I wanted Al Saunders as next coach

[FringeNC]

Contrary to the bashers on here, his performance speaks for itself...however, I do not want Saunders if he Carl bargains with him, and forces him to keep Gunther.

Gunther has to go, which he surely would if we hired from the outside.

[NaptownChief]

How could you not want Al Saunders...Seem like a brilliant man and the passing offense seems to just keep getting better and better the longer he is here.

[FringeNC]

How could you not want Al Saunders...Seem like a brilliant man and the passing offense seems to just keep getting better and better the longer he is here.

Yeah, that's why Trent Green has passed for more yards over the past 4 years than anyone except 1 or 2 QBs. You may hate Saunders, but you have no objective evidence to conclude that he has not done a great job as OC.

The problem with this team is very simple. Gunther is a complete moron, and Carl doesn't know shit about defensive (or offensive for that matter) talent. You give this offense any other GM and DC in the league, and you'd see playoff wins.

[stevieray]

Al sent me a Christmas card, with prints of my paintings autographed.

He is a very smart man. I will not be disappointed if he gets the gig.

[NaptownChief]

Yeah, that's why Trent Green has passed for more yards over the past 4 years than anyone except 1 or 2 QBs. You may hate Saunders, but you have no objective evidence to conclude that he has not done a great job as OC.

The problem with this team is very simple. Gunther is a complete moron, and Carl doesn't know shit about defensive (or offensive for that matter) talent. You give this offense any other GM and DC in the league, and you'd see playoff wins.


A good cordinator doesn't mean squat about being a leader which is required as a HC. But the fact that the passing game has gotten worse year after year despite not having to change QB's also speaks volumes to his lack of creativity and ability to adjust. His bag of tricks was good as an OC for a while but appears to be running out of steam...My guess it will look like the Texans offense as soon as Roaf and Shields retire and he doesn't have the best O line in the league anymore. A lot of OC's would look great behind a great Oline.

[NaptownChief]

Al sent me a Christmas card, with prints of my paintings autographed.

He is a very smart man. I will not be disappointed if he gets the gig.


Sounds like KCJohnny and his care package from Gun all over again. :D

[shaneo69]

A lot of OC's would look great behind a great Oline.

And QB's.

[shaneo69]

The problem with this team is very simple. Gunther is a complete moron, and Carl doesn't know shit about defensive (or offensive for that matter) talent. You give this offense any other GM and DC in the league, and you'd see playoff wins.

Anybody that thinks Saunders is a genius and Gunther is the problem is a complete moron.

[stevieray]

Sounds like KCJohnny and his care package from Gun all over again. :D

Not at all. I gave them to him at camp. Got Trent, Tony and Priest signatures,. he just kept his word and got er done.

Sorry if I like the guy for producing one of the best offenses in NFL history without WR's.

I don't expect you or others to have any loyalty, it's not in your make up.

[Coach]

Sounds like KCJohnny and his care package from Gun all over again. :D

ROFL

As for Saunders, I'm sure he's a great guy and all. However, I don't think Kansas City will have a good defense until Vermeil is gone. If we promote Saunders, I would bet the defense doesn't get any better. I think there is a link to the offense and just the general focus of the head coach. Saunders is another fast-tempo, offense oriented coordinator/coach. As good as some parts of the defense have been, it takes a complete defense to win on the road - even with an offense that we're used to in KC. As good as the offense has been, it takes a great team to make a legitimate playoff run. It just seems like the Chiefs offense is still light years ahead of the Chiefs defense. They don't complement each other.

[Coach]

Not at all. I gave them to him at camp. Got Trent, Tony and Priest signatures,. he just kept his word and got er done.

Sorry if I like the guy for producing one of the best offenses in NFL history without WR's.

I don't expect you or others to have any loyalty, it's not in your make up.

I don't blame you for liking the guy for producing the best offenses in the NFL, w/o even a legimate #1 WR. Hell, I like the guy for bringing in an hell of a offense.

However, the old saying have always been true, regardless of what people want to say. "Defense Win Championships."

Edited: Of course, there's that discussion of 95, and 97, but that's another thread/day to discuss I suppose.

[stevieray]

ROFL



You don't have a clue.

[Coach]

You don't have a clue.

Sorry, but I'm confused on what you mean here.

[stevieray]

However, the old saying have always been true, regardless of what people want to say. "Defense Win Championships."

Didn't work for us.

[shaneo69]

You don't have a clue.

You are truly holier than thou, SuperFan.

[NaptownChief]

Not at all. I gave them to him at camp. Got Trent, Tony and Priest signatures,. he just kept his word and got er done.

Sorry if I like the guy for producing one of the best offenses in NFL history without WR's.

I don't expect you or others to have any loyalty, it's not in your make up.


I was just kidding you....


However to the loyalty point, even the most loyal of dogs starts to cower eventually unless his owner has beaten him brain dead.

[FringeNC]

Anybody that thinks Saunders is a genius and Gunther is the problem is a complete moron.

I don't see how a rational person could come to any other conclusion. It's self-evident.

[chiefsfaninNC]

He is a great offensive coordinator. His numbers over the years show that. I just don't like OC's becoming head coaches. To do their job OC's need to remain cool and calm and detached from the heat of the game. A head coach needs to get into the thick of it and motivate players and chew their ass when the need arises. I don't see Al being able to do this. He should stick to what he is good at.

[stevieray]

You are truly holier than thou, SuperFan.



I asked him to do me a favor, it's that simple.

[JBucc]

I want Al to stay at OC and get a good defensive minded head coach and a new DC.

[Coach]

Didn't work for us.

On the contrary, I would disagree to a point. In 95, we hold the Colts to 10 points. In 97, we held the Broncos to 14 points. That's good enough to win a football game if you hold your opponent to less than 14 points.

We just didn't have the offense, coaching, kicker, qb at the time. Now I may say that "Defense Win Championships" as in defense alone. That's not necessarly true. If I lead people to think of that way, then I apologize. I agree the fact that all 3 phases of the game has to work together (O, D, and ST) in order to be the Super Bowl Champs.

But I'm just saying, when it comes to the Championship game, very rarely you seen a shoot-out in a Super Bowl, minus the Bucs destroying the Raiders.

[shaneo69]

I was just kidding you....


However to the loyalty point, even the most loyal of dogs starts to cower eventually unless his owner has beaten him brain dead.

I guess if I was given free autographs from all the superstar players, I'd be brain dead with loyalty as well.

[shaneo69]

I don't see how a rational person could come to any other conclusion. It's self-evident.

All you have to do is go back to the Buffalo game when we were missing our LT, and you'll see what a real genius Saunders is. No ability to adapt whatsoever.

[stevieray]

I was just kidding you....


However to the loyalty point, even the most loyal of dogs starts to cower eventually unless his owner has beaten him brain dead.

it must be real convienant to turn a eye an to what he has done, only giving credence to what he hasn't done.

Fans have become nothing more that talk show hosts, looking for nothing but dirt. Mainly because it's so easy to do, and carries no risk.

[thebrad84]

My guess it will look like the Texans offense as soon as Roaf and Shields retire and he doesn't have the best O line in the league anymore. A lot of OC's would look great behind a great Oline.

And QB's.

Agreed and Agreed.

A big part of this offense's success has been the dominate play of our O-line. You take that out of the equation and Trent isn't as good, Priest isn't as good, etc. Of course, you can say that about almost any good offense in the league...Anyways...I think we are all in for a rude awakening once Roaf and Shield's retire. With our subpar defense, and the fact that we will most likely have a new HC next year, I'm afraid we are going to have atleast a 2-3 year rebuilding phase. Knowing that is what makes this seasons waste very depressing to think about..IMO. :(

[stevieray]

On the contrary, I would disagree to a point. .

Really , where is the championship the defense won?

[shaneo69]

Really , where is the championship the defense won?

It resides in Baltimore (2000) and Chicago (1985).

[stevieray]

I guess if I was given free autographs from all the superstar players, I'd be brain dead with loyalty as well.

Ya, that's the ticket.

[Coach]

It resides in Baltimore (2000) and Chicago (1985).

Also Tampa Bay in 2003. Granted, it was the Raiders, but the Bucs made 5 INT's during that game.

[stevieray]

Also Tampa Bay in 2003. Granted, it was the Raiders, but the Bucs made 5 INT's during that game.

I thought you were talking about the Chiefs?

[Deberg_1990]

There is just something fundementally wrong with this team on both sides of the ball. Both the offense and defense make crucial mistakes at critical times in the game. The defense constantly gives up huge 3rd down conversions on 3rd and long. Ive never seen a team be so consistantly bad on giving up 3rd downs for 4 straight years!

On the offensive side, the WR's either drop the ball, fumble or cant get open on critical 3rd downs as well. I dont get it, other than this team is soft and a direct reflection of Dick Vermeil. There seems to never be any repercussions or accountability for bad play, unless you are a punter.

[NaptownChief]

it must be real convienant to turn a eye an to what he has done, only giving credence to what he hasn't done.

Fans have become nothing more that talk show hosts, looking for nothing but dirt. Mainly because it's so easy to do, and carries no risk.


He has done a fine job as the OC...I'm not implying he hasn't but the moment our OLine went from great to average without Roaf the offense wasn't much...Which leads me to believe that the offensive accomplishments are far more related to a great O line then anything Saunders has done. I may be wrong and I may be right. Just my honest opinion. The fact nobody has given him a shot as a HC since his Charger days as HC also leads me to believe there are many that question his ability to do so as the NFL good ole boy network is pretty tight.

If I am changing coaches I want a proven top notch HC as opposed to another high risk gamble like Gunther. What is so wrong with that?

[luv]

There is just something fundementally wrong with this team on both sides of the ball. Both the offense and defense make crucial mistakes at critical times in the game. The defense constantly gives up huge 3rd down conversions on 3rd and long. Ive never seen a team be so consistantly bad on giving up 3rd downs for 4 straight years!

On the offensive side, the WR's either drop the ball, fumble or cant get open on critical 3rd downs as well. I dont get it, other than this team is soft and a direct reflection of Dick Vermeil. There seems to never be any repercussions or accountability for bad play, unless you are a punter.
Can you say something good about the team you're a fan of? Just once? I would love to see that.

[Coach]

I thought you were talking about the Chiefs?

I am. I'm just generally saying that we had the Defense back then. We just didn't have the offense nor the coaching (Marty's playcalling, The QB who can't throw it and catch it at the same time, and that place kicker.)

If we had this offense, and if there was ever a time-machine to bring back the 95 and 97 defense, we wouldn't even have this discussion, in my opinion.

I'd love to see a Chiefs championship sometime in my life, don't get me wrong. But, the way things have been for the past 10 years, I'm wondering if my grandchildren will ever see it. Ouch, I feel like a Cub fan all of a sudden.

[Hammock Parties]

But the fact that the passing game has gotten worse year after year despite not having to change QB's also speaks volumes to his lack of creativity and ability to adjust. .

You need to shut the **** up.

Passing yards:

2001 - 3,783
2002 - 3,690
2003 - 4,039
2004 - 4,591
2005 - 3,463

YES we have dropped off this year. Why? WILLIE ROAF.

[Deberg_1990]

Can you say something good about the team you're a fan of? Just once? I would love to see that.

Sure, Carl finally drafted a "Franchise" Running back after only 14 years. LJ is the real deal in spite of his blocking. Kawika Mitchell and Tynes have both turned around this year. DV and Saunders built one of the best O-Lines in the league. At least Carl has tried to build a respectable defense the past 4 years, he hasnt ignored it. Hes tried everything, he just sucks at it. 4 picks doomed this franchise: Sims, Freeman, Siavii, Wilson.

[luv]

Sure, Carl finally drafted a "Franchise" Running back after only 14 years. LJ is the real deal in spite of his blocking. Kawika Mitchell and Tynes have both turned around this year. DV and Saunders built one of the best O-Lines in the league. At least Carl has tried to build a respectable defense the past 4 years, he hasnt ignored it. Hes tried everything, he just sucks at it. 4 picks doomed this franchise: Sims, Freeman, Siavii, Wilson.
You did so good up to this point, but I'll accept that as a positive post. Thank you.

Carry on.

[Hammock Parties]

Anyway, this debate has been going on for too long in multiple threads.

Saunders failed to get LJ on the field. I don't want a poor judge of talent as our head coach.

[FringeNC]

Anyway, this debate has been going on for too long in multiple threads.

Saunders failed to get LJ on the field. I don't want a poor judge of talent as our head coach.

Well, my point was that unless Al is given the green light to clean house on the D side of the ball, as good as he is on offense, I'm not sure it's worth it. We HAVE to get rid of Gunther.

[Hammock Parties]

Well, my point was that unless Al is given the green light to clean house on the D side of the ball, as good as he is on offense, I'm not sure it's worth it. We HAVE to get rid of Gunther.

You can be sure Al would hold on to his bestest buddy Gunther. That's one more reason why he shouldn't be the head coach.

[NaptownChief]

You need to shut the **** up.

Passing yards:

2001 - 3,783
2002 - 3,690
2003 - 4,039
2004 - 4,591
2005 - 3,463

YES we have dropped off this year. Why? WILLIE ROAF.



So if Wille Roaf is the reason we are tailing off greatly then my point is proven that the great oline is the reason for our success and not the OC.

As for this comment: "You need to shut the **** up."

You shouldn't speak to people in a manner that would have them making you squeal like the little leg humping rainbow type that you are. You should speak to people with a little more respect. It will allow you to live a better life with a mouthful of teeth. You do have one big factor in your favor in that kicking your ass would unfortunately qualify as a hate crime.

[Hammock Parties]

So if Wille Roaf is the reason we are tailing off greatly then my point is proven that the great oline is the reason for our success and not the OC.


You were wrong. Why can't you admit it? The passing offense didn't decline every year.

[NaptownChief]

You were wrong. Why can't you admit it? The passing offense didn't decline every year.


I was wrong in my choice of words....My implication was that it has gone downhill and is as bad now as it has been in this Vermeil/Saunders run. When it should be at it's best since you have the same QB in the same system. Anyone who is out from under their rock knows every year after the original "trINT" season was better than the first.

[stevieray]

[QUOTE=Coach]I am. I'm just generally saying that we had the Defense back then. [/QUOTE/]

And that defense didn't win a Championship.

[FringeNC]

I was wrong in my choice of words....My implication was that it has gone downhill and is as bad now as it has been in this Vermeil/Saunders run. When it should be at it's best since you have the same QB in the same system. Anyone who is out from under their rock knows every year after the original "trINT" season was better than the first.

The Chiefs still have one of the better passing offenses in the league. Trent is always in the top 5 in yards per attempt, which is the key number in judging a passing offense. His rating isn't as high as other guys (although it is pretty high) because we run the ball in the red zone more than most teams.

I mean every single NFL team has down passing games...what about the previous 3 games prior to this one? Why are you basing your "theory" on such a small sample of games (a few). Our passing game struggles at times, but who doesn't? Additionally, this offensive line is specialized for run-blocking, not pass-blocking, so if we don't keep the other team off balance, we will get pressure on Green...but it seems a worthwhile trade-off. Our offense set a ****ing NFL record for 1st downs last year.

[NaptownChief]

I mean every single NFL team has down passing games...what about the previous 3 games prior to this one? Why are you basing your "theory" on such a small sample of games (a few). Our passing game struggles at times, but who doesn't? Additionally, this offensive line is specialized for run-blocking, not pass-blocking, so if we don't keep the other team off balance, we will get pressure on Green...but it seems a worthwhile trade-off. Our offense set a ****ing NFL record for 1st downs last year.

I'm basing it more on feel than stats....In previous years when we really needed key conversions and plays we were always a real threat to make them. This year when we are in "must pass" situations and the defense knows it we seem to be very, very ineffective. Previous years it seemed that it didn't matter of the defense knew we were going to pass or not. Could be wrong but this year it feels like the only time we are very successful in the passing game is when we surprise them in what looks to be running situations.

[RealSNR]

GRob had a mediocre defense and turned it into a shitty defense. Gunther took shitty defense and turned it into a mediocre defense. How can one say Gunther is what's wrong with this team? :shake:

[JBucc]

GRob had a mediocre defense and turned it into a shitty defense. Gunther took shitty defense and turned it into a mediocre defense. How can one say Gunther is what's wrong with this team? :shake:
no we're still pretty shitty

[FringeNC]

GRob had a mediocre defense and turned it into a shitty defense. Gunther took shitty defense and turned it into a mediocre defense. How can one say Gunther is what's wrong with this team? :shake:

You have got to be kidding. Greg Robinson's 2003 D was #26. Gun took over, and it collapsed to #31 with FEWER TOs...and about the same this year...

It's clear that Gun is WORSE than Robinson. I can't believe the number of Goonther apologists on here...

[Iowanian]

I want them ALL gone....Groundskeepers, Scouts up to CP.

[Hammock Parties]

I want them ALL gone....Groundskeepers, Scouts up to CP.

But the groundskeepers do such a great job of painting the dirt every week!!!!!