Andrea Yates: NOT GUILTY!

[Saulbadguy]

By reason of insanity.

w-t-f

[Pierce]

Yup. Was watching this and thought the same thing myself. The look on her face...grrr. She knew exactly what she did and is just playing it off.

[Brock]

meme sighting in 3 2 1

[jspchief]

Personally, I don't think insanity should be a defense. If you're f*cked up enough to kill 5 of your own kids, you should be put away forever.

[Donger]

Yeah. They better keep an eye on her: she might do something crazy.

[WilliamTheIrish]

This is her second trial is it not?

[Saulbadguy]

This is her second trial is it not?
Yep.

[BIG_DADDY]

meme sighting in 3 2 1

Remember that stupid man hating gash said it was her husbands fault. ROFL

[BucEyedPea]

For a woman who mutilated herself, tried to commit suicide on several occassions, hallucinated and was on anti-depressants with medically known side effects that induced such violence...I'd have to agree with this verdict.

[jidar]

Well, if ever there was someone who was crazy, it was here. She'll just be in a mental institution for probably the rest of her life.

[Donger]

Okay, this c*nt needs to die.

.

[Saulbadguy]

For a woman who mutilated herself, tried to commit suicide on several occassions, hallucinated and was on anti-depressants with medically known side effects that induced such violence...I'd have to agree with this verdict.
Tried to commit suicide? She is just an attention whore, then.

[WilliamTheIrish]

If Yates is found innocent by reason of insanity, she will be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released — although by law, jurors are not allowed to be told that

[ChiefFan31]

For a woman who mutilated herself, tried to commit suicide on several occassions, hallucinated and was on anti-depressants with medically known side effects that induced such violence...I'd have to agree with this verdict.

Well, if ever there was someone who was crazy, it was here. She'll just be in a mental institution for probably the rest of her life.

Fine, as long as they dont let that dumb bitch out. EVER.

My opinion is that she deserves a short drop and a sudden stop.

[MGRS13]

Personally, I don't think insanity should be a defense. If you're f*cked up enough to kill 5 of your own kids, you should be put away forever.
uh, dude she will be put away forever you know why? Cause shes crazier then a sh#t house rat! I don't think any body ever has to see her again in the free world. Who cares if it's a prison or a maximum security mental hospital?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Personally, I don't think insanity should be a defense. If you're f*cked up enough to kill 5 of your own kids, you should be put away forever.Exactly. This is really upsetting.

[dirk digler]

WOW! I hate this ****ing bitch and how any sane person could say Not Guilty is beyond me

[BIG_DADDY]

I would like to know how many millions the State wasted on this POS. I hate to make it sound so simple but I don't know why it's any more complicated than Kill your own kids = Fish food.

[greg63]

uh, dude she will be put away forever you know why? Cause shes crazier then a sh#t house rat! I don't think any body ever has to see her again in the free world. Who cares if it's a prison or a maximum security mental hospital?


Yeah, but it's cheaper to gas her.

[WilliamTheIrish]

forgot my link

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou060726_ac_yatesverdict.5ffa783.html

[Pitt Gorilla]

I would like to know how many millions the State wasted on this POS. I hate to make it sound so simple but I don't know why it's any more complicated than Kill your own kids = Fish food.Exactly. I've never been a huge fan of the death penalty, but killing your own kids would qualify. What was her reason for killing them?

[Eleazar]

She'll be walking the street in 5 years, proving once again what a joke the american legal system is.

[ck_IN]

<i>Who cares if it's a prison or a maximum security mental hospital?</i>

Because tax dollars are going to have to pay for the upkeep of this waste of oxygen. Instead of putting her in a nuthouse just flat out relase her. But when she's released make sure it's done in an area with a clean line of sight and the day and time are well publicized. I'll take my place in the snipers lottery.

1 bullet = 1 solution for this waste of skin.

[WilliamTheIrish]

uh, dude she will be put away forever you know why? Cause shes crazier then a sh#t house rat! I don't think any body ever has to see her again in the free world. Who cares if it's a prison or a maximum security mental hospital?

That remains to be seen.

[jspchief]

She'll be walking the street in 5 years, proving once again what a joke the american legal system is.Yep. Under hospital supervision, she'll get proper medication. At some point they'll determine she's better, and she'll be back on the streets, one missed dose from psychosis.

[Demonpenz]

I heard she had to sell her hiesman trophy to pay for the laywers

[BIG_DADDY]

Exactly. I've never been a huge fan of the death penalty, but killing your own kids would qualify. What was her reason for killing them?

I think she said god told her to do it but I could be wrong.

[BIG_DADDY]

Yep. Under hospital supervision, she'll get proper medication. At some point they'll determine she's better, and she'll be back on the streets, one missed dose from psychosis.

And they won't even make sure she doesn't have the ability to have kids again. I'm betting she does.

[hawkchief]

There can't be a more heinous crime than killing your own helpless children, unless she molested them first. The verdict does sound like BS, but I can't imagine a worse hell than knowing every day when you woke up that you personally took the lives of 5 precioius kids that were you own flesh and blood, with the very hands you use throughout the day.

[memyselfI]

This is the correct verdict and I've said so from the beginning. It's a shame something this horrible had to happen for Andrea Yates to finally get the help she needs. :shake:

[jspchief]

This is the correct verdict and I've said so from the beginning. It's a shame something this horrible had to happen for Andrea Yates to finally get the help she needs. :shake:I hope she drowns you next.

[memyselfI]

For a woman who mutilated herself, tried to commit suicide on several occassions, hallucinated and was on anti-depressants with medically known side effects that induced such violence...I'd have to agree with this verdict.

Ditto. The woman had a long history of documented mental illness. It's not like she cooked up an illness as a defense. She was a ticking time bomb and unfortunately her children paid the price for her lack of getting proper medical treatment.

[ck_IN]

The only help Ms. Yates needs is in meeting her maker. The bitch should be dead yesterday.

Five kids were brutally drowned at her hands and she has no excuse. This verdict is a joke and an indictment of the whole legal system. The thought that a piece of filth like this can get away with it sickens me. It's even worse then knowing a piece of filth like OJ got away with it. At least he didn't kill 5 kids and then hide behind insanity.

[Amnorix]

I haven't followed this story too closely, but what I just read (prompted by this thread) strongly suggests that she is mentally ill (see next post).

Essentially, what you guys want isn't a different verdict, which seems correct, but rather a change in the legal system, so that Not Guilty by reason of Insanity isn't a valid verdict.

That's fine, certainly, and I understand. This has been debated forever. I remember an episode of Quincy, that old show with Jack Klugman, that focused on trying to change the system to "Guilty, But Insane" with a different punishment structure.

Would probably have to say that I agree with the idea of a change. The basic tenets of our inherited English criminal legal system, however, is based on two necessary elements -- the act (actus reus) and the intent to commit the act (mens rea). Where there is insanity, you can't have the mens rea to commit the unlawful crime, and therefore you are Not Guilty by reason of Insanity.

That's the theory, anyway, for what it is worth.

[memyselfI]

The only help Ms. Yates needs is in meeting her maker. The bitch should be dead yesterday.

Five kids were brutally drowned at her hands and she has no excuse. This verdict is a joke and an indictment of the whole legal system. The thought that a piece of filth like this can get away with it sickens me. It's even worse then knowing a piece of filth like OJ got away with it. At least he didn't kill 5 kids and then hide behind insanity.

This verdict would have happened years ago if the prosecutor's witness had not lied. His testimony gave AY a premeditated state. That is why the conviction was thrown out and a new trial was granted.

[Amnorix]

Here's the article, and the relevant parts:

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

Insanity began to surface in about 1996. (four years before murders)

"On June 16 1999, Andrea called Rusty and begged him to come home. He found her shaking involuntarily and chewing on her fingers. The next day, she was hospitalized after she tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of pills."

"Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children because she felt they were eating too much. She thought there were video cameras in the ceilings and said that the characters on television were talking to her and the children. She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. On July 20, Andrea put a knife to her neck and begged her husband to let her die."

"In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol. On November 30, 2000, Mary was born. Andrea was coping but on March 12, her father died and immediately her mental state digressed. She stopped talking, refused liquids, mutilated herself, and would not feed Mary. She also frantically read the Bible."

"By the end of March Andrea returned to a different hospital. Her psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist."

[WilliamTheIrish]

This verdict would have happened years ago if the prosecutor's witness had not lied. His testimony gave AY a premeditated state. That is why the conviction was thrown out and a new trial was granted.

Remember what he lied about?

[ck_IN]

As I recall the witness lied about whether he did some work for a TV show that featured a similar story line.

There's no way that translates into her actions. Should he have did the work for the TV show with her case in its state? No. Did it make a flips worth of difference as to her guilt? HELL NO.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Seems to me she got lots of help. But it was shunned.

Oh well.

[memyselfI]

Remember what he lied about?

He was a contributor to the Law and Order writing team. He testified that she had likely seen an episode which a woman drowned her children, plead NGBROI, and 'got off.'

There was never such an episode of Law and Order.

[memyselfI]

Seems to me she got lots of help. But it was shunned.

Oh well.

If it wasn't the right help then it wouldn't matter how much she got.

[Amnorix]

As I recall the witness lied about whether he did some work for a TV show that featured a similar story line.

There's no way that translates into her actions. Should he have did the work for the TV show with her case in its state? No. Did it make a flips worth of difference as to her guilt? HELL NO.

Not that you likely care, but as I was saying above, "guilt" has nothing to do with "did you do it" in this case. It's "did you do it and did you do it with the necessary mental state."

If you're buggernuts, then the American legal system has a different way of handling you, than if you're not.

We can argue whether the SYSTEM should be this way, but I think all in all the jury probably reached the right verdict. Remember that 12 people, just like you and me, sat there and heard all the evidence, heard about these horrible crimes, heard bout her mental capacity, then heard the judge's instructions, and declared her not guilty by reason of insanity.

[WilliamTheIrish]

If it wasn't the right help then it wouldn't matter how much she got.

It could have been and probably was the right help. Then it would have mattered.

Oh well.

[jspchief]

Here's the article, and the relevant parts:

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

Insanity began to surface in about 1996. (four years before murders)

"On June 16 1999, Andrea called Rusty and begged him to come home. He found her shaking involuntarily and chewing on her fingers. The next day, she was hospitalized after she tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of pills."

"Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children because she felt they were eating too much. She thought there were video cameras in the ceilings and said that the characters on television were talking to her and the children. She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. On July 20, Andrea put a knife to her neck and begged her husband to let her die."

"In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol. On November 30, 2000, Mary was born. Andrea was coping but on March 12, her father died and immediately her mental state digressed. She stopped talking, refused liquids, mutilated herself, and would not feed Mary. She also frantically read the Bible."

"By the end of March Andrea returned to a different hospital. Her psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist."WTF? There's enough stupidity in this case to send several people to jail.

I'm not sure who's more f*cked in the head. Her, her stupid husband that kept knocking her up, or the idiot doctor that let the crazy bitch loose.

[memyselfI]

Not that you likely care, but as I was saying above, "guilt" has nothing to do with "did you do it" in this case. It's "did you do it and did you do it with the necessary mental state."

If you're buggernuts, then the American legal system has a different way of handling you, than if you're not.

We can argue whether the SYSTEM should be this way, but I think all in all the jury probably reached the right verdict. Remember that 12 people, just like you and me, sat there and heard all the evidence, heard about these horrible crimes, heard bout her mental capacity, then heard the judge's instructions, and declared her not guilty by reason of insanity.

And knowing the likely reaction to the verdict, I can't imagine any group of 12 people more wanting than to find one guilty.

[WilliamTheIrish]

WTF? There's enough stupidity in this case to send several people to jail.

I'm not sure who's more f*cked in the head. Her, her stupid husband that kept knocking her up, or the idiot doctor that let the crazy bitch loose.

Thanks for kicking the door open for you-know-who

[Amnorix]

WTF? There's enough stupidity in this case to send several people to jail.

I'm not sure who's more f*cked in the head. Her, her stupid husband that kept knocking her up, or the idiot doctor that let the crazy bitch loose.


One would think/hope that the idiot husband would see that she wasn't coping very well, and that MORE children weren't the right answer. And yes, the doctor shouldn't exactly get a Nobel prize for this diagnosis! :banghead:

[memyselfI]

WTF? There's enough stupidity in this case to send several people to jail.

I'm not sure who's more f*cked in the head. Her, her stupid husband that kept knocking her up, or the idiot doctor that let the crazy bitch loose.

I've stated for YEARS that Rusty should be held criminally responsible as well. The doctor should have lost his license.

[Amnorix]

And knowing the likely reaction to the verdict, I can't imagine any group of 12 people more wanting than to find one guilty.

Juries, as a rule, are very conscientious, and take things very seriously, and try to follow the judge's instructions. It's really quite an amazing thing how well the jury system works.

[PunkinDrublic]

This is clearly a case of gender privalage. No way a man gets this many chances to be proven insane. Feminists want equal rights but you don't hear them bitching when it works in their favor.

[Amnorix]

I've stated for YEARS that Rusty should be held criminally responsible as well. The doctor should have lost his license.

Rusty sounds like a real dumb f**k, but there's no criminal responsibility for wanting children, or not paying attention to your spouse, or not getting the right medical help or whatever.

He lost his 5 kids. I think that's more than punishment enough for whatever dumb-assery he performed prior to their death.

Doctor losing license -- possible. Depends on how bad a job he did. Of course it LOOKS ridiculously bad, but at the time, if he didn't have *enough* warning that she was going to go homicidal, then you can't hold him responsible for her going off the deep end.

[Amnorix]

This is clearly a case of gender privalage. No way a man gets this many chances to be proven insane. Feminists want equal rights but you don't hear them bitching when it works in their favor.


You won't find NOW campaigning on behalf of Ms. Yates, you can bet on that.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I've stated for YEARS that Rusty should be held criminally responsible as well. The doctor should have lost his license.

Criminally responsible for what?

[jspchief]

I've stated for YEARS that Rusty should be held criminally responsible as well. The doctor should have lost his license.If being stupid was a crime, he's a felon.

But I find it more than a little ironic that you're glad "she finally got help", yet think he's criminally responsible.

[Donger]

You won't find NOW campaigning on behalf of Ms. Yates, you can bet on that.

http://www.now.org/press/04-01/09-06.html

[Eleazar]

Criminally responsible for what?

Posession of a penis.

[Inspector]

I think she said god told her to do it but I could be wrong.

Dang it God!!!!

Stop that!!

[BIG_DADDY]

I've stated for YEARS that Rusty should be held criminally responsible as well. The doctor should have lost his license.

I am sure Stupidity = Malice in your eyes as long as it's men we are refering to.

[jspchief]

Posession of a penis.That was hit into orbit.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Dang it God!!!!

Stop that!!
That brings up a good question: What do you do when you think God is telling you to do something "crazy?" See Abraham.

[BIG_DADDY]

Dang it God!!!!

Stop that!!

I gotta remember that if I got caught killing someone. It was gods will he told me so. Kind of sounds like something one of Denise's freedom fighters might say.

[BIG_DADDY]

I am sure Stupidity = Malice in your eyes as long as it's white men we are refering to.

Fixed it.

[Donger]

So, let's see. Here's Texas' definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

She waited until her husband left for work to kill her kids, but she didn't know it was wrong.

She put a sheet over the kids after she killed them, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Shortly after killing her kids, she called 911, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Did I miss something?

[BIG_DADDY]

So, let's see. Here's Texas' definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

She waited until her husband left for work to kill her kids, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

She put a sheet over the kids after she killed them, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

Shortly after killing her kids, she called 911, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

Did I miss something?

Yea Denise says it's her white husbands fault.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Yea Denise says it's her white husbands fault.Honestly, BD, just let it go. There's no reason to obsess over her perspective.

[BIG_DADDY]

Honestly, BD, just let it go. There's no reason to obsess over her perspective.

It's funny. ROFL

[Frazod]

Our legal system = f#cked beyond repair

:shake:

[Fish]

So, let's see. Here's Texas' definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

She waited until her husband left for work to kill her kids, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

She put a sheet over the kids after she killed them, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

Shortly after killing her kids, she called 911, but was she didn't know it was wrong.

Did I miss something?

That's enough for me..... lead her to the gallows....

[dirk digler]

So, let's see. Here's Texas' definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

She waited until her husband left for work to kill her kids, but she didn't know it was wrong.

She put a sheet over the kids after she killed them, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Shortly after killing her kids, she called 911, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Did I miss something?

Yep. Digusting in my opinion but apparently it is not new to Texas. They just said on TV that in the last 5 years at least 2-3 cases have returned Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity in Texas where a mother has either killed or seriously injured their own children.

We should give Texas back to the Mexicans.

[greg63]

That's enough for me..... lead her to the gallows....


gallows, chamber, chair, firing squad, injection.....whatever.

[Baby Lee]

Here's the article, and the relevant parts:

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

Insanity began to surface in about 1996. (four years before murders)

"On June 16 1999, Andrea called Rusty and begged him to come home. He found her shaking involuntarily and chewing on her fingers. The next day, she was hospitalized after she tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of pills."

"Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children because she felt they were eating too much. She thought there were video cameras in the ceilings and said that the characters on television were talking to her and the children. She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. On July 20, Andrea put a knife to her neck and begged her husband to let her die."

"In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol. On November 30, 2000, Mary was born. Andrea was coping but on March 12, her father died and immediately her mental state digressed. She stopped talking, refused liquids, mutilated herself, and would not feed Mary. She also frantically read the Bible."

"By the end of March Andrea returned to a different hospital. Her psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist."
I'd just add, remember the obverse of the mens rea requirement. You can generally be batshit insane, but if you were able to comprehend the quality of your actions at the time of commission, your general shitty sad-sack state isn't relevant.
I fear that the jury was swayed by historical evidence of strange behavior into losing focus on the evidence of premeditation and clarity in the course of the murders [waiting for hubby to leave, calling 911, etc.].

[BucEyedPea]

Fine, as long as they dont let that dumb bitch out. EVER.

I agree that she is still a risk to society, is criminally insane and should not be outside an institution.

[Bugeater]

http://www.now.org/press/04-01/09-06.html
Thanks. You now owe me $6 for my lunch that I just puked back up.

[Chief Henry]

I gotta remember that if I got caught killing someone. It was gods will he told me so. Kind of sounds like something one of Denise's freedom fighters might say.

The freedom fighters will be standing up infront of bulldozers soon.

[memyselfI]

Andrea commited this crime. She is the one who murdered her children there is no doubt about who is responsible for the actual act of killing them.

Where I think Rusty should have been prosecuted is under a 'wreckless endangerment of a child(ren)' or some similiar law that has been used to prosecute mothers of children who leave their kids with abusive boyfriends and they end up dead. Rusty was told that Andrea should not have anymore children because to do so might bring about psychosis. Instead of heeding the Doctor's advise he persuaded her to have another child. And, when she showed signs of cracking he did not make sure those kids were safe.

Clearly, the best thing AY could have done was kill herself. But she instead chose to kill her kids. What father (or mother if the situation is reversed) knowing his wife is suicidal leaves their kids with her unattended when she is showing signs of mental illness? Any person who knowingly does this is playing with fire and someone, usually not them, will get burned.

[memyselfI]

Yep. Digusting in my opinion but apparently it is not new to Texas. They just said on TV that in the last 5 years at least 2-3 cases have returned Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity in Texas where a mother has either killed or seriously injured their own children.

We should give Texas back to the Mexicans.

No thanks, Mexico is already fugged up enough...

You do know that one of the prosecution expert witnesses testified FOR the defense in at least one of those cases. I believe it was after AY's case.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Where I think Rusty should have been prosecuted is under a 'wreckless endangerment of a child(ren)'

Thank you.

Now, can you tell me where you obtained your law degree?

[ChiefFripp]

This is the country of O.J. and M.J., I'm not shocked other than the fact this woman had neither money or fame on her side.

[RedNFeisty]

The bitch should be shot in the head that would solve her mental problems.

Not to mention the Doctors should be held responsible at some point. You mean to tell me after all the evaluations that were done on her they did not know she was psychotic?

Oh, and the husband Rusty, he has some issues himself if he didn’t think anything was wrong and yes, I think he should have been charged with abiding a criminal act. His wife tries to kill herself twice and it is nothing for him to leave the kids with her, come on, the dude is also ****ed in the head.

[BIG_DADDY]

Andrea commited this crime. She is the one who murdered her children there is no doubt about who is responsible for the actual act of killing them.

Where I think Rusty should have been prosecuted is under a 'wreckless endangerment of a child(ren)' or some similiar law that has been used to prosecute mothers of children who leave their kids with abusive boyfriends and they end up dead. Rusty was told that Andrea should not have anymore children because to do so might bring about psychosis. Instead of heeding the Doctor's advise he persuaded her to have another child. And, when she showed signs of cracking he did not make sure those kids were safe.

Clearly, the best thing AY could have done was kill herself. But she instead chose to kill her kids. What father (or mother if the situation is reversed) knowing his wife is suicidal leaves their kids with her unattended when she is showing signs of mental illness? Any person who knowingly does this is playing with fire and someone, usually not them, will get burned.

OK, I actually agree with this. As I recall though during the first case all you did was talk about the husband. If this is truly your position then I would agree.

[mikey23545]

WTF? There's enough stupidity in this case to send several people to jail.

I'm not sure who's more f*cked in the head. Her, her stupid husband that kept knocking her up, or the idiot doctor that let the crazy bitch loose.

Fine, fry her and hubbie....

[mikey23545]

This is the correct verdict and I've said so from the beginning. It's a shame something this horrible had to happen for Andrea Yates to finally get the help she needs. :shake:

WTF has to happen before you get the help <i>you</i> need?

[jiveturkey]

Andrea commited this crime. She is the one who murdered her children there is no doubt about who is responsible for the actual act of killing them.

Where I think Rusty should have been prosecuted is under a 'wreckless endangerment of a child(ren)' or some similiar law that has been used to prosecute mothers of children who leave their kids with abusive boyfriends and they end up dead. Rusty was told that Andrea should not have anymore children because to do so might bring about psychosis. Instead of heeding the Doctor's advise he persuaded her to have another child. And, when she showed signs of cracking he did not make sure those kids were safe.

Clearly, the best thing AY could have done was kill herself. But she instead chose to kill her kids. What father (or mother if the situation is reversed) knowing his wife is suicidal leaves their kids with her unattended when she is showing signs of mental illness? Any person who knowingly does this is playing with fire and someone, usually not them, will get burned.

OK, I actually agree with this. As I recall though during the first case all you did was talk about the husband. If this is truly your position then I would agree.

Holy ****!

Is everyone OK? I think that the planet may have stopped spinning for a minute or two.
ROFL

[Baby Lee]

Holy ****!

Is everyone OK? I think that the planet may have stopped spinning for a minute or two.
ROFL
When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.
Another angel came and stood over the altar, having a golden censer. Much incense was given to him, that he should add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.
The smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.
The angel took the censer, and he filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it on the earth. There followed thunders, sounds, lightnings, and an earthquake.

[BIG_DADDY]

Holy ****!

Is everyone OK? I think that the planet may have stopped spinning for a minute or two.
ROFL

She likes cleaning her shit up later when she looks stupid. She has done it time and time again whether it was her position on prostitution, freedom fighters or Andrea Yates husband. Her motivations all come out in the end though as she resorts back to her real feelings which you catch bits and pieces of from time to time.

[stevieray]

So, let's see. Here's Texas' definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

She waited until her husband left for work to kill her kids, but she didn't know it was wrong.

She put a sheet over the kids after she killed them, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Shortly after killing her kids, she called 911, but she didn't know it was wrong.

Did I miss something?

She was sorry five times in a row.

IMO, there is no way she didn't know what she was doing. You don't go after your second third and fourth kid after you just killed your first child unless you have a heart of stone.

[vailpass]

Is it just me or is it hard for anyone else to think about what happened, I mean the acts that took place step-by-step, and not damn near cry?

[WilliamTheIrish]

He was a contributor to the Law and Order writing team. He testified that she had likely seen an episode which a woman drowned her children, plead NGBROI, and 'got off.'

There was never such an episode of Law and Order.

It just hit me. I also thought I'd seen an episode with this very theme on L&O.

But it was on the HBO show OZ They had the crazy broad that ran her car into a lake and watched them drown.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Is it just me or is it hard for anyone else to think about what happened, I mean the acts that took place step-by-step, and not damn near cry?

It make sme want to puke, not cry.

Medical Examiner's Report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20060628/cr_ct/expertandreayateschildrensufferedslowdeathattheirmothershands)



Harris County Medical Examiner Luis A. Sanchez testified Wednesday that 7-year-old Noah, the oldest of the Yates children drowned that day in 2001, struggled so hard in the tub that his small fists remained stiff and over his head even several hours later. Noah had extensive rigormortis, or stiffness, because of intense movements right before his death, Sanchez told jurors.

Noah also had deep bruises consistent with someone holding him down hard, as did 6-month-old Mary and 5-year-old John, Sanchez testified.

He also said their brains, which were significantly heavier than normal children their ages, indicate they had been held under water for minutes rather than seconds. The 9 inches of water was murky from the youngsters' bodily secretions, Sanchez said.

[BIG_DADDY]

It just hit me. I also thought I'd seen an episode with this very theme on L&O.

But it was on the HBO show OZ They had the crazy broad that ran her car into a lake and watched them drown.

They did a show on Court TV on that. I don't know how you let something that would do that live but maybe it's just me.

[vailpass]

It make sme want to puke, not cry.

Medical Examiner's Report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20060628/cr_ct/expertandreayateschildrensufferedslowdeathattheirmothershands)

I couldn't finish reading that. I'm the father of 3 young boys. My God.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I couldn't finish reading that. I'm the father of 3 young boys. My God.

I'm sorry I did that. But after so long, people tend to forget what this woman actually did.

[Archie F. Swin]

Alright...I get a new loyal viewer!

:rolleyes:

[OldTownChief]

The more I read about this, the more pissed I get. I say, cut her ****ing legs and arms off, let her heal up, then throw her ****ing ass in the street and let people walk by and shit all over her c@nt ass.

[The Red Sea]

I'd love to go into a whole really Deep conversation over the insane or not insane..Jail or crazy house.

Get all philosophical on your ass'es...But..
Now that I'm 39 Father of two boys all I'd like to see happen to that bitch is to be Strangled REAL slow with huge posters of all her kids just in front of her..a video of the kids playing near by & when she almost dead bring her back for just a minute as she thinks she might be being saved you look at her & say you think I'm CRAZY BITCH?!?!
& give the final minute needed as you name her kids out loud!

Hmmm I've become Soo protective of my kids since being a father.

To those of you who are not parents I can NOT get you to even understand the protection level you enter for your children.
I Even get that way for other kids if there nearby injured or whatever.

My blood boils when I see a kid getting abused now.
They're Soo innocent & depend on us & our trust so DAMn much!
Imagine the kids last thoughts!!

Ummm soooo anyway you see why I'm not going to get all philosophical or Deep on you...cause Frankly I just want to reach thru the TV screen & choke her & her Husband...anyone who Certainly SAW this coming!

I need a beer now...

[Lonewolf Ed]

If it wasn't the right help then it wouldn't matter how much she got.

So, it is better to kill someone if you are a psycho than if you are not a psycho?

"I just got so pissed off, I hit him in the head with a shovel!" You must die for your crime.

"I kill because the voices decree it thus, nyahahahahhaaa!" Oh, you poor poor thing, here's some nice meds for you and your therapist will be seeing you soon.

Horsepiss!

[Imon Yourside]

So, it is better to kill someone if you are a psycho than if you are not a psycho?

"I just got so pissed off, I hit him in the head with a shovel!" You must die for your crime.

"I kill because the voices decree it thus, nyahahahahhaaa!" Oh, you poor poor thing, here's some nice meds for you and your therapist will be seeing you soon.

Horsepiss!

Exactly Insanity should be treated the same or harsher than a sane murder, because there is no chance of reform. I really don't want this Bitch or any of her relatives within a planet of me. She was reading the Bible..haha and she came away with this as a solution? was it the Satanic Bible? Scuse me i have to go hug my son after this garbage.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It make sme want to puke, not cry.

Medical Examiner's Report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20060628/cr_ct/expertandreayateschildrensufferedslowdeathattheirmothershands)It really bothers me. It makes me incredibly sad/angry at the same time. That chick should have to physically suffer.

[memyselfI]

It make sme want to puke, not cry.

Medical Examiner's Report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20060628/cr_ct/expertandreayateschildrensufferedslowdeathattheirmothershands)


It is even more heartbreaking when you realize this could have been prevented...

by any number of people and it wasn't. Her husband, her parents, her doctors, her 'religion' ALL failed those children as badly as she did. She is the only one suffering the punishment of the massive failure of a large group of knowing accomplices.

She should be forced to spend the rest of her life in an institution. She is not to be trusted with human life, not even her own, again. She has shown the inability to cope with such and as such she needs to be confined to a place where she can get treatment and live closely monitored but never truly free.

I suspect she'll end up committing suicide at some point for even if she does 'recover' from the psychosis/depression the truth (five dead children) that awaits her would be enough to destroy any sane person who wasn't responsible let alone a crazy person who was.

[Ultra Peanut]

Saturday, April 22nd 1899 Page 4
Wolverine Waifs
A sad suicide was committed Tuesday Morning at Menominie
Mrs. Chas. Peterson, a woman about 30 years of age, the wife of a kind husband and mother of two small children cut her throat from, ear to ear with a bread knife, severing the windpipe and esophagus. Three doctors worked on her nearly four hours but could not save her life. The woman had been in a diseased state of mind ever since the birth of a babe last fall.

[bkkcoh]

By reason of insanity.

w-t-f

That is why it should be Guilty, but insane.

2 to 4 years in a head hospital, and she is declared cured... :banghead:

Damn judicial system....

[Fish]

IHer husband, her parents, her doctors, her 'religion' ALL failed those children as badly as she did. She is the only one suffering the punishment of the massive failure of a large group of knowing accomplices.

Although I understand what you're trying to get at, I really don't agree. This kind of thinking has been all too common lately in the aftermath of a tragedy. Yes it is true if the doctor would have done this or this, or if her husband would have done this differently, maybe there would have been a different outcome....

But the truth is, the doctor didn't hold those children underwater while they fought for life against the person that brought them into the world and cared for them their entire lives. The husband didn't grab the next child and the next and drag them to the bathtub. She did this. And to blame someone else simply because they "could" have stepped in and stopped her from doing this is completely void at this point.

And as far as her insane plea.... I'm really getting tired of hearing "but she's crazy, she's insane, it wasn't her fault she's mentally unfit". I don't think her mental state should matter one bit at this point. Crazy or not, she took 5 lives that would be here today if not for her decisions. If she's actually that crazy, if she's truly insane to the point that human life loses all value and she doesn't know right from wrong, then what purpose does it serve to keep her alive? By the definition of her insanity, she should not even realize what's going on when society takes her life for the greater good of all. But something tells me she knows exactly what's going on.....

I know my views on it probably aren't typical, but I also know what's happening now is not morally just. And the worst thing about it, is now that she got away with it... the next person that drowns their kids in the bathtub is going to have to get the same treatment.... due to the fact that they let Andrea Yates live. And the cycle continues....

[stevieray]

She knew exactly what would happen when she put those kids in the bathtub.

" I picked up the gun, loaded it, pointed it at someone, fired it, but didn't know it would kill them"

[Ultra Peanut]

She knew exactly what would happen when she put those kids in the bathtub. Sure thing, Mr. Cruise.

[vailpass]

She knew exactly what would happen when she put those kids in the bathtub.

" I picked up the gun, loaded it, pointed it at someone, fired it, but didn't know it would kill them"

Yep. The only people who would argue with that are other insane people.

[memyselfI]

That is why it should be Guilty, but insane.

2 to 4 years in a head hospital, and she is declared cured... :banghead:

Damn judicial system....

Agreed. This is the exact verdict for this case. As such, she should not qualify for the death penalty and should have to spend her life in some type of institution which deals with homicidal psychopaths. I'm not sure the prison system is it. But then she should never be able to walk the streets a free woman again.

I think the insanity part of her case spares her the death penalty but nothing else.

[BIG_DADDY]

Although I understand what you're trying to get at, I really don't agree. This kind of thinking has been all too common lately in the aftermath of a tragedy. Yes it is true if the doctor would have done this or this, or if her husband would have done this differently, maybe there would have been a different outcome....

But the truth is, the doctor didn't hold those children underwater while they fought for life against the person that brought them into the world and cared for them their entire lives. The husband didn't grab the next child and the next and drag them to the bathtub. She did this. And to blame someone else simply because they "could" have stepped in and stopped her from doing this is completely void at this point.

And as far as her insane plea.... I'm really getting tired of hearing "but she's crazy, she's insane, it wasn't her fault she's mentally unfit". I don't think her mental state should matter one bit at this point. Crazy or not, she took 5 lives that would be here today if not for her decisions. If she's actually that crazy, if she's truly insane to the point that human life loses all value and she doesn't know right from wrong, then what purpose does it serve to keep her alive? By the definition of her insanity, she should not even realize what's going on when society takes her life for the greater good of all. But something tells me she knows exactly what's going on.....

I know my views on it probably aren't typical, but I also know what's happening now is not morally just. And the worst thing about it, is now that she got away with it... the next person that drowns their kids in the bathtub is going to have to get the same treatment.... due to the fact that they let Andrea Yates live. And the cycle continues....

Which is why it is assinine for her to call them accomplices.

[memyselfI]

I know my views on it probably aren't typical, but I also know what's happening now is not morally just. And the worst thing about it, is now that she got away with it... the next person that drowns their kids in the bathtub is going to have to get the same treatment.... due to the fact that they let Andrea Yates live. And the cycle continues....

Just how many bath tub drownings have we had since she did this horrible deed? Probably alot less than fatal beatings by crackhead or redneck boyfriends.

She is not a trendsetter nor is she an icon for distressed and resentful mothers everywhere. :rolleyes: She does represent a terrible picture of mental health not being taken seriously. If she had cancer would her husband have left her at home puking in bed and in pain while five small children ran around the house unattended?

Because this was her MENTAL health her state of illness is somehow deemed her fault and less critical than that previously mentioned cancer patient. Her inability to stay on her meds was not a sign of weakness but rather a normal part of her illness. It happens with most depressed people because they want to believe they've 'beat it' when they start to feel better and they stop taking meds...see Barrett Robbins.

The murder of children will continue as long as people unfit to procreate and raise children are allowed to do so. Personally, I think Andrea Yates should be the poster child for the right to an abortion. This is one person who should have never had one child let alone five.

[BIG_DADDY]

Just how many bath tub drownings have we had since she did this horrible deed? Probably alot less than fatal beatings by crackhead or redneck boyfriends.

She is not a trendsetter nor is she an icon for distressed and resentful mothers everywhere. :rolleyes: She does represent a terrible picture of mental health not being taken seriously. If she had cancer would her husband have left her at home puking in bed and in pain while five small children ran around the house unattended?

Because this was her MENTAL health her state of illness is somehow deemed her fault and less critical than that previously mentioned cancer patient. Her inability to stay on her meds was not a sign of weakness but rather a normal part of her illness. It happens with most depressed people because they want to believe they've 'beat it' when they start to feel better and they stop taking meds...see Barrett Robbins.

The murder of children will continue as long as people unfit to procreate and raise children are allowed to do so. Personally, I think Andrea Yates should be the poster child for the right to an abortion. This is one person who should have never had one child let alone five.

Immediately compares to rednecks? WTF That's what I like about Denise if you look at enough of her posts her true hatred and who it's for always comes out. WHITE MALES.

[vailpass]

Immediately compares to rednecks? WTF That's what I like about Denise if you look at enough of her posts her true hatred and who it's for always comes out. WHITE MALES.

That's because she couldn't get one to marry her. She finally gave up and removed the pork chop that was hanging around her neck. That opened the door for allah to walk in.

[Simplex3]

This is the correct verdict and I've said so from the beginning. It's a shame something this horrible had to happen for Andrea Yates to finally get the help she needs. :shake:
The help she needs is a bullet to the brain.

I don't understand what it is about your kind that causes you to assign victim status TO THE F**KING CRIMINAL!

[bkkcoh]

The help she needs is a bullet to the brain.

I don't understand what it is about your kind that causes you to assign victim status TO THE F**KING CRIMINAL!

She is meme, and a bleeding heart liberal. :cuss: :p

[BIG_DADDY]

She is meme, and a bleeding heart liberal. :cuss: :p

It's more like why blame her when you can blame it on the white males in her life.

[bkkcoh]

Agreed. This is the exact verdict for this case. As such, she should not qualify for the death penalty and should have to spend her life in some type of institution which deals with homicidal psychopaths. I'm not sure the prison system is it. But then she should never be able to walk the streets a free woman again.

I think the insanity part of her case spares her the death penalty but nothing else.


I think that you missed my point. She would only get 2 - 4 years and then pronounced well. With it being not guilty, she would be released, right?

But if there was a possibility of being guilty, but insane, she would still get the treatment and the jail time.

[bkkcoh]

It's more like why blame her when you can blame it on the white males in her life.

Yeap, putting the responsibility on everyone elses shoulders but hers....

[memyselfI]

I think that you missed my point. She would only get 2 - 4 years and then pronounced well. With it being not guilty, she would be released, right?

But if there was a possibility of being guilty, but insane, she would still get the treatment and the jail time.

I think you missed mine...

I agreed with your point. I said she should get the jail time as well.

I don't think she needs to be in a max security prison but she needs to be off the streets. Again, her insanity spares her from the chair but not from being incarcerated.

[memyselfI]

The help she needs is a bullet to the brain.

I don't understand what it is about your kind that causes you to assign victim status TO THE F**KING CRIMINAL!

She is a victim...

she is also a criminal.

There is no either/or about this case. She is clearly BOTH.

[Simplex3]

She is a victim...

she is also a criminal.

There is no either/or about this case. She is clearly BOTH.
So who is the criminal that forced her to be crazy? Oh, that's right, NOBODY. She was crazy all by herself.

She isn't a victim of s**t. She's just a crazy bitch that you feel sorry for. Sorry, but I'm not buying any of it. My estrogen supply is all used up.

[memyselfI]

That's because she couldn't get one to marry her. She finally gave up and removed the pork chop that was hanging around her neck. That opened the door for allah to walk in.

Got a proposal from a white guy. Said no thanks. He was not nearly as, uh, er, um, gifted as the one I married...

That's all I'll say.

ROFL

[Simplex3]

Got a proposal from a white guy. Said no thanks. He was not nearly as, uh, er, um, gifted as the one I married...

That's all I'll say.

ROFL
He didn't have access to as many AK-47's and pipe bombs?

[memyselfI]

So who is the criminal that forced her to be crazy? Oh, that's right, NOBODY. She was crazy all by herself.

She isn't a victim of s**t. She's just a crazy bitch that you feel sorry for. Sorry, but I'm not buying any of it. My estrogen supply is all used up.

Don't buy it. You weren't on the jury and didn't have to. What she did was a terrible, horrible, unexcusable thing. She also happened to be insane when she did it.

The point being if she had been well she likely would not have killed those kids. She was the 'model' mother when she was well. It's not like she had a history of abusing her kids...on the contrary.

[BIG_DADDY]

Got a proposal from a white guy. Said no thanks. He was not nearly as, uh, er, um, gifted as the one I married...

That's all I'll say.

ROFL

Like you ever would have posted any different no matter what was happening in reality. Your hatred for white males oozes out of your pours all the time there is no point in trying to deny it.

[memyselfI]

He didn't have access to as many AK-47's and pipe bombs?

uh no...

his gun was better. :D

[Simplex3]

Don't buy it. You weren't on the jury and didn't have to. What she did was a terrible, horrible, unexcusable thing. She also happened to be insane when she did it.

The point being if she had been well she likely would not have killed those kids. She was the 'model' mother when she was well. It's not like she had a history of abusing her kids...on the contrary.
There's no making a psycho "well". It's a nice dream, but they're still psychos. No matter what anyone, her doctor, her husband, etc, would have done she was still a crazy bitch and always would be. There's no fixing that.

However, we Americans have this inane habit of trying to put ourselves in the shoes of someone so freaking nuts that we could never do what they did. We want to believe that nobody is actually that f**ked up so that we can sleep better at night.

I think we also operate under the fear that one day WE might be where she is and we imagine that we would want to get off, too. If we punish her harshly, then we might be held to that same standard. I'll announce it right now: If I ever kill my two children by drowning them one after the other in the bathtub society has the right to kill my ass without a trial.

[Simplex3]

uh no...

his gun was better. :D
Yeah, an AK will operate even when filled up with sand. Good thing, in your case.

[vailpass]

Got a proposal from a white guy. Said no thanks. He was not nearly as, uh, er, um, gifted as the one I married...

That's all I'll say.

ROFL

I can't stand your views on America, our troops, white men, and most any other thing you post.
Still, in hindsight I regret making such a harsh statement concerning your personal life.
I apologize.
I still consider you a white-man hating terrorist symp., don't get me wrong.

[BIG_DADDY]

uh no...

his gun was better. :D


So I see.

[vailpass]

So I see.

Is it possible to nominate a single picture for the Hall of Fame if it is part of an on-going theme?
If so I nominate this recurring beauty. It cracks my shit up every time I see it. The placement is perfect every time.

[memyselfI]

I can't stand your views on America, our troops, white men, and most any other thing you post.
Still, in hindsight I regret making such a harsh statement concerning your personal life.
I apologize.
I still consider you a white-man hating terrorist symp., don't get me wrong.

No apology necessary, but thanks. I took it lightly and tried to respond in kind.

The hating white men line is utter BS. I happen to adore many of them. Even some from Texas...like Thomas Haden Church and Owen Wilson. Some of the best friendships I've had over the years have been with white guys, even a couple of conservative ones. I dated some really nice white guys and might have married one of them if our lives had been in sync.

The guys I don't do well with are RWNJs. They are small but extremely irritating...like hemorroids.

[Fish]

Don't buy it. You weren't on the jury and didn't have to. What she did was a terrible, horrible, unexcusable thing. She also happened to be insane when she did it.

The point being if she had been well she likely would not have killed those kids. She was the 'model' mother when she was well. It's not like she had a history of abusing her kids...on the contrary.

Now how the hell can you sit here and say that? Have you sat down with Andrea and determined her mental state? No? Then who proved to you she is insane? The government? The media? Allah? Who was it that so clearly put that "truth" in your head?

If she was insane enough that she could not tell right from wrong or know that murdering your own children was bad, then she would have been removed from society a long time ago. Truly insane people cannot function in society. That level of insanity isn't something that comes and goes or can be controlled by medication. The level of detachment from society and social order required to get to the point where you lose the morality of murder is well and beyond this woman. The fact that you say she was a fine mother at one time proves that she isn't insane enough to justify getting away with murder.

She is a murderer and she deserves to die.

[Baby Lee]

Now how the hell can you sit here and say that? Have you sat down with Andrea and determined her mental state? No? Then who proved to you she is insane? The government? The media? Allah? Who was it that so clearly put that "truth" in your head?

If she was insane enough that she could not tell right from wrong or know that murdering your own children was bad, then she would have been removed from society a long time ago. Truly insane people cannot function in society. That level of insanity isn't something that comes and goes or can be controlled by medication. The level of detachment from society and social order required to get to the point where you lose the morality of murder is well and beyond this woman. The fact that you say she was a fine mother at one time proves that she isn't insane enough to justify getting away with murder.

She is a murderer and she deserves to die.
Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever seen such a panoply and concentration of wrong in a single post.
The doctors, and judges, and attorneys and jurors who put all the effort into analyzing this are FOS, but Ol' KC Fish, he read a new article and ruminated a bit and came to some impregnible logical conclusions.

[BIG_DADDY]

No apology necessary, but thanks. I took it lightly and tried to respond in kind.

The hating white men line is utter BS. I happen to adore many of them. Even some from Texas...like Thomas Haden Church and Owen Wilson. Some of the best friendships I've had over the years have been with white guys, even a couple of conservative ones. I dated some really nice white guys and might have married one of them if our lives had been in sync.

The guys I don't do well with are RWNJs. They are small but extremely irritating...like hemorroids.

Here's the cleanup job again. Come on Denise the last time you talked about the ex-cracker you went on and on about how the animal had abused you. I am sure many posters remember that. Is it even possible for you to be more full of shit?

[vailpass]

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever seen such a panoply and concentration of wrong in a single post.
The doctors, and judges, and attorneys and jurors who put all the effort into analyzing this are FOS, but Ol' KC Fish, he read a new article and ruminated a bit and came to some impregnible logical conclusions.

I wish more people would use the word "panoply". I love to say it to myself; it rolls trippingly off the tongue.

[Fish]

Jesus Christ, I don't think I've ever seen such a panoply and concentration of wrong in a single post.
The doctors, and judges, and attorneys and jurors who put all the effort into analyzing this are FOS, but Ol' KC Fish, he read a new article and ruminated a bit and came to some impregnible logical conclusions.

What the hell are you talking about? I could find 50 doctors that could diagnose 50 different mental conditions for just about anyone.... and when it comes to getting a doctor on the stand to give their opinion on a patient... come on... These days the defense has a doctor that says a patient is batshit crazy and the prosecution has a doctor that says the patient is in normal health or vice versa. It'a a joke.

And you of all people should know how backwards and unjust the legal system can be....

Andrea Yates recieving a not guilty verdict by reason of insanity is a mockery of justice.

[stevieray]

Sure thing, Mr.Cruise.

It is a sure thing, Mrs. Cruise.

I'm certain she held her kids under water thinking it was going to turn out constructively.

:clap:

[Baby Lee]

What the hell are you talking about? I could find 50 doctors that could diagnose 50 different mental conditions for just about anyone.... and when it comes to getting a doctor on the stand to give their opinion on a patient... come on... These days the defense has a doctor that says a patient is batshit crazy and the prosecution has a doctor that says the patient is in normal health or vice versa. It'a a joke.

And you of all people should know how backwards and unjust the legal system can be....

Andrea Yates recieving a not guilty verdict by reason of insanity is a mockery of justice.
I stand corrected, the world's a whore, except KCF the oracle.

That should be the Dem's healthcare crisis solution. Get rid of the doctors. If something's wrong with you, have a reporter write an article about it. KCF will then read it and cure you via posts on a sports BB.

[Fish]

I stand corrected, the world's a whore, except KCF the oracle.

That should be the Dem's healthcare crisis solution. Get rid of the doctors. If something's wrong with you, have a reporter write an article about it. KCF will then read it and cure you via posts on a sports BB.

:shake:

I'm not claiming to cure anyone. And I most certainly am not an oracle. I have opinions about the Yates trial and I am expressing them here. If you disagree, fine. State you claim and let's discuss. Otherwise STFU

[Baby Lee]

:shake:

I'm not claiming to cure anyone. And I most certainly am not an oracle. I have opinions about the Yates trial and I am expressing them here. If you disagree, fine. State you claim and let's discuss. Otherwise STFU
How precisely do we have a discussion when everyone who isn't you is either a lying whore, or an idiot who's been duped by lying whores?

[Fish]

How precisely do we have a discussion when everyone who isn't you is either a lying whore, or an idiot who's been duped by lying whores?

When did I say everyone other than myself is a lying whore or an idiot? Where do you get that?

So we're clear.... this is the point I'm trying to make in this thread:

Andrea Yates murdered her own 5 helpless children.

She planned this. Waited for the opportune moment, and one by one drowned each of them. This wasn't an accidental homocide where the gun went off and the person wished they could take it back. This wasn't a heat of the moment act. This was a five-stage act. She thought it through. Looked at each child as she held them under the water for several minutes, and when they quit fighting she grabbed the next child and repeated the process until all were dead.

The legal system takes over. They take her to trial and find her guilty. Declare her guilty.... But later.... they have to throw that guilty verdict out due to a prosecution witness making an error in a report. Did the error change the fact she was guilty of killing them? I don't think so...

They go to court again. The new jury knows she killed her children. They know that before she drowned them, she took the traction mat out of the bottom of the tub so the kids couldn't get a foothold while she drowned them. They were shown over 50 examples in her testimony that she knew what she was doing was wrong. They find her not guilty by insanity. And jurors would say after the trial they would have prefered guilty, but insane.

The facts are there. She killed her children. 5 children.

The legal system failed to eliminate this threat from society. The system failed.

That is my opinion. That's the point I'm trying to make. Feel free to tell me why my opinion is invalid, I'll gladly discuss.

[OldTownChief]

I don't get it. Someone tell me what I missed. I thought, according to Texas law, for a jury to find you not guilty by reason of insanity the defense has to prove that you didn't know the difference between right and wrong. What did these 12 people see that I'm missing?

[Cntrygal]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by AP
If Yates is found innocent by reason of insanity, she will be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released — although by law, jurors are not allowed to be told that
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Personally, I think she should be executed.

I also don't believe that my tax dollars should pay for to be hospitalized.

I'll always believe she knew what she was doing - after all, she had to chase the oldest thru the house to drag him back to the tub to murder him.

[Baby Lee]

When did I say everyone other than myself is a lying whore or an idiot? Where do you get that?
I could find 50 doctors that could diagnose 50 different mental conditions for just about anyone.... and when it comes to getting a doctor on the stand to give their opinion on a patient... come on... These days the defense has a doctor that says a patient is batshit crazy and the prosecution has a doctor that says the patient is in normal health or vice versa. It'a a joke.

And you of all people should know how backwards and unjust the legal system can be....
Seems pretty clear.
Andrea Yates murdered her own 5 helpless children.
Agreed
She planned this. Waited for the opportune moment, and one by one drowned each of them. This wasn't an accidental homocide where the gun went off and the person wished they could take it back.
No one has asserted that.
This wasn't a heat of the moment act.
Or that.
This was a five-stage act. She thought it through. Looked at each child as she held them under the water for several minutes, and when they quit fighting she grabbed the next child and repeated the process until all were dead.
if she was insane, as define in TX, not relevant.
The legal system takes over. They take her to trial and find her guilty. Declare her guilty.... But later.... they have to throw that guilty verdict out due to a prosecution witness making an error in a report. Did the error change the fact she was guilty of killing them? I don't think so...
They threw out the report because the expert testified that she'd probably seen a TV plot that never even aired. He testified that she cooked up the scheme based on the success in that plot, that never even aired. That 'error' may not have changed the fact of whether or not she killed them. But it certainly changes the rationale that she was scheming instead of insane.
They go to court again. The new jury knows she killed her children. They know that before she drowned them, she took the traction mat out of the bottom of the tub so the kids couldn't get a foothold while she drowned them. They were shown over 50 examples in her testimony that she knew what she was doing was wrong. They find her not guilty by insanity. And jurors would say after the trial they would have prefered guilty, but insane.
They also said
And another from juror Todd Frank:
'We understand that she knew it was legally wrong,” he said. “But in her delusional mind, in her severely mentally ill mind, we believe that she thought what she did was right.”
The legal system failed to eliminate this threat from society. The system failed.

That is my opinion. That's the point I'm trying to make. Feel free to tell me why my opinion is invalid, I'll gladly discuss.
And my point is that, for all it's flaws, I'll take the assessment of a jury who are engaged in a solemn assessment, presented all the evidence, consider it in depth and stand up and declare their judgment, over anyone who reads a couple of articles and second guesses on partial information.

And FTR, I was pointing out the possibility of the jury being swayed to error long before you.
I'd just add, remember the obverse of the mens rea requirement. You can generally be batshit insane, but if you were able to comprehend the quality of your actions at the time of commission, your general shitty sad-sack state isn't relevant.
I fear that the jury was swayed by historical evidence of strange behavior into losing focus on the evidence of premeditation and clarity in the course of the murders [waiting for hubby to leave, calling 911, etc.].
I just wasn't so self-righteous and self-assured in my own assessment.

[Fish]

And my point is that, for all it's flaws, I'll take the assessment of a jury who are engaged in a solemn assessment, presented all the evidence, consider it in depth and stand up and declare their judgment, over anyone who reads a couple of articles and second guesses on partial information.

I'm not saying it wasn't legal. Obviously the trial was conducted under "legal" circumstances. I'm saying I don't agree with the way it was handled, and in my opinion the system failed to uphold justice. To put it in its most basic form, I think the legal system has gotten so caught up in the technicalities and the regulations and fine print that the system has lost sight of right and wrong.

This is my opinion. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'd make a lousy lawyer. But I think Yates should be removed from society. I think the legal system did a very bad job of judging whether or not she was guilty of the crime.

[memyselfI]

I'm not saying it wasn't legal. Obviously the trial was conducted under "legal" circumstances. I'm saying I don't agree with the way it was handled, and in my opinion the system failed to uphold justice. To put it in its most basic form, I think the legal system has gotten so caught up in the technicalities and the regulations and fine print that the system has lost sight of right and wrong.

This is my opinion. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'd make a lousy lawyer. But I think Yates should be removed from society. I think the legal system did a very bad job of judging whether or not she was guilty of the crime.

I find this verdict alot less outrageous and horrific than I do the OJ verdict where the guy was clearly guilty and he's walking free. He murdered two people and is walking free.

She was guilty, admitted killing the kids but also had mitigating circumstances that impaired her to the point of making her a danger to her children. She should be punished. But the outrage over this verdict goes to people's inability to understand not only mental health issues but the judicial system.

In this case, a lie was used to prosecute a woman unfairly. When the truth was presented the jury found the opposite verdict to be the just one. This inspite of the fact that most of those jurors likely WANTED to find a mother who killed her five children guilty of murder. The system worked as it was supposed to.

In OJ's case the evidece was there but the jury considered things other than the testimony to find the accused not guilty. They wanted to find the defendant not guilty and found ways to do so. The system failed miserably in this case.

[Fish]

I find this verdict alot less outrageous and horrific than I do the OJ verdict where the guy was clearly guilty and he's walking free. He murdered two people and is walking free.

Oh I completely agree with you there. The OJ case was much worse. He actually had money, which is another unjust advantage in today's courtroom(IMO). I think that was the first point in my life I lost faith in the justice system.

In this case, a lie was used to prosecute a woman unfairly. When the truth was presented the jury found the opposite verdict to be the just one. This inspite of the fact that most of those jurors likely WANTED to find a mother who killed her five children guilty of murder. The system worked as it was supposed to.

I disagree with this. I think you have to consider that the defense gets to start from scratch with the case. They get a new jury, which could be much different than the last... And they have already gotten a chance to see their witnesses on the stand. They know what worked and what didn't in the last trial.

I understand that the prosecution has similar advantages, but the point is they got to try the case again. And there were screw ups throughout the entire process that will make this case look ugly for a long time to come.

[Ultra Peanut]

I find this verdict alot less outrageous and horrific than I do the OJ verdict where the guy was clearly guilty and he's walking free. He murdered two people and is walking free.This just proves that you hate white men, you terrorist! :cuss:

[Pitt Gorilla]

I just watched "most evil" on the discovery channel. They looked at famous female killers over the years. Interesting yet incredibly sad show.