Toyota is going to save American car manufacturers...

[htismaqe]

I heard this on the radio yesterday morning, so I talked to someone I know that works for Toyota (auto finance) about it and apparently there's some fire with the smoke...

It's rumored that Toyota is going to raise prices across the board on all makes and models in an effort to SLOW SALES.

Why?

Because they're scared to death of GM and Ford going out of business. They would rather slow current sales than realize the precipitous drop in sales that they anticipate if GM and Ford were to drop out of the race.

In short, they fear an anti-Japanese backlash...

[StcChief]

Not surprised they are raising the prices...

They have alway been real proud of their cars.
Overpriced IMHO.

They don't really negotiate with buyers, another one will walk in the door.

[beavis]

Not surprised they are raising the prices...

They have alway been real proud of their cars.
Overpriced IMHO.

They don't really negotiate with buyers, another one will walk in the door.
They usually last past 20,000 miles without major maintenence costs too. The extra price is well worth it IMO.

[StcChief]

They usually last past 20,000 miles without major maintenence costs too. The extra price is well worth it IMO.

They are good cars...no question about it.

Like all mechanic things if they are maintained...

The japs seem use better components from sub contractors and have higher quality standards. Hence the higher price.

I have had very good luck with Nissan lasting 200K plus with normal
mainteance items.

[htismaqe]

They usually last past 20,000 miles without major maintenence costs too. The extra price is well worth it IMO.

I've put 22,000 miles on my Corolla in 7 months. I've already saved money because warranty maintenance is every 5k miles instead of 3k miles. I've gotten my Corolla serviced 4 times whereas my Jeep would have requred 7 maintenance service visits.

Between maintenance, upkeep, insurance, and tags, I'm saving almost $500 a month...

[Saulbadguy]

I've never been a big Toyota fan. They are too expensive as it is. I like Nissan better.

[StcChief]

I've never been a big Toyota fan. They are too expensive as it is. I like Nissan better.

I just couldn't get past the arrogant sales folks and standing / not budging on their prices. Same with Honda.....
Take it or leave it.

I'd done my homework on the cars I was considering and had the
invoice information (pre internet) on the cars.

They ruined a potential long term customer with their attitude.

The American dealer guys would throw the 'you cant get parts for jap cars' BS at me.

When it came to overall performance / bang for the buck the
Toyota/Honda are overpriced.

[Eleazar]

The American dealer guys would throw the 'you cant get parts for jap cars' BS at me.

Haha. They still say that?

[htismaqe]

Haha. They still say that?

The Ford dealership here tried to tell my brother and his wife that they should pay $13k for a used Windstar with 75k miles because they wouldn't be able to get the BRAND NEW $13k Kia serviced around here...

[StcChief]

Haha. They still say that?

no this was in the 80s....Glad I didn't fall for that line of crap.

Just been driving jap since 79.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Our Altima has been an outstanding car.

[StcChief]

Our Altima has been an outstanding car.

They are... x-MIL had two. 94, 99.

I had 87 Stanza (pre-Altima) size car. 259K miles, high gear on tranny went.

[jspchief]

Wow. Really sounds like the consumer is winning here. :rolleyes:

[ChiefsfaninPA]

Let them raise prices. I will continue to walk 30 miles one way to work in a boycott of fuel prices anyhow.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I can't imagine a real "backlash." You'd think that at least as many people would continue to buy "foreign cars."

[StcChief]

Yeah. as long as the price difference isn't too high,
I just hope the others Nissan, Honda, Mazda
don't fall in line with Toyota.

[beavis]

I've put 22,000 miles on my Corolla in 7 months. I've already saved money because warranty maintenance is every 5k miles instead of 3k miles. I've gotten my Corolla serviced 4 times whereas my Jeep would have requred 7 maintenance service visits.

Between maintenance, upkeep, insurance, and tags, I'm saving almost $500 a month...
Service on my Ford is the main reason I'll never be buying from them again. After having my transmission fail TWICE, they didn't see any reason to offer me a loaner car while they had it in their shop for a month. The fact that the sold me a lemon annoys me, the fact that they in no way shape or form tried to correct the situation infuriated me.

It's ok though, I finally joined the litigious society we live in and took a chunk out of their asses.

Think I'll be looking at Acura next time I buy...

[jspchief]

I can't imagine a real "backlash." You'd think that at least as many people would continue to buy "foreign cars."Personally, I just think it's a clever marketing scheme to justify across the board price increases.

[ChiefsfaninPA]

Personally, I just think it's a clever marketing scheme to justify across the board price increases.


I don't even know if I believe that this came from Toyota. It could be Ford or GM putting this info. out to make you not want to buy a Toyota. In turn helping them sell some cars.

[htismaqe]

Personally, I just think it's a clever marketing scheme to justify across the board price increases.

This isn't marketing at all. The info I heard on the radio was someone who was friends with a Toyota middle manager at a plant in the US. I corroborated the rumor through a personal acquaintance.

This isn't necessarily public info...yet.

[htismaqe]

I don't even know if I believe that this came from Toyota. It could be Ford or GM putting this info. out to make you not want to buy a Toyota. In turn helping them sell some cars.

This info is coming from Toyota "grunts". This is not marketing or PR. This is Toyota worker bees talking around the water cooler.

[Calcountry]

They usually last past 20,000 miles without major maintenence costs too. The extra price is well worth it IMO.The big three have attitudes like the CEO in that movie Robocop.

Spare parts for 30 years.

They are designed to be pieces of chit. If they weren't, it would put their parts divisions out of business.

[StcChief]

This isn't marketing at all. The info I heard on the radio was someone who was friends with a Toyota middle manager at a plant in the US. I corroborated the rumor through a personal acquaintance.

This isn't necessarily public info...yet.

the marketing of the price increase justification should be interesting.

Major Quality advantage, rollout some 200-300K mile vehicles with owner testimontials, blah,blah,blah

[jspchief]

This isn't marketing at all. The info I heard on the radio was someone who was friends with a Toyota middle manager at a plant in the US. I corroborated the rumor through a personal acquaintance.

This isn't necessarily public info...yet.Sorry, no sale.

Toyota knows they have a product they can charge more for. If they raise prices, it will be because they know they can. Not because they think selling cars is hurting their image. The collapse and GM opens up a huge market share. The rexjakes and can go on about buying American, but the reality is when there is no American to buy, they'll buy whatever's out there.

[Calcountry]

I just couldn't get past the arrogant sales folks and standing / not budging on their prices. Same with Honda.....
Take it or leave it.

I'd done my homework on the cars I was considering and had the
invoice information (pre internet) on the cars.

They ruined a potential long term customer with their attitude.

The American dealer guys would throw the 'you cant get parts for jap cars' BS at me.

When it came to overall performance / bang for the buck the
Toyota/Honda are overpriced.Not out here.

[Calcountry]

The real reason they are raising prices, is because they can.

They have the better product, that is in demand. They have beaten the competition, and they know that they, GM, cannot lower prices without going BK, so the economically optimum strategy is to raise your prices so that the margin between GM's floor and Toyota's selling price is less. Maximize profits IS the name of the game.

Sounds like they have someone smart running their corp. Its too freaking late to make money when there is a downturn. "Make hay while the sun shines."

[StcChief]

Not out here. West Coast is competitive
with Jap cars (according to my cousin).

Midwest towns even STL which is decent size with several different dealers. I think they are in cahoots...

Would consider going to a smaller town for next purchase. outside metro area. Or look for off-lease unit 2-3 years old.

[rageeumr]

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I just don't see how one of the big 3 will ever go out of business, anyway. I think the government will keep them afloat just like the airlines.....

[burt]

I just couldn't get past the arrogant sales folks and standing / not budging on their prices. Same with Honda.....
Take it or leave it.

I'd done my homework on the cars I was considering and had the
invoice information (pre internet) on the cars.

They ruined a potential long term customer with their attitude.

The American dealer guys would throw the 'you cant get parts for jap cars' BS at me.

When it came to overall performance / bang for the buck the
Toyota/Honda are overpriced.

I sold Toyota's for 13 years. Not ALL Toyota dealers are like that. I was a "good ol' boy" and I was MORE than willing to negotiate. That was a dealership problem, not a manufacturer problem.

[htismaqe]

Sorry, no sale.

Toyota knows they have a product they can charge more for. If they raise prices, it will be because they know they can. Not because they think selling cars is hurting their image. The collapse and GM opens up a huge market share. The rexjakes and can go on about buying American, but the reality is when there is no American to buy, they'll buy whatever's out there.

You're assuming the government won't step in.

They will.

[PastorMikH]

They are... x-MIL had two. 94, 99.

I had 87 Stanza (pre-Altima) size car. 259K miles, high gear on tranny went.



The wife is driving an 87 Stanza. Only has about 75k on it. It belonged to grandmother, who bought it new. We bought it when she gave up driving.

[Brock]

I sold Toyota's for 13 years. Not ALL Toyota dealers are like that. I was a "good ol' boy" and I was MORE than willing to negotiate. That was a dealership problem, not a manufacturer problem.

It helps a bunch if you're in a market large enough to have a few toyota dealers. If there's just one in town, they're usually assholes.

[PastorMikH]

You're assuming the government won't step in.

They will.



Next up, the Chevrolet L car....

[htismaqe]

It helps a bunch if you're in a market large enough to have a few toyota dealers. If there's just one in town, they're usually assholes.

There's only one in Des Moines and they were great to deal with...

[HemiEd]

The truth is that if GM and Ford went down the effect that it would have on the world economy would severely hurt Toyota. They are smart enough to see this.

[Floridafan]

My personal preference is Audi. We own 3, Audi A4's. I think they are the best engineered car for the price. They cover all maintenance. It's a great car and a great price.

Being from Detroit the problem with American cars is Unions. My mother is 84 and retired from GM 25 yrs ago. She worked in the cafeteria clearing off tables. She was paid $23. an hour. That was 25 yrs ago for unskilled labor. To this day they pay all her medical bills and she pays $5. for a prescription. It's nuts, plain and simple.

You can't fire a union worker regardless of how bad they are, insubordinate etc. The big 3 did it to themselves not paying attention and figuring we, the public would pay whatever they asked for a car.

In the 70's in Detroit they looked around and only saw big gas guzzling American made cars and ignored the fact that California was full of Jap and German cars. It has come back to bite them on the butt.

[Eleazar]

My mother is 84 and retired from GM 25 yrs ago. She worked in the cafeteria clearing off tables. She was paid $23. an hour. That was 25 yrs ago for unskilled labor.

Good lord.

And people wonder why they are in financial trouble. :shake:

[svuba]

Sorry, no sale.

Toyota knows they have a product they can charge more for. If they raise prices, it will be because they know they can. Not because they think selling cars is hurting their image. The collapse and GM opens up a huge market share. The rexjakes and can go on about buying American, but the reality is when there is no American to buy, they'll buy whatever's out there.


Exactly. This is complete BS. Toyota would LOVE the big 3 to go under. If you think americans will stop buying cars because they are all imports, then I guess we should all be running around naked, because there is exactly zero clothes made in this country.

[burt]

Yeah. as long as the price difference isn't too high,
I just hope the others Nissan, Honda, Mazda
don't fall in line with Toyota.

Never happen. Toyota is the ONLY foreign manufacturer giving the big 3 a run for their money. In the Kansas City region, last month, Ford came in 1st, Toyota, 2nd, and Chevy 3rd.

[Eleazar]

I can't imagine that Toyota would want to keep one of the big 3 afloat. If one of them went down, that's just more cars for them to sell. I'm sure that Toyota would be more than happy to ramp up production capacity to meet the demand.

[Pitt Gorilla]

My personal preference is Audi. We own 3, Audi A4's. I think they are the best engineered car for the price. They cover all maintenance. It's a great car and a great price.

Being from Detroit the problem with American cars is Unions. My mother is 84 and retired from GM 25 yrs ago. She worked in the cafeteria clearing off tables. She was paid $23. an hour. That was 25 yrs ago for unskilled labor. To this day they pay all her medical bills and she pays $5. for a prescription. It's nuts, plain and simple.

You can't fire a union worker regardless of how bad they are, insubordinate etc. The big 3 did it to themselves not paying attention and figuring we, the public would pay whatever they asked for a car.

In the 70's in Detroit they looked around and only saw big gas guzzling American made cars and ignored the fact that California was full of Jap and German cars. It has come back to bite them on the butt.That's just silly. Respect to your mom, but that is crazy.

[burt]

You're assuming the government won't step in.

They will.

SUUUuuuuuurrrreeeeee!!!!!

"We're from the government.....and we're here to help!"

[burt]

It helps a bunch if you're in a market large enough to have a few toyota dealers. If there's just one in town, they're usually assholes.

7 Toyota dealers in the metro area......and we are assholes, but we try to hide it when we are at work!

[Eleazar]

7 Toyota dealers in the metro area......and we are assholes, but we try to hide it when we are at work!

Which dealer are you at?

[burt]

There's only one in Des Moines and they were great to deal with...

New manager there, Phil, is a very nice guy!!!!

[burt]

Which dealer are you at?

Superior......

[rageeumr]

SUUUuuuuuurrrreeeeee!!!!!

"We're from the government.....and we're here to help!"

Do you really think that the government wouldn't step in with special loans/subsidies/etc. if one of the big 3 was actually going to close shop? Look at how many of these programs were launched to help dying airlines, and there are far more airlines than there are car manufacturers in this country. The big 3 are far too large of a part of the US's economy to just let them die. And I agree, the closing of one of these companies hurts everybody (including Toyota) in the short term. Long term, once the market recovers, it might be good for Toyota.

[morphius]

Is it really the big three now that Chrystler is now in bed with Daimler?

[burt]

My personal preference is Audi. We own 3, Audi A4's. I think they are the best engineered car for the price. They cover all maintenance. It's a great car and a great price.

Being from Detroit the problem with American cars is Unions. My mother is 84 and retired from GM 25 yrs ago. She worked in the cafeteria clearing off tables. She was paid $23. an hour. That was 25 yrs ago for unskilled labor. To this day they pay all her medical bills and she pays $5. for a prescription. It's nuts, plain and simple.

You can't fire a union worker regardless of how bad they are, insubordinate etc. The big 3 did it to themselves not paying attention and figuring we, the public would pay whatever they asked for a car.

In the 70's in Detroit they looked around and only saw big gas guzzling American made cars and ignored the fact that California was full of Jap and German cars. It has come back to bite them on the butt.

All this is true. Not to mention the fact that during the 80's and 90's GM basically put out crap. The vehicles made by Chevy right now, is the best that they have EVER produced. The problem is that we have to make these great vehicles for 6 years before the public believes it!!

[burt]

Is it really the big three now that Chrystler is now in bed with Daimler?

Absolutely. Mercedes designed the Crossfire.

[Miles]

Nice parody thread.

[burt]

Do you really think that the government wouldn't step in with special loans/subsidies/etc. if one of the big 3 was actually going to close shop? Look at how many of these programs were launched to help dying airlines, and there are far more airlines than there are car manufacturers in this country. The big 3 are far too large of a part of the US's economy to just let them die. And I agree, the closing of one of these companies hurts everybody (including Toyota) in the short term. Long term, once the market recovers, it might be good for Toyota.

I will tell you what I really think.... I think the government can't help themselves...let alone the entire automobile industry.

[burt]

Nice parody thread.

Hunh???????

[HemiEd]

I can't imagine that Toyota would want to keep one of the big 3 afloat. If one of them went down, that's just more cars for them to sell. I'm sure that Toyota would be more than happy to ramp up production capacity to meet the demand.

People need to have money to buy them. A full recession would happen if either Ford or GM went down.

[morphius]

Absolutely. Mercedes designed the Crossfire.
I'm not trying to say that Chrystler/Dodge is out of the picture by any means, honestly I think they build some of the best looking cars out there right now. What I was going for is that since they are now, from the looks of it, run by Mercedes, can we really consider them one of the big three, aka big 3 US auto manufacturers.

[morphius]

I will tell you what I really think.... I think the government can't help themselves...let alone the entire automobile industry.
That has never stopped them from trying though, now has it?

LOL!

[htismaqe]

New manager there, Phil, is a very nice guy!!!!

I think my salesman was Steve...

[Kerberos]

Never happen. Toyota is the ONLY foreign manufacturer giving the big 3 a run for their money. In the Kansas City region, last month, Ford came in 1st, Toyota, 2nd, and Chevy 3rd.

Just how far is it to be considered "IN" the Kansas City Region ?

It is JUST KC or is it KC and just so many miles AROUND KC as well ?

Just interested to know how far the Regions reach!


.

[burt]

I think my salesman was Steve...

If you EVER have a problem there, ask to talk to Phil Johnson, you can tell him you know me. He will go above and beyond to help you.

[burt]

Just how far is it to be considered "IN" the Kansas City Region ?

It is JUST KC or is it KC and just so many miles AROUND KC as well ?

Just interested to know how far the Regions reach!


.

Actually, it is the KC "zone", and it is the greater kansas City metro area. We are in the South Central region...which goes from Parts of Nebraska all the way south to parts of Texas.

[PastorMikH]

Being from Detroit the problem with American cars is Unions. My mother is 84 and retired from GM 25 yrs ago. She worked in the cafeteria clearing off tables. She was paid $23. an hour. That was 25 yrs ago for unskilled labor. To this day they pay all her medical bills and she pays $5. for a prescription. It's nuts, plain and simple.



I have heard (unsubstantiated rumor mind you) that approx $1,600 of every GM car sale goes to pay their pensions.

[Kerberos]

Actually, it is the KC "zone", and it is the greater kansas City metro area. We are in the South Central region...which goes from Parts of Nebraska all the way south to parts of Texas.


I just bought my new 06 Trailblazer from Holm Chevrolet in Abilene KS and was curious if they were part of the Region/Zone and if you say it reaches from parts of NE to parts of TX then I am assuming that my purchase was part of that monthly sales total? :hmmm:


BTW I was shown a customer satisfaction sheet while I was buying in my vehicle 20 miles down the hwy from my hometown and Holm was listed in the top 5 in sales and customer satisfaction compared to my hometown Chevrolet dealer Jim Clark that was near the bottom of the list on both sides of the paper in the REGION. Is that the same Region/Zone you are speaking of?


.

[Eleazar]

People need to have money to buy them. A full recession would happen if either Ford or GM went down.

With as much money as GM is losing, wouldn't our GDP go up if they folded? :p

[HemiEd]

With as much money as GM is losing, wouldn't our GDP go up if they folded? :p

I know you are kidding, but damn I hope we never have to find out. Five years later we are still trying to recover in the Chicago area from Motorola moving production to China. That affected so many suppliers that it was devastating to the area. I think the automotive shock would be hundreds of times that of the cell business.

[jspchief]

When GM goes under, all the people that lose their jobs can get hired for the jobs vacated by all the Mexicans we ship back.

[Saulbadguy]

When GM goes under, all the people that lose their jobs can get hired for the jobs vacated by all the Mexicans we ship back.
Excellent plan!

:clap:

[Eleazar]

When GM goes under, all the people that lose their jobs can get hired for the jobs vacated by all the Mexicans we ship back.

Brilliant!

Recxjake's dad can tend the flower beds outside my office building.

[jspchief]

Brilliant!

Recxjake's dad can tend the flower beds outside my office building.Just keep in mind he'll need $65 per hour, and a pension for him and the next three generations of his family.

[Eleazar]

Just keep in mind he'll need $65 per hour, and a pension for him and the next three generations of his family.

No way, he's going to be dragging the hose around to water them too. That's at least an $80/hour job.

[burt]

I just bought my new 06 Trailblazer from Holm Chevrolet in Abilene KS and was curious if they were part of the Region/Zone and if you say it reaches from parts of NE to parts of TX then I am assuming that my purchase was part of that monthly sales total? :hmmm:


BTW I was shown a customer satisfaction sheet while I was buying in my vehicle 20 miles down the hwy from my hometown and Holm was listed in the top 5 in sales and customer satisfaction compared to my hometown Chevrolet dealer Jim Clark that was near the bottom of the list on both sides of the paper in the REGION. Is that the same Region/Zone you are speaking of?


.

I would assume so, but there is no way they were in the top 5 in sales....maybe customer satisfaction. The kansas city metro would lead that catagory. Not some small town dealer.

[Kerberos]

I would assume so, but there is no way they were in the top 5 in sales....maybe customer satisfaction. The kansas city metro would lead that catagory. Not some small town dealer.


Seems to me it was in satisfaction of the sale and for service after the sale.

I don't remember .... I was too busy checking out the girl they had running around the office area that had big hooters!

:D

.

[Uncle_Ted]

There's only one in Des Moines and they were great to deal with...

They are/were great to deal with, but when I tried about 5 years ago, they were still a few $000 too high for me. I did a ton of homework before shopping so my expectations were not unrealistic (I ended up buying a used acura from a private owner).

[Uncle_Ted]

I have heard (unsubstantiated rumor mind you) that approx $1,600 of every GM car sale goes to pay their pensions.

That's not a rumor. I don't remember the exact number, but their CEO was interviewed on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago and the number he gave was in the ballpark.

[Mr. Laz]

why doesn't the government just raise import taxes on cars (and on stuff from china)

then we get the money and help U.S. businesses.

[Brock]

why doesn't the government just raise import taxes on cars (and on stuff from china)

then we get the money and help U.S. businesses.

Help US businesses do what? Produce more crap that we already don't want to buy?

[Uncle_Ted]

This whole argument about whether the govt would choose to bail out a major US automaker, and whether or not they even should, kind of misses the point. This isn't my area of practice, but it's my understanding that any of the big 3 could basically force a partial bailout by declaring bankruptcy and then dumping a chunk of their pension obligations on the pension benefit guaranty corporation (PBGC). While the PBGC claims that it doesn't receive taxpayer funding, they are already in the hole by several billion dollars -- regardless of how or from whom they they borrow those funds, the debt is still an obligation of the U.S. govt.

So it would be a bailout of sorts -- and for better or worse it would be out of the hands of the politicians.

[morphius]

why doesn't the government just raise import taxes on cars (and on stuff from china)

then we get the money and help U.S. businesses.
Because the Chinese have some might rich lobbiests?

Of course that doesn't help us with the Japanese since a lot of their cars are being built here.

[Uncle_Ted]

why doesn't the government just raise import taxes on cars (and on stuff from china)

then we get the money and help U.S. businesses.

OK, who got ahold of Laz's password ... :)

Because it starts a trade war. Most of what Japan imports from us consists of food and raw materials (i.e. commodities). They can slap a tariff on us right back and hurt us more than we'd hurt them (because Japanese cars would still be competitve in the U.S. market even at a higher price (which is what started this thread, actually) while US beef, grains, fruits, steel, etc. would not be). Toyota, Nissan, Honda, et al. could live with a small drop in sales ... family farms and U.S. manufacturers could not ---> which leads to another govt. bailout.

[redbrian]

Biggest piece of crap I ever owned was a Nissian, so in my case I'll never own another Japanese car again.

I have over 100,000 on my F-150 and over 130,000 on my Merc, only thing I've done to either is routine maintenances.

[recxjake]

"Imminent GM bankruptcy was always fiction, created by Wall Street and the media," Lutz said.

Article Source: http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/inde...12-000958-1413

GM is not going bankrupt

1. In 2007 the pension liabilities will start going down, a lot of the old farts that had outrageous pension plans given to them will start croaking

2. GM has agreed to a 13 billion dollar deal with the unions so they now will be paying copays, and crap like that

3. They have cut exec pay, and trimmed corporate job levels

4. Overseas sales growth is double digit

5. GM will return to profitability THIS year... 3rd quarter

6. GM has 20 + billion in cash reserves

7. If GM is going to have a future its all about the product....

New Tahoe, Yukon, Escalades are the industry leaders in everything.... most importantly MPG.... 22 is very good!

New Silverado and Sierra... pics havent been released yet, but will be desplayed at the Texas Car Show.... these will be the best trucks ever made

Saturn is back!
Aura... also a hybrid version
Outlook
Vue.... also a hyrbrid version
Sky
Astra--- next year

Also from other brands.....

GMC Acadia
Buick Enclave
Buick Lucerne
All new Pontaic GTO
All new Chevy Camaro.... etc etc



GM has had serioius quality issues in the past.... it will take years for the public to regain its trust in GM... but hopefully people will give them a test drive before they buy a new car or truck

[recxjake]

http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/newyork_2006/index_flash.html

[recxjake]

based on what?

Just wait, ill post the pics here soon..... the people that have seen them... over at gminsidenews.com said that they are "awesome"

[burt]

Biggest piece of crap I ever owned was a Nissian, so in my case I'll never own another Japanese car again.

I have over 100,000 on my F-150 and over 130,000 on my Merc, only thing I've done to either is routine maintenances.


Every manufacturer has stories like this going both ways.

Biggest piece of crap I ever owned was a _______________, so in my case I'll never own another Japanese car again.

I have over 100,000 on my __________and over 130,000 on my ____________, only thing I've done to either is routine maintenances.

There is someone or someones, that can fill in the blank with EVERY make and model(even Lexus)

GM is building very quality vehicles. The 80's and 90's can't boast that. So, once again, it will take years before the consumer realizes that we are building a great vehicle and a great value.

[burt]

based on what?

MY OPINION!!!! sayeth recxjake and Dale Mercer

[recxjake]

I'm not so concerned about the appearance. As long as it still looks like a truck and not some retarded Avalanche/Ridgeline piece of shit.

I was more interested in what new features would make it the best truck ever.

MPG, looks, engine

[burt]

Last check I did on "J.D. Powers", Chevy trucks ruled. As to new features....I really don't know.......yet. I am sure recxjake does......

[redbrian]

Every manufacturer has stories like this going both ways.

Biggest piece of crap I ever owned was a _______________, so in my case I'll never own another Japanese car again.

I have over 100,000 on my __________and over 130,000 on my ____________, only thing I've done to either is routine maintenances.

There is someone or someones, that can fill in the blank with EVERY make and model(even Lexus)

GM is building very quality vehicles. The 80's and 90's can't boast that. So, once again, it will take years before the consumer realizes that we are building a great vehicle and a great value.

This is very true, however the Japanese are building some of the dullest looking cars in the world, they all look alike (except maybe that square butt ugly thang I've been seeing lately).

Chrysler, Ford and GM are putting out some really good looking machines, which will run a last just as well if not better than the Japanese stuff.

[recxjake]

Will a navigation system be an option?

yes

[Eleazar]

MPG, looks, engine

MPG, in the underpowered 2WD version no one wants to buy.

[recxjake]

Good. Don't suppose you have any details on it?


the interior on the silverado is supposed to be a lot like the tahoe... some changes, but this is pretty close...

[recxjake]

MPG, in the underpowered 2WD version no one wants to buy.

nah... its around a 4 mpg increase across the board

[Donger]

yes

Cool. So GM's including a throttle, steering wheel and tranny at no extra cost?

[recxjake]

Cool. So GM's including a throttle, steering wheel and tranny at no extra cost?

haha, yup

[Donger]

the interior on the silverado is supposed to be a lot like the tahoe... some changes, but this is pretty close...

That looks decidedly Germanic.

[PastorMikH]

Biggest piece of crap I ever owned was a Nissian, so in my case I'll never own another Japanese car again.

I have over 100,000 on my F-150 and over 130,000 on my Merc, only thing I've done to either is routine maintenances.



Just curious, what model did you own?


Dad works on them and there are models he swears by and models he wouldn't want if they were given to him. For example, the new Quest van is one that he is very down on.

[redbrian]

Just curious, what model did you own?


Dad works on them and there are models he swears by and models he wouldn't want if they were given to him. For example, the new Quest van is one that he is very down on.

It was the little pickup truck, and I mean little, hell I could lock the passenger side door from the drivers seat without leaning too far over.

The thing was underpowered, couldn't haul anything and the gearbox was trash.

Had it in and out of the shop the whole time I had it, finally a guy in a big GM ran a light and totaled the thing out (barley scratched the GM).

Went back to a full size truck after that and have been very happy with my 2000 F-150 (except the gas is a little steep, but I can at least haul material and pull a boat out of the water with it).

[Chief Faithful]

If GM could make an economy car that was comfortable and not a piece of crap I would buy. I'm sure I'm not alone on this matter, which is why I suspect Honda does so well in America.

[recxjake]

If GM could make an economy car that was comfortable and not a piece of crap I would buy. I'm sure I'm not alone on this matter, which is why I suspect Honda does so well in America.

Saturn has teamed up with Opel, GM's Europrean brand...

They are bringing this over next year......

http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/astra/launch/microsite/main_broadband.html

other than that entry market is weak....

Chevy Cobalt
Pontiac G5 out this fall
Chevy Aveo

[recxjake]

It was the little pickup truck, and I mean little, hell I could lock the passenger side door from the drivers seat without leaning too far over.

The thing was underpowered, couldn't haul anything and the gearbox was trash.

Had it in and out of the shop the whole time I had it, finally a guy in a big GM ran a light and totaled the thing out (barley scratched the GM).

Went back to a full size truck after that and have been very happy with my 2000 F-150 (except the gas is a little steep, but I can at least haul material and pull a boat out of the water with it).

I'm glad you like the f-150... those are great trucks

[morphius]

It was the little pickup truck, and I mean little, hell I could lock the passenger side door from the drivers seat without leaning too far over.

The thing was underpowered, couldn't haul anything and the gearbox was trash.

Had it in and out of the shop the whole time I had it, finally a guy in a big GM ran a light and totaled the thing out (barley scratched the GM).

Went back to a full size truck after that and have been very happy with my 2000 F-150 (except the gas is a little steep, but I can at least haul material and pull a boat out of the water with it).
You want to see underpowered, take a "joy" ride in my Ranger.

If you buy a small truck thinking you are getting a great hauling machine, I really don't know what to tell you.

[htismaqe]

They are/were great to deal with, but when I tried about 5 years ago, they were still a few $000 too high for me. I did a ton of homework before shopping so my expectations were not unrealistic (I ended up buying a used acura from a private owner).

I don't get where everybody says Toyota is higher priced.

I did a ton of comparison shopping when I bought mine because I was specifically trading in my Jeep for MPG, I had no particular brand of car in mind.

For me when I shopped, this is what I found. I compared 4-cylinder cars with automatic transmissions (all of them were 1.8L):

Corolla = $15,995k = 40MPG = cruise, power locks, power windows
Accord = $15,195k = 38MPG = no cruise, no power locks or windows
Sentra = $14,995 = 35MPG = no cruise, power locks and windows

I looked also at the Neon, but none of the US cars even came close on the gas mileage I was looking for. And FWIW, I'm getting just about 42MPG out of my Corolla - with an automatic transmission.

[recxjake]

I don't get where everybody says Toyota is higher priced.

I did a ton of comparison shopping when I bought mine because I was specifically trading in my Jeep for MPG, I had no particular brand of car in mind.

For me when I shopped, this is what I found. I compared 4-cylinder cars with automatic transmissions (all of them were 1.8L):

Corolla = $15,995k = 40MPG = cruise, power locks, power windows
Accord = $15,195k = 38MPG = no cruise, no power locks or windows
Sentra = $14,995 = 35MPG = no cruise, power locks and windows

I looked also at the Neon, but none of the US cars even came close on the gas mileage I was looking for. And FWIW, I'm getting just about 42MPG out of my Corolla - with an automatic transmission.

Chevy Cobalt.... 12,990.... 34 mpg

Saturn Ion....... 13,400..... 35 mpg

Chevy Aveo...... 9,840.......35 MPG

[Tactical Funky]

I'll keep buying from Toyota if the prices don't get too high. My '99 Tacoma 4x4 was the most durable, reliable vehicle I've ever driven, and I sold it with over 200k miles and no issues whatsoever - so the resale value was worth the cost.

[morphius]

Chevy Cobalt.... 12,990.... 34 mpg

Saturn Ion....... 13,400..... 35 mpg

Chevy Aveo...... 9,840.......35 MPG
15,790 for the Cobalt with cruise
14,890 for the Ion with cruise
13,390 for the Aveo with cruise

and all get 5mpg less.

[morphius]

I don't get where everybody says Toyota is higher priced.

I did a ton of comparison shopping when I bought mine because I was specifically trading in my Jeep for MPG, I had no particular brand of car in mind.

For me when I shopped, this is what I found. I compared 4-cylinder cars with automatic transmissions (all of them were 1.8L):

Corolla = $15,995k = 40MPG = cruise, power locks, power windows
Accord = $15,195k = 38MPG = no cruise, no power locks or windows
Sentra = $14,995 = 35MPG = no cruise, power locks and windows

I looked also at the Neon, but none of the US cars even came close on the gas mileage I was looking for. And FWIW, I'm getting just about 42MPG out of my Corolla - with an automatic transmission.
I really am not sure where it is coming from either, and many of the dealers are willing to do deals at invoice with no hassle, at least in KC.

[recxjake]

15,790 for the Cobalt with cruise
14,890 for the Ion with cruise
13,390 for the Aveo with cruise

and all get 5mpg less.

www.gmbuypower.com goes along w/ my numbers

[recxjake]

These are facts about our domestic auto industry:

GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler account for 4% of the U.S. GDP, and 11% of all manufacturing shipments.

We collectively employ 400,000 people — that’s nine out of 10 American autoworkers — and affect 7 million jobs in auto and related industries.

We provide healthcare for 2 million Americans, and pension benefits for 800,000 retirees.

We buy 80% of the auto parts sold in the United States.

And we’ve made 85% of the total investment in the U.S. auto industry since 1980.

So remember those facts the next time somebody says it doesn’t matter what country’s supplies the cars and trucks we buy.

[Chiefs Express]

These are facts about our domestic auto industry:

GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler account for 4% of the U.S. GDP, and 11% of all manufacturing shipments.

We collectively employ 400,000 people — that’s nine out of 10 American autoworkers — and affect 7 million jobs in auto and related industries.

We provide healthcare for 2 million Americans, and pension benefits for 800,000 retirees.

We buy 80% of the auto parts sold in the United States.

And we’ve made 85% of the total investment in the U.S. auto industry since 1980.

So remember those facts the next time somebody says it doesn’t matter what country’s supplies the cars and trucks we buy.

I question some of the numbers, but particularily I question the 80% of auto parts sold in the U.S. Where are those parts manufactured? You might be surprised (not really) to hear that a majority of components in American cars are produced elsewhere. The cars are assembled in America but by-in-large are not fully made in America.

All of the we comments above seem to be bragging about U.S. Auto manufacturers from U.S. Auto manufacturers. I think there might be some problem with their objectivity and credibility in this case.

[Chiefs Express]

I don't believe that Toyota really cares if all of the big 3 bite the big one. They are in a position to buy the facilities and modernize them and produce more Toyota's in the U.S. than they currently do.

I've had several Toyota's. My '87 Camry got almost 300,000 before it was totaled by a lady that couldn't stop quickly enough. My '91 Camry had 155,000 miles on it when Bambi decided to come through the winshield one Thanksgiving. I traded a '98 Corolla for a 2002 Prius, the Corolla had about 145,000 on it, bought it used. So now we have a 2000 Camry, a 2002 Prius and a '70 Chevelle. 2000 gets 30-34 mpg, the 2002 gets 42-50 mpg and the Chevelle gets 12-14 mpg. the Chevelle sits in the garage quite a bit.

[morphius]

www.gmbuypower.com goes along w/ my numbers
www.chevrolet.com and www.saturn.com is where I got my numbers. You gave the base model, I gave the comparable model to the Toyota Corrolla with Cruise.

[Skip Towne]

I question some of the numbers, but particularily I question the 80% of auto parts sold in the U.S. Where are those parts manufactured? You might be surprised (not really) to hear that a majority of components in American cars are produced elsewhere. The cars are assembled in America but by-in-large are not fully made in America.

All of the we comments above seem to be bragging about U.S. Auto manufacturers from U.S. Auto manufacturers. I think there might be some problem with their objectivity and credibility in this case.
By-and-large, not by-in-large. You're from Neodesha aren't you?

[recxjake]

I question some of the numbers, but particularily I question the 80% of auto parts sold in the U.S. Where are those parts manufactured? You might be surprised (not really) to hear that a majority of components in American cars are produced elsewhere. The cars are assembled in America but by-in-large are not fully made in America.

All of the we comments above seem to be bragging about U.S. Auto manufacturers from U.S. Auto manufacturers. I think there might be some problem with their objectivity and credibility in this case.


Bob Lutz from GM said that in an interview on Wednesday

[recxjake]

I don't believe that Toyota really cares if all of the big 3 bite the big one. They are in a position to buy the facilities and modernize them and produce more Toyota's in the U.S. than they currently do.

I've had several Toyota's. My '87 Camry got almost 300,000 before it was totaled by a lady that couldn't stop quickly enough. My '91 Camry had 155,000 miles on it when Bambi decided to come through the winshield one Thanksgiving. I traded a '98 Corolla for a 2002 Prius, the Corolla had about 145,000 on it, bought it used. So now we have a 2000 Camry, a 2002 Prius and a '70 Chevelle. 2000 gets 30-34 mpg, the 2002 gets 42-50 mpg and the Chevelle gets 12-14 mpg. the Chevelle sits in the garage quite a bit.


I heard the Prius is having all sorts of issues and terrible resale value.... Honda is slashing production of their hybird.... people have finally figured out its stupid to pay so much more for so little savings.

[recxjake]

Re-Igniting the Passion
The following is a speech by Bob Lutz gave yesterday to the Swiss American Chamber of Commerce in New York. It's caused quite a stir, and we thought you'd be interested in it.

Thank you, Ambassador Loretan, and good afternoon, everyone.

At GM, we’re positioning ourselves to compete in this global industry by leveraging our vast global resources.

We have streamlined our product development process, and aligned our planning, design, engineering and manufacturing capabilities under global auspices. It’s not possible any longer to operate as GM once did, as four regional and semi-autonomous auto companies.

Now all of our regions will be operating as one company going forward. And that will show in our improved product lineup. In fact, the process has already begun… the products we’ve recently introduced, and the ones to come in the short-term, are the best we’ve ever introduced. But it’s hard to get people to realize that.

Why? Let me give you a few examples of what some people are saying about us. You may have heard of this first guy:

President George W. Bush: “[The U.S. auto industry] needs to develop a product that’s relevant… GM is going to have to learn to compete.”
Another senior administration official told The Wall Street Journal: “The American auto industry needs to focus on producing cars that Americans want to buy.”

Automotive analyst Maryann Keller: “GM has forgotten how to make cars that people want to buy.”

Business Week’s David Kiley: “[GM] is not making very many cars that people want to buy.”


Are you starting to see why sometimes we think there’s a herd mentality out there? Here are some more…

The Wall Street Journal’s Lee Hawkins: “GM is having a hard time persuading Americans to buy its cars.”
Automotive analyst David Healy: "GM's problem is that … its products are boring."

St. Louis Post-Dispatch editorial: "Its real problem is that people aren't buying GM cars... To be blunt, GM cars are boring."

Fortune reporter Carol Loomis: “In product design, [GM] lost the magic long ago.”

Forbes Magazine senior editor Neil Weinberg: "[GM’s] biggest problem is product.”

The Wall Street Journal’s Paul Ingrassia: “Robert Lutz has been surprisingly ineffective at GM, as if mired down like a raisin stuck in oatmeal.”


I’m especially fond of that last metaphor — that was a new one for me. I didn’t even know raisins got stuck in oatmeal; I always thought they sort of floated there proudly, going about their business.

Anyway, well, now let’s look at some of our awful, boring products and see just how unpopular they are:

Chevrolet HHR
We’ve raised our forecasts twice for this model, from about 60,000 initially to now about 132,000 annually.
March was its best retail month since launch, with very little spent on customer incentives.
California, Texas and Florida are the top three retail states since launch. Those are not traditionally strong markets for GM cars.
So far in 2006, HHR has outsold the Chrysler Pacifica, Nissan Murano, Dodge Durango, and Honda Element.
Our dealers are requesting 200% of our ability to supply…
Chevrolet Impala


We are building 250,000 of these a year, and demand is running about 300,000.

March was its best sales month yet. It overtook the Nissan Altima as the third-best selling car in America, behind Camry and Accord.

Buick Lucerne

March was its best sales month since its launch last year, and 91% of sales were retail, meaning non-fleet, non-rental companies.

Lucerne has the second-lowest turn rate in the segment, 25 days, trailing the Toyota Avalon by just one day.

Chevrolet Corvette

The world’s great affordable sports car, Corvette is sold out.

Pontiac Solstice

Solstice? Sold out. Best turn rate of any vehicle in its segment.

Saturn Sky

“All available production for 2006 is accounted for.” In other words, sold out.

Before I go on, I’d like to show you the Sky we introduced at the New York auto show just this morning, and the other Saturns we showed:


Saturn Sky Red Line

Saturn Aura

Saturn Outlook

Saturn PreVue


So we have big plans for Saturn, as we do for all of our brands. But at the moment, perhaps what we’re most proud of is our new fullsize sport utilities. Let’s look at what the “experts” had to say before they came out earlier this year:


University of Maryland business professor Peter Morici: "They're married to large vehicles and big engines, and consumers just aren't buying them right now… SUV sales are going to continue to lag and GM is almost in denial on that issue."
Analyst David Healy: "GM is … betting the ranch that they can sell SUVs in an environment of $2.50-a-gallon gasoline, but the big SUV segment will continue to shrink, and GM is going to have its work cut out for it."

Autobytel analyst Brian Chee: “Everybody else is coming out with subcompacts, crossovers and smaller cars while GM is alone in the woods when it comes to these big SUVs.”


By the way, it’s worth pointing out that we are most certainly not alone in the woods; Chrysler and Ford are coming out with new fullsize SUVs, and, would you believe it, Toyota is readying a new line of fullsize trucks, too. So, apparently, not everyone thinks this segment is dying out.

It makes you wonder just how these experts get to be experts!

Well, we went ahead and launched our new SUVs anyway. Let’s see how they’re doing:

Year-to-date GM share of the large utility segment is 67.5%, up 8.6 pts from year ago
Non-GM Source of Sales of ’07 models: Tahoe (29.8%), Yukon (27.8%), and Escalade (26.4%)
Average transaction price increase versus last year’s models: Tahoe (+$6.5k), Yukon (+$6.7k), and Escalade (+$10k)
So, we’re selling more of them, for more money. The pundits will say that’s just because they’re brand new, but we’ll see, because we think these are the best SUVs that have ever lived. Take a look at them:

Chevrolet Tahoe
March retail sales were up 35% from February, and it’s doing great on the West Coast.
Total ’07 model year sales are the highest in the segment
In March, it had a turn rate of just 19 days, compared to 80 days for the Ford Expedition and 41 for the Toyota Sequoia
GMC Yukon
March Yukon sales were up 109% from February, and it had a turn rate of just 16 days, on average.
Cadillac Escalade
March sales were up 73% from February. Its total sales lead the Lincoln Navigator by 300 units, and it has outsold the Infiniti QX56, Range Rover and Lexus LX 470 combined.
Vehicles turned in an average of 7 days in March. That means the inventory is turning four times a month.
Now, all of this is amazing to me. We don’t make any cars or trucks that anybody wants to buy… but we sure do sell a lot of them. Either we are holding a lot of customers at gunpoint in our dealerships and forcing them into our vehicles, or the so-called experts are absolutely blind to what is happening in the marketplace.

It’s as if the folks working the op/ed and business pages don’t even read the product reviews anymore. Because if they did, they’d see that our cars and trucks are getting largely rave reviews.

Anita Lienert in The Detroit News: “The redesigned Escalade stands out as the sexiest full-size SUV on the market, an awesome Detroit offering that hits a bull's-eye in such important areas as horsepower and cabin design.”
Paul Eisenstein, The Car Connection.com: “The Escalade is about as good as a full-size SUV gets.”


And how bout this one?

Joe Langley, CSM Automotive analyst: “GM’s redesigned full-size SUVs will prove the segment is alive and well despite unexpected events that try to wreck their place in the market. The segment is far from dead. I recommend taking any of them for a drive, and you’ll be as surprised as I was.”
I make that same recommendation to all of you, on the SUVs or any of our new vehicles. They’re really a big step forward for GM.

All we have to do now is make people aware of it. We have to get word out that we’ve improved, and the marketplace bears us out.

For the first quarter of this year, our launch vehicles — that is, our newest cars and trucks —accounted for 30 percent of our sales. That’s more than double where we were a couple of years ago.

We expect that recently launched vehicles will account for 29 percent of our U.S. sales volume this year, and as much as 33 percent next year. That’s up from 22 percent in 2005.

And I should point out that despite our financial difficulties, we backed up our commitment to great products by raising our capital spending in 2005, and we’ll increase it again in 2006 to $8.7 billion, the bulk of it on developing new cars and trucks.

It’s full speed ahead for us.

Perhaps you have heard the economic parable about the old man who sold hot dogs on the street corner. He was hard of hearing so he had no radio. He had trouble with his eyes, so he read no newspapers. But he sold good hot dogs.

He sold so many that he increased his meat and bun orders. He bought a bigger stove to take care of his booming business. Business was so good he brought his son home from college early to help him out. And his son said:

"Father, haven't you been listening to the radios or reading the newspapers? The economic situation is terrible. All of our jobs are going away — we’re headed for depression. This is no time to be spending like this."

The father thought to himself, "Well, my son's been to college, he reads the papers and he listens to the radio, so he ought to know."

So the father cut down his meat and bun orders, took down his signs, and his hot dog sales plummeted almost overnight.

The father said to the boy, "You're right, son, we certainly are in the middle of a great depression."

Well, we don’t care what the newspapers, or the radio, or our kids tell us. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; we’re not going to listen to the naysayers — we’re going to listen to our customers.

Finally, let me just say that perhaps the title of my remarks today was misleading…. We said “Americans and Automobiles: Re-igniting the Passion.”

But what we really mean is… Americans and American automobiles… and particularly, General Motors automobiles.

People who think it doesn’t matter who owns our auto industry are flat wrong. They think it doesn’t matter because the Japanese and Germans and Koreans are “producing” in the states now. But they’re not “producing”— they’re “assembling.” The parts are mostly brought from overseas, and the profits for reinvestment don’t stay in the U.S.

These are facts about our domestic auto industry:


GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler account for 4% of the U.S. GDP, and 11% of all manufacturing shipments.

We collectively employ 400,000 people — that’s nine out of 10 American autoworkers — and affect 7 million jobs in auto and related industries.

We provide healthcare for 2 million Americans, and pension benefits for 800,000 retirees.

We buy 80% of the auto parts sold in the United States.

And we’ve made 85% of the total investment in the U.S. auto industry since 1980.

So remember those facts the next time somebody says it doesn’t matter what country’s supplies the cars and trucks we buy.

If you’ll indulge me, I’d like to read you a letter from someone who understands this. It was written by Congressman John Dingell of Michigan, to the president, in response to his comments on the U.S. auto industry. Congressman Dingell writes:

“The American auto industry is not being hurt, as the Administration suggests, because of the vehicles it is producing. Contrary to the statements of your chief economic adviser, American manufacturers lead the industry in fuel economy in nearly every segment. Our automakers face healthcare and pension costs which foreign automakers do not.
“These problems are only compounded by the Administration’s failure to prosecute unfair trade practices by our competitors, counteract currency manipulation by Japan and China, and relieve the crushing burden of healthcare costs.

“Mr. President, we owe the auto industry a debt of gratitude for its contributions to this country and I am troubled by… the Administration’s complete disregard for this escalating crisis. The industry is anxious to restore its competitive edge, but they cannot do it alone.”



He’s right. We are not looking for any handouts. We just want a level playing field, and a chance to compete. We want people to consider our products again, because they deserve consideration.

Our quality numbers are way up from where they were in the past. Our designs are more compelling, more dynamic.

I am intensely and unapologetically proud of what we’re doing at GM, and also of what all of the so-called Big Three are doing these days. And I’m allowed to be: I’ve worked for all of ‘em.

GM has the broadest product lineup of any manufacturer … we have more models that get 30 miles per gallon or better on the highway than anyone else … we have OnStar, the industry’s leading safety and security service … we have the best large SUVs on the planet … and we have a host of great new cars and trucks worthy of your consideration.

Once we get that consideration… once we raise people’s awareness… once we get back on their radar screens, we will put them in the kind of cars and trucks that inspire passion.

Don’t take my word for it. Go drive one of our vehicles — I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at what we have out there now, and what we bring out in the very near future. And I think you’ll be as proud of our products as I am, just like we’re all proud of our Swiss Roots.

But before you head out to our dealerships, I’d be glad to take some of your questions.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2006/04/reigniting_the.html#more

[htismaqe]

Chevy Cobalt.... 12,990.... 34 mpg

Saturn Ion....... 13,400..... 35 mpg

Chevy Aveo...... 9,840.......35 MPG

I have a friend that works at the local dealership here -- they do both GM and Chrysler. I bought both my Jeep and my Town and Country from him.

I asked him to give me all the cars they had that fit my criteria -- over 35MPG, cruise, under $16k. He said that's the Dodge Neon. He didn't have a single GM on the lot that got greater than 35MPG.

I drive 90 miles per day commuting. The different between 35MPG and 40MPG is significent when gas is more than $2.50 per gallon.

[morphius]

I heard the Prius is having all sorts of issues and terrible resale value.... Honda is slashing production of their hybird.... people have finally figured out its stupid to pay so much more for so little savings.
But yet you keep pimping that the Chevy trucks will be coming out with a hybrid version.

At least try to keep your sales pitches in line...

[burt]

I heard the Prius is having all sorts of issues and terrible resale value.... Honda is slashing production of their hybird.... people have finally figured out its stupid to pay so much more for so little savings.

You don't seem to have much objectivity in this statement. I have seen neither problems nor low resale with the Prius. BTW, "I've heard" doesn't carry much weight either.

I will say, that mathmatically, you'd have to own a Prius for 6 to 8 years to recoup the savings that a 35 mpg Cobalt would have over the Prius. And the Cobalt IS a very reliable vehicle. Trade it in before that and you will have lost money vs. purchasing a Cobalt. That IS with gas savings taken in mind.

God forbid the Prius' rechargable batteries have a problem. $8000.00 to replace when I last checked.....but that was a few years ago.

[Chiefs Express]

By-and-large, not by-in-large. You're from Neodesha aren't you?
No. I just live here and your hometown mentality seems to be rubbing off.

BTW, you make up your venacular and I'll make up mine.

[Chiefs Express]

Bob Lutz from GM said that in an interview on Wednesday

Ask Bob, next time you see him, what the percentage of components for American made cars would be manufactured inside the U.S.

[Kerberos]

Corolla = $15,995k = 40MPG = cruise, power locks, power windows
And FWIW, I'm getting just about 42MPG out of my Corolla :BS:- with an automatic transmission.


:BS:

So what you are trying to tell us and have us take as GHT(Gods Honest TRUTH) is that you are getting BETTER GAS MILAGE than the car was rated at?

:BS: :BS: :BS: :BS:

Sorry That dog WON'T HUNT.

I have heard all kinds of people say all kinds of :BS: and the one that gets me every time are those that say they are getting BETTER gas milage than the car was rated at.

Me, My Dad, My Grandpa (moms side) Some of My BEST friends have all driven new vehicles and not ONE of us has EVER gotten any gas mileage that is even closer than 2-5MPG UNDER the "RATED" gase milage that was on the sticker. FWIW I checked it on my new 06 Trailblazer and rating was at 22 or 23 one or the other and I got 18.75MPG all highway driving at 65-70MPH no noticable winds front or rear. Once broke in it may increase by 1 or 1andahalf MPG tops that my past experience has shown.

I have challenged a few different people that have made that boast in my presense and offered to buy the gas to PROVE to me that it got thier claims.

Boy how the excuses can fly at a drop of a :BS: flag coming up to said claims. (Don't have time, the wind is too high it won't be good day, etc etc etc.)

Hell maybe you are getting better than the RATED MPG on the sticker but my experience has led me to believe that is :BS:

But hey that is just my educated opinion ;)



.

[recxjake]

But yet you keep pimping that the Chevy trucks will be coming out with a hybrid version.

At least try to keep your sales pitches in line...


ahh Chevy had hybrid trucks out since 2002 i believe....

hybrids are just not worth it

[morphius]

ahh Chevy had hybrid trucks out since 2002 i believe....

hybrids are just not worth it
They are too expensive unless you do A LOT of driving. Of course if they would keep up with some of what the home modders have done they might actually be cost effective.

[Pitt Gorilla]

“The American auto industry is not being hurt, as the Administration suggests, because of the vehicles it is producing. Contrary to the statements of your chief economic adviser, American manufacturers lead the industry in fuel economy in nearly every segment. Our automakers face healthcare and pension costs which foreign automakers do not.
“These problems are only compounded by the Administration’s failure to prosecute unfair trade practices by our competitors, counteract currency manipulation by Japan and China, and relieve the crushing burden of healthcare costs.

“Mr. President, we owe the auto industry a debt of gratitude for its contributions to this country and I am troubled by… the Administration’s complete disregard for this escalating crisis. The industry is anxious to restore its competitive edge, but they cannot do it alone.”



He’s right. We are not looking for any handouts. We just want a level playing field, and a chance to compete. We want people to consider our products again, because they deserve consideration. I'm getting tired of the "healthcare and pension" complaint. Do something about it and stop whining. The guy says they are not looking for a handout, and yet that is exactly how the quote reads.