Teicher: Herm will get to pick staff

[tk13]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13588300.htm

Staff will get a shot at staying

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The remnants of Dick Vermeil’s coaching staff have not yet scattered to the winds. Even with Herman Edwards now coaching the Chiefs, Vermeil’s assistants are under contract through the end of the month.

Some of them might get extensions. Edwards said Monday that he would interview all of Vermeil’s assistants and could retain one or more on his staff.

“It’s a good staff,” Edwards said. “They’ve won a lot of football games.”

The Chiefs may have to move on without the architect of their offense, coordinator Al Saunders. Hoping to become a head coach, Saunders will interview this week for the vacancy in Detroit and was scheduled for a second meeting in Houston. He also met with the Texans last week.

Saunders may eventually interview with the Raiders.

Edwards’ most difficult hire might be finding a coordinator to replace Saunders, if that becomes necessary.

“That offense is as dynamic as there is in the NFL,” CBS analyst Boomer Esiason said. “They can run it when they need to run it, and they can throw it when they need to throw it.

“They have to figure out a way to keep Al Saunders there. Don’t fix something that’s not broken. That offense is not broken.”

Edwards’ defensive philosophy appears to clash with that of coordinator Gunther Cunningham. Edwards said he will interview Cunningham anyway.

“The first person I’m going to sit down with is Gunther,” Edwards said. “We’re going to look at what we’re doing over there and decide how we want to go, where I’m going to go. I wish I could tell you. We’ll just have to look at it and see.”

Edwards indicated he planned to talk to Tampa Bay defensive-line coach Rod Marinelli about the coordinator’s job but had not yet asked the Bucs for permission to speak with him.

The two were together on the Tampa Bay staff in the late 1990s.
Edwards said he was unlikely to bring any of his Jets assistants because they are all still under contract.

President/general manager Carl Peterson said Edwards would have full authority over the hiring of a staff.

“The first loyalty of an assistant coach is to the head coach,” Peterson said. “It has to be.

“Will I, as I’ve done over the years with Marty (Schottenheimer), Gunther and Dick, recommend some guys? Sure. That’s part of my business, to evaluate not only player talent but coaching talent. But at the end of the day, that’s his decision.”

[tk13]

Somebody needs to tell Herm that Marinelli's contract is up. Here's the latest update on him today.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGB01X7P9IE.html

Defensive line coach Rod Marinelli was in Detroit, where he interviewed with Lions officials for their vacant head coaching job.

"I think he would be good," Bucs coach Jon Gruden said when asked what kind of head coach he thought Marinelli would be. "I think Rod is a great coach. He's a guy I certainly would recommend."

Marinelli has also been linked to defensive coordinator jobs in Kansas City - under new Chiefs coach Herm Edwards - and Chicago, should current coordinator Ron Rivera land a head coaching position.

Marinelli, 56, has long been considered a coach worthy of running a defense, if not an entire team. The Bears, Jets and Giants tried in recent years to hire him as a coordinator, but his path was blocked by the Bucs.

There is nothing to block Marinelli's path out of Tampa now. His contract has expired, and while Marinelli does have a desire to remain in Tampa, he would certainly leave for a head coach's job.

It could be weeks, though, before Marinelli learns where he stands with the Lions, in part because their lead candidate is believed to be Steelers assistant head coach/offensive line coach Russ Grimm.

Grimm's Steelers advanced to the second round of the playoffs Sunday by walloping the Bengals. If his team continues to advance, it could be February before a coaching decision is made in Detroit.

The Lions already have talked with interim head coach Dick Jauron, former Saints coach Jim Haslett and offensive coordinators Maurice Carthon (Browns) and Gary Kubiak (Broncos).

[HemiEd]

Wow, good read. So much for Carl cramming guys down his throat and making him a yes man.

[Ultra Peanut]

<img src="http://www.jgulinosports.com/images/Edwards,Herm-Vermeil,Dick1.jpg" style="width: 285px; height: 190px; border: 0" alt="" />

"PIKACHU, I CHOOSE YOU!"

[MichaelH]

Sounds to me like Gunther is gone depsite reports that state otherwise. I was happy to see him return but he hasn't done as much as he could of defensively. In my opinion, it was because of Dick and his defensive staff selections. Maybe he should be given one more year??
As much as I questioned Al's playcalling the past few years, he really needs to stay. Who else could keep the offense intact and/or improving for the future? It will be a tradgedy to see this offense disbanded.

[Hammock Parties]

OK, that makes me feel much better.

However, I wouldn't put it past Carl to just flat out lie about this crap. We'll know if there is little or no turnover.

[DaWolf]

“The first person I’m going to sit down with is Gunther,” Edwards said. “We’re going to look at what we’re doing over there and decide how we want to go, where I’m going to go. I wish I could tell you. We’ll just have to look at it and see.”

Edwards indicated he planned to talk to Tampa Bay defensive-line coach Rod Marinelli about the coordinator’s job but had not yet asked the Bucs for permission to speak with him.

I'm very encouraged that this means that Gun is gone. I'm not encouraged if Teicher/Herm is sleeping on the job by saying that we have to seek permission to talk to him.

Playing physical, structured, disciplined defense is what I would love to see us do. But it may mean we have to make even more personnel changes, especially up front. Hopefully this spells the end for Eric Hicks...

[Herzig]

OK, that makes me feel much better.

However, I wouldn't put it past Carl to just flat out lie about this crap. We'll know if there is little or no turnover.

I just took you off Iggy...2 days without your new mantra was kinda nice!

[Skip Towne]

I just took you off Iggy...2 days without your new mantra was kinda nice!
Your avatar is too small. Get it right, soldier.

[KCTitus]

President/general manager Carl Peterson said Edwards would have full authority over the hiring of a staff.

“The first loyalty of an assistant coach is to the head coach,” Peterson said. “It has to be.

“Will I, as I’ve done over the years with Marty (Schottenheimer), Gunther and Dick, recommend some guys? Sure. That’s part of my business, to evaluate not only player talent but coaching talent. But at the end of the day, that’s his decision.”

I thought the Planet had determined that Edwards was not to be given any authority on the assistants. Where is Frankie, we need to fire off another letter!

[Bob Dole]

The defense appears to be headed in the right direction. Bob Dole is a little concerned about another shift in focus at this point...

[Alphaman]

Somebody needs to tell Herm that Marinelli's contract is up. Here's the latest update on him today.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGB01X7P9IE.html

Just like the Chiefs coaches, his contract isn't officially up until the end of the month.

[htismaqe]

This makes me feel better.

Those comments give me reason to believe Gunther won't be back.

[morphius]

I will be happy when I hear that Guinta doesn't make the cut, till then I'm going to be a bit on edge. I'm happy that earlier reports were just rumors, a coach has to have the ability to pick his own guys.

[Infidel Goat]

I'm sure that somebody else has posted this elsewhere, but I have to believe that Marinelli will get out of Tampa Bay as soon as he can.

In 2001, Edwards asked for permission to interview Marinelli to be his defensive coordinator in New York. Tampa Bay denied permission.

In 2002, Tony Dungy asked for permission to interview Marinelli to be his defensive coordinator in Indianapolis. Again, Tampa Bay denied permission.

I don't know what his contract status is, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Joe Barry show up on the staff as well. He is the son-in-law of Marinelli--and if his contract is up, I think he would rather work for an organization that allows its coaches to move up in the coaching rank as the Bucs wouldn't let him interview for the DC position in Arizona a couple of years ago.

--Infidel Goat

[FringeNC]

This makes me feel better.

Those comments give me reason to believe Gunther won't be back.

Yeah, I don't see where Clayton gets his shit that Gun is a lock, and we are getting Heimerdinger.

[RedThat]

I want Al Saunders back here...Man I hope somehow, someway he can be retained as our OC.

[ROYC75]

I can hear Herm now when the new OC and DC are announced.......

Gentlemen, we cand rebuild them, make them faster and better we have Paul Hacket and _____________( insert some other bozo here )

[Wile_E_Coyote]

I reckon Special Teams will get a complete overhaul

[Piper]

When he picked his first staff in NY it included Paul Hackett and Teddy Cottrell...

[C-Mac]

Yeah, I don't see where Clayton gets his shit that Gun is a lock, and we are getting Heimerdinger.

Perhaps Gun will stay on as a linebackers coach....

[Hammock Parties]

Perhaps Gun will stay on as a linebackers coach....

Pipe dream.

[C-Mac]

I can hear Herm now when the new OC and DC are announced.......

Gentlemen, we cand rebuild them, make them faster and better we have Paul Hacket and _____________( insert some other bozo here )

Paul Hackett is the Lin Elliot of coaches.
He values his life, he wont return to KC.

[Idahored]

I must be in the minority because I am hoping Gun stays. I think our defense was really coming around at the end of the season and I think they will get better. If we change schemes then I see two big problems. First our players (especially corner backs) fit Guns scheme not a cover two. Secondly, they would have to again learn a different scheme again. Anyone who thinks that is an easy transition has rocks in their head.

What I want is Gun to stay and Herm to step in and help where it is needed. Say, like the D line...

[Coogs]

I must be in the minority because I am hoping Gun stays. I think our defense was really coming around at the end of the season and I think they will get better. If we change schemes then I see two big problems. First our players (especially corner backs) fit Guns scheme not a cover two. Secondly, they would have to again learn a different scheme again. Anyone who thinks that is an easy transition has rocks in their head.

What I want is Gun to stay and Herm to step in and help where it is needed. Say, like the D line...

Our defense ranked 25th. This is after we brought in everyone Gun wanted plus the bonus of DJ in the draft. Gun is supposed to be a LB coach, and DJ was supposed to be a playmaker. DJ made tackles, but he really didn't make many game changing plays like Merriman of the Chargers did.

Time for Gun to move on. The new guy can't do much worse than what we have seen around here for the past 7 or 8 years on defense.

[philfree]

I must be in the minority because I am hoping Gun stays. I think our defense was really coming around at the end of the season and I think they will get better. If we change schemes then I see two big problems. First our players (especially corner backs) fit Guns scheme not a cover two. Secondly, they would have to again learn a different scheme again. Anyone who thinks that is an easy transition has rocks in their head.

What I want is Gun to stay and Herm to step in and help where it is needed. Say, like the D line...

I feel the same in regards to changing DCs. We have improved and the next step in improvement under Gun could be a big one. A change in scheme and terminology will only set the growth process back. As far as Herm stepping in where needed I think his real expertise is with the secondary and I think we will see the evidence of that no matter who we sign as DC.



PhilFree:arrow:

[Coogs]

I feel the same in regards to changing DCs. We have improved and the next step in improvement under Gun could be a big one. A change in scheme and terminology will only set the growth process back. As far as Herm stepping in where needed I think his real expertise is with the secondary and I think we will see the evidence of that no matter who we sign as DC.



PhilFree:arrow:

Damn, we were 28th in defense until Cincy mailed it in the last geme of the season.

[Hammock Parties]

A change in scheme and terminology will only set the growth process back.:

Yeah, there's no WAY another defensive coordinator could come in here and make us better than 25th his first year.

Every defensive scheme in it's first year is GUARANTEED to be bad, right? :rolleyes:

[Mr. Laz]

I must be in the minority

fight the power ... don't let Da Man keep ya down!!!



http://www.animalxing.com/textures/_a/afriscot_fightthepower.gif

[philfree]

Damn, we were 28th in defense until Cincy mailed it in the last geme of the season.

It's more then just numbers I suppose but we were 16th in points allowed and 7th against the run. So instead of changing the whole thing why don't we just fix the broken part? Herm-Giunta= better secondary play? Maybe.........IMO our D was so far gone that Gun has done alot better job then he's getting credit for.

PhilFree:arrow:

[FringeNC]

Yeah, there's no WAY another defensive coordinator could come in here and make us better than 25th his first year.

Every defensive scheme in it's first year is GUARANTEED to be bad, right? :rolleyes:

It's a lot harder to install a new offense than a new defense. Martz turned around the Rams in his first year from near last to first. That is what a good coordinator does. After these last two years, you people actually believe that our rankings will be higher next year under Gun than they would be under Marinelli?

[jspchief]

It's more then just numbers I suppose but we were 16th in points allowed and 7th against the run. So instead of changing the whole thing why don't we just fix the broken part? Herm-Giunta= better secondary play? Maybe.........IMO our D was so far gone that Gun has done alot better job then he's getting credit for.

PhilFree:arrow:There were signs of improvement.

Our run defense was better.
Our points allowed average dropped by 7 points from '04. That's a significant change.

I'm not advocating keeping Gun, but I do wonder if the continuity of a tweaked Gun system would be more likely to give fast results than a complete overhaul. Hard to say.

[Rausch]

It's a lot harder to install a new offense than a new defense. Martz turned around the Rams in his first year from near last to first. That is what a good coordinator does.

No, that's what dumping Lawrence Phillips and Tony Banks and adding two Al Pro's does.

[Rausch]

There were signs of improvement.

Our run defense was better.
Our points allowed average dropped by 7 points from '04. That's a significant change.

I'm not advocating keeping Gun, but I do wonder if the continuity of a tweaked Gun system would be more likely to give fast results than a complete overhaul. Hard to say.

I think the biggest change will have to come from the HC.

OK is no good enough. We've got a defense filled with OK guys. Right now we have people who might become game changing players but that's it.

Our defensive line needs to be completely rebuilt. Allen is a good rush end and IF Sims restructures I wouldn't mind seeing if he can last a whole season. Outside of that I don't care to see many of the others return...

[bringbackmarty]

Damn, we were 28th in defense until Cincy mailed it in the last geme of the season.
shit that shit wasn't even good enough for the usps. That shit was a spam e-mail on the last page of the junk folder, attached to a msg about penis enlargement.

[bringbackmarty]

It's more then just numbers I suppose but we were 16th in points allowed and 7th against the run. So instead of changing the whole thing why don't we just fix the broken part? Herm-Giunta= better secondary play? Maybe.........IMO our D was so far gone that Gun has done alot better job then he's getting credit for.

PhilFree:arrow:
I don't think changing coordinators will kill us. If herm has a hand in the defense, It will be okay. He also said he will engineer the system to fit the players. If the system was already engineered to fit the players, which it sure as hell wasn't fitting in the Dallas, New York, and Buffalo games then the system will stay the same. As far as the secondary goes, we have slow stupid safeties who are are rarely in position to hit anything that is caught in front of them. We have two corner backs that are complete asses that total like a billion dollars under our cap. We have one decent corner that is of a normal size, and one pretty good midget corner who is a great blitzer. So I tend to think we start by getting younger and faster at the safety position, and cut the fat at the corner, and get some people who are willing to learn from surtain, like he did from madison.

We still need a fattie in the middle to clog the runnung lanes and collapse the pocket, we need six more sacks a year from allen, and we need to cut hicks. If we do all that, we will win the superbowl next year.

[philfree]

It's a lot harder to install a new offense than a new defense. Martz turned around the Rams in his first year from near last to first. That is what a good coordinator does. After these last two years, you people actually believe that our rankings will be higher next year under Gun than they would be under Marinelli?

Martz didn't bring the scheme, DV had already spent two years trying to run it with Tony Banks. Martz didn't invent the offense but he did do a good job running it in St Louis for a short while before he went nuts.

PhilFree:arrow:

[cdcox]

There were signs of improvement.

Our run defense was better.
Our points allowed average dropped by 7 points from '04. That's a significant change.

I'm not advocating keeping Gun, but I do wonder if the continuity of a tweaked Gun system would be more likely to give fast results than a complete overhaul. Hard to say.

The defense was better, but it has reached a limit in terms of getting better without a complete change in secondary coverage scheme. After two years and the injection of talent that we have had, the Defense should be much better than it was. We don't have the luxery of waiting around and hoping it gets better.

[luv]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2006/01/09/dick_vermeil_on_head_coach_herman_edwards/


Q: As a new coach somewhere what is it like interviewing the current staff to see if you want to keep them?

VERMEIL: “It is uncomfortable. It is very uncomfortable. You as a head coach know you have some guys in mind that you would like to get if you can. You don’t know many guys on the staff. I have always kept guys off of the staff. I have always found out from people who is doing a good job. Sometimes I knew already. When I went to UCLA as my first major job I hired seven assistants right off of the staff, including Carl Peterson. If I had not done that I would not have been exposed to Terry Donahue, Dick Tomey, Lynn Stiles, Carl Peterson, great football coaches. Great football people. Sometimes you maintain continuity and they teach you what has been going on the last few years. They know the personnel and all of that. They know the strengths and weaknesses. It gives you a real jump. You have to have confidence in your own ability to make those kinds of decisions. I kept people when I came here. I kept Joe Vitt, I kept Bob Karmelowicz and Mike Solari. I sort of like to do that. Plus it takes you off the hook sometimes.”

Q: Would you recommend he keep the entire offensive staff?

VERMEIL: “It would be great, but I don’t think it will happen. Some of these people know other people that are going to be head coaches that have personal connections with like Herman has Tony Dungy. You want to work for them.”

Q: Is (offensive line coach) Mike Solari ready to be an offensive coordinator?

VERMEIL: “He is ready. If Mike did that he would have somebody with him that is involved deeply in the passing game. Mike has really been zeroed in on pass protections and the running game and not so much with pass patterns and the quarterback. Mike Solari is unlimited.”

[jspchief]

The defense was better, but it has reached a limit in terms of getting better without a complete change in secondary coverage scheme. After two years and the injection of talent that we have had, the Defense should be much better than it was. We don't have the luxery of waiting around and hoping it gets better. I think that's a valid arguement. I'm certainly not endorsing Gun. It's possible that he's taken it as far as he can.

I still wonder if a brand new guy trying to do his brand new thing, will give us a better '06 defense than an Edwards tweaked Gun defense.

It depends on what expectations you have for the immediate future, and how quickly you believe things can be turned around. I certainly don't think a new guy is going to give us a better D this year. But I've also resigned myself to making a last gasp effort with the team we have (O and D), before a pretty serious overhaul takes place.

[Hammock Parties]

I certainly don't think a new guy is going to give us a better D [i]this year.

Come on.

You don't think we can bring in a guy that can improve over TWENTY-FIFTH? ROFL

Edwards isn't going to "tweak" anything, either. He's not a defensive guru. Never been a coordinator. At best he can improve the defensive backs since he used to be a DB coach.

[ROYC75]

Our defense ranked 25th. This is after we brought in everyone Gun wanted plus the bonus of DJ in the draft. Gun is supposed to be a LB coach, and DJ was supposed to be a playmaker. DJ made tackles, but he really didn't make many game changing plays like Merriman of the Chargers did.

Time for Gun to move on. The new guy can't do much worse than what we have seen around here for the past 7 or 8 years on defense.


Again, Gun has said many times, it takes LB's 3 years to adjust to his scheme. Our DL is not good enough to pressure the QB and contain the run to allow the safetys and corners to play up on the recievers.

I think we need more help up front or for some strange miracle they all turn into por bowl players.

Switching DC and schemes now will only delay the progress of the defense.

Here's a thought for you to chew on..... Sammy Knight in a cover 2 ........ yep, there goes the recievers again running past Knight.

[MOhillbilly]

Good. Theres hope that Gunther wont be back.

[Hammock Parties]

Switching DC and schemes now will only delay the progress of the defense.

Wrong. There must be zero good coordinators in this league if not a single one of them can come in and make us better than 25th.


Here's a thought for you to chew on..... Sammy Knight in a cover 2 ........ yep, there goes the recievers again running past Knight.

Wrong again. John Lynch played for years in the Cover 2. Sammy Knight might as well be a black version of John Lynch. Same type of safety.

[Rausch]

Wrong again. John Lynch played for years in the Cover 2. Sammy Knight might as well be a black version of John Lynch. Same type of safety.

Agreed.

That said, I have yet to see a cover 2 work without an outstanding D line that can get to the QB.

[MOhillbilly]

Wrong again. John Lynch played for years in the Cover 2. Sammy Knight might as well be a black version of John Lynch. Same type of safety.


yep.

[cdcox]

I think that's a valid arguement. I'm certainly not endorsing Gun. It's possible that he's taken it as far as he can.

I still wonder if a brand new guy trying to do his brand new thing, will give us a better '06 defense than an Edwards tweaked Gun defense.

It depends on what expectations you have for the immediate future, and how quickly you believe things can be turned around. I certainly don't think a new guy is going to give us a better D this year. But I've also resigned myself to making a last gasp effort with the team we have (O and D), before a pretty serious overhaul takes place.

I expect us to win the SB in the next two years. Given that the Chiefs have sustained a top three offense in the NFL over going on 4 years now, I think a anything other than a SB victory would have to be called a collasal failure.

[Hammock Parties]

Agreed.

That said, I have yet to see a cover 2 work without an outstanding D line that can get to the QB.

People are talking about signing John Abraham and drafting a stud DT...I don't see it happening.

[Rausch]

People are talking about signing John Abraham and drafting a stud DT...I don't see it happening.

I think a move like that would have a bigger impact than replacing Gun with anyone and standing pat.

Our D line needs serious help...

[jspchief]

Come on.

You don't think we can bring in a guy that can improve over TWENTY-FIFTH? ROFL

Edwards isn't going to "tweak" anything, either. He's not a defensive guru. Never been a coordinator. At best he can improve the defensive backs since he used to be a DB coach.I'm not saying it's impossible. I just think there's a high likelyhood that the D will regress in the first year of a new system. Overnight success is rare in this league.

And Edwards tweaking the Dbacks could actually go a long way towards helping our biggest defensive weakness.

[Hammock Parties]

I just think there's a high likelyhood that the D will regress in the first year of a new system. O


I sure don't. I don't expect a new DC to field a top ten defense immediately, but he can sure as hell improve over the garbage we have now.

[Dartgod]

...I think a anything other than a SB victory would have to be called a collasal failure.
ROFL

Ok, Taco...

[Logical]

The defense appears to be headed in the right direction. Bob Dole is a little concerned about another shift in focus at this point...You must be examining the D under a microscope if you are visibly observing the progress. It was so infitesimal that I cannot seeing a major change as any less likely to produce signficant improvement than staying the course.

[Coogs]

Again, Gun has said many times, it takes LB's 3 years to adjust to his scheme.

So we have to wait 2 more years to see the good stuff from DJ? :shake:

[tk13]

I think we can improve pretty quickly if we switch to a Cover 2. The Rams turned around in one year, the Bears in a couple. The Cover 2 is not that complicated at all. If we were going to change philosophies that's definitely where I'd want to go.

I think we could do it. We have to cut Bell anyway, and Barber and Fox would be solid cover 2 linebackers I think. We can draft DB's, the key would be improving the front four. If we could do that we'd be alright I think.

[Frankie]

The defense appears to be headed in the right direction. Bob Dole is a little concerned about another shift in focus at this point...
Frankie agrees with Bob Dole.

[FloridaMan88]

Switching DC and schemes now will only delay the progress of the defense.



What progress?? I don't see any progress at all. The defense this year still couldn't get to the QB consistently, got torched by the pass and failed to make stops when they had to (i.e. the Dallas game, the NY Giants game, the first Denver game, the first San Diego game, the Philly game).

Let Herm blow it up and bring in the guys he wants.

I'm more concerned about the offense though, (and this is the main reason why I didn't want Herm to be the next HC), because I'm concerned Herm is going to try to Marty-down the offense.

Keeping Al Saunders is vital now as OC, because not only will he be able to keep the current offensive system in place but he has the stature to stand up to Herm if Herm wants to start dumbing down the offense.

[htismaqe]

It's more then just numbers I suppose but we were 16th in points allowed and 7th against the run. So instead of changing the whole thing why don't we just fix the broken part? Herm-Giunta= better secondary play? Maybe.........IMO our D was so far gone that Gun has done alot better job then he's getting credit for.

PhilFree:arrow:

We were 7th against the run because we were SECOND in fewest attempts against. We didn't give up many yards because NOBODY ran against us.

In the rushing stat that REALLY counts, yards per attempt, we were TWENTIETH (4.1 ypc). That's not even close to good enough.

[Hammock Parties]

We were 7th against the run because we were SECOND in fewest attempts against. We didn't give up many yards because NOBODY ran against us.

In the rushing stat that REALLY counts, yards per attempt, we were TWENTIETH (4.1 ypc). That's not even close to good enough.

While I don't like defending Gunther, if you look at the stats, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Carolina and Seattle were all ranked fairly low in fewest attempts against, too, and they only gave up 3.5/3.6 ypc.

I think we had a solid run D. The Giants/Denver games skewed the ypc stat.

[DJJasonp]

Perhaps Gun will stay on as a linebackers coach....


No way....I mean how many times can you kick a guy in the nuts and he keeps coming back for more????

Let's see...

Fired as a head coach over the internet....
Brought back as a (demotion) to defensive coordinator (in a no-win situation)...

And then asked to be demoted again to LB coach?

Someone stop the fight, Gunther has had enough!

[tk13]

Actually when he was with the Raiders, I think Gun was demoted from DC to D-line coach..

[htismaqe]

While I don't like defending Gunther, if you look at the stats, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Carolina and Seattle were all ranked fairly low in fewest attempts against, too, and they only gave up 3.5/3.6 ypc.

I think we had a solid run D. The Giants/Denver games skewed the ypc stat.

The point is, the reason those teams ranked well in rushing yards against was because they were good against the run.

The reason we ranked well in rushing yards against is because nobody attempted to run on us.

3.5 ypc versus 4.1 ypc.

NO comparison.

[htismaqe]

No way....I mean how many times can you kick a guy in the nuts and he keeps coming back for more????

Let's see...

Fired as a head coach over the internet....
Brought back as a (demotion) to defensive coordinator (in a no-win situation)...

And then asked to be demoted again to LB coach?

Someone stop the fight, Gunther has had enough!

Something tells me the guy doesn't have any nuts left to kick...

[Logical]

We were 7th against the run because we were SECOND in fewest attempts against. We didn't give up many yards because NOBODY ran against us.

In the rushing stat that REALLY counts, yards per attempt, we were TWENTIETH (4.1 ypc). That's not even close to good enough.I would be the last to defend Gun since I don't think all that much of him. However, it would also be likely that teams would attempt the rush less if they felt they were not going to gain as much. I doubt this is the reason for the low number of attempt, our pathetic pass D is most likely the reason. But there is a chance. You cannot disguise the bad YPA though.

[Chiefaholic]

I sure don't. I don't expect a new DC to field a top ten defense immediately, but he can sure as hell improve over the garbage we have now.

To think a decent D-line would improve the Chiefs is out of the question. Goat Cheese has already made up his mind that Gunther had no clue how to run a defense. It's the ignorant BS like this that caused me to all but quit posting all together. Gun DOES know what it takes to have a spectacular defense, despite your rediculous anti-Gun crap your throwing in everybodys face that remembers the mid 90's defense that GUNTHER CUNNINGHAM ran.

You want to talk defense?... What does Chicago have that KC doesn't? They have a dominant D-Line that gets pressure on the QB and stuffs most runs up the gut. That's what the Chiefs had when we had Smith, Phillips, Saleaumua, and Booker on the line. Gun doesn't have that luxury right now and WOULD have better results if he was given the opportunity with a better front 4. He's already proven what he can do as a DC if given the players to allow him to play his style of defense.

And changing DC's and an entire different defensive scheme does NOT guarantee shit. You have to have the players to fit the scheme befor you see results. I'm on the Gun bandwagon and never been off.. Give the man some playmakers on the front four and see if I'm not blowing smoke. I'de swear by some of your responses that you were never a Chief fan during the Schottenheimer era.

[FringeNC]

To think a decent D-line would improve the Chiefs is out of the question. .

It's none other than Gunther Cunningham himself who decided defensive line help was less a priority than signing Kendrell Bell. Not only was Gun bad at strategy and tactics, he sucked at identifying needs and talent evaluation. He sucked in just about every possible way there is for a coach to suck.

[milkman]

To think a decent D-line would improve the Chiefs is out of the question. Goat Cheese has already made up his mind that Gunther had no clue how to run a defense. It's the ignorant BS like this that caused me to all but quit posting all together. Gun DOES know what it takes to have a spectacular defense, despite your rediculous anti-Gun crap your throwing in everybodys face that remembers the mid 90's defense that GUNTHER CUNNINGHAM ran.

You want to talk defense?... What does Chicago have that KC doesn't? They have a dominant D-Line that gets pressure on the QB and stuffs most runs up the gut. That's what the Chiefs had when we had Smith, Phillips, Saleaumua, and Booker on the line. Gun doesn't have that luxury right now and WOULD have better results if he was given the opportunity with a better front 4. He's already proven what he can do as a DC if given the players to allow him to play his style of defense.

And changing DC's and an entire different defensive scheme does NOT guarantee shit. You have to have the players to fit the scheme befor you see results. I'm on the Gun bandwagon and never been off.. Give the man some playmakers on the front four and see if I'm not blowing smoke. I'de swear by some of your responses that you were never a Chief fan during the Schottenheimer era.

He had all that talent on the defesive front, not to mention the fact that he had outstanding talent at LB and in the secondary, and yet he still managed to be consistently inconsistent.

[FAX]

I agree with Mr. Chiefaholic. Partly because he's right ... Carolina has also built an impressive defense around their front 4.

But, mostly I'm agreeing because I always agree with people with "aholic" in their names.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

To think a decent D-line would improve the Chiefs is out of the question. Goat Cheese has already made up his mind that Gunther had no clue how to run a defense. It's the ignorant BS like this that caused me to all but quit posting all together. Gun DOES know what it takes to have a spectacular defense, despite your rediculous anti-Gun crap your throwing in everybodys face that remembers the mid 90's defense that GUNTHER CUNNINGHAM ran.


You don't need hall of fame talent defenders to have a good defense.

Apparently that is what Gunther needs to field one.

See the Washington Redskins. The talent difference between KC and Washington is MINIMAL. They certainly don't have a guy like Jared Allen on their defensive line.

Gunther sucks.

[FAX]

The talent difference between KC and Washington is MINIMAL.

With all respect, Mr. gochiefs. It is most advisable to remove the neuro-inhibitor prior to posting.

FAX

[Chiefaholic]

He had all that talent on the defesive front, not to mention the fact that he had outstanding talent at LB and in the secondary, and yet he still managed to be consistently inconsistent.

Who are the talented players on the D-line you're refeering to? NOBODY... Watch the Bears this weekend and see what a TRUE dominant front 4 can do. Jared Allen is a respectable pass rusher, but is suspect against the run. Our tackles might as well keep their ass on the bench no more pressure than they get on the QB. And Eric Hicks is nothing more than a "nice guy" that Vermeil had a heart on for.

If the Chiefs didn't rush one or two LB's we had no rush at all and the opposing QB could stand in the pocket all freakin day until a WR broke open. JUst line the offense, a defense starts in the trenches as well. We didn't have the players to get the push needed and was forces to improvise the defense to make up for the lack of talent up front.

There's no need to argue this point any further. If you know anything about football, you'de realize the importance of a legit pass rush.

[FAX]

100% correct, Mr. Chiefaholic!

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

With all respect, Mr. gochiefs. It is most advisable to remove the neuro-inhibitor prior to posting.

FAX

Go and look at a roster.

They have journeymen defensive ends. A rookie corner for crying out loud. Arrington was on the bench most of this season.

[Frankie]

To think a decent D-line would improve the Chiefs is out of the question. Goat Cheese has already made up his mind that Gunther had no clue how to run a defense. It's the ignorant BS like this that caused me to all but quit posting all together. Gun DOES know what it takes to have a spectacular defense, despite your rediculous anti-Gun crap your throwing in everybodys face that remembers the mid 90's defense that GUNTHER CUNNINGHAM ran.

You want to talk defense?... What does Chicago have that KC doesn't? They have a dominant D-Line that gets pressure on the QB and stuffs most runs up the gut. That's what the Chiefs had when we had Smith, Phillips, Saleaumua, and Booker on the line. Gun doesn't have that luxury right now and WOULD have better results if he was given the opportunity with a better front 4. He's already proven what he can do as a DC if given the players to allow him to play his style of defense.

And changing DC's and an entire different defensive scheme does NOT guarantee shit. You have to have the players to fit the scheme befor you see results. I'm on the Gun bandwagon and never been off.. Give the man some playmakers on the front four and see if I'm not blowing smoke. I'de swear by some of your responses that you were never a Chief fan during the Schottenheimer era.
I'm in total agreement with you here.

[FAX]

Go and look at a roster.

They have journeymen defensive ends. A rookie corner for crying out loud. Arrington was on the bench most of this season.

I will conduct a full investigation and post a complete analysis comparing the Washington defensive personnel with ours as soon as I am able, Mr. gochiefs.

FAX THE ON THE CASE

[Hammock Parties]

Who are the talented players on the D-line you're refeering to? NOBODY... Watch the Bears this weekend and see what a TRUE dominant front 4 can do. Jared Allen is a respectable pass rusher, but is suspect against the run. Our tackles might as well keep their ass on the bench no more pressure than they get on the QB. And Eric Hicks is nothing more than a "nice guy" that Vermeil had a heart on for.

If the Chiefs didn't rush one or two LB's we had no rush at all and the opposing QB could stand in the pocket all freakin day until a WR broke open. JUst line the offense, a defense starts in the trenches as well. We didn't have the players to get the push needed and was forces to improvise the defense to make up for the lack of talent up front.

There's no need to argue this point any further. If you know anything about football, you'de realize the importance of a legit pass rush.

Stop using the Bears as your example.

Go and look at the Redskins defense and tell me it's more talented than KC's. Maybe it is at a couple of positions, but overall, it's a push.

There are defenses with the same or even LESS talent playing better football in the NFL today.

[nychief]

I agree with chiefaholic. We need help in the middle. We don't have a Cornelius Griffin like Washington does. Griffin would be our best interior lineman in a second.

[Chiefaholic]

You don't need hall of fame talent defenders to have a good defense.

Apparently that is what Gunther needs to field one.

See the Washington Redskins. The talent difference between KC and Washington is MINIMAL. They certainly don't have a guy like Jared Allen on their defensive line.

Gunther sucks.

Go back to your Star Wars fantasy, Meatpeeker. Jared Allen is a one dimensional DE. He's a rspectable pass rusher, but sucks against the run. TRY AGAIN. I don't give a crap who's standing on the sideline, the D-Line wouldn't be any more pass rush with a different DC than they did with Gun. If Gun can't run a defense, then explain the mid-90's defense he used to run...

[FAX]

Another fabulously constructed argument by Mr. Chiefaholic!!

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

If Gun can't run a defense, then explain the mid-90's defense he used to run...

ROFL

Robinson himself could have run that defense with success. It was incredibly talented...ridiculously talented.

The Redskins have a rookie corner, a no-name safety, and two retread defensive ends...and they're getting it done.



Can someone tell me why people will throw out EVERY excuse in the book for Gunther, yet not do the same for Robinson?

I'm betting if you gave Robinson Sammy Knight, Patrick Surtain, Derrick Johnson, Jared Allen and upgrades at defensive end and defensive tackle he could get it done, too.

After all he won TWO SUPER BOWLS. So he MUST be good, right? I mean sure, Gunther had good defenses, but Robinson won TWO SUPER BOWLS! MY GOD!

GET YOUR LIPS OFF GUNTHER'S COCK!

[Logical]

Go back to your Star Wars fantasy, Meatpeeker. Jared Allen is a one dimensional DE. He's a rspectable pass rusher, but sucks against the run. TRY AGAIN. I don't give a crap who's standing on the sideline, the D-Line wouldn't be any more pass rush with a different DC than they did with Gun. If Gun can't run a defense, then explain the mid-90's defense he used to run...That defense was only good every other year, Gun is terribly inconsistent. this was one of the reasons I did not want to bring him here. The other is that he is not very good when he has less than all-world talent playing for him. He does not adjust well and he plays that putrid bend but don't break pass defense. When you have our deficiencies that is a style that won't work out very well.

[nychief]

GET YOUR LIPS OFF GUNTHER'S COCK!


I'd listen to him chiefsaholic, he is does not like people ****ing with his food.

[nychief]

pleasegochief Says that is my cock!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9911/18/web.secrets/knowles.jpg

[FloridaMan88]

ROFL

Robinson himself could have run that defense with success. It was incredibly talented...ridiculously talented.

The Redskins have a rookie corner, a no-name safety, and two retread defensive ends...and they're getting it done.



Can someone tell me why people will throw out EVERY excuse in the book for Gunther, yet not do the same for Robinson?

I'm betting if you gave Robinson Sammy Knight, Patrick Surtain, Derrick Johnson, Jared Allen and upgrades at defensive end and defensive tackle he could get it done, too.

After all he won TWO SUPER BOWLS. So he MUST be good, right? I mean sure, Gunther had good defenses, but Robinson won TWO SUPER BOWLS! MY GOD!

GET YOUR LIPS OFF GUNTHER'S COCK!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm amazed Gunther is able to walk around with all the zombies with their heads up his overrated ass

I'll say it loud and clear for the Gunther zombies who still don't get it...

THE CHIEFS DEFENSE IS STILL TERRIBLE

Gunther, despite having far more talent on defense this year than Greg Robinson ever had, failed to produce a playoff-caliber defense or even an average defense.

And all the Gunther apologists crying about how it takes "a few years" for the players to adapt to Gunther's scheme... that is a load of bullshit. If you want to see an example of why that excuse is bullshit, look at the 2001 St. Louis Rams. After a horrible year, defensively in 2000, they went out and hired Lovie Smith to be the DC, brought in a bunch of new players and in one season their defense improved dramatically, giving up 200 less points than they did in 2000 AND dramatically improving where they ranked in terms of yards allowed per game.

The difference of course is that Lovie Smith is a good defensive coordinator... Gunther is an overrated FRAUD.

[FAX]

What did the Ram's 2001 schedule strength look like, Mr. KCChiefsfan88?

FAX THE INTERESTED IN THIS POINT

[milkman]

Who are the talented players on the D-line you're refeering to? NOBODY... Watch the Bears this weekend and see what a TRUE dominant front 4 can do. Jared Allen is a respectable pass rusher, but is suspect against the run. Our tackles might as well keep their ass on the bench no more pressure than they get on the QB. And Eric Hicks is nothing more than a "nice guy" that Vermeil had a heart on for.

If the Chiefs didn't rush one or two LB's we had no rush at all and the opposing QB could stand in the pocket all freakin day until a WR broke open. JUst line the offense, a defense starts in the trenches as well. We didn't have the players to get the push needed and was forces to improvise the defense to make up for the lack of talent up front.

There's no need to argue this point any further. If you know anything about football, you'de realize the importance of a legit pass rush.

Uh.....Good points.
I agree with everything you just said.

The problem is, I was referring to the defenses that Gun fielded in the 90s that you talked about in your post that I quoted.

He was consistently inconsistent in the 90s with pro bawl quaility talent all over the field.

[tk13]

Gun had the opportunity to add help to the front four. He chose an OLB, $50 million CB, and a safety. That's not how I'd build a D either but I figured with better coverage in the secondary we could blitz and fly around a lot more... of course we didn't end up doing that. But Gun does deserve some credit for our lack of a good front four. Actually probably more blame than DV does... DV at least wanted to add Grant Wistrom.

[ct]

The defense appears to be headed in the right direction. Bob Dole is a little concerned about another shift in focus at this point...

Frankie agrees with Bob Dole.

I also agree.

[Chiefaholic]

Ironic that Meatpeaker speaks of cock in a football discussion. But, since you're so damn sure of yourself that a different coach with a different defensive scheme will definatly improve the defense, I say we make a wager if this happens. In the coming weeks, we'll see what changes are made. If Gun is kept and he gets playmakers on the D-Line, I get to pick your avatar for 6 months after seasons end. If the Chiefs bring in a different DC with a different scheme and the Chiefs improve in the first year, you get to pick mine. Deal?

[Hammock Parties]

Ironic that Meatpeaker speaks of cock in a football discussion. But, since you're so damn sure of yourself that a different coach with a different defensive scheme will definatly improve the defense, I say we make a wager if this happens. In the coming weeks, we'll see what changes are made. If Gun is kept and he gets playmakers on the D-Line, I get to pick your avatar for 6 months after seasons end. If the Chiefs bring in a different DC with a different scheme and the Chiefs improve in the first year, you get to pick mine. Deal?

That'd be a stupid bet for me to accept.

You win when Gunther is retained and we sign a few free agents? I'm not stupid.

Let's wait and see what changes are made this offseason. We'll make a bet before the season starts if you're still up for it.

[nychief]

This is all moot really - Rod Marinelli looks like the guy.

[nychief]

GET YOUR MOUTH OFF ROD'S, ER, ROD!!

[FloridaMan88]

What did the Ram's 2001 schedule strength look like, Mr. KCChiefsfan88?

FAX THE INTERESTED IN THIS POINT

9th hardest schedule in the league

Source:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2001/05/18/nfl2001_strengthofschedule/

[milkman]

This is all moot really - Rod Marinelli looks like the guy.

You got anything more than rumor and speculation to base that on?

[FringeNC]

Ironic that Meatpeaker speaks of cock in a football discussion. But, since you're so damn sure of yourself that a different coach with a different defensive scheme will definatly improve the defense, I say we make a wager if this happens. In the coming weeks, we'll see what changes are made. If Gun is kept and he gets playmakers on the D-Line, I get to pick your avatar for 6 months after seasons end. If the Chiefs bring in a different DC with a different scheme and the Chiefs improve in the first year, you get to pick mine. Deal?

I thought Gun was supposed to improve the D. When he had the same players as Robinson, his D was worse than Robinson's. End of story. You don't get a much cleaner experiment than that. The results are in, and Gun can't even match the pathetic standard put up by Greg Robinson.

When Gun FINALLY gets relieved of his duties here, he will NEVER even be INTERVIEWED for a coordinator's job again.

[FringeNC]

This is all moot really - Rod Marinelli looks like the guy.

Please let that be true. Is that just a guess, or have you heard things up there?

[tk13]

The first key to Marinelli is that he doesn't get hired as a head coach somewhere, which is still very possible. He's interviewed with the Lions and the Rams have some interest I think. Then if that doesn't happen, we've got a good shot... the only other team I could see him going to is Chicago if Ron Rivera leaves, he could go there and be a DC. I think he's going to move up somewhere though. He was Herm's first choice in New York... I can't imagine that would've changed much.

[nychief]

You got anything more than rumor and speculation to base that on?

Tomlin, Marinelli may leave Bucs before next season
JIM BROCKMAN
Herald Staff Writer

TAMPA - The offseason means change for every NFL team. In the era of free agency, players get on the carousel searching for the best deal and the most playing time.

But it's not just quarterbacks, cornerbacks and linebackers who move around. It's time for coaches to consider greener pastures, as well.

For the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, it means in all likelihood some defensive assistant coaches are going to land elsewhere. For now, secondary coach Mike Tomlin and defensive line coach Rod Marinelli seem to be the two Bucs assistants other teams covet the most. The contracts of Tomlin and Marinelli will expire later this month.

Tomlin appears to be the top choice for defensive coordinator in Minnesota now that Ted Cottrell has been fired from the same post by new head coach and former Philadelphia Eagles offensive coordinator Brad Childress. Former Vikings head coach Mike Tice was fired about an hour after the last game of the regular season.

"Mike Tomlin is a candidate in Minnesota," Bucs coach Jon Gruden said Monday at One Buccaneer Place. "Rod Marinelli is a guy that is being sought by several teams. We want to keep them here. And we'll try to do that. At the same time, if an opportunity does present itself to these talented guys, we'll do everything we can to surround ourselves with the most talented people we can."

Over the past few seasons, the Bucs denied Marinelli opportunities to interview for the defensive coordinator positions in Indianapolis, Chicago and with the New York Jets. Marinelli was still under contract with the Bucs and considered too valuable to lose after developing top defensive linemen such as Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice and Greg Spires.

Marinelli joined the Bucs in 1996 along with former Bucs head coach Tony Dungy. It was Dungy who wanted to interview Marinelli for the Colts job. Two other former Bucs assistants who became head coaches also wanted to talk to Marinelli, Herm Edwards with the Jets and Chicago's Lovie Smith.

Now that Edwards is taking over in Kansas City, there's a good chance Marinelli could wind up as defensive coordinator of the Chiefs. Marinelli is also reportedly interviewing for the head coaching job in Detroit, along with at least six other candidates.

"Change is a big part of the offseason," Gruden said. "We've got some talented coaches that are drawing interest from other teams. There are some talented coaches from other teams that are interested in our situation. But I don't want to speculate."

Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin received a contract extension last summer. Linebackers coach Joe Barry, Marinelli's son-in-law, remains under contract. Assistant defensive backs coach Raheem Morris is bound for Kansas State to become its defensive coordinator.

Gruden anticipates keeping his entire offensive coaching staff intact. Quarterbacks coach Paul Hackett and senior assistant Aaron Kromer are under contract. Gruden announced Monday that the contracts of offensive line coach Bill Muir and special teams coach Rich Bisaccia have been extended.

"I do envision our offensive assistants returning," Gruden said. "We're working toward finalizing our staff, although you can never quite finalize it exactly how you want to finalize it. Decisions need to be made. We're going to keep our staff together the best way we can."

The Bucs are working on deals to keep running backs coach Art Valero, receivers coach Richard Mann and tight ends coach Ron Middleton.

[milkman]

Tomlin, Marinelli may leave Bucs before next season
JIM BROCKMAN
Herald Staff Writer

TAMPA - The offseason means change for every NFL team. In the era of free agency, players get on the carousel searching for the best deal and the most playing time.

But it's not just quarterbacks, cornerbacks and linebackers who move around. It's time for coaches to consider greener pastures, as well.

For the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, it means in all likelihood some defensive assistant coaches are going to land elsewhere. For now, secondary coach Mike Tomlin and defensive line coach Rod Marinelli seem to be the two Bucs assistants other teams covet the most. The contracts of Tomlin and Marinelli will expire later this month.

Tomlin appears to be the top choice for defensive coordinator in Minnesota now that Ted Cottrell has been fired from the same post by new head coach and former Philadelphia Eagles offensive coordinator Brad Childress. Former Vikings head coach Mike Tice was fired about an hour after the last game of the regular season.

"Mike Tomlin is a candidate in Minnesota," Bucs coach Jon Gruden said Monday at One Buccaneer Place. "Rod Marinelli is a guy that is being sought by several teams. We want to keep them here. And we'll try to do that. At the same time, if an opportunity does present itself to these talented guys, we'll do everything we can to surround ourselves with the most talented people we can."

Over the past few seasons, the Bucs denied Marinelli opportunities to interview for the defensive coordinator positions in Indianapolis, Chicago and with the New York Jets. Marinelli was still under contract with the Bucs and considered too valuable to lose after developing top defensive linemen such as Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice and Greg Spires.

Marinelli joined the Bucs in 1996 along with former Bucs head coach Tony Dungy. It was Dungy who wanted to interview Marinelli for the Colts job. Two other former Bucs assistants who became head coaches also wanted to talk to Marinelli, Herm Edwards with the Jets and Chicago's Lovie Smith.

Now that Edwards is taking over in Kansas City, there's a good chance Marinelli could wind up as defensive coordinator of the Chiefs. Marinelli is also reportedly interviewing for the head coaching job in Detroit, along with at least six other candidates.

"Change is a big part of the offseason," Gruden said. "We've got some talented coaches that are drawing interest from other teams. There are some talented coaches from other teams that are interested in our situation. But I don't want to speculate."

Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin received a contract extension last summer. Linebackers coach Joe Barry, Marinelli's son-in-law, remains under contract. Assistant defensive backs coach Raheem Morris is bound for Kansas State to become its defensive coordinator.

Gruden anticipates keeping his entire offensive coaching staff intact. Quarterbacks coach Paul Hackett and senior assistant Aaron Kromer are under contract. Gruden announced Monday that the contracts of offensive line coach Bill Muir and special teams coach Rich Bisaccia have been extended.

"I do envision our offensive assistants returning," Gruden said. "We're working toward finalizing our staff, although you can never quite finalize it exactly how you want to finalize it. Decisions need to be made. We're going to keep our staff together the best way we can."

The Bucs are working on deals to keep running backs coach Art Valero, receivers coach Richard Mann and tight ends coach Ron Middleton.

So, you're answer is "NO".

[Skip Towne]

When Gun was fired as our HC, NOBODY would hire him as a DC, not even Marty. And, I think Marty kept him from doing stupid shit when he was our DC in the 90's.

[tk13]

When Gun was fired as our HC, NOBODY would hire him as a DC, not even Marty. And, I think Marty kept him from doing stupid shit when he was our DC in the 90's.
Yeah... Gun's best work has come under Marty and Jeff Fisher... two good defensive coaches. For that reason I wouldn't be livid if for some reason he stayed at DC. With Herm he'd have somebody above him to keep him in line. I like Marinelli and Donnie Henderson though...

[htismaqe]

Who are the talented players on the D-line you're refeering to? NOBODY... Watch the Bears this weekend and see what a TRUE dominant front 4 can do. Jared Allen is a respectable pass rusher, but is suspect against the run. Our tackles might as well keep their ass on the bench no more pressure than they get on the QB. And Eric Hicks is nothing more than a "nice guy" that Vermeil had a heart on for.

If the Chiefs didn't rush one or two LB's we had no rush at all and the opposing QB could stand in the pocket all freakin day until a WR broke open. JUst line the offense, a defense starts in the trenches as well. We didn't have the players to get the push needed and was forces to improvise the defense to make up for the lack of talent up front.

There's no need to argue this point any further. If you know anything about football, you'de realize the importance of a legit pass rush.

ROFL

There's only one legitimate answer here. Gunther is a defensive guru and anybody that disagrees doesn't "know anything about football".

That's so ****ing stupid, it's laughable.

[nychief]

So, you're answer is "NO".


What? Have I spoken to him personally? Do I have inside sources.. no. I have a newspaper article saying it there is a good chance - ya know, like the ones that said Herm might be the chiefs coach. Go play with gochief.

[FAX]

I say we send him up to Lovie for a refresher course, give him a couple of pass-rushing, meat-eating, take-no-prisoners, middle d linemen and give him one more chance.

FAX

[htismaqe]

I say we send him up to Lovie for a refresher course, give him a couple of pass-rushing, meat-eating, take-no-prisoners, middle d linemen and give him one more chance.

FAX

Like that will do any good.

Lovie's defensive philosophy is the polar opposite of Gunther's.

Lovie's defense is about execution, precision. It's simple, streamlined, and no nonsense.

Gunther's defense is complex, contains thousands of plays, relies on smoke and mirrors, blitzing, and confusion.

[FAX]

Like that will do any good.

Lovie's defensive philosophy is the polar opposite of Gunther's.

Lovie's defense is about execution, precision. It's simple, streamlined, and no nonsense.

Gunther's defense is complex, contains thousands of plays, relies on smoke and mirrors, blitzing, and confusion.

I never said it was a "perfect" plan.

FAX

[htismaqe]

By the way, King Carl was on 610 tonight and he was absolutely emphatic - Herm will be selecting his own staff.

Carl said he would make "recommendations" and he hinted strongly that it was on the offensive side of the ball, but he said that the decision was Herm's and Herm's alone...

[htismaqe]

I never said it was a "perfect" plan.

FAX

:thumb:

[Coach]

By the way, King Carl was on 610 tonight and he was absolutely emphatic - Herm will be selecting his own staff.

Carl said he would make "recommendations" and he hinted strongly that it was on the offensive side of the ball, but he said that the decision was Herm's and Herm's alone...

Holy cow. Why would Carl want to make some "recommendations" on the offensive side, where it has been fairly pretty good?

I would had made some recommendations on the defensive side, especially that the defense have been teh sux for almost some 5 years now.

[FringeNC]

Like that will do any good.

Lovie's defensive philosophy is the polar opposite of Gunther's.

Lovie's defense is about execution, precision. It's simple, streamlined, and no nonsense.

Gunther's defense is complex, contains thousands of plays, relies on smoke and mirrors, blitzing, and confusion.

Seriously, what is Gunther's D? Is it attack? Is it soft zone? Man-to-man? Every year seems to bring a completely different D. This year's D looked very similar to Robinson's D.

[FringeNC]

Holy cow. Why would Carl want to make some "recommendations" on the offensive side, where it has been fairly pretty good?

I would had made some recommendations on the defensive side, especially that the defense have been teh sux for almost some 5 years now.

I'd assume Carl's recommendations were to not **** with it.

[FAX]

I'd assume Carl's recommendations were to not **** with it.

I have an interest in this point as well.

Let's say that AS leaves for some reason (money, pissed, finds an HC position, whatever). Then, let's say that we bring in a new OC. Clearly, the intelligent thing to do is - and as the Herminator has already stated - to avoid changes to the offense because it isn't broken. Wouldn't a new OC naturally bring in modifications or changes to the scheme? Do we get to keep Al's playbook? Is Norv the only viable OC candidate who knows and can coach this scheme?

FAX THE HAS AN INTEREST IN THIS POINT AS WELL

[htismaqe]

Seriously, what is Gunther's D? Is it attack? Is it soft zone? Man-to-man? Every year seems to bring a completely different D. This year's D looked very similar to Robinson's D.

Exactly.

Look at the whole of Gunther's work as a DC and HC.

He's NEVER been truly successful in consecutive years. It's almost as if he just can't leave it alone, he's always got to be changing something.

[htismaqe]

Holy cow. Why would Carl want to make some "recommendations" on the offensive side, where it has been fairly pretty good?

I would had made some recommendations on the defensive side, especially that the defense have been teh sux for almost some 5 years now.

I'm quite certain that the suggestion he's making on the offensive side is "take one of the guys already here and don't mess with it."

[htismaqe]

I have an interest in this point as well.

Let's say that AS leaves for some reason (money, pissed, finds an HC position, whatever). Then, let's say that we bring in a new OC. Clearly, the intelligent thing to do is - and as the Herminator has already stated - to avoid changes to the offense because it isn't broken. Wouldn't a new OC naturally bring in modifications or changes to the scheme? Do we get to keep Al's playbook? Is Norv the only viable OC candidate who knows and can coach this scheme?

FAX THE HAS AN INTEREST IN THIS POINT AS WELL

Vermeil said himself that Mike Solari is ready to be an offensive coordinator in this league.

He's the guy I want.

[FAX]

Vermeil said himself that Mike Solari is ready to be an offensive coordinator in this league.

He's the guy I want.

Thanks, Mr. htismaqe, I agree with you on that ... but that isn't really my question.

I'm seriously devoid of knowledge about how this might work if we have to bring someone in from the outside.

FAX THE SERIOUSLY DEVOID OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW THIS MIGHT WORK

[FringeNC]

Exactly.

Look at the whole of Gunther's work as a DC and HC.

He's NEVER been truly successful in consecutive years. It's almost as if he just can't leave it alone, he's always got to be changing something.

...which makes the argument that we have to give Gun's system time to work even more ridiculous, given that Gun's system changes from year-to-year.

[htismaqe]

Thanks, Mr. htismaqe, I agree with you on that ... but that isn't really my question.

I'm seriously devoid of knowledge about how this might work if we have to bring someone in from the outside.

FAX THE SERIOUSLY DEVOID OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW THIS MIGHT WORK

Al Saunder's system is just that - his system. It's different than Martz', even though Vermeil was the HC both times.

I think it's probably safe to say that no matter who we bring in, even if it's Norv Turner, or Solari or Shea, the offense is gonna change, even if it's only subtle.

[htismaqe]

And I guess I should mention that the IDEAL situation would be for Saunders to be the OC.

I just don't see how that's gonna happen. I just don't see any way the guy doesn't get a HC gig.

Furthermore, with this many openings, if he doesn't get a HC gig, it would make me wonder if we really WANT him back. I mean, is there something wrong with him that we don't know?

[FAX]

So, let's say that black lightning comes down from the heavens and strikes Mike Solari square in the brainpan.

Then, let's say that all the other current Chiefs offensive assistants contract a venerial disease that renders them unable to both procreate and utter complete sentences.

Then, let's say that we have to go out and find another OC. We have an awesome offense with tremendous talent and we don't want to make changes that detract from what has been built so far. We want to keep the offensive scheme intact so that Trent is comfortable and can operate it properly.

You're saying that there are really no candidates that can do that? And, if they can't or we can't hire them for some reason, we're stuck? A new OC can't take over where AS leaves off without making changes? I wonder what effect that would have on our offensive production.

FAX THE WONDERING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF BLACK LIGHTNING STRIKES ON OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION

[FloridaMan88]

Furthermore, with this many openings, if he doesn't get a HC gig, it would make me wonder if we really WANT him back. I mean, is there something wrong with him that we don't know?

What we DO now about Al Saunders is he's coordinated one of the best offenses in the league the past 4 years or so.

That is good enough for me

[htismaqe]

So, let's say that black lightning comes down from the heavens and strikes Mike Solari square in the brainpan.

Then, let's say that all the other current Chiefs offensive assistants contract a venerial disease that renders them unable to both procreate and utter complete sentences.

Then, let's say that we have to go out and find another OC. We have an awesome offense with tremendous talent and we don't want to make changes that detract from what has been built so far. We want to keep the offensive scheme intact so that Trent is comfortable and can operate it properly.

You're saying that there are really no candidates that can do that? And, if they can't or we can't hire them for some reason, we're stuck? A new OC can't take over where AS leaves off without making changes? I wonder what effect that would have on our offensive production.

FAX THE WONDERING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF BLACK LIGHTNING STRIKES ON OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION

Even Solari or Shea is gonna put their own stamp on the offense. One would imagine that the changes would be very subtle, but again, they might be pronounced.

I definitely think there's some guys outside the organization that we could bring in to keep this offense intact. Norv Turner is one. Cam Cameron is another.

If you want to dig a little deeper, there's Coryell coaching tree guys like Clarence Shelmon (Chargers' RB coach, was in Dallas under Norv Turner as RB coach) and Steve Fairchild (Rams' OC, coached at SDSU).

I don't think bringing in someone from the outside guarantees the offense will have to be scrapped anymore than I believe hiring one of the guys already here guarantees it will be kept intact.

It's GOING to change. The question is, how much?

[htismaqe]

What we DO now about Al Saunders is he's coordinated one of the best offenses in the league the past 4 years or so.

That is good enough for me

I was just thinking out loud.

I don't think there's much of any chance he returns to KC in any capacity.

[BigChiefFan]

Even Solari or Shea is gonna put their own stamp on the offense. One would imagine that the changes would be very subtle, but again, they might be pronounced.

I definitely think there's some guys outside the organization that we could bring in to keep this offense intact. Norv Turner is one. Cam Cameron is another.

If you want to dig a little deeper, there's Coryell coaching tree guys like Clarence Shelmon (Chargers' RB coach, was in Dallas under Norv Turner as RB coach) and Steve Fairchild (Rams' OC, coached at SDSU).

I don't think bringing in someone from the outside guarantees the offense will have to be scrapped anymore than I believe hiring one of the guys already here guarantees it will be kept intact.

It's GOING to change. The question is, how much?
I believe Cam Cameron is the O-Coordinator for the Chargers, if so and he's still under contract, I don't believe he's allowed to make a lateral move-NFL Rules.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Watched the sports, Lenny reported that Herm only expects the search for assistant coached to only last a few days.

I don't think it'll go that fast, though.

[htismaqe]

I believe Cam Cameron is the O-Coordinator for the Chargers, if so and he's still under contract, I don't believe he's allowed to make a lateral move-NFL Rules.

I know that.

He wanted to know if there was ANYBODY out there that could do it.