Royals sign Hochevar

[ChiTown]

4 yr deal. Per 810

[Archie Bunker]

:clap:

[shakesthecat]

Sweet!

[teedubya]

finally, ****er. Although, Gordon didnt sign until September...

This is great news. Man, its fun being a Royals fan again.

[WilliamTheIrish]

w00t

[ChiTown]

OK, you Iowanians, the kid is going to start off in Burlington. So get your arses to the games and give us some reports.

[teedubya]

this news isnt listed anywhere yet. ChiTown owns all.

[ChiTown]

By the way, it's a major league contract, which means his service clock starts right away. Let's hope he get's to KC rather quickly.

[sedated]

cool, hopefully we can sign next year's #1 overall even quicker

[sedated]

By the way, it's a major league contract, which means his service clock starts right away. Let's hope he get's to KC rather quickly.

:eek:

and he's starting in birlington?

I would hope, with his major legue contract and year in the independent league, would make him ready to start in AA

[Eleazar]

By the way, it's a major league contract, which means his service clock starts right away. Let's hope he get's to KC rather quickly.

In the era gone past, the major league contract would worry me. I'd be thinking "that was the only deal they could sign him to, now we only get him for 4 years".

But with the Dayton Moore regime, I don't believe they would have done it if they didn't intend to show him the money when his contract comes up.

And the way we are adding talent, with a little luck his fourth year we should have a heck of a lineup in the majors. That would be a good time to scratch a big check to a starting pitcher.

[ChiTown]

:eek:

and he's starting in birlington?

I would hope, with his major legue contract and year in the independent league, would make him ready to start in AA

You know, after saying that, I might be wrong about the service time. I need to check that out this afternoon and I'll post the response I get.

[bkkcoh]

finally, ****er. Although, Gordon didnt sign until September...

This is great news. Man, its fun being a Royals fan again.

Yeah, things are looking up for :Royals: fans, finally. :toast:

[Eleazar]

You know, after saying that, I might be wrong about the service time. I need to check that out this afternoon and I'll post the response I get.

Would he go to arbitration after that where we can sign him for 2 more years at an increased salary? Or would that be his free agent offseason?

[ChiTown]

Would he go to arbitration after that where we can sign him for 2 more years at an increased salary? Or would that be his free agent offseason?

I believe it's arbitration.

I have a buddy with the SF Giants who clues me in what's going on around MLB. I'm going to give him a call today and find out what all this means.

[Mr. Laz]

By the way, it's a major league contract, which means his service clock starts right away. Let's hope he get's to KC rather quickly.
that freakin' sucks ...

[beavis]

By the way, it's a major league contract, which means his service clock starts right away. Let's hope he get's to KC rather quickly.
His service clock won't start until he's called up. All a major league contract does is bring up his options years sooner.

[Mr. Laz]

His service clock won't start until he's called up. All a major league contract does is bring up his options years sooner.
woo woo ... i wasn't sure how it worked


how much sooner?

[beavis]

woo woo ... i wasn't sure how it worked


how much sooner?
He's on the 40 man roster, so they have something like 3 years in which they can option him back and forth without having to clear waivers first. I'm sure tk13 could give a much better explanation that I can.

[SCTrojan]

Great news. Dayton getting it done. BTW here is the link to the Royals press release FWIW.

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060803&content_id=1591085&vkey=pr_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

[beavis]

Ok, so how does this sound for a front end of a rotation?

Greinke
Hochevar
Lumdson

Anyone else seeing some light at the end of the tunnel?

[tk13]

Yeah, beavis got it. If he's a "major league" player, they put him on the 40 man roster, and they have to actually "option" him down to the minors... like they did Greinke or Hernandez this year. You get to option a player for three years. After that he has to clear waivers to go down.

So basically, if it's an ML deal, he has three years to figure it out and develop and stick. Dayton's obviously confident he can do that.

[Sure-Oz]

Glad we got this done, i hope he can get through quick, hes missed alot of time already.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah, beavis got it. If he's a "major league" player, they put him on the 40 man roster, and they have to actually "option" him down to the minors... like they did Greinke or Hernandez this year. You get to option a player for three years. After that he has to clear waivers to go down.

So basically, if it's an ML deal, he has three years to figure it out and develop and stick. Dayton's obviously confident he can do that.

but it doesn't start his "MLB clock" towards free agency?



if he doesn't make the major league roster next year it doesn't make any difference?

[beavis]

but it doesn't start his "MLB clock" towards free agency?



if he doesn't make the major league roster next year it doesn't make any difference?
I don't think it does. Greinke isn't accumulating service time now since he's in the minors... same sort of situation. If it is, it's a ridiculously bad deal for the Royals, because they know they'd basically be giving up two years before he even got close to being Major League ready.

[duncan_idaho]

7 DeJesus
4 Keppinger
9 Gordon
DH Butler
5 Teahen
3 Shealy
6 ?
2 Buck
8 Gathright

Greinke
Hochevar
Lumsden
de la Rosa
?random vet

with burgos, nunez and sisco in the pen?

Yeah, I've got some hope now...

[Mr. Laz]

I don't think it does. Greinke isn't accumulating service time now since he's in the minors... same sort of situation. If it is, it's a ridiculously bad deal for the Royals, because they know they'd basically be giving up two years before he even got close to being Major League ready.
i thought once the clock started ... it kept running.


i ASSumed that grienke's was still accumulating time in the minors.


:hmmm:

[tk13]

but it doesn't start his "MLB clock" towards free agency?



if he doesn't make the major league roster next year it doesn't make any difference?
No, it doesn't. If I'm not mistaken... he has to actually be put on the 25 man active gameday roster to start the service clock. As long as we don't put him on that, it makes no difference to his service time.

[beavis]

7 DeJesus
4 Keppinger
9 Gordon
DH Butler
5 Teahen
3 Shealy
6 ?
2 Buck
8 Gathright

Greinke
Hochevar
Lumsden
de la Rosa
?random vet

with burgos, nunez and sisco in the pen?

Yeah, I've got some hope now...
I don't have a problem with that, except I don't think Gordon will be moving. From most of what I've read, it'll be Teahan looking for the new position. The way he's playing now, I really hope they don't trade him. I could see him playing first, or maybe an outfield spot. I also don't think Gathright is going to be much more than a 4th outfielder. I'd eventually like to see DeJesus slide back over to center, with Huber/Costa/Maier, whoever in left. But I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 1B types gets traded next year, be it Shealy or Huber. I think Dayton is still going to be on the lookout for more pitching.

[Mr. Laz]

No, it doesn't. If I'm not mistaken... he has to actually be put on the 25 man active gameday roster to start the service clock. As long as we don't put him on that, it makes no difference to his service time.
btw - what does start the clock?


teams have all those september callups and apparently it doesn't start the clock because the small market teams wouldn't do it so much.


does it take a certain amount of time all at once or something?



i'm not really up on MLB rules :shrug:

[Predarat]

I'll reserve my judgment on this until either
A. I see what kind of prospects/draft picks the Royals are going to get for these players when they get good
B. David "Tight Ass" Glass gets the hell out of Dodge!

[beavis]

No, it doesn't. If I'm not mistaken... he has to actually be put on the 25 man active gameday roster to start the service clock. As long as we don't put him on that, it makes no difference to his service time.
That's why I'm glad they sent Zach back down. Let him finish out this year in Wichita, and maybe even start next year in Omaha. They should be in no hurry to get him back up here and closer to arbitration/free agency.

[Eleazar]

Service time is accrued for every day spent in the majors. If a player spends 20 days or less of the season on optional assignment, the player is given service time for the entire season. This is to prevent various shenanigans if calling up a player at the end of April to buy an extra year of rights.

Service time allows the player more authority over how his contract can be assigned.

A player with 10 years or more Major League service, the last 5 being with the team he's currently on may not be assigned to another team without his consent.

A player with 5 years or more Major League service cannot be optioned to the minors without his permission. He must be offered his release. In the case of a player signed to a Major League contract as a free agent, and thus almost certainly signed to a guarantee contract, still has to be paid according to the provisions of his contract.

A player with 3 years or more Major League service may not be removed from the 40-man roster without his permission. The player can opt to be released immediately or at the end of the season.

A player may elect to become a free agent whenever he is removed from the 40-man roster starting with the second removal of his career. The player may opt to not become a free agent but to become a free agent after the season.

A player with 5 years or more Major League service that is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract may, during the offseason, require his new team to either trade him or let him become a free agent. If the player is eventually traded, he's not eligible to demand a trade again under the current contract and loses free agency rights for 3 years.

[Mr. Laz]

7 DeJesus
4 Keppinger
9 Gordon
DH Butler
5 Teahen
3 Shealy
6 ?
2 Buck
8 Gathright

Greinke
Hochevar
Lumsden
de la Rosa
?random vet

with burgos, nunez and sisco in the pen?

Yeah, I've got some hope now...
what about luke hudson?

grienke hasn't shown whether he's mentally stable enough to be a MLB pitcher.

[beavis]

btw - what does start the clock?


teams have all those september callups and apparently it doesn't start the clock because the small market teams wouldn't do it so much.


does it take a certain amount of time all at once or something?



i'm not really up on MLB rules :shrug:
Being on the 25 man roster counts as service time. I'd assume September callups count the same, but I'm not really sure. It's just a month, so I doubt they really care. Won't get them much closer to free agency.

[beavis]

I'll reserve my judgment on this until either
A. I see what kind of prospects/draft picks the Royals are going to get for these players when they get good
B. David "Tight Ass" Glass gets the hell out of Dodge!
Wow, we got to page 3 of this thread before some tool busted out a Glass sucks comment. Thanks for pissing all over the thread.

[Mr. Laz]

Service time is accrued for every day spent in the majors. If a player spends 20 days or less of the season on optional assignment, the player is given service time for the entire season. This is to prevent various shenanigans if calling up a player at the end of April to buy an extra year of rights.

Service time allows the player more authority over how his contract can be assigned.

A player with 10 years or more Major League service, the last 5 being with the team he's currently on may not be assigned to another team without his consent.

A player with 5 years or more Major League service cannot be optioned to the minors without his permission. He must be offered his release. In the case of a player signed to a Major League contract as a free agent, and thus almost certainly signed to a guarantee contract, still has to be paid according to the provisions of his contract.

A player with 3 years or more Major League service may not be removed from the 40-man roster without his permission. The player can opt to be released immediately or at the end of the season.

A player may elect to become a free agent whenever he is removed from the 40-man roster starting with the second removal of his career. The player may opt to not become a free agent but to become a free agent after the season.

A player with 5 years or more Major League service that is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract may, during the offseason, require his new team to either trade him or let him become a free agent. If the player is eventually traded, he's not eligible to demand a trade again under the current contract and loses free agency rights for 3 years.

dam :eek:

the MLBPA really gave the owners the hard one

[Eleazar]

I'll reserve my judgment on this until either
A. I see what kind of prospects/draft picks the Royals are going to get for these players when they get good
B. David "Tight Ass" Glass gets the hell out of Dodge!

I'm pretty sure the Royals are better than the baseball team in trashville. Er, wait, there isn't one.

[Eleazar]

dam :eek:

the MLBPA really gave the owners the hard one

I think that the major league contract just means that Hochevar is on the 40 man roster starting now. So next year should be year one of his service time since he didn't play the whole season this year.

Who knows. This crap is complicated :shrug:

[beavis]

dam :eek:

the MLBPA really gave the owners the hard one
You could say that about pretty much any aspect of the CBA.

[tk13]

Yeah, being on the 25 man roster automatically starts your clock. Greinke is not on the clock now.

I think being up in September counts too, I'm not sure, but usually teams only do that with guys they think are relatively close anyway.

[beavis]

I think that the major league contract just means that Hochevar is on the 40 man roster starting now. So next year should be year one of his service time since he didn't play the whole season this year.

Who knows. This crap is complicated :shrug:
Not unless he is called up. If he's in Wichita, his clock shouldn't be running. I think.

[tk13]

Not unless he is called up. If he's in Wichita, his clock shouldn't be running. I think.
Right.

Like, for instance... we have Angel Sanchez, SS prospect at Wichita... on the 40 man. His clock hasn't started yet because we haven't called him up.

I don't remember the exact rules, after so long in the minors, you either have to put a guy on the 40 man or risk losing him in the Rule V draft during the offseason. So Baird put Sanchez on the 40 man roster to protect him. But he hasn't earned any service time yet because we're letting him develop.

[ChiTown]

Thanks for posting the clarification, Cochise.

As to positions in the future, I'm going to throw out this 2008 Lineup:

CF - DeJesus
LF - Costa
3b - Gordan
1b - Teahen
RF - Butler
DH/1B - Shealy
C - Buck
SS - Trade
2b - Keppinger

I think the Royals will make a trade for a decent SS in the next 12 months. We don't have anyone that's ready in the monirs right now, as Sanchez won't be ready until late 2008 (earliest, unless he dramatically improve his fielding). I also thnk we'll see some FA acquisitions at 2b. Keppinger is around as solid insurance.

Relative to pitching, I have no clue. There are a slew of guys, but nothing that is very certain at this time. As an organization, we just need to keep stockpiling as many young live arms as we can. I am hopeful that one day the Royals pitching curse will be lifted, and we can actually develop and keep a young arm from our farm system.

[Eleazar]

I think the Royals will make a trade for a decent SS in the next 12 months. We don't have anyone that's ready in the monirs right now, as Sanchez won't be ready until late 2008 (earliest, unless he dramatically improve his fielding).

Bianchi just had an injury of some sort, but the team was high on him. He's only 19 anyways.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jeffrey_flanagan/15017007.htm

[ChiTown]

Bianchi just had an injury of some sort, but the team was high on him. He's only 19 anyways.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jeffrey_flanagan/15017007.htm

With his injuries, he's a good 3 years away. Bianchi, by far is our best SS prospect with the most upside potential. Short term, Sanchez is the next guy in line. He's got a nice stick, but he needs to continue working on his fielding if he wants to get to KC anytime soon. Dude has 21 errors in 102 games...

[tk13]

If some of these big boppers turn out... I think we could live with Blanco at short if he just held his own a little at the plate. Especially if he reaches his potential defensively. That's what Dayton wants up the middle.

[ChiTown]

If some of these big boppers turn out... I think we could live with Blanco at short if he just held his own a little at the plate. Especially if he reaches his potential defensively. That's what Dayton wants up the middle.

I'd be fine with Blanco for a couple of years, especially if we are able to dump Berroa. I just don't know who the hell is going to take him and his contract.

[Demonpenz]

berrora isn't that bad. Blanco reminds me of rafeal belliard

[ChiTown]

berrora isn't that bad. Blanco reminds me of rafeal belliard

Berroa is an inning killer. We'll have a guy on the ropes who can't find the plate, and he'll swing at the first high fastball, or swing on a 2-0 count when we need to work a pitcher's count. He's a lost cause in KC, IMO. Not to mention, he's just not a very heady SS, defensively.

[sedated]

berroa is an automatic out.

how did he get so damn bad?

he even had 21 steals his rookie year.

[Eleazar]

Blanco isn't any better than Berroa is IMO. I don't think he's better defensively. Berroa does not give you a lot of quality ABs but at least he can be streaky and isn't a flat .200 hitter or whatever.

[tk13]

Okay let's revise this a bit. Here's a really good article from today... a bit complicated but answers some of the roster move questions... you have to scroll about halfway down to get to the stuff I'm talking about.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/08/death_taxes_and_1.php

There apparently can be a fourth option year. If a player has less than five years of pro experience, you can be granted a fourth option year. That just doesn't usually come into play though.... because either the player has taken a few years to be called up, or he just wasn't good enough to make it to a fourth option year. The example he uses is Delmon Young. The D'Rays have optioned him down the last three years, and they can still do it again next year... and probably will. I didn't even know about this.

So... since he's just starting out, we'll be able to option Hochevar for the 4 year length of the contract. Gives Dayton an extra year of time to keep from rushing him.

[beavis]

berroa is an automatic out.

how did he get so damn bad?

he even had 21 steals his rookie year.
He's never been very good. What's so frustrating about him is, there is obviously some talent underlying there, but he's so friggin' stupid, he'll never be able to utilize it. You'd think after 4 years in the big leagues a guy might have some idea where the strike zone is.

Dump him, for anything.

[Mr. Laz]

he's so friggin' stupid,

:banghead:


brain of a waterbug

[sedated]

Blanco isn't any better than Berroa is IMO. I don't think he's better defensively. Berroa does not give you a lot of quality ABs but at least he can be streaky and isn't a flat .200 hitter or whatever.

in the field, from what I have seen, Blanco and Berroa both show flashes of being gold glove candidates.

the only difference is that berroa has his mental lapses (head up his ass), and makes too many errors.

berroa has more power at the plate, but strikes out all the time and never walks.

you can practically hear the catcher yell, "Low and away, in the dirt!" when berroa comes to bat, and he still swings at that sh!t.

[Eleazar]

the only difference is that berroa has his mental lapses (head up his ass), and makes too many errors.


For one thing, Blanco is hitting .230 at Omaha, hit .176 with KC earlier this year. So you're not going to convince anybody that he brings more offense than Berroa, who at least can get on a streak or occasionally poke one over the fence.

Second of all, Blanco makes more errors at AAA than Berroa does in the majors. He has 19 errors in 82 games at Omaha this year - Berroa has 13 errors in 92 games.

Blanco is not an upgrade. Simple as that.

[Coach]

Well, since we're talking about call-ups in September, who do you think the Royals will bring up?