against the Pats, Schaub made some great touch-passes today that Vick just would not make. But, there were some times today that Vick would have been gone for 7 had the Pats played him the same way, so it's hard to say.

I can say this, the GA dome was loaded with arrogant chowder-heads today. Hopefully come Nov, we can whip thier ass at arrowhead. I'm so sick of Pats Pats Pats all damn day.

The best sign I saw today:

"PATRIOTS
WORLD CHUMPS"

DT