Position by position, who's got the best players?

[Ralphy Boy]

Not counting coaching, if you just broke down each teams players on their rosters and assume they are healthy, who has the best players top to bottom? Last year I'd have said Indy and maybe they still are, but considering the loss of EJ, I'm not so certain. Cincy? Carolina? Arizona? Denver? KC? Seattle? Pittsburgh?

[dj56dt58]

Not counting coaching, if you just broke down each teams players on their rosters and assume they are healthy, who has the best players top to bottom? Last year I'd have said Indy and maybe they still are, but considering the loss of EJ, I'm not so certain. Cincy? Carolina? Arizona? Denver? KC? Seattle? Pittsburgh?
You COULD say Kansas City because of their great offense and young talent on Defense..but you can't be real sure because the offense is getting older, so your not sure how good they will be next season, and the defense is very young, so your not sure how good they will be next season. Overall, I'd say we have the potential for a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense. The team w/ the best players positon by position I'd have to go with New England or Pittsburgh. If we have another wide reciever that steps up next season and the rest of our offense continues to play the way it has been, and our defensive players play to their potential, I'd say KC. We could have 11-12 pro bowlers next season IF they play to their potential

Trent Green
Larry Johnson
Will Shields
Brian Waters
Willie Roaf
Casey Weigmann
Derrick Johnson
Jared Allen
Patrick Surtain
Kawika Mitchell
Jordan Black :rolleyes:

And maybe a few others could step up? Who knows. Like I said, the ages of the offense and Defense make it hard to evaluate at this point.

[vailpass]

QUOTE=dj56dt58] We could have 11-12 pro bowlers next season IF they play to their potential

Trent Green
Larry Johnson
Will Shields
Brian Waters
Willie Roaf
Casey Weigmann
Derrick Johnson
Jared Allen
Patrick Surtain
Kawika Mitchell
Jordan Black :rolleyes:

And maybe a few others could step up? Who knows. Like I said, the ages of the offense and Defense make it hard to evaluate at this point.[/QUOTE]



That's what I like to see, pure homerism uncut with any reality additives. A couple rails of something this pure will give you a nosebleed.

[htismaqe]

That's what I like to see, pure homerism uncut with any reality additives. A couple rails of something this pure will give you a nosebleed.

If the Chiefs defense were to take a big step forward next season and the offense performs at anything near the level it did last year, that list is entirely conceivable, save Jordan Black.

[vailpass]

If the Chiefs defense were to take a big step forward next season and the offense performs at anything near the level it did last year, that list is entirely conceivable, save Jordan Black.

Those are two VERY big ifs. The first one we've been hearing for about 6 years now. The second becomes more and more ominous for KC fans as father time catches up to the KC O-line and QB.

KC fans on this board overate Derek Johnson big time. He was maybe the 6th or 7th best defensive rookie last year, he wasn't even mentioned in ROY talks. There are some very good LBs in the AFC; too many for the kid to beat out.

Kawika Mitchell an AFC Pro Bowler? Please. He wouldn't crack the five man LB rotation on Denver's defense and would not start for most defenses in the league.

Jordan "Matador" Black? You already answered that one.

Patrick Surtain? Past his prime.

The ENTIRE STARTING PRO-BOWL O-LINE will be comprised of players from ONE TEAM?

I know this is a KC board and you guys have every right to be homers but don't you think this is abusing the privilege?

[Chief Faithful]

QUOTE=dj56dt58] We could have 11-12 pro bowlers next season IF they play to their potential

Trent Green
Larry Johnson
Will Shields
Brian Waters
Willie Roaf
Casey Weigmann
Derrick Johnson
Jared Allen
Patrick Surtain
Kawika Mitchell
Jordan Black :rolleyes:

And maybe a few others could step up? Who knows. Like I said, the ages of the offense and Defense make it hard to evaluate at this point.



That's what I like to see, pure homerism uncut with any reality additives. A couple rails of something this pure will give you a nosebleed.[/QUOTE]

Kawika and Black are a stretch, but you can add back in Gonzo and Knight.

[StcChief]

Trent Green - career year
Larry Johnson - at or near Alexander record.
Willie Roaf - one last good year no injury
Will Shields - ditto
Gonzo - more catches because of LJ run Kennison/Parker having good years too spread the wealth.


Sammy Knight (?) maybe if other D gels.
Surtain (?) needs a good year with solid D upfront
J.Allen - Stretch if D Line starts getting pressure.
Edwards (?) Stretch Part of DL pressure


That is all I could get as PB caliber players

[Chief Faithful]

Trent Green - career year
Larry Johnson - at or near Alexander record.
Willie Roaf - one last good year no injury
Will Shields - ditto
Gonzo - more catches because of LJ run Kennison/Parker having good years too spread the wealth.


Sammy Knight (?) maybe if other D gels.
Surtain (?) needs a good year with solid D upfront
J.Allen - Stretch if D Line starts getting pressure.
Edwards (?) Stretch Part of DL pressure


That is all I could get as PB caliber players

I think Weigmann and Johnson could make it. Didn't Weigmann made it as a replacement last year.

[vailpass]

That's what I like to see, pure homerism uncut with any reality additives. A couple rails of something this pure will give you a nosebleed.

Kawika and Black are a stretch, but you can add back in Gonzo and Knight.[/QUOTE]



Forgot about Gonzo, he is capable of PB obviously but there are some young TEs pushing him. Sammy Knight is WAY past ProBowl caliber.

[jlscorpio]

Knight will be lucky to be starting by mid-season. See my avatar

[Amnorix]

If you go 1:1 position by position, the Patriots probably don't win.

But I will say this -- I wouldn't trade our entire ROSTER for any team in the NFL. Because the NFL ain't the NBA -- it takes alot more than one or three guys who are exceptional to win the prize.

[BigMeatballDave]

Kawika Mitchell an AFC Pro Bowler? Please. He wouldn't crack the five man LB rotation on Denver's defense and would not start for most defenses in the league.

Check the stats. Mitchell had as many or more tackles than any other LB in Denver.

[vailpass]

Check the stats. Mitchell had as many or more tackles than any other LB in Denver.

ROFL

Which Denver LB do you say Kawika beats out for a starting spot?
Al Wilson?
Ian Gold?
DJ Williams?

[StcChief]

I think Weigmann and Johnson could make it. Didn't Weigmann made it as a replacement last year.
Weigmann could be again. Forgot about him.
DJ - no sophmore slump Maybe stretch... with Mitchell, Bell (where are you?) getting LBs solid.

[sedated]

ROFL

Which Denver LB do you say Kawika beats out for a starting spot?
Al Wilson?
Ian Gold?
DJ Williams?


I would take Mitchell over Gold or Williams

[vailpass]

I would take Mitchell over Gold or Williams

You would take Kawika Mitchell over DJ Williams? Ian Gold?
Are you being serious or is this just the homer in you coming out?


Honest question for other Chief Fans on this post:

Would you take Kawika Mitchell over DJ Williams? Honest football opinion, try to be objective.

[jspchief]

You would take Kawika Mitchell over DJ Williams? Ian Gold?
Are you being serious or is this just the homer in you coming out?


Honest question for other Chief Fans on this post:

Would you take Kawika Mitchell over DJ Williams? Honest football opinion, try to be objective.I think I might. Mitchell certainly looked like the better player last year, by a good margin.

I thought DJ Williams was an OLB though. Why compare him to a MLB?

[vailpass]

I think I might. Mitchell certainly looked like the better player last year, by a good margin.

I thought DJ Williams was an OLB though. Why compare him to a MLB?

I was responding to Sedated's comment. You are correct DJ is an OLB; Al Wilson occupies the Mike slot.
I'm surprised by how happy some of you seem to be with the KC LB corps. Do you feel the Chiefs are set at this position? What is the status of Bell?

[bobbything]

I'm surprised by how happy some of you seem to be with the KC LB corps.
It's the lone bright spot on this defense. They're not great, but they're not bad at all.

You may just be thinking they're not good because of the overall performance of the defense. The linebackers KC has are pretty fast and are sure tacklers. A huge upgrade from the season prior.

I think comparing Mitchell to Williams is dumb. Two different positions.

[jlscorpio]

Williams, probably not yet...Gold, in a minute

[Inspector]

You COULD say Kansas City because of their great offense and young talent on Defense..but you can't be real sure because the offense is getting older, so your not sure how good they will be next season, and the defense is very young, so your not sure how good they will be next season. Overall, I'd say we have the potential for a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense. The team w/ the best players positon by position I'd have to go with New England or Pittsburgh. If we have another wide reciever that steps up next season and the rest of our offense continues to play the way it has been, and our defensive players play to their potential, I'd say KC. We could have 11-12 pro bowlers next season IF they play to their potential

Trent Green
Larry Johnson
Will Shields
Brian Waters
Willie Roaf
Casey Weigmann
Derrick Johnson
Jared Allen
Patrick Surtain
Kawika Mitchell
Jordan Black :rolleyes:

And maybe a few others could step up? Who knows. Like I said, the ages of the offense and Defense make it hard to evaluate at this point.

Oh...OK..I see...

The Jordan Black addition was a joke.

Right?

I mean, really,.....it was, right?

[jspchief]

I think I might. Mitchell certainly looked like the better player last year, by a good margin.

I thought DJ Williams was an OLB though. Why compare him to a MLB?

I was responding to Sedated's comment. You are correct DJ is an OLB; Al Wilson occupies the Mike slot.
I'm surprised by how happy some of you seem to be with the KC LB corps. Do you feel the Chiefs are set at this position? What is the status of Bell?I'd say in two years KC's LB corps will run circles around Denver's.

As much as Mitchell sucked his first two years, he was outstanding in '05. I really believe the Pro bowl prediction is not overly homerish. He won't get it due to othe more popular MLBs, but I think he's getting close to playing at a Pro Bowl level (assuming he continues to improve).

I agree with your earlier statement about Chiefs fans over-rating DJ's rookie performance, but I do think there was enough there to be confident he'll be a great LB.

I'm not sold on Bell. Watching him last year makes me believe he's not the same guy he was when he won DRotY. Beyond that, he doesn't fit what we do. However, I do belive that Keyaron Fox will be very good, and I also feel that Griffin has a chance of beinf something special.

So to the question about being set at the LB position, my answer is a definite yes. i think 90% of informed Chiefs fans would tell you it's the most promising unit on our defense.

[vailpass]

It's the lone bright spot on this defense. They're not great, but they're not bad at all.

You may just be thinking they're not good because of the overall performance of the defense. The linebackers KC has are pretty fast and are sure tacklers. A huge upgrade from the season prior.

I think comparing Mitchell to Williams is dumb. Two different positions.

Hmm, that's good to know as I prepare my AFC West rival voodoo dolls.
So its Mitchell, Johnson, and ?? as the starters this year?

[htismaqe]

Derrick Johnson is overrated, but talking up DJ Williams?

ROFL

[jspchief]

Hmm, that's good to know as I prepare my AFC West rival voodoo dolls.
So its Mitchell, Johnson, ??as the starters this year?We won't go to the 3-4.

But Mitchell and Johnson are the locks, while I'd say Bell is on tenuous footing if Fox and Griffin are healthy.

[bobbything]

So its Mitchell, Johnson, ??as the starters this year?
You won't see much 3-4 on this team. Johnson, Mitchell, and probably Bell. Unless Fox is 100%

I really like the LB's on this team. Now, if we can get one more pass rusher to compliment Allen...

[milkman]

We won't go to the 3-4.

But Mitchell and Johnson are the locks, while I'd say Bell is on tenuous footing if Fox and Griffin are healthy.

I rarely ever disagree with your football takes, but watching Griffen in NFLE, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's anything more than a scrub.

He seemed to start out OK, but has virtually disapeared.

Did he suffer an injury that might have slowed him, that I missed hearing about?

[dj56dt58]

Oh...OK..I see...

The Jordan Black addition was a joke.

Right?

I mean, really,.....it was, right?
Jordan Black was definately a joke. You guys thought I was serious? :shake:

[Inspector]

I'd say in two years KC's LB corps will run circles around Denver's.

As much as Mitchell sucked his first two years, he was outstanding in '05. I really believe the Pro bowl prediction is not overly homerish. He won't get it due to othe more popular MLBs, but I think he's getting close to playing at a Pro Bowl level (assuming he continues to improve).

I agree with your earlier statement about Chiefs fans over-rating DJ's rookie performance, but I do think there was enough there to be confident he'll be a great LB.

I'm not sold on Bell. Watching him last year makes me believe he's not the same guy he was when he won DRotY. Beyond that, he doesn't fit what we do. However, I do belive that Keyaron Fox will be very good, and I also feel that Griffin has a chance of beinf something special.

So to the question about being set at the LB position, my answer is a definite yes. i think 90% of informed Chiefs fans would tell you it's the most promising unit on our defense.

Well stated.

Vailpass may not really be all that familair and is thinking about the 04 defense instead of the 05.

[Inspector]

Jordan Black was definately a joke. You guys thought I was serious? :shake:

Naw...I knew better.

And I totally agree, Jordan Black IS a joke. A very cruel, twisted joke that I'm really getting tired of.

[vailpass]

I'd say in two years KC's LB corps will run circles around Denver's.

As much as Mitchell sucked his first two years, he was outstanding in '05. I really believe the Pro bowl prediction is not overly homerish. He won't get it due to othe more popular MLBs, but I think he's getting close to playing at a Pro Bowl level (assuming he continues to improve).

I agree with your earlier statement about Chiefs fans over-rating DJ's rookie performance, but I do think there was enough there to be confident he'll be a great LB.

I'm not sold on Bell. Watching him last year makes me believe he's not the same guy he was when he won DRotY. Beyond that, he doesn't fit what we do. However, I do belive that Keyaron Fox will be very good, and I also feel that Griffin has a chance of beinf something special.

So to the question about being set at the LB position, my answer is a definite yes. i think 90% of informed Chiefs fans would tell you it's the most promising unit on our defense.

Interesting. So Mitchell was solid last year, and if DJ can continue to improve and if the two other unprovens, Fox and Griffin, can realize their potential the KC LB corps will run circles around Denver's LBs?

That sounds a little optimistic but at the same time it's informative.
I knew who the KC LBs were but didn't see them as talented as you say.
You have given me something to watch for this season, thanks.

[vailpass]

Derrick Johnson is overrated, but talking up DJ Williams?

ROFL

DJ Williams is leaps and bounds ahead of D. Johnson in terms of NFL LB development. I understand that there was much hype preceeding Johnson's arrival in KC last year. Many of you thought he had clinched ROY the minute he was drafted.

The plain fact is he was good but not great in his rookie year, he didn't distinguish himself as a bust or an all-star. He was lost a lot of the time like a lot of rookie's are which will decrease considerably in his second year.

The other problem IMHO for DJ and all KC LBs is something I refer to as the Ray Lewis effect: if you have a dominant DL in front of you that takes on all O-line and lead blockers, leaving you unblocked to track down and kill RBs and QBs you too can be a ProBowl LB.

The minute Tony "Jabba" Siragusa and Sam "Hut" Adams left all of a sudden Ray Ray didn't have the numbers he used to have. IMHO until KC gets some serious down linemen on the DL the rest of the D will be handcuffed.

[milkman]

DJ Williams is leaps and bounds ahead of D. Johnson in terms of NFL LB development. I understand that there was much hype preceeding Johnson's arrival in KC last year. Many of you thought he had clinched ROY the minute he was drafted.

The plain fact is he was good but not great in his rookie year, he didn't distinguish himself as a bust or an all-star. He was lost a lot of the time like a lot of rookie's are which will decrease considerably in his second year.

The other problem IMHO for DJ and all KC LBs is something I refer to as the Ray Lewis effect: if you have a dominant DL in front of you that takes on all O-line and lead blockers, leaving you unblocked to track down and kill RBs and QBs you too can be a ProBowl LB.

The minute Tony "Jabba" Siragusa and Sam "Hut" Adams left all of a sudden Ray Ray didn't have the numbers he used to have. IMHO until KC gets some serious down linemen on the DL the rest of the D will be handcuffed.

I think that everyone expected more blitzing from DJ.

Instead, he was used in pass coverage, an area that most rookies will have less impact than the ones that blitz more, like a Ware and Merriman.

I think DJ will be everything advertised.
It's just going to take longer because he asked to do more.

[KCChiefsMan]

I'd have to pop in Madden on the xbox to see who has the most 90+ rated players

[vailpass]

I think that everyone expected more blitzing from DJ.

Instead, he was used in pass coverage, an area that most rookies will have less impact than the ones that blitz more, like a Ware and Merriman.

I think DJ will be everything advertised.
It's just going to take longer because he asked to do more.



That makes sense; hopefully for KC Gun will be able to better utilize the kid now that he has a feel for his strengths.

[beer bacon]

DJ Williams and his 55 tackles, 0 INT, 0 sacks, and 3 PD was real impressive last season.

[vailpass]

DJ Williams and his 55 tackles, 0 INT, 0 sacks, and 3 PD was real impressive last season.

He was a starter on a top-three in the NFL LB corps and a top 5 Defense. If you can't acknowledge that DJ is way ahead of Derek Johnson in terms of being a finished NFL product then you are either homer-blind or football-ignorant and I've seen too many of your posts to think you are football-ignorant.

Keep relying on stats without any perspective to tell the story and they will start to call you GoBeerBacon. :)

[JBucc]

DJ>DJ. And that settles that.

[TRR]

He was a starter on a top-three in the NFL LB corps and a top 5 Defense. If you can't acknowledge that DJ is way ahead of Derek Johnson in terms of being a finished NFL product then you are either homer-blind or football-ignorant and I've seen too many of your posts to think you are football-ignorant.

Keep relying on stats without any perspective to tell the story and they will start to call you GoBeerBacon. :)

LOL!! Talk about a homer. A player racks up 55 tackles and no sacks, but is farther along in production than a player with 96 total tackles, 2 sacks, and 2 FF?? You idiot Bronco fans make me laugh. Go back to your own board and be a homer there.

[beer bacon]

He was a starter on a top-three in the NFL LB corps and a top 5 Defense. If you can't acknowledge that DJ is way ahead of Derek Johnson in terms of being a finished NFL product then you are either homer-blind or football-ignorant and I've seen too many of your posts to think you are football-ignorant.

Keep relying on stats without any perspective to tell the story and they will start to call you GoBeerBacon. :)

You should stop being a dumbass. I have seen plenty of regulars over on OM comment on DJ William's transition to SSLB not working out so well this season. DJ was your weakest LB last season. Gold was the playmaker and Wilson was the consistant performer. Williams was just there. He reminded me a bit of a certain OLB that started for us last season.

[TRR]

I already know your response, and here my rebuttal. You going to say DJ Williams played on a top 5 defense, and that DJ is better because of the overall team. Well, is Vinny Ciurciu further along that DJ Williams? Carolina's D is more highly rated than Denver's. So Ciurciu is a better OLB than Williams right???

[beer bacon]

I already know your response, and here my rebuttal. You going to say DJ Williams played on a top 5 defense, and that DJ is better because of the overall team. Well, is Vinny Ciurciu further along that DJ Williams? Carolina's D is more highly rated than Denver's. So Ciurciu is a better OLB than Williams right???

I think everyone agrees that David Thornton was better then any of Denver's LBs last season.

[TRR]

I think everyone agrees that David Thornton was better then any of Denver's LBs last season.

Of course. I mean, stats don't have anything to do with how productive a player was/is. I still to this day don't understand what the hoopla was for when Holmes broke the TD record, or when Strahan broke the sack record. That's not being productive as a player. :rolleyes:

[SoCalBronco]

Derrick Johnson is overrated, but talking up DJ Williams?

ROFL

DJ Williams is actually the most gifted LB in the entire division, although he is not being utilized properly and is on the field in his natural position only about 22% of all snaps.

Johnson is a great LB too.

[beer bacon]

DJ Williams is actually the most gifted LB in the entire division, although he is not being utilized properly and is on the field in his natural position only about 22% of all snaps.

Johnson is a great LB too.

As a Broncos fan I can see why you would say DJ Williams is the most gifted LB in our division, but my guess would be that most SD fans would say Merriman is the most gifted and Chiefs fan would say the same for DJ. Hell, I would bet that most football fans of teams other then those three would say that Merriman is the best out of all three because of his sacks.

[SoCalBronco]

As a Broncos fan I can see why you would say DJ Williams is the most gifted LB in our division, but my guess would be that most SD fans would say Merriman is the most gifted and Chiefs fan would say the same for DJ. Hell, I would bet that most football fans of teams other then those three would say that Merriman is the best out of all three because of his sacks.

But I'm not saying as a "Broncos fan". I'm saying it as a DJ Williams observer all the way from 1998 till now. I would have said this if he was on the Chiefs or Raiders. I am a long time fan of this player.

The Broncos are an organization that likes to take their fans on wild rollercoasters. They draft my favorite HS and College player, get me all excited, he has an outstanding 1st year in the position he was designed for, on the weakside, where they feature his strengths i.e. pursuit. And then they reward him for his outstanding rookie effort by stabbing him in the back by bringing in Ian Gold, inserting him on the weakside, throwing DJ to strong side LB where he is completely out of place, and has never played and to top it off, they only play him about half the snaps the entire football season. This is how he is rewarded by Shanny. By being slapped in the face. And ofcourse, I endure going through a huge high to a bitter low. It is intellectually lazy to say, he has 55 tackles, and nothing else so he sucks. He's playing 1) out of position 2) away from his strengths 3) doing something he has never done before and 4) is only on the field half (in several games less than half) the time. And yet, through all of this Gil Brandt had him on his midseason All Pro 1st team and Bill Parcells said he was a pro bowl caliber player despite not racking up big stats.

[BigMeatballDave]

DJ Williams is leaps and bounds ahead of D. Johnson in terms of NFL LB development. I understand that there was much hype preceeding Johnson's arrival in KC last year. Many of you thought he had clinched ROY the minute he was drafted.

The plain fact is he was good but not great in his rookie year, he didn't distinguish himself as a bust or an all-star. He was lost a lot of the time like a lot of rookie's are which will decrease considerably in his second year.

D. Johnson had 95 tackles. DJ Williams had 55.

[Amnorix]

But I'm not saying as a "Broncos fan". I'm saying it as a DJ Williams observer all the way from 1998 till now. I would have said this if he was on the Chiefs or Raiders. I am a long time fan of this player.



As long as you admit your bias...

[jspchief]

But I'm not saying as a "Broncos fan". I'm saying it as a DJ Williams observer all the way from 1998 till now. I would have said this if he was on the Chiefs or Raiders. I am a long time fan of this player.

The Broncos are an organization that likes to take their fans on wild rollercoasters. They draft my favorite HS and College player, get me all excited, he has an outstanding 1st year in the position he was designed for, on the weakside, where they feature his strengths i.e. pursuit. And then they reward him for his outstanding rookie effort by stabbing him in the back by bringing in Ian Gold, inserting him on the weakside, throwing DJ to strong side LB where he is completely out of place, and has never played and to top it off, they only play him about half the snaps the entire football season. This is how he is rewarded by Shanny. By being slapped in the face. And ofcourse, I endure going through a huge high to a bitter low. It is intellectually lazy to say, he has 55 tackles, and nothing else so he sucks. He's playing 1) out of position 2) away from his strengths 3) doing something he has never done before and 4) is only on the field half (in several games less than half) the time. And yet, through all of this Gil Brandt had him on his midseason All Pro 1st team and Bill Parcells said he was a pro bowl caliber player despite not racking up big stats.

So he's the best LB in the AFC West, but he only sees about half the defensive plays? Hmmmm, it's too bad that NFL coaches can't see what you see. :rolleyes:

[Rain Man]

Seattle. The answer to this question is Seattle.

[KC Jones]

Seattle. The answer to this question is Seattle.

That's what I was thinking too.

[dj56dt58]

That's what I like to see, pure homerism uncut with any reality additives. A couple rails of something this pure will give you a nosebleed.

Kawika and Black are a stretch, but you can add back in Gonzo and Knight.[/QUOTE]
Yeah..I forgot gonzo..we'll just say he falls in the "and a few others" catagory. As for Knight, I'm not sure on that. Especially since Pollard might replace him sometime during the season.