Kobe, 45, 48,50, 45!!! [Archive]

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 02:08 AM

Kobe! 17, 18, 19, 17!

Man he sure can seduce those teenagers.

17 is the age of consent in Colorado last time I looked.

But, isn't it weird how Kobe's stats are very similar to Jordans(PPG, RPG, APG) and yet you don't hear anyone saying that Jordan wasn't a team player, didn't pass the ball, had many affairs, has a big gambling addiction etc...

I'm just sayin, standards of treatment vary from person to person. We all have our faults. Some of us are just held more acountable to them than others.

tk13

01-10-2006, 02:23 AM

Actually early in Jordan's career they did say he wasn't a team player. Hence "The Jordan Rules". It wasn't until Phil Jackson came along that he started to shed that. But honestly, I don't care where Kobe sticks his prickly porcupine, I was just making a joke.

grandllama

01-10-2006, 02:26 AM

17 is the age of consent in Colorado last time I looked.

But, isn't it weird how Kobe's stats are very similar to Jordans(PPG, RPG, APG) and yet you don't hear anyone saying that Jordan wasn't a team player, didn't pass the ball, had many affairs, has a big gambling addiction etc...

I'm just sayin, standards of treatment vary from person to person. We all have our faults. Some of us are just held more acountable to them than others.

eh, its just because Kobe is a prick. MJ had charisma.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 02:37 AM

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 02:39 AM

eh, its just because Kobe is a prick. MJ had charisma.

Jordan is a prick too. Don't kid yourself.

tk13

01-10-2006, 02:41 AM

You'd think that someone in their 10th season wouldn't be considered "early" in their career.
Phil Jackson came along around MJ's 7th season I believe. I'd have to look it up. 90 or 91. MJ was drafted in 84.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 02:47 AM

Phil Jackson came along around MJ's 7th season I believe. I'd have to look it up. 90 or 91. MJ was drafted in 84.

Phil Jackson came along to Kobe in his 4th season. Still does not have a damn thing to do with perception of people.

Kobe isn't doing anything that any other professional basketball player has not done before him. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just sayin...

tk13

01-10-2006, 02:50 AM

Phil Jackson came along to Kobe in his 4th season. Still does not have a damn thing to do with perception of people.

Kobe isn't doing anything that any other professional basketball player has not done before him. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just sayin...
I'm not sure what you're getting at then. 10th season of what? What perception? Michael Jordan bought into what Phil Jackson was selling and the Bulls took off... I'm not quite getting your point.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 03:02 AM

I'm not sure what you're getting at then. 10th season of what? What perception? Michael Jordan bought into what Phil Jackson was selling and the Bulls took off... I'm not quite getting your point.

Kobe is in his tenth season. He isn't in the early part of his career. Jordan didn't shed his faults early in his career, he still has them. The public did though with their perception of him.

I'm saying that the perception of Kobe vs. perception of Jordan is very different. Yet, they are very similar.

Double standards are just a part of life.

Simplex3

01-10-2006, 03:05 AM

It's basketball. It isn't a team sport anyway.

tk13

01-10-2006, 03:13 AM

Ultra Peanut

01-10-2006, 03:17 AM

tk13

01-10-2006, 03:19 AM

There's that too.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 03:29 AM

That's because he won six rings. And never had the huge clashes and drama with other star players on his team while doing it.

And really, there are other examples... at this point I'm not sure how many times Kobe would put the final shot of an NBA finals game up to Steve Kerr.

Kobe has won 3. You think it would be easy getting along with Shaq? Shaq isn't exactly humble, you know. They butted heads, so what. That happens on every team to some degree.

Jordan couldn't win a championship without Scottie, Kobe can't win one without Shaq. Once again, very similar.

Ultra Peanut

01-10-2006, 03:31 AM

Oh my God. Did you just compare Scottie frickin' Pippen to Shaquille O'Neal?!

tk13

01-10-2006, 03:42 AM

Kobe has won 3. You think it would be easy getting along with Shaq? Shaq isn't exactly humble, you know. They butted heads, so what. That happens on every team to some degree.

Jordan couldn't win a championship without Scottie, Kobe can't win one without Shaq. Once again, very similar.
To quote Willy Wonka... strike that, reverse it. Scottie Pippen didn't win squat without Michael Jordan. I actually like Pippen, he was a good player, but Shaq is the most dominant player of this generation. Big, big difference. When Michael retired the first time, down went the Bulls. When he came back they started winning again, with a completely different cast of players.

I like Kobe, I think he's a great great player. But to even be chasing the ghost of Jordan, or even have anyone attempt to, is a huge mistake. He will never be Michael Jordan. Michael won 6 rings and could've won 7 or 8 at least if he didn't retire for two years. He was at such a different level, it's almost impossible to get there.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 03:45 AM

Oh my God. Did you just compare Scottie frickin' Pippen to Shaquille O'Neal?!

As a teammate, yes. As a player, no.

Scottie wasn't a bad player himself. Top 50 of all time IIRC. He helped Jordan win a few championships. Same can be said for the results Kobe and Shaq.

Ultra Peanut

01-10-2006, 03:45 AM

Michael won 6 rings and could've won 7 or 8 at least if he didn't retire for two years.Exactly. And I say this as someone who hated him and rooted for the Pacers during that time.

Scottie wasn't a bad player himself. Top 50 of all time IIRC. He helped Jordan win a few championships. Same can be said for the results Kobe and Shaq.That's fine, but I still think you're off the mark with your comparisons.

Kobe is to Scottie as Shaq is to Michael would be a far more applicable analogy than the Kobe-MJ one.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 03:50 AM

To quote Willy Wonka... strike that, reverse it. Scottie Pippen didn't win squat without Michael Jordan. I actually like Pippen, he was a good player, but Shaq is the most dominant player of this generation. Big, big difference. When Michael retired the first time, down went the Bulls. When he came back they started winning again, with a completely different cast of players.

I like Kobe, I think he's a great great player. But to even be chasing the ghost of Jordan, or even have anyone attempt to, is a huge mistake. He will never be Michael Jordan. Michael won 6 rings and could've won 7 or 8 at least if he didn't retire for two years. He was at such a different level, it's almost impossible to get there.

Jordan didn't win squat without Pippen. How many did Pippen win without Jordan? How many has Kobe or Shaq won when they weren't on the same team?

I'm not comparing Shaq and Scottie as a player. I'm comparing them as teammates. Scottie was just as important a teammate to Jordan as Kobe and Shaq were to eachother. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice these things.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 03:53 AM

Exactly. And I say this as someone who hated him and rooted for the Pacers during that time.

That's fine, but I still think you're off the mark with your comparisons.

Kobe is to Scottie as Shaq is to Michael would be a far more applicable analogy than the Kobe-MJ one.

Oh my God. Did you just compare Scottie frickin' Pippen to Kobe Bryant?!

Sorry couldn't resist.

tk13

01-10-2006, 04:00 AM

Jordan didn't win squat without Pippen. How many did Pippen win without Jordan? How many has Kobe or Shaq won when they weren't on the same team?

I'm not comparing Shaq and Scottie as a player. I'm comparing them as teammates. Scottie was just as important a teammate to Jordan as Kobe and Shaq were to eachother. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice these things.
Shaq has accomplished a lot more without Kobe than Kobe has without Shaq. I think that's a real stretch of a comparison. I mean having Scottie helped, he was a great player, but they weren't on equal footing like Shaq and Kobe were, MJ was on a different level than Scottie. I'm fairly confident in saying Shaq had way more to do with those championships than Scottie did with the Bulls titles.

kcxiv

01-10-2006, 04:07 AM

Kobe is only 27, just as old as Jordan when he won his first. Kobe still has a shitload of years to win alot more rings. Its to early in Kobes career to even measure how good a player he can become.

tk13

01-10-2006, 04:14 AM

I'm not saying Kobe can't do more. He has plenty of time to cement his legacy. But at this point he's not Michael Jordan. I think shooting to be Michael Jordan is silly. It's funny how this works, my initial post was a complete joke, and somehow we've come to this...

kcxiv

01-10-2006, 04:15 AM

Yeah, i dont like comparing players either, cuase there can only be 1. Just let them be thier own person.

tk13

01-10-2006, 04:20 AM

Miles

01-10-2006, 04:22 AM

Oh my God. Did you just compare Scottie frickin' Pippen to Kobe Bryant?!

Sorry couldn't resist.

The year after MJ retired many were saying how Scottie was among the best if not the best player in the league.

He may not have had a comparable offensive game but he was and exceptional defensive player along with having excellent rebounding and ball handling skills for a SF.

kcxiv

01-10-2006, 04:23 AM

I been a life long Laker fan, but them Bulls teams were just amazing. I hated to see them win with a passion, but hell, you just have to give them the credit they deserve. They just totally dominated thier era.

tk13

01-10-2006, 04:26 AM

The year after MJ retired many were saying how Scottie was among the best if not the best player in the league.

He may not have had a comparable offensive game but he was and exceptional defensive player along with having excellent rebounding and ball handling skills for a SF.
Don't get me wrong, he was a great player, but it's not comparable to a dominant post presence. Shaq was physically unstoppable, and a perfect compliment to Kobe's outside game. That's not Pippen's fault, but that's just how it is.

Miles

01-10-2006, 04:28 AM

I have a lot of respect for those Bulls teams. Those MJ title teams are the only NBA champions in the last 25-30 years that didn't have a dominant center. You go back through history and a post player like Shaq or Tim Duncan or Ben Wallace is crucial to success in the NBA. Jabbar, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Olajuwon, etc... for Jordan's team to win 6 titles without ever having a truly dominant center either offensively or defensively is amazing. There really is no comparison between those Bulls teams and anybody else.

Without looking it up Id guess that center was the easily weakest starting position of every single one of those Bulls teams.

Also as you mentioned its interesting that even in an era of fairly weak centers those that have them are still at the top.

tk13

01-10-2006, 04:31 AM

Without looking it up Id guess that center was the easily weakest starting position of every single one of those Bulls teams.

Also as you mentioned its interesting that even in an era of fairly weak centers those that have them are still at the top.
Oh yeah, definitely. I mean they had guys who held their own and really played above their head. Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington... yeah. If you made a list of NBA championship centers those guys would stick out like sore thumbs on the list.

Miles

01-10-2006, 04:36 AM

Don't get me wrong, he was a great player, but it's not comparable to a dominant post presence. Shaq was physically unstoppable, and a perfect compliment to Kobe's outside game. That's not Pippen's fault, but that's just how it is.

I completly agree with that. I was just commenting on the Kobe/Pippen thing. MJ is probably the only exception to a dominant big man (especially center) has more value idea. Psi's comparison of them is pretty much how I would put it as well. Though the talent gap is defintily greater between MJ/Pippen than it was with Kobe/Shaq.

Even three years removed from Shaq still being in his prime people are starting to forget just how dominate he was. Even in decline he is still one of the most valuable players in the game.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 06:31 AM

The year after MJ retired many were saying how Scottie was among the best if not the best player in the league.

He may not have had a comparable offensive game but he was and exceptional defensive player along with having excellent rebounding and ball handling skills for a SF.

Of course he was considered among the best in the league, he was at that time. I sure as hell don't remember anyone saying he was the best player in the league though.

Abba-Dabba

01-10-2006, 06:57 AM

I completly agree with that. I was just commenting on the Kobe/Pippen thing. MJ is probably the only exception to a dominant big man (especially center) has more value idea. Psi's comparison of them is pretty much how I would put it as well. Though the talent gap is defintily greater between MJ/Pippen than it was with Kobe/Shaq.

Even three years removed from Shaq still being in his prime people are starting to forget just how dominate he was. Even in decline he is still one of the most valuable players in the game.

Shaq is a great player, no doubt about it. Among the best. Shaq has never scored 45+ in 4 consecutive games though. Neither did Jordan, only Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor have had such streaks. Umm, and if I'm not mistaken, that's pretty damn good company to keep. Phil Jackson said last night that Jordan never had a streak of play as good as Kobe is having right now. In December Kobe had games of 43, 41 and 60.

It's easy for me to say this. Like Michael was, Kobe is the best player in the league. Period.

Except for my original point, the overall perception of Jordan as a saint and the perception of Kobe are quite different.

Miles

01-10-2006, 07:18 AM

Of course he was considered among the best in the league, he was at that time. I sure as hell don't remember anyone saying he was the best player in the league though.

It was mostly during the year after MJ retired that Scotty got hyped so much. I have always thought he was a bit overrated, then again I'm a Rockets fan so I don't exactly have the best memory of him.

Miles

01-10-2006, 07:34 AM

Shaq is a great player, no doubt about it. Among the best. Shaq has never scored 45+ in 4 consecutive games though. Neither did Jordan, only Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor have had such streaks. Umm, and if I'm not mistaken, that's pretty damn good company to keep. Phil Jackson said last night that Jordan never had a streak of play as good as Kobe is having right now. In December Kobe had games of 43, 41 and 60.

It's easy for me to say this. Like Michael was, Kobe is the best player in the league. Period.

Except for my original point, the overall perception of Jordan as a saint and the perception of Kobe are quite different.

I also remember him having a really nice streak of over 40 during Shaq's last year there. Might have been the longest if I recall correctly.

Kobe's scoring stats have been sick this season. I haven't seen scoring like this since I started watching the NBA. Though I will still argue that Shaq was the better player during the championship years. He was in his prime and a dominate center while Kobe was still developing (though by his fifth year he was pretty damn developed).

Also, damn Kobe and AI have put up some points this season.

PunkinDrublic

01-10-2006, 07:41 AM

Kobe has won 3. You think it would be easy getting along with Shaq? Shaq isn't exactly humble, you know. They butted heads, so what. That happens on every team to some degree.

Jordan couldn't win a championship without Scottie, Kobe can't win one without Shaq. Once again, very similar.

Jordan managed to make it work with Dennis Rodman on the team you think he's an easy guy to have on your team? Kobe can put up the numbers but he will never lead a team to a championship the way Jordan did. Yeah Jordan wasn't a saint but he didn't let his off the court stuff get in the way of the team winning. IMO his selfishness and ego are what ran off Shaq (Not that Shaq is an angel either). He could have sacrificed his numbers in order to win more championships but being the 1 star player on the team was more important than that.

Scaga

01-10-2006, 08:47 AM

Funny....
That's the exact same number of shots he takes during the games.

:rolleyes:

Michael Jordan he's not...and never will be.

ROYC75

01-10-2006, 08:52 AM

The only thing Kobe can be best at is being a punk, but right now Allen Iverson has him beat .

vailpass

01-10-2006, 10:16 AM

MJ took the torch handed off by Larry Legend and Magic and ran with it. He kept the NBA significant.

Kobe dropped the torch and smothered it with his cry-baby tears. The NBA is now insignificant, experiencing the lowest ratings in it's history. The game is unwatchable. The large majority of the populace that still know what the NBA is and who plays in it would cheer a lot louder if Kobe blew out both knees than if he scored 100 points in a game.

Kobe could never carry MJ's jock. Not as a player, a leader, a competitor, a spokesman, a sportsman, a team mate, or as a man.

Megbert

01-10-2006, 10:37 AM

MVP MVP!!!!! of a 18 and 16 team in 3rd place in their division!!!! WOW talk about carrying a team. Just because someone scores tons of pts doesn't make them an MVP.

Halfcan

01-10-2006, 08:31 PM

MVP MVP!!!!! of a 18 and 16 team in 3rd place in their division!!!! WOW talk about carrying a team. Just because someone scores tons of pts doesn't make them an MVP.

Kobe is the team. But your right, the Lakers won't make the playoffs, so his chance at MVP will be slim. Maybe after this year he will want someone else with some talent on the team.

freebeer

01-12-2006, 06:13 AM

Jordan managed to make it work with Dennis Rodman on the team you think he's an easy guy to have on your team? Kobe can put up the numbers but he will never lead a team to a championship the way Jordan did. Yeah Jordan wasn't a saint but he didn't let his off the court stuff get in the way of the team winning. IMO his selfishness and ego are what ran off Shaq (Not that Shaq is an angel either). He could have sacrificed his numbers in order to win more championships but being the 1 star player on the team was more important than that.

Yea, Jordon had his faults off the court. He bet on golf....so what? He enjoys a $20 cigar.....again, so what?
But I dont remember Jordon ever getting accused of rape or branishing a firearm. Most people in the NBA are gangsters or thugs.
By the way......Iverson has a new agent.....its Shug Knight.

KC Jones

01-12-2006, 06:39 AM

After reading this thread, I think sack has a life size poster of Kobe in his room and there are a few sticky spots on it.

Abba-Dabba

01-12-2006, 11:47 AM

After reading this thread, I think sack has a life size poster of Kobe in his room and there are a few sticky spots on it.

After reading your post, I think you don't have a ****ing clue.

I'm not a Kobe fan, I'm not even a Laker fan. Lakers used to be a big rival of mine though. I'm a Supersonics fan.