View Full Version : WR Branch to the Jets if he wins Grievance
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Why New York and not Seattle?
Posted by John Tomase at 10:16 pm
It’s been a common question this afternoon. If Deion Branch wins his grievance, why would he be traded to the Jets and not the Seahawks, since both teams offered him the same contract (6 years, $39 million, $13 million signing bonus) and both seem willing to give up a second round pick to get him?
It turns out that only the Jets have officially offered the Patriots a pick. The Seahawks got in the game relatively late and while word out of the Emerald City is that they would surrender a second-round pick for Branch, they never actually offered one. Less clear is whether the ‘Hawks would give up a first round pick. While Branch was a second-round pick himself, the Seahawks recognize that he has played beyond his draft position.
Chiefs Pantalones
09-02-2006, 08:59 PM
I'm sure the Pats wouldn't mind seeing Branch twice a year, since Pennington is the one throwing the ball to him so there is no worries.
Mecca
09-02-2006, 09:00 PM
The Jets 2nd round pick is fair value for Branch seeing as it will be a high 2nd rounder.
While Branch was a second-round pick himself, the Seahawks recognize that he has played beyond his draft position.
He has had his moments but he has never, IMO, played beyond his draft position. He hasn't topped 1,000 yards receiving in his career yet. He gets his reputation from a couple of highly visible games. Outside of those games he is pretty average in stats.
He has had his moments but he has never, IMO, played beyond his draft position. He hasn't topped 1,000 yards receiving in his career yet. He gets his reputation from a couple of highly visible games. Outside of those games he is pretty average in stats.
that is a great analysis!!!
and having brady chucking the rock does not hurt either..
Mecca
09-02-2006, 09:15 PM
He has had his moments but he has never, IMO, played beyond his draft position. He hasn't topped 1,000 yards receiving in his career yet. He gets his reputation from a couple of highly visible games. Outside of those games he is pretty average in stats.
He had 998 yards......
Amnorix
09-02-2006, 10:31 PM
He has had his moments but he has never, IMO, played beyond his draft position. He hasn't topped 1,000 yards receiving in his career yet. He gets his reputation from a couple of highly visible games. Outside of those games he is pretty average in stats.
Check the average success rate of 2nd round picks...
Amnorix
09-02-2006, 10:31 PM
He had 998 yards......
Would've/should've been a thousand. We put him in for one last play when we found out where he was at. He caught like a 7 yard in-cut or whatever, but it was nullified by penalty. Oh well.
BucEyedPea
09-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Will one of the lawyers on this board explain to me how an oral promise (if it was oral and if that's what they actually promised) supercedes Branch's written contract?
I really don't understand this. :spock:
and...
Wouldn't the idea of what is "fair" or the "value" of the trade really be somewhat subjective... as being more in the eye's of the Pat's since they didn't have to even let him seek the new contract/trade at all?
Amnorix
09-02-2006, 11:38 PM
Will one of the lawyers on this board explain to me how an oral promise (if it was oral and if that's what they actually promised) supercedes Branch's written contract?
I really don't understand this. :spock:
and...
Wouldn't the idea of what is "fair" or the "value" of the trade really be somewhat subjective... as being more in the eye's of the Pat's since they didn't have to even let him seek the new contract/trade at all?
An oral agreement can still be an enforceable agreement. And even subjective terms could have a reasonableness standard applied to them under the right circumstances.
BucEyedPea
09-03-2006, 08:55 AM
An oral agreement can still be an enforceable agreement. And even subjective terms could have a reasonableness standard applied to them under the right circumstances.
Thanks. Just a little more clarification:
Does the oral promise supercede the written contract?
Amnorix
09-03-2006, 03:43 PM
Thanks. Just a little more clarification:
Does the oral promise supercede the written contract?
No, they're two separate agreements regarding two separate subject matters. The written agreement relates to the terms and conditions under which Branch will play for the Patriots. The "oral agreement" (if there is one) relates to whether Branch will be traded to play for another team.
Skip Towne
09-03-2006, 03:50 PM
Even though they both offered 2nd rounders, there is a world of difference in the two picks. The Jets are a likely top 5 slot in the draft and the Seahawks will draft near the bottom.
Bob Glauber
FOOTBALL
Patriots ready to cut their Branch losses?
September 3, 2006
The Patriots continue to play hardball with holdout receiver Deion Branch, but this time they may have met their match.
Branch remains under contract with the former Super Bowl champs, and as of Friday, it appeared he either would return to the Patriots under their terms or wouldn't come back at all, twisting in the wind until the case was decided through a grievance.
Then again, based on what happened yesterday afternoon - when New England acquired receiver Doug Gabriel from the Raiders - maybe the Patriots are ready to stop fighting.
The Patriots had given Branch a week to work out a new deal with another team and then see if New England would agree to a trade. But after Branch found two suitors - the Jets and the Seahawks - and agreed to terms on a six-year, $39-million contract with both teams, the Patriots declined their trade offers. They issued a terse two-sentence statement Friday, saying they could not work out a deal and that Branch remained under contract.
The Patriots need to either pay Branch or let him go. The Seahawks and Jets remain interested, and perhaps the Patriots were paving the way for a Branch trade - more than likely to the Seahawks, given that they're in the other conference - by acquiring Gabriel. He's no Branch, but at least he'll be around to suit up when the season starts.
A week ago, the Patriots seemed to think there was no way Branch would find a team willing to meet his asking price. But Branch had no problem drawing the kind of attention he was seeking, soliciting deals with $13 million in guaranteed money from both the Jets and Seattle. The total value of the deal was $10 million more than New England was offering, according to league sources.
"Man, I hope he ends up in Seattle," said Don Hasselbeck, father of Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck. "You don't think Matt would love to have him right now?"
The Jets would love to have him, too, but sources indicate New England is uncomfortable trading within the division. The next step will take place sometime this week when a grievance hearing is held. Unless a trade happens first.
"Even in the football arena, teams and team officials have an obligation to abide by their agreements and live by their representations," said Branch's attorney, Peter Ginsburg, who will participate in the grievance process. "The Patriots made a binding offer to Deion, Deion accepted the offer, and both the Seahawks and the Jets more than satisfied New England's conditions. It's a shame now the Patriots are attempting to use their unfair and coercive position against Deion in a way that threatens to compromise his career. We look forward to protecting Deion's rights and obtaining a favorable resolution in the upcoming proceedings."
It might be a long shot for an arbitrator to rule that the Patriots indeed have to trade Branch just because two teams came forward with offers. But Branch's representatives will argue that recent compensation for receiver trades is in line with what the Jets and Seahawks have offered. The Jets offered a second-round pick, and Seattle is likely to match that price. The Patriots want at least a first-round pick, but three recent trades involving receivers tell you that is too high:
Cormac
09-03-2006, 05:34 PM
He has had his moments but he has never, IMO, played beyond his draft position.
Huh? He's a frigging SuperBowl MVP and a very solid WR. His numbers aren't huge, but the Pats happen to be the definition of "balanced". What more is your average 2nd round pick supposed to do??? Just because Jerry Rice was a 7th rounder, or wherever, doesn't mean that's normal. People overrate draft picks so much.
Huh? He's a frigging SuperBowl MVP and a very solid WR. His numbers aren't huge, but the Pats happen to be the definition of "balanced". What more is your average 2nd round pick supposed to do??? Just because Jerry Rice was a 7th rounder, or wherever, doesn't mean that's normal. People overrate draft picks so much.
Jerry Rice was a 1st round pick..
and secondly..branch made big plays in big high profile games which always elevates anybody to god status..but just remember who is chucking the rock to branch too..
the patriot offense is not skipping a beat without him..
Chieftain58
09-03-2006, 06:11 PM
Make him play out his contract he signed it...
TrueBeliever
09-03-2006, 06:27 PM
This thread (http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17765&pagenumber=2) from PatriotsPlanet pretty much explains how we feel about it. The best post, IMHO, is from MrNFLfan towards the bottom.
We're sick of this whole situation. Basically Branch and Chayut know BB isn't going to give in so they're stirring the pot in the media in a desperate attempt to make the franchise look bad. In an uncharacteristic move, the Pats actually made an offer with a contract worth $18-19 million over three years, and Chayut refused to even negotiate, instead went crying to Ron "Pats Hater" Borges of the Boston Globe.
Hound333
09-03-2006, 07:32 PM
Make him play out his contract he signed it...
So did the patriots, yet they won't blink about dropping him if his skills go down. He thinks he's worth more so he's making a play. People are willing to pay it so there must be more than a few who think he is worth it. Of course they are willing because they can cut him if it turns out he sucks.
This thread (http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17765&pagenumber=2) from PatriotsPlanet pretty much explains how we feel about it. The best post, IMHO, is from MrNFLfan towards the bottom.
We're sick of this whole situation. Basically Branch and Chayut know BB isn't going to give in so they're stirring the pot in the media in a desperate attempt to make the franchise look bad. In an uncharacteristic move, the Pats actually made an offer with a contract worth $18-19 million over three years, and Chayut refused to even negotiate, instead went crying to Ron "Pats Hater" Borges of the Boston Globe.
I agree with you on branch..but..dont you think BB's tactic of the week to negotiate with other teams blew up in his face???
TrueBeliever
09-03-2006, 07:44 PM
I agree with you on branch..but..dont you think BB's tactic of the week to negotiate with other teams blew up in his face???
What do you mean - letting him try to seek out a trade, or demanding two first-round picks?
BucEyedPea
09-03-2006, 07:46 PM
I agree with you on branch..but..dont you think BB's tactic of the week to negotiate with other teams blew up in his face???
Sorta! I can understand not wanting to trade to a rival. At the time, I read it was unofficial that the SH's offered an actual pick. I think they thought it would handle the stalemate...maybe it has, but someone will overpay. Still we don't really know what they actually said to Branch and his agent. The Pat's haven't fully disclosed their side.
I think it's BS that Branch and his agent are citing "renegging" when that's exactly what they did.
I hope karma follows the agent and Branch.
What do you mean - letting him try to seek out a trade, or demanding two first-round picks?
no..the money aspect..BB did not think other teams would throw that kind of moolah branch's way
Ugly Duck
09-03-2006, 07:57 PM
Even though they both offered 2nd rounders, there is a world of difference in the two picks. The Jets are a likely top 5 slot in the draft and the Seahawks will draft near the bottom.Gabriel was the last pick of the 5th round in 2003. Now folks are saying that Oakland is getting shafted by taking a 5th rounder for him. It'll be a higher 5th rounder than dead last, I reckon.....
Sorta! I can understand not wanting to trade to a rival. At the time, I read it was unofficial that the SH's offered an actual pick. I think they thought it would handle the stalemate...maybe it has, but someone will overpay. Still we don't really know what they actually said to Branch and his agent. The Pat's haven't fully disclosed their side.
I think it's BS that Branch and his agent are citing "renegging" when that's exactly what they did.
I hope karma follows the agent and Branch.
no what I meant was both the jets and seahawks agreed on a price with branch(money)..and I'm sure BB did not expect them to reach agreement or give out that much money that quickly..the compensation is another matter..branch is done with the patriots now..he's burned his bridges..
JohnnyV13
09-04-2006, 01:02 AM
Thanks. Just a little more clarification:
Does the oral promise supercede the written contract?
Just to add to amnorix's comments, you seem to think an agreement is not "real" unless its written.
While there are some circumstances in which agreements are required to be written to be enforceable in law, oral agreements are no less "legal" than written ones. The problem with oral contracts is evidence.
In some circumstances, even gestures are sufficient to form a contract. The primary example of this type are the hand signals made in the chicago commodities exchange between traders. These hand signals are enforceable contracts and are considered more reliable than spoken words.
Amnorix
09-04-2006, 01:13 AM
I agree with you on branch..but..dont you think BB's tactic of the week to negotiate with other teams blew up in his face???
No talks for months, by all accounts, so they tried to do something to shake things up. Can't blame 'em for that.
Of course, I drink the BB Kool-Aid, so I'm not exactly unbiased...
Sure-Oz
09-04-2006, 01:18 AM
So is Doug Gabriel their official #1 wr now?
Amnorix
09-04-2006, 01:34 AM
So is Doug Gabriel their official #1 wr now?
No, definitely not. Brady doesn't throw to guys he's not very comfortable with, which makes me nervous about his willignness to employ his WRs this year, as he's not comfortable with any of them other than Troy Brown, really.
But, Brady likes to say that his favorite receiver is whoever is open. Guess we'll see.
BucEyedPea
09-04-2006, 02:10 AM
Just to add to amnorix's comments, you seem to think an agreement is not "real" unless its written.
You're not understanding the question I really asked.
I actually know a fair amount of business and contract law because I am self employed and have to. I've had contract disputes and oral disputes; I've been to court, in mediation and arbitration. I know an oral agreement can be a contract...I've used that and won. I understand you're trying to help but I know most of the stuff in this post and don't think any such thing about a non-written agreement.
That wasn't the question I asked.
I was more asking how this new oral agreement, if there was one, superceded, the written contract. My understanding is that Branch hasn't even completed his contract...so where does he have a right to appeal this favor the Pats extended to him was what I was questioning.
No talks for months, by all accounts, so they tried to do something to shake things up. Can't blame 'em for that.
Of course, I drink the BB Kool-Aid, so I'm not exactly unbiased...
gotchya..
so how do you see this unfolding???
branch has obviously burned his bridges with the pats..and nobody is offering the pats what they are asking for compensation wise..
If I was a patriot fan I would be fuming at that lil fu*ker :cuss:
This thread (http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17765&pagenumber=2) the Pats actually made an offer with a contract worth $18-19 million over three years, and Chayut refused to even negotiate, instead went crying to Ron "Pats Hater" Borges of the Boston Globe.
That was a pretty generous offer made by the Patriots IMO. That is 6+ mil a season. How much more does he think he deserves?
I think Branch is a good receiver but he has never put up the numbers, throughout an entire season, like an elite receiver has put up. T.O., Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith, Joe Horn, and Randy Moss. When he does that is when he'll deserve to get paid like them not before.
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