For all the retards complaining about Trent Green's "rag arm"

[Hammock Parties]

:rolleyes:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1892/passtracktdtokennison0551rw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JBucc]

it's not his rag arm, it's the rag o-line

[KcMizzou]

I wonder how they figure the "MLB equivalent".

[cdcox]

I wonder how they figure the "MLB equivalent".

physics

[JBucc]

phsycicsyep

[Deberg_1990]

Its not that he has a "Rag" arm...its that he cant throw a deep pass. He never has been able to to that since hes been in KC. Hes just not very accurate throwing deep down the sidelines. He always overthrows the WR . hes so bad at it, Saunders doesnt even call the play much anymore.....At least Saunders knows what his QB can and cant do.

[beer bacon]

I wish we would just start tanking games so we could get that BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICK. We are never going to be able to win with a mediocre QB like Trent. What has this guy ever done for us?

[Deberg_1990]

I wish we would just start tanking games so we could that BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICK. We are never going to be able to win with a mediocre QB like Trent. What has this guy ever done for us?


Im not sure if your being serious or not, but your somewhat right..hes never won a playoff game with anyone.

[tk13]

Im not sure if your being serious or not, but your somewhat right..hes never won a playoff game with anyone.
Yeah, and that was all on the offense. If Dick Vermeil could've built an offense worth a darn we would've beat those Colts. Our defense was perfect that day.

[Spicy McHaggis]

I wish we would just start tanking games so we could that BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICK. We are never going to be able to win with a mediocre QB like Trent. What has this guy ever done for us?

I hope you're kidding.

[Mecca]

Im not sure if your being serious or not, but your somewhat right..hes never won a playoff game with anyone.

That's just bacons schtick for the people who want to lose games if we aren't going to the playoffs.

Even though me personally if you aren't going to the playoffs, I don't see how going 8-8 helps you.

[cdcox]

Tanking the rest of our games would get us a draft choice in the 9-14 range. If you were serious.

[robot monster]

maybe it is the distance the ball travelled in the amount of time it was in the air.

Some of the most successful QB's ever have not had great deep ball arms. People like Ryan Leaf and Kerry Collins and Jeff George have though.

[Mecca]

Tanking the rest of our games would get us a draft choice in the 9-14 range. If you were serious.

So in all honesty would you rather pick 9, or win a few games finish 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs and pick in the 18 range?

[beer bacon]

maybe it is the distance the ball travelled in the amount of time it was in the air.

Some of the most successful QB's ever have not had great deep ball arms. People like Ryan Leaf and Kerry Collins and Jeff George have though.

I just did some calculations. If Trent would have been throwing a plantain instead of a football it would have traveled at 44 mph. Now that is arm strength!

[Extra Point]

I want Dilfer to back up Green next season. Collins or Huard can go. In two years, we draft Jamarcus Russell from LSU. Those two Trents can teach any QBOTF a boat load.

[cdcox]

So in all honesty would you rather pick 9, or win a few games finish 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs and pick in the 18 range?

I don't believe in purposefully tanking games because it develops a losing attitude that sticks with a team year after year after year. You always have to be getting better as an organization. Nothing succeeds like success.

[ZootedGranny]

I don't think Trent has a "rag arm" but as soon as that projection popped up on the screen, I called bullshit. Monday Night Favre threw and absolute laser during the game, and they said it was the equivalent of a 98 mph fastball...comparitively, Favre's pass looked MUCH faster.

So either I'm losing my eyesight, or ESPN's stat guys ****ed up.

[Rain Man]

I love that trajectory tracker. It's really effective in showing just how strong and accurate ANY pro quarterback is. Even their short passes are travelling quite a distance.

[Bob Dole]

physics

So <b>that's</b> what Miss Cleo is up to these days.

[robot monster]

Since this pass went 63 feet, that means for it to have been going 91mph the ball would have needed to arrive at the receiver in about half a second. It was a short pass but that sounds a little too quick. But, it's a comparable distance to a baseball pitch, which I think is about 58 feet?

Maybe they are compensating for the force required to be exerted on the thrown object. Certainly the same force in Newtons would throw a baseball and a football at different speeds due to the different natures of the two objects.

[Rain Man]

I suspect that they probably got some physics prof to give them a very simple formula for converting "football speed" to "baseball speed." Truthfully, I'll bet the formula is pretty complicated.

[Mecca]

I don't believe in purposefully tanking games because it develops a losing attitude that sticks with a team year after year after year. You always have to be getting better as an organization. Nothing succeeds like success.

I don't mean the team needs to go out there and tank games. I mean as a fan what would you prefer for the future of the team. I don't want the team to purposely tank games. But I understand how in the long run as a fan going 6-10 could be more beneficial than going 8-8.

[Deberg_1990]

I don't mean the team needs to go out there and tank games. I mean as a fan what would you prefer for the future of the team. I don't want the team to purposely tank games. But I understand how in the long run as a fan going 6-10 could be more beneficial than going 8-8.

IM with ya brother........It would be different if we were a franchise like the Pats who have been to the big dance oh say 5 times or so in the past 20 years. The sad fact is, we havent sniffed the big dance in 30+ years. It hasnt helped us much to be mediorce every year so why not try something different?? IM willing to suffer through some down seasons like 3 or 4 wins as long as we get some sure fire bluechippers. In 1988 and 1989 we got Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas, I would kill for some impact players like that again on offense or defense.

[plbrdude]

I suspect that they probably got some physics prof to give them a very simple formula for converting "football speed" to "baseball speed." Truthfully, I'll bet the formula is pretty complicated.
probly one of those formulas that takes 40 some years to solve :)

[Extra Point]

Certainly the same force in Newtons would throw a baseball and a football at different speeds due to the different natures of the two objects.

They have a football radar gun at the Nabisco factory?

NFW is a football thrown equivalent to a 91 mph fastball. They aren't factoring in the inertia. Then, again, I will never challenge Trent Green to a game of dodgeball.

[mikey23545]

I watched the Chiefs "tank" every year for almost the entire decade of the 1980's...Didn't notice them winning any Super Bowls because of it...

You have to be a complete football moron to actually think that having a crap record automatically equates to improvement...

[Pitt Gorilla]

It's usually not a bad idea to draft in the 10-20 range. Very good talent at cheaper cap tags. Just think if we could have drafted LJ or DJ higher!!! If only we'd had a pick high enough to get Freeney...

[Pants]

Since this pass went 63 feet, that means for it to have been going 91mph the ball would have needed to arrive at the receiver in about half a second. It was a short pass but that sounds a little too quick. But, it's a comparable distance to a baseball pitch, which I think is about 58 feet?

Maybe they are compensating for the force required to be exerted on the thrown object. Certainly the same force in Newtons would throw a baseball and a football at different speeds due to the different natures of the two objects.

Umm, look at the trajectory. It didn't go in a straight line.

[Logical]

:rolleyes:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1892/passtracktdtokennison0551rw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)First I don't think Trent has a rag arm but he has no real strength or accuracy when it comes to the long ball to the sidelines. He is fine over the middle and medium range and in. That being said that stupid ESPN MLB equivalent is totally bogus.

[listopencil]

So he threw a bunch of frisbees 21 yards? Big deal, I could do that. The trick was getting them all to go to the same place like that.

[Mecca]

It's usually not a bad idea to draft in the 10-20 range. Very good talent at cheaper cap tags. Just think if we could have drafted LJ or DJ higher!!! If only we'd had a pick high enough to get Freeney...


Sometimes you need a top 5 player. If you know what you're doing in the draft you should never ever blow a top 5 pick. Carl blew that Sims pick but that was the player DV and Robinson wanted so it's just as much their faults. Hopefully whoever the next coach is has a better eye for talent.

This year for example, there's a DE Mario Williams, he's Julius Peppers esq. Now that's a player a team like ours could really use but we'll never come close to touching him.

[Pants]

Are people really saying we need to lose out when we are, in fact, 6-4? You need to turn in your Chiefs fan-card, QFT and GTFO. Please.

[Mecca]

Are people really saying we need to lose out when we are, in fact, 6-4? You need to turn in your Chiefs fan-card, QFT and GTFO. Please.

No, it doesn't apply to this year because we have a playoff shot. But like last year when the team basically was out of playoff contention by Week 5, couldn't you justify wanting to have a bad record?

[Logical]

I don't believe in purposefully tanking games because it develops a losing attitude that sticks with a team year after year after year. You always have to be getting better as an organization. Nothing succeeds like success.
Based on this and the fact the Chiefs have not had success in 35 years we are
DOOMED !!!!!

[Deberg_1990]

If only we'd had a pick high enough to get Freeney...

Umm..we did, Sims was drafted before Sweeney...(sigh)...

[ck_IN]

Ok so he can throw it the equal of 91mph. That's relevant how exactly?

It doesn't matter if you can throw it through a wall if the ball is nowhere near it's target.

[Hammock Parties]

Ok so he can throw it the equal of 91mph. That's relevant how exactly?

It doesn't matter if you can throw it through a wall if the ball is nowhere near it's target.

Uh...we're talking about arm strength. Trent doesn't have a rag arm. Anyone that's not a moron knew that before this thread, but we're making sure everyone knows now.

[AirForceChief]

Ok so he can throw it the equal of 91mph. That's relevant how exactly?

It doesn't matter if you can throw it through a wall if the ball is nowhere near it's target.


That one was right on target, so what's your problem with Green?

[4th and Long]

Uh...we're talking about arm strength. Trent doesn't have a rag arm. Anyone that's not a moron knew that before this thread, but we're making sure everyone knows now.
Apparently some people can't understand the simple message relayed to them in a thread title, gc. Go figure.

[OldTownChief]

I wish we would just start tanking games so we could get that BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICK. We are never going to be able to win with a mediocre QB like Trent. What has this guy ever done for us?

I'm so sick of the "tanking games" BS.

[4th and Long]

I'm so sick of the "tanking games" BS.
Amen brother. :thumb: Tanking games is the equivelant of cheating in my book.

You want to root for a cheater? Fine. Get you lame ass off of this board and go over to the Mange and sign up.

[OldTownChief]

Amen brother. :thumb: Tanking games is the equivelant of cheating in my book.

You want to root for a cheater? Fine. Get you lame ass off of this board and go over to the Mange and sign up.

I can't find any reason for anyone who knows the Chiefs organization and Chiefs history to even consider this crap. Where is the pride? Play to win and let the chips fall where they may.

[4th and Long]

I can't find any reason for anyone who knows the Chiefs organization and Chiefs history to even consider this crap. Where is the pride? Play to win and let the chips fall where they may.
It's the same attitude that children and gamers have.

Children need to win. Sometimes they cheat each to do so.

"I saw you move your piece too many spaces!"
"Did not!"
"Did too!"
"DID NOT!!!"
"DID TOO!!!

Gamers want to win as well. They go to such lengths as to use cheat codes to get past difficult parts of a game.

It's all about instant gratification. They know nothing about enjoying the ride, even when the road has pot holes in it. They learn nothing from the shortcuts they take.

[Pants]

It's the same attitude that children and gamers have.

Children need to win. Sometimes they cheat each to do so.

"I saw you move your piece too many spaces!"
"Did not!"
"Did too!"
"DID NOT!!!"
"DID TOO!!!

Gamers want to win as well. They go to such lengths as to use cheat codes to get past difficult parts of a game.

It's all about instant gratification. They know nothing about enjoying the ride, even when the road has pot holes in it. They learn nothing from the shortcuts they take.

Exactly. Some people need to realize that the ride wasn't meant to be easy.

[NewChief]

The weirdest thing about this thread is that the screen cap looks eerily like a Madden screencap. When I first saw it, I thought GC had recreated the scenario from the game on Madden.

That being said, this MLB equivalent BS has to be some of the stupidest crap I've ever seen.

[Hammock Parties]

the screen cap looks eerily like a Madden screencap.

this has to be some of the stupidest crap I've ever seen.

[beer bacon]

I'm so sick of the "tanking games" BS.

Well you see, in order to win the SB you need BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICKS. What we need to do is tank the rest of this season, and then go 0-16 next year. That way we get two BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICKS, and by 2007 we will be SB bound!!

[Pitt Gorilla]

Umm..we did, Sims was drafted before Sweeney...(sigh)...That was the point, genious (he wasn't a high draft pick).

[Logical]

Exactly. Some people need to realize that the ride wasn't meant to be easy.Well Lamar is definitely succeeding in making it horrifyingly difficult. 35 years since we smelled the Super Bowl is not even close to easy.

[TRR]

I remember hearing how weak of arm Trent Green has, and I believed it. However, when I watched him in the QB Challenge a couple of seasons ago, he out-distanced many QB's in the long bomb portion of the competition. When he gets a chance to step into it, and let it go, his arm is plenty strong enough.

[Deberg_1990]

Well Lamar is definitely succeeding in making it horrifyingly difficult. 35 years since we smelled the Super Bowl is not even close to easy.

Exactly.....just how rough a ride and how much longer does the ride have to last??? Im tired of being the Chicago Cubs of the NFL.

[Deberg_1990]

I remember hearing how weak of arm Trent Green has, and I believed it. However, when I watched him in the QB Challenge a couple of seasons ago, he out-distanced many QB's in the long bomb portion of the competition. When he gets a chance to step into it, and let it go, his arm is plenty strong enough.

I agree....like i mentioned in an earlier post, hes just NOT accurate throwing the deep out down the sidelines at all. He does however throw really good down the middle of the field which is where about 95% of his longer throws usually go.

[patteeu]

Its not that he has a "Rag" arm...its that he cant throw a deep pass. He never has been able to to that since hes been in KC. Hes just not very accurate throwing deep down the sidelines. He always overthrows the WR . hes so bad at it, Saunders doesnt even call the play much anymore.....At least Saunders knows what his QB can and cant do.

I agree with this except that he doesn't always overthrow his receivers. He sometimes underthrows them significantly. The deep pass just isn't his strong suit

[OldTownChief]

Well you see, in order to win the SB you need BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICKS. What we need to do is tank the rest of this season, and then go 0-16 next year. That way we get two BLUE CHIP DRAFT PICKS, and by 2007 we will be SB bound!!

You really can't be this ****ing stupid. Can you?

[OldTownChief]

Well Lamar is definitely succeeding in making it horrifyingly difficult. 35 years since we smelled the Super Bowl is not even close to easy.

Are you for intentionally loseing games Vlad?

[Logical]

Are you for intentionally loseing games Vlad?
Not this year, I wanted them to lose games last year after about the 7th loss, course then they started winning. That of course is not the same thing as throwing games. I would never favor that.

[OldTownChief]

Not this year, I wanted them to lose games last year after about the 7th loss, course then they started winning. That of course is not the same thing as throwing games. I would never favor that.

I didn't think so. Fans hoping for losses after the season is lost is different from the team "tanking games". If I ever thought that the team was intentionaly throwing games no matter the record or the benifit of the draft, I would be done with them for sure.

[tk13]

I wonder if Trent would have better numbers along the sidelines if we had better WR's. Trent's QB rating when throwing to each sideline is below 70. He's got a 109.5 rating down the middle of the field though.

He's actually 8-12 with a 109.7 rating on passes thrown 20-30 yards. Pretty good actually. If you want your "I never would've guessed" stat of the week, Trent Green is 10-23 passing beyond 20 yards. Peyton Manning is 10-34 passing beyond 20 yards. Although Manning has 6 TD/3 INT in that range. Trent's just got 0 TD/1 INT. Kinda shows how we can't throw downfield as much though...

[OldTownChief]

Peyton Manning is 10-34 passing beyond 20 yards. Although Manning has 6 TD/3 INT in that range.

Surprising stat. Especially with his wide outs and their ability for the run after catch.

[philfree]

I wonder if Trent would have better numbers along the sidelines if we had better WR's. Trent's QB rating when throwing to each sideline is below 70. He's got a 109.5 rating down the middle of the field though.

He's actually 8-12 with a 109.7 rating on passes thrown 20-30 yards. Pretty good actually. If you want your "I never would've guessed" stat of the week, Trent Green is 10-23 passing beyond 20 yards. Peyton Manning is 10-34 passing beyond 20 yards. Although Manning has 6 TD/3 INT in that range. Trent's just got 0 TD/1 INT. Kinda shows how we can't throw downfield as much though...

Being able to throw down field is dependant on pass blocking and the amount of time the QB has to set up and throw. That does make it more interesting in regards to Mannings numbers throwing the ball down field. From what I've seen the Colts O line has been playing better than ours so one would think that Manning would have better numbers over 20 yards then Green.

PhilFree:arrow:

[BigMeatballDave]

We are never going to be able to win with a mediocre QB like Trent. What has this guy ever done for us?Some teams win with QBs that are not as good as Green. 2 words, Trent Dilfer...

[beer bacon]

Some teams win with QBs that are not as good as Green. 2 words, Trent Dilfer...

This brings up another important point. What has Green ever done for our defense? NOTHING. Sure he has led one of the greatest offenses of this century, but he can't field a defense worth a shit. Way to go Trent!! Tom Brady would never allow our defense to be so horrible :cuss:

[Hammock Parties]

I hope everyone appreciates beer bacon's sarcasm. ROFL

[OldTownChief]

This brings up another important point. What has Green ever done for our defense? NOTHING. Sure he has led one of the greatest offenses of this century, but he can't field a defense worth a shit. Way to go Trent!! Tom Brady would never allow our defense to be so horrible :cuss:

You had me going there for a minute bacon.

Rep

[cdcox]

Sometimes you need a top 5 player. If you know what you're doing in the draft you should never ever blow a top 5 pick. Carl blew that Sims pick but that was the player DV and Robinson wanted so it's just as much their faults. Hopefully whoever the next coach is has a better eye for talent.

This year for example, there's a DE Mario Williams, he's Julius Peppers esq. Now that's a player a team like ours could really use but we'll never come close to touching him.

Yeah, top 5 picks are gold, baby!

2004
1. San Diego Chargers Eli Manning, QB - Mississippi
2. Oakland Raiders Robert Gallery, OT - Iowa
3. Arizona Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald, WR - Pitt
4. New York Giants Phillip Rivers, QB - NC State
5. Washington Redskins Sean Taylor, S - Miami (Fl.)

2003

1 Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB USC
2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami (Fla.)
4 NY Jets Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky
5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State

2002
1. Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2. Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3. Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4. Buffalo Mike Williams OT Texas
5. San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas

[Bowser]

I might be wrong, but I would bet that the Lions would take Andre Johnson over Charles Rogers right about now.

[cdcox]

Based on this and the fact the Chiefs have not had success in 35 years we are
DOOMED !!!!!

Yeah, the Chiefs prove my point, don't they? Suck long enough, and it becomes a hard habit to break. We sucked in the regular season from '73 - '90. Then sucked in the post season from '91- '97. Now we've been consistently mediocre from '98 - '05.

A nice fat losing streak is just what this franchise needs. NOT.

[arrowhead20]

the formula for converting speeds thrown would have to include: actual football throw speed, the weight of the football(15 oz), the distance thrown. compared to all of the above with a baseball. my wife has a bachelors in math, and she found that it takes less than half a second to throw a 5 oz baseball 60ft 6in @ 91 mph.
so, we figured that the statistitians clocked green's pass w/ radar and calculated it that way. we couldnt break down the equation as far as to figure the actual pass speed w/ the 15oz football, but we guesstimaed his throw time to be about 1.37 sec from green's hand to kennisons chest.
hope this helps everyones curiosity.

[Chieftain58]

Physics? Is that some type of cereal?

[OldTownChief]

the formula for converting speeds thrown would have to include: actual football throw speed, the weight of the football(15 oz), the distance thrown. compared to all of the above with a baseball. my wife has a bachelors in math, and she found that it takes less than half a second to throw a 5 oz baseball 60ft 6in @ 91 mph.
so, we figured that the statistitians clocked green's pass w/ radar and calculated it that way. we couldnt break down the equation as far as to figure the actual pass speed w/ the 15oz football, but we guesstimaed his throw time to be about 1.37 sec from green's hand to kennisons chest.
hope this helps everyones curiosity.


After all that you guesstimated? Hell I coulda done that,

[patteeu]

the formula for converting speeds thrown would have to include: actual football throw speed, the weight of the football(15 oz), the distance thrown. compared to all of the above with a baseball. my wife has a bachelors in math, and she found that it takes less than half a second to throw a 5 oz baseball 60ft 6in @ 91 mph.
so, we figured that the statistitians clocked green's pass w/ radar and calculated it that way. we couldnt break down the equation as far as to figure the actual pass speed w/ the 15oz football, but we guesstimaed his throw time to be about 1.37 sec from green's hand to kennisons chest.
hope this helps everyones curiosity.

Just FTR, the weight of the baseball doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes for the baseball to go 60ft 6in @ 91mph. You may already realize this, but I can't tell whether or not that's the case.

[robot monster]

Just FTR, the weight of the baseball doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes for the baseball to go 60ft 6in @ 91mph. You may already realize this, but I can't tell whether or not that's the case.

Well, no, but it has something to do with the force required to accelerate it to 91 mph

[cdcox]

In addition to the mass, you'd have to consider that the drag on the football will be much larger than the drag on a baseball.

The other thing about this equivalent stuff is that it ignores mechanics. I don't thing Green could just step up and throw a 91 mph fastball because he hasn't learned the mechanics of pitching.

[Thig Lyfe]

That was pretty nifty. I'm interested as to HOW they use physics to find the MLB equivalent.

[chiefsfolife]

I better never personally see a chiefs fan on gameday rooting against us man

[patteeu]

Well, no, but it has something to do with the force required to accelerate it to 91 mph

Agreed, but from the sounds of some of these posts, "force required" isn't being recognized as the key to coming up with an NFL equivalent.

[Sure-Oz]

I wonder if Trent would have better numbers along the sidelines if we had better WR's. Trent's QB rating when throwing to each sideline is below 70. He's got a 109.5 rating down the middle of the field though.

He's actually 8-12 with a 109.7 rating on passes thrown 20-30 yards. Pretty good actually. If you want your "I never would've guessed" stat of the week, Trent Green is 10-23 passing beyond 20 yards. Peyton Manning is 10-34 passing beyond 20 yards. Although Manning has 6 TD/3 INT in that range. Trent's just got 0 TD/1 INT. Kinda shows how we can't throw downfield as much though...
his #'s would be incredible if he had the combo warner had. atleast give us 1 #1 threat. we have a #2 wr playing #1.

[DRU]

nice little collection of Trent's inability to go deep...

http://angelleye.homedns.org:20008