Matt Leinart

[jspchief]

What a douche.

Back when he decided to stay a final year in college, I applauded him for choosing to enjoy the remnants of his youth rather than go after a paycheck. I thought it was a refreshing change from the typical college athlete that will get his payday as quickly as possible.

Now he's holding out? If the money was so damn important, he should have gone last year when you were a consensus #1 overall. This guy's sense of entitlement has been overfed by being the hollywood golden boy last year. Makes me question his original motive for staying on college. It's too bad someone I thought was one of the good guys turns out to be another dumbass.

[Mecca]

Dude, his agent is Tom Condon, what exactly where you expecting? Not to mention he's dealing with a notoriously cheap team.

And it's Leinart not Leinhart, everyone always jacks up his name for some reason.

[Sure-Oz]

Matt Lionheart just needs to sign and get over himself. He is acting like a douche, but he did date paris hilton right?

[Rain Man]

Yeah, I'll bet he's getting his advice from Paris Hilton.

[DJay23]

I'm sure now that he knows just how you feel on the subject, he'll expedite things to appease you :rolleyes:

Seriously, I'd be willing to bet 99% of the jokers on this here board (including myself) would be doing the same damn thing. Go get your money pretty boy.

[Mecca]

Tom Condon, anyone who knows anything about him knows he's a hardass. When I saw that he hired Condon as his agent I knew he'd be holding out.

[58-4ever]

I'm sure now that he knows just how you feel on the subject, he'll expedite things to appease you :rolleyes:

Seriously, I'd be willing to bet 99% of the jokers on this here board (including myself) would be doing the same damn thing. Go get your money pretty boy.

Yup, why go through training camp when you'll be holding the clipboard anyway.

[jspchief]

Dude, his agent is Tom Condon, what exactly where you expecting? It's not like he's going to a team that needs him right away, so he doesn't really have any leverage.

All he's doing is hurting his own chances to start when Warner has his inevitable flameout. On top of that, he's raining on the parade of a city that otherwise has a lot to be excited about this football season. All over a dollar amount that has to be exponentially less than what he passed on by foregoing the draft last year.

It's just beyond stupid.

[Mecca]

Well I don't know what the Cardinals are offering him.......they are notoriously cheap wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't up to snuff.

[JBucc]

Too bad he's already corrupted Dwayne Jarrett. That kid had a bright future.

[Mecca]

Too bad he's already corrupted Dwayne Jarrett. That kid had a bright future.

The Chiefs could only be so lucky to get Dwayne Jarrett....

[JBucc]

The Chiefs could only be so lucky to get Dwayne Jarrett....Hey if Logical is right...

[jspchief]

I'm sure now that he knows just how you feel on the subject, he'll expedite things to appease you :rolleyes:

Seriously, I'd be willing to bet 99% of the jokers on this here board (including myself) would be doing the same damn thing. Go get your money pretty boy.Yea, I started this thread because I thought my comments would have some bearing on his decision. Not to get a football discussion on the board.

As for what us jokers would do... us jokers would have entered the 2005 draft and collected out fortune being drafted #1 overall. That's my point. he's quibbling over nickels after he tossed aside benjamins to stay an extra year in college and play 'big man on campus".

[Sure-Oz]

Yea, I started this thread because I thought my comments would have some bearing on his decision. Not to get a football discussion on the board.

As for what us jokers would do... us jokers would have entered the 2005 draft and collected out fortune being drafted #1 overall. That's my point. he's quibbling over nickels after he tossed aside benjamins to stay an extra year in college and play 'big man on campus".
that dance class was really important to him though!!! :deevee:

[Mecca]

Yea, I started this thread because I thought my comments would have some bearing on his decision. Not to get a football discussion on the board.

As for what us jokers would do... us jokers would have entered the 2005 draft and collected out fortune being drafted #1 overall. That's my point. he's quibbling over nickels after he tossed aside benjamins to stay an extra year in college and play 'big man on campus".

He's still in a better situation than he would have been going to the 49ers.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well I don't know what the Cardinals are offering him.......they are notoriously cheap wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't up to snuff.

How could they shortchange him? Every other 1st rounder is signed.....isn't he pretty much slotted in?

I'd be curious to know what the players befor and after him signed for....

[Mecca]

How could they shortchange him? Every other 1st rounder is signed.....isn't he pretty much slotted in?

I'd be curious to know what the players befor and after him signed for....

It could happen, they could be offering just barely more then the pick after him with less guarenteed money.

[tk13]

The Cards had their best offseason since moving to Arizona. Made one of the biggest FA signings with Edge, have a brand new stadium that's actually sold out for once, I doubt their goal was to go out and undercut Leinart and ruin some good will going into the season.

Plus have Leinart be that much more unprepared in case they need to play him this year. QB might be the top position where you don't want a rookie who hasn't gone through training camp.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It could happen, they could be offering just barely more then the pick after him with less guarenteed money.

That would be Cutler at 6 years/48 million.....

Haven't found info on Ernie Sims.....5 year dael, financials not disclosed.

[JBucc]

I've heard that they were in disagreement over the number of years, that the Cards wanted 6 and Leinart/Condon wanted 5.

[Mecca]

They probably are offering a reasonable contract but Tom Condon is probably the most difficult agent in the NFL to deal with so like I said I expected a holdout before he was ever drafted.

[Eleazar]

I'm sure they are bringing out that old canard that he could have been #1 overall last year, so he deserves to get paid like a #1.

I don't think he has much room to complain either. If I were him I would have came out a year early, no question about it. No reason to risk my draft position and my pro career to injury if I'm in his position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm sure they are bringing out that old canard that he could have been #1 overall last year, so he deserves to get paid like a #1.

Woulda Coulda Shoulda......

You were drafted #10, you deserve to get paid like a #10......

Quit whining, get into camp, and get ready for when Kurt Warner suffers a concussion in the first quarter of week 1.

[Red Dawg]

I said last year he was a coward for not going into the draft. He will be be the biggest QB bust since Leaf because he's a rich boy who never earned anything in his life.

[Saulbadguy]

He's a pussy.

[teedubya]

I heard Matt Leinart was still sitting in the green room waiting to be drafted.

[Chiefnj]

Ernie Sims reportedly signed a really bad deal at #9, that's why his agent never leaked the amount to the press and it is still reported as undisclosed.

[noa]

I hate rookie holdouts, but he has leverage in that Kurt Warner is never going to finish the season healthy and the Cardinals were lucky as hell to get him in the first place.

[TinyEvel]

What are you guys balking about?

My agent is Condon.

He just scored me some orange pants for $12.99

(remember the orange pants thread??!!! Yeah, Rainman, can you hear me now?)

[FringeNC]

He would have come out last year if he knew he'd fall that far. Hindsight is 20/20.

It seems whenever a player for the Chiefs' holdouts, it is always Carl's fault, but when it happens to another team, it's always a greedy player's fault.

[Mecca]

I don't blame Leinart for not wanting to play in San Francisco......not to mention he was the star of LA for another year.

[Jim Jones]

It's too bad someone I thought was one of the good guys turns out to be another dumbass.

I'm sure Matt Leinart will shed a tear tonight knowing he has lost the respect of jspchief.

[jspchief]

I'm sure Matt Leinart will shed a tear tonight knowing he has lost the respect of jspchief.Yea, because that's exactly what I was getting at. :rolleyes:

[Mecca]

Yea, because that's exactly what I was getting at. :rolleyes:

I have a question, seeing as you are from Iowa. Did you jump on Bob Sanders a few years ago when he held out as a 2nd round pick? He was the last player to sign that year and I think the season had started by the time he signed......

[Jim Jones]

Yea, because that's exactly what I was getting at. :rolleyes:


You weren't getting at anything, and this entire thread is pointless.

So Leinart is holding out? Big deal. He's not a chief, he didn't play college anywhere in Missouri or Kansas, he has no affiliations to this team, he's just a guy holding out. He isn't the first and won't be the last. If you want to whine about USC then go find a USC board and do it.

[jspchief]

I have a question, seeing as you are from Iowa. Did you jump on Bob Sanders a few years ago when he held out as a 2nd round pick? He was the last player to sign that year and I think the season had started by the time he signed......Did Bob Sanders stay an extra year at college because "It's not always about the money"?

And yea, I'm sure I probably said it was stupid.

[jspchief]

You weren't getting at anything, and this entire thread is pointless.

So Leinart is holding out? Big deal. He's not a chief, he didn't play college anywhere in Missouri or Kansas, he has no affiliations to this team, he's just a guy holding out. He isn't the first and won't be the last. If you want to whine about USC then go find a USC board and do it.Listen f*ckhead, I'm not sure who named you king shit of f*ck mountain, but I'm pretty sure I don't give a damn what you think is an appropriate thread for this board.

Maybe you haven't noticed in the 3 months you've been here, but there a hell of a lot of threads that are posted here every single day that don't have a thing to do with football, the Chiefs, or Missouri or Kansas.

It's a slow night so I brought up what I thought was an interesting football topic. What makes this different than the average holdout is it's a guy that passed up the opportunity (and money) to be #1 overall last year, top turn around and make an issue out of money this year. There's more than a hint of irony.

I'm sorry if this thread bruised your labia Mrs. Leinart. I'll try and go easy on your son from here on out.

[Jim Jones]

I'm sorry if this thread bruised your labia Mrs. Leinart.

Listen f*ckhead, I'm not sure who named you king shit of f*ck mountain

And I'M the one with the "bruised labia"? Riiight.


Did Bob Sanders stay an extra year at college because "It's not always about the money"?

Does "it's not always about the money" mean it's never about the money? Last year it wasn't about the money for him, he was enjoying the college life and had a chance to make history with his team - now he's in the NFL, and now it's about securing the best deal he can for himself.

[dirk digler]

From PFT

Though the specifics as to the respective bargaining positions are currently sketchy, it's a safe bet that Leinart and company still want more money than the Cardinals are willing to pay. Complicating matters is the perception that the guy drafted in front of the 2004 Heisman winner, Ernie Sims, signed a bad deal and that the guy taken behind him, Jay Cutler, signed a mediocre one.

[Stinger]

Well he is no longer a holdout

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5873090

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) - Matt Leinart (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/401241) ended his two-week holdout and signed with the Arizona Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066).


The team announced the signing late Monday night and Leinart was expected to begin training camp Tuesday.

The six-year deal can bring the rookie up to $51 million, agent Tom Condon said. Leinart will be guaranteed $14 million, according to Condon.

Earlier Monday, Arizona Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066) coach Dennis Green criticized Leinart and his representatives for rejecting "a more than generous" offer from the team.

Leinart was the last first-round pick to reach a contract agreement.

ESPN first reported the agreement on "Monday Night Football."

The agreement came three days before the Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066) will end their camp at Northern Arizona University. They play at New England on Saturday.

After winning the Heisman Trophy, Leinart might have been the No. 1 pick in the draft a year ago, but decided to remain at USC for his senior season. This year, he unexpectedly fell to the Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066) at the No. 10 spot, a tumble that cost him millions.

He was the first quarterback chosen in the opening round by the Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066) in 19 years.

Leinart was the second quarterback chosen in the draft, behind Vince Young (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/401227) of Texas, who went to Tennessee with the No. 3 pick overall, and one spot ahead of Jay Cutler (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/401243) of Vanderbilt, who went to Denver.

Young signed a six-year contract worth up to $58 million, with $25.7 million guaranteed. Cutler signed a six-year deal worth as much as $48 million, with $11 million guaranteed.

Green's criticism focused on what the coach said was far more than a 10th pick normally would receive. A grumpy Green was upset with the perception that Cardinals (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67066) owner Bill Bidwill was being cheap.

"I've been here two years," Green said. "All I know is when we set out a strategy, whether it be signing Bertrand Berry (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/69564) or drafting Larry Fitzgerald (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/200299), Bill Bidwill has helped us get that player."

He said the signing of running back Edgerrin James (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/69770) was the best example.

"Edgerrin James is as big as they come," Green said. "We had our powder dry and we got a guy who's been the most significant back in the National Football League over the last seven years."

Leinart's absence was magnified when starter Kurt Warner (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/70003)'s backup John Navarre (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/200549) threw two interceptions in Saturday's preseason opener against Pittsburgh.

Warner said he understood Green's frustrations.

"Coach wants guys to help us win and Matt's one of those guys that's going to make our team better," Warner said. "That sometimes can get frustrating as players, as a coach, because so much of that is out of your control."

Leinart has missed a crucial two weeks of training camp, Warner said.

"I think everybody knows that the more days you miss, the more games you miss, the farther and farther you fall behind and the harder it is to catch up," Warner said.

[Rain Man]

Listen f*ckhead, I'm not sure who named you king shit of f*ck mountain, but I'm pretty sure I don't give a damn what you think is an appropriate thread for this board.




I apologize. I actually named him king sh*t of f*ck mountain, but then discovered yesterday that only the Parliament has the authority to do that. Now comes the hard part of taking back the crown.

[jspchief]

I apologize. I actually named him king sh*t of f*ck mountain, but then discovered yesterday that only the Parliament has the authority to do that. Now comes the hard part of taking back the crown.Maybe you could poll the commoners.

[Hound333]

He's still in a better situation than he would have been going to the 49ers.


This is my exact thoughts. He's going to join a team on the rise and put up good numbers because he has good weapons around him. He will make much more money over his career because of it. If he had gone to SF we would be talking about how bad he sucks like we do Alex Smith.

[Rain Man]

Maybe you could poll the commoners.


Let them vote for cake.

[KChiefsQT]

money, money, money, money, MONEY!!!

[Cormac]

Maybe you could poll the commoners.

The commoners say f*uck sh!thead mountain (or whatever it is called), just use the ignore list.

:D

~welcoming a new member

[DaneMcCloud]

I never understand people who blame the athletes for a holdout of this kind. He's a 23 year old kid, fresh out of college who's hired a professional agent (lawyer) for advice when signing a long term contract with notoriously bad (and cheap) football team in a league that has a brand new 24 Billion dollar television contract.

He was just following the advice of his agent/lawyer, a professional that he hired and trusted. All the other stuff (he stayed in school, blah, blah, blah) is just nonsense.

[jspchief]

I never understand people who blame the athletes for a holdout of this kind. He's a 23 year old kid, fresh out of college who's hired a professional agent (lawyer) for advice when signing a long term contract with notoriously bad (and cheap) football team in a league that has a brand new 24 Billion dollar television contract.

He was just following the advice of his agent/lawyer, a professional that he hired and trusted. All the other stuff (he stayed in school, blah, blah, blah) is just nonsense.Every other played taken in the draft had signed. At what point does this naive kid recognize the obvious and ask his lawyer WTF is going on? He's 24, not 12. You can't say he's at the mercy of his agent... he's his agent's boss.

I just find it highly ironic that the guy who didn't care about the payday last year is (was) holding out this year.

[vailpass]

The Cardinal insider here in Phoenix, a former player named Mike Jurecki, reports that the Cardinals and Leinart agreed on gauranteed $ and contract length a week ago. Leinart gave in on length, going for the 6 years the team wanted instead of 5. In return the Cards gave Leinart a little more guaranteed $, 14 million.

According to Jurecki, for the past WEEK the only thing that has kept the deal from getting done is unattainable escalator clauses the Cards built into the contract. The clauses required Linart to play a percentage of time and achieve other milestones that were way more difficult to achieve than standard clasuses. Finally last night the Cards changed those clauses to fit industry standard. For this crappy piece of negotiating the Cards kept their prize draft pick unsigned for an extra week and from playing the first game in their new stadium and earned the continued ill will of fans.

From all appearances Condon did a good job protecting his client from a bad contract and once again the Cards show why they are the low-water mark of NFL front offices.

[DaneMcCloud]

I just find it highly ironic that the guy who didn't care about the payday last year is (was) holding out this year.

So, you're the same exact person as you were one year ago? Same wants, same needs, same value?

But besides all of that, are you the type of person who would just give in when negotiating a contract of that value? You'd just give in to someone elses contract demands so easily? We're talking about holding out for 2 weeks versus the next six years of his life! But even beyond that, a guy who was drafted by a franchise that's had one playoff appearance in 50 years; one that has always had a reputation of operating "on the cheap".

We see and hear about people signing bad contracts all the time and we wonder "Why in the world did that guy sign that contract?" whether it's the sports world, business world or entertainment world. Contracts are common place these days and good legal counsel is worth every penny, holdout or not.

We live in a highly litigious society and I think it was in his best interest to sign a contract that both he and his agent thought was fair, regardless of public opinion.

[whoaskew]

So, you're the same exact person as you were one year ago? Same wants, same needs, same value?

But besides all of that, are you the type of person who would just give in when negotiating a contract of that value? You'd just give in to someone elses contract demands so easily? We're talking about holding out for 2 weeks versus the next six years of his life! But even beyond that, a guy who was drafted by a franchise that's had one playoff appearance in 50 years; one that has always had a reputation of operating "on the cheap".

We see and hear about people signing bad contracts all the time and we wonder "Why in the world did that guy sign that contract?" whether it's the sports world, business world or entertainment world. Contracts are common place these days and good legal counsel is worth every penny, holdout or not.

We live in a highly litigious society and I think it was in his best interest to sign a contract that both he and his agent thought was fair, regardless of public opinion.

I agree.

[jspchief]

So, you're the same exact person as you were one year ago? Same wants, same needs, same value?

But besides all of that, are you the type of person who would just give in when negotiating a contract of that value? You'd just give in to someone elses contract demands so easily? We're talking about holding out for 2 weeks versus the next six years of his life! But even beyond that, a guy who was drafted by a franchise that's had one playoff appearance in 50 years; one that has always had a reputation of operating "on the cheap".

We see and hear about people signing bad contracts all the time and we wonder "Why in the world did that guy sign that contract?" whether it's the sports world, business world or entertainment world. Contracts are common place these days and good legal counsel is worth every penny, holdout or not.

We live in a highly litigious society and I think it was in his best interest to sign a contract that both he and his agent thought was fair, regardless of public opinion.I'll never be in his situation, so any claim I make as to what I would do is based purely the "real me" rather than this imaginary "what if it were you" me.

First, I would have probably entered the draft last year and got #1 overall money. That being said, I would probably recognize at some point that missing practice was hurting my ability to transition to the NFL. I would recognize that the slated starter has a history with getting injured, and is not a long term solution, so it would benefit my career to get in and start working towards unseating Warner. I would also realize that the rookie pay scale is based on a slotting system and that asking for an additional $3 mil guranteed above what the slot dictates is going to be trouble.

Am I the type of person that would just give in on a contract negotiation? No. But I'm also not the type of person that would try and rewrite the rules at the detriment of my opportunity and public image.

It would be different if he wasn't the last guy holding out, demanding way beyond what the slot dictates. There comes a point when you look around and say "Everybody else seems to have figured this out, why should I believe I'm smarter than the rest of the NFL?"

[|Zach|]

Let them vote for cake.
Ha.

[MahiMike]

Why are you picking on him? The guy's a role model that stayed in school when others would have bailed. He knew he was big man on campus and getting all the 'tang' he could handle. You're only young once. Kudos to him for realizing this and getting the most out of his life.

Now he's laid dozens of chicks at the university of freakin California, has the future ahead of him in a brand new stadium with the best WR tandem in the league. And oh yeah, his bank account is $14M bigger than it was last week.

I'd say you need to find a different target to pick on dude.

[jspchief]

Why are you picking on him? The guy's a role model that stayed in school when others would have bailed. He knew he was big man on campus and getting all the 'tang' he could handle. You're only young once. Kudos to him for realizing this and getting the most out of his life.

Now he's laid dozens of chicks at the university of freakin California, has the future ahead of him in a brand new stadium with the best WR tandem in the league. And oh yeah, his bank account is $14M bigger than it was last week.

I'd say you need to find a different target to pick on dude.Oh, well as long as he laid a bunch of chicks. :rolleyes:

[ROYC75]

While Ihave not read the comments here, he probally figures he did screw up by not coming out last year. Now he wants to somehow make up for the lost revenue by droppping in the draft. With Condon by his side, he was going to get a good guarantee amount of cash or sit out.

Looks like he got it ...........

[Brock]

Why are you picking on him? The guy's a role model that stayed in school when others would have bailed. He knew he was big man on campus and getting all the 'tang' he could handle. You're only young once. Kudos to him for realizing this and getting the most out of his life.

Now he's laid dozens of chicks at the university of freakin California, has the future ahead of him in a brand new stadium with the best WR tandem in the league. And oh yeah, his bank account is $14M bigger than it was last week.

I'd say you need to find a different target to pick on dude.

Yeah, it's not like NFL players draw women like flies.

[DaneMcCloud]

It would be different if he wasn't the last guy holding out, demanding way beyond what the slot dictates. There comes a point when you look around and say "Everybody else seems to have figured this out, why should I believe I'm smarter than the rest of the NFL?"

Well first off, if you're going to comment on a person's situation in a negative fashion, it's best you try to put your self in their situation. Otherwise, you come off looking foolish (which is certainly not an issue in your case, as you've had more than a few intelligent post over the years).

Secondly, there had to be an issue that had more to do than just bonus or slotting money. If VP's post has any validity, it appears it was the unattainable escalators which any good agent should have issue with and "redline" immediately.

Regardless of missing training camp, having an oft-injured starter, etc., those issues have absolutely no bearing on Leinart's contract. He's signing a contract that's best for him. He could be injured in the first practice and never play a game in the NFL, so he (and every player) needs to sign a contract not only worthy of their draft position, but one in which they feel comfortable. Afterall, it's not only a contract but it's their life.

[Hound333]

Its done so this is a dead issue now. We have all seen contract talks go into the season let alone just a few weeks into camp. Most normal years there might still be a few people holding out.

[jspchief]

Secondly, there had to be an issue that had more to do than just bonus or slotting money. If VP's post has any validity, it appears it was the unattainable escalators which any good agent should have issue with and "redline" immediately.

Sure, if you ignore that the Cards were giving him $3 mil more than the slot dictates I could see where you might say "same ol cheap Cardinals". I can recognize that the Cardinals may have had demands that were unreasonable, but don't act like Leinart didn't do the same thing by demanding the gauranteed money that he did.

As for taking care of his life, it goes back to what I said before. Every other draft pick was able to come to terms with their team. Are you suggesting the rest of them just don't care? Or maybe were they able to see beyond just the contract and recognize there is a job to do that goes with that contract, and getting into camp and being a teammate goes a long way towards doing that job.

I respect a guy that says "getting into camp is my #1 priority".

I don't respect a guy that says "getting the biggest possible paycheck regardless of the effect it has on my team is my #1 priority". Especially when you consider the nature of NFL rookie contracts that pay these guys a lot of money that they've done nothing to earn.

[Calcountry]

Matt Lionheart just needs to sign and get over himself. He is acting like a douche, but he did date paris hilton right?and that is suppose to be a good thing?

That is tantamount to dating a 2x4.

[DMAC]

and that is suppose to be a good thing?

That is tantamount to dating a 2x4.That's hot.

[Calcountry]

It's not like he's going to a team that needs him right away, so he doesn't really have any leverage.

All he's doing is hurting his own chances to start when Warner has his inevitable flameout. On top of that, he's raining on the parade of a city that otherwise has a lot to be excited about this football season. All over a dollar amount that has to be exponentially less than what he passed on by foregoing the draft last year.

It's just beyond stupid.Uh, yeah, but then I am on record here at CP calling him stupid for not coming out last year, last year.

[Calcountry]

Yea, I started this thread because I thought my comments would have some bearing on his decision. Not to get a football discussion on the board.

As for what us jokers would do... us jokers would have entered the 2005 draft and collected out fortune being drafted #1 overall. That's my point. he's quibbling over nickels after he tossed aside benjamins to stay an extra year in college and play 'big man on campus".But what did he do that extra year in college besides play football and bang girlies? Dance?
That was worth a few mill.

[chiefsfan1963]

what's all the negativity toward Leinart about? The guy got only $14 M guarantee money. That's $11 M less than what Young got. Leinart is one of the best QB's in the draft arguable better than Young. Leave the kid alone.

[jspchief]

But what did he do that extra year in college besides play football and bang girlies? Dance?
That was worth a few mill.It's funny, because at the time I thought it was awesome that he stayed in college. He took a shot at losing millions to possibly become one of the great college QBs in history. The college football fan in me loves the idea of a guy that forgoes that payday to pursue the glory that he could have had with another championship. It would have been an amazing story for college football if they had won or he had won the Heisman.

Sure, it was also about banging chicks, partying, etc. But that's college. It was the chance to become a true college icon.

[BigChiefFan]

Leinart is acting all innocent, but he held out longer than anybody else from this year's draft for MORE money. I can't believe some don't want to deal with that FACT. Leinart and Condon both screwed the slotting for next year's top 10, IMO. It's greedy agents and players that are making a better case for rookie slotting similiar to the NBA.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sure, if you ignore that the Cards were giving him $3 mil more than the slot dictates I could see where you might say "same ol cheap Cardinals". I can recognize that the Cardinals may have had demands that were unreasonable, but don't act like Leinart didn't do the same thing by demanding the gauranteed money that he did.

As we now know, it didn't have to do with bonus money but with unattainable escalators. From ESPN:

In the end, Cardinals officials agreed to an escalator package similar to the one featured in the contract of Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Byron Leftwich, a first-round choice in the 2003 draft.

As for taking care of his life, it goes back to what I said before. Every other draft pick was able to come to terms with their team. Are you suggesting the rest of them just don't care? Or maybe were they able to see beyond just the contract and recognize there is a job to do that goes with that contract, and getting into camp and being a teammate goes a long way towards doing that job.

I think that every position in the NFL is different and a contract for a QB is not necessarily structured the same as a contract for an offensive tackle. I hardly think that anyone on the Cardinals football team even cares how long the holdout lasted because they all have jobs to do, regardless of Leinart's contract status.


I respect a guy that says "getting into camp is my #1 priority".

I don't respect a guy that says "getting the biggest possible paycheck regardless of the effect it has on my team is my #1 priority". Especially when you consider the nature of NFL rookie contracts that pay these guys a lot of money that they've done nothing to earn.

It's the NFL's rules that don't allow unsigned players to participate because of liabilities and injuries. That's the system and it doesn't appear that it will change anytime soon. Blaming Leinart (or any NFL player) for working within the system that the owners and union put into place is unfounded. Each and every NFL player knows that they must get the best contract possible, regardless of their teammates because their playing days could end at any time.

As far "gaining your respect", that's your issue. This is a time in professional sports where people play for millions and owners sign contracts for billions. Leinart (or any other major sports league player) should only earn "respect" with what they do on the playing field, not at the bargaining table.

[chiefsfan1963]

Leinart is acting all innocent, but he held out longer than anybody else from this year's draft for MORE money. I can't believe some don't want to deal with that FACT. Leinart and Condon both screwed the slotting for next year's top 10, IMO. It's greedy agents and players that are making a better case for rookie slotting similiar to the NBA.

don't buy into the hype bud. the only people that are greedy are the owners. There are very few NFL players that can make the guarantee money we've been seeing lately. Leinart deal is not that impressive when you compare it with Young's. Leinart got $11 M less guarantee money and I believe Leinart will be a better QB in the NFL.

[Calcountry]

It's funny, because at the time I thought it was awesome that he stayed in college. He took a shot at losing millions to possibly become one of the great college QBs in history. The college football fan in me loves the idea of a guy that forgoes that payday to pursue the glory that he could have had with another championship. It would have been an amazing story for college football if they had won or he had won the Heisman.

Sure, it was also about banging chicks, partying, etc. But that's college. It was the chance to become a true college icon.Here is my problem with your analysis on Leinert.

If you are a USC fan, then be selfish for USC. Sure it is great for USC to have him another year, but for nobody else is this a benefit, including Leinert.

Looking at this from a career point of view/business decision, it was very poorly made at best, and catastrophic at worst.

Leinert would be at SF or Oakland right now, he is a Californian so that would work better than Az, the Desert is teh suck, but lets lay all that aside and just look at the money.

When the Senior VP recommends a Junior VP for his post when he is moving to a CEO job at another company, the Junior VP better be ready to step into that role if he wants to continue within that company. Lack of willingness to take on new and tougher challenges demonstrates a lack of leadership and is indicative of an under performer who prefers the safe and comfy familiar to the bold and dynamic unknown.

Just why exactly was he not in the top 5 this year? I am sure that some of his slide was due to exactly what I posted, fear on the intangibles of what motivates this guy? Some of it, of course, was due to the crop of talent that he was competing against relative to last year, which again points to the poor business decision it was. He should definitely sell his wares when there is less competition rather than when there is more, but then, he didn't take econ in that last year of college, it was dancing.

[BigChiefFan]

don't buy into the hype bud. the only people that are greedy are the owners. There are very few NFL players that can make the guarantee money we've been seeing lately. Leinart deal is not that impressive when you compare it with Young's. Leinart got $11 M less guarantee money and I believe Leinart will be a better QB in the NFL.

On ESPN they reported that he got $14 million in guaranteed money. That's not HYPE, that's a RANSOM. Leinart has all the potential in the world, just like EVERY other ROOKIE, but that still doesn't change the fact that Leinart hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL, yet, but now he's a millionaire. There's YOUR HYPE. He was signed to a fat contract all based on HYPE and PERCEIVED ability.

Also did you forget that Young was drafted BEFORE Leinart?

[jspchief]

As we now know, it didn't have to do with bonus money but with unattainable escalators. From ESPN:

In the end, Cardinals officials agreed to an escalator package similar to the one featured in the contract of Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Byron Leftwich, a first-round choice in the 2003 draft.
You're missing my point. Everyone wants to talk about the unreasonable bonus clauses Arizona was asking for, but ignore the unreasonable bonuses that Leinart was after. The door swings both ways, so to act like it was all about theCardinals being unreasonable is BS. Leinart was demanding 3 mil more than the slot dictates, and that slot number was partially determined by the contract Jay Cutler (another QB) signed.



As far "gaining your respect", that's your issue. This is a time in professional sports where people play for millions and owners sign contracts for billions. Leinart (or any other major sports league player) should only earn "respect" with what they do on the playing field, not at the bargaining table. That's funny, because I feel they should earn their pay the same way you think they should earn their respect. Difference of opinion.

[Calcountry]

On ESPN they reported that he got $14 million in guaranteed money. That's not HYPE, that's a RANSOM. Leinart has all the potential in the world, just like EVERY other ROOKIE, but that still doesn't change the fact that Leinart hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL, yet, but now he's a millionaire. There's YOUR HYPE. He was signed to a fat contract all based on HYPE and PERCEIVED ability.

Also did you forget that Young was drafted BEFORE Leinart?So he threw away a sum of money north of 14M to Dance, play another year of college ball, bang a few broads, and get smoked in the Rose Bowl by someone who was hungrier?

That is just great business.

[Calcountry]

So he threw away a sum of money north of 14M to Dance, play another year of college ball, bang a few broads, and get smoked in the Rose Bowl by someone who was hungrier?

That is just great business.Check that, my econ is rusty. We cannot consider the banging of broads as an opportunity cost of staying in College because he obviously would have had as many or more available to him had he entered the NFL. Topic shouldn't have entered into any discussion as to why he should have rationally decided to stay in college another year.

[BigChiefFan]

So he threw away a sum of money north of 14M to Dance, play another year of college ball, bang a few broads, and get smoked in the Rose Bowl by someone who was hungrier?

That is just great business.

You seem to be missing the HOLDING-OUT point. Who held out longer than Leinart in this year's draft? Answer:NOBODY. His staying an extra year is admirable on the surface, but he chose that. Anybody with half a wit would know you can't go any higher than number one overall which he was pretty much a lock for last year. He risked losing that money and it cost him. Unfortunately, Leinart didn't get the memo.

[jspchief]

You seem to be missing the HOLDING-OUT point. Who held out longer than Leinart in this year's draft? Answer:NOBODY. His staying an extra year is admirable on the surface, but he chose that. Anybody with half a wit would know you can't go any higher than number one overall which he was pretty much a lock for last year. He risked losing that money and it cost him. Unfortunately, Leinart didn't get the memo.Exactly. He chose to party it up until he puked in his own bed, now he wants to know why he's not sleeping on satin sheets.

[morphius]

Well, I keep hoping that if enough of these yahoo's hold out, the more likely the NFL will be able to impliment a rookie salary structure similar to what the NBA does.

[jspchief]

Well, I keep hoping that if enough of these yahoo's hold out, the more likely the NFL will be able to impliment a rookie salary structure similar to what the NBA does.I can't believe it never even came up in the labor talks this spring.

[DaneMcCloud]

You're missing my point. Everyone wants to talk about the unreasonable bonus clauses Arizona was asking for, but ignore the unreasonable bonuses that Leinart was after. The door swings both ways, so to act like it was all about theCardinals being unreasonable is BS. Leinart was demanding 3 mil more than the slot dictates, and that slot number was partially determined by the contract Jay Cutler (another QB) signed.

So the way you see it is that the Cardinals gave in to his demands, regardless of their position of power. Why? They have Kurt Warner. Why would they just "give in", unless his "demands" were reasonable? This is a Multi-Billion Dollar Business we're discussing, not working at 7-11. And if the Cardinals *did* give into his his demands, why didn't they do it sooner? Your position makes no sense to me, how the player's at fault here.

That's funny, because I feel they should earn their pay the same way you think they should earn their respect. Difference of opinion.

Major difference of opinion. As I mentioned earlier, this is the way the system works. It was agreed upon by the owners and the NFL Players Union. Regardless of fan opinion, this is the way the NFL has chosen to operate. Every NFL rookie knows how this works, which is why they hire agents. Why "hate" on a guy who is working within the system?

[sedated]

I don't see how deciding to stay in school automatically means that you have to accept the first offer given.

that's not a very good precedent to set.

[FringeNC]

He had a chance to be King of LA for one more year, and the chance to be part of the greatest college team ever (had the won their last game) vs. being pounded into the ground game in game out like Alex Smith.

Why the vitriol against him? He wants the most money he can get, and the Cardinals want to pay him the least they can get away with. That's called negotiating.

He's broken no laws, thrown no teammates under the bus. He's simply made a choice. Why the need morally judge the guy about his preferences for personal glory at USC vs. a few million lost dollars? My guess is that about 50% of the board would have done the same thing, and 50% would have taken the sure thing.

I fail to see what he has done to make him a villain.

[jspchief]

I don't see how deciding to stay in school automatically means that you have to accept the first offer given.

that's not a very good precedent to set.Yea, because "accepting the first offer given" is pretty much the same as being the last draft pick in the entire NFL to sign.

[sedated]

Yea, because "accepting the first offer given" is pretty much the same as being the last draft pick in the entire NFL to sign.

ok.

so, by staying in school he gives up his right to hold out?


I think that would have some affect on the team's contract offer

[jspchief]

ok.

so, by staying in school he gives up his right to hold out?


I think that would have some affect on the team's contract offerHe has the right to do whatever the f*ck he wants.

Just like I have the right to think he's a douche for doing it.

[chiefsfan1963]

On ESPN they reported that he got $14 million in guaranteed money. That's not HYPE, that's a RANSOM. Leinart has all the potential in the world, just like EVERY other ROOKIE, but that still doesn't change the fact that Leinart hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL, yet, but now he's a millionaire. There's YOUR HYPE. He was signed to a fat contract all based on HYPE and PERCEIVED ability.

Also did you forget that Young was drafted BEFORE Leinart?

I have no problem with Leinart holding out for as long as he did. Young may have gotten drafted earlier but making $11 M more in guarantee money than Leinart makes no sense to me. Negotiating is what it's all about. The kid is doing what he needs to do to get what he can get.
I have plenty of respect still that he stayed at USC for the full 4 years, he definitely left a lot of money on the table by doing this and one year of experience in the NFL. I do not understand why anyone is jumping all over him for holding out. They are definitely not looking at the totally picture.

[chiefsfan1963]

He had a chance to be King of LA for one more year, and the chance to be part of the greatest college team ever (had the won their last game) vs. being pounded into the ground game in game out like Alex Smith.

Why the vitriol against him? He wants the most money he can get, and the Cardinals want to pay him the least they can get away with. That's called negotiating.

He's broken no laws, thrown no teammates under the bus. He's simply made a choice. Why the need morally judge the guy about his preferences for personal glory at USC vs. a few million lost dollars? My guess is that about 50% of the board would have done the same thing, and 50% would have taken the sure thing.

I fail to see what he has done to make him a villain.

my thoughts exactly. I think those that are pissed at him are living lives of quite desparation, and are envious of Leinart's good fortune.

[jspchief]

my thoughts exactly. I think those that are pissed at him are living lives of quite desparation, and are envious of Leinart's good fortune.You got me.

http://www.enexgee.net/pics/gif/head_ache.gif

[Calcountry]

So the way you see it is that the Cardinals gave in to his demands, regardless of their position of power. Why? They have Kurt Warner. Why would they just "give in", unless his "demands" were reasonable? This is a Multi-Billion Dollar Business we're discussing, not working at 7-11. And if the Cardinals *did* give into his his demands, why didn't they do it sooner? Your position makes no sense to me, how the player's at fault here.



Major difference of opinion. As I mentioned earlier, this is the way the system works. It was agreed upon by the owners and the NFL Players Union. Regardless of fan opinion, this is the way the NFL has chosen to operate. Every NFL rookie knows how this works, which is why they hire agents. Why "hate" on a guy who is working within the system?I don't have a problem with him holding out, or getting the most he can. But lets look at the last half of that sentance shall we.

Wouldn't you agree, that ML held out a year too long? I mean, I don't see how you can go any higher than #1, so holding out for another year in college when he had absolutely nothing to prove was just plain stupid. IMHO, he cost himself last years salary, he will never get that year back, AND, how many positions in the draft. You can't go higher than #!, which he was the consensus #! pick a year ago. STUPID STUPID STUPID.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Calcountry]

He had a chance to be King of LA for one more year, and the chance to be part of the greatest college team ever (had the won their last game) vs. being pounded into the ground game in game out like Alex Smith.

Why the vitriol against him? He wants the most money he can get, and the Cardinals want to pay him the least they can get away with. That's called negotiating.

He's broken no laws, thrown no teammates under the bus. He's simply made a choice. Why the need morally judge the guy about his preferences for personal glory at USC vs. a few million lost dollars? My guess is that about 50% of the board would have done the same thing, and 50% would have taken the sure thing.

I fail to see what he has done to make him a villain.There is a difference between College glory hounds, like Leinert, and NFL Champions, like Joe Montana and Tom Brady.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't have a problem with him holding out, or getting the most he can. But lets look at the last half of that sentance shall we.

Wouldn't you agree, that ML held out a year too long? I mean, I don't see how you can go any higher than #1, so holding out for another year in college when he had absolutely nothing to prove was just plain stupid. IMHO, he cost himself last years salary, he will never get that year back, AND, how many positions in the draft. You can't go higher than #!, which he was the consensus #! pick a year ago. STUPID STUPID STUPID.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

No, I don't agree. As someone put it earlier, he was the King of Los Angeles. Not Kobe, not Shaq, not Phil but Matt Leinart. He went to the best parties, hung out with super models and the super famous, led his team to another National Championship game (in which his defense cost him the game) and graduated from college. As they say in the commercial, Priceless.

The biggest problem I have with the "haters" is that they're blaming Leinart for the holdout and not holding the Cardinals accountable, whatsoever. I find that to be completely and utterly ill-informed and ludicrous, especially given the history of that particular franchise.

If he had come out last year, he would have recieved more guaranteed money, but he would have gone to a far worse team and quite possibly, an even worse owner in John York. I think it worked out for him just fine.

[Jim Jones]

Funny how sports fans always complain when athletes skip school early and head for the money, but when a guy wants to stay in college longer, he's now being ridiculed for it.

[Mecca]

It's as simple as this.......people other than me cause I'm a fan hate USC. For a little more than a year now it's been nothing but constant bashing of USC and everything USC related.

It's become really laughable honestly, threads about how Matt Leinart is a douche, threads about how Reggie Bush is an asshole for wanting to wear number 5 and all sorts of other ridiculous bullshit.

This board and well most of the nation at this point has an unhealthy obsession with USC and it's stars and how they hate them. It's a nice hint of jealously that once someone is good people don't like them.....but hey if you wanna bash on USC....why don't you bring your little teams like Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri and Iowa out to LA and see what happens......I'm guessing they'll get assraped and sent home crying.

In short I find the jealously alot of you have toward USC really funny because well, my teams better than your teams.....

[007]

hell, I don't like any teams outside the Big XII. Nothing personal.

[Mecca]

hell, I don't like any teams outside the Big XII. Nothing personal.

I don't enjoy the big 12 because everyone is running the 1975 offense. You got the spread option and teams that well don't even know how to play offense in the conference.

Even the bad Pac-10 teams are fun to watch because they know how to run a passing offense. The Pac-10 is much more pro style offensivly than any other conference to me that makes it alot more fun to watch.

An example of the difference in the Pac-10 and other conferences......2 years ago Auburn hires a guy who well a shitty coordinator from the Pac, all of the sudden they have an offense and go undefeated because they actually have someone who understands a passing game.

Offensivly the Pac-10 is so far ahead of the other conferences it isn't even funny. I like USC so that helps but I think it's the best conference to watch play because it's not loaded with a bunch of teams who are getting blown for having great defenses when in reality it's more just bad offense.

[007]

I don't enjoy the big 12 because everyone is running the 1975 offense. You got the spread option and teams that well don't even know how to play offense in the conference.

Even the bad Pac-10 teams are fun to watch because they know how to run a passing offense. The Pac-10 is much more pro style offensivly than any other conference to me that makes it alot more fun to watch.

An example of the difference in the Pac-10 and other conferences......2 years ago Auburn hires a guy who well a shitty coordinator from the Pac, all of the sudden they have an offense and go undefeated because they actually have someone who understands a passing game.

Offensivly the Pac-10 is so far ahead of the other conferences it isn't even funny. I like USC so that helps but I think it's the best conference to watch play because it's not loaded with a bunch of teams who are getting blown for having great defenses when in reality it's more just bad offense.


Don't neccessarily disagree with you on the offense issue. I just feel strongly about supporting the teams in my region is all. Not that I really support the Tigers, being a KU fan of course. :)

It is hard to care about other conferences when all you really hear about is your own conference anyway. I only have access to the standard network channels since I don't subscribe to extended basic cable, thus limiting my college football exposure.