Do you want Gunther retained as defensive coordinator?

[Hammock Parties]

I have seen both opinions on this issue lately. Myself and a few others have thrown Gunther from the train.

What say you?

[petegz28]

Yep keep him. Get him some defensive linemen and I think we will be just fine. And keep Warfield out of jail.

[Brock]

They all need to go.

[Sully]

I say let him stay. He's been here 2 years, and it has gotten better. Not much, but a little. I say give him a little more time to get his system in place before we give up on him. If we fire guys after a couple of season, it will just be system after system after system.

[carlos3652]

not sure why... always undecided...

[Rain Man]

We've had a top-notch defense in the past with him running the D. I think we can do it again.

Of if not, at least we'll die blitzing. That's better than the French defense that Robinson was putting up, and Kurt S. before him.

[Hammock Parties]

Of if not, at least we'll die blitzing. That's better than the French defense that Robinson was putting up, and Kurt S. before him.

Gunther's scheme is closer to Robinson's than many here would like to admit.

[mike_b_284]

Huge improvement since he took over, plus you have to love his passion

:cuss: 4321

ROFL

[Abba-Dabba]

Huge improvement since he took over, plus you have to love his passion

:cuss: 4321

ROFL

Improvement? Where?

Run defense? Ha! What has it gotten them? Let me answer for you. Abolutely nothing.

[Hammock Parties]

Huge improvement since he took over, plus you have to love his passion


2003 - 29th
2004 - 31st
2005 - 28th

Massive improvement.

[Skip Towne]

We've had a top-notch defense in the past with him running the D. I think we can do it again.

Of if not, at least we'll die blitzing. That's better than the French defense that Robinson was putting up, and Kurt S. before him.
He was running the D but Marty was here to show him what to do. Marty left and so did the D. Can Gunther.

[FringeNC]

I thought Greg Robinson's D was the worst I had ever seen....until Gun returned.

If Gun returns in any capacity other than Carl's secretary, I'm through with the Chiefs.

[FringeNC]

2003 - 29th
2004 - 31st
2005 - 28th

Massive improvement.

And when you look at turnovers, and points allowed per game, Gun is significantly worse than Greg Robinson. And then throw in the talent upgrades this last year, personally chosen by Gun, and the comparison becomes almost unfair to Gun.

[Frazod]

No. Every coach who has anything to do with the Brokeback Mountain Defense needs to be shitcanned IMMEDIATELY.

[Logical]

An emphatic NO.

[Brock]

I thought Greg Robinson's D was the worst I had ever seen....until Gun returned.

If Gun returns in any capacity other than Carl's secretary, I'm through with the Chiefs.

You may want to go ahead and pick your new team, because I don't believe Gunther will be leaving.

[Eleazar]

I like gun personally, I think that given more time he could get things into shape, but it's probably time to clean out the whole staff. If we're going for a fresh start then let's not do it halfway.

In his defense I don't see how he has the talent. We don't really have any kind of a pass rush outside of one player and it all starts there. Combine that with shaky play in the secondary and special teams coverage being bad and giving opponents better than average field position and he's got a tough row to hoe.

[chiefsfaninNC]

I was wrong. Gunther needs to go.

[FringeNC]

You may want to go ahead and pick your new team, because I don't believe Gunther will be leaving.

There is no way a new coach is going to retain Gun. Five minutes in the film room will be all it will take...

[Brock]

There is no way a new coach is going to retain Gun. Five minutes in the film room will be all it will take...

I don't believe for a second that the new coach, whoever it may be, will be given free reign. Especially if that new coach is Herman Edwards.

[Coach]

I prefer the way Vince McMahon on WWE does it.

"YOOOOOOUUUUURRRRR FIREDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!"

So what are the odds of Gunther finding out that he'll be fired over the internet again?

[tyton75]

In all fairness to Gun.. he was/is hamstrung because he isn't allowed to hire his own coachs.. or at least have any say over it whatsoever... Vermeil didn't really want Robinson to leave, so Robinson made it easy for him and resigned... now Gun is still stuck with the same chitty position coaches

thats just the way I see it

[Rain Man]

Gunther's scheme is closer to Robinson's than many here would like to admit.


Take that back! Take it back right now!

[Hammock Parties]

So what are the odds of Gunther finding out that he'll be fired over the internet again?

His contract is up. He doesn't have to be fired.

[Hammock Parties]

Take that back! Take it back right now!

The prosecution presents Exhibit A:

Eric Hicks dropping into coverage -

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1990/badd7hf.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[HemiEd]

NO, he is in over his head IMO.

[Coach]

His contract is up. He doesn't have to be fired.

Ah, thank you for correcting me.

Then it's just simple. Don't resign him at all.

[Rain Man]

The prosecution presents Exhibit A:

Eric Hicks dropping into coverage -

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1990/badd7hf.gif (http://imageshack.us)


Yeah, but that doesn't count. It's Eric Hicks, so it doesn't matter whether he rushes or not.

[CoMoChief]

I dont see why Gunther needs to go. He has made this defense respectable against the run. We just need a few more playmaker DL or CBs. This defense will be better next season. You can't just change the face of an entire lousy defense with a switch of a button. I think he needs to stay. Get him his crew to work with.

[Barrymore50]

Dick Vermeil should retire, Gunther should be made head coach, Al Saunders should be made defensive coordinator, Priest Holmes should be made offensive coordinator, and Carl Peterson should be made to stand outside in his boxers and watch a Peter Jackson's King Kong director's cut.

[Coach]

Yeah, but that doesn't count. It's Eric Hicks, so it doesn't matter whether he rushes or not.

Jared Allen does it as well. I seen him drop into coverage several times during the course of the season.

[Hammock Parties]

I dont see why Gunther needs to go. He has made this defense respectable against the run. We just need a few more playmaker DL or CBs. This defense will be better next season. You can't just change the face of an entire lousy defense with a switch of a button. I think he needs to stay. Get him his crew to work with.

WE'RE RANKED TWENTY-****ING-EIGHTH!!!!!!!!

I would have been on Gunther's bandwagon if we had finished in the top 20 on D. Is that too much to ask?

[HemiEd]

I am shocked by the results of your Poll so far, but I do like Gun's glasses.

[FringeNC]

WE'RE RANKED TWENTY-****ING-EIGHTH!!!!!!!!

I would have been on Gunther's bandwagon if we had finished in the top 20 on D. Is that too much to ask?

If we were in the top 20 in D, we'd be headed for the playoffs, if not the #2 seed.

[brent102fire]

Yep keep him. Get him some defensive linemen and I think we will be just fine. And keep Warfield out of jail.

Yes, I think the absence of a legitimate pass rush really hurts the D, especially the secondary. No one can cover a receiver or TE for 8-10 seconds like the Chiefs secondary and LB's have had to do. Get a few good D linemen and we will see this D finally come together. :thumb:

[Johnson&Johnson]

NO. HELL ... 2 years of him in the late 90's was enough. Another two more years... this is way too much for my stomach to take.

Here's why he doesn't get it. We got Surtain because we wanted corners that can play man and bump. But Pat has been playing off the WR almost 90% of the time. Warfield has been capable of playing man and bump as well but Gun does not use our corners well. He does not utilize our speed at LB. All this great talk about DJ's pure athletic ability and speed goes to waste with Gun's schemes.

The thing about Gun that bugs me MOST - old-school stubborn ego centered coaching. He devises game plans and scheme that he believes in instead of coming out with schemes to be used the talent in our players.

[Hammock Parties]

I am shocked by the results of your Poll so far, but I do like Gun's glasses.

I'm not shocked, more like disappointed.

[PastorMikH]

If DV is coming back next year the answer is yes, I want to retain Gun.

If DV retires, I want a complete sweep of coaches and let the new HC pick his own Assistants.

[old_geezer]

No. Clean house and start over with a new head coach and staff. Does anyone seriously think this train wreck is going to get better next year?.

[Hammock Parties]

I can't believe this poll.

For those of you in Gunther's camp, why does he deserve to return? What has he accomplished?

[PastorMikH]

I can't believe this poll.

For those of you in Gunther's camp, why does he deserve to return? What has he accomplished?



About as much as Al, and for some reason a lot of fans want him as next HC.

[Hammock Parties]

About as much as Al, and for some reason a lot of fans want him as next HC.

I think Al has accomplished much more. His offense leads the league year after year.

[PastorMikH]

I think Al has accomplished much more. His offense leads the league year after year.



How much of that is Al and how much of it is DV though? DV had a lot to do with this O.

[Hammock Parties]

How much of that is Al and how much of it is DV though? DV had a lot to do with this O.

I don't really care. Al doesn't deserve to be fired.

[DTLB58]

As I said when he was HC, If he could will a win we would go 16-0. He has the passion but that's about it.

[kcfanXIII]

Yes, I think the absence of a legitimate pass rush really hurts the D, especially the secondary. No one can cover a receiver or TE for 8-10 seconds like the Chiefs secondary and LB's have had to do. Get a few good D linemen and we will see this D finally come together. :thumb:
it hasn't been the abscence of a pass rush. any smart qb in the nfl would have his wr running posts, ins and outs, our cb take away a deep threat, but by lining up with no less than a 7 yard cushion, at times its as much as 12 yds, we allow any qb with decent accuracy pick us apart. i hear it all about how the d backs can't cover for 8 seconds, well the dline can't make it to the qb in 3 seconds either. man up, and play some bump and run!!! :mad: :cuss: :banghead: :#

[Tribal Warfare]

Wow a split voting poll.

I voted no, because Gun was given the talent he wanted but KC ended up with the same mirror results of last season. :# :cuss:

[theWaltMon]

Get a new head coach (preferrably a Tony Dungy or John Gruden type) with a new attitude and give Gunther one more year. See if it works. I remember Gunther's defense in the 90s.

[PastorMikH]

As for Gun, I do find it odd that 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of people saying that they wanted a new HC but wanted Gun to stay. One bad game, actually one bad half, and everyone wants him canned.

[tk13]

How much of that is Al and how much of it is DV though? DV had a lot to do with this O.
It's a combination of both I think... DV tries to surround himself with good people, DV knew Al was a good offensive mind. Everywhere Al has gone they've had success offensively. Ever since he's come here we've been the best offense in the league... he was an assistant for the best two years the Rams had really... he was part of the high flying Chargers in the 80's, and before that he was an offensive coordinator for Cal when they set a bunch of records. People really should go read his resume... the more I read it the more I think we should give him a shot. I really want to get a coordinator who has had a lot of success, and we sit here and throw out all these names from other teams and we all forget we've got one of the best coordinators in the league on our own team.

[Brock]

It's a combination of both I think... DV tries to surround himself with good people, DV knew Al was a good offensive mind. Everywhere Al has gone they've had success offensively. Ever since he's come here we've been the best offense in the league... he was an assistant for the best two years the Rams had really... he was part of the high flying Chargers in the 80's, and before that he was an offensive coordinator for Cal when they set a bunch of records. People really should go read his resume... the more I read it the more I think we should give him a shot. I really want to get a coordinator who has had a lot of success, and we sit here and throw out all these names from other teams and we all forget we've got one of the best coordinators in the league on our own team.

I wonder why Peterson hasn't given him any kind of endorsement. I know Vermeil's master plan is to have Saunders take over, but Carl probably has plans of his own.

[Skip Towne]

Teams don't run on us because it is not necessary. With our CB's playing 10 yds off the WR's why not just take the 8 easy yards? Offenses take what the D's give them. And Gun was only good while Marty was here. And everybody in the NFL knows it. I mean EVERYBODY. Nobody else would hire him as a DC. Even Marty wouldn't re-hire him.

[Chiefnj]

You let the head coach pick his assistants. See ya Gun.

[tk13]

I wonder why Peterson hasn't given him any kind of endorsement. I know Vermeil's master plan is to have Saunders take over, but Carl probably has plans of his own.
I have zero confidence that Carl will even consider Saunders. None. He should at least be in the running, if somebody else is better than so be it, but Al should be considered, and he won't be. Then we can watch him go elsewhere and probably become a successful head coach. If he did, I would go beserk.

[milkman]

I dont see why Gunther needs to go. He has made this defense respectable against the run. We just need a few more playmaker DL or CBs. This defense will be better next season. You can't just change the face of an entire lousy defense with a switch of a button. I think he needs to stay. Get him his crew to work with.

Gun gave Carl a shopping list, which included Bell and Surtain.

He didn't include a DL, because he thought that we had the talent here already.

And that is a big part of Gun's problem.

He is a bad talent evaluator.

Hell, he even missed on Bell, because he thought he could be an impact player at a position that Bell isn't suited to play.

I agree with Skip.
Marty was more responsible for the Chiefs defensive success in the 90s than Gun.

Hell the defense played pretty damn well with Dave Freakin' Adolf as DC.

[Skip Towne]

Gun gave Carl a shopping list, which included Bell and Surtain.

He didn't include a DL, because he thought that we had the talent here already.

And that is a big part of Gun's problem.

He is a bad talent evaluator.

Hell, he even missed on Bell, because he thought he could be an impact player at a position that Bell isn't suited to play.

I agree with Skip.
Marty was more responsible for the Chiefs defensive success in the 90s than Gun.

Hell the defense played pretty damn well with Dave Freakin' Adolf as DC.
Thank you Mr. Winder. Defensive success just follows Marty around. He shut the Colts out in the first half yesterday AT Indy. If it weren't for Brees brain farts he might have totally shut them out. Maybe we should look for a coach like that. A great defensive coach that has done it over and over at different places. Does Gregg Williams fit that description? I don't know, I haven't followed his career. If not, how about a college coach that fits that profile. :shrug:

[Hammock Parties]

As for Gun, I do find it odd that 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of people saying that they wanted a new HC but wanted Gun to stay. One bad game, actually one bad half, and everyone wants him canned.

I was in Gunther's camp before the Denver game.

We were ranked 23rd and appeared to be improving week by week.

Then Denver scorched us, and the last two weeks were just plain awful.

The "improvement" was a mirage brought about by playing weak competition.

[ChiefsLV]

Chiefs need some defensive line help if this defense is going to get any better. Have you seen the Bears this year? They rush four guys and get to the QB or at the very least collapse the pocket and get serious pressure on the QB. Even Jared Allen has been a liability on the line with his failure to stay home to stop the reverse and counter plays. Not saying Jared Allen needs to go, but he needs to improve in those areas. As for the rest of the defensive line, they just suck period and are all expendable IMO. I think with a couple of good defensive linemen Gunther's defense would be pretty good. They could use a good cover safey to replace Wesley and a decent LB to replace Bell since he obviously has lost something.

[Hammock Parties]

And that is a big part of Gun's problem.

He is a bad talent evaluator.


No kidding. Remember Dishrag, Lew Bush and all the shitty RBs when he was head coach?

[milkman]

Thank you Mr. Winder. Defensive success just follows Marty around. He shut the Colts out in the first half yesterday AT Indy. If it weren't for Brees brain farts he might have totally shut them out. Maybe we should look for a coach like that. A great defensive coach that has done it over and over at different places. Does Gregg Williams fit that description? I don't know, I haven't followed his career. If not, how about a college coach that fits that profile. :shrug:

He has a pretty impressive defensive resume.

http://www.redskins.com/team/cprofile.jsp?id=47

Some question his ability to be a HC, and he earned that doubt in Buffalo.

But it is also possible that he gained something from that experience, and won't repeat the same mistakes, and that he's also learned something from Joe Gibbs.

[milkman]

No kidding. Remember Dishrag, Lew Bush and all the shitty RBs when he was head coach?

Hell, he thought that Bartee was CB material.

[FringeNC]

If Vermeil returns which is unlikely, but not certain (according to Chris Mortensen), would Gun return? I can't believe Vermeil would come back if Gun stuck around. Why bother? If Vermeil sticks around, I'd have to think Gunther is gone.

[Skip Towne]

He has a pretty impressive defensive resume.

http://www.redskins.com/team/cprofile.jsp?id=47

Some question his ability to be a HC, and he earned that doubt in Buffalo.

But it is also possible that he gained something from that experience, and won't repeat the same mistakes, and that he's also learned something from Joe Gibbs.
Damn, after reading that, I want that dude. But I'll have to ask Tommykat what she thinks. Seriously, I would be in favor of giving him a shot. But Dammit Carl probably has a list of guys I've never heard of that are also impressive. I know I'm a lot better at my job now than I was when I first started. I still learn things from time to time.

[Mecca]

Anyone who thinks Gun should stay because he doesn't have enough talent is simply not viewing this correctly. First of all he got all the players he asked for and we're no better on defense. Secondly, there are teams in this league playing good defense with no more talent than we have, the Washington Redskins come to mind. Thirdly, for anyone who talks about how good Gun was the first time he was here. He had elite players all over the damn field. When you have to 2 elite corners, 2 elite pass rushers than toss in a Mark Collins and a Donnie Edwards it's not taking a great coordinator to make that good.

What makes a great coordinator is making average to below average talent play well together. It's obvious Gunther can not do this. He needs pro bowl players all over the field to have a successful D. That means he's not a great coordinator just a coach who lives on having the best players.

For the guy who said Gun has done as much as Al Saunders, you're dilluted. If Gunther Cunningham was half the coach Al Saunders is we wouldn't be having these problems we're having. Al Saunders has a top offense all while not having hardly any threat's at all at the WR position. If you look at our offense talent wise we aren't a top 5 talented offense. But we're a top 3 offense in production, that's good coaching on Al Saunders part. So now you tell me how the hell has Gun done more than him?

The Gunther love on this board sickens me sometimes. The guy is a goof and not a good coordinator. If some of you had your way, we'd run the best players/coaches off the team and keep the shitty ones.

[HemiEd]

I'm not shocked, more like disappointed.


I guess I am both shocked and disappointed, but it is starting to even out. I would sure like to see him put back up stairs these last two games.

[Abba-Dabba]

The results so far in this poll are downright scary. 31-30 in favor of retaining Gun.

[HemiEd]

The results so far in this poll are downright scary. 31-30 in favor of retaining Gun.

That is an improvement, earlier it was 2 to 1 IIRC in favor of keeping him.


hmmm, I wonder how many times he voted.

[chefsos]

The results so far in this poll are downright scary. 31-30 in favor of retaining Gun.
Well, then, I guess I'll wade in and make it a flat footed tie.

Sorry, Gunther. Results matter.

[htismaqe]

Where's the "If they retain Gunther, I'm finding a new team" option?

[Chiefnj]

I'm being 100% honest - wasn't Gunita on the top of the list of coaching candidates for KC the last time around?

[wolfpack0735]

get rid of guns defensive staff. move gun back up stairs,at least it would be harder for the tv get catch him flipp`n the bird. give a average or better d-line, if that dont help give the door.

[cdcox]

If Vermiel or Saunders coach next year, then yes. It doesn't make sense to try yet another defensive scheme when you are looking at a 1 or 2 year window on the offense.

[chagrin]

Well, as I said in another thread. I don't think he deserves to be run out of town, you guys are just still pissed, and I understand it, but you can't simply run him out of town angrily. It's obvious that he has lost a little touch but he can still be a good benefit to a "unit" of the team like the line or something. Keep him on as an assistant, upstairs maybe working with the line only, or the LB's only.

[StcChief]

Keep him get some DLine
Let him pick some better coaches to
work with him another year.

Jury is out on what he can do, since he was hamstrung
in picking coaches.

[Mr. Laz]

hell no

[htismaqe]

The excuses for Gunther continue...

[Simply Red]

Huge improvement since he took over, plus you have to love his passion

:cuss: 4321

ROFL


I'd have to agree. Hopefully he'll have even more ingredients to work with.

[Simply Red]

The excuses for Gunther continue...


They sure do "Train-Jumper!"

[BigRedChief]

from artsy 1 poster on another board.

In my opinion, Gunther is just too damned STUBBORN!! Yes, offenses have move past Gunther's style of prehistoric Defensive schemes. Gunther is stubborn!

There's no one on this message board than can lead me to believe that we don't have the talent on this defense to be ranked in the top 5 on defense. Even with the poor DT play we have, this defense should still be much better, and here's why:
Gunther should utilize his talent better....
1.
The right way: Use Surtain for what he was brought in for....TO SHUT DOWN the others team best reciever!

Gunthers way: "We don't play with a #1 and #2 corner, we play right and left corners only"

Result: Teams line up there best recievers away from Surtain, usually in the slot on Benny Sapp (Now Dexter) or Warfield.

2.
The right way: Disguise your damn Blitz packages for Christ sake!!!
Gunthers way: Show that your blitzing before the offense even lines up on the damn ball.

Results: The quarterback calls an audible, and the blitz becomes absoulutely ineffective, in return the offense ususally picks up a big play because the offenses #1 reciever is in man to man with someone in the secondary besides SURTAIN!

3.
The right way: When we do blitz, bump and jam the recievers! It will throw the timing of the offense off completely.
Gunthers way: Line the Fuc#ing DB's up 7-10 yds. off the recievers....When it's 3rd and 8.

Results: Quarterback see's were blitzing (Duh), audibles for the recievers to do a quick slant or 5-8 yd. curl, and boom the reciever catches the pass 3 yds. short of the first down, turns and makes the corner miss, and gets tackled by the safety 5-10yds. pass the first down marker....Fu*k!!!!

Because I am a Juinor high school football coach, it drives me up the damn wall when I watch the defense. I was as big a cheerleader for Gunther as everyone else was when he was brought back, but the league's offenses has seemed to evolve past his blood and guts, smashmouth type of defensive schemes.
I mean hell, K. Bell looks like a damn fish out water. The damn guy is either confused or just not playing with a lot of heart. I mean, I haven't seen him wrap a player up all freakin year. All he does is run up and smack people with his pads and never wrap them up. It's obvious to see that he needs to playing either middle LB, or we need to move to a 3-4 defense so he can play the outside DE/OLB position like Merriman does for the bolts.

The fat ass guy sucks in space, and although he is quick, he is nowhere fast enough to play OLB. Gunther is not untilizing the talent on this defense...period! DJ and Bell should be blitzing like wild men all the freakin time.

When DJ is not blitzing, he should be manned up on the Tight-end.... NOT 5-10' SAMMY "can't cover anyone with a bed sheet" KNIGHT! Sammy is awsome in run support, but he hasn't showed me anything as far as coverage. Tight-ends and slot recievers burn Sammy all the time...

And of course, what does Gunther say......"We don't play Weak and Strong side LB's, we play Left and Right side.

Well Gun, teams are beating up your defense pretty damn bad. You refuse to roll your safties over the top for support. You don't double team, you don't let you best athletes line up and play head to head with the opponents best athletes and last but least, the entire defense plays very undisiplined.

So, to conclude, in my opinion Gunther is simply being outcoached because he is to damn stubborn to change his style. Teams pick up on his defensive schemes very quick, hence, all of the 2nd half disasters we've seen.

I hate to say it, but Gunther must change or go!

[HemiEd]

from artsy 1 poster on another board.

In my opinion, Gunther is just too damned STUBBORN!! Yes, offenses have move past Gunther's style of prehistoric Defensive schemes. Gunther is stubborn!

There's no one on this message board than can lead me to believe that we don't have the talent on this defense to be ranked in the top 5 on defense. Even with the poor DT play we have, this defense should still be much better, and here's why:
Gunther should utilize his talent better....
1.
The right way: Use Surtain for what he was brought in for....TO SHUT DOWN the others team best reciever!

Gunthers way: "We don't play with a #1 and #2 corner, we play right and left corners only"

Result: Teams line up there best recievers away from Surtain, usually in the slot on Benny Sapp (Now Dexter) or Warfield.

2.
The right way: Disguise your damn Blitz packages for Christ sake!!!
Gunthers way: Show that your blitzing before the offense even lines up on the damn ball.

Results: The quarterback calls an audible, and the blitz becomes absoulutely ineffective, in return the offense ususally picks up a big play because the offenses #1 reciever is in man to man with someone in the secondary besides SURTAIN!

3.
The right way: When we do blitz, bump and jam the recievers! It will throw the timing of the offense off completely.
Gunthers way: Line the Fuc#ing DB's up 7-10 yds. off the recievers....When it's 3rd and 8.

Results: Quarterback see's were blitzing (Duh), audibles for the recievers to do a quick slant or 5-8 yd. curl, and boom the reciever catches the pass 3 yds. short of the first down, turns and makes the corner miss, and gets tackled by the safety 5-10yds. pass the first down marker....Fu*k!!!!

Because I am a Juinor high school football coach, it drives me up the damn wall when I watch the defense. I was as big a cheerleader for Gunther as everyone else was when he was brought back, but the league's offenses has seemed to evolve past his blood and guts, smashmouth type of defensive schemes.
I mean hell, K. Bell looks like a damn fish out water. The damn guy is either confused or just not playing with a lot of heart. I mean, I haven't seen him wrap a player up all freakin year. All he does is run up and smack people with his pads and never wrap them up. It's obvious to see that he needs to playing either middle LB, or we need to move to a 3-4 defense so he can play the outside DE/OLB position like Merriman does for the bolts.

The fat ass guy sucks in space, and although he is quick, he is nowhere fast enough to play OLB. Gunther is not untilizing the talent on this defense...period! DJ and Bell should be blitzing like wild men all the freakin time.

When DJ is not blitzing, he should be manned up on the Tight-end.... NOT 5-10' SAMMY "can't cover anyone with a bed sheet" KNIGHT! Sammy is awsome in run support, but he hasn't showed me anything as far as coverage. Tight-ends and slot recievers burn Sammy all the time...

And of course, what does Gunther say......"We don't play Weak and Strong side LB's, we play Left and Right side.

Well Gun, teams are beating up your defense pretty damn bad. You refuse to roll your safties over the top for support. You don't double team, you don't let you best athletes line up and play head to head with the opponents best athletes and last but least, the entire defense plays very undisiplined.

So, to conclude, in my opinion Gunther is simply being outcoached because he is to damn stubborn to change his style. Teams pick up on his defensive schemes very quick, hence, all of the 2nd half disasters we've seen.

I hate to say it, but Gunther must change or go!

Pretty much.

[FringeNC]

Let me get this straight: Gunther has coached the D that is the worst in the league --look it up, it is over a two-year period --and more than 50% of you guys think he should stay? I guess Chiefs' fans don't care about results as long as the coach says he likes the town, and flips off officials, and wears yellow sunglasses.

[dirk digler]

I voted no and I hope all of the coaches are gone after this season. We need to douche real bad.

[LiL stumppy]

He has made our defense better.We lose a game and everyone is ready to fire every coach and start over.Its stupid,you dont fire a coach that has allowed one-100 yard rusher in like 16 games our something like that.We all know he has made our defense better,no need to get rid of him.

[htismaqe]

He has made our defense better.We lose a game and everyone is ready to fire every coach and start over.Its stupid,you dont fire a coach that has allowed one-100 yard rusher in like 16 games our something like that.We all know he has made our defense better,no need to get rid of him.

Yeah, this reaction is based solely on one bad game against New York.

:rolleyes:

[Hammock Parties]

He has made our defense better.We lose a game and everyone is ready to fire every coach and start over.Its stupid,you dont fire a coach that has allowed one-100 yard rusher in like 16 games our something like that.We all know he has made our defense better,no need to get rid of him.

We lost more than a game. Our defensive "improvement" was a mirage. The last month has been nothing but crappy defense.

[LiL stumppy]

LOL.Everyone here is biased to one game every week.I remember when everyone was exciting about the defense and now our DC should be fired because of a few games?

[LiL stumppy]

My point is you can't get rid of him because of a few bad weeks.

[htismaqe]

My point is you can't get rid of him because of a few bad weeks.

My point is that it isn't a few bad weeks.

So far, in points allowed and turnovers, as well as rushing yards per carry (the three stats that matter most IMO), Gunther is worse over 2 years than Robinson was.

[Brock]

LOL.Everyone here is biased to one game every week.I remember when everyone was exciting about the defense and now our DC should be fired because of a few games?

Nothing personal, but when you're hanging on to playoff hopes by your fingernails, it is no time for a defense to completely implode. I'm still trying to give Cunningham the benefit of the doubt, sort of, but lately things are looking very Robinsonesque.

[Hammock Parties]

You don't double team

Well I want Gunther gone, but I will disagree with you here. I've seen us doubling guys this year. Not nearly enough.

I'd like us to run a scheme like Belichick used to do. One that takes away the opponent's bread and butter.

I want to see us pound Antonio Gates at the line of scrimmage and then nail his ass with DJ and Knight inside the five yard area. You know, like what happens to Gonzalez every week?

[Hammock Parties]

My point is you can't get rid of him because of a few bad weeks.

Bad weeks -

@Denver
Philadelphia
San Diego
Denver
@Dallas
@New York Giants

Mediocre weeks -

@Oakland
Washington

Good weeks -

New York Jets
@Miami
Oakland
@Buffalo
@Houston
New England

Gunther's defense only plays well against bottom feeders. New England being the exception (even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes).

[Hammock Parties]

Look at that.

Gunther's D sucks arse when he runs into a good team with a decent offense or better.

Sounds like Greg Robinson. Remember 2003?

[FringeNC]

My point is you can't get rid of him because of a few bad weeks.

WTF? His combined overall rankings for these two years are dead last. It's more than a few bad weeks...it's a few horrendous years.

[FringeNC]

He has made our defense better.We lose a game and everyone is ready to fire every coach and start over.Its stupid,you dont fire a coach that has allowed one-100 yard rusher in like 16 games our something like that.We all know he has made our defense better,no need to get rid of him.

No, in fact he made our defense worse. Yardage rankings are virtually identical to Robinson, and Gun gets less turnovers, and allows more points scored. Here's a novel suggestion: why don't you look at the numbers instead of going on blind faith that Gunther is a stud.

[DaWolf]

Gunther can kiss my a$$. He's never been a solid defensive coordinator, he's never been a fundamentally sound defensive coordinator. He's always been an aggressive defensive coordinator. Sure you give him experienced vets like he had in '95 and they can play fundamentally sound because they've been around the block, but we've seen from him ever since just an overly aggressive attack defense, which works well if you can get to the QB consistently and create turnovers, but doesn't work so well when you're playing against a sound football team who can pass protect and run the ball. His D has always been about bend but stiffen up around the goal line and cause the big turnover, never about 3 and outs. He was the wrong man for the job in the first place and I'm shocked so many people keep wanting to make excuses for him, he's done nothing to warrant it...

[Hammock Parties]

Has anyone's opinion changed after the San Diego game?

[Logical]

No still want him and his coaching staff gone, also DV, and the special teams coaches. I would be fine with the OC and coaches going to but do not feel it is mandatory for future success.

[FringeNC]

Gunther's popularity mystifies me. Gunther was not my first choice to replace Greg Robinson, but after awhile I bought into the Gunther hype too, thinking he could turn things around. I was wrong.

The statistics are unambiguous. His combined two year rankings are the worst in the league, and think how many bad teams there are. There is just no rational basis to conclude that Gunther is better than Robinson. It's a cult of personality thing with Gunther.

Regarding talent, perhaps it is a talent deficiency as to why *both* Robinson and Gunther sucked, but you can't give Gun a free ride and demonize Robinson. It makes no sense. Additionally, Gun is more responsible than Robinson, as Carl took Gun on a shopping spree last offseason. Evidently, Gun did not choose wisely.

I am a DV supporter, but there is a silver lining to his forced retirement. If DV goes, I'd assume Gun goes to. If Gun were to be DC going into 2006, it'd be real hard to have high expectations for the season. (Unless Gun was a DC for someone like Williams, who would be the brains, and Gun could be just the fire. He might excel in a role like that.)

[siberian khatru]

Gunther's popularity mystifies me. Gunther was not my first choice to replace Greg Robinson, but after awhile I bought into the Gunther hype too, thinking he could turn things around. I was wrong.

The statistics are unambiguous. His combined two year rankings are the worst in the league, and think how many bad teams there are. There is just no rational basis to conclude that Gunther is better than Robinson. It's a cult of personality thing with Gunther.

Regarding talent, perhaps it is a talent deficiency as to why *both* Robinson and Gunther sucked, but you can't give Gun a free ride and demonize Robinson. It makes no sense. Additionally, Gun is more responsible than Robinson, as Carl took Gun on a shopping spree last offseason. Evidently, Gun did not choose wisely.

I am a DV supporter, but there is a silver lining to his forced retirement. If DV goes, I'd assume Gun goes to. If Gun were to be DC going into 2006, it'd be real hard to have high expectations for the season. (Unless Gun was a DC for someone like Williams, who would be the brains, and Gun could be just the fire. He might excel in a role like that.)


No, no, no, you just don't get it. Peter Giunta is the anchor on Gun's greatness. Cut him loose and Gun will fly like an eagle, with the D. Fly like an eagle, watch his brilliance lift the D. Oh, Lord through the revolution.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

i can't stand the fact that pat surtain is not on the other teams top wideout everyweek. all opponents do is move thier top wideout into the slot and they have a nickle corner or linebacker on them. so i'll say it's time for a change.

[ChiefFripp]

I want the whole team fired for losing The Cowboys ,Bills and Eagles games.

[DTLB58]

i can't stand the fact that pat surtain is not on the other teams top wideout everyweek. all opponents do is move thier top wideout into the slot and they have a nickle corner or linebacker on them. so i'll say it's time for a change.

:clap: I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Taco John]

I'm with Stevieray on this one... Gunther needs to stay.