Chiefs draft preview on ESPN sports center now!

[DTLB58]

Heads up

[Mecca]

And they give us Tye Hill......

[Marco Polo]

Can we give him back?

[Mecca]

In fairness that's not a bad pick. Tye Hill has incredible speed and makes plays. Not to mention alot of people felt he was the best defensive player on the field the week of Senior Bowl practices.

[Dave Lane]

Print them playoff tickets.

Dave

[Fish]

Mighty Mouse II?

[Mecca]

Mighty Mouse II?

Because guys like Ty Law, Pat Surtain and Champ Bailey dominate with their huge size.......oh wait they're all 5'11.

[Tribal Warfare]

In fairness that's not a bad pick. Tye Hill has incredible speed and makes plays. Not to mention alot of people felt he was the best defensive player on the field the week of Senior Bowl practices.


same could be said about Hali and Lawson.

[Mecca]

Manny Lawson doesn't fit our defense. Unless you want a 3rd down pass rusher as our first round pick.

Tambi Hali doesn't impress me to be honest. I don't see the physical tools required to be what a first round end should be. I expect him to be an average-good NFL starter nothing more than that. I don't think he'll ever be more than a 5-8 sack guy.

Our pick is to early to be taking Hali, Hali at this point is rated around where our 2nd round pick is.

[ChiefsCountry]

Hill would be not that bad.

[BigChiefFan]

We already have two starting corners on the roster and one of them is a perenial Pro Bowler. We need D-line help. I saw the roundtable of Kiper and crew and I was less than impressed with them picking a CB or WR with our first rounder.

[Mecca]

We already have two starting corners on the roster and one of them is a perenial Pro Bowler. We need D-line help. I saw the roundtable of Kiper and crew and I was less than impressed with them picking a CB or WR with our first rounder.

2 starting corners? where?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

2 starting corners? where?
Surtain and Walls.

[Mecca]

Surtain and Walls.

ROFL

I really hope you guys don't view Lenny Walls as a starting corner. I think he could be a pretty decent FS, but I'd rather him not be a starting corner atleast not for the entire season.

[Mr. Laz]

Surtain and Walls.
imo you need to control who Walls covers ... and it's easier to do that with him as a nickle instead of a starter.

[58-4ever]

I would like to see Battle or Sapp step up, but we are obviously going to get a corner somewhere. Whether it is off the scrap heap (Woodson, Law) or a first day draft pick. I would like to see a pass rusher with #20.

[Mecca]

I'd still rather pick Cromartie with that pick and work him into the starting lineup......

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

imo you need to control who Walls covers ... and it's easier to do that with him as a nickle instead of a starter.
I don't know anything about Walls, I admit. I was just trying to answer the question.

[Mecca]

I would like to see Battle or Sapp step up, but we are obviously going to get a corner somewhere. Whether it is off the scrap heap (Woodson, Law) or a first day draft pick. I would like to see a pass rusher with #20.

I don't think those ends are going to be the pass rusher that everyone thinks we need. There's a reason their sliding in draft stock. Benny Sapp can't even cover anyone as a nickel back let alone a starting player.

[58-4ever]

I'd still rather pick Cromartie with that pick and work him into the starting lineup......

then maybe Hali falls to us in the 2nd and Pat Watkins in the third. And with our 4th we take Herm Edwards, finally we find a steal at WR with our 5th rounder.

[Tribal Warfare]

Manny Lawson doesn't fit our defense. Unless you want a 3rd down pass rusher as our first round pick.

Tambi Hali doesn't impress me to be honest. I don't see the physical tools required to be what a first round end should be. I expect him to be an average-good NFL starter nothing more than that. I don't think he'll ever be more than a 5-8 sack guy.

Our pick is to early to be taking Hali, Hali at this point is rated around where our 2nd round pick is.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=137789

Manny Lawson


ali doesn't have the phyical tools kind of like Jared Allen? The kid can flat out play, and has a killer motor

[Mecca]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=137789

Manny Lawson


ali doesn't have the phyical tools kind of like Jared Allen? The kid can flat out play, and has a killer motor

Jared Allen was a 4th round pick too, Hali in the 2nd round fine, but you don't overreach on a player because you want to fill a spot. I consider taking Hali at 20 a reach, a pretty big reach at this point.

If we were a 3-4 team, fine pimp up Lawson all you want. But being a 4-3 team he has no spot on our roster unless you wanna put 20 lbs on him and nothing saying he'd be near the rusher then. Hell Mike Mayock on NFL Network doesn't even think Lawson moves well enough to be a OLB in a 3-4. He flat out called him a 3rd down situation DE and nothing more.

[Tribal Warfare]

Jared Allen was a 4th round pick too, Hali in the 2nd round fine, but you don't overreach on a player because you want to fill a spot. I consider taking Hali at 20 a reach, a pretty big reach at this point.

If we were a 3-4 team, fine pimp up Lawson all you want. But being a 4-3 team he has no spot on our roster unless you wanna put 20 lbs on him and nothing saying he'd be near the rusher then. Hell Mike Mayock on NFL Network doesn't even think Lawson moves well enough to be a OLB in a 3-4. He flat out called him a 3rd down situation DE and nothing more.

you're deflecting that Carl was looking at Lawson as a potential 1st, and Vermeil said if he knew that Allen was that good he would've taken him in the 1st.

[Mecca]

you're deflecting that Carl was looking at Lawson as a potential 1st, and Vermeil said if he knew that Allen was that good he would've taken him in the 1st.

That comment about Allen is dumb too, you don't take a player earlier than you have too, regardless of how good he is. That way you can get more than 1 good player out of your draft.

I seriously hope Lawson goes before our pick, and sense I think there's a pretty good chance of that I'm not to worried. The Chiefs picking Lawson first would really piss me off to no end.

[tyton75]

We don't have to get THE guy every year.. there won't be a Derrick Thomas in every draft.. what we DO need is a solid defensive player for 10 years

[FloridaMan88]

I'm still holding out hope they will take a WR in the first round.

Of course I've been hoping for this for about 5 years now and no such luck

[Mr. Laz]

I'm still holding out hope they will take a WR in the first round.

Of course I've been hoping for this for about 5 years now and no such luck
i don't know that there is a wide receiver worth the 1st round this year

Johnson sure has the potiential ... but i'm not sure you take a potiential pick in the 1st round.

[banyon]

Just saw this replayed on 38 the Spot.

That Tiki Barber footage is painful to re-watch.

[beer bacon]

I wouldn't mind at all if we drafted Lawson in the first. He weighs around 245 right now. He is 6'6, and he doesn't have a tiny frame. Beef him up to 255, and then see how he handles playing DE. If he is athletic, strong, and uses his leverage well he will be fine.

All this tweener stuff is getting kinda old. Merriman weighed in at 270 last season, and played at 270, and even he got labeled at tweener. He would make an excellent defensive end. Ware would make a fine defensive end too.

[Mecca]

I wouldn't mind at all if we drafted Lawson in the first. He weighs around 245 right now. He is 6'6, and he doesn't have a tiny frame. Beef him up to 255, and then see how he handles playing DE. If he is athletic, strong, and uses his leverage well he will be fine.

All this tweener stuff is getting kinda old. Merriman weighed in at 270 last season, and played at 270, and even he got labeled at tweener. He would make an excellent defensive end. Ware would make a fine defensive end too.

270 is fine for DE.......245 isn't. Kawika Mitchell weighs more than him. If you start putting weight on him it's very possible he loses his quickness, speed and acceleration. There's probably a reason he went all through college and never got above 245. I just don't think that would be a good pick in the 1st round.

[johnson&green]

I don't that the chiefs should worry about a CB in the 1st round because they just signed lenny walls i know he is not a pat surtain but he is a CB that the chiefs needed the chiefs should go after a WR in the first round they need one of those more than a CB kennison can't preform forever.

[melbar]

Because guys like Ty Law, Pat Surtain and Champ Bailey dominate with their huge size.......oh wait they're all 5'11.

Ya and Hill is 2 inches shorter than these borderline height CB's. Name one dominating 5'9 corner.

[melbar]

We already have two starting corners on the roster and one of them is a perenial Pro Bowler. We need D-line help. I saw the roundtable of Kiper and crew and I was less than impressed with them picking a CB or WR with our first rounder.

Pro-bowler? For the Chiefs? :hmmm:

[milkman]

That comment about Allen is dumb too, you don't take a player earlier than you have too, regardless of how good he is. That way you can get more than 1 good player out of your draft.

I seriously hope Lawson goes before our pick, and sense I think there's a pretty good chance of that I'm not to worried. The Chiefs picking Lawson first would really piss me off to no end.

I now really hope we pick Lawson.

Not really.

I'm still on the Tamba Hali bandwagon.

He, simply put, is a player.

He isn't the biggest, the fastest, or the quickest.
But he makes plays.
He gets to the QB.

I'm sick of all these guys that have all these combine numbers that bust.
Draft a player.

[jspchief]

Name one dominating 5'9 corner.Darrell Green

[milkman]

Jared Allen was a 4th round pick too, Hali in the 2nd round fine, but you don't overreach on a player because you want to fill a spot. I consider taking Hali at 20 a reach, a pretty big reach at this point.

If we were a 3-4 team, fine pimp up Lawson all you want. But being a 4-3 team he has no spot on our roster unless you wanna put 20 lbs on him and nothing saying he'd be near the rusher then. Hell Mike Mayock on NFL Network doesn't even think Lawson moves well enough to be a OLB in a 3-4. He flat out called him a 3rd down situation DE and nothing more.

I'll just bet that last year at this time, you didn't want DJ, because Mike Mayock wasn't all that impressed with him.

[milkman]

I don't that the chiefs should worry about a CB in the 1st round because they just signed lenny walls i know he is not a pat surtain but he is a CB that the chiefs needed the chiefs should go after a WR in the first round they need one of those more than a CB kennison can't preform forever.

I pretty sure i don't agree with you but i not sure because you apparently can't find commas periods and the shift key after first use.

[BigChiefFan]

Pro-bowler? For the Chiefs? :hmmm:
Surtain, yea, he's a multiple Pro Bowler.

[ChiefsCountry]

I now really hope we pick Lawson.

Not really.

I'm still on the Tamba Hali bandwagon.

He, simply put, is a player.

He isn't the biggest, the fastest, or the quickest.
But he makes plays.
He gets to the QB.

I'm sick of all these guys that have all these combine numbers that bust.
Draft a player.

I like Hali as well.

[nascher]

that could have been a replay from last year every mock last season had us take a CB and before WR in Round 1.

LOL

[Adept Havelock]

Darrell Green

True, but in all fairness he was also a freakish mutant of a human being. Hell of a player, and a great guy, though. Definintely knew how to pace himself. How many guys can be an elite corner for close to two decades?

[jspchief]

True, but in all fairness he was also a freakish mutant of a human being. Hell of a player, and a great guy, though. Definintely knew how to pace himself. How many guys can be an elite corner for close to two decades?There's no question that a stud corner that is only 5'-9" is a rare thing. But it happens, and I'm not going to dismiss Tye Hill summarily simply because he's short. I'd rather have a 5-9 CB than a 6-4 CB.

Besides, the reality is that we're unlikely to get a stud CB at #20 anyway. This draft doesn't have a DeAngelo Hall type of player, and if it did he would be long gone before we picked.

[Mecca]

I'll just bet that last year at this time, you didn't want DJ, because Mike Mayock wasn't all that impressed with him.

I was just bring that up as a point for some of his knocks. Derrick Johnson was a good pick for us at 15, I think alot of his knocks came because people were thinking he was a lock top 10 guy. He also fit into our defense, if we were a 3-4 team I'd love to have Lawson. I just don't really see a starting role for him on our team and I think a first round pick should be a starter pretty quickly.

[Mecca]

There's no question that a stud corner that is only 5'-9" is a rare thing. But it happens, and I'm not going to dismiss Tye Hill summarily simply because he's short. I'd rather have a 5-9 CB than a 6-4 CB.

Besides, the reality is that we're unlikely to get a stud CB at #20 anyway. This draft doesn't have a DeAngelo Hall type of player, and if it did he would be long gone before we picked.

In fairness DeAngelo Hall may be the most overhyped player in the league. He runs his mouth and acts like he's the shit on the field then gets talked about like that on ESPN. The funniest shit ever was when they were all like "he shut down Owens" as Owens has 8 catches for 110 yards. DeAngelo Hall the only corner in the league that gives up a 20 yard completion then jumps and and beats his chest like he made a great play.

[jspchief]

In fairness DeAngelo Hall may be the most overhyped player in the league. He runs his mouth and acts like he's the shit on the field then gets talked about like that on ESPN. The funniest shit ever was when they were all like "he shut down Owens" as Owens has 8 catches for 110 yards. DeAngelo Hall the only corner in the league that gives up a 20 yard completion then jumps and and beats his chest like he made a great play.Hall is the best CB to come out of the draft in the last 4-5 years. He may be over-hyped, but he's still a great CB and will be a stud for years to come.

[Miles]

Ya and Hill is 2 inches shorter than these borderline height CB's. Name one dominating 5'9 corner.

Antoine Winfield

[alanm]

In fairness that's not a bad pick. Tye Hill has incredible speed and makes plays. Not to mention alot of people felt he was the best defensive player on the field the week of Senior Bowl practices.Can he play football. I don't give a shit about workout warriors.
:shake:

[Mecca]

Hall is the best CB to come out of the draft in the last 4-5 years. He may be over-hyped, but he's still a great CB and will be a stud for years to come.

Alright I'll start with corners drafted in 2001.....and we can see where Hall ranks with those guys.

2001
21 Buffalo Nate Clements CB Ohio State
22 N.Y. Giants Will Allen CB Syracuse
24 Denver Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
26 Miami Jamar Fletcher CB Wisconsin
40 Seattle Ken Lucas CB Mississippi
45 Washington Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State
60 Tennessee Andre Dyson CB Utah
62 Baltimore Gary Baxter CB Baylor

2002
5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
17 Oakland Phillip Buchanon CB Miami
26 Philadelphia Lito Sheppard CB Florida
59 Philadelphia Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina
64 St. Louis Travis Fisher CB Central Florida

2003
5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State
11 Seattle Marcus Trufant CB Washington State
28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma
30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California
35 Chicago Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette
39 Jacksonville Rashean Mathis CB Bethune-Cookman
82 Carolina Ricky Manning CB UCLA
111 Buffalo Terrence McGee CB Northwestern State, La.
120 New England Asante Samuel CB Central Florida

2004
8 Atlanta DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech
10 Houston Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
25 Green Bay Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
28 Carolina Chris Gamble CB Ohio State
38 Pittsburgh Ricardo Colclough CB Tusculum, Tenn.
49 Cincinnati Keiwan Ratliff CB Florida
58 San Francisco Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh
110 Chicago Nathan Vasher CB Texas

2005
6 Tennessee Adam Jones CB West Virginia
8 Arizona Antrel Rolle CB Miami
9 Washington Carlos Rogers CB Auburn
23 Oakland Fabian Washington CB Nebraska
29 Indianapolis Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
38 Oakland Stanford Routt CB Houston
43 N.Y. Giants Corey Webster CB Louisiana State
50 St. Louis Ron Bartell CB Howard
56 Denver Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
57 N.Y. Jets Justin Miller CB Clemson
60 Indianapolis Kelvin Hayden CB Illinois
62 Pittsburgh Bryant McFadden CB Florida State

Ok now looking at all of those classes, I don't consider Hall the best one. He's in the top 5 but he certainly isn't better than Nate Clements. The arguement could be made that from his own class, Dunta Robinson is every bit as good as him.

[Mecca]

Antoine Winfield

Winfields a stud too, he's one of the best run support corners in the league despite his size.

[Miles]

In fairness DeAngelo Hall may be the most overhyped player in the league. He runs his mouth and acts like he's the shit on the field then gets talked about like that on ESPN. The funniest shit ever was when they were all like "he shut down Owens" as Owens has 8 catches for 110 yards. DeAngelo Hall the only corner in the league that gives up a 20 yard completion then jumps and and beats his chest like he made a great play.

Couldn't agree more. He is a good CB but nothing like the elite player that he and ESPN make him out to be.

[Mecca]

Couldn't agree more. He is a good CB but nothing like the elite player that he and ESPN make him out to be.

Then again I guess he's really smart. He's made everyone think he's an elite pro bowl caliber CB because of how he acts more than how he plays. He'll get a big time 2nd contract out of it too, he must be the king of self promotion.

Although nothing is funnier than watching the guy try to act like he's Deion Sanders when he's getting torched all over the field.

[Miles]

Then again I guess he's really smart. He's made everyone think he's an elite pro bowl caliber CB because of how he acts more than how he plays. He'll get a big time 2nd contract out of it too, he must be the king of self promotion.

Although nothing is funnier than watching the guy try to act like he's Deion Sanders when he's getting torched all over the field.

Yeah thats always great and he does it on pretty much every play that he is involved in. Gotta like a guy that is that pumped up after giving up a first down.

[Rausch]

I'd still rather pick Cromartie with that pick and work him into the starting lineup......

Ditto.

With his injury he fell off the fan-radar but he's got the size and the tools.

[Mecca]

Ditto.

With his injury he fell off the fan-radar but he's got the size and the tools.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only person on the board who's pulling for Cromartie to be our pick.

[Rausch]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only person on the board who's pulling for Cromartie to be our pick.

The way the other CB's are attracting attention we may be able to trade down and still land him. Most heads think he'll be the 4th or 5th CB taken.

Likely end of 1st to early 2nd territory... :)

[Deberg_1990]

If anyone knows what it takes to play Cornerback in this league its Herm Edwards. I trust whoever he decides to pick.

[Tribal Warfare]

That comment about Allen is dumb too, you don't take a player earlier than you have too, regardless of how good he is. That way you can get more than 1 good player out of your draft.



thank you most knowledgable most draftnk :rolleyes:

[Wilson8]

Chiefs | D. Manning in contact with team
Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:11:33 -0700

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports Abilene Christian CB Danieal Manning has met with, or will meet with, the Kansas City Chiefs.

Considered by some "experts" as a 3rd round pick.

[banyon]

Chiefs | D. Manning in contact with team
Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:11:33 -0700

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports Abilene Christian CB Danieal Manning has met with, or will meet with, the Kansas City Chiefs.

Considered by some "experts" as a 3rd round pick.

I heard him on ESPN radio on Saturday.

Seemed like a nice kid.

Kiper said afterwards that he's definitely a safety though, and Manning said in the interview that every team has basically told him that's where he'd play. :banghead:

[SBK]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only person on the board who's pulling for Cromartie to be our pick.

I'd be all for picking him, but it would be a risky move I think, tons of upside, but could come back and burn us.

He's a stud though, I hope he's who we pick.

[Gravedigger]

As long as it's a defensive pick and not a TE or RB I'll be happy.

[jspchief]

Ok now looking at all of those classes, I don't consider Hall the best one. He's in the top 5 but he certainly isn't better than Nate Clements. The arguement could be made that from his own class, Dunta Robinson is every bit as good as him.IMO, Clements is the only one that's in the same category as Hall. Dunta Robinson isn't every bit as good either.

Obviously you have your opinion. I'll just disagree and leave it at that.

[Cormac]

I don't want us to pick a CB in the 1st round for the following reasons:

1) They take too long to develop into quality starters. Most suck as rookies.
2) We are looking for a #2, and have the perfect nickel-back in Sapp.
3) We already have other options on the roster in Battle (supposed to be starting calibre last year), Walls (starter for Denver, handpicked by our new secondary coach), and youngsters like "Bling" Hodge.
4) With the rules against contact in the secondary, CBs are pretty much hogtied. There is no such thing as a shut-down corner, and very few consistently good ones.

If we throw a 1st rounder into the mix, we'll be cutting ties with one or more of the above. Why do that? A 1st round corner might pay off in the long run, but won't help us this year, IMO.

Then, look at our D-line. It's shameful. I hope we can get a good starting calibre 280lb end.

[Mecca]

Benny Sapp is only a perfect nickel if you like having your nickelback have no ability to cover whatsoever.

[TEX]

Benny Sapp is only a perfect nickel if you like having your nickelback have no ability to cover whatsoever.

Julian Battle - like?

[Chiefnj]

I don't want us to pick a CB in the 1st round for the following reasons:

1) They take too long to develop into quality starters. Most suck as rookies.
2) We are looking for a #2, and have the perfect nickel-back in Sapp.
3) We already have other options on the roster in Battle (supposed to be starting calibre last year), Walls (starter for Denver, handpicked by our new secondary coach), and youngsters like "Bling" Hodge.
4) With the rules against contact in the secondary, CBs are pretty much hogtied. There is no such thing as a shut-down corner, and very few consistently good ones.

If we throw a 1st rounder into the mix, we'll be cutting ties with one or more of the above. Why do that? A 1st round corner might pay off in the long run, but won't help us this year, IMO.

Then, look at our D-line. It's shameful. I hope we can get a good starting calibre 280lb end.

my .02
Tye Hill can be a #1 corner in the league. The Chiefs would be lucky if he fell to them. By playing left corner and right corner Gunther lets the offense dictate the matchups. You need to have two high quality corners in this system.

In my opinion the rules against contact puts the corner position at a higher premium. You need the most skilled players to break up passes and make minimal contact. The rule enforcement hasn't lessened the importance of the position.

Finally, I have personally come to accept the fact that I think this is a rebuilding year for KC. I don't think KC is a Tamba Hali or Gabe Watson or Bunkley or Kiwi away from a serious playoff push.

[ct]

I now really hope we pick Lawson.

Not really.

I'm still on the Tamba Hali bandwagon.

He, simply put, is a player.

He isn't the biggest, the fastest, or the quickest.
But he makes plays.
He gets to the QB.

I'm sick of all these guys that have all these combine numbers that bust.
Draft a player.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[RedThat]

2 starting corners? where?


ROFL exactly. Where are they? Last time I checked, I only saw 1.

[RedThat]

In fairness DeAngelo Hall may be the most overhyped player in the league. He runs his mouth and acts like he's the shit on the field then gets talked about like that on ESPN. The funniest shit ever was when they were all like "he shut down Owens" as Owens has 8 catches for 110 yards. DeAngelo Hall the only corner in the league that gives up a 20 yard completion then jumps and and beats his chest like he made a great play.

That's good. Too be honest, I REALLY like DeAngelo Hall. I could only wish we had a CB of that caliber on our team.

I like his attitude. I like CB's that can display that mental edge. CB's that are conceited, think they're the best, think they can cover anybody, and just have that attitude where they're confident, and show it on the football field. And play with nastiness, tenacity. That's the attitude you have to have to play CB. I think that's the reason we cut Warfield. Because he just simply doesn't fit that mold, and is not the type of CB the Chiefs are looking for.

*FTR, whoever said DeAngelo Hall "shutdown" Owens, complete misinterpretation. Those kinda WR's you don't shutdown. You contain them. And DeAngelo Hall contained Owens. I watched highlights of that matchup, he may
have given up some 20, 30 yard completions, but what I noticed DeAngelo Hall did was get physical with Owens all night long, and never gave up the big play. He was in his face all night. I never seen anybody do such a good job jamming Owens at the LOS disprupting the pattern and the timing of his routes. Fun to watch!

[RedThat]

At first I was pimping towards us drafting D-line, now, I kinda changed my mind a little bit, and wouldn't mind if we fixed the secondary because it is very very weak. We only have 1 cover guy. That's it.

What good is one guy that can cover? fine he shuts down 1/4 of the field, but you still have 3/4 of the field wide open, and still giving the QB with plenty of options where to throw the ball. We got to fill those voids through the draft. Im more than convinced than ever Sammy Knight, Greg Wesley, and Lenny Walls don't do it for me back there. Man, we need at least 3 guys that can cover back there. That pretty much explains for a bad secondary. I hope we get a safety, and a really good CB in the first 2 rounds.

[Coogs]

Manny Lawson doesn't fit our defense. Unless you want a 3rd down pass rusher as our first round pick.

Tambi Hali doesn't impress me to be honest. I don't see the physical tools required to be what a first round end should be. I expect him to be an average-good NFL starter nothing more than that. I don't think he'll ever be more than a 5-8 sack guy.

Our pick is to early to be taking Hali, Hali at this point is rated around where our 2nd round pick is.


If we are going to the cover 2, and there seems to be indications we are, then Lawson could be just what the doctor ordered for the defense. Look at the Bears defense. They have smaller defensive ends in terms of weight. Both of their DE's weigh 260. That seems plausable for a guy Lawsons size. Get him up to 255-260. He should keep most of his speed.

Plus, in the cover two, DE's sometimes drop off into coverage. He should be perfect at that.

I saw him play a couple of games this past season, and have the Senior Bowl TiVo'd. The guy is a serious playmaker at DE. He and Williams met at the QB quite often in the NC State games I saw.

In the Senior Bowl, the North (I think) ran several bootleg plays his direction. He played them very well. His speed and leaping ability cause most to be throw aways or incomplete passes. One was nearly picked off, and probably should have been.

The kid is a player, not just a workout warrior. We could do far worse than Lawson with our first pick.

[Chiefnj]

If we are going to the cover 2, and there seems to be indications we are, then Lawson could be just what the doctor ordered for the defense. Look at the Bears defense. They have smaller defensive ends in terms of weight. Both of their DE's weigh 260. That seems plausable for a guy Lawsons size. Get him up to 255-260. He should keep most of his speed.

Plus, in the cover two, DE's sometimes drop off into coverage. He should be perfect at that.

I saw him play a couple of games this past season, and have the Senior Bowl TiVo'd. The guy is a serious playmaker at DE. He and Williams met at the QB quite often in the NC State games I saw.

In the Senior Bowl, the North (I think) ran several bootleg plays his direction. He played them very well. His speed and leaping ability cause most to be throw aways or incomplete passes. One was nearly picked off, and probably should have been.

The kid is a player, not just a workout warrior. We could do far worse than Lawson with our first pick.

For Lawson to be effective as a 4-3 down lineman the Chiefs are going to need the DT's to step it up big time and probably use the 2nd and 3rd pick on DT. The Bears front 4 generates pressure not only because they have DE's that can get to the QB, but because both tackles did a hell of a job collapsing the pocket.

[ct]

anybody have some video, or link to, of this guy?

[Dave Lane]

my .02
Tye Hill can be a #1 corner in the league. The Chiefs would be lucky if he fell to them. By playing left corner and right corner Gunther lets the offense dictate the matchups. You need to have two high quality corners in this system.

In my opinion the rules against contact puts the corner position at a higher premium. You need the most skilled players to break up passes and make minimal contact. The rule enforcement hasn't lessened the importance of the position.

Finally, I have personally come to accept the fact that I think this is a rebuilding year for KC. I don't think KC is a Tamba Hali or Gabe Watson or Bunkley or Kiwi away from a serious playoff push.


I agree completely. With Herm and our FA moves (or lack of) we will be lucky to go 8-8 this year and then hopefully uptick next year.

Dave

[Chiefnj]

anybody have some video, or link to, of this guy?
There's a link in the draft forum under a thread I started the other day. It brings you to the Jaguars board where they have footage of some top prospects.

[RIChief]

Defensive Line help PLEASE!!!!!!!!
You can have as many all-pros at CB and S that you want and it won't make a bit of difference when the QB has all day to throw. A quality front line/rush will make the secondary look great. Put no pressure on and the QB looks like a hall of famer. We make quite a few look that way last year.

[Mr. Laz]

Manny Lawson DE 6’5 240 North Carolina St.
By: Robert Davis

NFL Combine Stats: 40-yard dash - 4.43, vertical jump - 39.5"

Manny Lawson is one of the truly elite athletes in college football. Not only has he found time to play both end and linebacker, he’s also a track standout having competed in the long jump and hurdles during his time at NC St. As a linebacker in 2002, Lawson had 35 tackles, with one of them coming for loss. As a part time starter in 2003, he improved on all his numbers. He totaled 53 tackles, seven for loss, with three sacks. Lawson made the switch to DE in 2004, and became a full time starter for the first time in his career. On the year, he finished with 50 tackles, 12 for loss, and seven sacks. As a senior, Manny put it all together. He finished the season with career highs across the board: 58 tackles, 19.5 for loss, and 10.5 sacks.

Lawson is an absolute freak of an athlete. He has excellent agility, closing speed, and jumping ability. Pound for pound, he may also be the strongest player in the draft. There is not a single physical trait he lacks. On the football field, he is an emerging talent. He did not make too many plays early on, but once he moved to defensive end, he started to show his pass rushing ability. His upside is tremendous, and he could be a standout pass rusher at the next level. Lawson is also a standout special teamer.

With all his athletic gifts, he is prone to relying on them too often. A major part of that is due to his inexperience on the defensive line. As an end, he lacks the bulk to be a player against the run. Lawson carries the tweener tag, but that has not been a negative lately. Still, he may only fit for certain teams.

Manny Lawson has tremendous upside. As a pass rusher, he has as much pure talent as anyone in the draft. He is listed here as a defensive end, but he has the ability to play OLB in a 3-4 defense. Lawson is the type of player that makes team drool about his potential because of his physical talent. Pass rushers are put at a premium, so do not be surprised to see him crack the first round.

[Chiefshrink]

No way we draft a CB in the first round. We are sooo weak up the middle it is pathetic. Sims is a bust and the rest are backups at best. We literally have no push up the middle thus whether you have a probowler out there or a mediocre CB both will look bad most of the time with no pass rush. Case in point? Look at Surtain last year. Was he alllllll that? IMO, no. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy's play and think he is top notch but now with the rules favoring recievers even more I say put more of your eggs in the D-line basket to compensate for the new "absolutely no contact rule" of WRs.
Hoping Bunkely falls to 20 but doubt it.

[Coogs]

For Lawson to be effective as a 4-3 down lineman the Chiefs are going to need the DT's to step it up big time and probably use the 2nd and 3rd pick on DT. The Bears front 4 generates pressure not only because they have DE's that can get to the QB, but because both tackles did a hell of a job collapsing the pocket.

Absolutely!

But if we are going to go to cover 2, start up front. Trent Green already said the CB from Denver will be good in cover 2.

[Coogs]

There's a link in the draft forum under a thread I started the other day. It brings you to the Jaguars board where they have footage of some top prospects.

You can also see Lawson in the Mario Williams vidio clip there.

In fact, during the college football season I tuned in NC State to check out Williams. I did not know what his number was, so I checked on an internet site. It said Williams was 9. I started watching the game, and after the first souple of series, I had to re-check the number, because #91 was the one dominating the game (Lawson).

[Cormac]

my .02
Tye Hill can be a #1 corner in the league. The Chiefs would be lucky if he fell to them. By playing left corner and right corner Gunther lets the offense dictate the matchups. You need to have two high quality corners in this system.

In my opinion the rules against contact puts the corner position at a higher premium. You need the most skilled players to break up passes and make minimal contact. The rule enforcement hasn't lessened the importance of the position.

I see what you're saying. But I'm convinced that if we don't get pressure on the QB with a front 4 pass rush, we're screwed again....regardless of who plays in our secondary. I wouldn't be surprised if Lenny Walls is a better CB than any DT we have is at his position. Our D-line is an absolute joke. Around the league, the best defenses have great D-lines (NE, Jax, Carolina, Chicago) etc. Look at who their CBs are: Guys like Ricky Manning, Nathan Vasher, Asante Samuel etc etc). I don't believe those guys would do crap for our team if we signed them. Simply because our D-linemen wouldn't win a damn pillow fight. Our secondary may not be great, but I think our secondary would do very well on any of those teams mentioned above, and their secondaries would suck if they played behind our front line. I'm absolutely convinced that Tye Hill (or whoever) won't make a difference to our win-loss record in 2006 if we draft him. Somebody like Mario Williams (as an example) would. JMO.

Finally, I have personally come to accept the fact that I think this is a rebuilding year for KC. I don't think KC is a Tamba Hali or Gabe Watson or Bunkley or Kiwi away from a serious playoff push.

I hate to agree with this, but I'm afraid you're right. My fear is that we won't be good for a few years, if we're not good next year. Our O will essentially fall apart......

[Chiefnj]

I hate to agree with this, but I'm afraid you're right. My fear is that we won't be good for a few years, if we're not good next year. Our O will essentially fall apart......

I agree that the Chiefs desperately need to improve the front 4 and that Tye Hill isn't going to get KC into the post season. I do think that if he falls to 20 there is a very good chance that he will be the best available player and I think KC needs to start adding the best talent possible to the roster even though it might not be at the positions of greatest need and immediate impact.

[Coogs]

I see what you're saying. But I'm convinced that if we don't get pressure on the QB with a front 4 pass rush, we're screwed again....regardless of who plays in our secondary. I wouldn't be surprised if Lenny Walls is a better CB than any DT we have is at his position. Our D-line is an absolute joke. Around the league, the best defenses have great D-lines (NE, Jax, Carolina, Chicago) etc. Look at who their CBs are: Guys like Ricky Manning, Nathan Vasher, Asante Samuel etc etc). I don't believe those guys would do crap for our team if we signed them. Simply because our D-linemen wouldn't win a damn pillow fight. Our secondary may not be great, but I think our secondary would do very well on any of those teams mentioned above, and their secondaries would suck if they played behind our front line. I'm absolutely convinced that Tye Hill (or whoever) won't make a difference to our win-loss record in 2006 if we draft him. Somebody like Mario Williams (as an example) would. JMO.


:bravo:


Somebody like Mario Williams would be excellent. Manny Lawson comes to mind.

[ct]

There's a link in the draft forum under a thread I started the other day. It brings you to the Jaguars board where they have footage of some top prospects.

I saw that, which was cool. Except Lawson wasn't one of them they had video for.

[Coogs]

I saw that, which was cool. Except Lawson wasn't one of them they had video for.

Click on the Mario Williams link. #91 is Lawson. He is in on several plays in the video.

Add his teammate at DT in the 2nd. Might be a good combo. In the USA Today draft link, Williams and Lawson give MCCargo credit for taking up double and triple teams to free them up.


John McCargo
Height: 6-1 1/2 | Weight: 302 | 40-Time: 5.11

Official Bio

Strengths:
Very disruptive in the middle...An excellent penetrator...Has outstanding strength...Consistent performer who had at least one tackle for a loss in every game he played as a junior...Uses his hands and arms well...Active and does a good job of shedding blockers...Does a great job of splitting the double team...Very productive with a knack for making plays in the opponents backfield.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I really hope that the reason that we signed Walls was for covering Gates and not as our 2nd CB.

[ct]

You can also see Lawson in the Mario Williams vidio clip there.

In fact, during the college football season I tuned in NC State to check out Williams. I did not know what his number was, so I checked on an internet site. It said Williams was 9. I started watching the game, and after the first souple of series, I had to re-check the number, because #91 was the one dominating the game (Lawson).

I did see him several times in the SuperMario segments. But since the segment was focused on Mario, anytime I saw #91, he was more just piling on. Oh and by the way, Mario is a freak!!

[Coogs]

I did see him several times in the SuperMario segments. But since the segment was focused on Mario, anytime I saw #91, he was more just piling on. Oh and by the way, Mario is a freak!!

But he was right there in several of the plays that were focused on Mario. A highlight film of Lawson might have Mario piling on as well. As I stated earlier, the first time I tuned into a NC State game to watch Williams, I thought they must have had his number wrong. #91 was the DE that was all over the place. Turns out #9 was actully Williams, and it was Lawson who was kicking fanny and taking names.

[TEX]

I really hope that the reason that we signed Walls was for covering Gates and not as our 2nd CB.

Who knows? But I'm with ya. However I do have this sinking feeling that they did sign him to be our 2nd CB or maybe he's a "stop gap" cause they're going to draft one. Maybe we'll make him into a Safety or something?

[Coogs]

Who knows? But I'm with ya. However I do have this sinking feeling that they did sign him to be our 2nd CB or maybe he's a "stop gap" cause they're going to draft one. Maybe we'll make him into a Safety or something?


Here is a bit from the Trent Green interview on kcchiefs.com...


Q: You signed Lenny Walls this week and you’ve played against him before. Any kind of scouting report on him?

GREEN: “I think Lenny will be a good addition in terms of what we’re going to do defensively. I think there’s been quite a bit of attention focused on the defensive side of the ball and obviously Gunther’s coming back. But Coach Edwards is a defensive coach and brought a lot of new defensive faces in. They’ve talked a lot about Cover 2 and we’ve played Cover 2 in the past. Lenny played a lot of Cover 2 in Denver. If you have a corner who’s 6'4" playing Cover 2 it makes it hard for the quarterback to hit it in the hole. That part of it he’s going to be good at.

“If that’s the direction we’re going in – in terms of more of the Cover 2 defense – then it fits perfectly.”

[Mecca]

Defensive Line help PLEASE!!!!!!!!
You can have as many all-pros at CB and S that you want and it won't make a bit of difference when the QB has all day to throw. A quality front line/rush will make the secondary look great. Put no pressure on and the QB looks like a hall of famer. We make quite a few look that way last year.

Let's take a 2nd round rated DE over the first round rated CB. Once again drafting a player based on your need over the talent level of who's left is how you have bad drafts. The Chiefs are masters of this, alot of you guys want Dline so bad it's clouding your judgement of who's likely to be the best player available when we pick.

Our team is old, our drafts should be about getting the best possible talent we can regardless of position. We are not 1 player away from winning a Superbowl.

By the way for the comment on what Trent Green said about Lenny Walls. The guys his teammate now, what do you expect him to say? That Walls sucks and won't do well? Lenny Walls is not the answer at CB by any stretch of the imagination.

Simple as this, I'd much rather have the best player available in every round regardless of position than reach for a position because we must have it.

[Coogs]

Let's take a 2nd round rated DE over the first round rated CB. Once again drafting a player based on your need over the talent level of who's left is how you have bad drafts. The Chiefs are masters of this, alot of you guys want Dline so bad it's clouding your judgement of who's likely to be the best player available when we pick.

Our team is old, our drafts should be about getting the best possible talent we can regardless of position. We are not 1 player away from winning a Superbowl.

By the way for the comment on what Trent Green said about Lenny Walls. The guys his teammate now, what do you expect him to say? That Walls sucks and won't do well? Lenny Walls is not the answer at CB by any stretch of the imagination.

Simple as this, I'd much rather have the best player available in every round regardless of position than reach for a position because we must have it.

Sorry Mecca. I'm going to go with what Trent Green says over what you say. And he did say that Wall would be perfect in cover two. Nothing more, nothing less.

And Lawson is one heck of a football player too!

[Mecca]

Sorry Mecca. I'm going to go with what Trent Green says over what you say.

And Lawson is one heck of a football player too!

Because I'm sure Trent Green would publicly say that Walls is crap even if he thought he was in reality. :rolleyes:

[Coogs]

Because I'm sure Trent Green would publicly say that Walls is crap even if he thought he was in reality. :rolleyes:

He didn't exactly give Walls a ringing endorsement in anything but the cover two did he? But he did say he was perfect for cover two.

[Mecca]

If you wanna convince yourself that Lenny Walls is a capable starter be my guest.

Considering there are 5-6 starters on that defense that need to be replaced. trumpeting that we must have a DE is a bit much to me.

All I know is if Tamba Hali is our pick and he sucks, some of you guys are gonna catch some hell. There are numerous posters on here that act like they're married to the guy.

[Coogs]

If you wanna convince yourself that Lenny Walls is a capable starter be my guest.

Considering there are 5-6 starters on that defense that need to be replaced. trumpeting that we must have a DE is a bit much to me.

All I know is if Tamba Hali is our pick and he sucks, some of you guys are gonna catch some hell. There are numerous posters on here that act like they're married to the guy.


I know nothing about the guy. Can't stand to watch Denver games. Just know Green said he would be perfect for the cover two scheme. I trust Green's judgement.

And I am for Lawson, who IIRC, you don't care for either. I am for 2 or 3 D-linemen being selected in this draft actually. I think we are way weak up front.

[Mecca]

Trent Green also publicly stated that Jordan Black was a capable starter.........He's not going to say anything bad about anyone on the team. That's Trent Green, he's a team guy. It also means in player evaluation I don't trust what he says in public one bit.

[Coogs]

Trent Green also publicly stated that Jordan Black was a capable starter.........He's not going to say anything bad about anyone on the team. That's Trent Green, he's a team guy. It also means in player evaluation I don't trust what he says in public one bit.


I also think Black is a capable starter.... in the right scheme. When we went to the play action passing game, Black did fine. In our usual offense last season, no.... he was not so fine.

[Mecca]

I also think Black is a capable starter.... in the right scheme. When we went to the play action passing game, Black did fine. In our usual offense last season, no.... he was not so fine.

I no longer trust your player evaluation skills either..... :p

[TEX]

Here is a bit from the Trent Green interview on kcchiefs.com...

Yeah, but when has Trent ever been anything but supportive to the media about any player?
I remember him saying good things about Bret Williams in a preseason game too when it was obvious that Williams would never be anything more then a turnstile at Tackle in the NFL. In other words, I do not believe that Trent, as leader of the team, can give an honest objective assesment of a player's talents to the media.

IMO, the only CB currently on the roster that's reliable is Surtain.

They talk about the "cover 2" like it's some big deal but offenses have beem scheming against it for years and most every time the Chiefs play it, they forget about the "cover" part. The reason is that it seems like we only have one legit CB all the time, and this year is no different.

We'll just have to see how set we are after all is said and done. If no improvements are made, I'm afraid this will be just another go-round of "this year's plan will be next year's priority" as deficiencies in years past have been just as glaring at this same juncture, just as they are at this point of this offseason. History has a way of repeating itself if ONE lets it despite coaching changes..

[sedated]

I f*cking hate it when people bust out the "not one player away from a super bowl" bullsh!t

[BigChiefFan]

If you wanna convince yourself that Lenny Walls is a capable starter be my guest.

Considering there are 5-6 starters on that defense that need to be replaced. trumpeting that we must have a DE is a bit much to me.

All I know is if Tamba Hali is our pick and he sucks, some of you guys are gonna catch some hell. There are numerous posters on here that act like they're married to the guy.
I believe that Lenny Walls was defintely signed to compete for a starting job and I wouldn't be surprised to him as the starter opposite Surtain. Lenny walls was interviewed a while back and he said he had every intention to start. I know that doesn't guarantee him a starting job, but I can say that I liked his enthusiasm and I believe he has the skills to cement the position.

On to Hali-some are pimping him as the end all and be all, but not not many. I believe the majority of the Hali supporters have seen him play and know that he has performed well at the collegiate level. Again, does that guarantee he will be a dominating Pro Bowler? No, but his play should speak for his potential at the next level. I would also say that his size and speed should also work in his favor for translating well into becoming a quality player at the NFL level. He looks to be an EVERY DOWN DE and that's an important thing for a high draft pick, don't you think?

[Mecca]

I believe that Lenny Walls was defintely signed to compete for a starting job and I wouldn't be surprised to him as the starter opposite Surtain. Lenny walls was interviewed a while back and he said he had every intention to start. I know that doesn't guarantee him a starting job, but I can say that I liked his enthusiasm and I believe he has the skills to cement the position.

On to Hali-some are pimping him as the end all and be all, but not not many. I believe the majority of the Hali supporters have seen him play and know that he has performed well at the collegiate level. Again, does that guarantee he will be a dominating Pro Bowler? No, but his play should speak for his potential at the next level. I would also say that his size and speed should also work in his favor for translating well into becoming a quality player at the NFL level. He looks to be an EVERY DOWN DE and that's an important thing for a high draft pick, don't you think?

His workouts suggest his speed isn't good.......he dropped 12lbs and still ran a very sub par 40 time.

[BigChiefFan]

His workouts suggest his speed isn't good.......he dropped 12lbs and still ran a very sub par 40 time.His PLAY says differently.

[Mecca]

I just don't see him as any more than a middle of the pck NFL DE. We should be looking for guys with the pro bowl upside in the 1st round since there will be some there.

[Coogs]

I no longer trust your player evaluation skills either..... :p

Mecca,

BTW, I am hoping Hodge emerges as the other starting CB. I really want to believe our draft system works. It appears it has with Mitchell at MLB. Many were throwing him under the bus, but he stepped it up. I'm hopeful Hodge, or Battle for that matter, can do the same at CB this year.

I just thought it was good to hear Green say... that in a cover two scheme Walls would be fine.

[ameliorated1216]

Couple of thoughts...

1. IMO, KC should draft the best player available at a likely posistion, IOW, if Ferguson, Leinhart, or Bush fell to 20th (I know, not possible) they should pick them. In more realistic terms, if Ngata, Bunkley, or Huff fell to 20th...

2. I think the Chiefs should trade down if a great player is not available... According to the draft pick value chart (commonly used by NFL teams) Chicago may be interested in trading their 1st & 3rd for KC's 1st. CB & DE are fairly deep this year into the 3rd round.

3rd, I know he won't be left by the 54th overall pick, but if he is, Max Jean-Gilles would be too much to pass up, especially since he could play tackle this year and take Shields place next.

Just my thoughts.

[Chiefnj]

Couple of thoughts...

1. IMO, KC should draft the best player available at a likely posistion, IOW, if Ferguson, Leinhart, or Bush fell to 20th (I know, not possible) they should pick them. In more realistic terms, if Ngata, Bunkley, or Huff fell to 20th...

2. I think the Chiefs should trade down if a great player is not available... According to the draft pick value chart (commonly used by NFL teams) Chicago may be interested in trading their 1st & 3rd for KC's 1st. CB & DE are fairly deep this year into the 3rd round.

3rd, I know he won't be left by the 54th overall pick, but if he is, Max Jean-Gilles would be too much to pass up, especially since he could play tackle this year and take Shields place next.

Just my thoughts.

Who do you think Chicago would be so interested in to lead to the trade you suggest?

[ameliorated1216]

Who do you think Chicago would be so interested in to lead to the trade you suggest?
Who knows, maybe DeMeco Ryans or Leonard Pope, take your pick of anyone, Chicago & KC doesn't have the same needs.

[ct]

Who do you think Chicago would be so interested in to lead to the trade you suggest?

And why Chicago? why KC?

[ameliorated1216]

Wow, ok look, I used a hypothetical... I used CHI and KC because the 20th pick = 850, CHI 26th = 700, CHI 3rd (88th) = 150. I choose CHI because it works perfectly... It doesn't matter who the team is, I was just saying if at 20th, a good pick isn't there, KC should try to get another 3rd or a 4th out of trading down.

[Chris Meck]

I agree with some of you; good football teams start with the line and move out. Our defensive line is inconsistent at best, other than Allen. Look at our offense, for example. Our line is awesome, and Priest Holmes flourishes, then gets hurt, and Johnson flourishes. All with an average at best WR corps. It's the line that dictates success.