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tk13
03-27-2006, 02:20 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14193969.htm

Peterson’s eye on Harrington
Chiefs may offer draft pick for Lions’ disappointing QB

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

ORLANDO, Fla. — In between the routine, housekeeping items this week at the NFL meetings, Chiefs president/general manager Carl Peterson and his Detroit counterpart, Matt Millen, will have plenty of opportunity to talk about a trade for Lions quarterback Joey Harrington.

The Chiefs appear interested enough that they would give the Lions a choice in the first three rounds of next month’s draft if they can work out details of a new contract with Harrington and his agent.

“We’re doing our homework on him and trying to figure out what happened and why he could be so good in college and not have success in Detroit,” Peterson said. “There are always extenuating circumstances. The supporting cast is a big thing.

“I wouldn’t rule it out at this point.”

Harrington was Detroit’s first-round draft pick in 2002 but rarely played like one. The Lions during the offseason signed veteran quarterbacks Jon Kitna and Josh McCown and indicated they would try to trade Harrington.

The Chiefs are a natural trading partner. They adored Harrington when he was available in the draft and harbored hope he would fall to them with the eighth pick.

The Lions drafted him with the third choice instead, and the Chiefs wound up drafting defensive tackle Ryan Sims.

“I liked Joey Harrington very much coming out of college,” Peterson said. “We had a very, very, very good grade on him.”

The Chiefs also could use a veteran quarterback who could back up starter Trent Green for now and eventually be his replacement. Their longtime backup, Todd Collins, recently signed as a free-agent with Washington.

The Chiefs have Green, the seldom-used Damon Huard, CFL veteran Casey Printers and last year’s seventh-round draft pick, James Kilian, at quarterback.

“In my opinion, we’re not in desperate need of a quarterback,” Peterson said. “I’d like to think (Trent Green), even though he’s going to be (36), has at least a couple of good years left. He’s got four years left on his contract.

“We wanted to retain, if possible, a veteran backup, which we did with Damon Huard.”

Tribal Warfare
03-27-2006, 02:26 AM
I'd take a flyer on Harrington

greg63
03-27-2006, 02:34 AM
Chiefs may offer draft pick for Lions’ disappointing QB


Why does this not surprise me?

tk13
03-27-2006, 02:40 AM
The Jets gave up a 6th for Patrick Ramsey. Millen would be probably be pulling one over on us if we gave up a 1st day pick for Harrington.

Mecca
03-27-2006, 02:45 AM
The only way a trade makes sense is if you think another team is going to try to go for him and you want to avoid the bidding war.........

Personally I wouldn't have a problem trading for him, alot of people here would take Brodie Croyle in the 3rd I don't view this as much different.

beer bacon
03-27-2006, 02:48 AM
The only way a trade makes sense is if you think another team is going to try to go for him and you want to avoid the bidding war.........

Personally I wouldn't have a problem trading for him, alot of people here would take Brodie Croyle in the 3rd I don't view this as much different.

It would be more like drafting Croyle in the third when nobody else is even planning on drafting him at all. You know, a usual Carl day one draft pick.

keg in kc
03-27-2006, 06:24 AM
The Jets gave up a 6th for Patrick Ramsey. Millen would be probably be pulling one over on us if we gave up a 1st day pick for Harrington.Valid point, although there's a big difference between the 3rd pick and the 32nd pick. Regardless of how they performed, Detroit invested a great deal more than the Redskins and they'll try to recoup as much as possible. Harrington also has 31 more career starts than Ramsey, and 19 more than the former Redskins qb in the last two seasons. That's not to say I think we should spend more than a second day pick; I'm just pointing out what may be some of the logic.

Speaking of the number of starts, I'm of two minds on that one. On one hand, he's had more opportunity to succeed and simply hasn't. On the other, there's a lot more film of him, so we have ample opportunity to study the tape and decide if he warrants the risk and is salvagable.

the Talking Can
03-27-2006, 06:46 AM
a first day pick for Grbac's brother?

good lord

keg in kc
03-27-2006, 06:50 AM
a first day pick for Grbac's brother?Oh man, that's just mean.

Eleazar
03-27-2006, 06:55 AM
Only we will trade for someone who's going to be released anyway.

StcChief
03-27-2006, 07:56 AM
Wait for him to be released.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:21 AM
This guy had tons of potential, but went to a place that has never had an NFL caliber Offensive Line nor a dominating running game. Going to a place like KC where there is no pressure to win now, where he can sit on the bench and learn the offense from Trent would be great for him IMO. I really hope he becomes our backup QB next year, even if we do have to give up a 3rd rounder.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:23 AM
Only we will trade for someone who's going to be released anyway.


In case you missed it, as of right now Damon Huard is our backup QB. Why get in a bidding war with someone else for him? He would be a great backup for us, and KC would be a great fit for him. And who's to say he won't come cheaper via trade then having to offer him a brand new contract? :shrug:

Frosty
03-27-2006, 08:25 AM
I wouldn't mind signing Harrington, but no way do we give up a first day pick for him. If Carl doesn't want to risk another team bidding on him if he's released, then offer a 6th round pick, but no more.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:28 AM
The Chiefs appear interested enough that they would give the Lions a choice in the first three rounds of next month’s draft if they can work out details of a new contract with Harrington and his agent.
What. The. F*ck?

This team has more holes and needs than we can ever hope to fill in one year, and Peterson would give up a first day pick for a 4 year loser that will likely be cut in June anyway?

This could be the crowning idiotic moment in Carl Peterson's pathetic career of stomping on the hearts of Chiefs fans.

I barely want the guy for free, let alone for a draft pick.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:31 AM
Why get in a bidding war with someone else for him? Because we can afford to give up the money and cap space more than the draft pick.

We're the oldest team in the league, and we're talking about giving up a shot to get younger for a guy that likely won't play for a few more years by Carl's own admission.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:37 AM
Because we can afford to give up the money and cap space more than the draft pick.

We're the oldest team in the league, and we're talking about giving up a shot to get younger for a guy that likely won't play for a few more years by Carl's own admission.


So I take it you are confident with Damon Huard leading this team should (god forbid) something happen to Trent? :spock:

KCTitus
03-27-2006, 08:40 AM
jsp's right...Carl shouldnt give up those all important draft picks so he can draft more players like Kris Wilson, Junior Siavii, Julian Battle, Eddie Freeman, Snoop Minnis and Eric Downing.

Why piss away a draft pick for Harrington when you draft quality like that?

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:42 AM
So I take it you are confident with Damon Huard leading this team should (god forbid) something happen to Trent? :spock:If our starting QB goes down, we're going to suck anyway. Just like 99% of the teams in the NFL in a similar scenario.

Assuming that Harrington is any better than Huard, he's still not going to know the offense this year. It took Green over a year to get good in this offense while starting every game. You expect me to believe that Harrington, a guy who's been horrible all 4 years in this league, is going to pick up the offense faster in a back-up role?

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:43 AM
jsp's right...Carl shouldnt give up those all important draft picks so he can draft more players like Kris Wilson, Junior Siavii, Julian Battle, Eddie Freeman, Snoop Minnis and Eric Downing.

Why piss away a draft pick for Harrington when you draft quality like that?Joey Harrington is Kris Wilson, Junior Siavii, Julian Battle, Eddie Freeman, Snoop Minnis and Eric Downing.

How the hell is he any different?

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:44 AM
If our starting QB goes down, we're going to suck anyway. Just like 99% of the teams in the NFL in a similar scenario.

Assuming that Harrington is any better than Huard, he's still not going to know the offense this year. It took Green over a year to get good in this offense while starting every game. You expect me to believe that Harrington, a guy who's been horrible all 4 years in this league, is going to pick up the offense faster in a back-up role?


Valid points. I still think Harrington is a better long-term option than we could find in the draft at this point, and a more serviceable backup than all the other scrubs left on the scrap heap right now.

KCTitus
03-27-2006, 08:45 AM
Joey Harrington is Kris Wilson, Junior Siavii, Julian Battle, Eddie Freeman, Snoop Minnis and Eric Downing.

How the hell is he any different?

So I take it, you understand my point then? Why get bent over stating '6' instead of saying 'half dozen'?

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:45 AM
Joey Harrington is Kris Wilson, Junior Siavii, Julian Battle, Eddie Freeman, Snoop Minnis and Eric Downing.

How the hell is he any different?


Reality check, but Trent Green would not have put up any better numbers the last 4 years in Detroit than Harrington did.

Skip Towne
03-27-2006, 08:45 AM
I wish Johnnie Johnson was still around. We could trade him back to Millen.

KCTitus
03-27-2006, 08:46 AM
Reality check, but Trent Green would not have put up any better numbers the last 4 years in Detroit than Harrington did.

Whoa...hey, hold up there. We're not talking about reality.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:49 AM
Reality check, but Trent Green would not have put up any better numbers the last 4 years in Detroit than Harrington did.Bullshit.

Joey Harrington is an inaccurate passer that can't progress through reads. That team has flaws, but they aren't the sole excuse for Harrington's poor play. He's just not a very good NFL QB.

Brock
03-27-2006, 08:52 AM
Reality check, but Trent Green would not have put up any better numbers the last 4 years in Detroit than Harrington did.

How is a "would have" statement in any way related to reality?

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 08:53 AM
I would love to have him on board.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Bullshit.

Joey Harrington is an inaccurate passer that can't progress through reads. That team has flaws, but they aren't the sole excuse for Harrington's poor play. He's just not a very good NFL QB.


Harrington was setup to fail! Do you remember watching Trent in his 1st season in KC? The guys was rushed play after play, and he'd just throw the ball up and it would get picked off. As time went on, our line got better and Trent became more comfortable in the system. Now he's one of the more accurate passers in the league. Would that same development have came playing in Detroit, with a piss poor line and no talent around him? I would argue that it wouldn't have. I think if we give Joey the opportunity, he can develop into the Quarterback that he was projected at when he was drafted.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:55 AM
How is a "would have" statement in any way related to reality?


So you think if the Lions would have made a move for Trent Green when we did, they would be a perrenial contender at this point? :spock:

Brock
03-27-2006, 08:56 AM
So you think if the Lions would have made a move for Trent Green when he did, they would be a perrenial contender at this point? :spock:

I'm pretty sure that Trent at least would not have members of his own team calling him a pussy.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 08:57 AM
So you think if the Lions would have made a move for Trent Green when we did, they would be a perrenial contender at this point? :spock:The Chiefs aren't even a "perennial contender" with Green. Relevance?

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 08:58 AM
Relevance?
He is the QB of one of the best offenses in the NFL for a pretty good string of years.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 08:59 AM
I'm pretty sure that Trent at least would not have members of his own team calling him a pussy.


My only point is that I don't think its fair to evaluate Harrington thus far because every team he has played on has sucked. They are always in catchup mode cause their D generally sucks, and the pressure is always on him to win games for the team sans a strong ground attack or decent O-Line.

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:00 AM
Bottom line, Mike Martz came in and tried to salvage "Joey"'s career, and Harrington acted like he wasn't even interested in what he had to say. That's embarrassingly childish behavior by a spoiled, millionaire punk. I wouldn't take "Joey" on a dare.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:01 AM
Bottom line, Mike Martz came in and tried to salvage "Joey"'s career, and Harrington acted like he wasn't even interested in what he had to say. That's embarrassingly childish behavior by a spoiled, millionaire punk. I wouldn't take "Joey" on a dare.
The bottom line is we know the inner workings of teams now.

ROFL

nychief
03-27-2006, 09:01 AM
a first day pick is CRAZY.

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:02 AM
The bottom line is we know the inner workings of teams now.

ROFL

I can only refer to what the media said happened, just like any other outsider. If you have anything to the contrary, feel free to share it.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:04 AM
He is the QB of one of the best offenses in the NFL for a pretty good string of years.So what the hell does that have to do with what cmh is saying?

He's claiming that Green wouldn't have put up better numbers than Harrington at Detroit. Then he shifted his calim to Green wouldn't have been a "perenniaL contender" in Detroit, which makes little sense considering he's not a perennial contender even on a Chiefs team where he's able to flourish.


Look if you guys want this bum on our team, fine. I agree he'd probably be a better back-up than Huard. But to give up a first day pick for him? when he's due a $4 million bonus in June that will likely result in him getting cut, allowing us to pick him up for free? It's beyond stupid. Keep the damn draft pick, and aquire Harrington with money instead. We sure as hell aren't spending it anywhere else.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:06 AM
The bottom line is we know the inner workings of teams now.

ROFLWhich isn't any more ludicrous than claiming to know that Harrington will be a better QB in KC than in Detroit.

HC_Chief
03-27-2006, 09:07 AM
a first day pick is CRAZY.

Yep

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:07 AM
I can only refer to what the media said happened, just like any other outsider. If you have anything to the contrary, feel free to share it.
I am no insider...I just found your choice as the bottom line to be laughable.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:08 AM
Which isn't any more ludicrous than claiming to know that Harrington will be a better QB in KC than in Detroit.
This message board thing doesn't work well when you make up things that I say.

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:09 AM
I am no insider...I just found your choice as the bottom line to be laughable.

The fact that you're okay with spending a high draft choice on Harrington makes your viewpoint more than a little irrelevant to me.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:12 AM
The fact that you're okay with spending a high draft choice on Harrington makes your viewpoint more than a little irrelevant to me.
The bottom line is [insert rumor here]

I am really not interested in spending a first day pick on him but I would love to have him here. On that note I have to go though. Just did a litte music sorting and email before work. Me leaving shouldn't change anything though. JSP and Brock are talking on my behalf pretty well.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:13 AM
The bottom line is [insert rumor here]

I am really not interested in spending a first day pick on him but I would love to have him here. On that note I have to go though. Just did a litte music sorting and email before work. Me leaving shouldn't change anything though. JSP and Brock are talking on my behalf pretty well.
I just can't believe you are interested trading this year's first AND next year's first for Harrinton.

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:14 AM
The bottom line is [insert rumor here].

So published media reports aren't good enough for you?

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:15 AM
"I'd loooooove to have him here. But only if he plays for free".

chop
03-27-2006, 09:17 AM
I live just north of Detroit and I think Joey gets too much of the credit for the Lions being a lousy team.
The offensive line is terrible, the recievers, although talented in college, are young and inexperienced. Charles Rogers has been out more than he has played, Mike Williams was a reach (he was out of football for an entire year), and Roy Williams is going to be good but needs more time to develope. Joey did make bad decisions at times but he wasn't the blame for everything. I think he can still be a good QB for some team. I'm actually hoping that the Chiefs do grab him.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:17 AM
So published media reports aren't good enough for you?
When it comes to he said\he said matters. They generally are not. I think a lot gets clouded up in those locker rooms and a lot of stories are not all put out for the sake of truth.

I do enjoy listening to people like yourself who generally bash pretty much everything that comes from them and casts them off as idiots turning around and defending them.

Hey maybe it happened...I just don't put stock in that stuff. I think what happens behind closed doors pretty much happens behind closed doors.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:18 AM
"I'd loooooove to have him here. But only if he plays for free".
Hey if you are not smart enough to see a middle ground then congrats.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:19 AM
Miami gave up a 2nd rounder for AJ Feely, FWIW.

|Zach|
03-27-2006, 09:20 AM
Miami gave up a 2nd rounder for AJ Feely, FWIW.
And to think, you advocated giving up half ownership of the team for Feely.

-JSP

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:22 AM
This message board thing doesn't work well when you make up things that I say.I wasn't claiming you said anything.

I just think that the people that are so convinced that Harrington will thrive here are making as large of leaps as Brock's claim that media reports about Harrington are true.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:23 AM
Miami gave up a 2nd rounder for AJ Feely, FWIW.Oh, you mean the same AJ Feely that Miami traded to San Diego for a 6th round pick and an undrafted rookie FA a year later? Great example.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:24 AM
I wasn't claiming you said anything.

I just think that the people that are so convinced that Harrington will thrive here are making as large of leaps as Brock's claim that media reports about Harrington are true.


No one is saying he is a lock to succeed here. We just realize he is better than most other options on the free agent market, and much more serviceable than anybody we might be able to grab in the draft. I simply would like to have him as our backup and potential QBOTF if he shows he can get the job done.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:25 AM
Trivia question:

How many first round QBs in the last 20 years have failed with their initial team, but gone on to have success with a new team?

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:26 AM
I do enjoy listening to people like yourself who generally bash pretty much everything that comes from them and casts them off as idiots turning around and defending them.

I don't do that, so I don't know what you mean by "people like yourself". If it made it to a reporter, it's probably true.

Brock
03-27-2006, 09:27 AM
We just realize he is better than most other options on the free agent market, and much more serviceable than anybody we might be able to grab in the draft.

Based on WHAT?

jspchief
03-27-2006, 09:28 AM
No one is saying he is a lock to succeed here. We just realize he is better than most other options on the free agent market, and much more serviceable than anybody we might be able to grab in the draft. I simply would like to have him as our backup and potential QBOTF if he shows he can get the job done.Fine. And I'm saying we're better served letting the Lions cut him before pursuing him than to throw away a valuable draft pick on him.

Besides, with the age of our Offense, if we keep throwing draft picks at coaches and and back-ups, it won't be long before the situation in KC isn't much better than Detroit.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:33 AM
Based on WHAT?


my opinion. There isnt a rookie out there in the draft that would make a serviceable No. 2 for us, and unless we want Shane Matthews, Tommy Maddox, Tim Rattay, Kordell Stewart, or Anthony Wright, Harrington looks to probably be the best potential backup IMO.

http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/agent/agent.html

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:35 AM
Fine. And I'm saying we're better served letting the Lions cut him before pursuing him than to throw away a valuable draft pick on him.

Besides, with the age of our Offense, if we keep throwing draft picks at coaches and and back-ups, it won't be long before the situation in KC isn't much better than Detroit.


Look at the link I posted in the above post. I'm simply afraid that we will wait and he will be cut, and then we'll be left wading through the scrap heap of free agents for some scrub that makes Ryan Leaf look like a decent prospect. A 3rd rounder is probably too high, but I'd feel more comfortable getting it done ahead of time than watching some team slice our throat by offering him more money than we are willing to dish out.

bringbackmarty
03-27-2006, 09:37 AM
What offensive system did the lions run the last few years?

Do you know chop? I am just curious.

If it is similar to ours, I say **** it, give up the third. Do we have two third round picks this year? Is there some place on the net you see all the teams draft picks as of now?

I was looking at the games he played in that the lions won, and with the exception of one he sucked in all of them. I dont know....

keg in kc
03-27-2006, 09:37 AM
Bottom line, Mike Martz came in and tried to salvage "Joey"'s career, and Harrington acted like he wasn't even interested in what he had to say. That's embarrassingly childish behavior by a spoiled, millionaire punk. I wouldn't take "Joey" on a dare.I read a report a couple days after the original story that colored all that as false, saying that Harrington attended the workout, , talked with Martz, the whole nine yards, and then again decided after that that it was best to head out.

Hard to tell where the truth lies, in any case, with front offices and agents both leaking information to the press.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:39 AM
I read a report a couple days after the original story that colored all that as false, saying that Harrington attended the workout, , talked with Martz, the whole nine yards, and then again decided after that that it was best to head out.

Hard to tell where the truth lies, in any case, with front offices and agents both leaking information to the press.

I dont know why the Lions would want a story like that to leak. All it has done is decrease his value and lessenned his trade value for the Lions.

shaneo69
03-27-2006, 09:45 AM
The fact that Carl always conducts business like this (he would rather give up a draft pick for exclusive negotiating rights than try to outbid other teams for the player's services on the open market) just tells me that the organization: a) is cheap, and 2) doesn't really care about building through the draft.

Instead of waiting for Surtain to be cut last year, we gave up a 2nd for the right to give him a contract that was probably more than he would've got on the open market. Then, instead of being creative and signing Carlos Hall to a contract that the Titans wouldn't match (which would've meant we owed them a 7th round pick as comp), we just went ahead and gave them a 5th rounder so that Carl could give Hall the one year tender that the Titans were offering him.

Peterson/Hunt would rather give up draft picks than spend money. Hey, that's fine, but then don't have your ass-kissing columnists on the official site gush about how we're going to build through the draft.

ct
03-27-2006, 09:47 AM
Quote:
--------------
The Chiefs appear interested enough that they would give the Lions a choice in the first three rounds of next month’s draft if they can work out details of a new contract with Harrington and his agent.
--------------

What. The. F*ck?

This team has more holes and needs than we can ever hope to fill in one year, and Peterson would give up a first day pick for a 4 year loser that will likely be cut in June anyway?

This could be the crowning idiotic moment in Carl Peterson's pathetic career of stomping on the hearts of Chiefs fans.

I barely want the guy for free, let alone for a draft pick.

So KC is interested enough to give up a 1st day pick why? Because Adam Teicher says so? Puh-lease!

Well I say it'll be a 5th, or 6th+7th, or no deal. Do you buy that any more/less than Teicher?

Shox
03-27-2006, 10:02 AM
You are missing the primary factor in this whole deal.

CARL PETERSON'S HUGE EGO.

He "graded" Harrington very high coming out so it must he everyone around Harrington causing him to fail.

CP wants to bring him in hoping he will be the future so he can get all the praise and glory for seeing the real potential in Harrington. If he fails well it was worth a shot.

So CP does not really care if he overpays and gives up a 3rd round pick. It is all about CP.

Here are his quotes from the article. You think I'm wrong.....no way.

“We’re doing our homework on him and trying to figure out what happened and why he could be so good in college and not have success in Detroit,” Peterson said.

The Chiefs are a natural trading partner. They adored Harrington when he was available in the draft and harbored hope he would fall to them with the eighth pick.

“I liked Joey Harrington very much coming out of college,” Peterson said. “We had a very, very, very good grade on him.”

Eleazar
03-27-2006, 10:19 AM
In case you missed it, as of right now Damon Huard is our backup QB. Why get in a bidding war with someone else for him? He would be a great backup for us, and KC would be a great fit for him. And who's to say he won't come cheaper via trade then having to offer him a brand new contract? :shrug:

-Our backup QB has nothing to do with the fact that Harrington will probably be released and can be had for NO draft pick, let alone a first day draft pick.

-I find the suggestion that there will be a bidding war for Joey Harringon fairly amusing.

-His current contract is why he's getting cut. In any case we would be negotiating a new deal.

There is simply NO excuse for offering up a first day draft pick for him. He makes Akili Smith look competent, Ryan Leaf looked poised, and Kerry Collins look accurate.

True, he's had no offensive line and could succeed given time in Kansas City. But there's no reason to overpay for him. It's foolish to dump a higher draft pick on a project, 'flyer' player when there are so many holes that we need to fill.

keg in kc
03-27-2006, 10:34 AM
I dont know why the Lions would want a story like that to leak. All it has done is decrease his value and lessenned his trade value for the Lions.Never said they did.

Point is that when you're reading any NFL story you have to keep in mind that it's probably slanted one way or the other based on where the information came from or the agenda of the news agency reporting it. Same as with regular news. So sometimes it's difficult to tell what the 'truth' is.

DMAC
03-27-2006, 10:39 AM
He makes Akili Smith look competent, Ryan Leaf looked poised
I would not go that far.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 11:02 AM
-Our backup QB has nothing to do with the fact that Harrington will probably be released and can be had for NO draft pick, let alone a first day draft pick.

-I find the suggestion that there will be a bidding war for Joey Harringon fairly amusing.

-His current contract is why he's getting cut. In any case we would be negotiating a new deal.

There is simply NO excuse for offering up a first day draft pick for him. He makes Akili Smith look competent, Ryan Leaf looked poised, and Kerry Collins look accurate.

True, he's had no offensive line and could succeed given time in Kansas City. But there's no reason to overpay for him. It's foolish to dump a higher draft pick on a project, 'flyer' player when there are so many holes that we need to fill.


all very valid points. My only concern is what remains on the table once he finds a suitor.

Brock
03-27-2006, 11:06 AM
The Chiefs have gone about 8 years with Todd Collins as their backup. What a completely pointless thing to worry about.

CoMoChief
03-27-2006, 11:07 AM
How much homework does it take to find out why he wasnt successful in Detroit? Not only did he have an offensive line but he also made dumbass "Jake Plummer - Like" decisions on the field regardless of throwing to a good set of WRs. There, I just saved days worth of HW for Carl. Somebody on the Chiefs staff should hire me.


He wont find success in KC because of a couple things. One, we dont have any good WRs to throw to that are even comparable to the ones he had in Detroit. Two, by the time he takes over Trent Green's spot after Trent retires, our Oline will be gone anyways. Shields, Roaf, Welbourn, and Weigman are all over the age of 30. By the time Trent retires, they all might be the same ages that Roaf and Shields are right now. If I were Trent Green, I would retire the same time Roaf and Shields do so I could save my sorry ass from breaking my neck from a blitzing LB.

shaneo69
03-27-2006, 11:12 AM
The Chiefs have gone about 8 years with Todd Collins as their backup. What a completely pointless thing to worry about.

I don't know. I think it's a good idea to think about Trent's successor now, rather than waiting until you are forced to give up a 1st round pick out of desperation like we did last time. But I wouldn't give up anything higher than the 6th the Jets gave up for Ramsey.

ct
03-27-2006, 11:20 AM
... But I wouldn't give up anything higher than the 6th the Jets gave up for Ramsey.

I would only go slightly higher than the 6th for Ramsey. Joey does have several more games under his belt than Ramsey.

Keep in mind the Jets' 6th they gave up was a very high 6th, whereas our 2 6th's (KC's and Dallas') are mid range. I'd go 6th+7th, or even 5th if there truly are multiple teams getting interested, as is being reported. Beyond that, I pass.

Chief Faithful
03-27-2006, 12:03 PM
Harrington was setup to fail! Do you remember watching Trent in his 1st season in KC? The guys was rushed play after play, and he'd just throw the ball up and it would get picked off. As time went on, our line got better and Trent became more comfortable in the system. Now he's one of the more accurate passers in the league. Would that same development have came playing in Detroit, with a piss poor line and no talent around him? I would argue that it wouldn't have. I think if we give Joey the opportunity, he can develop into the Quarterback that he was projected at when he was drafted.

Green is a much better QB with a healthy Willie Roaf and I'm assuming the same would be for Harrington.

Mr. Laz
03-27-2006, 12:05 PM
they would give the Lions a choice in the first three rounds of next month’s draft

we better not give up a 1st day draft pick ... that's absurd.

Iowanian
03-27-2006, 03:50 PM
Trivia question:

How many first round QBs in the last 20 years have failed with their initial team, but gone on to have success with a new team?

I don't have any hard numbers...but off the top of my head...Trent Green, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhome.


I'm fine if Carl Brings in Harrington, but I'd prefer it not be a first day pick....and I'll be pissed if its not close to dark out when it happens. I'd prefer nothing, or a 2nd day pick...next year.

HC_Chief
03-27-2006, 03:55 PM
People, let's not get too wound up over this little article: it was, after all, written by Adam Teicher. He's batting about .001 right now

Mecca
03-27-2006, 04:31 PM
People, let's not get too wound up over this little article: it was, after all, written by Adam Teicher. He's batting about .001 right now

Well he did say that Tony Richardson wasn't coming back.....

HC_Chief
03-27-2006, 04:32 PM
Well he did say that Tony Richardson wasn't coming back.....

That's why he's batting .001 and not 0'fer

Mecca
03-27-2006, 05:03 PM
Chris Mortensen just gave some reasons why Harrington is likely to be traded.

There are 6 teams interested in Harrington..KC, Dallas, Miami, Seattle, Baltimore, the other one is slipping my mind but yea 6 teams. He also said the Lions don't have to release him till June 15th when he has roster bonus money due....you'd want to get a QB in earlier than that so he can learn the system.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 06:08 PM
I don't have any hard numbers...but off the top of my head...Trent Green, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhome.


BUZZZZZ.

Reading comprehension is not over-rated. Try reading the question again. Trent Dilfer is the only one that fits.

HolmeZz
03-27-2006, 07:03 PM
The Chiefs have gone about 8 years with Todd Collins as their backup. What a completely pointless thing to worry about.

Which is exactly why we shouldn't be considering giving up a 1st day pick for Harrington.

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Trivia question:

How many first round QBs in the last 20 years have failed with their initial team, but gone on to have success with a new team?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Iowanian
I don't have any hard numbers...but off the top of my head...Trent Green, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhome.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZZZZZ.

Reading comprehension is not over-rated. Try reading the question again. Trent Dilfer is the only one that fits.

Let me guess...this question is based on your version of "success"?

Just for grins and giggles, let see your definition of "success". Is it winning the Super Bowl? Or is it being successful by putting up numbers that make your team much more competitive?

After you better define success, then you can spend time making fun of people's answers...

mmaddog
*******

chop
03-27-2006, 07:51 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Iowanian
I don't have any hard numbers...but off the top of my head...Trent Green, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhome.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Let me guess...this question is based on your version of "success"?

Just for grins and giggles, let see your definition of "success". Is it winning the Super Bowl? Or is it being successful by putting up numbers that make your team much more competitive?

After you better define success, then you can spend time making fun of people's answers...

mmaddog
*******


I think he is referring to the "first round" part of the question.

jspchief
03-27-2006, 07:53 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Iowanian
I don't have any hard numbers...but off the top of my head...Trent Green, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhome.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Let me guess...this question is based on your version of "success"?

Just for grins and giggles, let see your definition of "success". Is it winning the Super Bowl? Or is it being successful by putting up numbers that make your team much more competitive?

After you better define success, then you can spend time making fun of people's answers...

mmaddog
*******Regardless of my definition of success, only one of those guys was a first round draft pick. Do I need to give you my definition of "first round draft pick" for you to comprehend the question?

Like I said, reading comprehension is not over-rated.

Rather than being a wiseass, maybe you could try reading a little more carefully 4321.

AZChief
03-27-2006, 08:02 PM
wow, we had "harrington rated very, very, very high" and took ryan sims at 8.

this should be enough to get rid of Carl and his cronies...

az

Iowanian
03-27-2006, 08:03 PM
So...in short, what you're argueing, interspursed within those "hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"'s, is that.....All of my list of QBs, except 1, were not first round selections, however, with their 2nd teams, were able to achieve success.

It would make sense to me, that if an 8th round pick like Trent Green, who bounced from Sandy Eggo, to Washington, to St Louis to KC, and has thrown for 4000 yards for 3 years in a row....and the others listed, who are either HoF material or Superbowl QBs.....yet, weren't first round material were able to rebound.

Why then, Mr Lombardi, is it such a comedy to think that its possible that a #3 pick could come around with a fresh start, and better Oline/Running game?

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 08:05 PM
Regardless of my definition of success, only one of those guys was a first round draft pick. Do I need to give you my definition of "first round draft pick" for you to comprehend the question?

Like I said, reading comprehension is not over-rated.

Rather than being a wiseass, maybe you could try reading a little more carefully 4321.

See....you're reading comprehension needs more work than mine....I asked for your definition of success....not to question whether I knew if the list were not all 1st rounders.

You didn't give me anything.... but a smart ass answer.

So, before you start acting superior, how about answering my question? What is your definition of success?

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 08:10 PM
Also...technically you are wrong....

Steve Young was a 1st rounder in the Supplemental Draft for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, which makes him a 1st Rounder....

mmaddog
*******

shaneo69
03-27-2006, 08:11 PM
So...in short, what you're argueing, interspursed within those "hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"'s, is that.....All of my list of QBs, except 1, were not first round selections, however, with their 2nd teams, were able to achieve success.

It would make sense to me, that if an 8th round pick like Trent Green, who bounced from Sandy Eggo, to Washington, to St Louis to KC, and has thrown for 4000 yards for 3 years in a row....and the others listed, who are either HoF material or Superbowl QBs.....yet, weren't first round material were able to rebound.

Why then, Mr Lombardi, is it such a comedy to think that its possible that a #3 pick could come around with a fresh start, and better Oline/Running game?

The problem is, Harrington has played 4 years already. Most of those guys you mentioned were traded before they got a chance to play. Harrington has played like Tony Banks. Best case scenario is he ends up being another Dilfer or Testeverde.

chop
03-27-2006, 08:15 PM
Depending on your meaning of success these may fit...Jim Plunkett, Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Vinnie Testeverde, Jim Hardbaugh, Kerry Collins, and Tommy Maddox.

Iowanian
03-27-2006, 08:15 PM
How would Dan Marino have looked the past 4 years behind Detroit's offensive line and with the running game?(given that Miami had iffy rbs during his time, but they DID have a good oline)

I'm not saying Harrington is Quarterback Jesus or Quarterback Princess......but I'm saying that its not unthinkable to consider that if some of the other QBs listed became very successful.....its plausible that a QB with Harrington's Physical skills, under Green for a couple of years, could come around.

Its not the same "duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur" factor as suggesting say....signing Gilbert Godfrey to play FB.

Extra Point
03-27-2006, 08:16 PM
Please put the patch back on the eye on Harrington. Thank you!

Mecca
03-27-2006, 08:18 PM
With the situation we are in with this team we have to get a QB this year. Acting like Trent Green has anymore than 3 years at most left is really reaching in my view.

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 08:20 PM
Depending on your meaning of success these may fit...Jim Plunkett, Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Vinnie Testeverde, Jim Hardbaugh, Kerry Collins, and Tommy Maddox.

You could add Doug Williams to that list...but I'm afraid that jspchief wouldn't consider him a success, especially since he only won 1 Super Bowl.

mmaddog
*******

chop
03-27-2006, 08:21 PM
The problem is, Harrington has played 4 years already. Most of those guys you mentioned were traded before they got a chance to play. Harrington has played like Tony Banks. Best case scenario is he ends up being another Dilfer or Testeverde.


Yes, but in that 4 years he has had no one to throw the ball to with the exception of rookie wr's. It takes most wr's three years before they blossom (excluding Moss). BTW, if you think he had an offensive line then you haven't watched any Lion football. Now I'm not saying he's a great QB but I'm not sold that he's really a bust.

Iowanian
03-27-2006, 08:22 PM
Are the Harrington Haters confident enough that he'll suck forever, that they'd want to see him in say....oakland or Denver?

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 08:24 PM
Although it is beyond the pre-defined 20 years, didn't Len Dawson sit on a bench somewhere before coming to KC?

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 08:27 PM
And just for the record, I am not against bringing in Harrington for the right price, which is not a first day draft pick.

To declare Harrington a bust thus far is premature...

mmaddog
*******

chop
03-27-2006, 08:28 PM
Although it is beyond the pre-defined 20 years, didn't Len Dawson sit on a bench somewhere before coming to KC?

mmaddog
*******


Pittsburgh, Cleveland and the Dallas Texans.

chop
03-27-2006, 08:29 PM
I guess I should have stopped at Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

Logical
03-27-2006, 08:40 PM
I wouldn't mind signing Harrington, but no way do we give up a first day pick for him. If Carl doesn't want to risk another team bidding on him if he's released, then offer a 6th round pick, but no more.I would be okay with a 4th this year or a 3rd next year but not a first day pick this year.

PastorMikH
03-27-2006, 08:44 PM
I am SURE this has already been mentioned, but I do not think Harrington is worth a first day pick.

4-5, preferably a 6th rounder would be more like it.



Oddly enough, had Harrington dropped, we might have picked him instead of Sims. Not much difference, neither has performed to the level expected.

BigChiefFan
03-27-2006, 08:52 PM
A 1st day pick for a BACK-UP, when our defense looks like a sieve? Carl has lost his marbles.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:16 PM
Chris Mortensen just gave some reasons why Harrington is likely to be traded.

There are 6 teams interested in Harrington..KC, Dallas, Miami, Seattle, Baltimore, the other one is slipping my mind but yea 6 teams. He also said the Lions don't have to release him till June 15th when he has roster bonus money due....you'd want to get a QB in earlier than that so he can learn the system.


Cincy is probably looking for a backup as well.

Logical
03-27-2006, 09:16 PM
So what the hell does that have to do with what cmh is saying?

He's claiming that Green wouldn't have put up better numbers than Harrington at Detroit. Then he shifted his calim to Green wouldn't have been a "perenniaL contender" in Detroit, which makes little sense considering he's not a perennial contender even on a Chiefs team where he's able to flourish.


Look if you guys want this bum on our team, fine. I agree he'd probably be a better back-up than Huard. But to give up a first day pick for him? when he's due a $4 million bonus in June that will likely result in him getting cut, allowing us to pick him up for free? It's beyond stupid. Keep the damn draft pick, and aquire Harrington with money instead. We sure as hell aren't spending it anywhere else.

I do have to agree with this point. Of course we don't know if Herm can be a better drafter with Carl in the room than Marty and DV were so IMO every draft pick is a crap shoot anyway.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:20 PM
I am SURE this has already been mentioned, but I do not think Harrington is worth a first day pick.

4-5, preferably a 6th rounder would be more like it.



Oddly enough, had Harrington dropped, we might have picked him instead of Sims. Not much difference, neither has performed to the level expected.


Yeah, but he probably wouldnt have even played by now maybe (or at least with us) and his value would proibably be worth a lot more than it currently is :)

milkman
03-27-2006, 09:21 PM
I'm a Harrington pimp.

I wanted him when he came out of school, and watched him at Oregon.

But not even I would give up a 1st day pick at this point for him.

A fifth, no higher.

And if it wasn't Carl sitting in the GM chair, I'd say wait until he's cut.

cmh6476
03-27-2006, 09:23 PM
also I am hearing arizona is showing interest.

He is going to draw interest guys, simply because all the rest of the QBs out there are crap.

Mecca
03-27-2006, 09:26 PM
Basically we can trade for him and pay him a reasonable contract. Or we can wait till he gets cut in June bid with 5 other teams atleast then either miss out or overpay then have no hope of him knowing our playbook due to know late he got in......

Or have another team trade for him leaving us out of the market.

JBucc
03-27-2006, 09:27 PM
Or have another team trade for him leaving us out of the market.I like that one

Mecca
03-27-2006, 09:28 PM
I like that one

So you're comfortable with Damon Huard as our backup and no QB of the future on our roster with Trent Green having 3 years at most left?

JBucc
03-27-2006, 09:31 PM
So you're comfortable with Damon Huard as our backup and no QB of the future on our roster with Trent Green having 3 years at most left?Not exactly, but I'd rather draft a QB in the later rounds.

Mecca
03-27-2006, 09:34 PM
Not exactly, but I'd rather draft a QB in the later rounds.

Eh, I think Harrington is still about as good of an option as we're gonna find considering how many needs we have. I know some people here like Croyle but you'd probably have to burn a 2nd rounder on him and he's made of glass.......

Logical
03-27-2006, 09:38 PM
Trivia question:

How many first round QBs in the last 20 years have failed with their initial team, but gone on to have success with a new team?

Quite a few:
Len Dawson
Steve DeBerg ?
Steve Young
Brett Favre ?
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Joe Kapp ?
Jim Plunkett
Vinny Testeverde

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 09:44 PM
Quite a few:
Len Dawson
Steve DeBerg ?
Steve Young
Brett Favre ?
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Joe Kapp ?
Jim Plunkett
Vinny Testeverde

Be careful...jsp will remind you that your reading comprehension skills aren't good...some of those aren't 1st rounders.

mmaddog
*******

cdcox
03-27-2006, 09:53 PM
Harrington will not hit the open market. Detroit will get someone to bite on a draft pick. Since we draft after every other team interested in him, we will probably have to trade a higher round pick. I'd give a 3rd for him, because he not only serves as a backup, but is a legitimate QBOTF, which we desperately need. Give Harrington a change of scenery, a decent offensive line, and a legitimate running attack and I bet he's a decent QB.

DenverChief
03-27-2006, 10:04 PM
Harrington will not hit the open market. Detroit will get someone to bite on a draft pick. Since we draft after every other team interested in him, we will probably have to trade a higher round pick. I'd give a 3rd for him, because he not only serves as a backup, but is a legitimate QBOTF, which we desperately need. Give Harrington a change of scenery, a decent offensive line, and a legitimate running attack and I bet he's a decent QB.


Ding Ding Ding I completely agree

Logical
03-27-2006, 10:09 PM
Be careful...jsp will remind you that your reading comprehension skills aren't good...some of those aren't 1st rounders.

mmaddog
*******I know there may not be that is what the Question marks are for ones I was doubtful about.

chop
03-27-2006, 10:20 PM
Len Dawson Great example 5 seasons of mediocrity.
Steve DeBerg ? nope, not even close 275th pick
Steve Young supplemental draft
Brett Favre ? 2nd round
Fran Tarkenton 3rd round
Jim Kelly never switched teams
Joe Kapp ? not a 1st rounder
Jim Plunkett correct
Vinny Testeverde correct

Mecca
03-27-2006, 10:22 PM
Jim Kelly was in the USFL so that may be what he was getting at.

Mosbonian
03-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Favre was the 33rd pick(early 2nd round) of the Atlanta Falcons in the 1991 draft.....

Ironically, Ron Wolf of the Green Bay Packers traded his 1st Round pick for the next season to Atlanta for Favre.

mmaddog
*******

Halfcan
03-27-2006, 11:01 PM
If we give a third round for Joey-I am going to be pissed. The guy has had great receivers, or at least descent, and has been terrible.

Just Vote NO for Joey on April 4th!

Mecca
03-27-2006, 11:03 PM
Those recievers aren't great.........Charles Rogers is an injury prone bust. Mike Williams did alot of nothing in his rookie year. The only one who's proven to be atleast remotely good is Roy Williams and he's injury prone and misses 4-5 games a year.

Brock
03-28-2006, 07:44 AM
Are the Harrington Haters confident enough that he'll suck forever, that they'd want to see him in say....oakland or Denver?

Yes. That wouldn't bother me at all, in fact I'd be quite happy about it.

jspchief
03-28-2006, 07:53 AM
Quite a few:
Len Dawson
Steve DeBerg ?
Steve Young
Brett Favre ?
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Joe Kapp ?
Jim Plunkett
Vinny Testeverde

Len Dawson was drafted in the last 20 years? For what? His retirement home league?
Steve Deberg, Not first round
Steve Young, Not first round
Brett Favre, Not first round (barely got a chance with first team)
Fran Tarkenton, see Len Dawson
Jim Kelly, What initial team did he fail with? Not 20 years anyway.
Joe Kapp, see Len Dawson, didn't fail with first team, etc
Jim Plunkett, he failed with his first team... by winning rookie of the year?
Vinny Testeverde, Yea, he fits, although he didn't play too bad at Tampa after his first year

Obviously, people are struggling with my question, since 95% of the answers given so far don't fit the criteria. But let me explain my point, so you follow what I was getting at. Very few QBs that come out of college with high expectations, who play poorly in their early years, ever turn out to be very good. A lot of them have the curse of starting on a shitty team like Harrington, but most of them never recover regardless of where they go next. You name guys like Green or Favre, but those guys didn't get a real chance to fail with their first team, they were buried on the bench.

There's only a small handful that have escaped their shitty start by moving to a new team. Vinny Testaverde, Jim Harbaugh (maybe), Kerry Collins (although he wasn't that bad at Carolina). Fact is, it doesn't happen very often.

Is it a scientific formula for why Harrington will never succeed? Of course not. But there's a definately a trend that people are expecting him to buck. Harrington was good in college. So was Ryan Leaf. Now maybe JH isn't Ryan Leaf bad, but the fact is he's been really bad, and has barely shown the rare flash of ability. This isn't like Jake Plummer that was buried on a shitty Arizona team, but had individual talent that stood out. He's a bad player on a bad team, and has shown very little ability to get the job done. Good QBs make their team better, they don't use their bad team as an excuse for why they suck.