A few good reasons to say no to Tim Lewis

[B_Ambuehl]

His defense has already been gutted by every AFC west team this year. This despite having 2 bad asses along the defensive line that can get after the quarterback.

S.D 45
Giants 23

S.D. 400+ total yards
Ladainian Tomlinson - 23 rush 192 yards
Drew Brees 19-22 for 192 2 TD 0 INT.

Giants- 22
Denver- 20

Denver - 385 total yards
Denver Rushing- 33 rush 191 yards

Kansas City-
362 total yards
34 rush 174 yards

Basically the defense of Tim Lewis looks like the worst defense in the NFL if you look at their stats vs AFC west football teams, giving up 400+, 385, and 362 yards respectively. They haven't even come close to stopping the run.

Why the hell would anybody want this guy to come in and run an AFC west football team when he's already been run over by that division with what is supposed to be a superior defense??

[Abba-Dabba]

Because he coached in Pittsburgh with Bill Cowher. Somehow people think they will be getting an extension of Cowher.

I myself see Tim Lewis as the next Gregg Williams.

[ChiefsfaninPA]

Because he has no relation to Marvin.

[cdcox]

B - who are your top candidates for HC?

[Mr. Laz]

A few good reasons to say no to Tim Lewis
how about a few "A few good reasons to say YES..." to somebody





laz
~knows plenty of coaches that shouldn't ... how about some that should~

[FringeNC]

His defense has already been gutted by every AFC west team this year. This despite having 2 bad asses along the defensive line that can get after the quarterback.

S.D 45
Giants 23

S.D. 400+ total yards
Ladainian Tomlinson - 23 rush 192 yards
Drew Brees 19-22 for 192 2 TD 0 INT.

Giants- 22
Denver- 20

Denver - 385 total yards
Denver Rushing- 33 rush 191 yards

Kansas City-
362 total yards
34 rush 174 yards

Basically the defense of Tim Lewis looks like the worst defense in the NFL if you look at their stats vs AFC west football teams, giving up 400+, 385, and 362 yards respectively. They haven't even come close to stopping the run.

Why the hell would anybody want this guy to come in and run an AFC west football team when he's already been run over by that division with what is supposed to be a superior defense??


As usual, good points B. I was impressed with his pass D against us. We had been rolling lately, but he held our YPA way down. I don't want him either, but he's not terrible.

[JBucc]

Perhpas it'd be quicker if you told us who to say yes to

[B_Ambuehl]

B - who are your top candidates for HC?

There is nothign wrong with the head coaching position as is. Dick and Al run the offense not the defense and that is understood by the people who know football. That offense is tops in the NFL over the span they've been here. You don't fix what ain't broke and you particularly don't fix what is #1. The offense still has several good years so why tear it apart? It's the defense that sux. Gunther wasn't hired by Dick he was hired by Carl Peterson. Gunther needs to be run off and the head and offensive coaches retained just like at the end of '03 but this time they need to look for a MODERN defensive coach and a SCHEME that fits the STRENGTH of the TEAM and the PLAYERS and not try to make players fit a SCHEME that they can't play!

Having said that, it won't happen. Basically, the only good candidate for the job besides Dick is Al Saunders. None of those other ****ers will be able to maintain 1/2 the offensive output and they won't give anythign on defense we couldnt' get by running off Cunningham and replacing him with a host of up and coming defensive coaches. The thing with Al is he's either head coach or nothing. He ain't gonna stay around as O.C.

So basically in order to sign Herm or whatever flavor of the month head coach that means pissing away the leagues #1 offense in favor of some Jimmy Ray/Paul Hackett coordinated bullshit and not gaining anything more on defense you couldn't get by keeping the offensive staff intact.

So regardless of what happens I will most likely be pissed and will likely be blasting somebody.

The only scenario that could even be moderately successful as far as maintaining the strenghts of the team is if whatever new head coach comes in and gives Solari a shot at offensive coordinator. I wouldn't expect him to be as successful as Al but I think he could probably do a pretty good job with the same offense. Al's play calling and the way he keeps defenses off balance is hard to duplicate and well respected by other coaches yet severely under-rated by the fans

[Mr. Laz]

There is nothign wrong with the head coaching position as is. Dick and Al run the offense not the defense and that is understood by the people who know football.

lemme get this straight...


you've spent the last week picking apart various head coaching because of lack of performance and then you say there's nothing wrong with the head coaching we have now?


WTF??


vermeil is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense. Either Vermeil needs to get his arse in there and fix the defense or he needs to stop protecting his under-achieving defensive coaching staff.

[B_Ambuehl]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I also said "football people realize Vermeil is the offensive guy"

Just like people in the know didn't blame Tony Dungy when the Bucs were getting their ass kicked and he was head coach. That football team was #1 on defense and he (Dungy) most likely was hand tied by a GM when it came to the guys running the offense.

Carl handcuffed Dick with this Gunther Cunningham crap.

[FringeNC]

There is nothign wrong with the head coaching position as is. Dick and Al run the offense not the defense and that is understood by the people who know football. That offense is tops in the NFL over the span they've been here. You don't fix what ain't broke and you particularly don't fix what is #1. The offense still has several good years so why tear it apart? It's the defense that sux. Gunther wasn't hired by Dick he was hired by Carl Peterson. Gunther needs to be run off and the head and offensive coaches retained just like at the end of '03 but this time they need to look for a MODERN defensive coach and a SCHEME that fits the STRENGTH of the TEAM and the PLAYERS and not try to make players fit a SCHEME that they can't play!


Yep, everyone wants to blame Vermeil for the D, but I don't see how it's his fault. DV has nothing to do with the D, just as Dungy has nothing to do with the O at Indy.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Carl handcuffed Dick with this Gunther Cunningham crap.

wrong....... Gunther is handcuffed by the ever loyal to his coaches Vermeil. Vermeil is the reason that Gunther has crap for a staff.

[007]

wrong....... Gunther is handcuffed by the ever loyal to his coaches Vermeil. Vermeil is the reason that Gunther has crap for a staff.

Can you even call it a staff if you didn't hand pick it.

[Amnorix]

1. The AFC West has some of the best offenses in the NFL. Between the Denver running game, Priest Holmes/LJ and LT in SD, those are three of the most potent offenses in the NFL. Shanarat and DV are both acknowledged offensive masterminds with MULTIPLE SUPER BOWL victories between them.

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Giants went 2-1 against those three teams you listed, even though they gave up alot of yards, they didn't give up a ton of points except to SD, right?

[Rausch]

I'd love to see Capers take over as DC once he's fired...

[FringeNC]

wrong....... Gunther is handcuffed by the ever loyal to his coaches Vermeil. Vermeil is the reason that Gunther has crap for a staff.

Gunther has his own coaches except for Guinta, who was very successful at Philly. It's ludicrous to blame Guinta for the bad D. He doesn't call the plays.

[cdcox]

The offense still has several good years so why tear it apart?

SEVERAL? Several generally means more than three.

The offense has one, maybe 2 years, left. Roaf and Green will be gone then. There are not 32 starting quality LT and QB in the league. We will be hard pressed to replace both. Plus Roaf is not any starting LT, he is a HOF caliber and much more athletic than most, as anyone who knows anything about football would know. You put an average NFL starter in at that spot and 20% of the offensive productivity disappears overnight.

DV (and Carl) blew it by not fixing the Defense when it still mattered.

[cdcox]

Oh, and not to mention that Saunders will not be OC after this year anyway. He will be HC either here in KC or somewhere else. So if you want to keep DV, say goodbye to Al.

[Rausch]

SEVERAL? Several generally means more than three.

The offense has one, maybe 2 years, left. Roaf and Green will be gone then. There are not 32 starting quality LT and QB in the league. We will be hard pressed to replace both. Plus Roaf is not any starting LT, he is a HOF caliber and much more athletic than most, as anyone who knows anything about football would know. You put an average NFL starter in at that spot and 20% of the offensive productivity disappears overnight.

DV (and Carl) blew it by not fixing the Defense when it still mattered.

Replacing Shields and Roaf will be no small feat. I think we could find good to solid replacements but again, that is a big dropoff.

Running LJ to protect/Groom our next QB would help a lot. If we can land one really good lineman at G or LT that would go a long way.

This offense won't be top 5 but it could still remain top 10. If we can continue to add talent to the defense and break the top 15 we'd be a playoff team...

[htismaqe]

lemme get this straight...

you've spent the last week picking apart various head coaching because of lack of performance and then you say there's nothing wrong with the head coaching we have now?

WTF??

vermeil is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense. Either Vermeil needs to get his arse in there and fix the defense or he needs to stop protecting his under-achieving defensive coaching staff.

EXACTLY what I was thinking.

In fact, his analysis on the various head coaching candidates was pretty good until this one.

The AFC West has 3 or 4 of the best RB's/rushing attacks in the league, so what? How has he done in general?

This argument is pretty weak.

[B_Ambuehl]

So does that mean you're saying Dungy did a bad job with the offense in Tampa Bay and a good job with the offense in Indianapolis?

Must be since he's the head coach and responsible for everything right?

Do you not grasp the concept that it was Peterson that hired Cunningham and Dick turned the defensive reigns over to him?

Does that make Dick "responsible" for the defensive execution? Maybe to a dumbass fan who thinks the head coach controls everything on a team but not to someone who knows what goes on.

his analysis on the various head coaching candidates was pretty good until this one.

The AFC West has 3 or 4 of the best RB's/rushing attacks in the league, so what? How has he done in general?

This argument is pretty weak.

Yeah and imagine if he had to play the AFC west twice per year instead of once. That would be at least 6 games per year giving up 180 yards rushing and 400 yards offense. Hell, even Gunther Cunningham does better then that.

[Abba-Dabba]

There is nothign wrong with the head coaching position as is. Dick and Al run the offense not the defense and that is understood by the people who know football.

ROFL

That's the funniest line of crap I've heard all week.

[Coogs]

I'd love to see Capers take over as DC once he's fired...

I'd like to see Mike Singletary be our new DC working under HC Ron Rivera.

[Abba-Dabba]

Must be since he's the head coach and responsible for everything right?



Yes, a head coach is responsible for the team he puts on the field. And that team includes a defense.

What you are saying, and you don't realize it, is that you see DV is nothing more than the co-offensive coordinator and not the head coach. So why then is he considered the head coach if he isn't responsible for his entire team?

[Abba-Dabba]

I'd like to see Mike Singletary be our new DC working under HC Ron Rivera.


Now that's what I'm talkin bout. :thumb:

[cdcox]

Yes, a head coach is responsible for the team he puts on the field. And that team includes a defense.

What you are saying, and you don't realize it, is that you see DV is nothing more than the co-offensive coordinator and not the head coach. So why then is he considered the head coach if he isn't responsible for his entire team?

You obviously don't know anything about football.





;)

[B_Ambuehl]

Yes, a head coach is responsible for the team he puts on the field. And that team includes a defense.

What you are saying, and you don't realize it, is that you see DV is nothing more than the co-offensive coordinator and not the head coach. So why then is he considered the head coach if he isn't responsible for his entire team?

Understand that there's a difference between responsibility and implementation.

You and other guys like you know exactly what the hell I'm talking about so quit acting ****ing stupid. A head coach does not implement everything on a football team. They do, however, take the heat when the things they don't implement don't work and get the credit for when they do. You can't tell me you're too ****ing stupid to realize that.

I would hope the knowledge on this forum woudl be of such that people could distinguish between who "takes" the responsibility for something vs who actually "is" responsible for something.

[chagrin]

ROFL

That's the funniest line of crap I've heard all week.

ROFL

thank you


Beuhler, Beuhler?

"those that know football..." "...those in the know..." talking down to anyone who doesn't agree. I particularly enjoy reading the constant condescending words he uses to everyone who questions him.

[B_Ambuehl]

Hey you guys are more then welcome to talk down to me too. At least instead of just running my damn mouth about stuff I am clueless about I actually use verifiable information and stats to back up what I'm saying.

[Abba-Dabba]

Understand that there's a difference between responsibility and implementation.

You and other guys like you know exactly what the hell I'm talking about so quit acting ****ing stupid. A head coach does not implement everything on a football team. They do, however, take the heat when the things they don't implement don't work and get the credit for when they do. You can't tell me you're too ****ing stupid to realize that.

I would hope the knowledge on this forum woudl be of such that people could distinguish between who "takes" the responsibility for something vs who actually "is" responsible for something.

It's okay Francis. No need to get hostile.

No matter how you want to say it, or don't want to. DV is responsible for the team he puts on the field. It doesn't matter if he a offensive guy or a defensive guy. He is the head coach. He takes the majority of the blame for the problems that arise.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[B_Ambuehl]

Well who's responsible after Vermeil? Why don't extend that a step further and blame Carl Peterson? He hired Vermeil right?

Yeah he's the one needs to go.

But wait. Who's responsible for him?

Oh. That would be Lamar Hunt right.

Hell, why don't we blame him for everything?

[chagrin]

Hey you guys are more then welcome to talk down to me too. At least instead of just running my damn mouth about stuff I am clueless about I actually use verifiable information and stats to back up what I'm saying.


All I'm saying is that, just because people don't throw out stats with their arguments, DOESN'T mean they are clueless to what they are seeing on the field and when you see the season standings, we all have a right to bitch about it.

Simply pulling out the ole ""clueless" and "people that really know football" and stuff like that, is just a tad bit hacky.

Carry on

[FringeNC]

It's okay Francis. No need to get hostile.

No matter how you want to say it, or don't want to. DV is responsible for the team he puts on the field. It doesn't matter if he a offensive guy or a defensive guy. He is the head coach. He takes the majority of the blame for the problems that arise.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

So it's 100% Vermeil, and 0% Gun that we have an awful defense?

[Abba-Dabba]

So it's 100% Vermeil, and 0% Gun that we have an awful defense?

I didn't say that. I said he takes the majority of the blame. Does Gun have his share, you bet he does.

Are you going to tell me DV isn't the least bit responsible for the results of the defense?

[Abba-Dabba]

Well who's responsible after Vermeil? Why don't extend that a step further and blame Carl Peterson? He hired Vermeil right?

Yeah he's the one needs to go.

But wait. Who's responsible for him?

Oh. That would be Lamar Hunt right.

Hell, why don't we blame him for everything?

I think they all should go.

[FringeNC]

I didn't say that. I said he takes the majority of the blame. Does Gun have his share, you bet he does.

Are you going to tell me DV isn't the least bit responsible for the results of the defense?

Vermeil flat out said he wished he had been able to help out Greg Robinson, but that he just doesn't know defense. Dungy doesn't know O; Vermeil doesn't know D. That doesn't mean they are bad coaches. This league is incredibly specialized, and there are no jack-of-all-trades coaches anymore. Gun has been given control of the D by Vermeil and Peterson, and has completely failed. Vermeil is responsible only in the sense that he let CP dictate who his DC was.

[B_Ambuehl]

I don't know what he'll say but I'd say with the free reign he's given Gun is really 100% responsible but will take 0% of that by the fans and media while Dick Vermeil is 0% responsible yet takes 100% of that responsbility by the fans and the media.

[FringeNC]

Look at Seattle. Do you think Seattle is all of a sudden good because Holmgrem suddenly remembered how to coach D again, or because his D coordinator is finally doing a good job? They have always had a pretty good offense.

[Abba-Dabba]

Vermeil flat out said he wished he had been able to help out Greg Robinson, but that he just doesn't know defense. Dungy doesn't know O; Vermeil doesn't know D. That doesn't mean they are bad coaches. This league is incredibly specialized, and there are no jack-of-all-trades coaches anymore. Gun has been given control of the D by Vermeil and Peterson, and has completely failed. Vermeil is responsible only in the sense that he let CP dictate who his DC was.

I didn't say he was a bad coach. What the hell is this? Put words in my mouth day or somethin?

If DV still had his choice of DC's. We'd still have Greg Robinson. Oh joy!

Gun was never given complete control of the defense. Starting with not letting him make his choices of position coaches to the retaining of McCleon. If DV doesn't know a thing about defense, maybe he should stick his nose out of evaluating of defensive players then.

[Abba-Dabba]

I don't know what he'll say but I'd say with the free reign he's given Gun is really 100% responsible but will take 0% of that by the fans and media while Dick Vermeil is 0% responsible yet takes 100% of that responsbility by the fans and the media.

Free reign? Is that like not letting your DC make any changes to the defensive coaching staff?

[Abba-Dabba]

Look at Seattle. Do you think Seattle is all of a sudden good because Holmgrem suddenly remembered how to coach D again, or because his D coordinator is finally doing a good job? They have always had a pretty good offense.

You wanna know what Holmgren has to say? Here it is...


http://www.seahawks.com/ardisplay.aspx?SecID=45&ID=1501
"Well, certainly. There's not much that happens around here that I don't feel responsible for, and that's what makes it hard, because I hope I've never given the impression that it's that guys fault, or that guys fault, or the players fault, I'm responsible ultimately for what happens, and so I would say have I done some soul searching? It's pretty much on a daily basis, and I'm disappointed, frustrated, and angry, and I feel bad about where we are and what our record is right now. I had much higher expectations for the start of our season this year and it hasn't happened, and we have 10 games left, and there's only one way to approach it now, and that's to keep going hard, keep working, and hopefully we can turn it around."

[FringeNC]

I didn't say he was a bad coach. What the hell is this? Put words in my mouth day or somethin?

If DV still had his choice of DC's. We'd still have Greg Robinson. Oh joy!

Gun was never given complete control of the defense. Starting with not letting him make his choices of position coaches to the retaining of McCleon. If DV doesn't know a thing about defense, maybe he should stick his nose out of evaluating of defensive players then.

How many DC get choose the positions to upgrade, and the players they want at that position? Gun has more control of the D than just about any coordinator has in the league. It goes from Gun to CP on D, and DV is virtually out of the loop entirely. He's virtually said as much himself.

Vermeil realized he made a mistake with Greg Robinson, and that is why he deferred to Carl in the hiring of Gun, which turned out to be a disaster.

[FringeNC]

You wanna know what Holmgren has to say? Here it is...


http://www.seahawks.com/ardisplay.aspx?SecID=45&ID=1501

He WAS a little bit more responsible, because if I remember correctly, he was both head coach and GM at the same time. I think that DC was fired, by the way, so Holmgren did think his DC was responsible, whether he said so in public or not.

[Abba-Dabba]

How many DC get choose the positions to upgrade, and the players they want at that position? Gun has more control of the D than just about any coordinator has in the league. It goes from Gun to CP on D, and DV is virtually out of the loop entirely. He's virtually said as much himself.

Vermeil realized he made a mistake with Greg Robinson, and that is why he deferred to Carl in the hiring of Gun, which turned out to be a disaster.

I don't know how many DC's are allowed to make changes to coaches? Do you?

[htismaqe]

Yeah and imagine if he had to play the AFC west twice per year instead of once. That would be at least 6 games per year giving up 180 yards rushing and 400 yards offense. Hell, even Gunther Cunningham does better then that.

He's 2-1 against the AFC West.

If he played them twice instead of once, he'd be 4-2 and we'd have the same record that Dick Vermeil has.

Thanks for playing. Try again.

[htismaqe]

I don't know how many DC's are allowed to make changes to coaches? Do you?

How many beaten-down losers with inferiority complexes take jobs where they've already been told they'll get no control and all of the blame?

**** Gunther...he knew what he was getting. Once again his ego wrote a check that his "genius" wasn't able to cash...

[dj56dt58]

As a head coach you are responsible for all 3 phases of the game. Offense, Defense, and special teams. That's why he is the head coach, that's why he gets a bigger pay check. The first few years Grob had a horrible Defense. The past few years Gunther has had a horrible Defense. All 5 years Vermeil has been head coach of the horrible Defense. Vermeil IS responsible because he is the head coach.

[Hammock Parties]

B, are you saying Dick isn't responsible at all for the lousy D?

[Abba-Dabba]

How many beaten-down losers with inferiority complexes take jobs where they've already been told they'll get no control and all of the blame?

**** Gunther...he knew what he was getting. Once again his ego wrote a check that his "genius" wasn't able to cash...

On your question. I dunno. I'm sure there are their share of them though.

On the second part of your post. I completely agree.

[shaneo69]

I'd like to see Mike Singletary be our new DC working under HC Ron Rivera.

I don't see that happening. Reason being, Singletary was the leader of the '80's Bears defense, the MLB, the coach on the field, the HOF'er, while Rivera was a backup OLB/special teamer. I just don't see Singletary working for Rivera; it would be like if Derrick Thomas went to work for Greg Manusky.

[Brock]

I don't see that happening. Reason being, Singletary was the leader of the '80's Bears defense, the MLB, the coach on the field, the HOF'er, while Rivera was a backup OLB/special teamer. I just don't see Singletary working for Rivera; it would be like if Derrick Thomas went to work for Greg Manusky.

I doubt it makes any difference. It doesn't diminish Singletary as a player. Hell, he's already working for an 11th round draft pick who never played a down.

[wolfpack0735]

gun has lost it but it dosent matter who you want to be the next DC, if the over payed idiots cant tackle it wont matter.

[B_Ambuehl]

Yeah the team Tim Lewis coaches on was fortunate enough to win 2 out of 3 games vs the AFC West but these stats show he shouldn't get much credit at all for that The offense was fortunate enough to be red hot and they would've lose all 3 of those games were it not for bad calls the Giants got vs the Broncos and that pop warner defense run by the KC Chiefs.

His defense sure didn't help much with their efforts. The point is he's being touted as a defensive guru and what these stats show is his defense plays no better then Gun's defense even with (supposedly) better players. The team defensive stats for the NY Giants are helped by 8 games against a dismally weak NFC east offensive football division. When a football team gives up over 150 yards rushing and over 350 total yards more often then not they lose the football game and his defense has consistently done that against good football teams.

If he gets hired as head coach and comes in here next year I don't see anything to indicate that in 8 games against the afc west next year that his defense will play any better then they have so far in the 3 games against the AFC west this year. Especially since he has better players on that defense right now then he will have next year coaching this Chiefs defensive football team. But who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll be the next Marv Lewis.

[B_Ambuehl]

B, are you saying Dick isn't responsible at all for the lousy D?

I think one thing you could put on him is that he lets his coaches coach maybe a bit more then he should.

[shaneo69]

Has anyone mentioned that Bill Cowher fired Tim Lewis because he wasn't doing an adequate job in Pittsburgh?

[milkman]

I think one thing you could put on him is that he lets his coaches coach maybe a bit more then he should.

No, his coaches don't have any accountability.

Spinner was in charge of the worst defense in the NFL for 3 years.
Does Dick fire him?

No, he cries when he resigns.

That's why everyone thinks of this team as soft.
Even if you suck at your job, whether you are a player or coach, under Dick, you don't believe you'll be held accountable and lose your job.

[shaneo69]

No, his coaches don't have any accountability.

Spinner was in charge of the worst defense in the NFL for 3 years.
Does Dick fire him?

No, he cries when he resigns.

That's why everyone thinks of this team as soft.
Even if you suck at your job, whether you are a player or coach, under Dick, you don't believe you'll be held accountable and lose your job.

I agree, and that's the only reason I still give Gunther the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the players or defensive assistants are buying into Gunther's philosophy because I think they would rather be a part of Dick's big happy family. Gunther has nobody to back him up, nobody's got his back. If he actually had somebody there like Chuck Cecil or James Hasty who had his back, I think he'd get a better response. But I get the feeling that the players and defensive assistants would rather stay in DV's good graces because they know they'll never get fired if they stay on his good side. Gunther has no spies on this staff who will let him know when players or other coaches are doing their own thing.

Kawika has bought into the system because Gun hounded him all off-season because he needs a tough MLB. Some of the young guys have bought in because they are young and don't know better, but I think the holdovers like Hicks, Wesley, McCleon, Sims, Bartee, and Woods are bringing down this defense.

And do you really think Guinta or Hairston are fully behind Gunther? Those are DV guys. Karmelowicz was hired by Marty, and apparently Marty and Gun don't get along any more. Vernon Dean was hired by DV/GRob, and we don't know who Pagac has connections with.

Gunther really screwed himself by letting this happen. It's his fault, just like when he thought he could win as HC with Jimmy Raye, Kurt, and Stock as his coordinators.

I don't think it's going to change until DV is gone and the new HC picks a new staff.

[DTLB58]

Has anyone mentioned that Bill Cowher fired Tim Lewis because he wasn't doing an adequate job in Pittsburgh?

As was Bill Billicheck in Cleveland.......

[DTLB58]

As a head coach you are responsible for all 3 phases of the game. Offense, Defense, and special teams. That's why he is the head coach, that's why he gets a bigger pay check. The first few years Grob had a horrible Defense. The past few years Gunther has had a horrible Defense. All 5 years Vermeil has been head coach of the horrible Defense. Vermeil IS responsible because he is the head coach.

:clap:

[DTLB58]

He's 2-1 against the AFC West.

If he played them twice instead of once, he'd be 4-2 and we'd have the same record that Dick Vermeil has.

Thanks for playing. Try again.

ROFL

[booger]

I'd like to see Mike Singletary be our new DC working under HC Ron Rivera.
That would be awesome. Hand the OC duties to Solari and I would totally love it.

[htismaqe]

I agree, and that's the only reason I still give Gunther the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the players or defensive assistants are buying into Gunther's philosophy because I think they would rather be a part of Dick's big happy family. Gunther has nobody to back him up, nobody's got his back. If he actually had somebody there like Chuck Cecil or James Hasty who had his back, I think he'd get a better response. But I get the feeling that the players and defensive assistants would rather stay in DV's good graces because they know they'll never get fired if they stay on his good side. Gunther has no spies on this staff who will let him know when players or other coaches are doing their own thing.

Kawika has bought into the system because Gun hounded him all off-season because he needs a tough MLB. Some of the young guys have bought in because they are young and don't know better, but I think the holdovers like Hicks, Wesley, McCleon, Sims, Bartee, and Woods are bringing down this defense.

And do you really think Guinta or Hairston are fully behind Gunther? Those are DV guys. Karmelowicz was hired by Marty, and apparently Marty and Gun don't get along any more. Vernon Dean was hired by DV/GRob, and we don't know who Pagac has connections with.

Gunther really screwed himself by letting this happen. It's his fault, just like when he thought he could win as HC with Jimmy Raye, Kurt, and Stock as his coordinators.

I don't think it's going to change until DV is gone and the new HC picks a new staff.

Gunther picked Pagac.

[FringeNC]

I agree, and that's the only reason I still give Gunther the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the players or defensive assistants are buying into Gunther's philosophy because I think they would rather be a part of Dick's big happy family. Gunther has nobody to back him up, nobody's got his back. If he actually had somebody there like Chuck Cecil or James Hasty who had his back, I think he'd get a better response. But I get the feeling that the players and defensive assistants would rather stay in DV's good graces because they know they'll never get fired if they stay on his good side. Gunther has no spies on this staff who will let him know when players or other coaches are doing their own thing.

Kawika has bought into the system because Gun hounded him all off-season because he needs a tough MLB. Some of the young guys have bought in because they are young and don't know better, but I think the holdovers like Hicks, Wesley, McCleon, Sims, Bartee, and Woods are bringing down this defense.

And do you really think Guinta or Hairston are fully behind Gunther? Those are DV guys. Karmelowicz was hired by Marty, and apparently Marty and Gun don't get along any more. Vernon Dean was hired by DV/GRob, and we don't know who Pagac has connections with.

Gunther really screwed himself by letting this happen. It's his fault, just like when he thought he could win as HC with Jimmy Raye, Kurt, and Stock as his coordinators.

I don't think it's going to change until DV is gone and the new HC picks a new staff.

Wow. An Oliver Stone interpretation as to why Gun has failed. I'll go with Occam's Razor, and conclude that Gun is not a very good D coordinator.

[shaneo69]

Gunther picked Pagac.

Source?

[htismaqe]

Source?

I heard Gunther on the radio talking about it at the time. Joe Vitt left because he hates Gunther and didn't want to work for him.

http://chiefs.scout.com/2/346300.html

[Hammock Parties]

Joe Vitt left because he hates Gunther and didn't want to work for him.


ROFL

[shaneo69]

I heard Gunther on the radio talking about it at the time. Joe Vitt left because he hates Gunther and didn't want to work for him.

http://chiefs.scout.com/2/346300.html

Okay, I guess I'll take your word for it since the Gunther-Pagac connection wasn't mentioned in the press release on KCChiefs.com when Pagac was hired or in the articles in the Star at the time.

It's a shame we lost such a great coach in Joe Vitt. He has really helped to turn the Rams defense around.