GO# DA*& There goes 2-3 picks in the Draft @##%$$#

[Dave Lane]

Play the rookies lose out and we have a chance next year! Win now and screw next year to death! We might even have to keep the Stooges what a HORRIBLE day for the Chiefs, I think I may be sick.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Oh, please...

The difference between drafting 8th and 15th is negligible at best.

Get a grip, take a deep breath and either enjoy watching the game or stop watching until next year.

I thought it was a great game. Donnie and Maslowski played great, Hasty and Woods came through when they needed to, we sacked Buerlien 6 times.... This is what we should have been seeing from this D a few weeks ago.

I'm quite pleased that we won.

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Misplaced Chiefs Fan
Red and Gold on the Warpath
Nightwolf Graphics (http://www.nightwolfgraphics.com)

[Pitt Gorilla]

Any loser that WANTS their team to lose has problems. I haven't felt this good in weeks. T-Rich looked good, as did the O and D lines. Fumbles were the only problems. As the announcer quoted, we lost our last 3 games by a total of 11 pts. This is not a BAD football team. And as long as MAZ is on the field, the Chiefs will NOT tank!!!

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GO PITT!

[DaKCMan AP]

No true fan can hope their team loses, no matter what advantages it might have. I could never want the Chiefs to lose...it's not in my blood.

[DaWolf]

Oh please. That is pathetic. Any person that roots for his team to lose is not a fan. There is no guaruntee that a higher draft pick will pan out. Look at Plaxico Burress vs Sylvester Morris...

[NFLMarty]

Dave-

No offense bud, but your logic, or way of thinking, is off base. Draft picks mean nothing these days....more and more STARTERS are coming from the later rounds.

Pretty sad someone is rooting for the Chiefs to fail to grab a higher draft pick.<P>

[DaWolf]

Let's put it this way, how many years in a row have a Cincinnati or an Arizona or a Chicago or all these teams tanked it, and what has top choices gotten them? It's not about the pick, it about how smart you are with the choices you have...

[Dave Lane]

But what you are all missing is that 3 things happen here.


1) Higher draft pick. Would be nice to pick in the top ten instead of letting Carl use his excuse of "well look where we draft."


2) Easier schedule for next year. Again can be helpful and let you make a rebound to a playoff team quickly.


3) The all important one - Keeping the Three Stooges on staff. This is what makes me sick. I don't know if I can take another year of JR and Stock. If the whole group is sh*t canned they can win out as far as I care but the stooges HAVE to go! Thats why winning a meaningless game like this is so painful to me. If you are just a passing "fan" this wouldn't matter because "they are the Chiefs and who cares if they win or get better I'm still a fan." It does matter to me I want to see the Chiefs regain their swagger and pride and get good coaching in here. If it means losing (ie taking a step back) so be it. That's what I mean, anyone disagree with that?

[This message has been edited by Dave Lane (edited 12-10-2000).]

[kcred]

I am most bothered about retaining Gunther and crew. If it takes us 14 games to win a one point contest against a 6-8 team, we are never going to the playoffs again. I can appreciate your thoughts Dave, I too, am ambivalent toward the Chiefs right now. I can see the positives in losing, but also the negatives. I would hate to see this team start next year with an 8 game losing streak. Draft picks be damned, Gunther and crew must go.

[TEX]

Pit G.,
In response to your post - The Chiefs ARE a BAD team because of COACHING! This game does NOTHING to convince me that this staff can do anything good on a consistent basis - unless you count being "consistently inconsistent" as a good thing. Just my opinion.

[Logical]

Dave,

I do not think we are missing a thing. I have been in this exact situation in the 80's. You should always enjoy a win by your team, that is number 1. Number two in this situation is you do not need to be torn apart by a loss, even though it might have improved draft position and possible opposition for the next season. Finally and this is key, coaches are judged by the overall performance of the team when you get to a record such as this. Today our team won, the coached did not perform stellar, probably not a bad enough job to ensure they will be let go, but definitely not good enough to over overcome their overall poor performance all season. That is how the last two games will be judged as well.

Here's to hoping and believing we will beat the Broncos, yet not being surprised or torn up if we do not.

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 12-10-2000).]

[Raiderhater]

Dave, you make me sick! Bandwagon fan.

Where were all you people earlier this week? It seems like everyone had taken David Lanes point of view. I tried to dispel this idea as a bad one, but I was told I was wrong. I sure could have used some help then. Oh well.

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WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

[This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 12-10-2000).]

[Phobia]

Shut your ****in hole, raiderhader. Jeez - can't you understand that people have different ways of dealing with the adversity? One way is to act like you don't care and that things will turn out better this way. That's what Dave is saying. Stop attacking him for it - it's just the way he feels. If we attack people for every viewpoint, pretty soon everyone is afraid to speak their mind. Disagree all you want - but the way Dave feels doesn't make him any more or less a fan than you or anyone else here. Our team BLOWS right now in case you haven't noticed. That's pretty tough for some people to handle....

Weren't you the one that stated about a month ago that you were turning in your colors on the other board?

[Mi_chief_fan]

Looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

It's no more right attacking raiderhader than raiderhader attacking someone else.

[Raiderhater]

KPhobia, a little defensive? If I remember correctly, you are one those who agree with Dave. I know that people deal with things in different ways, but I am sick and tired of this BS. Quiting on your team when they are down and out is dispicable. Lets say you are going through tough times, and all of your friends deserted you. Would that make it easier or harder for you to get back on your feet? Think about it. And no I am not the one who talked about turning in my colors. That was r8er h8er. And you have the nerve to attack me, while at the same time telling me not to attack somebodyelse? Check your facts next time.

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WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Kphobia

I think you're mistaking Raiderhater with r8erh8er. He's the one who was going to get rid of all his stuff. Raiderhater (spelled out) has been VERY consistant all season.

I think you're taking this a tad seriously, guy. As I explained to Dave, the difference between 8th and 15th pick is minimal to none. Face it, where did Denver get their best picks, first or sixth round?

And whether *WE* like it or not, someone other than this board will determine who comes back next year or not. There's no reason to be so defensive. A LOT of us disagree with Dave.

I'd rather the Chiefs finished 8-8 on a three game surge than to go 5-11. Losing is contageous and if we were to tank 8 in a row, I have little doubt that it would carry over to next year. Sure, play the young guys, like we did today, but I'd rather they got used to winning than losing.

I'll NEVER root for the Chiefs to lose, no matter what "ephimerial" strategic advantage we might get. Cincinatti, Atlanta, New England, Chicago, etc. haven't been able to parlay all those high draft picks into much these past few years have they? There's no guarantee that a high-draft position means success (Burress, Taylor, Warwick, Franks...)

But, this is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

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Misplaced Chiefs Fan
Red and Gold on the Warpath
Nightwolf Graphics (http://www.nightwolfgraphics.com)

[Raiderhater]

MCF, thanks for the verification. You know r8er h8er put that post up because of a bet he made with someone. I want to say it was for a fair sum of money to. But the bet was that if he told everyone he couldn't take it any longer and had to find a new team, all the other fans would try to bring him back. It didn't work, they said adios and don't come back. And then wheen he told them it was just a hoax because of this bet, everyone told him to take a hike anyways for doing something like that. :)

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WILDCATS 29
corn balls 28

[Cannibal]

If losing out is what it takes for us to be rid of the current management/coaching staff, then I'm all for it. <P>

[Pitt Gorilla]

I've posted this before, and I'll attempt to do it again. Getting mid to late first round draft picks is NOT a BAD thing!!! Why people cannot see this is beyond me. Consider Tony G., Slymo, Woods, Riley, Tait. They were all mid to late first round picks and are all now very good players at their position. The best part is that their contracts are very reasonable for being first rounders. I mean, look at Tony G's contract. He makes MAYBE a millon or so a year, as does Slymo and the rest. Tony is also THE best TE in the game. Now Consider Courtney Brown, Arrington, Samuels, Manning, Couch, etc. Sure these guys are good players, maybe even the best at their position. However, that goodness comes at a price. Courtney Brown, although I'm not sure of the specifics, makes at least ten million a year. Couch is getting close to that, as is Arrington and Samuels. Now compare Brown's performance to that of Tony G. or Slymo. Is he worth 9 million more per year against the salary cap? I don't believe so. That money could be better spent on fourth rounders like Donnie or undrafted FA's like Hicks or Maz. They payoff will be there for most of the lottery guys, but to me, it is no different than signing a really expensive FA, whom you alone have the exclusive rights to. The payoff is also usually there for the late first rounders, whom the Chiefs have built their success around. 9-7, 10-6 give us the best of both worlds. Remember, TD was a sixth rounder, Mike Anderson a seventh. Draft well, and the salary cap will take care of itself.

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GO PITT!

[Brock]

Tony G.-definitely great
Slymo-jury is out
Woods-average
Riley-average
Tait-looks average so far

The cornerstone of the Chiefs of the nineties was two early first-round draft picks, Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas. They're both gone for various reasons, now the team looks average. All those years of picking late have caught up to us.

[DaWolf]

Of course two decades of high draft picks got us nowhere before Carl and Marty either...

[Pitt Gorilla]

Brock, I hope you're kidding about Riley and Tait.... Most sources have them graded out as at least better than average. Riley single blocked Reggie all day. Tait has been compared favorably to Boselli. Just watch the games!

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GO PITT!

[Chiefnj]

Pitt Gorilla,

You are correct, signing an early round pick does cost more money. However, do you think the Eagles are worried about the money they paid McNabb? Or how about the Vikings and Culpepper?

I'm with Cannibal on the winning/losing argument. I will support whatever it takes to get rid of our current management and coaching situation.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Is there a better back than Curtis Martin (3rd rounder)? I guess TD might be (6th). Is there a better QB than Warner (undrafted)? Grbac's not too bad (8th). Draft position means little. Ask the Bears about McNown, Enis, Salaam, etc. vs. a guy like Marcus Robinson or Miller. The lottery has been littered with guys like Ki Janna, Leaf, Wadsworth, Burress, Klingler, BLACKLEDGE when better alternatives were available in later picks. (Mario or Kelly might have been better).

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GO PITT!

[Chiefnj]

Pitt,

If higher draft picks are so comparable to lower ones, why in the world do teams give, and ask for, an arm and a leg to move up? Why did the Chiefs have to move up for Gonzalez? I'm sure the #2 TE was just as good (LaFLeur).

[Brock]

Pitt - Riley blocked 100-year old Reggie White all by himself? I'm impressed.

Tait compared to Boselli? Get real. Tait isn't half the run-blocker Boselli is. Boselli dominated as a rookie. Tait hasn't even come close.

[DJay23]

As someone said earlier, where were all you holy roller fans all week long? In fact this discussion has been raging since the San Diego game.

This situation reminds me of the blow up clowns with the sand in the bottom. We have been getting punched (tough schedule, poor coaching) only to pop back up (7-9/9-7 record, promising stretches during season) and then get hit again. Eventually we are going to have to stay down (Double digit losses, poor rankings in off/def/st) for a bit before we come back hard and knock the fist back (New coaches, easier schedule, WINNING SEASON and Play offs!) that's been hitting us. Winning a game like this does nothing but help keep Gun and his idiotic coaching tendencies. Don't get me wrong, I am having trouble rooting against the Chiefs (Glad to hear the words Chiefs and win in the same sentence for the first time since early November). But in the long run it should turn out for the better.

Imagine if we run the table and go 8-8. We will have just as tough of a schedule as this year and Gun and probably most of his dufuses will remain. If you can't see this or understand it then have fun continuing to have your heart stomped on as a talented team is driven into the ground by a garbage coaching staff. Anyway, I know everyone is psyched about the win so enjoy, I just hope we don't end up saying this April, " If we only had lost one more game we could have gotten 'Fill in Top DE'".

[Dave Lane]

I think a few people are still missing the point... I AM rooting for the Chiefs. As Gaz says I bleed red and piss gold. I watch every game and hope that the team will be good.


That being said this team's management is ludicrous. JR and Stock get most of my ire. If they return I may go postal and take them out. I'm for a complete firing of Assistants and don't really care if Gun goes as well. CP is OK if he cleans house. Bring in Kubiak from Denver and lets get some young talent. Let Gun be DC if he wants (its what he is really good at) how about Norv Turner for OC? I'd be OK with that.

[Phobia]

Sorry you guys took my post to be so harsh. I didn't mean for it to sound that bad. Like I said last week, I challenge anyone to come into my living room on gameday and say I'm not a fan. I want KC to win out emotionally. Realistically, I realize that if we lose the rest of our games, we'll be better for it. I can separate the two. Ciao

[KCTitus]

Although our draft position did change, our potential schedule is unaffected as a result of Seattle's loss to Denver. Next weeks game will also not have an impact on next years schedule as we will remain in 3rd place in the division regardless.

If we lose to Donks and Seattle beats Oakland, they will both be 6-9 but KC will remain in 3rd because of the two defeats over Seattle.

Chiefnj: teams move up primarily because of the increased probability that they will draft a big time player. It's not a guarantee, however.

[Baby Lee]

For me, there is a deep gulf between rationalizing beforehand that a loss will bring about positive things and therefore not really hoping for a win, AND getting pi$$ed when the team actually does win.

[Phobia]

JC, that's where my line is as well. I'm pleased with the win. However, I'm not about to judge Dave or attack him because his value is different than mine.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I wouldn't mind having JR back. I mean, Elvis has THRIVED in this offense. TRICH ran with abandon and minus fumbles and picks (I don't think Raye called these), we could have won going away. No one can guarantee that bringing in a new offense would provide anything better.

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GO PITT!

[Dave Lane]

OK JC You need to explain to me why winning any of our remaining games is important? I don't want to see the three stooges back next year. I can't stand that (*&$$#@(*(%##$@(*)& moron JR! A chimp could call a better game than he does. I find myself thinking "you know Paul Hackett wasn't all that bad" and that's scary! I can see every play KC calls before they run it based on package and formation. If I can so can our opposition.


If you can't figure out the damage the three stooges can do next year let me suggest grammar school, which they appeared to skip. Another season of horrible play calling, missed opportunities and inadequate leadership may be fine for you but not me. I feel like Danny Schnieder tonight. Line them up against the wall... FIRE! :MAD: