Avenged Sevenfold

[Bowser]

Has anybody heard their latest release? I caught about half of it on the radio last night. Didn't catch the name of the song, but I'm assuming it's from their upcoming album. Really liked the hard riff sound.

How is their earlier stuff? Are they a thrash metal group, or what's their genre?

[JamSec128]

They are kind of a 80'sMetal/NuMetal hybrid, Iron Madden, WASP influence is pretty apparent. I have their CD's City of Evil (which came out last June), and Waking the Fallen (which I wasn't as impressed with from 2003) First heard of them from a South by Southwest complation CD I got in the mail a few years back.

Their song Beast & The Harlot has gotten allot of play, and is pretty heavy, that maybe the song you heard?

[Demonpenz]

they are alright i am not into nu metal grunge emu pop-core so much, but if you are thats cool.

[Reaper16]

Their recent release, City of Evil, is a decent heavy metal record. Thier previous stuff was all metalcore, and bad metalcore at that. I repect thier new album, but I don't like the band at all.

I have an interesting story abotu the time I made M.Shadows, the singer for Avenged Sevenfold, cry on stage. I'll tell it if anyone wants to hear it.

[JamSec128]

I have an interesting story abotu the time I made M.Shadows, the singer for Avenged Sevenfold, cry on stage. I'll tell it if anyone wants to hear it.

Yeah I agree with Reaper I am not real big fan, but they are not bad.

Lets hear the story Reaper...

[Nightwish]

Has anybody heard their latest release? I caught about half of it on the radio last night. Didn't catch the name of the song, but I'm assuming it's from their upcoming album. Really liked the hard riff sound.

How is their earlier stuff? Are they a thrash metal group, or what's their genre?
Their earlier stuff is more thrashy, or metalcore, as Reaper put it. City of Evil was a decent album (though I don't care for the dude's voice). They started adding a lot of power metal influences on that one, which made it more commercially accessible. Haven't heard the newest one.

[Reaper16]

Their earlier stuff is more thrashy, or metalcore, as Reaper put it. City of Evil was a decent album (though I don't care for the dude's voice). They started adding a lot of power metal influences on that one, which made it more commercially accessible. Haven't heard the newest one.
City of Evil is the newest one, but the old stuff wasn't thrashy in the least. It was the typical sound of the current metalcore trend.

[Reaper16]

Yeah I agree with Reaper I am not real big fan, but they are not bad.

Lets hear the story Reaper...
It was October of 2002, and my friend Holtzcalw and I were at teh Beaumont Club. In concert that night was Mushroomhead (who I've always liked as a hard rock group) with the best metalcore band in the planet, Shadows Fall opening.

Mushroomhead was really good, Shadows Fall destroyed everyone there and made converts out of the audience. Before them was a band called High on Fire. We thought these three guys drinking and smoking tuning instruments were roadies, until they started playing. They slaughtered up with the sludgy, stoner-rock/doom metal hybrid. I loved that band from that instant.

But opening the whole show was a badn we hadnt heard of called Avenged Sevenfold. This was before "Waking the Fallen" had even been recorded, so they had no mainstream recognition at all. They were.... terrible. The 2nd worst live national act I've ever seen. Nothing was good about that performance: terribel vocals, sloppy rhythm section, dumb guitar playing. It was a bit painful to watch.

Well, if you know KC crowds, they're very appreciative of bands. But f*** up on stage, and we don't like it much. Holtzclaw and I started heckling the band, and I really don;t even remember what all we said to them. Other people in the crowd joined in until it became a big hate-fest. Then it died down, and we started with the jeers again. The dude, M.Shadows, teared up and was all like "Shut up! I'd like to see you gte up here and pour your heart out!" He was sobbing a lil bit. Much laughter insued. To thier credit, they finished the set and regained some dignity. But I'll never look at them the same after having made thier frontman cry.

[Nightwish]

City of Evil is the newest one, but the old stuff wasn't thrashy in the least. It was the typical sound of the current metalcore trend.
You have to remember, I grew up musically during the 70s and 80s, and back then there was no such term as "metalcore," so I'm not really even sure how that is defined. Most of what you probably call metalcore now, would have been defined different a few years ago, probably as "thrash" or "speed metal" or "hardcore" or even "punk." For instance, I've heard Suicidal Tendencies described as "metalcore" and as "punk."

[JamSec128]

I would define "metalcore" 80's metal/glam band sound, guitar solos ect.. with a hardcore grit of the 7 string nu metal sound...Reaper what do you think? Is that a fair description?

[JamSec128]

[QUOTE=Reaper16]It was October of 2002, and my friend Holtzcalw and I were at teh Beaumont Club. In concert that night was Mushroomhead (who I've always liked as a hard rock group) with the best metalcore band in the planet, Shadows Fall opening.

That is awesome!! You know I could picture M.Shadows doing that as well, he kinda has that Good Charlotte "I am a punk/hard core, but still a frat boy type persona :clap:

[Nightwish]

[QUOTE=Reaper16]It was October of 2002, and my friend Holtzcalw and I were at teh Beaumont Club. In concert that night was Mushroomhead (who I've always liked as a hard rock group) with the best metalcore band in the planet, Shadows Fall opening.

That is awesome!! You know I could picture M.Shadows doing that as well, he kinda has that Good Charlotte "I am a punk/hard core, but still a frat boy type persona :clap:Speaking of frat boy personas, have you ever seen the guys from GWAR out of their characters and costumes? Except for the bassist, who is pretty much your stereotypical metal dude, the rest of them are these total GQ-looking, ivy league, frat boy types. I was kind of shocked, because I was expecting long, greasy hair, tattooed and pierced from head to toe, total punk/metal attitude, not guys in khaki shorts and pastel polo shirts! They're total preppies!

[Nightwish]

Having just listened to all three of Avenged Sevenfold's full-length albums, and their EP, and having read up on wikipedia's entry for "metalcore," I don't think they really fit that designation as much as a number of other bands. Of course, new names for subgenres are popping up all the time, and a new subgenre that has come up called "Gothencore" (so named for the way it combines hardcore punk and Gothenburg melodic death/black metal. Avenged Sevenfold seems to have a lot of that Gothenburg style going on, with a bit of Anthrax and Walls of Jericho era Helloween thrown in for good measure.

I have to also say, after listening to all three again, I honestly think that Sounding the Seventh Trumpet is actually a better album, overall, than Waking the Fallen (though "Eternal Rest" on Waking the Fallen has some really badass soloing during the intro). They also seemed to play around more with the clean vocals on Sounding the Seventh Trumpet, then went more heavily with the quasi-black metal vocals on Waking the Fallen, then back to giving a little more prominence to the clean vocals on City of Evil. All in all, all three albums are quite good, if you don't mind his voice. I find his "growl" voice hard to catagorize, actually, but I think it runs closer to black metal than anything else. It's too clean to totally call it black metal, too high-pitched and clean to call it death metal, too clear and polished to call it hardcore, and too "dirty" to call it metal. I think that "Gothencore" is probably the best descriptive I've come across for them.

[Nightwish]

Their song Beast & The Harlot has gotten allot of play, and is pretty heavy, that maybe the song you heard?
Possible, it has gotten some airplay. "Burn it Down" was played to death there for awhile, especially on VH1's Headbanger's Ball, who for awhile there was playing the video every week. I think that was the first release from the City of Evil album.

[Reaper16]

To clear the air on metalcore:

Metalcore is an actual genre of music; a combination of metal and hardcore punk. You may recall a true merge of punk and metal styles known as crossover in the late 80's, early 90s. Metalcore is like that, but specifically hardcore punk blended with metal.

There are really two main sounds in metalcore. One that is heavier on the hardcore side, and the other heavier on the metal side.

"Gothencore" is not ana ctual genre of music, it's a nice media term. Simply put, it's metalcore. The metal influence comes from the Gotheburg originated melodic death metal scene. (In Flames, At The Gates, Dark Tranquility, Soilwork, etc.)

And no, no metalcore would have been classifed as thrash a few years ago. I will not hesitate to kill you if you dare tarnish teh name of thrash metal further.

[Nightwish]

And no, no metalcore would have been classifed as thrash a few years ago. I will not hesitate to kill you if you dare tarnish teh name of thrash metal further.If not thrash, then it probably would have been called speed metal. It almost certainly wouldn't have been called either punk or hardcore, because although it has some elements of those, it isn't very similar to either one. And since the terms "nu metal," "metalcore" and "grindcore" didn't exist until sometime in the 90s, we know it wouldn't have been called any of those.

As far as "Gothencore," the media didn't come up with that, the body of fans did, in order to point out that the differences it has with other metal/punk/hardcore hybrids are big enough that it is distinguishable to them and they don't want it lumped in with those other styles. When it comes down to it, there are no real authoritative "industry terms," they're all out there because somebody at some point came up with them, and a group of people latched onto it. The fans and the bands create the genres more than anyone else. The industry stuffed shirts that sit back and take the credit (for being the first to print it in this or that publication) are mostly just riding the coattails of what somebody else actually created. If enough people recognize a distinction in a particular style of music, enough so to give it its own name and stick with it, then it becomes a new genre. It usually starts with a band or two doing something a little different, hooking some people on their new sound, then somebody deciding it is different enough to call it something different. Once it's got a name, then it spreads big time. Before "power metal" was power metal, it was just a few bands like Helloween, Manowar and Queensryche latching onto what Iron Maiden and Judas Priest were doing, adding a couple new twists and carrying the scene on their shoulders. Then somebody came up with the bright idea of delineating those twists and characteristics, calling it by a catchy, but relevant, name ("power metal"), and in no time flat, there were hundreds of them coming out of the woodworks (though it still hasn't really caught on in the US yet, because, well, we're really slow to catch on). Prog metal actually derives from its blending of metal and prog rock. Prog rock, of course, was actually accurately descriptive at one time, as it was pushing the envelope with frontiers rock music had never sought before. Of course, there hasn't been anything new or particularly innovative out of the prog universe for quite awhile now, so it's perhaps not as accurate a descriptor as it once was. I think the term "math metal," while it may not be en vogue with the stuffed shirts in the industry offices (you know, those guys who never learned to play an instrument, so all they can do is write about it or produce it), is a much more descriptive term than "prog metal" these days for what is largely going on in that genre.

[Reaper16]

If not thrash, then it probably would have been called speed metal. It almost certainly wouldn't have been called either punk or hardcore, because although it has some elements of those, it isn't very similar to either one. And since the terms "nu metal," "metalcore" and "grindcore" didn't exist until sometime in the 90s, we know it wouldn't have been called any of those.
It's closest to hardcore than anything. SO, most accurately, it's mroe a punk subgenre than a metal subgenre. So yeah, it'd be hardcore. But it's a recent trend. It didn't exist as a sound back then. They made the word metalcore to describe what was a burgeoning new sound.

[Nightwish]

It's closest to hardcore than anything. SO, most accurately, it's mroe a punk subgenre than a metal subgenre. So yeah, it'd be hardcore. But it's a recent trend. It didn't exist as a sound back then. They made the word metalcore to describe what was a burgeoning new sound.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that. When I listen to Avenged Sevenfold, I hear about 7 parts metal to about 3 parts punk or hardcore. The guitar riffing could be associated with hardcore, but the polish moves it more toward the metal side. The attitude is punk. The leads are metal. The voice and lyrics are what are most reminiscent of punk. The double bass drumming is speed metal, though the snares and downbeats occasionally venture into punk.

[BigMeatballDave]

Not bad. I never heard of them until Bat Country came out...

[Reaper16]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that. When I listen to Avenged Sevenfold, I hear about 7 parts metal to about 3 parts punk or hardcore. The guitar riffing could be associated with hardcore, but the polish moves it more toward the metal side. The attitude is punk. The leads are metal. The voice and lyrics are what are most reminiscent of punk. The double bass drumming is speed metal, though the snares and downbeats occasionally venture into punk.
In other words, metalcore. Yes, I know. :) Just like Killswitch Engage, All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, Atreyu, and numerous other bands in that scene.