Teicher: Chiefs have hope for future at QB

[tk13]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14532692.htm

Printers, Croyle provide hope for future at QB
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Maybe it’s an exaggeration to proclaim that Trent Green’s successor will be on display Friday when the Chiefs begin a three-day rookie camp.

But the Chiefs can’t be blamed for thinking that. After going more than a decade without a young quarterback who possessed even a modestly bright future, they suddenly have two.

So the race begins this weekend between former CFL star Casey Printers, who turns 25 next week, and third-round draft pick Brodie Croyle of Alabama, who is 23.

The two have wildly differing styles. Printers is an athlete who made his way as much with his feet as his arm while in Canada. Croyle has more of the traditional skills.

The Chiefs are hopeful that one — and maybe both — can, given time, get the job done.

“We’re going to run our offense,” Chiefs coach Herm Edwards said. “We feel these two guys have the ability to do that. Both of these guys have the ability when the play breaks down. (Croyle) has the ability to slide. He has great feet in the pocket. He has great awareness with the ball in his hand when he’s moving in the pocket. Casey’s the same thing. He can run and has the ability to slide in the pocket and make plays.

“That’s what you want out of a quarterback. When the play breaks down and (things aren’t) on time, what do they do with the ball? Both of these kids have the ability to make a play when the play is broken down.”

If that were the only criteria, the Chiefs would go with Printers. Pop in a DVD from his time with the CFL’s British Columbia Lions and you won’t have to wait long for a highlight of Printers deftly escaping from one mess or another to either run or pass for a big play.

“The thing that’s amazing about Casey is his ability to make something out of nothing,” said Wally Buono, British Columbia’s coach and general manager. “His downfield vision while running around is unbelievable. That’s not something you can coach. You either have that ability or you don’t.

“Many times he could have run the ball and picked up 10, 15, 20 yards. But instead he would see our receiver with a step on the defender and he would lay the ball in there for an even bigger play.”

Printers’ story is similar to that of Kurt Warner, who in a short time went from grocery store stocker to Super Bowl winning quarterback with the Rams. Printers was buried on the Lions’ bench in 2004 when injuries to other quarterbacks forced him into the lineup.

Printers showed the Lions skills in games that they hadn’t seen from him in practice. He threw for 35 touchdowns and more than 5,000 yards, ran for almost 500 more and was chosen the CFL’s most outstanding player.

That’s a long way from his days at TCU, where he played three seasons and was an option quarterback, and Florida A&M, where he played an undistinguished senior year.

But he flourished on the longer, wider CFL field.

“It’s a different game up here,” said British Columbia president Bob Ackles, a former NFL scout for several teams. “It’s such a wide-open game. For a quarterback like Casey, it was an ideal situation. We’ve got the big field, and he was able to get outside because he has the foot speed.”

That’s not to say Printers can’t be successful on a smaller NFL field, where enough mobility can get a quarterback out of trouble, but too much can put him on the injured list. With the Chiefs, he will have to make his living out of the pocket.

“There were games where he stood in the pocket and threw the football,” Buono said. “There were other games where he made his athleticism a big part of what he did. Obviously, his athleticism is his strength. But he can stay in the pocket, read the defense and make the good throw.”

Chiefs quarterback coach Terry Shea said the closest thing to Printers in the NFL in terms of style of play is Tennessee’s Steve McNair.

“Contrary to what a lot of people think about Casey, he doesn’t move to run,” Shea said. “He moves to throw. He’s got great balance, so he’s a tough guy to sack. But he can run and move the sticks with his feet.”

Printers has a strong arm, but he has problems with accuracy on shorter routes and touch passes. His temperament also raises issues.

“He’s excitable, emotional, and he can pick up the entire team that way,” Buono said. “He’s almost too emotional. You can’t get too up or too down when you’re the quarterback. Casey is very excitable. That’s his personality. We had to discuss not showing his disappointment. That affects not only himself but his teammates, too. I don’t know that it’s something he’s going to be able to control all the time.”

Printers might have the bigger upside, but also the bigger risk. That could explain why the Chiefs spent a third-round pick on Croyle.

He might be a safer choice, but he’s hardly a sure thing. Croyle’s durability is a concern after he missed part of his sophomore season because of a shoulder injury and most of his junior year because of torn knee ligaments.

At 6-feet-2 and 206 pounds, he also doesn’t have classic quarterback size. Otherwise, Croyle appears to have a lot of the necessary tools.

“He had the best feet of all the quarterbacks in the draft this year,” Shea said. “Vince Young has tremendous running skills, but this guy has great feet, as good as you can ask for. He has what we call quiet feet. He’s so efficient, like a ballerina. He can redirect his feet quickly in order to make his progressions.”

Croyle, who threw 190 straight passes without an interception last season, has better accuracy and touch than Printers. Croyle’s arm might not be as strong, but he appears able to make all of the necessary throws.

At Alabama, Croyle often saved his best for crucial situations. He led the Crimson Tide on three winning scoring drives in the final moments last season.

“I know our guys believed in him,” Alabama offensive coordinator Dave Rader said. “They wanted him to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game.”

The question now is whether the Chiefs will eventually want that.

“I’m just a guy that’s going to make plays for you, and hopefully a guy that they put ‘winner’ next to,” Croyle said. “If you’re a quarterback, that’s what you want. There are a ton of guys that can throw, there are a ton of guys that can run. But the intangibles you bring to the table really separate the good quarterbacks from the great ones.”

[Hammock Parties]

At 6-feet-2 and 206 pounds, he also doesn’t have classic quarterback size. Otherwise, Croyle appears to have a lot of the necessary tools.

“He had the best feet of all the quarterbacks in the draft this year,” Shea said. “Vince Young has tremendous running skills, but this guy has great feet, as good as you can ask for. He has what we call quiet feet. He’s so efficient, like a ballerina. He can redirect his feet quickly in order to make his progressions.”

Croyle, who threw 190 straight passes without an interception last season, has better accuracy and touch than Printers. Croyle’s arm might not be as strong, but he appears able to make all of the necessary throws.

At Alabama, Croyle often saved his best for crucial situations. He led the Crimson Tide on three winning scoring drives in the final moments last season.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41255000/jpg/_41255824_joe203.jpg

[T-post Tom]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41255000/jpg/_41255824_joe203.jpg

And he's all out of bubble gum.

[Spicy McHaggis]

I have a really good feeling about Croyle. Man, I wonder what it will be like if we actually develop a quarterback? If either of these guys can cut it, I know what my next jersey is going to be.

[chefsos]

Putting the cart waaay before the horse with those Croyle/Montana comparisons there, GC.

However, having said that, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I said to myself, "Sounds like Joe", as I read each of the points that you quoted.

[DenverChief]

I like em both I hope that they can both make the team and one of em uproot Huard as our Backup..

[el borracho]

And somewhere James Kilian weeps...

[StcChief]

I would like them to unseat Huard. Don't see that happening the Chiefs will keep the NFL vet. Just in case.

[Cormac]

I don't see these guys being comparable. IMO Croyle has only one problem - injuries. That aside, he has all the tools to be a good NFL QB; smarts, accuracy, leadership, experience etc. Printers is an athlete who couldn't distinguish himself in 2 college programs, or in the CFL until he was forced into the lineup. The thought of a guy on the run, trying to make plays down the field when he is escaping a rush makes me criiinge. Especially when his name is Casey Printers.

[jspchief]

The thought of a guy on the run, trying to make plays down the field when he is escaping a rush makes me criiinge. Especially when his name is Casey Printers.You know what scares me? When our old O-line retires in a few years, and we're stuck with guys that aren't as good, Printers might be able to play better then Croyle in that situation. If we end up not being able to protect the QB, a guy like Printers will be better suited in the short term.

I hate to think that he would beat out Croyle based on his ability to survive behind a bad O-line.

[Archie Bunker]

Can't wait to see Croyle and Printers in the preseason. I just don't see the Chiefs going into the season without a vet backup so Huard is probably safe. Unless the Chiefs keep 4 Qbs I see no way Printers makes the team which is too bad.

[jspchief]

Can't wait to see Croyle and Printers in the preseason. I just don't see the Chiefs going into the season without a vet backup so Huard is probably safe. Unless the Chiefs keep 4 Qbs I see no way Printers makes the team which is too bad.It's hard to imagine carrying 4 QBs, but I also wonder how the Chiefs would feel about cutting loose potential talent like Printers.

You know Croyle is safe because of the pick we spent on him.

I'd almost rather keep Printers and Croyle and cut Huard. If Green goes down, it's not like Huard is going to take us anywhere anyways. Take your chance with a rookie and an abbreviated playbook. At the very worst you get your QB prospect some playing time, and you get a nice draft pick next year out of the losses that come with his learning curve.

[jidar]

Who is going to do best in the league? My moneys on Croyle. I still see the traditional pocket passer QBs as the ones getting it done. Manning, Brady, Trent. hopefully in the future, Croyle

[Archie Bunker]

I'd almost rather keep Printers and Croyle and cut Huard. If Green goes down, it's not like Huard is going to take us anywhere anyways. Take your chance with a rookie and an abbreviated playbook. At the very worst you get your QB prospect some playing time, and you get a nice draft pick next year out of the losses that come with his learning curve.

I agree. Huard offers almost nothing in the short or long term. If Green goes down roll the dice with Croyle or Printers, I would hate to lose one of them just to keep a dime a dozen vet like Huard.

[ExtremeChief]

I'd almost rather keep Printers and Croyle and cut Huard. If Green goes down, it's not like Huard is going to take us anywhere anyways. Take your chance with a rookie and an abbreviated playbook. At the very worst you get your QB prospect some playing time, and you get a nice draft pick next year out of the losses that come with his learning curve.

I would agree. A rookie QB would also have the advantage of Larry Johnson in the backfield and Tony G for short routes. Maybe a rookie wouldn't struggle quite as much in KC as other places. I'd love for them to keep Printers and Croyle, Huard hasn't shown anything other than lack of talent during his abbreviated time in KC.

[jAZ]

I would hate to lose one of them just to keep a dime a dozen vet like Huard.
Experience with our offense raises his value to a buck a dozen.

[ct]

Unless Printers really flames out in the off-season, I think we'll keep he and Croyle, cutting Huard. There's a really good chance nobody picks him up, and if Trent were to go down, we could sign him back to carry 3 QBs, if they don't feel either of the young guys are ready.

[FAX]

Head : Keep Huard.
Heart : Keep Printers & Croyle.
Bladder : Keep pee.

FAX

[KChiefs1]

I’ve long held a theory that each position on the football field has one dominant facet of their character or their personality that will determine how great of a player they’re going to be. Maybe I’m making the mistake of creating generalizations or stereotypes, but here’s what I think is the most important “intangible” for a few key positions;

QB – Poise. Seems obvious, but then Poise really isn’t something that can be taught or learned. For example, Dan Marino was probably the best passer to ever play the game, but he had a tendency to force throws and try to make something out of nothing. Dan Marino has incredible stats, but never won a Super Bowl. Joe Montana, on the other hand, was not only an amazingly talented QB, he also had a tremendous amount of Poise. This is why he was able to engineer so many last-minute comebacks in college and in the NFL, because he never EVER panicked.

[jidar]

I’ve long held a theory that each position on the football field has one dominant facet of their character or their personality that will determine how great of a player they’re going to be. Maybe I’m making the mistake of creating generalizations or stereotypes, but here’s what I think is the most important “intangible” for a few key positions;

QB – Poise. Seems obvious, but then Poise really isn’t something that can be taught or learned. For example, Dan Marino was probably the best passer to ever play the game, but he had a tendency to force throws and try to make something out of nothing. Dan Marino has incredible stats, but never won a Super Bowl. Joe Montana, on the other hand, was not only an amazingly talented QB, he also had a tremendous amount of Poise. This is why he was able to engineer so many last-minute comebacks in college and in the NFL, because he never EVER panicked.


Interesting, probably not far off from the truth.

That in mind, which of these guys has the most poise? Croyle is known for throwing the ball away or even taking a Sack instead of making a potentially game costing mistake. I'm not so sure on Printers.

[Hammock Parties]

Interesting, probably not far off from the truth.

That in mind, which of these guys has the most poise? Croyle is known for throwing the ball away or even taking a Sack instead of making a potentially game costing mistake. I'm not so sure on Printers.

Printers got by solely on athletic ability in the CFL. I'm pretty sure he has horrid mechanics. Consider him our Vince Young.

We'll see how he adjusts to playing on a smaller field in a faster game.

[ct]

Considering the poise character trait, then Printers is definitely #4.

Good comment KChiefs1! Yes it is a generalization, and there's much truth to it. But like every generalization, it's not the end all of all.

[KChiefs1]

The most poise? Here's an excerpt from an article about this years Cotton Bowl game:


Offensive MVP Brodie Croyle, playing in his first and final bowl game, drove Alabama 58 yards in 10 plays to set up the winning kick.Croyle finished the day 19-for-31 for 275 yards and one touchdown."Coming into Alabama, that’s what you dream of," Croyle said. "Your last game, in the Cotton Bowl, you to two minutes to score."I’m still speechless right now."Croyle said he told the defense after the touchdown, "You’re all right, we got it."Croyle made several big throws on the drive, hitting Matt Miller for 17 yards on third-and-6 from the Alabama 18. Miller took a hard hit from Tech safety Dwayne Slay, but he held onto the ball.He also hit Brandon for 11 yards and Keith Brown for 23 yards to move to the Tech 31.Brown was Croyle’s favorite target, catching five passes for 141 yards and a touchdown.But safety Charlie Peprah said he didn’t believe Croyle."I’ll just say first, when Brodie talks, I never believe anything he says," Peprah said. "But just the look in his eyes, I mean ... the poise he had for that drive."He’s done it before, and I just for some reason, I just had this feeling, this belief that there’s no way we were going to walk off that field with a loss."

[bkkcoh]

You know what scares me? When our old O-line retires in a few years, and we're stuck with guys that aren't as good, Printers might be able to play better then Croyle in that situation. If we end up not being able to protect the QB, a guy like Printers will be better suited in the short term.

I hate to think that he would beat out Croyle based on his ability to survive behind a bad O-line.

We have gotten spoiled by the play of the offensive line the last 10 - 12 years. Should we be concerned, yes or worried no. I think that we will continue to have an above average O-line, unless we have massive injuries in the offensive line, we should continue to have a solid line.

[Mr. Krab]

I really,really hope these guys kick Huard to the curb.

[Fish]

I've never liked Huard...... but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if we kept him ONLY because he knows the offense... I don't like it, but I expect that to happen.

That said, I would have no problems going into the season with only Printers and Croyle. I could see Croyle doing very well being thrust into a game situation and having to run the offense.... blooming Tom Brady style...

As far as Printers.... I really want to "Scanlonize" this guy and talk him up as the next big thing, but I hesitate to until seeing him on an NFL field running our offense.... and his short game scares me, which is what he would probably run if he saw the field in a game....

[jspchief]

You get rid of Huard, and you risk losing the season.

You get rid of Croyle or Printers, and you risk losing what might be your franchise QB for years to come.

Unless one of those guys shows a ridiculous inability to play at the NFL level in training camp, I don't see how you can justify keeping Huard.

[Mr. Krab]

You get rid of Huard, and you risk losing the season.

I don't even think this is necessarily true. I don't think Hurard can win at the NFL level. Brodie Croyle has more potiential in the short and long term.

[htismaqe]

You get rid of Huard, and you risk losing the season.

You get rid of Croyle or Printers, and you risk losing what might be your franchise QB for years to come.

Unless one of those guys shows a ridiculous inability to play at the NFL level in training camp, I don't see how you can justify keeping Huard.

I'm guessing you're making a hypothetical.

If Green goes down, the season is lost. Huard isn't gonna save it.

[jspchief]

I don't even think this is necessarily true. I don't think Hurard can win at the NFL level. Brodie Croyle has more potiential in the short and long term.Well, I agree (and said as much in an earlier post), but I was just offering that in defense to the "Huard knows the playbook so he has value" argument.

Even if Huard's knowledge of the playbook/system makes him the best #2 for this year, I don't feel it's worth potentially losing our QBotF:

A. because I doubt the difference between a career 3rd string QB who knows the system and a rookie with lots of potential who doesn't is significant

B. because I think it's too short-sighted.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm guessing you're making a hypothetical.

If Green goes down, the season is lost. Huard isn't gonna save it.

While that's true, if Green is hurt for say, five games, I think Huard can come in and help us keep the ship afloat.

I don't know that a rookie could.

[JimNasium]

You've got to wonder if Herm's willingness to play young players will translate over to him keeping two NFL rookies as backups and saying buh-bye to Damon.

[Hammock Parties]

You've got to wonder if Herm's willingness to play young players will translate over to him keeping two NFL rookies as backups and saying buh-bye to Damon.

After what happened in New York last year, I'd seriously doubt it. He may even keep four QBs on the roster.

[JimNasium]

After what happened in New York last year, I'd seriously doubt it. He may even keep four QBs on the roster.
That's true although I just can't see four QBs on the roster.

[htismaqe]

While that's true, if Green is hurt for say, five games, I think Huard can come in and help us keep the ship afloat.

I don't know that a rookie could.

If we have to go more than 4 games without Trent, we better DAMN WELL be using Croyle.

Huard won't be able to keep the ship afloat, knowledge of the offense or not. HE SUCKS.

[redngold85]

If we have to go more than 4 games without Trent, we better DAMN WELL be using Croyle.

Huard won't be able to keep the ship afloat, knowledge of the offense or not. HE SUCKS.

I don't really want to think about going 4 games without Trent right now....

[Hammock Parties]

If we have to go more than 4 games without Trent, we better DAMN WELL be using Croyle.

Huard won't be able to keep the ship afloat, knowledge of the offense or not. HE SUCKS.



+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1998 mia | 3 | 6 9 66.7 85 9.4 0 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 1999 mia | 16 | 125 216 57.9 1288 6.0 8 4 | 28 124 0 |
| 2000 mia | 3 | 39 63 61.9 318 5.0 1 3 | 0 0 0 |
| 2001 nwe | 5 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 2002 nwe | 2 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 1 4 0 |
| 2003 nwe | 2 | 0 1 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 1 -1 0 |

[htismaqe]

+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1998 mia | 3 | 6 9 66.7 85 9.4 0 1 | 0 0 0 |
| 1999 mia | 16 | 125 216 57.9 1288 6.0 8 4 | 28 124 0 |
| 2000 mia | 3 | 39 63 61.9 318 5.0 1 3 | 0 0 0 |
| 2001 nwe | 5 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 2002 nwe | 2 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 1 4 0 |
| 2003 nwe | 2 | 0 1 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 1 -1 0 |


Like I give a good god damn what his numbers look like.

[Hammock Parties]

Like I give a good god damn what his numbers look like.

So why do you think he sucks, then? When I see statistical evidence that he kept the ship afloat in Miami for one season as a backup, that overrules what he did in a couple of preseason games with scout team players around him.

[htismaqe]

So why do you think he sucks, then? When I see statistical evidence that he kept the ship afloat in Miami for one season as a backup, that overrules what he did in a couple of preseason games with scout team players around him.

He kept the team afloat?

Marino started 11 games that season and was injured in a couple of the midseason games. The Dolphins were 7-1 with Marino fully healthy.

In the games where Huard saw extensive playing time, the Dolphins were 2-6, including 1-4 with him as the starter.

[jspchief]

So why do you think he sucks, then?Because he's been no more than a backup or 3rd stringer since.

In a league that is desperate for QBs, guys don't wallow on the bench for that long if they've shown any ability at all.

[Hammock Parties]

He kept the team afloat?

Marino started 11 games that season and was injured in a couple of the midseason games. The Dolphins were 7-1 with Marino fully healthy.

In the games where Huard saw extensive playing time, the Dolphins were 2-6, including 1-4 with him as the starter.

Uh...according to my gamelog page, Huard was 4-1 as a starter and won a fifth game where he threw 42 passes.

[Kylo Ren]

#1 Green
#2 Croyle
#3 Printers
Huard ....... buh bye!

[58-4ever]

If we have to go more than 4 games without Trent, we better DAMN WELL be using Croyle.

Huard won't be able to keep the ship afloat, knowledge of the offense or not. HE SUCKS.

:clap:

[noa]

If we have to go more than 4 games without Trent, we better DAMN WELL be using Croyle.

Huard won't be able to keep the ship afloat, knowledge of the offense or not. HE SUCKS.


I couldn't agree more. If we have to put in a back-up QB, it would make sense to put in Croyle because he needs good protection and we'll only have that guaranteed for another year. If we're ever going to break in a QB by trial-by-fire, this year would be the year to do it. I just hope the front office sees things the same way.

[htismaqe]

Uh...according to my gamelog page, Huard was 4-1 as a starter and won a fifth game where he threw 42 passes.

That's what I get for being lazy trying to piece shit together instead of just googling a game log.

Huard was injured in the middle of the year (broke his nose on Thanksgiving). Marino started the last 5 games of the year.

[MOhillbilly]

Id much rather see KC put all its efforts into croyle for a true QBOTF position and get printers geared to hold the clipboard.

[tk13]

I think we keep 4 QB's.

[ct]

You get rid of Huard, and you risk losing the season.

You get rid of Croyle or Printers, and you risk losing what might be your franchise QB for years to come.

Unless one of those guys shows a ridiculous inability to play at the NFL level in training camp, I don't see how you can justify keeping Huard.

agree

[ct]

So why do you think he sucks, then? When I see statistical evidence that he kept the ship afloat in Miami for one season as a backup, that overrules what he did in a couple of preseason games with scout team players around him.



[edit2] Relieved injured Marino early in week6 game vs. NE, which they won. Started the next 5 games, going 4-1 as a starter.

Not as bad as I thought, looking at the stats. My fuzzy recollection of watching him play, was he sucked major azz.

by the way, this was pretty cool: NFL Box Scores (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf)

[Archie Bunker]

I think we keep 4 QB's.

I wonder which position would take the hit. Gammons maybe?

[tk13]

I wonder which position would take the hit. Gammons maybe?
OL or LB too.

[KCChiefsMan]

I'm excited that we picked Croyle, but I'm not giving my hopes up