Is rap a form of music?

[Reaper16]

Here me out, this is to attempt to settle a dispute. There are plenty of us who like rap and plenty who dislike it. Regardless of whether you love it or find it simple, offensive, and dull answer this:

Are hip hop and rap music?

[KcMizzou]

Of course.

This thread will resolve nothing though (unfortunately)... the subject's been beat to death many times.

[Reaper16]

Of course.

This thread will resolve nothing though (unfortunately)... the subject's been beat to death many times.
Of course it won't, unfortunately, but it is more ammo against Domer's insane stance.

[Dunit35]

Rap kicks ass.

1. rock
2. Country
3. Rap/hip-hop

5,120. Extremely Heavy metel.

[plbrdude]

hip hop-yes
rap-no

[Hammock Parties]

Barely. They are the absolute lowest form of music.

[chappy]

cRap sucks

[dj56dt58]

I'm surprised at the results..10 say yes 2 say no. I figured with all the old ****ers on here they would be lecturing on how rap isn't music and should be banned or something. Guess their already in bed :p

[Archie F. Swin]

tired


tired debate

[Iowanian]

Just remember kids...

Its only 1 "C" away from C rap.

[Reaper16]

Impressive! I really didn't expect 3 whole people to not understand the definition of music.

To reiterate: It doesn't matter whether you like it or not; is it music?

[NJ Chief Fan]

as a fan of hip hop i dont think rap is music and if it is it should be considered pop

hip hop is lyricism and they are called emcees
rap rap is about the clubs and they are rappers/pop singers

[jspchief]

IMO, anything with rhythm, harmony or a beat is music. Part of rap is the vocals that go over that beat, but I haven't heard many rap songs that have no music accompanying the vocals.

And Reaper, I don't think this will have the desired effect. Too many people will confuse their dislike of rap as meaning it's not music, just like Domer.

It's not a question of whether you like it.

[Iowanian]

nn nn nnn no..uuuhuuuuhuuuhh ppp ppp ppp

no ppp ppppppp pppppp

[Dunit35]

It's music no doubt about it. Really good rhyming(sp) is a major part of music and rap artists are some of the best at it.

[tk13]

I don't know why it wouldn't be. Music by definition is a set of sounds arranged rhythmically. I'm not a huge fan, some of it is good. Some of it isn't. Just like anything else I guess.

[Iowanian]

I figure it meets the technical definition of Music, as alluded to by JSP.

That said....It also looks like if you're a nephew, buddy, cousin or friend of a friend of one of the big 3-4 moguls...you can be a rap supastah. Talent asside.

[NJ Chief Fan]

hip hop wu tang clan aint nuttin to f?ck wit
rap g unit theyll take you to the candy shop

[Dunit35]

Snap ya fingers and then rock wit it
Do it, do it, do it, do it, gon drop wit it
All my ladies let me see ya put a twist wit it
You can't do like me, I'm by myself
I do it so good, I don't need nobody else
What's happenin', what's up
Got da purk fired up
What's happenin', what's up
Got Patrone in my cup
I pop, I drank
I'm on Patrone and purk, I can't thank
I'm blowed, to tha do'
don't know how tha hell I'm gettin home

[Archie F. Swin]

I like to think of Rap/Hip-Hop as more an art form like poetry or music

[tk13]

I figure it meets the technical definition of Music, as alluded to by JSP.

That said....It also looks like if you're a nephew, buddy, cousin or friend of a friend of one of the big 3-4 moguls...you can be a rap supastah. Talent asside.
You could say that about a lot of the "talent" that becomes "superstars" nowadays. Regardless of their musical direction. Just turn on a radio for 5 minutes and wait for an Ashlee Simpson song to come on.

[Archie F. Swin]

I'm all that and then some,
tall, dark and handsome,
bust a nut inside your eye
to show you where I come from

[Halfcan]

cRap sucks

Talking and screaming in a microphone is not music.

[Skip Towne]

My daughter graduates from high school Thursday. We used to argue as I like rock and she liked country. Then she switched to rap. We don't talk about it anymore.

[KcMizzou]

You could say that about a lot of the "talent" that becomes "superstars" nowadays. Regardless of their musical direction.Very true. Hell, we have a game show that tells us who our "superstars" are.

I liked it better back when they called it Star Search.

[DomerNKC]

Impressive! I really didn't expect 3 whole people to not understand the definition of music.

To reiterate: It doesn't matter whether you like it or not; is it music?your definition...a definition...my definition? Are you this obtuse?

[Reaper16]

your definition...a definition...my definition? Are you this obtuse?
The definition

[Iowanian]

point taken.

Ashley Simpson couldn't even suk baows until she had that beak taken to a belt sander.

[RealSNR]

Technically rap has rhythm, pitch, and form, so it is music.

Music is also art, though. It has form, it is built on pitches that do possess colors and textures that differ from each other, like pigments in a painting. If music has text or words, then they should go together as one, or the text should support the music. Rap is different. Some asshole starts yammering about shit and a beat is added behind him and other stuff. That's not the purpose of music.

Even worse is people who like this shit. It's the same exact pattern and beat over and over again. That's not entertainment... that's just monotony. To think about what music used to be and how it "evolved" to this shit makes me sick.

So, yeah. Rap is music, but it just really really sucks.

Sorry if you like listening to rap. But that's my view on it and I'm sticking to it.

[Lurch]

Rap is music, as a clit is to a dick.Try that on your Miller's Analogy, or PSAT.

[NJ Chief Fan]

I like to think of Rap/Hip-Hop as more an art form like poetry or music


hip hop is poetry and rap is more like urban pop music

[Moooo]

I don't know why it wouldn't be. Music by definition is a set of sounds arranged rhythmically. I'm not a huge fan, some of it is good. Some of it isn't. Just like anything else I guess.

True. But is someone reciting a form of poetry on top of music part of the music itself? Rappers don't sing. The music behind it is obviously music, yet it is obviously not the focus. Hell, they don't even come up with their own melody, they take an old rock song and sample it half the time.

So is rapping music...no. It is a song with a rap mixed over the top. Does that make it a lesser artform...no. Its just as thoughtless and money-driven as any other sort of modern pop music.

Integrity and music no longer mix. They haven't since the Beatles.

Moooo

[Reaper16]

Technically rap has rhythm, pitch, and form, so it is music.

Music is also art, though. It has form, it is built on pitches that do possess colors and textures that differ from each other, like pigments in a painting. If music has text or words, then they should go together as one, or the text should support the music. Rap is different. Some asshole starts yammering about shit and a beat is added behind him and other stuff. That's not the purpose of music.

Even worse is people who like this shit. It's the same exact pattern and beat over and over again. That's not entertainment... that's just monotony. To think about what music used to be and how it "evolved" to this shit makes me sick.

So, yeah. Rap is music, but it just really really sucks.

Sorry if you like listening to rap. But that's my view on it and I'm sticking to it.
No need to apologize; that is a very valid viewpoint that plenty of people share.

[RealSNR]

No need to apologize; that is a very valid viewpoint that plenty of people share.No, I meant I feel sorry for the poor souls who have been sucked into this garbage :p

[jspchief]

It's the same exact pattern and beat over and over again. That's not entertainment... that's just monotony. To think about what music used to be and how it "evolved" to this shit makes me sick. In a lot of ways, rap is a more primitive form of music. The monotony is reminiscent of ancient music.

[Iowanian]

I'm going to see what it sounds like to record an Auctioneer selling a 1961 set of dinnerware at a farm sale, and dub it over the background music of....oh.....The Gilligans Island theme on Base guitar with a drum beat created with a vintage cold started Allis Chalmers tractor .

It'll be better than poof daddy.

[Reaper16]

True. But is someone reciting a form of poetry on top of music part of the music itself? Rappers don't sing. The music behind it is obviously music, yet it is obviously not the focus. Hell, they don't even come up with their own melody, they take an old rock song and sample it half the time.

So is rapping music...no. It is a song with a rap mixed over the top. Does that make it a lesser artform...no. Its just as thoughtless and money-driven as any other sort of modern pop music.

Integrity and music no longer mix. They haven't since the Beatles.

Moooo
Well, there is plenty of integrity left in music, imo. But that's another discussion.

You bring up an interesting idea - that the vocal on a hip hop track is not part of the song itself, it's simply played over the song. I would contend that the vocal is indeed part of the song, as the track is composed with the rhythmic vocal in mind. Interesting topic, however.

[DomerNKC]

IMO, anything with rhythm, harmony or a beat is music. Part of rap is the vocals that go over that beat, but I haven't heard many rap songs that have no music accompanying the vocals.

And Reaper, I don't think this will have the desired effect. Too many people will confuse their dislike of rap as meaning it's not music, just like Domer.

It's not a question of whether you like it.This just in... jsp says a jackhammer is considered music. Sawing a tree has rhythm. there has never been harmony in rap. Also, don't confuse vocals as singing. I dislike pop, but it is music. i actually like some rap, still doesn't make it music. It is the Equivalent of Professional Wrestling.

[Iowanian]

HEY!

Instead of the Allis chalmers, I'm dubbing over the 2 man saw competition at the lumberjack olympics.

Great idea domer.

[DomerNKC]

The definitionthere is only one definition? really? only one? if there is only one definition, it must be yours. therefore it is an opinion. you can't be that naive.Main Entry: na·ive
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): na·iv·er ; -est
Variants: or na.ïve/nä-'ev/
Etymology: French </I>naïve, feminine of </I>naïf, from Old French, inborn, natural, from Latin </I>nativus native</I>
1 : marked by unaffected simplicity : ARTLESS (javascript:lookWord('artless');), INGENUOUS (javascript:lookWord('ingenuous');)</I></I>
2 a : deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment</I> ; especially : CREDULOUS (javascript:lookWord('credulous');)</I></I>b : not previously subjected to experimentation or a particular experimental situation <made the test with naive rats</I>></I> ; also : not having previously used a particular drug (as marijuana)</I> </I>
3 : SELF (javascript:lookWord('self');)-taught, primitive</I>
synonym see NATURAL (javascript:lookWord('natural');)
- na·ive·ly or na.ïve·ly adverb
- na·ive·ness noun

Pronunciation Key (javascript:showPopImage('Pronunciation Key','pronunciationkey','','');)

More Information: http://cdn.channel.aol.com/ch_rl/icons_listenAudio
i suppose you can.

[DomerNKC]

if hip hop and rap are poetry, then Dr. Seuss and the Brothers Grimm must be their Idols.
one fish
two fish,
red fish
blue fish.
gimme that jackhammer and bring your tractor iowanian, we got a hit on our hands!!!

[jspchief]

This just in... jsp says a jackhammer is considered music. Sawing a tree has rhythm. there has never been harmony in rap. Also, don't confuse vocals as singing. I dislike pop, but it is music. i actually like some rap, still doesn't make it music. It is the Equivalent of Professional Wrestling.You don't think anyone's ever used the sounds of a jackhammer or a saw to make music? Have you ever seen Stomp, or the Blue Man Group? The world is full of music being made from things that probably don't fall under your idea of a traditional instrument.

And of course there has been harmony in rap music. To say otherwise is to admit you have a pretty limited knowledge of rap. It's in line with the claims that rap only uses samples (which is far from common, it's just common to the rap that gets radio play).

And I never claimed vocals were singing. I'm saying that you can't single out the vocal aspect of rap, while ignoring that those vocals are applied to music to make the song.

[58-4ever]

Rap has gotten phenomenally worse over the last 10 years. Songs like Tipsy, any Lil' John song, and 50 cent can't hold a candle to Dre, Eazy-E, NWA or Bone.

[Lurch]

In a lot of ways, rap is a more primitive form of music. The monotony is reminiscent of ancient music.

Hello? We are supposed to be ADVANCING, not regressing!

[Simplex3]

Rap can be music if my farting can be.

[Lurch]

Rap has gotten phenomenally worse over the last 10 years. Songs like Tipsy, any Lil' John song, and 50 cent can't hold a candle to Dre, Eazy-E, NWA or Bone.

Whomp, there it is. Word up. Are you down wit dis? Yo. ***** pleeze.

[Moooo]

I do like how these rap songs sample all of these old school tunes. I download all the old tunes and hear what I personally really want to.

Moooo

[jspchief]

Hello? We are supposed to be ADVANCING, not regressing!Really? We are "supposed" to do anything with music other than create music that we enjoy? It appears to me that the primitive beats and monotonous tones of rap tap into a primal instinct of some sort.

I can certainly understand people not liking it. I don't like country, and I don't like onions. But I don't go around making claims that country isn't music and onions aren't food. It's just a matter of taste.

[greg63]

Gaz

However, I don't particularly care for rap; but I do believe it to be music.

[TrickyNicky]

I think the best way to put it... Rap is technically music in the same sense that Golf is technically a sport. Both are definitely not for everyone and the talents needed are different than the other sports or music.

[Lurch]

Really? We are "supposed" to do anything with music other than create music that we enjoy? It appears to me that the primitive beats and monotonous tones of rap tap into a primal instinct of some sort.

I can certainly understand people not liking it. I don't like country, and I don't like onions. But I don't go around making claims that country isn't music and onions aren't food. It's just a matter of taste.

Fair enough. You can defend it. As long as I don't have to listen to it.

[Moooo]

Really? We are "supposed" to do anything with music other than create music that we enjoy? It appears to me that the primitive beats and monotonous tones of rap tap into a primal instinct of some sort.

I can certainly understand people not liking it. I don't like country, and I don't like onions. But I don't go around making claims that country isn't music and onions aren't food. It's just a matter of taste.

I swear to god, art in its modern sense is nothing more than sickening. Capitalism puts money first, and although I wouldn't want it any other way, it tarnishes things. Everything in a capitalistic society has ulterior motives, and this is just one chunk of the piece of pie that makes me queasy.

At least no one can accuse someone like Mozart or Poe of being in it for the Benjamins.

Moooo

[Reaper16]

Fair enough. You can defend it. As long as I don't have to listen to it.
Whether one listens to it or enjoys it or hates it was never supposed to factor into it. It's simply a question of technicality. Apparantly, 15 people so far have given a curious response. That they would earn my enmity was the reason that this is a private poll. :)

[NJ Chief Fan]

Rap has gotten phenomenally worse over the last 10 years. Songs like Tipsy, any Lil' John song, and 50 cent can't hold a candle to Dre, Eazy-E, NWA or Bone.

all the music is coming from the south
the reason for that is $$$...a&r's can make more money off catchy hooks instead of skilled emcees who put creativity into their lyrics.. back in those times hip hop ruled right now and for the past couple years basically since 2pac and biggie died rap has been mainstream...but by years end i guarentee it...that southern garbage with all that unnessary yelling is going to die down and you wont have to see that fat ugle **** paul wall ever again


THE NEW NEW YORK MOVEMENT
PAPOOSE
SAIGON
WU TANG CLAN
D BLOCK

[58-4ever]

Whomp, there it is. Word up. Are you down wit dis? Yo. ***** pleeze.

If you say so. :shake:

[NJ Chief Fan]

To ease the mind I analyze between lines I vandalize

With rhymes, when I recite I hold the mic like a nine

I design like a composer

Blow you like a soldier

Vocal mind? with the smoothness, move with composure

Grab a mic n' set it like I'm wettin' su'n' with my heater

MC's get wet cuz they be sweatin my procedure

Crimes I design remove stress

Like buddah bless in the projects I choose to rep

My complex like geometry, blessed like ganja be

If I die, live *****z gunshots'll honor me

Properly, I be droppin these lime life philosophies

Criminology, it's just a ghetto ***** prophecy

I got to be laid back, empower property

Sports cars, dogs, and a yard lots of trees

Quite possibly I might even chop a ki

'Cuz even when I chill the D's are still clockin' me

Rookies on their fours havin' wet dreams of knockin' me

See me jumpin' out the mean Lex, a street odyssey

So vex they follow me son, my policy, here to make mines

sorta like rhyme is a robbery, I take mines

There ain't a mother ****a stoppin' me

Rhymes like these, leave ya' mind at ease



this is what lyricism is

[58-4ever]

all the music is coming from the south
the reason for that is $$$...a&r's can make more money off catchy hooks instead of skilled emcees who put creativity into their lyrics.. back in those times hip hop ruled right now and for the past couple years basically since 2pac and biggie died rap has been mainstream...but by years end i guarentee it...that southern garbage with all that unnessary yelling is going to die down and you wont have to see that fat ugle **** paul wall ever again


THE NEW NEW YORK MOVEMENT
PAPOOSE
SAIGON
WU TANG CLAN
D BLOCK

Don't forget Franti & Spearhead. You should check them out.

[58-4ever]

Really? We are "supposed" to do anything with music other than create music that we enjoy? It appears to me that the primitive beats and monotonous tones of rap tap into a primal instinct of some sort.

I can certainly understand people not liking it. I don't like country, and I don't like onions. But I don't go around making claims that country isn't music and onions aren't food. It's just a matter of taste.

I get sick if I even think I might have eaten an onion.

[Skip Towne]

In a lot of ways, rap is a more primitive form of music. The monotony is reminiscent of ancient music.
To me it sounds like a primitive people beating on hollow logs. It does have rhythm but little else associated with "music". Music should have melody and harmony as well. But I'm old. I'm not expected to like it.

[Moooo]

this is what lyricism is

It may be, but its not original. Show me a rapper whose raps don't involve a type of wheel, make of car, brand of cognac, an upper class fashion design label or any other sort of show of money, and I'll label it original. Show me a rapper who doesn't rap about how great he is, and I'll bow down. If the rap industry would just be creative... these threads would not be around.

And don't you dare say Eminem... I would say your best bet is to go with Nas, but other than him I'm totally blank.

Moooo

[58-4ever]

To me it sounds like a primitive people beating on hollow logs. It does have rhythm but little else associated with "music". Music should have melody and harmony as well. But I'm old. I'm not expected to like it.

That's because most of the mainstream stuff you hear is really bad music.

[NJ Chief Fan]

It may be, but its not original. Show me a rapper whose raps don't involve a type of wheel, make of car, brand of cognac, an upper class fashion design label or any other sort of show of money, and I'll label it original. Show me a rapper who doesn't rap about how great he is, and I'll bow down. If the rap industry would just be creative... these threads would not be around.

And don't you dare say Eminem... I would say your best bet is to go with Nas, but other than him I'm totally blank.

Moooo
hell no id never say eminem...eminem is part of what is destroying hip hop...your right i cant name an EMCEE that doesnt write about luxurious things and nas would be the best bet...but the lyrics i posted are from the guy that nas was tryin to portray his career

[Archie F. Swin]

Show me a rapper who doesn't rap about how great he is, and I'll bow down.
Moooo

Rap is always going to be about ego...beacuse its roots are in battling M.C.s. The earliest form of rap goes back to when kids in NYC tried to out rhyme each other instead of beating each other with fists.

[Reaper16]

It may be, but its not original. Show me a rapper whose raps don't involve a type of wheel, make of car, brand of cognac, an upper class fashion design label or any other sort of show of money, and I'll label it original. Show me a rapper who doesn't rap about how great he is, and I'll bow down. If the rap industry would just be creative... these threads would not be around.

And don't you dare say Eminem... I would say your best bet is to go with Nas, but other than him I'm totally blank.

Moooo
Mos Def:

Speech is my hammer bang the world into shape
Now let it fall...
My restlessness is my nemesis
It's hard to really chill and sit still
Committed to page I write rhymes
Sometimes won't finish for days
Scrutinize my literature from the large to the miniature
I mathematically add-minister
Subtract the wack
Selector, wheel it back, I'm feeling that
(Ha ha ha) From the core to the perimeter black,
You know the motto
Stay fluid even in staccato
(Mos Def) Full blooded, full throttle
Breathe deep inside the trunk hollow
There's the hum, young man where you from
Brooklyn number one
Native son, speaking in the native tongue
I got my eyes on tomorrow (there it is)
While you still try to follow where it is
I'm on the Ave where it lives and dies
Violently, silently
Shine so vibrantly that eyes squint to catch a glimpse
Embrace the bass with my dark ink fingertips
Used to speak the king's English
But caught a rash on my lips
So now my chat just like dis
Long range from the base-line
Move like an apparition
Float to the ground with ammuntion (chi-chi-chi-POW)
Move from the gate, voice cued on your tape
Putting food on your plate
Many crews can relate
Who choosing your fate (yo)
We went from picking cotton
To chain gang line chopping
To Be-Bopping
To Hip-Hopping
Blues people got the blue chip stock option
Invisible man, got the whole world watching
(where ya at) I'm high, low, east, west,
All over your map
I'm getting big props, with this thing called hip hop
Where you can either get paid or get shot
When your product in stock
The fair-weather friends flock
When your chart position drop
Then the phone calls....
Chill for a minute
Let's see whoelse tops
Snatch your shelf spot
Don't gas yourself ock
The industry just a better built cell block
A long way from the shell tops
And the bells that L rocked

Hip Hop is prosecution evidence
The out of court settlement
Ad space for liquor
Sick without benefits
Luxury tenements choking the skyline
It's low life getting tree-top high
Here there's a back water remedy
Bitter intent to memory
A class E felony
Facing the death penalty
Stimulant and sedative, original repetitive
Violently competitive, a school unacredited
The break beats you get broken with
on time and inappropriate
Hip Hop went from selling crack to smoking it
Medicine for loneliness
Remind me of Thelonius and Dizzy
Propers to B-Boys getting busy
The war-time snap shot
The working man's jack-pot
A two dollar snack box
Sold beneath the crack spot
Olympic spnosor of the black glock
Gold medalist in the back shot
From the sovereign state of the have-nots
Where farmers have trouble with cash crops
It's all city like phase two
Hip Hop will simply amaze you
Craze you, pay you
Do whatever you say do
But black, it can't save you

[NJ Chief Fan]

Before we did raps, we did kidnaps
Murders, muggings
Cousin, what you know about thugging?
When y'all *****s be out clubbing
I be deep in discussion tryin'a convince my little cousin not to blood in
keep love for the Pen, Lucky got another buck in
Damn shame his mother****in' baby mother cluckin'
She be out with some coward that ain't about shit
Rumors say she put out quick for not even an outfit
Nowadays everybody riding or dying
We own this game, stop tryin'a buy in
Frontin' like you pop iron, stop lyin'
I'm a ***** so ill I punch Math and then drop Science
Saigon, the man with the 2 brains and 3 hearts
Swift enough to build with retards
Rap epitome, academically street smart
That aint even the deep part
Me and my men end every fight that we start
If I aint one of the lot of you, the stacks is unstoppable
On as long as Macks poppable, Cracks is choppable
If its logical, I'll bottle you, beat the shit outta you
Go to your Wake and beat shit outta whoever says "Bye" to you
This is what I would do, and if you was me? you'd bottle you too
'Cause you'd hate a bitch ***** like you
(Word to mother *****, if you was me?
***** you'd ****in' put 1 in your brain too *****)

(Chorus)
If you be living for death and dont be giving an eff
Then hit a pig in the vest and say yes (yes!)
If you be puffing the cess and laying sunk in the S
Then punch a punk in the chest and say yes (yes!)
If you a gangsta, hustla, thugsta that bust slugs
***** that dont trust hugs, and dont **** with the bust thugs
Hold a blunt in your right and raise your left
You blessed so you should just say yes (yes!)

(Verse 2)
Ayo they trapped me in this violent enviroment
Blocks so hot, they need to fire the cops and hire some Firemen
Thugs get forced to early retirement
If they blaze your head, you made your bed, *****, now lie in it
Need to stop denying it, pressure? you aint applying it
1 ***** get mercked, look at you on some cryin' shit
Yeah I cry when I see my little ***** get murdered
Not 'cause he died, but 'cause the shit looked like it hurted
And I'm a ***** thats observant
I seen the bullet when it first hit, his face when it first split
And still no longer than 20 minutes later
m on the same block, same glock, with the same pen and paper
You analyze an innovator
S to the A to the I, show *****s what men are made of
Before you see me in The Source, you'll probably see me in the paper
for poppin' a cop or dockin' shots at a women raper

(Chorus)
If you be living for death and dont be giving an eff
Then hit a pig in the vest and say yes (yes!)
If you be puffing the cess and laying sunk in the S
Then punch a punk in the chest and say yes (yes!)
If you a gangsta, hustla, thugsta that bust slugs
***** that dont trust hugs, and dont **** with the bust thugs
Hold a blunt in your right and raise your left
You blessed so you should just say yes (yes!)

(Verse 3)
Ayo, you knew I'm better than you
Front, get a few embedded in you
Just 'cause I aint have nothing better to do
See what this Beretta will do?
Turn a perfectly functioning human being to a veg-et-a-ble
We wettin' you from your head to your shoe
Yo the only attention you gon' need now is medical dude
And if the shotty pops you, ****in' coroners will body box you
Call the guy that I bought to Karate chop you
To hell with ya crew, you be spittin' that shit thats not true
My *****s have lived and died for this shit since Junior High School
Funny how rappers talk out they ass but aint about shit
So I set 'em on fire and use gas to put it out with
They cowards, talking bout they 'bout it, but we doubt it
The rhyme wont make you a thug, nor do fatigue outfits
We box, ***** we plots tempers shorter than Ewoks
Lace the Reeboks, chase you three blocks then *Gunshot noises*
Unload 33 shots biaaaaaaatch

little faggot, stupid mother****ers in the game
yo yo, I rep for real *****s son
you know what type of *****s I rep

(Chorus)
If you be living for death and dont be giving an eff
Then hit a pig in the vest and say yes (yes!)
If you be puffing the cess and laying sunk in the S
Then punch a punk in the chest and say yes (yes!)
If you a gangsta, hustla, thugsta that bust slugs
***** that dont trust hugs, and dont **** with the bust thugs
Hold a blunt in your right and raise your left
You blessed so you should just say yes (yes!)

[elvomito]

imagery, metaphor, similie, personification, symbolism... gotta love a great story teller who has great presentation

[Moooo]

Mos Def:

Okay, but is that just one song, cause I could do that. "Who we Be" by DMX stands out also.

Name me one full album. And don't think my displeasure is stilted. There's not one Hard Rock artist that could have an album without some form of Self-Hatred either.

I think that in comparison to other genres rap comes across as VERY superficial and image-obsessed. Which is why it is the weapon of choice for young America. Other genres sing about powerful emotions, rap rhymes about vanity and egocentricity.

Moooo

P.S. Can we link to lyrics for the purpose of clarity and cleanliness?

[NJ Chief Fan]

imagery, metaphor, similie, personification, symbolism... gotta love a great story teller who has great presentation
papoose will shit on devin the duge


To everybody in the struggle
If somebody ever told you that you couldn't do somethin'
And you still made it happen
Congratulations
Soul clap for all the independent women
Soul clap for all my homies straight thuggin'
Clap for the real MCs buzzin'
We the leaders of the new school

[Verse 1]
Momma's in tha kitchen cookin' that rice
Father's outside shootin' them dice
Brother's in jail, raisin' hell
Sister's on the corner sellin' fruit cocktail
Family alcoholics still sippin' his booze
That's why I'm rappin over rhythm n' blues
To all you rich black folks wit ya glistenin' jewels
Entrepreneurs, all you millionare dudes
Before you catch another case, limit your moves
Johnny Cochran got a brain tumor, I deliver the news
What if mother nature aborted the sky
When would we shoot our fireworks on the fourth of July?
We can't afford to live, so abortions rise
Can't afford the truth, so we told to lie
Can't afford a funeral, 'cause the costs is high
God damn, we can't even afford to die!

[Chorus]
But if you buyin' a house, I'll be your land lord
I'll finance you a car, that's if you can't afford
I'll own the jails, the banks, and all the property
Here's a million, come on big shot, let's play Monopoly

[Verse 2]
'Cause when the rappers start grindin'
It's a shame, a out-of-towner gotta sign them
But when his album drop and he go diamond
Everybody beside him
Every real artist need a real label to sign them
Just like every good man need a good woman behind them
It ain't about havin' the baddest chick on the streets
I respect the dude Nas 'cause he married Kelis, but still
If you ain't ready, just wanna be my fiancé
Than we could do it like Jay Z and Beyonce
Pardon my language, if you a real bitch
Than we could do it like Jada and Will Smith
Coincidence, where we come in to spin it at
We in tha same place that we first got rich at
They only gonna give us what they know they will get back
So when you get money, don't you ever forget that

[Chorus]

[Verse 3]
He got a DVD flow
They need to give me man, Smack, his own TV show
The voice of the jails, voice of the streets
Kay Slay's show should play seven days a week
We pull guns on each other, are we still peoples?
If you strapped and I'm not strapped, we still equal?
The say don't carry guns, 'cause guns real lethal
But guns don't kill people, people kill people
My cousin gotta do time, he say it ain't nuthin'
Told me, I could do the time standin' on my head, cousin
Yo Paps, stay focused, you out hear bustin'
By the time I come home, you gonna be somethin'
I wish I could do half his time for him
We go in there thuggin', he do a year, I do a year
They run and concur it, but still
It's all about havin' money and property, true
They'd rather see us doin' drugs and robberies, true
We gotta flip that into the economy, you
So my philosophy's the way of the world
Let's play Monopoly!

[Outro]
You gotta monopolize and strategize
So we can get this money
Get filthy rich
Thugacation
Street Sweapers
C'mon man
East coast, pop a bottle wit y'all
West coast, pop a bottle wit y'all
Down south, pop a bottle wit y'all
Count your blessings, you ain't promised tomorrow

[Reaper16]

Okay, but is that just one song, cause I could do that. "Who we Be" by DMX stands out also.

Name me one full album. And don't think my displeasure is stilted. There's not one Hard Rock artist that could have an album without some form of Self-Hatred either.

I think that in comparison to other genres rap comes across as VERY superficial and image-obsessed. Which is why it is the weapon of choice for young America. Other genres sing about powerful emotions, rap rhymes about vanity and egocentricity.

Moooo

P.S. Can we link to lyrics for the purpose of clarity and cleanliness?
Note that I'm just as pessimistic as you about the state of hip hop. Nonetheless, no there is plenty of positve, smart hip hop.

That was just track one on Mos Def's "Black on Both Sides" album, which in full is just as smart. The album is amazing. There are others, Talib Kweli (Mos and he have a group, Blackstar), The Roots, Common, Jurassic 5, etc.

[Moooo]

Note that I'm just as pessimistic as you about the state of hip hop. Nonetheless, no there is plenty of positve, smart hip hop.

That was just track one on Mos Def's "Black on Both Sides" album, which in full is just as smart. The album is amazing. There are others, Talib Kweli (Mos and he have a group, Blackstar), The Roots, Common, Jurassic 5, etc.

Yeah, and I'll admit that Tribe Called Quest is still good. Q-tip is the smoothest rapper I've heard. Not the fastest, or the best, but the smoothest.

Moooo

[Reaper16]

Yeah, and I'll admit that Tribe Called Quest is still good. Q-tip is the smoothest rapper I've heard. Not the fastest, or the best, but the smoothest.

Moooo
Yes, good inclusion.

[elvomito]

papoose will shit on devin the duge
what's that got to do with this thread? or what i posted?
why don't you post a link to the song... who wants to read lyrics on a chiefs site?

[Reaper16]

what's that got to do with this thread? or what i posted?
why don't you post a link to the song... who wants to read lyrics on a chiefs site?
Piracy? That's out of line, Mister. :p

[elvomito]

Piracy? That's out of line, Mister. :pi think that was a mixtape song... free to all

[Reaper16]

i think that was a mixtape song... free to all
In that case, link that ish!

[luv]

If heavy metal and screaming into a microphone is considered music, then I think rap/hip-hop is too.

[greg63]

If heavy metal and screaming into a microphone is considered music, then I think rap/hip-hop is too.

Good point.

[Reaper16]

If heavy metal and screaming into a microphone is considered music, then I think rap/hip-hop is too.
Now, I don't think you'll find anyone, not a single person, on the board that will say heavy metal isn't music. I just got done playing Sabbath's "Master of Reality," and that can't be denied musicality.

[alanm]

One more time around the block.

[luv]

Now, I don't think you'll find anyone, not a single person, on the board that will say heavy metal isn't music. I just got done playing Sabbath's "Master of Reality," and that can't be denied musicality.
Here's one.

[Thig Lyfe]

i like old school hip hop. but outside of that... it ain't much.

[elvomito]

One more time around the block.i know how you feel... opinions are like assholes... everyone has one. and most of them stink

[luv]

i like old school hip hop. but outside of that... it ain't much.
Same here. I liked it back before it was all about East Coast vs West Coast. Back before it was only about hoochie mamas, killing people, spending money, and doing drugs. Sugarhill gang was the best.

[Thig Lyfe]

Same here. I liked it back before it was all about East Coast vs West Coast. Back before it was only about hoochie mamas, killing people, spending money, and doing drugs. Sugarhill gang was the best.

Yep. Back when it was poetry and social commentary PLUS phat hot beats. DMC owns.

[NJ Chief Fan]

Yeah, and I'll admit that Tribe Called Quest is still good. Q-tip is the smoothest rapper I've heard. Not the fastest, or the best, but the smoothest.

Moooo

az is the smoothest

[NJ Chief Fan]

what's that got to do with this thread? or what i posted?
why don't you post a link to the song... who wants to read lyrics on a chiefs site?

papoose is a mix of nas and big L

heres the song i posted the lyrics to

papoose-lets play monopoly
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D826D7527C09FAFD
and heres a freestyle
papoose-hate it or love it freestyle
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=400A0C772D6CAE2C

[luv]

Main Entry: 6rap
Function: noun
1 : TALK, CONVERSATION; also : a line of talk : PATTER
2 a : a rhythmic chanting often in unison of usually rhymed couplets to a musical accompaniment b : a piece so performed


Main Entry: 5rap
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): rapped; rap·ping
Etymology: perhaps from 1rap
1 : to talk freely and frankly
2 : to perform rap music

[MahiMike]

Just remember kids...

Its only 1 "C" away from C rap.

You beat me to it. That's what I always call it - Crap.

[MahiMike]

I wouldn't call it music. More like an attempt to soothe the savages that listen to it.

[Nightwish]

As horrid as most of the stuff is, as much as I can't stand it, yes, rap is music.

[Nightwish]

Here's one.
No offense, but anyone who says rap or heavy metal isn't music either:

A) narrowly defines "music" only according to their own tastes, or
B) hasn't listened to enough of it to make an informed statement on the topic.

Heavy metal hosts some of the most brutal, wrenching, commerically inaccessible music on the planet. It also hosts some of the most melodic, beautiful and lyrically responsible music on the planet. Though I'm disinclined to listen to enough rap to test the theory, I'm pretty sure that the same can be said of it.

[C-Mac]

mu·sic (myū'zĭk)
1.The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.
2. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

To be a talented musician you must be able to play a musical instrument......that leaves most rap artists out of the musical loop.
To be a talented singer you must be able to carry musical notes and or be in harmony with the instrument you sing along with.......that leaves most rap artists out of the musical loop.
You simply would have to forcefully redefine the word "music" or "musician". So IMO rap should not be considered "music" any more than someone who perhaps resite a poem with music in the background.

[dj56dt58]

To me it sounds like a primitive people beating on hollow logs. It does have rhythm but little else associated with "music". Music should have melody and harmony as well. But I'm old. I'm not expected to like it.
Quit acting like you hate rap. I saw you in the club the other day dancin w/ the hotties to 50 cent

[Nightwish]

mu·sic (myū'zĭk)
So IMO rap should not be considered "music" any more than someone who perhaps resite a poem with music in the background.
What you just described in the last half of that sentence is "beat poetry," a beatnik style (from which rap descends, ironically, as beat poetry was primarily a white thing) which has always been considered a musical form. Rap is more abrasive than beat poetry, hip hop and pop, but it includes elements of all three, and is every bit as much a form of music as any other. Rap fits comfortably within the very definition of music that you posted.

[Imon Yourside]

Rap ceased to be music after Run DMC went away, so i guess i'm showing my age.

[KcMizzou]

Rap ceased to be music after Run DMC went away, so i guess i'm showing my age.Another case of, "It's only music if I like it."

[C-Mac]

What you just described in the last half of that sentence is "beat poetry," a beatnik style (from which rap descends, ironically, as beat poetry was primarily a white thing) which has always been considered a musical form. Rap is more abrasive than beat poetry, hip hop and pop, but it includes elements of all three, and is every bit as much a form of music as any other. Rap fits comfortably within the very definition of music that you posted.

I dont agree but thats OK. Some variances of rap I do enjoy, its just that most rap represents violence, abusive and foul language and is condensending and disrepectful toward women. It obviously is termed as music "today" but its hardly music by older standards.

[jspchief]

To be a talented musician you must be able to play a musical instrument......that leaves most rap artists out of the musical loop.
I think you have a pretty narrow definition of what constitutes a musical instrument. Just about anything can be an instrument in the hands of the right person, whether it be a hollow log, a 5 gallon bucket, a conventional drum set, or a drum machine.

[Rain Man]

It looks like I've been beaten to the punch, but I think of rap as being more poetry or beat poetry than music. Nonetheless, I think it probably can technically qualify as music. Bad, boring, non-talented music, but music.

[Imon Yourside]

Another case of, "It's only music if I like it."

as far as you know it's a free country for a wee bit longer. I can worship a wall, start my own commune and consider whatever i want to be music. Try it it's addictive!

[BigMeatballDave]

Yes, I consider it music. I cannot ****ing stand it, but it is still music. Same goes for Bluegrass. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I hate that ignorant hillbilly crap!

[Hammock Parties]

C'mon...you don't like Foggy Mountain Breakdown?

[KcMizzou]

as far as you know it's a free country for a wee bit longer. I can worship a wall, start my own commune and consider whatever i want to be music. Try it it's addictive!True. You are free to be wrong.
:p

[C-Mac]

C'mon...you don't like Foggy Mountain Breakdown?

I'm not a big Blue Grass fan but the new Springsteen album is a piece of art.

[phisherman]

isn't that the one of him covering old guthrie songs? if so, it's hard to call it a "springsteen album"...

bp

[C-Mac]

I think you have a pretty narrow definition of what constitutes a musical instrument. Just about anything can be an instrument in the hands of the right person, whether it be a hollow log, a 5 gallon bucket, a conventional drum set, or a drum machine.

And perhaps you have a exaggerated definition of what constitutes a musician and a musical instrument, non the less, how many rappers do you know that can play with skill, what you mention?

[Mark M]

It depends on the rapper -- some do actually sing, while others may just speak, and even others (like the Beastie Boys) can actually play instruments (they were originally a punk band).

It's the same for many forms of music this side of classical and jazz -- David Hetfield of Metallica may think he's singing, but it's just out of tune yelling most of the time.

MM
~~:)

[Reaper16]

It's the same for many forms of music this side of classical and jazz -- David Hetfield of Metallica may think he's singing, but it's just out of tune yelling most of the time.

MM
~~:)
:spock:

[luv]

No offense, but anyone who says rap or heavy metal isn't music either:

A) narrowly defines "music" only according to their own tastes, or
B) hasn't listened to enough of it to make an informed statement on the topic.

Heavy metal hosts some of the most brutal, wrenching, commerically inaccessible music on the planet. It also hosts some of the most melodic, beautiful and lyrically responsible music on the planet. Though I'm disinclined to listen to enough rap to test the theory, I'm pretty sure that the same can be said of it.
Once again, I have found someone who takes everything way too seriously. Although I detest heavy metal MUSIC, I agree that both rap and heavy metal are music.

Lighten up.

[greg63]

Once again, I have found someone who takes everything way too seriously. Although I detest heavy metal MUSIC, I agree that both rap and heavy metal are music.

Lighten up.


:clap::clap::clap:

[Mark M]

:spock:
My point was that Hetfield is not singing and, thus, not making music in the traditional definition of the word.

But definitions change -- after all, if someone makes music on a computer, are they still a musician? Couldn't the computer be considered an "instrument"? Couldn't joining different samples into a coherent whole (like many rappers do) also be considered as such?

MM
~~:shrug:

[luv]

People have said that it's only music if the singer can get in harmony with the music. I suppose you don't consider acapella singing to be music? A singer's instrument is their voice. They can create different tones and harmonies with their voices. While rappers don't do a lot of singing, you can usually tell the harmony in the way that they rap.

Speaking of singers...In high school, there was a girl in choir who was awesome. You could tell her to give you a C, and she could do it without hearing it first. She would be singing a C, and, when the piano played the C, she'd be right on key.

[KcMizzou]

I think at best the people who say it isn't music are making some sweeping generalizations.

Take Tupac for example. I don't know how anyone could listen to "How do you want it", "Dear Mama", "Me Against the world" etc etc, and say those songs don't have melody.

[greg63]

People have said that it's only music if the singer can get in harmony with the music. I suppose you don't consider acapella singing to be music? A singer's instrument is their voice. They can create different tones and harmonies with their voices. While rappers don't do a lot of singing, you can usually tell the harmony in the way that they rap.

Speaking of singers...In high school, there was a girl in choir who was awesome. You could tell her to give you a C, and she could do it without hearing it first. She would be singing a C, and, when the piano played the C, she'd be right on key.

Went to college, briefly, with a girl like that; it was incredible.

[jAZ]

WTF? Like it or not, Rap is definately music. How can 40 people say it's not. I assume the are just screwing around.

[NewChief]

Take Tupac for example. I don't know how anyone could listen to "How do you want it", "Dear Mama", "Me Against the world" etc etc, and say those songs don't have melody.

Or a group like Jurassic 5 who are known for their vocal harmonies. If you put them in Pandora, one of the musical traits that they'll link from with J5 is vocal harmonies, showing a whole division of rappers that are known for their harmonies.

[Reaper16]

WTF? Like it or not, Rap is definately music. How can 40 people say it's not. I assume the are just screwing around.
Yeah, it has to be people just messing with the numbers. I'm sure, too, that a lot of it is failure at reading comprehension. Then, there is a leftover handful of idiots.

[CoMoChief]

Some of the rap out there shouldnt be considered music, though most of it is. Im not a huge fan of the new rap songs, but I am a fan of 90's rap. Everything now that you hear in clubs, etc. sound the same to me.

[NJ Chief Fan]

WTF? Like it or not, Rap is definately music. How can 40 people say it's not. I assume the are just screwing around.


no im dead serious rap is not music hip hop is music rap is stupid

[Rain Man]

I'll admit it. I know I'm not supposed to say this, and it's politically incorrect to do so, but here goes: I hate improvisational jazz. It's just a bunch of random musical notes.

[Frankie]

Rap is nice background rhythm music violently drowned in ugly incoherence and horrific rhymes.

[ChiefFripp]

Well considering most of it is sampled pop/rock tunes, I guess it is.

[patteeu]

Of course it is.

[Calcountry]

It is a form of communication. Isn't Music a form of communication?

Music is in the ear of the Listener.

To me, it is mostly crap.

[Jmart]

Stupid ****ing Question

[elvomito]

no im dead serious rap is not music hip hop is music rap is stupidhey i listened to your boy and he's slightly better than garbage. now, that being said, he's slightly better than most rappers/hiphoppers/whatever, because they're mostly garbage... but i promise you he will never be half of what big L was. i did manage to find some tracks of papoose's that are decent or above average lyrically/presentation wise. that just goes to show that most people that are heard are not necessarily the most talented, just the most driven or dedicated. i know several local rappers that could shit on papoose in freestyle or written but they're not as driven as him so they are not heard beyond their little neighborhood. pitty. i bet its like that all over the place. most everything in rap is definately crap. you have to really search to find entertaining quality music. i watched several of pap's videos on youtube and i downloaded 2 of his albums, one of them unreleased it says... how can you really like this guy? he's full of ego and his skills do not justify that. it may just be taste because i can't stand diplomats and all that crap as well, you probably like that? sure his lyrics are tight to you and a few, but you haven't heard better so its not really your fault.
but it is pertty much a given that 98% of any rap any average member of this board hears will be garbage. thats just the way it is. everyone with a computer and a cd burner or $40 for studio time thinks he is a rapper and the next "hot shit." shit is right, steaming, not hot

[nychief]

of course it is.

[NJ Chief Fan]

hey i listened to your boy and he's slightly better than garbage. now, that being said, he's slightly better than most rappers/hiphoppers/whatever, because they're mostly garbage... but i promise you he will never be half of what big L was. i did manage to find some tracks of papoose's that are decent or above average lyrically/presentation wise. that just goes to show that most people that are heard are not necessarily the most talented, just the most driven or dedicated. i know several local rappers that could shit on papoose in freestyle or written but they're not as driven as him so they are not heard beyond their little neighborhood. pitty. i bet its like that all over the place. most everything in rap is definately crap. you have to really search to find entertaining quality music. i watched several of pap's videos on youtube and i downloaded 2 of his albums, one of them unreleased it says... how can you really like this guy? he's full of ego and his skills do not justify that. it may just be taste because i can't stand diplomats and all that crap as well, you probably like that? sure his lyrics are tight to you and a few, but you haven't heard better so its not really your fault.
but it is pertty much a given that 98% of any rap any average member of this board hears will be garbage. thats just the way it is. everyone with a computer and a cd burner or $40 for studio time thinks he is a rapper and the next "hot shit." shit is right, steaming, not hot


no shit he will never touch big L but to say pap is garbage is insanity...and to say some one can out freestyle papoose is true madness...no one in the game today is touching him when it comes to freestyles and hes not known that well yet his name is gettin out there hes done numerous mixtapes over the last couple years and is suppose to drop a real album some time this year and his metaphors are crazy hot


heres a couple more tracks lean on me(this is the song that got me hooked on him) and a freestyle
lean on me http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6774481330BA9057

the lyrical one freestyle(over lloyd banks playboy)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6DAB510307761F24
he absolutely destroys this beat

but im kinda pissed that he just signed wit busta rhymes which i believe is a terrible move

[NJ Chief Fan]

oh n he was just on this years madden soundtrack but i knew of him months before i heard him on madden

[DomerNKC]

Yeah, it has to be people just messing with the numbers. I'm sure, too, that a lot of it is failure at reading comprehension. Then, there is a leftover handful of idiots.Ask the people to vote, then discredit the results? That isn't right.

[RealSNR]

I swear to god, art in its modern sense is nothing more than sickening. Capitalism puts money first, and although I wouldn't want it any other way, it tarnishes things. Everything in a capitalistic society has ulterior motives, and this is just one chunk of the piece of pie that makes me queasy.

At least no one can accuse someone like Mozart or Poe of being in it for the Benjamins.

MooooYes. You nailed it.

Rep

[OldTownChief]

Put me down for NO

[RealSNR]

I think you have a pretty narrow definition of what constitutes a musical instrument. Just about anything can be an instrument in the hands of the right person, whether it be a hollow log, a 5 gallon bucket, a conventional drum set, or a drum machine.I'm a concert pianist. It's an insult to the years of blood and sweat and tears I put into my career to have some asshat get on stage and "rap" shit into a microphone and call it music. Hell, I think someone said it can even be lyrical and beautiful as well. Bach is lyrical. Brahms is lyrical. Count Basie is lyrical. The Beatles are lyrical. That shit IS NOT lyrical.

That being said, you take what John Cage did with the Radio Symphony Orchestra and 4:33, and yes, I suppose that's music. Cage "wrote" that music partly to prove that yes, by definition this is music, but that doesn't make it great, complicated, pleasing, or requiring any sort of musical talent to perform the work.

For those who don't know, The Radio Symphony Orchestra was composed for 8 different AM transmitter radios. It was "played" by someone sitting at the radio and following a list of who "tuned" the radio to something and which cues to follow to know whether to play static or an actual something on the radio. Therefore, no performance of this piece is the exact same.

Four minutes and 33 seconds is even stranger. A "musician" goes on stage and sits at the piano for 4 minutes and 33 seconds doing nothing. The noise of the audience, ventilation system, etc is the music. Again, no performance of 4:33 is the same as the last one.

This is called aleatoric music, basicaly meaning music by chance and mathematical probability.

[OldTownChief]

"Foggy Mountain Breakdown" is a famous bluegrass music instrumental by the seminal bluegrass artists Flatt and Scruggs. It is used as background music in the 1967 motion picture Bonnie and Clyde, especially in the car chase scenes, and has been used in a similar manner in many other pictures and television programs, particularly when depicting a pursuit scene in a rural setting.

It was written by Earl Scruggs and recorded in 1949 by Flatt and Scruggs and The Foggy Mountain Boys, with Scruggs playing a Gibson Granada 5-string banjo. It is closely related to Bill Monroe's "Bluegrass Breakdown" which Earl helped to write. It featured the same opening double hammer on, but "Bluegrass Breakdown" goes to an F chord whereas Foggy Mountain Breakdown goes to the G chord's relative minor, an E Minor.

Many 5-string banjo players consider Foggy Mountain Breakdown one of the instrument's fastest and most rhythmically challenging pieces. Only very skilled 5-string banjo players can play it at the same speed and beat that Scruggs can.

[Skip Towne]

"Foggy Mountain Breakdown" is a famous bluegrass music instrumental by the seminal bluegrass artists Flatt and Scruggs. It is used as background music in the 1967 motion picture Bonnie and Clyde, especially in the car chase scenes, and has been used in a similar manner in many other pictures and television programs, particularly when depicting a pursuit scene in a rural setting.

It was written by Earl Scruggs and recorded in 1949 by Flatt and Scruggs and The Foggy Mountain Boys, with Scruggs playing a Gibson Granada 5-string banjo. It is closely related to Bill Monroe's "Bluegrass Breakdown" which Earl helped to write. It featured the same opening double hammer on, but "Bluegrass Breakdown" goes to an F chord whereas Foggy Mountain Breakdown goes to the G chord's relative minor, an E Minor.

Many 5-string banjo players consider Foggy Mountain Breakdown one of the instrument's fastest and most rhythmically challenging pieces. Only very skilled 5-string banjo players can play it at the same speed and beat that Scruggs can.
Flatt and Scruggs have hot wives. I saw them on the Beverly Hillbillies. They made my sticker peck out.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? You can only rhyme about bitches, money, and cappin a foo for so long until the shit is just stale. Music to me is played with instruments. I consider the voice to be an instrument. That being said rappers don't sing. They talk, or yell, or holla dawg you knows what i'm sayin? Call it art, call it music, call it a maggot infested vagina. I'll stick to calling it propaganda.

[Skip Towne]

I was installing a system for a nice guy the other day and we were in his 12 year old daughter's bedroom and she was present. She had a rap album playing in which the word motherf*cker was used repeatedly. The dad and I just looked at each other while the daughter seemed unconcerned. Neither myself nor the dad are religious but that shit just ain't right. We need to bust a cap in all "dat shit". It just glorifies ignorance.

[Sully]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? You can only rhyme about bitches, money, and cappin a foo for so long until the shit is just stale. Music to me is played with instruments. I consider the voice to be an instrument. That being said rappers don't sing. They talk, or yell, or holla dawg you knows what i'm sayin? Call it art, call it music, call it a maggot infested vagina. I'll stick to calling it propaganda.

Kanye West
The Roots
Ther eis plenty, it's just not as popular as the ignorant stuff. But it's the same with all types of music. That which is the most popular is rarely the best.

[Ultra Peanut]

NO WAY

[Ultra Peanut]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? Good Charlotte and Yellowcard are proof that rock is dead!

[burt]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? You can only rhyme about bitches, money, and cappin a foo for so long until the shit is just stale. Music to me is played with instruments. I consider the voice to be an instrument. That being said rappers don't sing. They talk, or yell, or holla dawg you knows what i'm sayin? Call it art, call it music, call it a maggot infested vagina. I'll stick to calling it propaganda.

Dats duh shit motherf***er....some one gimme a beat so that can be music.... I'll call it obnoxious..... when an assault to the airwaves, encourages our youth to curse and talk in ebonics. Rap is the lowest common denominator.....the absolute lowest....

[Reaper16]

The mods are awesome ROFL

[nychief]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? You can only rhyme about bitches, money, and cappin a foo for so long until the shit is just stale. Music to me is played with instruments. I consider the voice to be an instrument. That being said rappers don't sing. They talk, or yell, or holla dawg you knows what i'm sayin? Call it art, call it music, call it a maggot infested vagina. I'll stick to calling it propaganda.


What about Common Sense, Talib Kwali, Jay-Z, KRS-One or Mos Def?
There is a lot of great Hip Hop out there, you just have to look. It is just like any other type of music.

[Ultra Peanut]

Rap is the lowest common denominator.....the absolute lowest....Prussian Blue agrees.

[nychief]

Dats duh shit motherf***er....some one gimme a beat so that can be music.... I'll call it obnoxious..... when an assault to the airwaves, encourages our youth to curse and talk in ebonics. Rap is the lowest common denominator.....the absolute lowest....

while we are mixing metaphors....
I think ignorance is the lowest common denominator

[burt]

while we are mixing metaphors....
I think ignorance is the lowest common denominator

I am glad we agree.....

[teedubya]

There are 105 dumbasses who voted on this poll.

IT is obviously music. And no, I dont like it. But it is music. Jeesh.

[nychief]

There are 105 dumbasses who voted on this poll.

IT is obviously music. And no, I dont like it. But it is music. Jeesh.


of course it is music.

[burt]

There are 105 dumbasses who voted on this poll.

IT is obviously music. And no, I dont like it. But it is music. Jeesh.

do we get to curse at each other now!!!!!?????? Nah, let's agree to disagree! I refuse to call it music...

[58-4ever]

Good Charlotte and Yellowcard are proof that rock is dead!

:clap: At least there is some innovative rock out there though. Innovative rap is much harder to find.

[DomerNKC]

Raise the bar fellas. Professional Wrestling is not a sport. By definition, it could be considered a sport. It is an athletic exhibition. Rap is not music. It is a Bling exhibition. They rise or fall due to their image or shock value, not the quality of their rap.

[Reaper16]

Raise the bar fellas. Professional Wrestling is not a sport. By definition, it could be considered a sport. It is an athletic exhibition. Rap is not music. It is a Bling exhibition. They rise or fall due to their image or shock value, not the quality of their rap.
Most pop music is like that, though.

[nychief]

Raise the bar fellas. Professional Wrestling is not a sport. By definition, it could be considered a sport. It is an athletic exhibition. Rap is not music. It is a Bling exhibition. They rise or fall due to their image or shock value, not the quality of their rap.


that is foolish.

[nychief]

rascal flats?

[Skip Towne]

I was happy to see that the Planet is voting that rap is NOT music. You could call it rhythmic ebonics I suppose.

[Lurch]

I was happy to see that the Planet is voting that rap is NOT music. You could call it rhythmic ebonics I suppose.

At the risk of ruining my rep, and appearing "uncool" to the 'noobs'.....I agree.....

[nychief]

I was happy to see that the Planet is voting that rap is NOT music. You could call it rhythmic ebonics I suppose.

Skip still thinks there is 48 states.

[Ultra Peanut]

that is <strike>foolish</strike> patently retarded.FYP

Skip still thinks there is 48 states."I'll be damned if I recognize Missourah!"

[Ultra Peanut]

I wouldn't call it music. More like an attempt to soothe the savages that listen to it.Pro tip:

[nychief]

Pro tip:
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[Lurch]

Pro tip:

You know what's sad, but true?

Even Jesse Jackson agrees with that cracker. Seriously. Truth.

[RealSNR]

Pro tip:I don't get it.

[luv]

When was the last time you heard "innovative" lyrics in a rap song? You can only rhyme about bitches, money, and cappin a foo for so long until the shit is just stale. Music to me is played with instruments. I consider the voice to be an instrument. That being said rappers don't sing. They talk, or yell, or holla dawg you knows what i'm sayin? Call it art, call it music, call it a maggot infested vagina. I'll stick to calling it propaganda.
If we are using this kind of logic, then me thinking heavy metal isn't music is justified. They don't sing, they yell.

[luv]

Dats duh shit motherf***er....some one gimme a beat so that can be music.... I'll call it obnoxious..... when an assault to the airwaves, encourages our youth to curse and talk in ebonics. Rap is the lowest common denominator.....the absolute lowest....
And rap is the only genre that has cussing in its lyrics?

[greg63]

And rap is the only genre that has cussing in its lyrics?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

[Halfcan]

Rap is not music, it is annoying noise pollution.

Next topic please.

[luv]

Rap is not music, it is annoying noise pollution.

Next topic please.
So are:

Heavy metal
Industrial Metal
Punk

[greg63]

I have heard very little with regards to the music industry that couldn't be considered music.

[007]

Here me out, this is to attempt to settle a dispute. There are plenty of us who like rap and plenty who dislike it. Regardless of whether you love it or find it simple, offensive, and dull answer this:

Are hip hop and rap music?


Where is the "Hell no" option?

[greg63]

Where is the "Hell no" option?

ROFLROFL

[Prince22]

I voted No because most of the Rap music you hear is garbage. Crap like "in love with a stripper" and "let me see your grillz" is not music. It's dumb shit that teenagers listen to because they like the beat and they are ignorant to real music.

Now true Hip-Hop is different. Groups and artist like The Roots, Common, Outkast and many others actually have a message to deliver. Sending a message and expressing ones self is what music is all about. Not showing off your grill or your money.

[ROYC75]

I guess if beat'n a tin can, trash cans, hollo pipe, spitt'n sounds and scratchy records is music........ then yes.

Personally it sucks....... it's shit. Crap

[burt]

Here me out, this is to attempt to settle a dispute. There are plenty of us who like rap and plenty who dislike it. Regardless of whether you love it or find it simple, offensive, and dull answer this:

Are hip hop and rap music?

uh, don't want you to get mad at me.....but.......SCOREBOARD!!!
ROFL ROFL ROFL

[KcMizzou]

uh, don't want you to get mad at me.....but.......SCOREBOARD!!!
ROFL ROFL ROFLThere was a mod "adjustment" late last night. ;)

[chagrin]

The question is, is it MUSIC, not is it good - right?

Yes it's music - any kind of expression like that where someone is using musical notes including percussion, in my opinion, is music.

It totally sucks ass though

[Baby Lee]

This is as dumb as asking if a Big Mac is 'food.'

Then having people argue;

Yes!!! It tastes good and fills mah belly.
No!!! It tastes like crap and has no nutrition.

Both sides arguing vociferously, but not about the same thing.

[chagrin]

This is as dumb as asking if a Big Mac is 'food.'

Then having people argue;

Yes!!! It tastes good and fills mah belly.
No!!! It tastes like crap and has no nutrition.

Both sides arguing vociferously, but not about the same thing.

Okay then, is a Yugo really a car?

[burt]

There was a mod "adjustment" late last night. ;)

Damn that Gochief.... ROFL

[burt]

This is as dumb as asking if a Big Mac is 'food.'

Then having people argue;

Yes!!! It tastes good and fills mah belly.
No!!! It tastes like crap and has no nutrition.

Both sides arguing vociferously, but not about the same thing.

And to make it funnier...(more funny?)....is it is all about opinion....you say tomato......I say.......

I, a sensitive individual....can NOT get emotional about this one!!!! and I am truly lmao!!! Reaper... I appreciate your passion.

[Reaper16]

And to make it funnier...(more funny?)....is it is all about opinion....you say tomato......I say.......

I, a sensitive individual....can NOT get emotional about this one!!!! and I am truly lmao!!! Reaper... I appreciate your passion.
I pretty much started this to see how many people agree with Domer. In other words, how many true idiots who can't accept definitions of words. They dislike the form, so they piss on the English language in an attempt to say that hip hop isn't music. It's actually inconcievable to me how anyone could vote no, and there were 40+ people who did vote no before a mod altered the poll. That's embarrassing that there are so many planateers who think that it isn't music, whether it has value or not. (Why are so many answers either "It sucks, so it's not music," or "It's morally wanting and simple, so it's not music?" Neither of those are acceptable answers, dipshits!)

[Reaper16]

If we are using this kind of logic, then me thinking heavy metal isn't music is justified. They don't sing, they yell.
Oh, c'mon. You could only have posted this if you've never heard a heavy metal song in your entire lifetime, ever. Like Rob Halford, Ronnie James Dio, Geoff Tate, Hansi Kursch, Ozzy Osbourne, the lsit goes on for infinity don't sing and sing very well.

[Bob Dole]

Rap music?

Judge for yourself (http://rollerrapper.com/).

[luv]

Oh, c'mon. You could only have posted this if you've never heard a heavy metal song in your entire lifetime, ever. Like Rob Halford, Ronnie James Dio, Geoff Tate, Hansi Kursch, Ozzy Osbourne, the lsit goes on for infinity don't sing and sing very well.
The point I was trying to make was that, just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's not music.

[memyselfI]

Not a simple yes or no answer, IMO. Rap SET to music I think qualfies as music. Rap without music is poetic speech with rythym. I think that could be true about any song, not just rap, that is actually a spoken verse set to music.

[DomerNKC]

I pretty much started this to see how many people agree with Domer. In other words, how many true idiots who can't accept definitions of words. They dislike the form, so they piss on the English language in an attempt to say that hip hop isn't music. It's actually inconcievable to me how anyone could vote no, and there were 40+ people who did vote no before a mod altered the poll. That's embarrassing that there are so many planateers who think that it isn't music, whether it has value or not. (Why are so many answers either "It sucks, so it's not music," or "It's morally wanting and simple, so it's not music?" Neither of those are acceptable answers, dipshits!)Rap is the one that started it. Pissing on the english language that is. i can't wait until you get out of your twenties and your eyes open. Just because people don't agree with you, it doesn't make them idiots or dipshits. The world doesn't revole around you and you did not invent it. Understand that different people have different opinions and that is a good thing. I just find it upsetting that the generation that preceded me created great music. The musicians in my generation followed the already beaten path and paved the road with more great music. Then your generation came along and took a shit in the middle of a beautiful road. Now my children will either have to start all over or build from what my generation left to advance the torch. With how your generation abolished musicianship for image alone, it may be to late to salvage music as it once was. shame on you sir, good day.

[POP]

You're posting this poll on a site that's 99% white middle aged and male. You're not going find anything.

And yes, it is a form of music. It has beats, rythm and instruments like every other type of music.

[OldTownChief]

And yes, it is a form of music. It has beats, rythm and instruments like every other type of music.


Bull Shit

[Mr. Flopnuts]

If we are using this kind of logic, then me thinking heavy metal isn't music is justified. They don't sing, they yell.


They play musical instruments, otherwise I would agree with you.

[Bob Dole]

You're posting this poll on a site that's 99% white middle aged and male. You're not going find anything.

And yes, it is a form of music. It has beats, rythm and instruments like every other type of music.

Stereotyper.

[nychief]

You're posting this poll on a site that's 99% white middle aged and male. You're not going find anything.

And yes, it is a form of music. It has beats, rythm and instruments like every other type of music.


agreed.

This place is a ****ing elephant graveyard.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

The point I was trying to make was that, just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it's not music.


Again. The question was not is rap music by definition. The question was is rap music. To me music is played with instruments. The voice is also an instrument. Rap is made with screaming, hollering, and computer generated beats. Their is no singing, or playing of musical intruments. Therefore, according to what I consider to be music, rap does not qualify. As far as Outkast, and others. The examples I saw were of Artists who also SANG. That would be an instrument. Talking is not an instrument. Rap that has guitar riffs? Cool, it's horrible music. Rap that is made on computers, and has no singing. Not music.

[nychief]

The musicians in my generation followed the already beaten path and paved the road with more great music. Then your generation came along and took a shit in the middle of a beautiful road. Now my children will either have to start all over or build from what my generation left to advance the torch. With how your generation abolished musicianship for image alone, it may be to late to salvage music as it once was. shame on you sir, good day.

Wow. That sounds like a.... a.... rap song. The me versus the world gripe. The things used to be better gripe. The I love my children, they are the future theme. But, I digress. Oh Domer, what generation are you? Are we talking Average White Band? Or perhaps, ahem, Loverboy?

There, is one thing we both do agree on... we both feel sorry for you children.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

This is like asking if DJ's who scratch two records and sample some music with it counts. **** no it doesn't count. There is no re-mix, there is nothing different except some "kewl" new noise. ROFL that's not music.

[Reaper16]

Again. The question was not is rap music by definition.
Yes, it was.

[Reaper16]

Rap is the one that started it. Pissing on the english language that is. i can't wait until you get out of your twenties and your eyes open. Just because people don't agree with you, it doesn't make them idiots or dipshits. The world doesn't revole around you and you did not invent it. Understand that different people have different opinions and that is a good thing. I just find it upsetting that the generation that preceded me created great music. The musicians in my generation followed the already beaten path and paved the road with more great music. Then your generation came along and took a shit in the middle of a beautiful road. Now my children will either have to start all over or build from what my generation left to advance the torch. With how your generation abolished musicianship for image alone, it may be to late to salvage music as it once was. shame on you sir, good day.
I cannot express enough my desire to see you stripped of all flesh and bathed in a mix of citric acid, salt, and prue hatred. I can't even take the time to address everything in that post, there's so much. What the quoted passage is responding to was my assertion that so many people answer "Because I don't like it or because it's simple and has stupid lyrics, hip hop is not music." That is not a valid answer to the question of whether its music or not, it's thinking that one's opinion about rap can transcend the definitons of music itself. Which is above and beyond ignorant.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Are hip hop and rap music?



I have what I consider to be music. That may not coincide with Websters definition of the word. If the question is "Is rap TECHNICALLY music?" Then it's just a stupid question. Of course it is. What I interpreted from the question would be each individuals perception of music. That being said, I only have one rule. THERE MUST BE A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. Rap has zero.



Edit: The fact that I don't consider rap to be music has zero to do with the fact I don't like it. Fact is, I do like some of it. All of the positive stuff is great. People argue that hard rock, heavy metal, etc. curses, and has negative impact as well. Duh, part of art is meloncholy. What I detest about rap is the persona it preaches. The I don't give a **** attitude I'll cap a mother****er bullshit. Let's tell every teenager through the most powerful medium there is that it's okay to lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc. and NOT CARE about the repurcussions to it. That makes a whole lot of sense.

[Bob Dole]

Anybody have any used bling for sale?

[nychief]

Who has SNR's newest album?

[Reaper16]

I have what I consider to be music. That may not coincide with Websters definition of the word. If the question is "Is rap TECHNICALLY music?" Then it's just a stupid question. Of course it is. What I interpreted from the question would be each individuals perception of music. That being said, I only have one rule. THERE MUST BE A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. Rap has zero.
The Roots = personal definiton failed.

Anyway, the question was is it technically music. Of course it's a stupid question, everyone with a half working mind knows the answer is yes. That said, DomerNKC doesn't feel that hip hop is technically music, and I wanted to see how many people agreed with that line of "thought."

[Reaper16]

The Roots = personal definiton failed. Acapella = personal definition failed.

Anyway, the question was is it technically music. Of course it's a stupid question, everyone with a half working mind knows the answer is yes. That said, DomerNKC doesn't feel that hip hop is technically music, and I wanted to see how many people agreed with that line of "thought."

[milkman]

I have what I consider to be music. That may not coincide with Websters definition of the word. If the question is "Is rap TECHNICALLY music?" Then it's just a stupid question. Of course it is. What I interpreted from the question would be each individuals perception of music. That being said, I only have one rule. THERE MUST BE A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. Rap has zero.

I'm not going to read through this entire thread, cause I just don't care enough about it.

So if I touch on something already covered, who gives a shit.

First, rap is not music.

It's just freakin' irritating noise.

Second, if a person with a great singing voice is singing acapella, is that not music, because there is no musical instrument?

[nychief]

The Roots = personal definiton failed.

Anyway, the question was is it technically music. Of course it's a stupid question, everyone with a half working mind knows the answer is yes. That said, DomerNKC doesn't feel that hip hop is technically music, and I wanted to see how many people agreed with that line of "thought."

what "thought?" There is none I can see...

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I'm not going to read through this entire thread, cause I just don't care enough about it.

So if I touch on something already covered, who gives a shit.

First, rap is not music.

It's just freakin' irritating noise.

Second, if a person with a great singing voice is singing acapella, is that not music, because there is no musical instrument?


I included in a previous post that I considered the SINGING voice to be an instrument.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Second, if a person with a great singing voice is singing acapella, is that not music, because there is no musical instrument?



ROFL also I think that even if their voice sucks baows, it's still music as long as they are SINGING

[Reaper16]

ROFL also I think that even if their voice sucks baows, it's still music as long as they are SINGING
List applicable musical instruments.

[milkman]

ROFL also I think that even if their voice sucks baows, it's still music as long as they are SINGING

Damnit Flop!

I was just about to ask, if I sing, then it's music, even though I couldn't carry note if my life depended on it?

Bastard! :cuss:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

List applicable musical instruments.

all of them. every last one. That doesn't include turntables, computers, and electronic equipment. Before you mention effects boxes and electric equipment rock bands use, remember that they are all used to ENHANCE the instruments being played. Not making the beats or sounds alone. However, if the question is of a technical nature. Rap is definitively, music.

[tk13]

Since when did rap not use musical instruments? Did I miss something?

[nychief]

http://www.averagewhiteband.com/images/white_lg.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

That being said, I only have one rule. THERE MUST BE A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. Rap has zero.Is Kraftwerk music?

Note: Your life may or may not hang in the balance with regards to your answer to the preceding query.

instrumentsBull Shit?uestlove says, "STFU n00b!"

[VonneMarie]

You're posting this poll on a site that's 99% white middle aged and male. You're not going find anything.

And yes, it is a form of music. It has beats, rythm and instruments like every other type of music.
Agreed. Of course Rap is a form of music.

[Reaper16]

I <3 seeing sane people posting.

[DomerNKC]

Wow. That sounds like a.... a.... rap song. The me versus the world gripe. The things used to be better gripe. The I love my children, they are the future theme. But, I digress. Oh Domer, what generation are you? Are we talking Average White Band? Or perhaps, ahem, Loverboy?

There, is one thing we both do agree on... we both feel sorry for you children.Where did you get that? Never did i say it was me against the world, reaper is the egocentric one. Disagree with him, see what happens. I just think that music has progressively gotten better decade by decade until the last 15-20 years. I'm not a musician, I have not been involved in the direction of music. Until this current crop of studio fabricated radio pimps fades away, musicianship is endangered. For crying out loud there are so few real musicians out there anymore that we wont let some bands retire because there is no one to take their place. Hell, Keith Richards has been dead for ten years but we keep proping him up on stage for a curtain call. If it were not for the pitch correcting electronics in studios today, not many would buy albums today.

[DomerNKC]

I cannot express enough my desire to see you stripped of all flesh and bathed in a mix of citric acid, salt, and prue hatred. I can't even take the time to address everything in that post, there's so much. What the quoted passage is responding to was my assertion that so many people answer "Because I don't like it or because it's simple and has stupid lyrics, hip hop is not music." That is not a valid answer to the question of whether its music or not, it's thinking that one's opinion about rap can transcend the definitons of music itself. Which is above and beyond ignorant.Why don't you try sweet cheeks? My shadow would kick your ass. try to make excuses all you want for the results, they are what they are. What kind of a fool would post a poll on a BB, then cry about the results? If i apply a band aid to your wound, then am i a Doctor? Ergo, if i read Dr. Seuss really fast, am i a musician? no, and no. You get really hung up on this definition thing. Are you keeper of the dictionary? Everyone here has their own opinion on this topic. You just put your fingers in your ears because you dont want to hear what anyone else has to say. I have explained myself numerous times, but you are too stupid (or immature) to listen. Music is a wonderful thing. It can lift your spirits. It can break your heart. Most people can speak. Not many can sing. Most people can write a letter. Very few can compose music. A jackhammer can make noist, and has a beat. Gershwin can lift your soul. I guess by DEFINITION, if i hammer a nail into a 2x4 i am making music. I expect musicians to do more, be more, and raise the bar. So, do i believe that i should call any noise recorded by a person with less musical ability than myself; with the sole intention of making money not art; MUSIC because it loosely fits A DEFINITION? no, i won't. ever.

[jspchief]

Regardless of poll results, one thing is blatantly clear. A lot of people on this BB don't know a damn thing about rap. All of their opinions are based on the small sampling they get from radio play.

[DomerNKC]

Regardless of poll results, one thing is blatantly clear. A lot of people on this BB don't know a damn thing about rap. All of their opinions are based on the small sampling they get from radio play.that could absolutely be true. nice point.:clap:

[nychief]

Regardless of poll results, one thing is blatantly clear. A lot of people on this BB don't know a damn thing about rap. All of their opinions are based on the small sampling they get from radio play.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[tk13]

Why don't you try sweet cheeks? My shadow would kick your ass. try to make excuses all you want for the results, they are what they are. What kind of a fool would post a poll on a BB, then cry about the results? If i apply a band aid to your wound, then am i a Doctor? Ergo, if i read Dr. Seuss really fast, am i a musician? no, and no. You get really hung up on this definition thing. Are you keeper of the dictionary? Everyone here has their own opinion on this topic. You just put your fingers in your ears because you dont want to hear what anyone else has to say. I have explained myself numerous times, but you are too stupid (or immature) to listen. Music is a wonderful thing. It can lift your spirits. It can break your heart. Most people can speak. Not many can sing. Most people can write a letter. Very few can compose music. A jackhammer can make noist, and has a beat. Gershwin can lift your soul. I guess by DEFINITION, if i hammer a nail into a 2x4 i am making music. I expect musicians to do more, be more, and raise the bar. So, do i believe that i should call any noise recorded by a person with less musical ability than myself; with the sole intention of making money not art; MUSIC because it loosely fits A DEFINITION? no, i won't. ever.
The problem with your argument... is that you're assuming that your "soul" is the only one that counts when assessing personal response to music. I mean, I grew up in the rural midwest, but I am darn sure there are people out there with an "urban" upbringing who can connect with some rap music and find it more "uplifting", or moving than you or I ever would, because I didn't live it. Are you going to tell them that's not music?

I think you're right, music has to be more than just hitting a nail with a hammer, but there's a reason the saying goes "that's music to my ears", everybody's different.

I mean to me, I don't know how someone distorting the hell out of a guitar and screaming into a microphone representing and "connecting" with anger is any different than a rap or hip hop song connecting with "urban" culture. Or just how bubble gum pop connects with teenage girls... or some country music with rural Americans. But by your "definition", nothing is music, because there isn't any music that moves every single person on earth.

[Ultra Peanut]

that could absolutely be true. nice point.:clap:"I don't know anything about it but I know it's not music! :clap:"

[HemiEd]

no

[DomerNKC]

The problem with your argument... is that you're assuming that your "soul" is the only one that counts when assessing personal response to music. I mean, I grew up in the rural midwest, but I am darn sure there are people out there with an "urban" upbringing who can connect with some rap music and find it more "uplifting", or moving than you or I ever would, because I didn't live it. Are you going to tell them that's not music?

I think you're right, music has to be more than just hitting a nail with a hammer, but there's a reason the saying goes "that's music to my ears", everybody's different.

I mean to me, I don't know how someone distorting the hell out of a guitar and screaming into a microphone representing and "connecting" with anger is any different than a rap or hip hop song connecting with "urban" culture. Or just how bubble gum pop connects with teenage girls... or some country music with rural Americans. But by your "definition", nothing is music, because there isn't any music that moves every single person on earth.I was just speaking to what I believed was music. Everyone has their own belief. What kills me is that others will call you an idiot for stating your opinion. What you call music, what i call music, and what someone else calls music are probably three different things. We are all entitled to our opinions as to what music is or isn't. This poll asked if rap was music and i believe it is not. Are you stupid because you believe it is? not at all. Should you be stripped of all flesh because you disagree with me. nope.

[DomerNKC]

"I don't know anything about it but I know it's not music! :clap:"I was pointing out that i have not listened to all of it. What i have heard is not worth listening to. After hearing what they play on the radio am i going to invest time and money listening to the rest of it? No. He has a point, they may only be playing the horrible stuff on the radio. I may only have a few more decades left on this planet. Not one minute of that time will be spent listening to that trash.

[Reaper16]

Why don't you try sweet cheeks? My shadow would kick your ass. try to make excuses all you want for the results, they are what they are. What kind of a fool would post a poll on a BB, then cry about the results? If i apply a band aid to your wound, then am i a Doctor? Ergo, if i read Dr. Seuss really fast, am i a musician? no, and no. You get really hung up on this definition thing. Are you keeper of the dictionary? Everyone here has their own opinion on this topic. You just put your fingers in your ears because you dont want to hear what anyone else has to say. I have explained myself numerous times, but you are too stupid (or immature) to listen. Music is a wonderful thing. It can lift your spirits. It can break your heart. Most people can speak. Not many can sing. Most people can write a letter. Very few can compose music. A jackhammer can make noist, and has a beat. Gershwin can lift your soul. I guess by DEFINITION, if i hammer a nail into a 2x4 i am making music. I expect musicians to do more, be more, and raise the bar. So, do i believe that i should call any noise recorded by a person with less musical ability than myself; with the sole intention of making money not art; MUSIC because it loosely fits A DEFINITION? no, i won't. ever.
1. I'm not going to try it because that would be oh, so moronic. Empty threats of violence are part of my sense of humor.
2. I'm not crying about the results. Like, at all. I am saying that most people's reasons for the no answer are liek yours in that they aren;t based in a reality that I know.
3. I believe the Earth is flat, the sun is a vegetable, and that I breathe cotton candy. Sure, there is clear evidence that those beliefs are incorrect. Doesn't mean they can change my shitty belief system.
4. It doesn't help that you say the most ignorant things about hip hop I've ever heard. Then, you ignore any relavant points anyone makes about, say, musical instruments played in rap music, going back to this "Reading Dr. Suess = rap" shit.
5. What's odd is that we agree on so many points. Really. But when it comes thinking that humans have personal definitons of each word, that's where we differ. I just don't get why people can apparantly work with their own version of English exclusive to them.

[KcMizzou]

You can't reason with DumberNKC...

This poll was asking for the reaction it got. Most of the people who would bother to respond are close minded anti-rap/hip-hop.. whatever fans.

Those silly darkies can't make music. Only rednecks with big hair and guitars count.

Freebird!!!!!

[DomerNKC]

1. I'm not going to try it because that would be oh, so moronic. Empty threats of violence are part of my sense of humor.
2. I'm not crying about the results. Like, at all. I am saying that most people's reasons for the no answer are liek yours in that they aren;t based in a reality that I know.
3. I believe the Earth is flat, the sun is a vegetable, and that I breathe cotton candy. Sure, there is clear evidence that those beliefs are incorrect. Doesn't mean they can change my shitty belief system.
4. It doesn't help that you say the most ignorant things about hip hop I've ever heard. Then, you ignore any relavant points anyone makes about, say, musical instruments played in rap music, going back to this "Reading Dr. Suess = rap" shit.
5. What's odd is that we agree on so many points. Really. But when it comes thinking that humans have personal definitons of each word, that's where we differ. I just don't get why people can apparantly work with their own version of English exclusive to them.1. good we agree on this 2. you say you are not crying, then you make an excuse as to why people voted the way they did. still missing the point. 3. there is no debating whether the earth is flat. Simple minds have difficulty with the difference between fact and opinion. The Earth is round. Fact. The sun is a Star. Fact. See those are Black and White. Concrete. Is a pedophile Human? By definition, yes. in my opinion, no. I think the standards should be high enough that pedophiles don't qualify. 4. musical instruments played in rap are the exception, not the rule. Most Rap is basic rhyme spoken with recorded music. Simple rhyme structure that can be found in most childrens books. 5. Personal definitions for each word is not correct. Personal definitions when it comes to art forms, yes.

[DomerNKC]

You can't reason with DumberNKC...

This poll was asking for the reaction it got. Most of the people who would bother to respond are close minded anti-rap/hip-hop.. whatever fans.

Those silly darkies can't make music. Only rednecks with big hair and guitars count.

Freebird!!!!!um, who had #224? you know, the bet as to when the race card would be played as a last ditch effort to win a losing argument. The fact that it was played by a moron is fitting though.

[Reaper16]

Is a pedophile Human? By definition, yes. in my opinion, no. I think the standards should be high enough that pedophiles don't qualify.
Does that same logic apply to hip hop, in that yes it's music by definition, but you feel as if it shouldn't be?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

You can't reason with DumberNKC...

This poll was asking for the reaction it got. Most of the people who would bother to respond are close minded anti-rap/hip-hop.. whatever fans.

Those silly darkies can't make music. Only rednecks with big hair and guitars count.

Freebird!!!!!


Yeah, I don't like rap, I'm a redneck, and a racist. You got this from what? This is a stupid, stupid, stupid comment to make. And for too many people will set solid debate back 30 years. I didn't mention race, neither did tons of others who responded. This comment about darkies making music is as stupid as "All black people are lazy." There is NOTHING to back it up.

[keg in kc]

I don't like rap or hip hop. At all.

The fact that they're not my thing doesn't mean they aren't forms of music. The same can be said for other mainstream pop and country, which I also have no taste for.

The more interesting question, to my mind, would be whether rap is a form of literature.

[Bowser]

A rascist? From Charlotte?

Get the **** outta here!

[tk13]

I think the better analogy for all this would be that... for instance, some people don't like soccer, therefore it's not a sport. I would not agree with that, but that would probably be a better analogy.

Another interesting parallel I would find interesting is if someone came on and said "Hey, I like classical music, it is far more complex and elaborate than half the 4/4 garbage with 3 chords that make up so much popular music over recent history... all that stuff isn't real music." (Or insert any other formulaic comment here) People here would probably call that person nuts... or a snob.

[DomerNKC]

Does that same logic apply to hip hop, in that yes it's music by definition, but you feel as if it shouldn't be?im sorry, but was the question(look at the top of the page) "By definition only, is Hip-Hop actually Music?" I didn't think so. I think people responded to the question you asked, not the one you didn't.

[Logical]

...5. Personal definitions for each word is not correct. Personal definitions when it comes to art forms, yes.
The question was not "Is Rap an art?" it was is "Is Rap music" The first requires an opinion the second does not. Rap is music that is a fact, plain and simple.

A further fact is that recorded instrumental music was played on instruments, mixing words and instrumental music (however it is produced) is making music in that the structure has changed from a pure instrumental to a vocal with instrumental backup (obviously not acapella).

Rap without instrumentation might be considered Poetry but if the voice is changing in a rythmical pattern along with changes in tone or pitch to provide color then you have Acapella music again.

Personally I love rap but that is because I have never been a word person when it comes to music, to me it is all about the rythyms, beats and overall sound whichever form of music I am listening to. Rap consistently has some of the best rythyms and beats of all the forms of music. Personally I detest operatic music which has some of the purest words/vocals around.

[ChiefFripp]

It's simpleton music for the most part, but hey so is punk, a lot of hard rock and almost any song from the 50s. There is some truly great rap albums imo, like Paul's Boutique , Cypress Hill's Debut , and The Crhonic( I think i just time stamped myself), but the genre as a whole offers little that I consider listenable. It's music, just music I don't prefer to listen to the majority of the time.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

A rascist? From Charlotte?

Get the **** outta here!




I'm no where near FROM Charlotte. I just live here now. Funny you mention that though. I have never seen so many confederate flags flown in my life. Granted I spent it all in Seattle, but this is ridiculous. I know that the civil war had many issues besides slavery. You can't argue though that slavery is what is talked about mostly when referring to the civil war. That being said, I'm amazed at how many people fly what I consider to be the "slavery flag" openly, and proudly down here. I find it disgusting. I'll be the first to laugh, or crack a racial joke. To actually BELIEVE that shit though? Wow.

[Logical]

One other thing, this poll is misapplied, why not be honest and just ask do you like Rap. That is what this poll was about, but reaper decided to ask people if gravity exists as if that was a legitimate polling question.

[keg in kc]

Another interesting parallel I would find interesting is if someone came on and said "Hey, I like classical music, it is far more complex and elaborate than half the 4/4 garbage with 3 chords that make up so much popular music over recent history... all that stuff isn't real music." (Or insert any other formulaic comment here) People here would probably call that person nuts... or a snob.That's exactly how I feel about popular music, although I would never go so far as to say it isn't music. Like I said earlier, just because I find something...dull, doesn't mean that it isn't music, and my saying that is in no way a value judgement on people who do like it.

And actually, my favorite music of all is (or was) itself a form of popular music, that being jazz. But unlike the majority of more recent popular music, the complexity of jazz (at times) is what makes it so appealing to me. Both in terms of chord progression and rhythmic complexity.

There are times, however, where I find the simplicity of pop music (the recent kind) both appealing and relaxing.

[Logical]

I'm no where near FROM Charlotte. I just live here now. Funny you mention that though. I have never seen so many confederate flags flown in my life. Granted I spent it all in Seattle, but this is ridiculous. I know that the civil war had many issues besides slavery. You can't argue though that slavery is what is talked about mostly when referring to the civil war. That being said, I'm amazed at how many people fly what I consider to be the "slavery flag" openly, and proudly down here. I find it disgusting. I'll be the first to laugh, or crack a racial joke. To actually BELIEVE that shit though? Wow.

That flag represents to most people a culture that is "the south", far more than a statement "I am a racist". Many people do not understand Southern Pride and confuse it as being all about racism. Part of this is due to the emphasis of the history books as the Civil War being the "Slavery War". Sure as you point out slavery was an issue, but much more than slavery was at hand as the motivation and issue for fighting.

[stevieray]

it's not in the book section at borders.

nuff said.

[OldTownChief]

One other thing, this poll is misapplied, why not be honest and just ask do you like Rap. That is what this poll was about, but reaper decided to ask people if gravity exists as if that was a legitimate polling question.

Good point.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

That flag represents to most people a culture that is "the south", far more than a statement "I am a racist". Many people do not understand Southern Pride and confuse it as being all about racism. Part of this is due to the emphasis of the history books as the Civil War being the "Slavery War". Sure as you point out slavery was an issue, but much more than slavery was at hand as the motivation and issue for fighting.


I absolutely LOVE this area, I would be happy to know that racism plays no part in their intent. For the record, I could care less if people are racist, I am as vanilla as they come and it flat out doesn't affect me personally. What pisses me off about it is the ignorance. I have no tolerance for anyone's ignorance other than my own. I admit I know nothing about the south, southern pride, or the civil war other than what I was taught in school. It's just really blown me away at HOW MANY confederate flags I'm seeing. Both Carolina states even have Personalized License plates with that flag on it. I was shocked.

[keg in kc]

That flag represents to most people a culture that is "the south", far more than a statement "I am a racist". Many people do not understand Southern Pride and confuse it as being all about racism. Part of this is due to the emphasis of the history books as the Civil War being the "Slavery War". Sure as you point out slavery was an issue, but much more than slavery was at hand as the motivation and issue for fighting.As someone who's spent the greater part of his life in the south and grew up with a lot of people who flew the confederate flag, I'd say you're being naive if you think the majority of the folks flying it are doing it for any greater sense of "southern pride". They may say that, but most that I've known don't have any f*cking idea that the civil war was about anything other than slavery.

JMO of course.

And that's enough of this particular tangent for me.

[nychief]

on a side note, some of the best RAP out right now is from the SOUTH. Goodie Mob, Outkast et al...

[Logical]

As someone who's spent the greater part of his life in the south and grew up with a lot of people who flew the confederate flag, I'd say you're being naive if you think the majority of the folks flying it are doing it for any greater sense of "southern pride". They may say that, but most that I've known don't have any f*cking idea that the civil war was about anything other than slavery.

JMO of course.

And that's enough of this particular tangent for me.

I have known both, people who are all about racism, and people who are about basing what liquor they like, what music they listen to, what sports they find entertaining all on southern pride and could give two shits about racism/slavery as an issue. They are just as happy at a shit kicking concert partying with any other good ole boy regardless of race but you are a Northern ****, get the hell out of their space you are not wanted.

By the way the ones that I find are all about racism/slavery usually have other obvious symbols over the confederate flag that they use to demonstrate it. But then again that is just my experience.

[DomerNKC]

The question was not "Is Rap an art?" it was is "Is Rap music" The first requires an opinion the second does not. Rap is music that is a fact, plain and simple.

A further fact is that recorded instrumental music was played on instruments, mixing words and instrumental music (however it is produced) is making music in that the structure has changed from a pure instrumental to a vocal with instrumental backup (obviously not acapella).

Rap without instrumentation might be considered Poetry but if the voice is changing in a rythmical pattern along with changes in tone or pitch to provide color then you have Acapella music again.

Personally I love rap but that is because I have never been a word person when it comes to music, to me it is all about the rythyms, beats and overall sound whichever form of music I am listening to. Rap consistently has some of the best rythyms and beats of all the forms of music. Personally I detest operatic music which has some of the purest words/vocals around.touche...if i play a 10 second loop of "stairway to heaven" on my computer, and then read the paper out loud, then i am a musician. rock on! as I have stated over and over, I think it should require more effort to be music. that is all I am speaking of, my personal belief. a belief that I have been told I am not allowed to have.

[keg in kc]

By the way the ones that I find are all about racism/slavery usually have other obvious symbols over the confederate flag that they use to demonstrate it. But then again that is just my experience.Both exist, my only point was that I believe the racists outnumber the "southerners". But, as you say, that's just my experience.

[Logical]

touche...if i play a 10 second loop of "stairway to heaven" on my computer, and then read the paper out loud, then i am a musician. rock on! as I have stated over and over, I think it should require more effort to be music. that is all I am speaking of, my personal belief. a belief that I have been told I am not allowed to have.

If it does not require effort, why don't you do it and become rich? I mean it takes no talent right? That seems to be what you are trying to imply. I mean what are you dumb, if something requires no talent and make you rich you would have to be stupid not to do it.

[Reaper16]

One other thing, this poll is misapplied, why not be honest and just ask do you like Rap. That is what this poll was about, but reaper decided to ask people if gravity exists as if that was a legitimate polling question.
No, the poll wasn't about if people like it or not. Iwas merely wanting to see how many people agreed with DomerNKC. That really is the whole purpose of this.

[Sully]

I'm not a big fan of standing on the ground.
So I believe that gravity doesn't exist.

[Reaper16]

im sorry, but was the question(look at the top of the page) "By definition only, is Hip-Hop actually Music?" I didn't think so. I think people responded to the question you asked, not the one you didn't.
Maybe I made a bad assumption on my part. See, I don't call the genre of music "rap." None of the guys performing it do either. It's hip hop to them, and me. I used the term rap, as it'd be easier to understand for most people and it's practically synonymous.