According to Lebo on 810...

[Imon Yourside]

Butch Davis has been spotted at arrowhead today, wtf? NO!

[Mr. Laz]

:deevee: :deevee:


gawd please no!!!



maybe as DC?

[Sully]

There has been a knife spotted at my throat. COincidentally, this spotting came moments after reading this post.

[mlyonsd]

Let's just hope he was in town for some BBQ and stopped in to pay his respects to DV.

[SBK]

I have a good friend, and my brother in law that are die hard Browns fans. When I told them Butch was rumored to be heading to KC they both fell off the couch laughing.

[Mecca]

I'm sure they're going to interview more than 1 guy, so calm down.

[The Bad Guy]

It would be really, really difficult to passionately follow this team if Butch Davis is picked as the head coach.

[Mecca]

Cleveland made the playoffs as many times under him as we did under Vermiel.........

[The Bad Guy]

Cleveland made the playoffs as many times under him as we did under Vermiel.........

So what does that prove?

[dirk digler]

Gawd no. I knew CP likes Butch but I really hope that he is not our first choice.

[Mr. Laz]

Cleveland made the playoffs as many times under him as we did under Vermiel.........
yea if you like zero playoffs appearances it opens up the possible HC candidates to the Nth degree.


heck, hire me ... i promise to get us to the playoffs as many times as Dick Vermeil did.

[Chan93lx50]

Ahhh **** no!

[|Zach|]

I hear Hugh Douglas is on his way from the airport.

[Imon Yourside]

Carl got his Dick, then turned Butch! Mass Suicide IS an option I suppose.

[Mecca]

yea if you like zero playoffs appearances it opens up the possible HC candidates to the Nth degree.


heck, hire me ... i promise to get us to the playoffs as many times as Dick Vermeil did.

They both made it once.......not none. Let's also remember the guy was saddled with Tim Couch and being the GM too. Which was most of his problem, he wouldn't have that kind of power here. Not to mention that was a horrible team when he took over.

I just think you guys are overreacting. Gregg Williams was every bit as bad of a head coach as Butch Davis yet people here love him. Hell Butch got in the playoffs once Gregg never did.

[dirk digler]

I hear Hugh Douglas is on his way from the airport.

Phil/WPI is reporting that Butch Davis is coming in for an interview as well. :D

[nascher]

according to my sources Butch Davis will be signed in 10 minutes.

[Imon Yourside]

I just think you guys are overreacting. Gregg Williams was every bit as bad of a head coach as Butch Davis yet people here love him. Hell Butch got in the playoffs once Gregg never did.

True Dat! Which is exactly the reason I don't want either one of those tards.

[Mecca]

I think Butch Davis is a good coach who was bad at being a GM. Not to mention coming in being stuck with Tim Couch doesn't really do wonders for your career.

[dirk digler]

They both made it once.......not none. Let's also remember the guy was saddled with Tim Couch and being the GM too. Which was most of his problem, he wouldn't have that kind of power here. Not to mention that was a horrible team when he took over.

I just think you guys are overreacting. Gregg Williams was every bit as bad of a head coach as Butch Davis yet people here love him. Hell Butch got in the playoffs once Gregg never did.

Yep. Plus the players in Buffalo hated him and I hear he isn't the most liked coach in Washington either.

Butch biggest problem was that he was a GM and he had major power struggles within the organization. He has semi-rejuvanted his image with his gig on Playbook this past season.

[The Bad Guy]

Yep. Plus the players in Buffalo hated him and I hear he isn't the most liked coach in Washington either.

Butch biggest problem was that he was a GM and he had major power struggles within the organization. He has semi-rejuvanted his image with his gig on Playbook this past season.

Well what you heard about him in Washington is wrong. Players love him. I know a player on the Skins' D and he says he would run through a brick wall for Williams.

[Brock]

I will definitely lose interest in this team if this is the best they can do.

[DTLB58]

It would be really, really difficult to passionately follow this team if Butch Davis is picked as the head coach.

Yes it would.

[Mecca]

If you guys think Jeff Fisher is the only choice, you're probably going to be heavily disappointed.

[ROYC75]

OMG... I hope he is here for the NFL Network , doing an interview about who CP wants to hire.

[dirk digler]

Well what you heard about him in Washington is wrong. Players love him. I know a player on the Skins' D and he says he would run through a brick wall for Williams.

Thanks. It was probably just rumors and probably his reputation followed him from Buffalo.

[ROYC75]

If you guys think Jeff Fisher is the only choice, you're probably going to be heavily disappointed.

Fisher would do well here with who we have.........

[Mecca]

Fisher would do well here with who we have.........

I don't disagree with that, I just think it's an unlikely scenario for him to end up here.

[RINGLEADER]

Hiring Butch Davis will cost this team at least four games next year...and eight the following...

Seriously, why not just hire Dave Wannstedt?

[dirk digler]

I don't disagree with that, I just think it's an unlikely scenario for him to end up here.

I agree I haven't heard anything coming from the Titans or Fisher that he will not be back next year.

[siberian khatru]

Why is Butch Davis such a zero? He took over a 3-13 team and went 7-9 and then 9-7, made the playoffs and lost by 3 @ Pittsburgh.

Then they promptly went 5-11 and 4-12.

How much of that was Davis' coaching, and how much was his job as GM? Did being GM detract from his coaching? Is there something inherent in his coaching philosophy that reeks?

I don't know, I'm just asking.

We don't watch ANY of these other coaches as intently as we watch Chiefs coaches.

[RedThat]

What is wrong with Butch Davis? Honestly guys. Please tell me why people on here don't like him that much?

[Brock]

Why is Butch Davis such a zero? He took over a 3-13 team and went 7-9 and then 9-7, made the playoffs and lost by 3 @ Pittsburgh.

Then they promptly went 5-11 and 4-12.

How much of that was Davis' coaching, and how much was his job as GM? Did being GM detract from his coaching? Is there something inherent in his coaching philosophy that reeks?

I don't know, I'm just asking.

We don't watch ANY of these other coaches as intently as we watch Chiefs coaches.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/don_banks/11/30/browns.breakdown/

[siberian khatru]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/don_banks/11/30/browns.breakdown/

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for.

Pretty persuasive to me. Put me in the "No" camp on Davis.

[dirk digler]

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for.

Pretty persuasive to me. Put me in the "No" camp on Davis.

I think that comes from being the GM/coach. Here he would be just coach

Just to clarify I don't want Davis.

[Mecca]

None of that surprises me, he had a massive ego coming out of the job he'd done with the Canes. That job probably taught him numerous lessons about how to handle players and knocked his ego down several pegs.

[Mecca]

I'll clarify, I'm not saying I want him to be coach or saying I'd be on board with that call. I'm just saying alot of people are having a serious overreaction to this.

If you're going to support guys like Gregg Williams, Butch Davis was a better head coach than he was in their first stints.

[Brock]

None of that surprises me, he had a massive ego coming out of the job he'd done with the Canes. That job probably taught him numerous lessons about how to handle players and knocked his ego down several pegs.

It would be Gunther Cunningham part 2. They're both paranoid freaks.

[Imon Yourside]

Let's just face it, with Davis or Williams were not going to get Belicheck. That is one winner out of a Chitload of failed 2 time coaches. If a coach failed miserably his 1st go around chances are it won't get much better Wannstedt, Turner. We need a somewhat proven coach or totally fresh blood.

[Mecca]

It would be Gunther Cunningham part 2. They're both paranoid freaks.

How's he feel about beards and ripped sleeves?

[jiveturkey]

I've usually trusted Petro's opinion and he's sold on Davis.

I'm not saying that it's the best option but I don't know who is. I don't want to give up possible draft pics for Edwards and Williams doesn't want to come here and would fall into the same category as Davis anyway.

[B2chiefsfan]

:bang::bang::bang: Butch Davis

[Mecca]

I've usually trusted Petro's opinion and he's sold on Davis.

I'm not saying that it's the best option but I don't know who is. I don't want to give up possible draft pics for Edwards and Williams doesn't want to come here and would fall into the same category as Davis anyway.

Edwards is the only one who the league would look at as us possibly doing something wrong. Williams is a DC there so it's a promotion, no foul there.

[dirk digler]

I've usually trusted Petro's opinion and he's sold on Davis.



Petro likes Davis?

What were his reasons?

[Brock]

I've usually trusted Petro's opinion and he's sold on Davis.

I'm not saying that it's the best option but I don't know who is. I don't want to give up possible draft pics for Edwards and Williams doesn't want to come here and would fall into the same category as Davis anyway.

You don't have to give up draft picks for any coach. It is cash compensation only.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

somebody has to drive the purple limo

[jiveturkey]

Petro likes Davis?

What were his reasons?
He probably learned from his experience in Cleveland, he'll have a personell department behind him, he's defensive minded. There were a lot of other reasons but I don't remember them right off hand.

He mentioned Norv Turner as a good choice at O-Cord as well. If he's fired of course.

[Mecca]

You don't have to give up draft picks for any coach. It is cash compensation only.

The league could still take your picks for tampering, the other team just wouldn't get them........

[Brock]

The league could still take your picks for tampering, the other team just wouldn't get them........

It is not tampering if you call the other team up and ask them what it would take to get that coach they wish they never hired to begin with.

[jiveturkey]

You don't have to give up draft picks for any coach. It is cash compensation only.That's not what everyone is saying.
I haven't seen the rule in writing but the media seems to disagree with you.

[Mecca]

If we lose any kind of picks for a coach it's dumb as all hell. Players win games, we can't be giving up picks.

[Brock]

That's not what everyone is saying.
I haven't seen the rule in writing but the media seems to disagree with you.

According to NFL rules, draft picks cannot be used to compensate for coaching hires. I don't really care what the media says about it.

[Mr. Laz]

You don't have to give up draft picks for any coach. It is cash compensation only.
we gave two 3rd round picks to st. louis for Dick Vermiel

Washington gave us a 3rd and 4th rd picks for marty

tampa bay gave the raiders like two 1st rd picks plus more for chucky

the pats gave the jets a draft pick for billichek

the jets gave the pats a pick for parcells

[Brock]

we gave two 3rd round pick to st. louis for Dick Vermiel


Washington gave us a 3rd and 4th rd pick for marty


tampa bay gave the raiders like two 1sts round etc for chucky


the pats gave the jets a draft pick for billichek


the jets gave the pats a pick for parcells

And all of those things led to the rules being changed to prohibit it.

Back at ya.

[siberian khatru]

we gave two 3rd round pick to st. louis for Dick Vermiel


Washington gave us a 3rd and 4th rd pick for marty


tampa bay gave the raiders like two 1sts round etc for chucky


the pats gave the jets a draft pick for billichek


the jets gave the pats a pick for parcells

Tags changed the rule after the Gruden deal.

There seems to be confusion and disagreement, however, whether there's some kind of loophole or what the definition of "compensation" is.

[jiveturkey]

we gave two 3rd round pick to st. louis for Dick Vermiel


Washington gave us a 3rd and 4th rd pick for marty


tampa bay gave the raiders like two 1sts round etc for chucky


the pats gave the jets a draft pick for billichek


the jets gave the pats a pick for parcellsIt's a newer rule and I think that it's actually called the Gruden rule.

I still haven't seen it in writing but I know that there's some sort of rule out there.

[Mecca]

we gave two 3rd round pick to st. louis for Dick Vermiel


Washington gave us a 3rd and 4th rd pick for marty


tampa bay gave the raiders like two 1sts round etc for chucky


the pats gave the jets a draft pick for billichek


the jets gave the pats a pick for parcells

There's suppose to be a rule that was put in after Gruden that you can't trade draft picks for coach's. But there is some form of a hole in there where the league can take your picks away if they view what you did as wrong. Don't be surprised if we hire someone like Edwards, if the league bends us over and takes picks from us.

[siberian khatru]

ROFL

Got it yet, Laz?

ROFL

[Mr. Laz]

Back at ya.
geez ... chill


if the nfl has changed the rule ... fine, but it used to be common practice.

[Mr. Laz]

ROFL

Got it yet, Laz?

ROFL
for real ... ROFL ROFL

[Mr. Laz]

There's suppose to be a rule that was put in after Gruden that you can't trade draft picks for coach's. But there is some form of a hole in there where the league can take your picks away if they view what you did as wrong. Don't be surprised if we hire someone like Edwards, if the league bends us over and takes picks from us.
didn't the picks we got from washington for marty happen AFTER gruden as well?

[siberian khatru]

didn't the picks we got from washington for marty happen AFTER gruden as well?

Nope. Marty to Washington was 2001.

Gruden to TB was 2002.

[jiveturkey]

Has anyone seen the rule in writing?

I would love to see it and post it with a sticky at the top of the main page.



Is anyone listening to Keitzman? This guy is really losing it.

"Bob Stoops is by far the best option available"

[siberian khatru]

Is anyone listening to Keitzman? This guy is really losing it.

"Bob Stoops is by far the best option available"


:shake:

[Imon Yourside]

Yeah I'm listening to KK, and I somewhat agree. Of course I have lost it.

[Mecca]

Has anyone seen the rule in writing?

I would love to see it and post it with a sticky at the top of the main page.



Is anyone listening to Keitzman? This guy is really losing it.

"Bob Stoops is by far the best option available"

Yes, It's cracking me up to no end. If he really thinks Stoops is the best coach in america that can be hired, as he said, I feel for him. Ferentz is a better choice if you want someone from the college game. Stoops has massive failure written on him if you ask me.

[Mr. Laz]

OMG... I hope he is here for the NFL Network , doing an interview about who CP wants to hire.

nice call ... maybe he's here on NFL Network business



that's the story i'm clinging to :harumph:

[Mr. Laz]

Nope. Marty to Washington was 2001.

Gruden to TB was 2002.
:thumb:


thanks for the answer without the brow beat :D

[jiveturkey]

Yeah I'm listening to KK, and I somewhat agree. Of course I have lost it.
I just saw on another board that Stoops was supposedly in Carl's suite during Sunday's game.

[Mecca]

KK is stumping for Stoops so he can try to win Kstate a big 12 title..........

[siberian khatru]

:thumb:


thanks for the answer without the brow beat :D

No problem. Stupid f*cker.

[Imon Yourside]

I just saw on another board that Stoops was supposedly in Carl's suite during Sunday's game.

Stop I'll have a heart attack! I would have a Carl lovefest for an entire year if that happened. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN!

[FringeNC]

Why is Butch Davis such a zero? He took over a 3-13 team and went 7-9 and then 9-7, made the playoffs and lost by 3 @ Pittsburgh.

Then they promptly went 5-11 and 4-12.

How much of that was Davis' coaching, and how much was his job as GM? Did being GM detract from his coaching? Is there something inherent in his coaching philosophy that reeks?

I don't know, I'm just asking.

We don't watch ANY of these other coaches as intently as we watch Chiefs coaches.

From an article posted here last week, it appears that Davis lost that team Mackovic-style. And how many times did that happen to Mackovic? Damn near everywhere he coached.

[Brock]

No problem. Stupid f*cker.

ROFL

[Imon Yourside]

KK is stumping for Stoops so he can try to win Kstate a big 12 title..........

Nah, I personally don't think he has liked Stoops since he left craphattan. Would you rather he went after Carrol?

[dirk digler]

KK is in full meltdown mode. But he has made some good points. DV made like $10,000 a day and we only went to 1 playoff game. Not good enough.

[Mecca]

Stop I'll have a heart attack! I would have a Carl lovefest for an entire year if that happened. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN!

It's one thing to hire Ferentz who has an idea of the Pro game and knows pro coaches. If you hire Stoops, he has no NFL coaching tree, all the assistants are going to be college coaches too. Hiring him could leave us with 3 years of 3-13, just because his staff has no experience in the NFL game.

[Brock]

I just think Bob Stoops is a horrible idea. I hope I'm wrong.

[jiveturkey]

Nah, I personally don't think he has liked Stoops since he left craphattan. Would you rather he went after Carrol?How is Stoops different from Davis? Wasn't Davis great in College?

[siberian khatru]

From an article posted here last week, it appears that Davis lost that team Mackovic-style. And how many times did that happen to Mackovic? Damn near everywhere he coached.

Not to dredge up ancient history here, but I was very supportive of the Mackovic firing at that time. I hated his offenses; the only reason we made the playoffs that year was a bunch of fluky special teams plays.

The error wasn't in firing Mackovic; that team was headed straight back to 6-10 territory if he'd stayed. The error was in hiring his replacement.

I think the same situation applies currently. Losing DV shouldn't be the end of the world. But it could be if Carl makes the wrong hire.

[Imon Yourside]

[QUOTE=Mecca]It's one thing to hire Ferentz who has an idea of the Pro game and knows pro coaches.QUOTE]

How did his team do in there bowl?

[Mecca]

How is Stoops different from Davis? Wasn't Davis great in College?

Well, Davis had NFL experience before he went to college. He coached with Jimmy Johnson in Dallas on their great teams. Stoops has 0 NFL experience doing anything. I still say Ferentz is a better choice than Stoops at this point.

[Mecca]

[QUOTE=Mecca]It's one thing to hire Ferentz who has an idea of the Pro game and knows pro coaches.QUOTE]

How did his team do in there bowl?

Explain to me how that's relevant, Nick Sabans team lost their bowl game last year. Are you gonna honestly sit there and tell me you wouldn't love to have Nick Saban right now?

[Imon Yourside]

How is Stoops different from Davis? Wasn't Davis great in College?

From what I know Stoops is a great Leader, and contrary to that the article i read about Davis in Cleveland portrays him as the opposite.

[siberian khatru]

It's one thing to hire Ferentz who has an idea of the Pro game and knows pro coaches. If you hire Stoops, he has no NFL coaching tree, all the assistants are going to be college coaches too. Hiring him could leave us with 3 years of 3-13, just because his staff has no experience in the NFL game.

I think that's exactly right.

[Imon Yourside]

Explain to me how that's relevant, Nick Sabans team lost their bowl game last year. Are you gonna honestly sit there and tell me you wouldn't love to have Nick Saban right now?

I think Iowa got destroyed this year, I don't think that ever happened to Saban.

[tk13]

How is Stoops different from Davis? Wasn't Davis great in College?
Davis was the DC for some of those early 90's Cowboy teams under Jimmy Johnson... he had NFL experience, on some really good teams.

[jiveturkey]

Well, Davis had NFL experience before he went to college. He coached with Jimmy Johnson in Dallas on their great teams. Stoops has 0 NFL experience doing anything. I still say Ferentz is a better choice than Stoops at this point.That's what I'm saying. Davis is probably a better choice that Stoops. I don't know anything about Ferentz so I won't comment on him.

Williams has a simialr background to Davis, which puts him equal with Davis IMO. All of the guys that we're fired today can't be considered a better option at this point.

Edwards has a handful of flaws that are comparable to DV's flaws.


Who is the clear cut #1 option?

[Mecca]

I'd sit here and defend Ferentz to you, and everything he's done at Iowa and what makes him a great canidate. But it's been discussed at nauseum on this board. I'll let you use the search function to find those things. Or one of the Iowa brethern on this board can inform you better than myself.

[FringeNC]

Not to dredge up ancient history here, but I was very supportive of the Mackovic firing at that time. I hated his offenses; the only reason we made the playoffs that year was a bunch of fluky special teams plays.

The error wasn't in firing Mackovic; that team was headed straight back to 6-10 territory if he'd stayed. The error was in hiring his replacement.

I think the same situation applies currently. Losing DV shouldn't be the end of the world. But it could be if Carl makes the wrong hire.

Mackovic deserved to be fired, and I'd guess so did Davis in Cleveland. The players absolutely loathed him.

[Imon Yourside]

I'd sit here and defend Ferentz to you, and everything he's done at Iowa and what makes him a great canidate. But it's been discussed at nauseum on this board. I'll let you use the search function to find those things. Or one of the Iowa brethern on this board can inform you better than myself.

I have been paying attention, however nothing has swayed me to think he will be a great NFL coach.

[siberian khatru]

Mackovic deserved to be fired, and I'd guess so did Davis in Cleveland. The players absolutely loathed him.

Yep. Things are bad when you make the playoffs, and the next day a bunch of players go to the owner's house and plead for him to fire the coach.

[Mecca]

Bob Stoops has Steve Spurrier written all over him.

[Imon Yourside]

This whole point is moot anyways, there is ZERO chance he will hire a college coach. We will get an NFL retread.

[DTLB58]

I have been paying attention, however nothing has swayed me to think he will be a great NFL coach.

Nobody really knows. It's just a matter of opinion. I just hope he gets the chance to prove one of us right.

[Mr. Laz]

No problem. Stupid f*cker.
:deevee: :sulk:

http://img278.exs.cx/img278/9827/goawaynuclearfinger5dg.jpg










ROFL

[58-4ever]

Stoops isn't as bad of a choice as some people think. 3 national championship games in 5 years. Even with the two losses, he is 12-4 against top ten teams. He is an outstanding evaluator of talent, and always has his players playing in the right spots. His teams don't miss tackles. He is a defensive-minded coach who is young, fiery, and has an extreme disdain for losing. On top of that, his players fear and respect him.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Not to dredge up ancient history here, but I was very supportive of the Mackovic firing at that time. I hated his offenses; the only reason we made the playoffs that year was a bunch of fluky special teams plays.

The error wasn't in firing Mackovic; that team was headed straight back to 6-10 territory if he'd stayed. The error was in hiring his replacement.

I think the same situation applies currently. Losing DV shouldn't be the end of the world. But it could be if Carl makes the wrong hire.

Worse than that is a team that hasn't been a winner in 15 years, Mackovic gets them there, makes them winners, and they call a meeting with the owner and tell him who they want as coach.

Gary Barbaro, Gary Green and Nick Lowry deserved nothing from Lamar.

They fleeced Lamar on that one.

[htismaqe]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/don_banks/11/30/browns.breakdown/

Not to defend Davis or anything, but I doubt this would carry over to KC.

Spying on the locker room, lying to everyone, and generally being a despot are CARL PETERSON'S job.

:D

[htismaqe]

I think Iowa got destroyed this year, I don't think that ever happened to Saban.

Iowa lost by 7. They hardly got destroyed.

They put up 346 passing yards on the #7 defense in the nation.

The comment about Saban is so ****ing dumb it doesn't even deserve a response. Every coach faces a blowout loss once in a while...

[CoMoChief]

I'm sure they're going to interview more than 1 guy, so calm down.


The fact that hes even considered for the Chiefs head coaching job is enough to take my anger out on my dog.

[REST STOP HOOLIGAN]

I'm sure they're going to interview more than 1 guy, so calm down.

This would be one step too much! This guy will eat the locker room from the inside out.



SEE: TIM COUCH

[milkman]

Worse than that is a team that hasn't been a winner in 15 years, Mackovic gets them there, makes them winners, and they call a meeting with the owner and tell him who they want as coach.

Gary Barbaro, Gary Green and Nick Lowry deserved nothing from Lamar.

They fleeced Lamar on that one.

Didn't these guys go to Lamar to ask/demand that Ganz be promoted to OC?

They didn't go there to get rid of MacKovic, that was Lamar's decision, figuring that if the players felt that way about him, he'd make a great HC?

[WilliamTheIrish]

Didn't these guys go to Lamar to ask/demand that Ganz be promoted to OC?

They didn't go there to get rid of MacKovic, that was Lamar's decision, figuring that if the players felt that way about him, he'd make a great HC?

It's been years, and I'm going from memory, so bear with me if I'm wrong.

After getting waxed in the 86 playoffs, the players held a meeting at Barbaro's place and, together with Gary Green and (the guy who kicked a lot of meaningless FG's) Nick Lowry, told Lamar that losing Gansz as the coach of the special teams would kill morale. Kill the team.

I know that Ganzs had received an offer, but I can't remember where.

Lamar bought this charade. Why? I have no idea. The team had reached the playoffs for the 1st time since 1971 and the players basically told Lamar that losing Gansz would cause a collapse of the team.

Not withstanding that a team of perrenial losers had just won a playoff spot under Mackovic. Without a real QB. (They rotated Kenny and Blackledge- when one had the hot hand, he stayed in. Mack was not afraid to yank their asses when they screwed up.)

I know I'm missing some details that are essential. So if my memory has failed me, I apologize.

[milkman]

It's been years, and I'm going from memory, so bear with me if I'm wrong.

After getting waxed in the 86 playoffs, the players held a meeting at Barbaro's place and, together with Gary Green and (the guy who kicked a lot of meaningless FG's) Nick Lowry, told Lamar that losing Gansz as the coach of the special teams would kill morale. Kill the team.

I know that Ganzs had received an offer, but I can't remember where.

Lamar bought this charade. Why? I have no idea. The team had reached the playoffs for the 1st time since 1971 and the players basically told Lamar that losing Gansz would cause a collapse of the team.

Not withstanding that a team of perrenial losers had just won a playoff spot under Mackovic. Without a real QB. (They rotated Kenny and Blackledge- when one had the hot hand, he stayed in. Mack was not afraid to yank their asses when they screwed up.)

I know I'm missing some details that are essential. So if my memory has failed me, I apologize.

Thanks.

Out here in Cal, it was hard to get any credible info at that time.

[Calcountry]

Carl got his Dick, then turned Butch! Mass Suicide IS an option I suppose.Option I, is this going to be some new offense? :D

[siberian khatru]

It's been years, and I'm going from memory, so bear with me if I'm wrong.

After getting waxed in the 86 playoffs, the players held a meeting at Barbaro's place and, together with Gary Green and (the guy who kicked a lot of meaningless FG's) Nick Lowry, told Lamar that losing Gansz as the coach of the special teams would kill morale. Kill the team.

I know that Ganzs had received an offer, but I can't remember where.

Lamar bought this charade. Why? I have no idea. The team had reached the playoffs for the 1st time since 1971 and the players basically told Lamar that losing Gansz would cause a collapse of the team.

Not withstanding that a team of perrenial losers had just won a playoff spot under Mackovic. Without a real QB. (They rotated Kenny and Blackledge- when one had the hot hand, he stayed in. Mack was not afraid to yank their asses when they screwed up.)

I know I'm missing some details that are essential. So if my memory has failed me, I apologize.


It wasn't Green and Barbaro. They were gone by 86. Lowery was one of them.:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/mike_fish/news/2002/11/15/fish_straight_shooting/

The last time Mackovic's players protested his actions, some 16 years ago, Kansas City Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt sided with the players and fired him.

Hunt probably had had enough of Mackovic, anyhow. But even now, it’s hard overlooking the role of the players and Frank Gansz, an ambitious assistant who ended up with the head job.

I come with the perspective of having been part of the Kansas City newspaper’s coverage of the Chiefs in 1986. That season, which was Mackovic’s fourth in K.C., the Chiefs improved to 10-6 and made their first playoff appearance in 15 years. But days after a playoff loss to the New York Jets, Hunt drove to the home of place-kicker Nick Lowery for a meeting with him and seven other players, including Pro Bowlers Deron Cherry, Art Still and Albert Lewis.

The postseason turmoil erupted when defensive coordinator Walt Corey was offered a job with the Buffalo Bills, followed by the resignation of Gansz, a nonstop yell-leader who oversaw special teams. Within hours of huddling with the players, Hunt fired Mackovic and handed the job to Gansz, whom I later reported had fibbed about his military and coaching background and who himself was gone two seasons later after compiling an 8-22-1 record.

Behind his back, some K.C. coaches referred to Mackovic as Mouse-ovic. They spoke of him as being whiney and unwilling to take blame when the offense, his specialty, faltered.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Thanks Sib kat,

Lowry was the player rep. That's why his name stuck with me.

[BigMeatballDave]

They both made it once.......not none. Let's also remember the guy was saddled with Tim Couch and being the GM too. Which was most of his problem, he wouldn't have that kind of power here. Not to mention that was a horrible team when he took over.

I just think you guys are overreacting. Gregg Williams was every bit as bad of a head coach as Butch Davis yet people here love him. Hell Butch got in the playoffs once Gregg never did.Yup. Not that I'd really like to have him, but I wouldn't cry about it. The Browns have little talent compared to KC. Their O-line was shit...

[BigMeatballDave]

Why is Butch Davis such a zero? He took over a 3-13 team and went 7-9 and then 9-7, made the playoffs and lost by 3 @ Pittsburgh.

Then they promptly went 5-11 and 4-12.

How much of that was Davis' coaching, and how much was his job as GM? Did being GM detract from his coaching? Is there something inherent in his coaching philosophy that reeks?

I don't know, I'm just asking.

We don't watch ANY of these other coaches as intently as we watch Chiefs coaches.I think coaches playing GM is a bad thing. Look at Seattle. Holmgren gave up his GM duties, look at how successful they became...

[BigMeatballDave]

Not to dredge up ancient history here, but I was very supportive of the Mackovic firing at that time. I hated his offenses; the only reason we made the playoffs that year was a bunch of fluky special teams plays.

It seemed like we were blocking a FG or a punt every week...

[Dayze]

Lebo is a near-sighted, bald version of KK.

Both, are douche bags.