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Logical
05-29-2006, 06:25 PM
EDIT: I am writing about thread responses in this message not the thread headers themselves.

I wonder if some of you realize how often you are writing dissertations rather than messages. I find myself avoiding reading some of them and not responding due to the number of combined messages in a single post.

I am not asking you to change.

I just hope you will realize you are diluting your message by mixing so many thoughts and concepts into a single post.

Again this is not a request for anyone to change, just for people to consider.

jAZ
05-29-2006, 06:44 PM
I wonder if some of you realize how often you are writing dissertations rather than messages. I find myself avoiding reading some of them and not responding due to the number of combined messages in a single post.

I am not asking you to change.

I just hope you will realize you are diluting your message by mixing so many thoughts and concepts into a single post.

Again this is not a request for anyone to change, just for people to consider.
Logical: the product of the pathetic MTV Generation.

:shake:

:p

penchief
05-29-2006, 06:47 PM
I wonder if some of you realize how often you are writing dissertations rather than messages. I find myself avoiding reading some of them and not responding due to the number of combined messages in a single post.

I am not asking you to change.

I just hope you will realize you are diluting your message by mixing so many thoughts and concepts into a single post.

Again this is not a request for anyone to change, just for people to consider.

I'll confess that I am probably guilty of this. Sometimes I just can't help myself. I go through stages where I commit myself to brevity but I always end up back where I started. Sigh......

Logical
05-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Logical: the product of the pathetic MTV Generation.

:shake:

:pNah actually I precede it. However, I surf a lot in short bursts at work and while I am doing other things in the evenings. I don't have time to read all these voluminous posts of late. Once in a while no biggie, but lately it seems like they dominate this forum.

penchief
05-29-2006, 07:29 PM
Nah actually I precede it. However, I surf a lot in short bursts at work and while I am doing other things in the evenings. I don't have time to read all these voluminous posts of late. Once in a while no biggie, but lately it seems like they dominate this forum.

Lately, stevieray deserves kudos for keeping his smack confined to irrelevant one-liners.

jAZ
05-29-2006, 08:26 PM
Nah actually I precede it. However, I surf a lot in short bursts at work and while I am doing other things in the evenings. I don't have time to read all these voluminous posts of late. Once in a while no biggie, but lately it seems like they dominate this forum.
I know, I'm just giving you shit. You are correct, and I am the same way. Both a sometimes lengthy poster and one who will often skip the longer posts if I'm in a rush.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 08:27 PM
Nah actually I precede it. However, I surf a lot in short bursts at work and while I am doing other things in the evenings. I don't have time to read all these voluminous posts of late. Once in a while no biggie, but lately it seems like they dominate this forum.


You make a very good point. I don't come here and read anywhere near as much as I used to because so many of the threads are cut and paste articles with, at most, a few lines thrown in by the poster. The ones that aren't tend to read like manifestos created by revolutionary governments instead of political comments. Nowhere near as interesting as it used to be.

banyon
05-29-2006, 08:36 PM
You make a very good point. I don't come here and read anywhere near as much as I used to because so many of the threads are cut and paste articles with, at most, a few lines thrown in by the poster. The ones that aren't tend to read like manifestos created by revolutionary governments instead of political comments. Nowhere near as interesting as it used to be.

What were threads about in the good ol days if they weren't about current events and they weren't diatribes.

Pithy, eloquent statements and questions of political philosophy?

Was every poster basically like an internet version of Thomas Paine?

Eleazar
05-29-2006, 08:41 PM
Yeah... realistically, if a post consists of a huge chunk of text and I'm not intimately interested in what the person says, I just Page Down. I am far more likely to read if it's broken up into coherent paragraphs though.

The one that really gets my goat is people pasting in huge articles in the middle of a thread. Who is going to read a 2000 word essay that the poster himself just copied and pasted? Just give us a reader's digest and put the link there so people can click through if they are interested in gory details.

Personally I'm guilty of this sometimes, but I always type out a whole post and then go back to the start of it and trim it down to the smallest size I possibly can.

Taco John
05-29-2006, 08:58 PM
Lately, stevieray deserves kudos for keeping his smack confined to irrelevant one-liners.



He learned it by watching Brock, alright!

Logical
05-29-2006, 09:16 PM
What were threads about in the good ol days if they weren't about current events and they weren't diatribes.

Pithy, eloquent statements and questions of political philosophy?

Was every poster basically like an internet version of Thomas Paine?Typically they rarely exceeded two paragraphs, often 1 paragraph. If the person had more than one concept/idea/thought to express they would use more than one post so each could be responded to separately.

banyon
05-29-2006, 09:24 PM
Typically they rarely exceeded two paragraphs, often 1 paragraph. If the person had more than one concept/idea/thought to express they would use more than one post so each could be responded to separately.

can you point to a recent thread that fits this mold?

listopencil
05-29-2006, 09:41 PM
can you point to a recent thread that fits this mold?


Here are a few on the front page that fit the "post an article" type.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141484

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141443

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141422

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141288

It's not like you have to look very hard.

Logical
05-29-2006, 09:42 PM
can you point to a recent thread that fits this mold?If there was a recent thread why would I have made this thread. That is the point, of late this concept seems to have disappeared. You are relatively new so you probably have not even experienced it. It has become progressively worse over the last 6 or so months.

Logical
05-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Here are a few on the front page that fit the "post an article" type.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141484

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141443

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141422

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141288

It's not like you have to look very hard.

I think he means threads not filled with long posts.

banyon
05-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Here are a few on the front page that fit the "post an article" type.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141484

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141443

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141422

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=141288

It's not like you have to look very hard.


No. Sorry if I was unclear, I meant the opposite. One that fits the old, "good" mold.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 09:46 PM
What were threads about in the good ol days if they weren't about current events and they weren't diatribes.

Pithy, eloquent statements and questions of political philosophy?

Was every poster basically like an internet version of Thomas Paine?


From what I recall many people posted a few lines of text and a link to the article it came from. Then they would give an opinion. Most of the text of the posts would be from the actual poster rather than an entire cut-and-paste article with very little comment. Threads of this type seemed to create more discussion.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 09:47 PM
No. Sorry if I was unclear, I meant the opposite. One that fits the old, "good" mold.


Back around the last POTUS election this place was rocking. It resembled the Lounge, just with a political twist.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 09:50 PM
No. Sorry if I was unclear, I meant the opposite. One that fits the old, "good" mold.



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115882&highlight=election




I don't remember when DC started up, but this is one of the older threads that illustrate my example of posting a link and giving your opinion on a topic and how it can spur on discussion.

banyon
05-29-2006, 09:54 PM
From what I recall many people posted a few lines of text and a link to the article it came from. Then they would give an opinion. Most of the text of the posts would be from the actual poster rather than an entire cut-and-paste article with very little comment. Threads of this type seemed to create more discussion.

I always cut and paste the article, if I'm referring to one, more as a courtesy.

It just seems easier than actually following links back and forth.

Also, in the last few years, for a lot of news sites, you have to register or subscribe to view an entire article. I don't want to put people through that hassle just to address something I post.

If you don't source at all, then invariably you get someone calling you on your not sourcing.

This is why I would like an example of a thread that met your example, but did not have the problems I outline above.

*edit* I see your example thread now, I'll give it a gander.

penchief
05-29-2006, 09:58 PM
I always cut and paste the article, if I'm referring to one, more as a courtesy.

Yeah, I don't normally start a lot of threads but after a while it eventually occurred to me that cutting and pasting the article made sense from an etiquette point of view.

banyon
05-29-2006, 09:58 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115882&highlight=election




I don't remember when DC started up, but this is one of the older threads that illustrate my example of posting a link and giving your opinion on a topic and how it can spur on discussion.

Actually, now that we are referring back to this thread, It would be better in retrospect to have the text of the story posted.

The link is outdated and the story is gone.

unlurking
05-29-2006, 10:05 PM
Personally, I like having the article posted. I do prefer a "summary" as to what it is about and the reason I should read it from the poster preceding it however.

We have enough problems here with people going off "half-cocked" without reading the article in the post.

Logical
05-29-2006, 10:08 PM
Banyon,

I went back 8 months and found a thread that is what I am talking about. By the way it is really hard not to go back that far, it was like 55 thread header pages deep.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=123406&page=4&pp=30

listopencil
05-29-2006, 10:13 PM
Actually, now that we are referring back to this thread, It would be better in retrospect to have the text of the story posted.

The link is outdated and the story is gone.


Not really. The thread has been dead for years. It moved on to make way for other threads, which is one of things that makes The Lounge so popular. The stuff that multiple people find interesting sticks around and the stuff that people find uninteresting gets pushed down. Eventually the stuff that was interesting gets old and is pushed down as well. That's what keeps a board fresh.

Logical
05-29-2006, 10:14 PM
I always cut and paste the article, if I'm referring to one, more as a courtesy.

It just seems easier than actually following links back and forth.

Also, in the last few years, for a lot of news sites, you have to register or subscribe to view an entire article. I don't want to put people through that hassle just to address something I post.

If you don't source at all, then invariably you get someone calling you on your not sourcing.

This is why I would like an example of a thread that met your example, but did not have the problems I outline above.

*edit* I see your example thread now, I'll give it a gander.
I try to limit it to posting the relevant paragraphs from the link and the link itself. I actually started this out of convenience when we moved to the current version of vBB and the articles unformat themselves when pasted. Before that I would post the entire article if I was creating a thread header, but I came to realize that since the header was on every page that makes the thread cumbersome to scroll through. Really my point was not so much about posting articles (that was someone elses point). I am talking about the posters who are writing disertations. Hell I used to be one of the few who would on occasion do that along with patteeu, now seemingly almost everyone is doing so, what is worse is they are doing it constantly lately.

banyon
05-29-2006, 10:16 PM
Banyon,

I went back 7 months and found a thread that is what I am talking about. By the way it is really hard not to go back that far, it was like 55 thread header pages deep.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=123406&page=4&pp=30


The ideal post is a Big Daddy rant against liberals and gays?

What's so great about this thread?

I really don't understand where you are coming from on this one.

Logical
05-29-2006, 10:18 PM
The ideal post is a Big Daddy rant against liberals and gays?

What's so great about this thread?

I really don't understand where you are coming from on this one.
Check the response posts, which is what I am talking about not the header post. All are short typically 1 or 2 paragraphs or several spaced single line ideas in a single post.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 10:19 PM
The ideal post is a Big Daddy rant against liberals and gays?

What's so great about this thread?

I really don't understand where you are coming from on this one.

No one said anything about an "ideal" post, but that thread is certainly better than much that is here now.

banyon
05-29-2006, 10:26 PM
No one said anything about an "ideal" post, but that thread is certainly better than much that is here now.

Logical's talking about the responses.

If every thread header looked like that one, I don't think I'd bother to check DC. I'd just post about the Chiefs.

listopencil
05-29-2006, 10:33 PM
Logical's talking about the responses.

If every thread header looked like that one, I don't think I'd bother to check DC. I'd just post about the Chiefs.



It depends on whether you check the forum to join in discussion or to gather information. The DC as a collection point for news gathered elsewhere serves a purpose but it is nowhere near as entertaining as when it was a message board.

banyon
05-29-2006, 10:36 PM
Check the response posts, which is what I am talking about not the header post. All are short typically 1 or 2 paragraphs or several spaced single line ideas in a single post.

Those responses don't strike me as particularly more succinct or insightful than responses I see day-to-day in DC 2006.

Adept always posts that way. Uatu looks like he's been gone for a while. Braincase is more of a DC lurker for now. I think that issue in particular (religious discrimination) is one that just kends itself to some posts of that length. Everyone has an opinion on it, and you don't have to be afraid of being wrong on it, because it's largely subjective.

At the bottom of that page it looks like it turns into one-line sniping as well. The exchange between Chief Henry and SaulBadguy is almost identical in form to the one that stevieray and penchief had today.

Maybe it's the posters changing and not the subject matter. I don't see a substantial difference excluding the header. But I get at least the general gist of what you are saying. I'm obviously in a poor position to judge this phenomenon, what with being a n00b and all.

Logical
05-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Those responses don't strike me as particularly more succinct or insightful than responses I see day-to-day in DC 2006.

Adept always posts that way. Uatu looks like he's been gone for a while. Braincase is more of a DC lurker for now. I think that issue in particular (religious discrimination) is one that just kends itself to some posts of that length. Everyone has an opinion on it, and you don't have to be afraid of being wrong on it, because it's largely subjective.

At the bottom of that page it looks like it turns into one-line sniping as well. The exchange between Chief Henry and SaulBadguy is almost identical in form to the one that stevieray and penchief had today.

Maybe it's the posters changing and not the subject matter. I don't see a substantial difference excluding the header. But I get at least the general gist of what you are saying. I'm obviously in a poor position to judge this phenomenon, what with being a n00b and all.

Try this one,
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3229916

you are of course pointing out what I did not want to, which is that many of our good DC posters have abandoned this place. Some call it the great conservative exodus, but it is more than that. I think part of the reason is they have become bored with all the sermonizing going on lately. We no longer debate one or two concepts at a time but instead layer after layer of underlying issues are brought up in a single post.

Logical
05-29-2006, 10:48 PM
It depends on whether you check the forum to join in discussion or to gather information. The DC as a collection point for news gathered elsewhere serves a purpose but it is nowhere near as entertaining as when it was a message board.

Exactly :thumb:

banyon
05-29-2006, 10:56 PM
Try this one,
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3229916

you are of course pointing out what I did not want to, which is that many of our good DC posters have abandoned this place. Some call it the great conservative exodus, but it is more than that. I think part of the reason is they have become bored with all the sermonizing going on lately. We no longer debate one or two concepts at a time but instead layer after layer of underlying issues are brought up in a single post.

It makes sense to me that conservatives would leave the board.

KS/MO is really a pretty conservative area, so the vast majority of posters would naturally have that political disposition.

But if I'd had to defend the inept mistakes of my party over, and over, and over, i'd be pretty sick of it too. It seems like patteeu is the only one with the energy to really do it, and at this stage many have accused him of running some sort of weird experiment rather than actually defending them.

It's kind of analagous to the Royals forum. I'm sure it would be more active if they were worth a s***, but they've been so bad for so long, who wants to keep re-hashing the multiple reasons they suck?

banyon
05-29-2006, 10:56 PM
It depends on whether you check the forum to join in discussion or to gather information. The DC as a collection point for news gathered elsewhere serves a purpose but it is nowhere near as entertaining as when it was a message board.

Can I do both?

listopencil
05-29-2006, 11:03 PM
Can I do both?

Sure, you can do whatever you want. I'd just like to see the DC forum function in the same way as the main one.

WoodDraw
05-29-2006, 11:17 PM
I don't see the big deal. Substance matters more than length. If someone puts effort into writing a long, well thought out post then I'll read it; if not, I skim and go on. No big deal. A thread should start conversation; how it does that shouldn't matter.

Logical
05-29-2006, 11:26 PM
I don't see the big deal. Substance matters more than length. If someone puts effort into writing a long, well thought out post then I'll read it; if not, I skim and go on. No big deal. A thread should start conversation; how it does that shouldn't matter. I have edited the thread post to clear up this misconception. I am not talking about the thread headers but the responses.

WoodDraw
05-29-2006, 11:36 PM
I have edited the thread post to clear up this misconception. I am not talking about the thread headers but the responses.

I get what you are saying now, but you won't have much success asking people to change how they post. There are people I enjoy responding to and people who repeatedly write trash. Everyone has different beliefs and tastes though. I ignore the trash and wait until I find something interesting enough to merit a response.

Logical
05-29-2006, 11:46 PM
I get what you are saying now, but you won't have much success asking people to change how they post. There are people I enjoy responding to and people who repeatedly write trash. Everyone has different beliefs and tastes though. I ignore the trash and wait until I find something interesting enough to merit a response.
I know, I was careful to make it clear I was not asking them to change. I am however, hopeful that some will consider what I have said and break up their responses into more posts that are easier to digest and respond to while remaining clear. I have found myself in the past doing what some are doing and I always try to rein myself in and remember to break the responses up. It is not easy to do, human nature is to get it all out at once, but I have learned that much of your message gets missed when you put too many thoughts in one single post.

Logical
05-30-2006, 09:43 AM
Sure, you can do whatever you want. I'd just like to see the DC forum function in the same way as the main one.

I couldn't agree more.

Logical
05-30-2006, 04:43 PM
:hmmm:No comments from the work week posters. Perhaps it is because they don't have time to write dissertations.

patteeu
05-31-2006, 01:08 AM
I'm really bad at doing this (as you are all, no doubt, aware). I need to work on my brevity and focus a little more. :)

Logical
05-31-2006, 12:40 PM
I'm really bad at doing this (as you are all, no doubt, aware). I need to work on my brevity and focus a little more. :)
:clap: