RIAA: Backup copies are not legal

[Hammock Parties]

I'd sacrifice my life to destroy them.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060215-6190.html

With regards to the argument that the DMCA is bad law because it prevents users from making backups, the joint reply dismissed such arguments as "uncompelling." First, they argue that there is no evidence that "any of the relevant media are 'unusually subject to damage in the ordinary course of their use.'"

The [submitted arguments in favor of granting exemptions to the DMCA] provide no arguments or legal authority that making back up copies of CDs is a noninfringing use. In addition, the submissions provide no evidence that access controls are currently preventing them from making back up copies of CDs or that they are likely to do so in the future. Myriad online downloading services are available and offer varying types of digital rights management alternatives. For example, the Apple FairPlay technology allows users to make a limited number of copies for personal use. Presumably, consumers concerned with the ability to make back up copies would choose to purchase music from a service that allowed such copying. Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices. Similar to the motion picture industry, the recording industry has faced, in online piracy, a direct attack on its ability to enjoy its copyrights. (emphasis added)

So, to summarize, backup copies are unnecessary because:

- DVDs and CDs do not "have a high failure rate," and therefore backups are not required. The RIAA seems to be missing the point behind backups in the first place.

- You can always buy the stuff again! So, basically, they're saying that when you buy their products, you're not allowed to make a backup, and your only option when their piece of shit product stops working is to buy it again!

[JBucc]

I don't have backups since I never bought the CD to begin with

[PastorMikH]

If they don't want me to make backups, the industry better be willing to supply me with a free replacement when the product fails. Especially at $20 a pop for Kids DVDs that they scratch up and $15 for CDs that get carried everywhere (regardless of how careful you are, they are going to get wear and tear.)

Personally, my opinion is if I own a copy of the song that I legally bought (regardless of format), I should be able to have a digital copy of that same music/video. I realize the recording industry does not have this same view. To them, I should have to pay full price every time I listen to the song or watch the movie, and I should also be willing to pay rent on their stuff on the days I am not using it.

[Fire Me Boy!]

I have come here many times in defense of copyright laws... I have to say I do NOT have a problem with "backup" copies, as long as they are legit. However, most "backup" copies are not backups. They are being used elsewhere, on another player, or as JBucc illustrated, someone entirely different than the person who made the "backup."

As an artist, my disdain for software/music/film pirates is that you are stealing from me. It's theft. I worked hard to make whatever it is that you are ostensibly enjoying. You owe it to me to pay for it. If you have an illegal "backup," what you are doing is nothing short of thievery.

Before anyone accuses me... no, I do not copy CDs or movies or software. Everything I have is legal.

[Fire Me Boy!]

As far as replacements, I agree with PastorMikH... if the industry forbids backups, they need to allow for replacements. Again, I dont' have a problem with backups, as long as they are used as backups for the people that paid for the item to begin with.

[the Talking Can]

the RIAA is about as smart as Britney Spears....

[KcMizzou]

I'd sacrifice my life to destroy them.
ROFL :thumb:

[ArrowheadHawk]

backups may not be legal but they sure are fun :) :thumb:

[Pants]

As an artist, my disdain for software/music/film pirates is that you are stealing from me. It's theft. I worked hard to make whatever it is that you are ostensibly enjoying. You owe it to me to pay for it. If you have an illegal "backup," what you are doing is nothing short of thievery.

As an artist you wouldn't give a shit. As a businessman, you do.

[Fire Me Boy!]

As an artist you wouldn't give a shit. As a businessman, you do.
OK... you're right. Perhaps my perspective is different because I'm an artist and this directly affects my work.

[Pants]

OK... you're right. Perhaps my perspective is different because I'm an artist and this directly affects my work.

What have you done that's been stolen/pirated/etc?

If I like something enough, be it music or film, I'll buy it on DVD or a CD. If I want to watch it just to see it, I'll download it (if I'm not too lazy), watch it and delete it.

[JBucc]

I don't like downloading movies(well, real movies), I like to have all the special editons and extra features plus I like to have the box.

[Bugeater]

What does this mean exactly? Does the RIAA not want us to be able to burn cds anymore? If so, how the hell are they going to stop us?

[Hammock Parties]

What does this mean exactly? Does the RIAA not want us to be able to burn cds anymore? If so, how the hell are they going to stop us?

That's the amusing thing. They are powerless. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Fire Me Boy!]

What have you done that's been stolen/pirated/etc?

If I like something enough, be it music or film, I'll buy it on DVD or a CD. If I want to watch it just to see it, I'll download it (if I'm not too lazy), watch it and delete it.
Nothing. It's a mindset for me and why I refuse to be a pirate myself. It's one of those things that doesn't affect me right now, but (hopefully) will. And I suspect that you are in minority if you would buy something after pirating it... most will pirate and never pay for it.

[Pants]

Nothing. It's a mindset for me and why I refuse to be a pirate myself. It's one of those things that doesn't affect me right now, but (hopefully) will. And I suspect that you are in minority if you would buy something after pirating it... most will pirate and never pay for it.

I don't know, all 3 of my roommates have huge DVD libraries.

[Rausch]

Is the RIAA looking to find a happy middle ground?

No.

Did the price of DVD's/CD's drop with cost?

No.

Have fun at dinner with Metallica and the rest of the "fighting a losing battle" club...

[Eleazar]

I think that it's ridiculous to argue that you aren't stealing when you don't pay for music that's copyright protected, but telling people they can't make backup copies is going too far.

[Mr. Laz]

lots of companies build/sell products with the idea of charging for replacements when they fail.

this replacement for failed CD's is never gonna fly.


that said ... f**k the RIAA they are full of crap and i don't feel sorry for the money they lose in the least. They rip off the artists as much, if not more, than they say the consumers do them.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Whoever said this, or authorized its release should be summarily fired. There is Supreme Court Precedent that allows the making of backup copies, that's the reason why we all had VCRs and can now have DVD recorders. Just a catastrophically stupid statement, I hope whoever released this was just talking from their ass and not their brain, because if so, well the two probably aren't far apart for them.

[Mosbonian]

I have come here many times in defense of copyright laws... I have to say I do NOT have a problem with "backup" copies, as long as they are legit. However, most "backup" copies are not backups. They are being used elsewhere, on another player, or as JBucc illustrated, someone entirely different than the person who made the "backup."

As an artist, my disdain for software/music/film pirates is that you are stealing from me. It's theft. I worked hard to make whatever it is that you are ostensibly enjoying. You owe it to me to pay for it. If you have an illegal "backup," what you are doing is nothing short of thievery.

Before anyone accuses me... no, I do not copy CDs or movies or software. Everything I have is legal.

FMB....

While you don't pirate anything musically, I do have a question....

When you get an extra dollar back in change because the clerk screwed up, do you go back in and refund the money?

When you're doing your taxes and it comes to the part where you list your charitable contributions, do you "fudge" just a little to get a break on your taxes?

Have you ever rented a movie from Blockbuster and ran home and watched it...then took it back there and claimed that it was defective and you want another rental in it's place since there is not another copy in the store?

Have you ever gone to a nice hotel and taken home something from the room like a towel, bath robe, pillow, and not paid for it?

These are just several of the ways people "steal" from the businesses and never think about it. I refuse to categorize all musicians this way, but I find it amusing when I hear musicians talk about stealing when some of them are the worst when it comes to "5 finger freebies" especially from hotel rooms.

mmaddog
*******

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Musicians like Metallica can go f*ck themselves when they bring up shit like 'file sharing is stealing'. WTF do you think is paying for the shit in those 'free' $15,000 grab bags of shit that mark ass celebrities get to showing up for third rate awards shows.

God F*ck that pisses me off.

[unlurking]

I thought Hannibal had a pretty interesting article over there as well, dealing with how much larger the tech industry is than the content industry and how they could crush DRM and Hollywood if they wanted to.

The discussion on the forum was very enlightening as well.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060220-6218.html

[Eleazar]

When you get an extra dollar back in change because the clerk screwed up, do you go back in and refund the money?

When you're doing your taxes and it comes to the part where you list your charitable contributions, do you "fudge" just a little to get a break on your taxes?

Have you ever rented a movie from Blockbuster and ran home and watched it...then took it back there and claimed that it was defective and you want another rental in it's place since there is not another copy in the store?

Have you ever gone to a nice hotel and taken home something from the room like a towel, bath robe, pillow, and not paid for it?


Who even does this kind of stuff?

f*ck no I don't cheat on my taxes. What is the point of perjuring to save yourself a miniscule couple of bucks? Unless you are "fudging" from $100 to $10,000 or something. That isn't what I would call a "fudge"

[Logical]

As far as replacements, I agree with PastorMikH... if the industry forbids backups, they need to allow for replacements. Again, I dont' have a problem with backups, as long as they are used as backups for the people that paid for the item to begin with.OK now you are sound more reasonable, when you were talking illegal backups there for a moment I thought you had went off the deep end along with the RIAA.

[Eleazar]

I refuse to categorize all musicians this way, but I find it amusing when I hear musicians talk about stealing when some of them are the worst when it comes to "5 finger freebies" especially from hotel rooms.


Is Metallica doing a lot of ripping off of little shampoo bottles and hand towels from hotel rooms?

[KChiefsQT]

Limewire

[Mosbonian]

Who even does this kind of stuff?

f*ck no I don't cheat on my taxes. What is the point of perjuring to save yourself a miniscule couple of bucks? Unless you are "fudging" from $100 to $10,000 or something. That isn't what I would call a "fudge"

You'd be surprised how many people play with those numbers...just because you do not doesn't mean it doesn't happen...you'd be surprised what people will do for small savings.

You're acting like nobody ever forgets to take back that $1 or $5 dollar bill they mistakenly got back in change.....or tried to get a freebie from the movie rental place(BTW, I worked part-time at a movie rental store and you'd be surprised what people do to get freebies)....or "steals" in some other fashion. Stealing is stealing...

mmaddog
*******

[Mosbonian]

Is Metallica doing a lot of ripping off of little shampoo bottles and hand towels from hotel rooms?

Screw the shampoo.....what, you thinks it's ok to steal hand towels, towels, bath robes from the hotels? It's still stealing and has to be replaced.....

When I worked for Pillowtex we had customers who supplied Bed & Bath related items to the Hospitality industry....one of our better customers had a client that was a large Hotel chain and they had a standing order of 1000 towels a month just to replace the ones that got stolen on a regular basis.

mmaddog
*******

[Eleazar]

You'd be surprised how many people play with those numbers...just because you do not doesn't mean it doesn't happen...you'd be surprised what people will do for small savings.

Your original construct doesn't make any sense, that's what I was pointing out. Why would anyone risk it to change the number a small amount? That's dumb.


You're acting like nobody ever forgets to take back that $1 or $5 dollar bill they mistakenly got back in change.....


Forgetting to do something is not the same as intentionally ripping off stuff.

[Mosbonian]

Your original construct doesn't make any sense, that's what I was pointing out. Why would anyone risk it to change the number a small amount? That's dumb..


And the whole world is smart?


Forgetting to do something is not the same as intentionally ripping off stuff.

Forgetting....c'mon not even you believe that statement.

mmaddog
*******

[ILChief]

Metallica pisses me off. I download music from itunes. I have no problem paying 99 cents for a song I want. I like some of Metallica's music. There are probably 10-15 Metallica songs I'd like to have. I'd gladly pay 10-15 bucks to download them all from iTunes, but these ass hats won't allow itunes to sell their songs inidividually. I'd have to pay itunes $10/album or a record store $15-$20/per album for five or six albums. There's no way I'm paying $100 when all I want is around ten songs. They are the only group I know of that won't sell their songs individually.

They can suck it. In fact, Metallica songs are now the ONLY ones I'd download illegally just cuz they're a bunch of jackasses.

[irishjayhawk]

By the way, earlier this year if not late last year, they came out and said that iTunes was undercharging at $1 a song. They claim that isn't enough.

Seriously, the people behind the RIAA should be rounded up and shot in the head.

The thing about this that gets me is that the RIAA wants to stop piracy but they don't give the artists one cent more. Moreover, the artists themselves (the ones they try to get on "their" side) are appearing on MTV Cribs. I mean that makes it so hard to sympathize when they make it on Cribs.

FWIW, I buy all my movies. I think I have downloaded one (X-men 2) long ago, before it was out on dvd. I then bought it on DVD, go figure.

[Logical]

You'd be surprised how many people play with those numbers...just because you do not doesn't mean it doesn't happen...you'd be surprised what people will do for small savings.

You're acting like nobody ever forgets to take back that $1 or $5 dollar bill they mistakenly got back in change.....or tried to get a freebie from the movie rental place(BTW, I worked part-time at a movie rental store and you'd be surprised what people do to get freebies)....or "steals" in some other fashion. Stealing is stealing...

mmaddog
*******

I admit I might not take it back, but it is because I just stuff the bills in my wallet and don't even pay attention. They just as likely have ripped me off. As to taxes, don't exactly cheat. I hand over so much in donations every year that if I am say going to hit the next tax break point by claiming 2 dollars less in charitable deductions I will go ahead and write down the extra 2 bucks and get that little break. I probably gave much more than that. I never claim more than max you can claim if you don't have receipts without receipts, yet I know I give away far more than that $400 limit every year.

[Fire Me Boy!]

FMB....

While you don't pirate anything musically, I do have a question....

When you get an extra dollar back in change because the clerk screwed up, do you go back in and refund the money?

When you're doing your taxes and it comes to the part where you list your charitable contributions, do you "fudge" just a little to get a break on your taxes?

Have you ever rented a movie from Blockbuster and ran home and watched it...then took it back there and claimed that it was defective and you want another rental in it's place since there is not another copy in the store?

Have you ever gone to a nice hotel and taken home something from the room like a towel, bath robe, pillow, and not paid for it?

These are just several of the ways people "steal" from the businesses and never think about it. I refuse to categorize all musicians this way, but I find it amusing when I hear musicians talk about stealing when some of them are the worst when it comes to "5 finger freebies" especially from hotel rooms.

mmaddog
*******

I understand the point you're making, but for the record... yes, I do go back to the clerk to return money. In the rare instance that time has passed and THEN I notice the clerk's mistake, I've given the money to a charity of some sort. No, I don't fudge my taxes... like someone else mentioned, what's the point for few extra dollars? I've paid for everything I've rented -- even the bad movies. Honestly can say I've never stolen anything from a hotel.

I have doen my share of five finger freebies... but I can also say I was much younger and prone (as a teen) to stupid behavior. It's been a decade or more since I did that stuff.

The point you're making is stealing is stealing... and it's all the same, even if it's by omission or by giving incorrect information. I don't steal. Period.

[Eleazar]

And the whole world is smart?




Forgetting....c'mon not even you believe that statement.

mmaddog
*******

You said it...


You're acting like nobody ever forgets to take back that $1


Of course people forget to do things. Or they don't notice or something. That's not the same as seeing the guy hand you a $10 instead of a $5 and thinking "Oh, sweet, I just make some money"

[Taco John]

This thread brought to you by SoulSeek...

http://www.slsknet.org/

When you're not going to buy it either way, you're not hurting anyone... Am I right?

:p

[Taco John]

Actually, I download, and I buy. But unlike the past, I only buy after I'm educated on what I'm buying. This is considered stealing by some. Oh well.

[Sure-Oz]

What a bunch of ****ing bullshit.

[Valiant]

IMO..

People that pirate are not hurting sales, as the people that pirate NEVER WOULD HAVE bought the product anyway...

[picasso]

lots of companies build/sell products with the idea of charging for replacements when they fail.

this replacement for failed CD's is never gonna fly.


that said ... f**k the RIAA they are full of crap and i don't feel sorry for the money they lose in the least. They rip off the artists as much, if not more, than they say the consumers do them.

You are absolutely right Laz!
I as an artist want to share everything that I do, maybe get noticed or famous sure but more importantly because it's what I want to do. It is my gift that I have crafted for myself and talents that I have that I wish to share to all. And if you go on the web there are so many places that cater to that type of artistic expression and whether these artists get famous or not at least they are being heard and seen by someone other than at a few drunks at a dive bar where more often than not the artist is paying to play.
And when they finally get a shot at being recorded after many a failed demo they get ripped off by the RIAA. F*ck em!!

[Simplex3]

That's the amusing thing. They are powerless. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Until they make enough campaign contributions and *OUR* Congressmen pass that $15/blank CD industry tax the RIAA wants.

[Hammock Parties]

Until they make enough campaign contributions and *OUR* Congressmen pass that $15/blank CD industry tax the RIAA wants.

See that's just total bullshit. I don't even use my blank CDs for music.

[Mosbonian]

I understand the point you're making, but for the record... yes, I do go back to the clerk to return money. In the rare instance that time has passed and THEN I notice the clerk's mistake, I've given the money to a charity of some sort. No, I don't fudge my taxes... like someone else mentioned, what's the point for few extra dollars? I've paid for everything I've rented -- even the bad movies. Honestly can say I've never stolen anything from a hotel.

I have doen my share of five finger freebies... but I can also say I was much younger and prone (as a teen) to stupid behavior. It's been a decade or more since I did that stuff.

The point you're making is stealing is stealing... and it's all the same, even if it's by omission or by giving incorrect information. I don't steal. Period.

Exactly.....stealing is stealing....and for the record, my comments were in general not specifically meant just at you.

I have several friends who work in Orlando at hotels in or around WDW...one of the comments that I hear is that the people who seem to take the most stuff from the hotels are the people who can most afford to pay for it...celebrities. I guess that is why I have little compassion for most of the artists who bemoan stealing.

And FWIW..... and I think I said this to Dane McCloud when he championed this once before....if I truly believed that the RIAA was in this to help artists like yourself I would be all behind this. But we both know all it does is line the pockets of everyone but the people who deserve it most.

mmaddog
*******

[Simplex3]

Actually, I download, and I buy. But unlike the past, I only buy after I'm educated on what I'm buying. This is considered stealing by some. Oh well.
This is exactly where I'm at. So much of what they put out is putrid s**t anymore. I'm sick of being burned $15 for $0.50 worth of plastic that they won't let me return when I finally find out it IS s**t. So now I "liberate" a copy to see if I like it and if so I buy a copy. If I don't like it I delete it.

Frankly, here's how it should work if the artists were smart at all. They set up a web site and put the songs up on it one at a time, as they come up with them. No more of this 3 good songs and 8 turds just so you can fill the album crap. You create a good song, you put it up. Have them all available for d/l free using bittorrent tracker. Flat out f**king nuts, right? Except here are the economics of it.

Your fans are covering your bandwidth costs by hosting the files themselves. All your site hosts is a tracker (maybe). As an artitst you make precious little on CD sales anyway, the label steals, err, keeps most of that anyway. You money is made on tour, which the label pays nothing to support. How do you get people to your concert? They need to have heard your music. If you're giving the music away you can bet your a** people are hearing it if it's any good.

Last, drop a paypal button on your site for donations. I'd kick $2 or $3 per song to a band I liked if I knew the money was going straight to them and they didn't hold me hostage and force me to buy a bunch of turds to go with what I wanted.

[DomerNKC]

I understand the point you're making, but for the record... yes, I do go back to the clerk to return money. In the rare instance that time has passed and THEN I notice the clerk's mistake, I've given the money to a charity of some sort. No, I don't fudge my taxes... like someone else mentioned, what's the point for few extra dollars? I've paid for everything I've rented -- even the bad movies. Honestly can say I've never stolen anything from a hotel.

I have doen my share of five finger freebies... but I can also say I was much younger and prone (as a teen) to stupid behavior. It's been a decade or more since I did that stuff.

The point you're making is stealing is stealing... and it's all the same, even if it's by omission or by giving incorrect information. I don't steal. Period.i just downloaded some of your stuff, and then threw it away. the only one hurt was the trash can. i mean really people would you please stop STEALING from billionare studio execs and multimillionaire artists! if you dont stop soon how are they gonna feed their ridiculous coke habits and buy thier 6th house???

[Simplex3]

IMO..

People that pirate are not hurting sales, as the people that pirate NEVER WOULD HAVE bought the product anyway...
Just check the financials of the major labels, all this piracy is killing them. Hell, they're selling buildings, firing guys, liquidating their planes...

Or not.

[Smed1065]

Thats the whole truth, until they share with politicians-- they are screwed!
:)

[Valiant]

Until they make enough campaign contributions and *OUR* Congressmen pass that $15/blank CD industry tax the RIAA wants.


What is this??? I have not heard about this??? Please give me a cliff notes version...

[Simplex3]

What is this??? I have not heard about this??? Please give me a cliff notes version...
It was a while back, but the RIAA asked Congress to impose a $15 per blanks CD tax that would be partially paid to the RIIA. Their reasoning was that blank CDs were only ever used to make illegal CDs.

[cdcox]

I strongly respect copyright laws.

I don't think there is a single note of copyrighted music in my home I didn't pay for legally. We've recorded a few movies off HBO on VHS more than 10 years ago, but most of those we have now purchased in one format or another. However, if I bought a digital version of the song (e.g. CD) and the recording industry thinks I should pay for it again to have it on an MP3 player, they can FO with a baseball bat. That goes beyond the copyright and turns to pure greed, and I'll have no quarter with that.

[DJJasonp]

Dont feel too sorry for the artists....they're raping you through ticketmaster for their concerts and charging 50 bucks for a 6 dollar t-shirt.

This is one of those occasions that if people would keep their mouths shut (our you listening you whiny bitches Metallica?)....this wouldnt be as big of a deal and the RIAA wouldnt have seen such a backlash.

Here's another angle....look at my screen name....I've been dj'ing on the side for over 10 years now....the collection of music I have (if all were bought on vinyl) would have cost me easily six figures....no kidding. I've always had the attitude that I'm doing the artist a favor by playing their music to a multitude of people and therefore, helping them sell more albums, singles, shirts, whatever.

Of course, I understand the majority of illegal downloaders are not DJ's, but how many people may have downloaded songs illegally (because they wouldnt have initially ever spent money or taken a chance on a certain artist)....then they become a fan, end up purchasing an album, or better yet, spend their money on a concert (where the artists make most of their money). To me, it seems that mass exposure can only ultimately help put more money in the artist's pockets.

I truly wish that Metallica never makes another dime. On principal alone...even their most ardent fans should boycott purchasing their music...because rockers shouldnt be whiny bitches.

[SLAG]

WE SUPPORT FILE SHARING

http://www.deftonesworld.com/pics/vip/stef_fred_breal.jpg

[Taco John]

I dig this guy:

http://www.bradsucks.net/albums/i_dont_know/


One man band. I've bought his album, even though you can download the entire thing for free... Check out "I Think I Started a Trend."

Great song.

[Pitt Gorilla]

FMB....

While you don't pirate anything musically, I do have a question....

When you get an extra dollar back in change because the clerk screwed up, do you go back in and refund the money?

When you're doing your taxes and it comes to the part where you list your charitable contributions, do you "fudge" just a little to get a break on your taxes?

Have you ever rented a movie from Blockbuster and ran home and watched it...then took it back there and claimed that it was defective and you want another rental in it's place since there is not another copy in the store?

Have you ever gone to a nice hotel and taken home something from the room like a towel, bath robe, pillow, and not paid for it?

These are just several of the ways people "steal" from the businesses and never think about it. I refuse to categorize all musicians this way, but I find it amusing when I hear musicians talk about stealing when some of them are the worst when it comes to "5 finger freebies" especially from hotel rooms.

mmaddog
*******
Wow, I don't do any of those things, nor do I know anyone who does.

[Garcia Bronco]

Stop buying this stuff period..

[Mosbonian]

Wow, I don't do any of those things, nor do I know anyone who does.

Good for you....

But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

mmaddog
*******

[Demonpenz]

i would gladfully buy anyones music or songs if they were really good, but alas in the last 10 years no cd or video game has been worth a buy, the closest one being grand theft auto, but they never fixed the mapping issues.

[007]

None of the video games on the market are worth 50 bucks. Now the new console systems are expecting $60-$70 per title. the hell with them. I will just play the games at the used stores at still overpriced prices. I don't mind waiting 6-9 months for price drops anyway.

[stanleychief]

http://modernhumorist.com/mh/0004/propaganda/mp3.jpg

[Bugeater]

No more of this 3 good songs and 8 turds just so you can fill the album crap.

....and they didn't hold me hostage and force me to buy a bunch of turds to go with what I wanted.

:clap: You nailed it with those two statements. It's just like that DirecTv bullshit, I don't like being forced to buy something I don't want in order to get what I do want.

[007]

:clap: You nailed it with those two statements. It's just like that DirecTv bullshit, I don't like being forced to buy something I don't want in order to get what I do want.

Of course, then the cable studios would go out of business if we only bought the channels we wanted. At least that is what they will tell ya. :banghead:

[Swanman]

MP3Search.ru pwns the RIAA.

[htismaqe]

i would gladfully buy anyones music or songs if they were really good, but alas in the last 10 years no cd or video game has been worth a buy, the closest one being grand theft auto, but they never fixed the mapping issues.

You're either way too picky or you have no taste.

[Baby Lee]

Whoever said this, or authorized its release should be summarily fired. There is Supreme Court Precedent that allows the making of backup copies, that's the reason why we all had VCRs and can now have DVD recorders. Just a catastrophically stupid statement, I hope whoever released this was just talking from their ass and not their brain, because if so, well the two probably aren't far apart for them.
I wouldn't say 'catasrophically stupid.' More 'overstated on an issue in limbo.'
The betamax case does not 'authorize backups.' The betamax case carves out an exception to copyright violation for recording devices because timeshifting, the act of recording a program to watch at a more convenient time, is a non-infringing use that would be thwarted in the course of stopping the making of copies, which is an infringement.
Making backups is not timeshifting, but it is still up in the air whether or not backing up media to protect the properly purchased original is an important enough non-infringing use to have it protected by another copyright carve-out.

[Iowanian]

I'd like all the executives of the RIAA to go to any city in Iraq, and confiscate all of the illegal copies of their CDs and DVDs and then to China....

I'll pick the cartoons for their t shirts.

[Baby Lee]

:clap: You nailed it with those two statements. It's just like that DirecTv bullshit, I don't like being forced to buy something I don't want in order to get what I do want.
I KNOW!!

Like just the other day I went to Outback for a steak. A STEAK. And I ended up with some baked potato and salad tacked on.

WHAT UP WITH THAT?

[Iowanian]

Just a catastrophically stupid statement, I hope whoever released this was just talking from their ass and not their brain, because if so, well the two probably aren't far apart for them.

Finally, a topic that Hamas Matrix is truely an expert on, and has much experience in the field....the cranial-rectal inversion.

[Bugeater]

I KNOW!!

Like just the other day I went to Outback for a steak. A STEAK. And I ended up with some baked potato and salad tacked on.

WHAT UP WITH THAT?

Bad analogy. If I wanted a steak and nothing else, I have other options, such as going to the store and buying just a steak and cooking it myself. When it comes to the Sunday Ticket, there aren't any other options, I have to buy all the BS programming to get it.

[HC_Chief]

RIAA can choke on a corpse cock

[Lzen]

Is the RIAA looking to find a happy middle ground?

No.

Did the price of DVD's/CD's drop with cost?

No.

Have fun at dinner with Metallica and the rest of the "fighting a losing battle" club...


Exactly. I heard/read somewhere that the price to produce a cd is about $1. Yet they turn around and sell it for $15-$20. They are just money hungry and don't give a crap about the consumers.

[gblowfish]

Copyright laws and issues are quite complicated, and there are valid points on both sides of the issue. The battlefield on copyright and music covers two areas; public performance and CD manufacturing.

Songwriters and artists deserve to be compensated for their creations. In the realm of live music or DJs, businesses (like bars, restaurants, clubs) who use music to attract customers should pay their royalties to be copyright compliant. Unfortunately, it's only the major artists and famous songwriters that ever see substantial amounts of money in mechanical royalties. Small band guys who never make it big never see anything much in the way of royalties. ASCAP is a not-for-profit organization, who, along with BMI and SESAC, collect mechanical royalties for songwriters. Mechanical royalties are paid by club or restaurant owners, not by the bands or the club djs. I have no problem with those arrangements. ASCAP keeps about 16% of what they collect for operating budget, the rest goes back to songwriters.

Small clubs sometimes bristle at having to pay ASCAP or BMI fees, and may drop live music so they don't have to pay. Some would argue that actually hurts new music, because most of the small venues are played by unknown bands who'll never see a dime from ASCAP. Fewer venues mean fewer opportunities to be discovered. That's a good point, but every famous band starts out small. That's the holy grail of the music biz, making the leap from unknown to famous. If you make it, you've got it made. If you don't, you don't. The club still has to play by the rules, regardless. Songwriters deserve to be paid, same as the beer distributor or the guy that supplies the parsley for the garnishes. Music is part of the presentation that attracts clientele.

RIAA is a different animal. They represent the record companies first, artists come way down the pecking order. The problem now is that the digital genie is out of the bottle, and RIAA is unrealistically trying to force the genie back in. It will never happen. The CD industry was unprepared for the MP3 revolution and file sharing. This is not new. In the 1970's movie companies wanted to make VHS and BETAMAX movies illegal, because they thought it would kill the movie industry. Now movie rentals are one of their major profit centers, and the first run theater industry is stronger than ever. RIAA has always been unreasonable, narrow minded and heavy handed. They deserve the scorn that has been heaped upon them.

My personal feeling is if you buy music as a CD or as a download from ITunes or whatever, you should be free to use that music in the privacy of your hown home however you want. Purchasing a song does not give you the right to burn 10 copies of that CD and sell it to all your friends for a cut rate price, or make all those files available on your website for free downloading.

I also think that from a practical standpoint, people have always traded music, and that has benefitted many bands over the years, especailly those who can't crack into commercial airplay. Fans do bands a favor by spreading their music to help them get noticed. Once bands make the leap from unknown to known, then they start to get concerned about people "stealing" their songs.

I think .99 a song on ITunes is great, and fair to all parites involved; the music companies , artists and consumers. RIAA is rattling its saber because CD sales have been steadily dropping in the last five years because of MP3 file trading. Less CD sales mean less income for record companies. You may say they've been ripping people off for years, and that may be a valid argument. But remember, for every Aerosmith or Nora Jones or Eminem, there's 500 other bands that lost money for their label. So successful bands also help the label sign other acts, most of which will not make money. And as less CDs are sold, record companies are more cautious about which bands to back. That means less diversity and makes it harder for emerging new groups to get major airplay.

Many CD plants are currently in financial trouble because they've got excess capacity, and not enough work to justify the investment in equipment and manpower. Plants are being closed or will be closing this year, and workers are being laid off. I know, I'm in the CD business. That's why RIAA is going nuts, looking for new potential revenue streams. They've lost literally millions of dollars to illegal file sharing. The price of CD manufacturing will increase in coming years, because demand on the plants that are left standing will increase, making access to pressing plants harder to come by. Prices will go up, because there won't be nearly as many people making CDs five years from now. That's also why they want to charge more for file downloads, because they're trying to replace revenue lost from the drop in CD manufacturing.

Like I said, it's a very complicated issue, and no real black and white areas. Lots of gray areas, and good points on both sides. Interesting to discuss, though. I deal with it every day.

[kepp]

backups may not be legal but they sure sound like fun :) :thumb:
Fixed your post :thumb:

[KC Kings]

[QUOTE=PastorMikH]If they don't want me to make backups, the industry better be willing to supply me with a free replacement when the product fails. Especially at $20 a pop for Kids DVDs that they scratch up and $15 for CDs that get carried everywhere (regardless of how careful you are, they are going to get wear and tear.)

Personally, my opinion is if I own a copy of the song that I legally bought (regardless of format), I should be able to have a digital copy of that same music/video. I realize the recording industry does not have this same view. To them, I should have to pay full price every time I listen to the song or watch the movie, and I should also be willing to pay rent on their stuff on the days I am not using it.[/Q


Half of the stuff I download is stuff already have on CD's so scratched and warn they won't play at all.

Of course the other half is stuff I am blatantly stealing just because I can, but that is besides the point.

[Braincase]

The aluminum foil in CD's will oxidize and start getting little pinholes in them in about 15 years after mfg. Cassettes melt. Albums scratch. 8-tracks are done. Looks to me like the RIAA has a nice little scam going and they never CREATED a gd thing. They buy and sell. Did I need to get the word exploit in there too?