Lamar Hunt: Winning versus Profit

[Rain Man]

How many of you really believe that Lamar Hunt is happy making money and doesn't care about winning a Super Bowl?

[Mr. Laz]

i believe he cares about winning a super bowl ... just not as much as consistent profits.

[Johnson&Johnson]

I think someone should whisper in his ear that it's SUPERBOWL 40 this year.

It was 37 superbowls ago that he held the Lombardi trophy...

[PastorMikH]

I think Lamar would like the SB, but wants the profits too. If the Chiefs can win the SB while showing profit, I think he'd be happy.

[Rain Man]

I have a hard time believing that a 120 year-old man like Lamar, a man who created the American Football League, and a man who devoted years of his life to building the game of football, AND a man who has untold millions of dollars, is happy making a profit over winning a Super Bowl. All this talk of "Carl filling the seats and that's all Lamar wants" is starting to annoy me. When you add age and history and wealth together, I think there's zero possibility that that theory is correct.

Pick on Lamar for betting on a losing horse every year, and for bad judgment, but I just can't believe that he's up there being C. Montgomery Burns and rubbing his hands together over a big pile of money while the Chiefs go home every December.

There. I said it.

[PastorMikH]

Yeah Kev, but he also isn't down there like Jerry Jones (for example) asking, what do I need to do to win it all, I'm willing to pay, either.


Edit: I realize he has shelled out some cash, but he's also tolerated a lot of mediocracy over the years. Even with Carl.

[Calcountry]

Yeah Kev, but he also isn't down there like Jerry Jones (for example) asking, what do I need to do to win it all, I'm willing to pay, either.


Edit: I realize he has shelled out some cash, but he's also tolerated a lot of mediocracy over the years. Even with Carl.Exactly why I game him a C instead of an F.

Pros for Lamar, he invented football, he won a super bowl when I was a todler.

Cons for Lamar: Hired Steadman, and Carl Peterson and is invisible except for when someone retires or the camera zooms in on his luxury box. I don't live in KC so I don't know how involved he is with philanthropic events. But please, tell me why he allows Arrowheads sod to be beaten to shit by a soccer team and college and who knows what else during football season?

[Sully]

I think 2 words can adequately answer this question...

Jack Steadman

[jspchief]

I don't think it's neccessarily choosing money over winning.

I think he wants desperately to win, but doesn't believe that Superbowls can be bought. History supports that.

[Calcountry]

I don't think it's neccessarily choosing money over winning.

I think he wants desperately to win, but doesn't believe that Superbowls can be bought. History supports that.Ever hear of a guy named Steinbrenner?

[kcfanXIII]

i think maybe carl is taking him for a ride. like carl wants profits, and he's kinda pulling the wool over lamar's eyes. mr hunt may be too old to really know whats going on. some one call the better buissness bureau on carl peterson, he's taking advantage of the elderly.

[Rain Man]

I ask all of you. If you were 141 years old and getting thinner every year, and you had more dollars than a Star Wars gross less concessions sales, and there was a trophy out there in the top sport in America that had your name on it, and you hadn't laid a hand on that trophy since Reconstruction when your starting quarterback was J.E.B. Stuart, would you not at some point take a pass for a while on eating thawed woolly mammoth steaks acquired by sending teams to remote parts of Siberia and into ice chasms from the time of the Neanderthals and instead put that money into figuring out a way for you to hoist the trophy and grin while John Madden blurts out nonsensical emphatic terms with exclamation points while he hands you not only that trophy, but also the trophy named after that guy who beat you in Super Bowl I back when linemen weighed 225 pounds and kickers were born in this country and played linebacker most of the time? Huh? Huh?

Lamar is spending everything he can up to the salary cap. He's not the old Bengals or Cardinals who are leaving millions of open dollars under the cap so they can pay to watch figure skater Katarina Witt and former Family Ties costar Justine Bateman mud-wrestle naked on their South American estates. He's spending all of the money on the football team that he's allowed. His only problem is that the talent evaluators haven't produced the best team for the money.

[Rain Man]

i think maybe carl is taking him for a ride. like carl wants profits, and he's kinda pulling the wool over lamar's eyes. mr hunt may be too old to really know whats going on. some one call the better buissness bureau on carl peterson, he's taking advantage of the elderly.

"Mr. Hunt, I've just done a free inspection of Arrowhead Stadium for you, and I'm sorry to say that you need a new roof."

[Hammock Parties]

Lamar wants to win. He's just not cutthroat enough to fire Carl Peterson.

Hopefully Clark is.

[tk13]

Winning would mean more profit... especially with the Chiefs fanbase as crazy as it is. I mean we haven't done crap in years and we're all still here, can you imagine how much money he'd make if we won a couple Super Bowls?

[Calcountry]

I ask all of you. If you were 141 years old and getting thinner every year, and you had more dollars than a Star Wars gross less concessions sales, and there was a trophy out there in the top sport in America that had your name on it, and you hadn't laid a hand on that trophy since Reconstruction when your starting quarterback was J.E.B. Stuart, would you not at some point take a pass for a while on eating thawed woolly mammoth steaks acquired by sending teams to remote parts of Siberia and into ice chasms from the time of the Neanderthals and instead put that money into figuring out a way for you to hoist the trophy and grin while John Madden blurts out nonsensical emphatic terms with exclamation points while he hands you not only that trophy, but also the trophy named after that guy who beat you in Super Bowl I back when linemen weighed 225 pounds and kickers were born in this country and played linebacker most of the time? Huh? Huh?

Lamar is spending everything he can up to the salary cap. He's not the old Bengals or Cardinals who are leaving millions of open dollars under the cap so they can pay to watch figure skater Katarina Witt and former Family Ties costar Justine Bateman mud-wrestle naked on their South American estates. He's spending all of the money on the football team that he's allowed. His only problem is that the talent evaluators haven't produced the best team for the money.I liken this to the Presidential race of 1996, Bill Clinton(horney and hungry for more) Versus Bob(can't get it up without viagra)Dole.

At some point when you get older, you just can't care that much any more, about a whole lot of things, not just football. Don't believe me, just ask Skip.

[Calcountry]

Winning would mean more profit... especially with the Chiefs fanbase as crazy as it is. I mean we haven't done crap in years and we're all still here, can you imagine how much money he'd make if we won a couple Super Bowls?Ask yourself if we have the leadership in this organization to make that a REALITY? I am tired of the dream, I want to act it out in the real world.

[Johnson&Johnson]

1989
Lamar: Carl, I am confident you can bring the people in KC a superbowl and make my organization profitable.
Carl: That's why I hired Marty. And if this kid from Alabama falls to our pick at 4th, we've got a franchise player to build on

1993
Lamar: Carl, People in KC wants more than just an early playoff exit
Carl: I think we will win a SB, Montana is worth our 1st round pick. I say we do the trade.

1997
Lamar: Carl, I thought you said we'd be SB bound with Joe and Marcus?
Carl: We have the talent, maybe the problem is our head coach. I'll try and get him to resign. I can't fire him. After all he's gotten us 8 straight winning seasons.

2000
Lamar: Carl, I thought you said Gunther was the answer to our inability to play tough football in post-season and win?
Carl: I know, I know but you can't discount the fact that Derrick's death impacted this whole organization. I have a person that can resurrect our spirits (both players and coaches).

2001
Lamar: You positive that Dick will unretire again to coach KC?
Carl: We go way back. If anyone can do it, I can.
Lamar: You sure thats all, a 3rd & 4th round compensation for Dick?
Carl: Actually, we need to give up our 1st round pick as well because we need Dick's guy - Trent

2004
Lamar: This #1 offense thing is nice but we're still not winning playoff games and where's the SB?
Carl: Ok. I promise you Mr. Hunt that after this renewal of my contract, I will retire.

2006
Lamar: I thought you said that it was the last time we trade draft picks for coaches?
Carl: Herman is what you've always wanted. I know it took me 17 years to figure this out but what you got to loose. I am on my last stint.

[cdcox]

I've mentioned the book "The Game" that chronicles the history of the emergence of the NFL as America's premire sports league. Not surprisingly there is much in there about Lamar during the formative years of the AFL.

What comes across more than anything is the determination of the man. He tried for years to get an expansion franchise in the NFL, but could never get one. When this became apparent, did he give up? No, he started his own league. In order to twart the new league, the NFL launched an expansion franchise in Dallas. Lamar fought it out for a few years, then with no clear winner for the city of Dallas in sight, he moved to Kansas City. When the NFL got a monster TV contract that would guarantee them financial viability, the AFL, led by Lamar was right behind. This was critical in order to fund the ensuing war over draft choices. The lengths that Lamar went to in order to ensure the viability of the league are legendary. KC was one of the most effective teams in signing coveted draft choices away from the NFL. Lamar also was the key person in negotiating the merger with the NFL. It was no mistake that we won the SB back then. We had talent galore, and determination marked everything about the organization. Lamar found a way, he was unstoppable. His enemies in the NFL hated him because of this determination.

I can't say since we won the SB that I've seen that kind of determination. For a period of 15 years he was very complacent with lots of losing. Sure he'd like to win another SB, and I think he would sacrifice short term profit if he thought there was some way to trade $ for a significantly better chance at the SB, but I don't think you can argue that he has the same level of fire that he once did. I think he needed the NFL as an arch nemisis to spur him on. Once he won that battle, there were no challenges left.

[Mr. Laz]

Winning would mean more profit... especially with the Chiefs fanbase as crazy as it is. I mean we haven't done crap in years and we're all still here, can you imagine how much money he'd make if we won a couple Super Bowls?
only to a point

with the NFL's profit sharing etc ... winning/losing is severely diluted after a certain point.

you must win enough to keep the fans interested and buying tickets but after that ...


parking/concessions/merchandise are the independent money makers.

parking and concessions are handled by "winning enough"

that's a big reason why parking is $20 at arrowhead because the money made by parking isn't shared with the other teams. The chiefs are trying to increase their piece of the pie by charging more for parking.




merchandise is really the main place where "excessive" winning can make a difference.


a point can be made the the risk involved trying to get "excessive" winning isn't worth the risk of losing "interest" from the fans if you go 4-12 when something doesn't work.

[Toad]

I think would find it hard to believe that he wants $ over a Super Bowl. His problem is the 17yr - 5yr plan man.

On a similar side note, though, did anyone see the stat on ESPN last night that the Chiefs were in 4th place for the longest playoff win drought with no PO victories since '94. We are on the verge of going into 3rd with a Seattle win. Salsbury even said it was surprising to see the Chiefs that high on the list.

The timely, "Dammit Carl!" comes to mind.

[tk13]

only to a point

with the NFL's profit sharing etc ... winning/losing is severely diluted after a certain point.

you must win enough to keep the fans interested and buying tickets but after that ...


parking/concessions/merchandise are the independent money makers.

parking and concessions are handled by "winning enough"

that's a big reason why parking is $20 at arrowhead because the money made by parking isn't shared with the other teams. The chiefs are trying to increase their piece of the pie by charging more for parking.




merchandise is really the main place where "excessive" winning can make a difference.


a point can be made the the risk involved trying to get "excessive" winning isn't worth the risk of losing "interest" from the fans if you go 4-12 when something doesn't work.
Annnnd luxury boxes. That's where the money is made.

It really makes no logical sense, because you're right, there's a salary cap and a lot of revenue is shared. We already spend pretty much up to the cap, and had one of the biggest, highest paid coaching staffs in the league. How much more can we spend to directly affect the team? We've almost maxed that out. It's not like we're saving money there, so why wouldn't we be trying to win? That would be stupid, just spending money just to spend it, it'd be going against the logic that they were just trying to turn a profit.

[Eleazar]

Lamar wants to win. Carl does too. Unfortunately the competence hasn't always been there. Varying degrees of bad luck also seem to be there pretty often.

[Logical]

How many of you really believe that Lamar Hunt is happy making money and doesn't care about winning a Super Bowl?
He has won one Super Bowl and I think he is now happy winning and making the bucks. He is smart enough to know he will make a bigger profit if the team at least wins.

[KS Smitty]

He has won one Super Bowl and I think he is now happy winning and making the bucks. He is smart enough to know he will make a bigger profit if the team at least wins.

I think Vlad is right here. Lamar already has done so much for the AFC(L),the merger of the NFC/AFC, his team made the first ever Superbowl, won number IV and has the AFC trophy named after him. The real question, IMO, is what will Clark want his legacy to be? Will he be happy to cash in on Daddy's success or will he want to create one of his own? I'm not saying Lamar doesn't want another Superbowl (or Lamar trophy for that matter) but he is old enough now to feel comfortable to rest on his laurels, it's up to the next generation to kick it up a notch.

[Logical]

Just one other thought to those who would say Lamar spends all he is allowed.

1. 2004 we play the season 5=8 mil under the cap
2. 2004 we sign no major players due do cash flow (LMAO Lamar is a billionaire, if he goes cash negative temporarily he cannot afford it? Give me a break)
3. Prior to 98 do we really know the Chiefs spent even close to the cap limit, as far as I can recall it was not being talked about until 98?

Just some things to consider.:hmmm:

[Rain Man]

Annnnd luxury boxes. That's where the money is made.

It really makes no logical sense, because you're right, there's a salary cap and a lot of revenue is shared. We already spend pretty much up to the cap, and had one of the biggest, highest paid coaching staffs in the league. How much more can we spend to directly affect the team? We've almost maxed that out. It's not like we're saving money there, so why wouldn't we be trying to win? That would be stupid, just spending money just to spend it, it'd be going against the logic that they were just trying to turn a profit.


(Smacking forehead) Paying off the refs! After watching the Denver-New England game, it's obvious! Lamar isn't paying off the refs!

[SLAG]

....I don't live in KC so I don't know how involved he is with philanthropic events.


Lamar Does not Live in KC either,

He Still lives in Dallas.


His players are involved in quite a bit of charity's and whatnots

[jspchief]

Ever hear of a guy named Steinbrenner?Yea, but I must have forgot how many Superbowls he's won.

[Mecca]

I'll just add awhile back when they were trying to get the bi-state thing passed. Lamar was on Kietzman's show and KK asked him "would you take a year where you break even and make no profit to win the superbowl?"

Lamars response was "That's not how we operate our franchise."