DT's who's out

[Dark Horse]

We currently have 9 DT's on the roster 4 were on the active roster last year, Dalton, Sims, Browning, Siavii and two were added as veteran free agents Reed and Edwards, plus 3 nfl hopefuls. If only 4 remain on this years roster then more than likely 2 from last years roster are gone. Who are they? My guess is Siavii and Browning are out.

[Hammock Parties]

Sims
Browning
Dalton
Guerrero
Edwards

The rest are OUTTA HEA!

[DaKCMan AP]

People hate on Browning, but he can play multiple positions and, while not spectacular, he's solid. I'd dump Siavii and maybe carry 5 on the active roster.

[htismaqe]

Sims, Browning, and Dalton all stay.

I'd bet that Edwards and Reed lock up the other spots.

[Dark Horse]

People hate on Browning, but he can play multiple positions and, while not spectacular, he's solid. I'd dump Siavii and maybe carry 5 on the active roster.

You have a point on Browning, And he can really run for a 300 pound guy I remember seeing him chasing Tiki Barber down field and he would have caught him before he scored if a team mate hadn't fallen down in front of him. Hey I think I just summed up the chiefs defensive problems.

[StcChief]

Kansas City also signed free agent defensive lineman James Reed to a one-year contract. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Reed, a 6-foot, 286-pound tackle, spent five years with the New York Jets under Herm Edwards, who is now coach of the Chiefs. Reed started in 17 games, recording 176 tackles and six sacks.

Browning
Guerrero
Edwards
Sims

[Dark Horse]

Kansas City also signed free agent defensive lineman James Reed to a one-year contract. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Reed, a 6-foot, 286-pound tackle, spent five years with the New York Jets under Herm Edwards, who is now coach of the Chiefs. Reed started in 17 games, recording 176 tackles and six sacks.

Browning
Guerrero
Edwards
Sims

Are You adding Reed to the list that stays or goes?

[Hammock Parties]

Reed and Guerrero are almost the exact same type of player...except that Guerrero is a rookie. The coaches were pretty impressed with him in mini-camp...he's got some pass-rush skills.

[ck_IN]

I think it's

Reed, Browning, Dalton, Sims, and Edwards. Guerrero if they keep five.

Personally I'd keep Guerrero and dump Sims.

[StcChief]

Reed and Guerrero are almost the exact same type of player...except that Guerrero is a rookie. The coaches were pretty impressed with him in mini-camp...he's got some pass-rush skills.

Reed NFL experience with Jets and Herm......

Guerrero could make it I would like to have both.
Played DE as well.

Somebody gotta go.

Sims could have wore out his welcome now. Pay the cap hit move on.

[StcChief]

Are You adding Reed to the list that stays or goes?

If they keep only 4

Reed
Browning
Guerrero
Edwards

Sims (if they keep 5) Savaii odd men out.

[Rain Man]

You know that Reed will stay. When a coach brings a player from his old team, the coach wants that player.

[CoMoChief]

Edwards, Reed, Sims, Dalton, Browning, Guererro on the PS.

[htismaqe]

Reed and Guerrero are almost the exact same type of player...except that Guerrero is a rookie. The coaches were pretty impressed with him in mini-camp...he's got some pass-rush skills.

Which means Guerrero goes to the PS. Like others said, Herm brought Reed here because he played for him in NY...

[htismaqe]

If they keep only 4

Reed
Browning
Guerrero
Edwards

Sims (if they keep 5) Savaii odd men out.

No way will they keep only 4 after all the injury problems we've had at the position.

And NO WAY they will cut Sims. ZERO chance.

[Dark Horse]

I think Sims will hang around for one more year. Herm will take a shot at motivating him then cut him next year. The sad part is when he finds out he can actually be cut he will probably produce for his next team.

[ck_IN]

<i>And NO WAY they will cut Sims. ZERO chance.</i>

I agree with you. That however doesn't make it any less pathetic.

[htismaqe]

I think Sims will hang around for one more year. Herm will take a shot at motivating him then cut him next year. The sad part is when he finds out he can actually be cut he will probably produce for his next team.

That could very well play out, but it's not likely. The vast majority of free agent defensive tackles never play better for their new team than they did their old. If Ryan Sims never produces here, he'd probably be better off to retire...

[htismaqe]

<i>And NO WAY they will cut Sims. ZERO chance.</i>

I agree with you. That however doesn't make it any less pathetic.

What's pathetic about it? They're not gonna cut our most talented defensive tackle.

The only pathetic thing about it is that we spent the #6 pick on him.

[Dark Horse]

That could very well play out, but it's not likely. The vast majority of free agent defensive tackles never play better for their new team than they did their old. If Ryan Sims never produces here, he'd probably be better off to retire...


I just hope he looks around and sees the competition geting tougher and realizes that it's time to step up or step out.

[ck_IN]

<i>They're not gonna cut our most talented defensive tackle.</i>

That should read 'our potentially most talented ....'

To date he's translated none of that potential to actual on a consistent basis. He's shown a flash here or there but by this point he's pretty much solidified himself as a bust.

Cutting him and replacing him with someone who may not have the pure talent but does have the desire would be the better investment.

I view Sims as Dan Williams minus the one breakout year.

[htismaqe]

<i>They're not gonna cut our most talented defensive tackle.</i>

That should read 'our potentially most talented ....'

To date he's translated none of that potential to actual on a consistent basis. He's shown a flash here or there but by this point he's pretty much solidified himself as a bust.

Cutting him and replacing him with someone who may not have the pure talent but does have the desire would be the better investment.

I view Sims as Dan Williams minus the one breakout year.

Nah, he's our most talented defensive tackle, in terms of both potential AND actual talent.

I guess that, in and of itself, is pathetic.

[MOhillbilly]

What's pathetic about it? They're not gonna cut our most talented defensive tackle.

The only pathetic thing about it is that we spent the #6 pick on him.

ohhh shit dude you know better than that.

come on.

[htismaqe]

ohhh shit dude you know better than that.

come on.

What?

[MOhillbilly]

What?

having a pick not work out isnt anything new. having a player get hurt isnt anything not to be expected,even in multiple years.
doesnt matter if he is a 6 or 16 in the first round we as fans are always pissed when a touted stud doesnt live up to the hype.

Chiefs fans are esp jaded-a drought like ours will do that.


its not his fault he was picked six.
blame The King and his Magic 8 Ball.

[htismaqe]

having a pick not work out isnt anything new. having a player get hurt isnt anything not to be expected,even in multiple years.
doesnt matter if he is a 6 or 16 in the first round we as fans are always pissed when a touted stud doesnt live up to the hype.

Chiefs fans are esp jaded-a drought like ours will do that.

its not his fault he was picked six.
blame The King and his Magic 8 Ball.

Um, that's basically what I said. :D

I don't even really blame Carl. Sims was the concensus best DT available that year.

[MOhillbilly]

ahhh ok.

im just sick of people busting on my boys in the trenches.

it aint easy being the six pic,fat & lazy underachivers.

is chivers a word?

[CoMoChief]

That could very well play out, but it's not likely. The vast majority of free agent defensive tackles never play better for their new team than they did their old. If Ryan Sims never produces here, he'd probably be better off to retire...


I definately think someone would pick him up before he retires. Especially when the guy is only 26 years old.

[htismaqe]

ahhh ok.

im just sick of people busting on my boys in the trenches.

it aint easy being the six pic,fat & lazy underachivers.

is chivers a word?

I've said it many times (and I usually get called an apologist for it)...

This isn't unique to the Chiefs, nor is it unique to Ryan Sims.

Defensive tackles are a unique species, more prone to failure than success.

[htismaqe]

I definately think someone would pick him up before he retires. Especially when the guy is only 26 years old.

I never said someone wouldn't pick him up.

I said the scenario of him getting picked up by another team and actually becoming GOOD is highly unlikely.

[MOhillbilly]

I've said it many times (and I usually get called an apologist for it)...

This isn't unique to the Chiefs, nor is it unique to Ryan Sims.

Defensive tackles are a unique species, more prone to failure than success.

any idea of what the % pass/fail rate is compared to other positions?

[htismaqe]

any idea of what the % pass/fail rate is compared to other positions?

Not really sure.

But I know that the fail rate of DT's picked in the first half of the 1st round is very high. 75% in the year Ryan Sims was picked alone.

I know I heard Jaws or Golic say once that something like 80% of free agent DT's never have their best year AFTER signing a free agent contract.

I think these guys develop bad work ethics early in high school and it just stays with them...

[MOhillbilly]

Not really sure.

But I know that the fail rate of DT's picked in the first half of the 1st round is very high. 75% in the year Ryan Sims was picked alone.

I know I heard Jaws or Golic say once that something like 80% of free agent DT's never have their best year AFTER signing a free agent contract.

I think these guys develop bad work ethics early in high school and it just stays with them...


i could agree w/ that to a point.
Though id also tend to think that the physical makeup of pro size DT has more to do w/ genes than enviroment.

[htismaqe]

i could agree w/ that to a point.
Though id also tend to think that the physical makeup of pro size DT has more to do w/ genes than enviroment.

I know we've talked about this before and I think alot of it has to do with size vs. skill. I know you disagree somewhat, but I don't think I've ever explained this part of it before.

Certainly, I'm not implying that NFL tackles don't need skill to excel.

But when they're in junior high and high school, it's different. They get by using their strength and size alone and they develop poor work habits. For the guys that possess the skill to make it to the NFL, they carry the bad stuff with them...

[Chiefnj]

I could care less who makes it. It's not like the existing group did much of anything. I'd assume the free agents get a spot and then the best of the bottom of the pre-existing barrel of underachievers and has beens.

[Dark Horse]

Not really sure.

But I know that the fail rate of DT's picked in the first half of the 1st round is very high. 75% in the year Ryan Sims was picked alone.

I know I heard Jaws or Golic say once that something like 80% of free agent DT's never have their best year AFTER signing a free agent contract.

I think these guys develop bad work ethics early in high school and it just stays with them...

I think most free agents who have played at a high level for their old teams never see that kind of production again. When a player is at a pro bowl level very often it is because they are in the right sytem.

[htismaqe]

I think most free agents who have played at a high level for their old teams never see that kind of production again. When a player is at a pro bowl level very often it is because they are in the right sytem.

I don't disagree with that, but that's not what I'm talking about.

These guys don't perform at their previous level, despite marginal or even poor performance with their previous team.

[Dark Horse]

I don't disagree with that, but that's not what I'm talking about.

These guys don't perform at their previous level, despite marginal or even poor performance with their previous team.

So you're saying that Drafting DT's much like o linemen wide outs and qb's is a crap shoot at best

[htismaqe]

So you're saying that Drafting DT's much like o linemen wide outs and qb's is a crap shoot at best

The draft, in general, is hit and miss.

I'm saying that drafting a DT in the top 15 of the draft is MORE likely to result in failure than most other positions.

[cmh6476]

rich scanlon
ty law
junior
dan saleameau

[CupidStunt]

I am in the vast minority but I see Junior Siavii on the roster come this time in September. Hopefully I am wrong.