Need Career Advice From The Older, More Experienced Folk

[The Rick]

Here's the story, I'll keep it concise:

I'm 28 (almost 29) years old, married, with a nearly 3 year old daughter. I currently work for county government doing IT work and make about 55k per year. I don't like my current role here, don't enjoy coming to work, and think that I'm underpaid in comparison to others here.

In July, if I stay with what I'm doing, I'm scheduled to get a raise to 65k. That's option #1.

Option #2 is that I applied for another position at the same county. It's more of a system administration role which I'm interested in. I think I'll like it more than what I'm doing now. There's the potential for a leadership aspect of this position in the future. Guaranteed to make 65k and maybe up to 70k.

Option #3 is with a small web development company. Something far different from government work. My background is in small business and I miss that kind of environment. I perceive lots of potential with this company including leadership (I'd be their first local developer...in the past it's been all offshore), but nothing guaranteed. I really enjoy what this company is all about. They're passionate about what they do and seem to have fun...things you won't find in government work. I expect to receive a formal offer from them soon, but have a feeling that it's going to be slightly less than the 65k that I could make. They recognize the disparity here and have stated that they would like to improve that salary within a year.

So, which option do I choose? Obviously, you can't beat the benefits, security, etc. of government work. However, the intangibles (environment, passion, pace, etc.) leave something to be desired.

No matter what I decide, there will be a significant raise from what I'm getting now.

The other question is, do I want to be labeled as a government worker? I've been here for nearly 5 years. Is it time to get out before receiving the label?

I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate*...

* unless I don't like the choice and end up doing something different

[leviw]

I'm not old or experienced, but Option 2 looks like the winner to me, unless there are negatives there that you didn't mention.

[seclark]

"do I want to be labeled as a government worker?"

who gives a shat as long as the paycheck cashes? i've kept the same job for almost 25 years. gone thru times when i've hated going in just like most everyone else that works. some people might try to bag on me a little for working where i do, but i couldn't care less. i've raised a family, paid for one house and sold it to build another, and have a pretty decent retirement saved up over the time i've worked there.

jmo,
sec

[Skip Towne]

County workers = One comin' one goin' one watchin' one mowin'.

[Iowanian]

Who gives a crap what people might think of where you work. Someone has to work for the govt, and if you're inside, you at least know people are trying to do the right thing or not...........Its a job for you with security, probably decent retirement, regular hours....which offset your oporuntity for decent raises(though that salary adjustment looks pretty good for govt).

There is nothing about your current job that should make you not able to look anyone in the eye. Pay your bills, feed your family and tell everyone else to get dipped.

I say weigh your options, and go with your insticts.....The new company might have potential, but it could also be tits up in 2 years. If you think its square, has potential to be something you'll enjoy more, and you're convinced you'll land on your feet if it fails...go for it.

[StcChief]

Go back to small business if they seem to have their financial act together, good product and good growth potential.

You'll likely work harder, be more satisfied, wear lots of hats, get to do alot of things and learn alot.

You can leverage that down the road pretty well.

[Clint in Wichita]

Stick with the govt. job. You will never, ever be fired, regardless of your performance. Plus you get fuggin' Arbor Day off.


IT guys don't do squat anyway, right?

[Wichita Lineman]

I'm old and retired and my advice is to make the move that you feel good about in your heart,everything else will follow. I made a life of following the money and now that it's almost over I wish I had done what made me happy even though it was less substantial and much less secure.

[ChiTown]

I stayed with my first lay (company) for 10+ years. BIG energy company, lot's of perks, lots of dough..............very unsatisfying. I started going smaller after that. So small, that I started my own company.

I find that the tradeoffs for working in small companies pay off, especially if individual effort is recognized and rewarded. In the event that you go to work for the small biz, make sure they can pay their bills, make sure that you know what ALL of their biz activites are and that no one deal can sink the company, make sure you get along with the people you are working for, make sure your input counts, and make sure that the risk (leaving the tit) is worth the reward (setting yourself up better financially and with job satisfaction).

GOOD LUCK!

[Fire Me Boy!]

I'm not the older demo you're looking for, but I"d also go with option #2... the change of pace/environment/scenery will make a big difference in wanting to go to work. Generally it's a bad idea to go with startup companies -- no security.

[Brock]

Time off is more important to me than money. I don't think anybody gets more time off than government employees.

[RedNFeisty]

Money is not always the answer, it helps tremendously but being happy is always the best. If you do not really like option one, take it out of the equation.

Small companies can go either way, if there are good owners that have a clue of what is going on than it may be a good choice to make.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Time off is more important to me than money. I don't think anybody gets more time off than government employees.
Yeah... damn government employees get the day off if someone farts.

[Rain Man]

What's your visa status?

[Bob Dole]

Yeah... damn government employees get the day off if someone farts.


If only...

[Clint in Wichita]

Money is not always the answer, it helps tremendously but being happy is always the best. If you do not really like option one, take it out of the equation.

Small companies can go either way, if there are good owners that have a clue of what is going on than it may be a good choice to make.


You and I know firsthand that most small business owners are morons that won't make it to year 5.

[RedNFeisty]

You and I know firsthand that most small business owners are morons that won't make it to year 5.

That is why there is a big "if" in there. :)

[Clint in Wichita]

That is why there is a big "if" in there. :)


It's a REAL big "if", since we have yet to meet a competent small business owner.

[MahiMike]

Stick with the Govt job. It's the last entity that'll still have a pension plan when you retire. You can always freelance for the other company on the side. I've been working in IT for 22 years and used to work 'on the side' accounting for 20% of my income. Today I still work on the side (real estate, misc other things).

The steady jobs are boring I know but slow and steady wins the race. Just remember to invest while you're young. Every dollar counts (even if it means no DirecTV).

[Rain Man]

You have to like your job, or you will rapidly burn out on it, no matter how easy it is. Which job do you like the best, and that's the one you should take. You spend too much time there to worry about things like salary and time off (within reason).

[luv]

I'd do whichever makes you the happiest, regardless of the pay. Even with what you're making now, you're better off than a lot of people.

[patteeu]

You have to like your job, or you will rapidly burn out on it, no matter how easy it is. Which job do you like the best, and that's the one you should take. You spend too much time there to worry about things like salary and time off (within reason).

I vote for this option too. Don't be blind to issues like money, security, time off, and growth potential (personal and financial), but as long as those things are within reason, follow your heart. If you like your job and you like the people you are working with/for, it will be a lot easier to go to work everyday.

[The Rick]

The time off, at least where I work, is a big misconception. We only get the following holidays which I believe are fairly standard:

New Year's Eve
New Year's Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving Day
Day After Thanksgiving
Christmas Eve
Christmas Day

This small company has been in business since 2001 so not only have they survived, they've survived the lean years.

Rain Man's point is spot on. The burn out factor is what I'm going through right now and isn't something I enjoy. The thing is, I could goof off and draw a good salary, but I wouldn't feel right about it and would still dread Mondays.

I never thought I'd be in a position where taking the govenment job would mean more money. Usually, it's opposite. More money (maybe) and more security sounds good. The problem though is if it's worth the intangibles or not.

[ChiefaRoo]

Here's the story, I'll keep it concise:

I'm 28 (almost 29) years old, married, with a nearly 3 year old daughter. I currently work for county government doing IT work and make about 55k per year. I don't like my current role here, don't enjoy coming to work, and think that I'm underpaid in comparison to others here.

In July, if I stay with what I'm doing, I'm scheduled to get a raise to 65k. That's option #1.

Option #2 is that I applied for another position at the same county. It's more of a system administration role which I'm interested in. I think I'll like it more than what I'm doing now. There's the potential for a leadership aspect of this position in the future. Guaranteed to make 65k and maybe up to 70k.

Option #3 is with a small web development company. Something far different from government work. My background is in small business and I miss that kind of environment. I perceive lots of potential with this company including leadership (I'd be their first local developer...in the past it's been all offshore), but nothing guaranteed. I really enjoy what this company is all about. They're passionate about what they do and seem to have fun...things you won't find in government work. I expect to receive a formal offer from them soon, but have a feeling that it's going to be slightly less than the 65k that I could make. They recognize the disparity here and have stated that they would like to improve that salary within a year.

So, which option do I choose? Obviously, you can't beat the benefits, security, etc. of government work. However, the intangibles (environment, passion, pace, etc.) leave something to be desired.

No matter what I decide, there will be a significant raise from what I'm getting now.

The other question is, do I want to be labeled as a government worker? I've been here for nearly 5 years. Is it time to get out before receiving the label?

I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate*...

* unless I don't like the choice and end up doing something different


Priorities as a married man and father.

1) Take care of your family - your wife and children come first
2) Don't change jobs unless you have a plan B already lined up.
3) Do what you love and have passion about - Make sure your new job has insurance so you can accomplish item #1
4) Start you own business and be your own boss - although you'll likely work much harder than if you work for someone else.

Most importantly dont' say things like "I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate" Step up and lead your family dude.

Now back the my regularly scheduled smartass opinions and trifling comments.

[The Rick]

I'd do whichever makes you the happiest, regardless of the pay. Even with what you're making now, you're better off than a lot of people.
I contemplated whether or not it was relevant to include the numbers and ended up doing it.

I know that I've been pretty fortunate in that regard. On the other hand, I'm in the Milwaukee area and salary/cost of living here is suprisingly higher here than in many other areas including the KC area.

[The Rick]

Most importantly dont' say things like "I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate" Step up and lead your family dude.
Thanks for the comment. That was more of a joke than anything. No way I'd really let a poll on a web site determine my future. :)

[ChiefaRoo]

Thanks for the comment. That was more of a joke than anything. No way I'd really let a poll on a web site determine my future. :)


Cool, just checking. Good luck.

[|Zach|]

It's a REAL big "if", since we have yet to meet a competent small business owner.
They are out there...

[BucEyedPea]

I've been workin' 15 going on 16 years, mostly self-employed with passion for my work and have had a lot more fun than others with more secure jobs. If work is 7/8ths of life...you better be happy and love what you're doing or be miserable and always wonder what may have been when you're older.

I learned a lesson from my Dad and an Uncle who both worked for the gov't for thirty years....security they had yes, but it came with a lot unhappiness, frustration and complaining with the bureaucratic mentality and working with people who value security over satisfaction with a job well done or being pushed to be "all that you can be" (oops! Did I just say that?) Both died young from the stress. Who and what you work around will rub off on you.

Ever see the level of quality of government work? Need I say more.

You make you're own security.

[Mile High Mania]

I haven't read the other responses... but, my quick take is the following.

You have 3 choices.. Option 1 and 2 appear to be almost the same pay. You hate Option 1 and think Option 2 could be more desirable.

So, that eliminates Option 1.

Option 3 appears to be the one that you think will be most desirable to you compared to the other 2 options. More opportunities ... outside of government work... but, the pay may be less than either option.

Honestly, you're screaming that you want Option 3. So, if it's not going to crush you financially and the opportunity to hit that 65k mark within a year is within your reach, take it.

KNOW THIS

I'm only 35, but I've learned the grass is not always greener. This is the time when you need to start growing in your career and increasing your ability to make more money, but it won't matter if you hate your job.

So, go for #3... take a chance.

[The Rick]

I guess, it comes down to a couple of questions:

1) Is it bad to be a long-time government IT worker? Obviously, if you work for the government your whole life, it doesn't matter. But if I'm looking for an IT job in 10 years and my resume shows that I've been working for the government for the past 15 years, is that a bad thing? Is there really a government "label", or is that a myth.

2) How much is working in an environment that you really enjoy and look forward to worth versus working in one you aren't sure about or haven't really liked, but could put up with?

[ChiefaRoo]

They are out there...


I know a lot of good, smart and very capable business owners in the Hutchinson, Wichita area. Some big co's (greater than 600 employees), some medium to small (75 to 300 employess)

They're out there.

If you can find a small enough company where you can work with the owner try and make stock ownership in the business part of your deal. Minority ownership has some real weaknesses but if the guy has an annual business evaluation plan in place you can use that to track your stock value without worrying about getting boned on the old minority discount. If you start your own business with a partner make sure you do it 50-50 or better yet you get 51% otherwise you have no real control.

[BucEyedPea]

I just went back and read the other posts....usually what you love you will be successful at. I do not think that lack of financial success and love of your work do not go hand and hand....often they do.

You are also still young enough to make a mistake and can change it.
My brother worked with the Army Corps of Engineers and now works for a private construction firm and is much happier.

[Mr. Laz]

option #1 AND option #2

keep you current job ... apply for the new job

IF you get the new job, make the final decision then.


with a family you can't afford to take to much risk unless you have big savings as backup.

[|Zach|]

I know a lot of good, smart and very capable business owners in the Hutchinson, Wichita area. Some big co's (greater than 600 employees), some medium to small (75 to 300 employess)

They're out there.

If you can find a small enough company where you can work with the owner try and make stock ownership in the business part of your deal. Minority ownership has some real weaknesses but if the guy has an annual business evaluation plan in place you can use that to track your stock value without worrying about getting boned on the old minority discount. If you start your own business with a partner make sure you do it 50-50 or better yet you get 51% otherwise you have no real control.
I was raised by a great small business owner.

[Fat Elvis]

Priorities as a married man and father.

1) Take care of your family - your wife and children come first
2) Don't change jobs unless you have a plan B already lined up.
3) Do what you love and have passion about - Make sure your new job has insurance so you can accomplish item #1
4) Start you own business and be your own boss - although you'll likely work much harder than if you work for someone else.

Most importantly dont' say things like "I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate" Step up and lead your family dude.

Now back the my regularly scheduled smartass opinions and trifling comments.

Read #1 over and over again. No job, no matter how much you like it initially will keep you happy if #1 isn't being fulfilled. Right now, you fret from 9-5; imagine fretting 24/7 if you don't have good insurance and something happens to someone you love.

I can be paid to be bored, but I can never put a pricetag on peace of mind.

That is just me; as I've gotten older and have a family, I am much, much more risk averse. If I was young and single, I'd go balls out.

[luv]

I guess, it comes down to a couple of questions:

1) Is it bad to be a long-time government IT worker? Obviously, if you work for the government your whole life, it doesn't matter. But if I'm looking for an IT job in 10 years and my resume shows that I've been working for the government for the past 15 years, is that a bad thing? Is there really a government "label", or is that a myth.

2) How much is working in an environment that you really enjoy and look forward to worth versus working in one you aren't sure about or haven't really liked, but could put up with?
Sometimes employers look at how long you've been employed along with where you've been employed. Longivity (sp?) says a lot, too.

[The Rick]

Read #1 over and over again. No job, no matter how much you like it initially will keep you happy if #1 isn't being fulfilled. Right now, you fret from 9-5; imagine fretting 24/7 if you don't have good insurance and something happens to someone you love.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it will be a big decrease in pay (I don't know what the pay for option #3 will be yet). I'm guessing 5k difference max (which would still be 5k more per year than I make now).

As for the risk of a small company, it certainly is a risk, but as I said in an earlier post, they've been in business since 2001 so it's not like they are a brand new startup...

[Fat Elvis]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it will be a big decrease in pay (I don't know what the pay for option #3 will be yet). I'm guessing 5k difference max (which would still be 5k more per year than I make now).

As for the risk of a small company, it certainly is a risk, but as I said in an earlier post, they've been in business since 2001 so it's not like they are a brand new startup...


I was speaking more towards the benefits packages you get from gubment work. The health packages tend to be pretty top notch. You need good insurance, not just insurance. One catastrophic health event with poor to middlin' insurance, and you can be wiped out.

Otherwise, go with you like best.

[Rain Man]

I never thought I'd be in a position where taking the govenment job would mean more money. Usually, it's opposite. More money (maybe) and more security sounds good. The problem though is if it's worth the intangibles or not.


Interestingly, we lost an employee a few months ago to a higher-paying government job. I think that they're no longer behind the private sector in compensation, especially when you consider the oft-ludicrous pension benefits. I know a guy who started working for the state government in New Mexico at 18, and he retired at 43. That's insane.

[cdcox]

Option 1 doesn't even sound like an option.

In weighing Option 2 and 3, forget about the money for now. The difference is probably not that much and the private position may have more opportunity for growth than the government position. The real benefit of the government job is the benefits and security. Will the extra job satisfaction of the private job offset the security of the government job. You can probably work at the gov job till you retire; you'll probably have to make a few changes along the way if you go to the private sector. Are you prepared to be do that?

[chagrin]

I have to agree with others here - why is working for your government a "sell out" gig?

Dude, you're kidding right? Security, good advancement opportunities, pay raises. It's not like you are stuck with a 30k gig forever and not getting any respect.

I say, congrats and go for the Admin role. You have to play it a little safer now, with the family and all - this way you can do that long enough to feel comfy, then open your own consultant business after 15 years or something.?

Anyway, Gov't job, yeah, that's it!

[Rain Man]

I would agree with his concern that being a long-time government worker might hurt his resume if he later tries to move to the private sector. While I know that there are a lot of hard-working government workers, there's a bias in many parts of the private sector that government workers enjoy a 9 to 5 existence that hasn't existed in the private sector for decades.

[StcChief]

I would agree with his concern that being a long-time government worker might hurt his resume if he later tries to move to the private sector. While I know that there are a lot of hard-working government workers, there's a bias in many parts of the private sector that government workers enjoy a 9 to 5 existence that hasn't existed in the private sector for decades.

Agree. In IT unless your doing something cutting edge it's not going to be good long term 5 years (I technological lifetime in IT) OK.

Plus some the folks you will have to work with.... OMFG. How slow can you go to drag out everything...

[harpes]

Stick with goverment. Job satisfaction is what it is cracked up to be.

[BucEyedPea]

I would agree with his concern that being a long-time government worker might hurt his resume if he later tries to move to the private sector. While I know that there are a lot of hard-working government workers, there's a bias in many parts of the private sector that government workers enjoy a 9 to 5 existence that hasn't existed in the private sector for decades.

Yep! Know for being lazy 'cause it's a cush situation.

Know why that is?

Because they are NOT subject to market forces to stay competitive.
If they do a lousy job....they just can tax the people more to throw money at the problem. It's not like a private firm has that luxury...they just go out of business if the do not remain competitive and do a good job.

Rick, I think you know what you want in your gut...trust that gut instinct.

[Nzoner]

You have to like your job, or you will rapidly burn out on it, no matter how easy it is. Which job do you like the best, and that's the one you should take. You spend too much time there to worry about things like salary and time off (within reason).

I agree with Kevin,besides if you like what you do you'll be more productive and that can definitely lead to bigger and better things.

On a personal note,I up and quit a job I was burnt out on when I was 28 to start a company with my wife.We had very little start up money and were behind the 8 ball from the start.That was 15 years ago and it's now become something even we didn't envision.

My point is,security is not always best,as someone else said you make your own security and by taking less of it to do something you enjoy will make you work harder to achieve it.

[Baby Lee]

Here's the story, I'll keep it concise:

I'm 28 (almost 29) years old, married, with a nearly 3 year old daughter. I currently work for county government doing IT work and make about 55k per year. I don't like my current role here, don't enjoy coming to work, and think that I'm underpaid in comparison to others here.

In July, if I stay with what I'm doing, I'm scheduled to get a raise to 65k. That's option #1.

Option #2 is that I applied for another position at the same county. It's more of a system administration role which I'm interested in. I think I'll like it more than what I'm doing now. There's the potential for a leadership aspect of this position in the future. Guaranteed to make 65k and maybe up to 70k.

Option #3 is with a small web development company. Something far different from government work. My background is in small business and I miss that kind of environment. I perceive lots of potential with this company including leadership (I'd be their first local developer...in the past it's been all offshore), but nothing guaranteed. I really enjoy what this company is all about. They're passionate about what they do and seem to have fun...things you won't find in government work. I expect to receive a formal offer from them soon, but have a feeling that it's going to be slightly less than the 65k that I could make. They recognize the disparity here and have stated that they would like to improve that salary within a year.

So, which option do I choose? Obviously, you can't beat the benefits, security, etc. of government work. However, the intangibles (environment, passion, pace, etc.) leave something to be desired.

No matter what I decide, there will be a significant raise from what I'm getting now.

The other question is, do I want to be labeled as a government worker? I've been here for nearly 5 years. Is it time to get out before receiving the label?

I leave it up to you, ChiefsPlanet to decide my fate*...

* unless I don't like the choice and end up doing something different
65K and the security of a Govt job in MILWAUKEE? You're practically a friggen millionaire!! :p

[Baby Lee]

Yeah... damn government employees get the day off if someone farts.
A good CP poop thread, and The Rick get a month in Aruba.

[StcChief]

Stick with goverment. Job satisfaction is what it is cracked up to be.

Just say NO to gobment work. (unless your the sub-contractor)