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Deberg_1990
12-18-2005, 08:40 PM
Its nice to see Gretz being honest for once:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/12/18/gretz_embarrassment/

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – In 14 seasons now, the Chiefs have not been able to go on the road and beat a team bound for the playoffs in the month of December.

They had another chance here at Giants Stadium. They failed. They failed miserably.

And, it wasn’t so much that they failed, because anyone that has followed this franchise would not have been surprised that they came out on the wrong end of this score.

It was the way they lost. Quite frankly, it may have been the most embarrassing loss this franchise has suffered in those 14 years.

With so much on the line, with their dreams of the post-season still in their control and with a bruised and battered opponent missing five starters because of injury, the stars were aligned for the Chiefs to have a big night in the Meadowlands.

Instead, they landed face first in a major embarrassment that revealed that these players and their head coach and coaching staff are not on the same page. There’s no way that’s possible, given the performance we saw against New York. If Dick Vermeil was pondering retirement, Saturday night’s game could only push him more in that direction.

It is never so easy to point a single finger of blame for any loss. This one would be no exception, because this defeat had many fathers. Most of them were members of the Chiefs defense. After taking a step backward last week against Dallas, the defense took a giant leap backwards against the Giants, all the way back to the end of the 2003 season, when they produced a miserable performance against the Vikings in Minnesota.

This time, like that game, the tackling of the Chiefs defense was atrocious. Worst example: On Tiki Barber’s 41-yard touchdown run in the first half, at least five Chiefs had a real shot at tackling the Giants running back. S Sammy Knight had two chances. LB Kendrell Bell could have thrown himself at Barber at one point, but decided otherwise.

Second worst example: on Amani Toomer’s 31-yard touchdown in the fourth quarter, LB Kawika Mitchell missed the initial tackle. Knight and Bell would miss again.

Barber ended up running for 220 yards, a new franchise record for the Giants, breaking the old mark that was set 55 years ago. He finished with 249 of the 406 yards gained by the Giants. They did this without their starting left tackle and right tackle. Their starting left guard was moved to right tackle. His replacement at left guard is a guy who hasn’t played in over two years because of injury. It did not matter, as the Chiefs had just one sack.

Eli Manning was awful at quarterback and that forced the Giants to rely more on Barber. He was the best running back the Chiefs have faced this year and quite frankly, it put to rest the idea that the run defense was vastly improved. They just had not seen enough of the league’s best backs.

But in those improved previous performances, the Chiefs had never had the tackling problems they had in this game. Barber did not run wild and free because of assignment mistakes. The defense had people in the right places; they simply could not get the job done physically.

There were plenty of other mistakes, the types that leads to questioning about how well the team was prepared, how serious they took this game, or maybe how well they handle the pressure of playoff-type football. The answer is not very well.

The Chiefs had five false starts penalties on offense, with nine penalties in all for 75 yards. They had six flags accepted against them in the first half.

WR Samie Parker caught a 24-yard pass, but couldn’t hold onto the ball and fumbled it away, with the Giants recovering. Parker earlier had caught a 17-yard pass in the first quarter and then decided after he was tackled to throw the ball at one of the Giants defenders. The 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct call pretty much wiped out his gain. Parker’s little attitude act on the field has grown old and Saturday night, he hurt his team.

After the game, Vermeil said he didn’t recognize the team wearing the Chiefs uniform. He called his performance, that of his coaching staff and of his players “horsebleep.”

It was most definitely that, and much more. It was utter embarrassment.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Hammock Parties
12-18-2005, 08:48 PM
The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

ROFL

sedated
12-18-2005, 08:50 PM
every word of it true.

such a disappointment :shake:

ping2000
12-18-2005, 08:53 PM
At first I thought this was a column about Jack Harry.

Skip Towne
12-18-2005, 09:00 PM
If it had been a decent QB, we'd have lost by 30 and Tiki wouldn't have needed to make us look foolish.

kcxiv
12-18-2005, 09:00 PM
Gretz is totally correct. Chiefs just had no desire, determination, heart. Thats whats really bad about the whole thing. All the talent in the world does you no good if you dont have the desire. Chiefs showed that. No desire to play in Jan.

siberian khatru
12-18-2005, 09:03 PM
There were plenty of other mistakes, the types that leads to questioning about how well the team was prepared, how serious they took this game, or maybe how well they handle the pressure of playoff-type football. The answer is not very well.

:clap:

wolfpack0735
12-18-2005, 09:07 PM
this all boils down to lamar hunt. after 30 something years of not going to a super bowl and pretty much not even going to the playoffs the blame should fall on the owner. how many coaches has queen carl and stedman(or how ever you spell it) had? how long has queen carl been around without true results? it shows that in the end that as long as the hunts get richer who cares about a super bowl.

ping2000
12-18-2005, 09:08 PM
this all boils down to lamar hunt. after 30 something years of not going to a super bowl and pretty much not even going to the playoffs the blame should fall on the owner. how many coaches has queen carl and stedman(or how ever you spell it) had? how long has queen carl been around without true results? it shows that in the end that as long as the hunts get richer who cares about a super bowl.

Carl gives Lamar EXACTLY what he wants. Butts in seats. Winning is secondary to Lamar.

Coogs
12-18-2005, 09:09 PM
Gretz is totally correct. Chiefs just had no desire, determination, heart. Thats whats really bad about the whole thing. All the talent in the world does you no good if you dont have the desire. Chiefs showed that. No desire to play in Jan.

Exactly!

That is the way I saw it too! No desire, no determination, no heart! IMO, that means we quit! Same thing they did on Gun his last game as HC for the Chiefs.

steelyeyed57
12-18-2005, 09:09 PM
Gretz is totally correct. Chiefs just had no desire, determination, heart. Thats whats really bad about the whole thing. All the talent in the world does you no good if you dont have the desire. Chiefs showed that. No desire to play in Jan.

I would agree with that with the exception of a few players. Trent Green plays (as always) with heart and determination. It really sucks because you can see how bad he wants it, and I'm sure he knows his time is running short. Also, our o-line is so dominate, and executes so well its sad to see all of that ability wasted with the lack of effort from our other skill players on offense, and our entire defense.

wolfpack0735
12-18-2005, 09:45 PM
I would agree with that with the exception of a few players. Trent Green plays (as always) with heart and determination. It really sucks because you can see how bad he wants it, and I'm sure he knows his time is running short. Also, our o-line is so dominate, and executes so well its sad to see all of that ability wasted with the lack of effort from our other skill players on offense, and our entire defense.
i`ll give the offense big time credit. the last years the defense has kept them from going anywhere and you never heard them bitching about how bad the "d" was.they seemed to always say the "o" could do better. the average person probably would have been doing some major bitching about how shi$$y the defense is and they kept us from going to the playoffs.

chris
12-18-2005, 09:48 PM
Carl gives Lamar EXACTLY what he wants. Butts in seats. Winning is secondary to Lamar.

Wow! You know Lamar?

When did he personally tell you this???

JBucc
12-18-2005, 10:00 PM
horsebleep
pretty much sums our season up right there

Halfcan
12-18-2005, 10:11 PM
Over the last five years-Trent has been one of the best QB's in the NFL. I sure would like to see him be a true leader and grab that Puzzy Parker by the face mask and unload for costing his team dearly on two drives. Marino or Favre would rip him a new one. TG needs to be more of a complete leader-false start penalties-this time of year??

thebrad84
12-18-2005, 10:27 PM
Over the last five years-Trent has been one of the best QB's in the NFL. I sure would like to see him be a true leader and grab that Puzzy Parker by the face mask and unload for costing his team dearly on two drives. Marino or Favre would rip him a new one. TG needs to be more of a complete leader-false start penalties-this time of year??

I, unfortunately, didn't get to see the unsportsmanlike penalty on sammie parker, because i had to work yesterday during the whole game...but, if it wasn't a questionable call, and sammie really was trying to throw the ball at the defender, it's not Trent Green obligation to say anything to him. That is Dick Vermeils. It is his team, that's what he gets paid to do..control the players and tell them what to do, along with help from coordinators and assts. I can assure you, if I were head coach and a player did that kind of $hit during the game..i would send his a$$ to the locker room and tell him to go to the hotel. That kind of $hit is INEXCUSABLE. There is not one excuse you could tell me, as a head coach, that would make me say something like that is alright. It is pure selfishness by the player and it costs the team. I've seen Wesley do that kind of crap before too. There is no reason for it, period. And it is the head coach's responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen, NOT Trent Green's.

philfree
12-18-2005, 10:32 PM
I, unfortunately, didn't get to see the unsportsmanlike penalty on sammie parker, because i had to work yesterday during the whole game...but, if it wasn't a questionable call, and sammie really was trying to throw the ball at the defender, it's not Trent Green obligation to say anything to him. That is Dick Vermeils. It is his team, that's what he gets paid to do..control the players and tell them what to do, along with help from coordinators and assts. I can assure you, if I were head coach and a player did that kind of $hit during the game..i would send his a$$ to the locker room and tell him to go to the hotel. That kind of $hit is INEXCUSABLE. There is not one excuse you could tell me, as a head coach, that would make me say something like that is alright. It is pure selfishness by the player and it costs the team. I've seen Wesley do that kind of crap before too. There is no reason for it, period. And it is the head coach's responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen, NOT Trent Green's.

It was a ticky tack call.

PhilFree:arrow:

thebrad84
12-18-2005, 10:40 PM
It was a ticky tack call.

PhilFree:arrow:

Even so, the point is, that $hit isn't needed PERIOD. There should be no reason for an official to think someone intentionally threw a ball at the other team just to taunt. The same goes for the Pat Surtain shove after Derrick Johnson did an absolutely beautiful job blowing up the screen. Was it a ticky tack call? Sure. But the point is, after the whistle blows, it isn't needed. That sort of crap just isn't needed. Those kinds of things absolutely kill your team. Just look at the goddamn Raiders for crying out loud. They are always getting those kinds of calls against them and they sure do lose a bunch of games. I personally think its a direct reflection of the coaches. A good coach, who had control of his team, wouldn't allow that kind of crap to take place. Just my opinion though.

kcxiv
12-18-2005, 11:29 PM
The call on Parker i could kinda see, he did kinda fling the ball at the player. It hit the DB in the leg. Parker should just quit it with that tough guy BS and get back to the huddle. He hasnt done shit to show he is a bad ass. Just catch t he ball n get back to the damn huddle.

Defense still had no desire. I dont know what it is really. Seen the same thing with GR and now with Gun. I guess it has to fall onto DV. Oh well, our season is pretty much done anyways.

CosmicPal
12-19-2005, 12:02 AM
Gretz is totally correct. Chiefs just had no desire, determination, heart. Thats whats really bad about the whole thing. All the talent in the world does you no good if you dont have the desire. Chiefs showed that. No desire to play in Jan.

Not only that- I think the team EXPECTED to win this game. I think they honestly thought that all they had to do was show up and then go home with a lazy win three hours later- And that the football gods would see to it that Denver loses in Buffalo, that SD would lose to the only undefeated team in the NFL, and that Pittsburgh would lose in Minnesota.

Instead of prepping for the game, I bet they were all sitting around playing cards, singing barbershop tunes, telling polish jokes, and giving McCleon a wedgie. All the while Vermiel was discussing the configuration of his new wine cellar with a contractor.

They came out with a renewed sense of purpose with the first series in the second half, but whatever that purpose was- was ultimately killed by a total defensive lack of effort. Nobody even bothered to wrap up the ball carriers or receivers- Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they were all *****ing stoned!

mcan
12-19-2005, 12:16 AM
What you guys aren't seeing is the fact that we got at least 3 unsportsmanlike 15 yard penalties. I'm not trying to make excuses for arm tackling, but when you see guys get flagged for hitting a player who is wrapped up (but not down) TWICE, you tend to NOT gang tackle. That's why in the second half, Barber was able to escape from several tackles.

Especially his long runs down the sidelines. People COULD have leveled him while he was being held up, but decided not to, probably from fear of giving up 15 yards in a crucial game...


The point is, the refs took our heart away early in this game. We played like panzies because we got flagged every time we were aggressive...

kcfanXIII
12-19-2005, 12:55 AM
What you guys aren't seeing is the fact that we got at least 3 unsportsmanlike 15 yard penalties. I'm not trying to make excuses for arm tackling, but when you see guys get flagged for hitting a player who is wrapped up (but not down) TWICE, you tend to NOT gang tackle. That's why in the second half, Barber was able to escape from several tackles.

Especially his long runs down the sidelines. People COULD have leveled him while he was being held up, but decided not to, probably from fear of giving up 15 yards in a crucial game...


The point is, the refs took our heart away early in this game. We played like panzies because we got flagged every time we were aggressive...
flagged, or burnt. the blitz is easy to beat when the corners give the wr 10 yard cushions.

Johnson&Johnson
12-19-2005, 01:52 AM
As bad as it was. greg wesley deserved some praise on saving that 55 yd scamper Tiki made from the 1 yd line? Can you imagine him putting close to 300 yds on us had Tiki broke that tackle from Wesley. YIKES!

I understand what Trevor Pryce was indicating back in week 3 that the Chiefs defense is so soft!

Pants
12-19-2005, 01:54 AM
What you guys aren't seeing is the fact that we got at least 3 unsportsmanlike 15 yard penalties. I'm not trying to make excuses for arm tackling, but when you see guys get flagged for hitting a player who is wrapped up (but not down) TWICE, you tend to NOT gang tackle. That's why in the second half, Barber was able to escape from several tackles.

Especially his long runs down the sidelines. People COULD have leveled him while he was being held up, but decided not to, probably from fear of giving up 15 yards in a crucial game...


The point is, the refs took our heart away early in this game. We played like panzies because we got flagged every time we were aggressive...

Holy shit, maybe I just need some sort of an excuse to cling to, but that actually makes sense. Nice.

donkhater
12-19-2005, 06:37 AM
Embarrassing? I don't know if I'd use that word. Extremely disappointing is how I would characterize KC this past weekend.

I've only been embarassed as a Chief fan once and that was after the Monday Night Meltdown. I seriously considered rooting for another team after that I was so disgusted.

If KC was truly a threat to win the Super Bowl, then one might consider this weekend embarrassing, but considering recent history, it should be considered predictable.

Bob Dole
12-19-2005, 06:43 AM
What you guys aren't seeing is the fact that we got at least 3 unsportsmanlike 15 yard penalties. I'm not trying to make excuses for arm tackling, but when you see guys get flagged for hitting a player who is wrapped up (but not down) TWICE, you tend to NOT gang tackle. That's why in the second half, Barber was able to escape from several tackles.

A couple of us made that same observation in the game thread as it was happening.

It doesn't make it any less infuriating, though. Unfortunately, the only consistent quality this team has is the ability to disappoint.

Inspector
12-19-2005, 06:52 AM
They are just not a playoff caliber team.

Many have suspected that and now it's been proven.

Oh well, maybe next year, err, uh maybe sometime during this next decade?

jidar
12-19-2005, 06:56 AM
Carl gives Lamar EXACTLY what he wants. Butts in seats. Winning is secondary to Lamar.


That's such a dumbassed thing to say. It would be a lot easier to put butts in the seat if he won, so of course he wants to win. I suppose there is the question of which he wants more, to win or to fill the stadium, but seeing as how they go hand-in-hand you can't say which he would rather have.

C-Mac
12-19-2005, 07:50 AM
They are just not a playoff caliber team.

Many have suspected that and now it's been proven.

Oh well, maybe next year, err, uh maybe sometime during this next decade?

I feel its a playoff caliber team...they just dont play like one.

phxchief
12-19-2005, 07:54 AM
Disappointing, but the key point is - unsurprising. And that's what's REALLY disappointing above everything else. That no one is remotely surprised we laid an egg like this.

HMc
12-19-2005, 08:01 AM
That's such a dumbassed thing to say. It would be a lot easier to put butts in the seat if he won, so of course he wants to win. I suppose there is the question of which he wants more, to win or to fill the stadium, but seeing as how they go hand-in-hand you can't say which he would rather have.

Consistent 9-7 seasons will fill the stadium constantly. A few 4-12 seasons and a superbowl challenge may not.

Chief Henry
12-19-2005, 08:09 AM
Hell, I'm surprised Gretz wrote an article calling out the Chiefs.

TO say that tis was the most embarrising loss in the last 14 is questionable to me. My pick to the most embarrising loss would have to be at new Orleans last season.

They're all fricken embarrising. The club house should be emblodding in 3...2...1

ChiTown
12-19-2005, 08:51 AM
I feel its a playoff caliber team...they just dont play like one.

ROFL at your Avatar. That's fantastic.

Fire Me Boy!
12-19-2005, 08:55 AM
Defense still had no desire. I dont know what it is really. Seen the same thing with GR and now with Gun. I guess it has to fall onto DV. Oh well, our season is pretty much done anyways.
I think a good part of it is a lack of accountability. I like DV, and while I don't necessarily want him to leave, I don't particularly want him to stay. However, the problem with the defense (and coaches to an extent) is a lack of accountability. They all know they're "DV's guys"... which in short, means they're not going to lose their starting positions due to poor play. I think we can all agree one of DV's major drawbacks is his undying loyalty... to a fault. It's his loyalty to Dexter McCleon when others show they're better. It's his unwillingness to give LJ more touches because Blaylock knows the system better, or Priest has been doing it longer. It's Eric Hicks still being a starter. It's Jason Verduzco still having a job after multiple run-ins with the law.

It all goes back to no one being afraid for his job. Plain and simple. Competition breeds better play, IMO.

RedThat
12-19-2005, 09:56 AM
Hell, I'm surprised Gretz wrote an article calling out the Chiefs.

TO say that tis was the most embarrising loss in the last 14 is questionable to me. My pick to the most embarrising loss would have to be at new Orleans last season.

They're all fricken embarrising. The club house should be emblodding in 3...2...1

Buffalo has to be the most embarrassing loss for this team. You just simply have to beat 4-10 teams on the road if you want to make the playoffs.

It's just that, not only did we lose there, we lost pretty good too. It's a shame! Every team that makes the playoffs, good teams go into Ralph Wilson stadium and win. The Donks did it, the Patriots did it, the Panthers did it, yet we, the Chiefs can't do it?
:shake:

The more I think about that game, the more pissed I get about this team, and realize that they just blow opportunities they should capitalized on. IF we dont make the playoffs this year, I'll just say we deserve not to because of losing to an underachieving team on the road.

BigRedChief
12-19-2005, 09:59 AM
Carl gives Lamar EXACTLY what he wants. Butts in seats. Winning is secondary to Lamar.

I've been a leader of the lynch mob for King Carl's head for a long time because of poor drafts in the first and second rounds and the free agent selections to add to our team but......this year isn't his fault. He tryed to put this team in position to win this off season. I blame this season on DV and his coaches.

Now after 13 years of zero playoff wins and going into his 4th coach during that era who are you going to blame for this "let's be average" mentality? Has to be King Carl.

RedThat
12-19-2005, 10:10 AM
I've been a leader of the lynch mob for King Carl's head for a long time because of poor drafts in the first and second rounds and the free agent selections to add to our team but......this year isn't his fault. He tryed to put this team in position to win this off season. I blame this season on DV and his coaches.

Now after 13 years of zero playoff wins and going into his 4th coach during that era who are you going to blame for this "let's be average" mentality? Has to be King Carl.

I blame this season squarely on the shoulders of Gunther Cunningham. No excuses, I dont wish to here he needs at least another year to rebuild this defense. He had plently of time to do so, first year was an excuse because he had no players. This year we went out and got him the players he wanted, and he still couldn't get the job done. The way he coaches, is questionable. I question his playcalling ability, his ability to create matchup is atrocious, and just the fact that it seems like he works to our players weaknesses rather than strengths.

Everybody all loved Gunther for his no nonsense, hard-nosed personality, and the fact he put together good defenses in the past. But, his coaching stinks. Outweighs all that. Very overated as a defensive co-ordinator, just not smart at all.

I can't blame the offense, they we're coming on and came through. The defense messed up in the end, they failed to make plays and stop teams when we needed them most.

*"Hey Gunther, I thought this defense was so close to being a championship defense?" Guess not eh?
:shake:

TEX
12-19-2005, 03:25 PM
Buffalo has to be the most embarrassing loss for this team. You just simply have to beat 4-10 teams on the road if you want to make the playoffs.

It's just that, not only did we lose there, we lost pretty good too. It's a shame! Every team that makes the playoffs, good teams go into Ralph Wilson stadium and win. The Donks did it, the Patriots did it, the Panthers did it, yet we, the Chiefs can't do it?
:shake:

The more I think about that game, the more pissed I get about this team, and realize that they just blow opportunities they should capitalized on. IF we dont make the playoffs this year, I'll just say we deserve not to because of losing to an underachieving team on the road.


Very well put. After the Buffalo game I realized that the Chiefs were NOT a playoff team. So, I just sat back and watched the season unfold and I'm not at all surprised at how it's turning out. I'm not that upset at all these days, because I saw and accepted the Chiefs for what they are after the Buffalo loss, and that is a very average football team that is no closer to winning it all in D.V. - year - 5 than they were in D.V. - year - 2. It is time for change once again. Such is life as a CHIEF FAN.

Coogs
12-19-2005, 03:32 PM
I blame this season squarely on the shoulders of Gunther Cunningham. No excuses, I dont wish to here he needs at least another year to rebuild this defense. He had plently of time to do so, first year was an excuse because he had no players. This year we went out and got him the players he wanted, and he still couldn't get the job done. The way he coaches, is questionable. I question his playcalling ability, his ability to create matchup is atrocious, and just the fact that it seems like he works to our players weaknesses rather than strengths.

Everybody all loved Gunther for his no nonsense, hard-nosed personality, and the fact he put together good defenses in the past. But, his coaching stinks. Outweighs all that. Very overated as a defensive co-ordinator, just not smart at all.

I can't blame the offense, they we're coming on and came through. The defense messed up in the end, they failed to make plays and stop teams when we needed them most.

*"Hey Gunther, I thought this defense was so close to being a championship defense?" Guess not eh?
:shake:

Right now the defense is ranked #28 in total defense and 31st spot is definately in within reach, and 30th in yards per play allowed. IIRC, the Bears have moved from near the bottom of the NFL to the #1 spot in this same two year stretch.

BigRedChief
12-19-2005, 03:37 PM
Gretz is such a King Carl tool it makes we wonder why he would put an article on the web that disses the Chiefs? Welllll come to think of it he disses the coaches not the Chiefs front office. Setting up King Carl's defense of this period already?:hmmm:

TEX
12-19-2005, 03:41 PM
Right now the defense is ranked #28 in total defense and 31st is definately in within reach, and 30th in yards per play allowed. IIRC, the Bears have moved from near the bottom of the NFL to the #1 spot in this same two year stretch.

Oh we're bad to be sure and I feel that we should have improved more on _efense over the past 2 years, but I would bet that if we got to play the Lions, Packers, and Vikings twice this year - not to mention the Browns, Ravens, Saints, and 49'ers - that our defensive numbers would be much better, along with our record. IMO, the Bears are improved but not to the extent that their record indicates. I would not at all be surprised if they fall hard next season, just like they did a few years ago. IMO, their substantial improvement is a direct result of thier easy schedule.

tk13
12-19-2005, 03:44 PM
Gretz is such a King Carl tool it makes we wonder why he would put an article on the web that disses the Chiefs? Welllll come to think of it he disses the coaches not the Chiefs front office. Setting up King Carl's defense of this period already?:hmmm:
You think Carl's going to take any blame for this? Yeah right, he's sitting up on high and will be able to dispose of all the coaches and put the blame on them. Not that the coaching staff should be without blame but Carl can put 100% of it on them, despite the fact that DV's been a winner everywhere he's been except here, and the only constant through the last decade is Carl....

siberian khatru
12-19-2005, 03:53 PM
and the only constant through the last decade is Carl....

So blindingly obvious, yet he keeps skating along.

Except, if in his mind and the Hunts', they truly believe he's been successful because the Chiefs have always hovered around 9-7 and never had that crash-and-burn, 4-12 kind of season that would mark him as a loser. The postseason issue is moot -- why, that's just bad luck, darn it -- but hey, we're almost always "competitive"!