How do we keep this offensive system? [Archive]

FringeNC

12-24-2005, 05:00 PM

"systems" are overrated.

Players win football games.

Explain the turnaround of Notre Dame's offense under Charlie Weis. Went from about the worst in the country to about the best in the country with the same players.

Hammock Parties

12-24-2005, 05:00 PM

Yes, but we've obviously got something clicking with what we're doing. If it isn't broke...

The thing that is clicking is this ridiculously good running back and offensive line.

That being said, I hope we keep Saunders as OC.

Alphaman

12-24-2005, 05:01 PM

Will the new coach coming in want to keep the same system, ala when Dungy came to the Colts?

Or will it be a tear down of players to fit the new system he wants?

What would you prefer?

If we can convince Roaf to come back next year, I'd like to see Herm Edwards come in and promote Solari or Shea to OC to run the same system. I'm assuming Saunders leaves if he doesn't get the HC gig, even if he doesn't get one somewhere else.

Chiefs Pantalones

12-24-2005, 05:03 PM

If we can convince Roaf to come back next year, I'd like to see Herm Edwards come in and promote Solari or Shea to OC to run the same system. I'm assuming Saunders leaves if he doesn't get the HC gig, even if he doesn't get one somewhere else.

Herm Edwards? ROFL He'll tear that offense down faster than you can say, "Hello...you play to win the game!!!"

sedated

12-24-2005, 05:04 PM

Saunders is our head coach, or he's gone.

Plus, any other HC will want his own system and coaches.

But with this RB and O-line (please stay, BigWillie) we will be good at any offensive system.

Alphaman

12-24-2005, 05:04 PM

Herm Edwards? ROFL He'll tear that offense down faster than you can say, "Hello...you play to win the game!!!"

I don't think that is true. Herm is a smart guy and I think he'll recognize that this has been a top 5 offense for the past 5 years.

What do you base that statement on?

Chiefs Pantalones

12-24-2005, 05:07 PM

I don't think that is true. Herm is a smart guy and I think he'll recognize that this has been a top 5 offense for the past 5 years.

What do you base that statement on?

Why do you want a coach that hired Paul Hackett to be OC?

penchief

12-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Keep Roaf and Green healthy.

jspchief

12-24-2005, 05:09 PM

The new coaches aren't going to bring this offense down. Age is.

Chiefs Pantalones

12-24-2005, 05:10 PM

Chiefs Pantalones

12-24-2005, 05:11 PM

The new coaches aren't going to bring this offense down. Age is.

Very good point.

Logical

12-24-2005, 05:13 PM

Herm Edwards? ROFL He'll tear that offense down faster than you can say, "Hello...you play to win the game!!!"I think you are probably correct, Herm is more old style Marty, win with ball control and defense.

Wile_E_Coyote

12-24-2005, 05:16 PM

is it really going to hurt anything to give AS two years as HC

Dunit35

12-24-2005, 05:37 PM

Its going to suck to be Al when he doesnt get the job. Id give it to him and let him see what he can do. Maybe he will light a fire under his own ass and be a badass coach.

oaklandhater

12-24-2005, 06:47 PM

is it really going to hurt anything to give AS two years as HC

Yea it would it be like resigning DV for 2 more years.

htismaqe

12-24-2005, 06:57 PM

Keeping this system is quite easy.

You hire a smart coach (like Dungy) that knows better than to scrap something that is working.

Hammock Parties

12-24-2005, 06:59 PM

Keeping this system is quite easy.

You hire a smart coach (like Dungy) that knows better than to scrap something that is working.

That's a really good example...but will Saunders stick around as OC?

htismaqe

12-24-2005, 07:01 PM

That's a really good example...but will Saunders stick around as OC?

Does it HAVE to be Saunders? Teams shuffle coordinators all the time and the systems survive. We just need to find someone that has experience in this offense, like maybe Solari.

Chan93lx50

12-24-2005, 09:09 PM

Does it HAVE to be Saunders? Teams shuffle coordinators all the time and the systems survive. We just need to find someone that has experience in this offense, like maybe Solari.

Trent Green knows the system

Hell, Tom Brady lost his cordinator and they were able to keep the same system.

BigMeatballDave

12-24-2005, 09:18 PM

"systems" are overrated.

Players win football games.Well said. I hate that 'system' shit. Who are we, ****ing donkey fans?

BigMeatballDave

12-24-2005, 09:19 PM

Explain the turnaround of Notre Dame's offense under Charlie Weis. Went from about the worst in the country to about the best in the country with the same players.Ummm...Weis is a good coach?

BigMeatballDave

12-24-2005, 09:22 PM

is it really going to hurt anything to give AS two years as HCNo. I'm sick of status quo, though...

Frankie

12-25-2005, 01:53 AM

"systems" are overrated.

Players win football games.
Sorry gochiefs, but that's bullsh!t.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 01:55 AM

Explain the turnaround of Notre Dame's offense under Charlie Weis. Went from about the worst in the country to about the best in the country with the same players.BINGO!

Chiefs Pantalones

12-25-2005, 01:58 AM

BINGO!

Sometimes you have talent, but it's just not being used right...

Frankie

12-25-2005, 01:58 AM

Saunders is our head coach, or he's gone.

Plus, any other HC will want his own system and coaches.That's why in the event of the incredible stupidity of letting Saunders slip away, I'd want someone like Cam Cameron from the old Coryel school to come on board. He will probably have a similar 'O' system.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 02:01 AM

is it really going to hurt anything to give AS two years as HC
Exactly my thought this afternoon. Almost word by word!

Hammock Parties

12-25-2005, 02:06 AM

Sorry gochiefs, but that's bullsh!t.

The system went to shit when Roaf went down.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 02:07 AM

Yea it would it be like resigning DV for 2 more years.No it's not. DV's problem is not his knowledge of football. He is obviously a great coach and teacher. His problem is being too soft where he's supposed to be tough with or about some people. His judgement is clouded by his blind loyalty sometimes. Not having the heart to fire GRob or Giunta for example. Stands to reason that Saunders will not be a softy like that.

tk13

12-25-2005, 02:09 AM

Besides, Herm's team is going to be, what, 3-13? We'll be the only team knocking on his door after the season they had. Injuries are apart of it, but they are just as much excuses as anything else.

You know, nevermind, as long as it's not Gunther and whoever it is makes the crap we have a defense, I'm good. I want a Super Bowl victory too, btw.
Sometimes injuries are excuses, but I don't think anybody would say that with the Jets. They've had to go through 5 quarterbacks... that's insane. If the Chiefs did that we'd go 1-15. If we were them, we'd basically be down to James Kilian at QB, Roaf and Shields out, and Dee Brown at RB. Vince Lombardi couldn't win with that group.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 02:10 AM

The system went to shit when Roaf went down.
The transmission on a Rolls Royce goes down. THe car quits moving. ERGO, RR is a bad car. :hmmm:

Hammock Parties

12-25-2005, 02:14 AM

The transmission on a Rolls Royce goes down. THe car quits moving. ERGO, RR is a bad car. :hmmm:

If the system was so great, one bad player shouldn't have ruined it.

Systems are overrated. Do you really think Robinson's "system" won two Super Bowls?

Hammock Parties

12-25-2005, 02:15 AM

For more evidence about how overrated "systems" are, check out the 2005 Chicago Bears defense.

Chiefs Pantalones

12-25-2005, 02:17 AM

Sometimes injuries are excuses, but I don't think anybody would say that with the Jets. They've had to go through 5 quarterbacks... that's insane. If the Chiefs did that we'd go 1-15. If we were them, we'd basically be down to James Kilian at QB, Roaf and Shields out, and Dee Brown at RB. Vince Lombardi couldn't win with that group.

That Pats are injured all the time, yet they still win. They draft better overall though.

I see what you're saying, though. BTW, KEEP F$CKING DOUBTING VINCE LOMBARDI?! ROFL

Chiefs Pantalones

12-25-2005, 02:19 AM

I just don't think Herm fits what we want in a HC. I mean, that'd be like DV retiring, and us rehiring him back. They are the same coach, practically. Soft as toilet paper, players coach, etc.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 02:38 AM

I just don't think Herm fits what we want in a HC. I mean, that'd be like DV retiring, and us rehiring him back. They are the same coach, practically. Soft as toilet paper, players coach, etc.
ROFL As much as I like and respect DV, is it too late to give him a creative nickname with the word Charmin in it?

kcfanXIII

12-25-2005, 03:10 AM

Yea it would it be like resigning DV for 2 more years.
but than the bill billicheck thing comes in to play...

philfree

12-25-2005, 04:38 AM

DV only crys when he wins........He made Martz contrary to the BS.......If you want this O to be the best like it has been then DV needs to stay. Anyone who can't see that is blinder then my third eye.

PhilFree:arrow:

philfree

12-25-2005, 04:46 AM

The system went to shit when Roaf went down.

It's more than the system. It takes a coach who won't take short cuts and a coach who will demand his offense takes care of details. A coach who will draft Orlando Pace or sign a Willie Roaf......Instead of looking for a QB who shits his pants and takes off running....instead of looking for a WR who is a freak and all you do is play jump ball.....It's very detailed hard work that most coachs don't have the guts and know how to run.

PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe

12-25-2005, 06:19 AM

No it's not. DV's problem is not his knowledge of football. He is obviously a great coach and teacher. His problem is being too soft where he's supposed to be tough with or about some people. His judgement is clouded by his blind loyalty sometimes. Not having the heart to fire GRob or Giunta for example. Stands to reason that Saunders will not be a softy like that.

Yeah, Saunders is a hard-ass. Let's run a fake reverse on 4th and 1 and bench LJ...

DaWolf

12-25-2005, 06:50 AM

I want an offense that has a good OL and will run the ball with LJ, actually utilize gonzo properly, and add a good wideout to the fold and get the ball to him in order to keep the defenses honest and allow gonzo to roam free more. I could care less if that offense is based on the Coryell/Gilman system or not. As long as Hackett or Jimmy Raye stay the hell away from it...

Frankie

12-25-2005, 09:02 AM

Yeah, Saunders is a hard-ass. Let's run a fake reverse on 4th and 1 and bench LJ...If all of those risks would payoff handsomely he would be a true genius, or even god! Some stuff works and some don't. Do you think Shula's every on field decision has worked? No coach is a full cup, and in your "discard everything" mentality you want Saunders to be or to have been absolutely PERFECT, or else! He has been a cup 4/5 full and you always only point out the empty 1/5.

HMc

12-25-2005, 09:14 AM

I've often wondered how much this "system" stuff is legit and how much is BS.

philfree

12-25-2005, 10:35 AM

If the system was so great, one bad player shouldn't have ruined it.
Systems are overrated. Do you really think Robinson's "system" won two Super Bowls?

Yeah when Roaf was out and our O line was banged up for most of the season we sucked so bad on O that we fell all the way to 10th.

PhilFree:arrow:

FringeNC

12-25-2005, 10:49 AM

Players, scheme, and execution within a scheme (coaching), and play-calling all matter.

We already know how to execute the Coryell system. It's the only system our QB knows. He has about two years left. It would be beyond foolish to change systems.

Our players are not going to forget the scheme that DV/AS have implemented. They are veterans and have been in the scheme for years.

If we keep the same scheme/system, we will see how much of the Chiefs' success was because of good play-calling by Saunders.

We really shouldn't be worried about changing systems, because we won't. I tell myself that, then I remember we are dealing with Carl Peterson, so we can throw logic out the window. Who knows what the **** we will do, but if handled properly.....

milkman

12-25-2005, 10:52 AM

Yeah when Roaf was out and our O line was banged up for most of the season we sucked so bad on O that we fell all the way to 10th.

PhilFree:arrow:

And how did our offense fare in the red zone?

Frankie

12-25-2005, 10:55 AM

Yeah when Roaf was out and our O line was banged up for most of the season we sucked so bad on O that we fell all the way to 10th.

PhilFree:arrow:Very cool. :thumb:

philfree

12-25-2005, 10:57 AM

And how did our offense fare in the red zone?

Not as good but at least we could get to the red zone. My point still stands.

PhilFree:arrow:

Frankie

12-25-2005, 10:59 AM

And how did our offense fare in the red zone?Red zone 'O' is not our greatest offensive asset this year anyway. Even with Roaf. But then it was different with a RB perfect for our system by the name of Priest Holmes. As for now we do have a great 20 to 20 Rb, who is in the process of being molded to fit our system.

milkman

12-25-2005, 11:07 AM

Red zone 'O' is not our greatest offensive asset this year anyway. Even with Roaf. But then it was different with a RB perfect for our system by the name of Priest Holmes. As for now we do have a great 20 to 20 Rb, who is in the process of being molded to fit our system.

No.

Our system is being molded to fit his talents.

This O has already evolved into more of a play action/smashmouth style than it was with Priest.

It is starting to look more like the Gibbs/Riggins offense than the Martz/Faulk offense.

The only real adjustment that LJ is making is that he's learning to be more patient.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 11:12 AM

The only real adjustment that LJ is making is that he's learning to be more patient.
The very requirement for being a good Rb in our system. But I do agree that the system will make some adjustments to his running style too. But as a whole it's still a system of quick developing offensive plays.

milkman

12-25-2005, 11:21 AM

The very requirement for being a good Rb in our system. But I do agree that the system will make some adjustments to his running style too. But as a whole it's still a system of quick developing offensive plays.

That's the requirement of any RB in any system.

Extra Point

12-25-2005, 11:30 AM

The thing that is clicking is this ridiculously good running back and offensive line.

That being said, I hope we keep Saunders as OC.
THAT"S A FACK, JACK!

Tribal Warfare

12-25-2005, 02:38 PM

The system went to shit when Roaf went down.

For that reason KC needs to draft one of the top tier OTs in the draft, as I said before either Marcus McNeill and/or Jon Scott should be available to the mid to later portion of the first round.

Rausch

12-25-2005, 02:42 PM

For that reason KC needs to draft one of the top tier OTs in the draft, as I said before either Marcus McNeill and/or Jon Scott should be available to the mid to later portion of the first round.

That still leaves big holes at G and WR...

Skip Towne

12-25-2005, 02:54 PM

Yeah, Saunders is a hard-ass. Let's run a fake reverse on 4th and 1 and bench LJ...
You don't understand. LJ wasn't "ready". :p

Tribal Warfare

12-25-2005, 02:58 PM

That still leaves big holes at G and WR...
Welbourn will move to Shields spot,the RT position was orignally slotted to Sampson.

The need issues should go to FA, because in the draft a team should draft the BAA. That's why I'm pushing for an OT since this a very deep year in that area. The FA's KC should go for are Tripplett/Abraham and Charles Rodgers though Sammie Parker could develop into a #1 type WR.

philfree

12-25-2005, 03:03 PM

No.

Our system is being molded to fit his talents.

This O has already evolved into more of a play action/smashmouth style than it was with Priest.

It is starting to look more like the Gibbs/Riggins offense than the Martz/Faulk offense.

The only real adjustment that LJ is making is that he's learning to be more patient.

Same playbook as before we just call different plays out of it then the Rams and now a little different with LJ instead of Holmes. So I guess you could call it "molding" IMO it's just figuring out which plays our guys run better and then calling those plays. I will say that those sweeps the last few weeks are looking a little more Priest like though. Nobody in the league knows this O better then DV. All you have to do is watch the Games Of The Week and listen to DV on the sidelines to realize what he is. For what ever reason you don't like him as HC any logic or facts that are brought forth in regards to DV you will disregard them. He's far from perfect just like all coaches but he brings some very special things to the table and he has a better resume then HC candidate we could look at.

PhilFree:arrow:

milkman

12-25-2005, 03:44 PM

Same playbook as before we just call different plays out of it then the Rams and now a little different with LJ instead of Holmes. So I guess you could call it "molding" IMO it's just figuring out which plays our guys run better and then calling those plays. I will say that those sweeps the last few weeks are looking a little more Priest like though. Nobody in the league knows this O better then DV. All you have to do is watch the Games Of The Week and listen to DV on the sidelines to realize what he is. For what ever reason you don't like him as HC any logic or facts that are brought forth in regards to DV you will disregard them. He's far from perfect just like all coaches but he brings some very special things to the table and he has a better resume then HC candidate we could look at.

PhilFree:arrow:

Of course they are different plays from the same playbook.

The Gibbs system is just another descendant of Gillman's offense, just like Saunders' system.

And LJ skills are perfectly suited to those sweeps, especially now that he is reading blocks and showing patience.
That sweep was staple of Gibbs playbook with Riggins.

milkman

12-25-2005, 03:49 PM

Same playbook as before we just call different plays out of it then the Rams and now a little different with LJ instead of Holmes. So I guess you could call it "molding" IMO it's just figuring out which plays our guys run better and then calling those plays. I will say that those sweeps the last few weeks are looking a little more Priest like though. Nobody in the league knows this O better then DV. All you have to do is watch the Games Of The Week and listen to DV on the sidelines to realize what he is. For what ever reason you don't like him as HC any logic or facts that are brought forth in regards to DV you will disregard them. He's far from perfect just like all coaches but he brings some very special things to the table and he has a better resume then HC candidate we could look at.

PhilFree:arrow:

As for Dick, I don't like him because I didn't think he really had all that much to do with bringing in the talent that took the Rams to the SB, though I will agree that he and Martz understood fully how to utilize it.

I also don't like him because of his failure to hold his coaches, and some of his players accountable for thier lack of performance.

philfree

12-25-2005, 04:08 PM

As for Dick, I don't like him because I didn't think he really had all that much to do with bringing in the talent that took the Rams to the SB, though I will agree that he and Martz understood fully how to utilize it.

I also don't like him because of his failure to hold his coaches, and some of his players accountable for thier lack of performance.

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. I bet when the door is closed DV isn't soft like alot of folks think. And remember highly emotional people go both ways with their emotions. I also doubt that his players think he's soft when those 3 hour practices are going on.

PhilFree:arrow:

milkman

12-25-2005, 06:32 PM

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. I bet when the door is closed DV isn't soft like alot of folks think. And remember highly emotional people go both ways with their emotions. I also doubt that his players think he's soft when those 3 hour practices are going on.

PhilFree:arrow:

I'm not talking about what goes on behind closed doors.

I'm talking about retaining a DC that sucked ass for 3 years, and crying like a little bitch when he resigned.

I'm talking telling us how McPassOn is "mistake free".

I'm talking about telling us a guy like Eric Hicks is always getting pressure on a QB, which we all know is an absolutely riciculous assertion, and telling us bout his "effort".

Those guys, along with guys like guys like Guinta, Hairston and others, should never have retained their jobs.

Yet, with the exception of Spinner, who had the balls, at least, to leave, here they are.

htismaqe

12-25-2005, 09:19 PM

If all of those risks would payoff handsomely he would be a true genius, or even god! Some stuff works and some don't. Do you think Shula's every on field decision has worked? No coach is a full cup, and in your "discard everything" mentality you want Saunders to be or to have been absolutely PERFECT, or else! He has been a cup 4/5 full and you always only point out the empty 1/5.

That 1/5 wins Super Bowls. The other 4/5 sits at home in January.;

dallaschiefsfan

12-25-2005, 11:15 PM

First...I agree with those who say that AS is gone if he doesn't get the HC job...unless he loses the job to someone so much more qualified than him (like someone of Vermeil's experience and with Superbowl experience).

Who does that leave? I'm going out on a limb...but I think it would be "classic Carl" to make the big pitch to bring Jimmy out of retirement a-la Vermeil. I have nothing to base this on from Carl's end...but if approached, JJ has been nothing but compimentary concerning the Chiefs in his limited comments during pre, post and halftime segments.

While Saunders might stay under such a scenario, it doesn't become critical since JJ could attract quality assistants. Herm Edwards and similar candidates will suffer from Guntheritus--no ability to attract great assitants.

Hammock Parties

12-25-2005, 11:17 PM

JJ doesn't want to coach anymore...

And it's too bad, because he really is a good coach.

Tribal Warfare

12-25-2005, 11:38 PM

Who does that leave? I'm going out on a limb...but I think it would be "classic Carl" to make the big pitch to bring Jimmy out of retirement a-la Vermeil. I have nothing to base this on from Carl's end...but if approached, JJ has been nothing but compimentary concerning the Chiefs in his limited comments during pre, post and halftime segments.

Yeah dude, the reason he's been favorable to the Chiefs standpoint has to pertain to him knowing the Hunts in one fashion or another, since we all know the Hunt family lives in Texas.

Frankie

12-25-2005, 11:41 PM

That 1/5 wins Super Bowls. The other 4/5 sits at home in January.;
Wrong. Show me the "PERFECT" HC, and I show you God. If a HC has that 1/5, he should win the SuperBowl EVERY damn year.

Tribal Warfare

12-25-2005, 11:48 PM

Wrong. Show me the "PERFECT" HC, and I show you God. If a HC has that 1/5, he should win the SuperBowl EVERY damn year.
Dude, Mike Ditka likes his ESPN "expert" commentator role

Frankie

12-25-2005, 11:55 PM

Dude, Mike Ditka likes his ESPN "expert" commentator role
Huh?

Tribal Warfare

12-26-2005, 12:17 AM

Huh?

I guess you didn't get the SNL Superfans reference

htismaqe

12-26-2005, 07:10 AM

Wrong. Show me the "PERFECT" HC, and I show you God. If a HC has that 1/5, he should win the SuperBowl EVERY damn year.

"Perfect"? Try COMPLETE.

DV isn't a complete coach anymore. Neither is Marty.

And neither is Saunders.

Frankie

12-26-2005, 10:59 AM

I guess you didn't get the SNL Superfans referenceI haven't watched SNL in years now, but I now know what you are talking about. "Da Bears!"

Frankie

12-26-2005, 11:05 AM

"Perfect"? Try COMPLETE.

DV isn't a complete coach anymore. Neither is Marty.

And neither is Saunders.I realize the difference between "Perfect" and "Complete" in our argurment. But to me "Complete" personifies that coach who is the 4/5 cup. I agree that Marty and DV are no longer "that" headcoach. But I don't agree with your last sentence here. Simply because there's no way you can be sure. I also cannot guarantee that Saunders will prove to be the HC I'm hoping he'll be. I'm simply saying there are positive parameters to the notion of picking him that are more in number than picking almost any other candidate.

MahiMike

12-26-2005, 12:50 PM

Frankie

12-26-2005, 01:12 PM

This is what's so heartbreaking about this whole Carl/Gunther crap. These poor guys (DV and AS) created something very special with mediocre receivers noless. Fargin defense only had to be average the last 3 years and this team is in 2 AFC Championship games at least.

Now we can look forward to Marty-like teams that rely on FG kickers to win games again. Whoopee! That works great until you run into a Colts juggernaut and get down by 14. Then what?

I'm predicting 10 more years of frustration. Hope I'm wrong... :(DV's hiring of GROb has been directly the Achilles heal of this team. That was the first head scratch I had regarding DV. It was like he had a death wish. So, as much as I like him, don't absolve him from guilt.

That said, I am with you being very afraid of the future you are painting. You are 100% right. With our current 'O' we can be down 2 TDs in the 4th and I still have realistic hope that we can win the game. That's a good feeling. With Marty's offense, that situation was a sure loss.

Mr. Laz

12-26-2005, 01:30 PM

"systems" are overrated.

Players win football games.
disagree pretty completely

the talent level for NFL players is so close for the majority of players that coaching/teaching/system is the single biggest difference maker.

a coach that knows how to pick the players who fit his system and can teach them to maximized their talents is huge.

put them in a system with a coordinator who knows how to get them all involvement and how to keep the other team guessing and you have super bowl potiential.

htismaqe

12-26-2005, 02:19 PM

Getting rid of Vermeil and Saunders DOES NOT GUARANTEE the return of Martyball.

There's other offenses out there that are quite prolific.

milkman

12-26-2005, 03:24 PM

Getting rid of Vermeil and Saunders DOES NOT GUARANTEE the return of Martyball.

There's other offenses out there that are quite prolific.

I really think we need a forum with a football dictionary here, and the first entry should be Martyball.

Martyball=playing not to lose in the playoffs.

Marty had an offense in Cleveland that could score points.

He has a prolific offense in SD.

But he refused/refuses to let them loose when the playoffs arrive, because he's afraid of making mistakes.

His playoff mantra.

"Minimize mistakes".

Frankie

12-26-2005, 06:50 PM

disagree pretty completely

the talent level for NFL players is so close for the majority of players that coaching/teaching/system is the single biggest difference maker.

a coach that knows how to pick the players who fit his system and can teach them to maximized their talents is huge.

put them in a system with a coordinator who knows how to get them all involvement and how to keep the other team guessing and you have super bowl potiential.Correct. As an example, Denver's RBs don't seem to do much when they go to other teams.

milkman

12-26-2005, 06:55 PM

Correct. As an example, Denver's RBs don't seem to do much when they go to other teams.

Clinton Portis and Reuben Dreughns have done pretty good.

Who else has left?

KCBOSS1

12-26-2005, 08:41 PM

"systems" are overrated.

Players win football games.

Really, tell that to Mike Shanahan, Jake Plummer and any denver HB with a heart beat. You sound like Terrel Davis on the NFL network. He gets mad every time every Denver HB crosses 1000 yards....every year. I agree that you have to have good players. But good systems are really important. I think that a good system has made just above average players in New England superbowl champions over the last few years.

Hammock Parties

12-26-2005, 09:07 PM

New England's awesome defensive system looked like shit most of the year.

Why? Shitty players.

milkman

12-26-2005, 09:26 PM

Really, tell that to Mike Shanahan, Jake Plummer and any denver HB with a heart beat. You sound like Terrel Davis on the NFL network. He gets mad every time every Denver HB crosses 1000 yards....every year. I agree that you have to have good players. But good systems are really important. I think that a good system has made just above average players in New England superbowl champions over the last few years.

Richard Seymour, Teddy Breuski, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinnest, etc.

These guys are all talented players.

They have a good system, but they have, throughout their run, had above average talent as their nucleus.

They just get lost in the Bill Bellichick/Tom Brady knob polishing.

htismaqe

12-26-2005, 09:34 PM

Richard Seymour, Teddy Breuski, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinnest, etc.

These guys are all talented players.

They have a good system, but they have, throughout their run, had above average talent as their nucleus.

They just get lost in the Bill Bellichick/Tom Brady knob polishing.

McGinest, Seymour, Ty Warren, and Vince Wilfork were all 1st-round picks. And they're all linemen (McGinest is more of utility player).

We have one first rounder on our line.

This isn't magic.