5 year, 100,000 mile warranty!!!

[recxjake]

1

[SPchief]

Its spamtastic

[unlurking]

Great, something I already have on my import! yippee!

Way to come to the table late GM!

:D

[sedated]

- But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

- Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit.

Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will.

I got spare time.

[chief2000]

Going out of business.

[Eleazar]

A warranty only makes a POS car slightly more tolorable.

People want reliability, not warranties.

[oldandslow]

Toyota 5year 60,000
Honday 5 year 60,000

BS--I have 7 year, 100,000 on my Prius right now.

[htismaqe]

BS--I have 7 year, 100,000 on my Prius right now.

Don't argue with jake. The website says so and there's no way that you ever got a deal that disagrees with the website.

By the way, I have the same 7-year 100k warranty on my Corolla.

[Saulbadguy]

10 year, 100,000 mile warranty is much better.

[StcChief]

so now they could use the professional grade in the gmc commercials :rolleyes:

[NJ Chief Fan]

GM SUCKS

[Bowser]

Why would I want to buy a car from a bankrupt company?

[htismaqe]

So the dealership gave you an extra year and 40,000 extra miles?

They had a deal at the time I bought mine specifically around Corolla and Prius. It included a free upgrade to the extended powertrain warranty which is 7 years, 100k miles.

EDIT: It's not an extra year, it's TWO extra years. The powertrain warranty is 5 years, 60k miles.

[htismaqe]

Why would I want to buy a car from a bankrupt company?

Because you love America.

Only communists that hate America would buy a foreign car.

[listopencil]

Aliquam dui. Fusce aliquet, augue quis feugiat tincidunt, nulla nibh vestibulum massa, id nonummy risus dolor non sapien. Ut nisi. Suspendisse ornare condimentum ligula. Integer posuere ante aliquam erat. Cras sagittis, sem at molestie pretium, nunc lacus consequat orci, ac viverra purus lacus a tortor. Vivamus tristique. Nullam non quam at nunc dapibus volutpat. Cras suscipit lacinia sem. Vivamus ac enim. Duis metus pede, venenatis non, mollis nec, semper vel, massa.

Aliquam non sapien. Suspendisse potenti. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Aliquam sit amet nulla sed eros auctor porta. Phasellus tincidunt tristique nulla. Morbi ligula sem, mollis a, rutrum ac, lacinia at, ante. Aliquam mattis mattis mi. Phasellus non dui. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Aliquam orci augue, dictum et, egestas dignissim, pharetra quis, arcu. Integer velit sem, mollis dignissim, tristique ac, consectetuer ac, mi. Ut ante dui, dignissim sed, egestas ac, pellentesque id, urna. Aliquam sed leo eget urna feugiat cursus. Vivamus urna mi, consequat in, imperdiet vitae, semper eu, est.

In eu tellus ac tellus tempor convallis. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Etiam sit amet justo. Mauris viverra nisl at nisl. Sed et sapien et ligula placerat consequat. Pellentesque libero augue, consequat dignissim, pulvinar vel, consequat vitae, massa. Suspendisse interdum ligula at quam. Vestibulum velit. In sit amet felis. Proin lobortis sagittis justo. Fusce quis nulla.

Curabitur vestibulum. Sed justo. Donec tincidunt fringilla urna. Vivamus a dolor. Quisque laoreet augue ut arcu. Ut nisi ipsum, euismod at, tempus a, posuere sed, tortor. Nunc mi ligula, tincidunt at, scelerisque sed, porta quis, purus. Curabitur egestas. Proin felis. Phasellus tempus tortor vel tellus. Sed purus lacus, porta quis, faucibus quis, interdum at, tellus. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Vestibulum quam risus, pretium at, ullamcorper vitae, cursus ut, diam. Aenean fermentum magna eget sem. Maecenas dapibus nulla non nisl. Pellentesque dictum, neque at interdum scelerisque, velit mauris hendrerit turpis, in accumsan pede ligula eget massa. Fusce sodales condimentum lorem. Mauris velit.

Nullam felis. Suspendisse interdum lacus nec pede. Duis mattis vehicula dolor. Sed id nunc. Vivamus vehicula sem nec eros. Vivamus mi. In nisl purus, lobortis vel, posuere ut, mollis vitae, dolor. Maecenas aliquet nulla a leo. Nunc magna erat, placerat ac, adipiscing quis, volutpat at, leo. Sed aliquam interdum neque. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Maecenas nec nibh nec lacus vulputate eleifend. Nam pede. Maecenas quis neque. Pellentesque sed libero quis odio ornare varius. Suspendisse a sapien. Pellentesque viverra, risus nec euismod elementum, ipsum metus tincidunt augue, nec aliquet tellus mi sit amet augue. Ut feugiat, arcu a aliquet euismod, nulla eros sollicitudin dui, quis accumsan pede leo quis risus. Sed nonummy.

Nam id ligula eget magna bibendum mollis. Integer lobortis lacinia mauris. Fusce justo odio, varius ut, pretium sed, vulputate non, massa. Quisque at justo. Cras non nisl. Sed ligula lacus, mollis in, varius eu, consectetuer vel, sapien. Proin eget metus at orci consequat vestibulum. Mauris pede ante, lobortis ut, sollicitudin ac, luctus ut, velit. Fusce varius viverra dui. Quisque a mi vel dolor venenatis interdum. Praesent eu mi non orci posuere mattis. Cras porta ultricies libero. Suspendisse commodo orci eu risus.

Mauris justo tortor, condimentum sit amet, vulputate sed, cursus ac, justo. Aliquam enim orci, eleifend ac, condimentum nec, nonummy nec, purus. Curabitur posuere sollicitudin orci. Nunc diam mi, pretium quis, consequat quis, aliquam nec, diam. Nulla facilisi. In urna. Sed non ligula. Suspendisse vel orci. Phasellus et dui. Quisque viverra imperdiet diam. Quisque laoreet nunc ac mauris. Fusce sed urna vel odio tincidunt mattis. Nunc in magna ac dolor sagittis lacinia. Pellentesque nec ipsum et nunc convallis bibendum. Donec sodales. Nunc ullamcorper leo vitae diam. Integer lobortis. Quisque congue eros vel sem. In facilisis mauris vitae risus. Aliquam molestie.

Donec odio nisl, ornare at, tristique in, placerat vitae, tortor. Integer imperdiet urna at lectus. Morbi eget lorem et turpis consequat condimentum. Maecenas et turpis. Cras condimentum, neque id iaculis pulvinar, est pede vulputate eros, et suscipit magna pede tempor libero. Nullam et orci id est faucibus tincidunt. Quisque tincidunt. Ut ornare orci non nunc. Sed sapien enim, semper in, fringilla vel, mollis at, lorem. Aliquam erat volutpat. Phasellus vel sem. Duis mi felis, ultrices sit amet, interdum quis, ullamcorper ac, enim. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Aenean malesuada est accumsan purus. Phasellus tincidunt risus eu ante.

Proin aliquet pede id quam. Nunc dictum ullamcorper lacus. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Fusce sit amet nisl et purus ullamcorper ultricies. Vestibulum porttitor sem ac dui. Nunc bibendum. Aenean sit amet ante non urna gravida sodales. In nonummy est id purus egestas suscipit. Donec dignissim viverra felis. Nullam ante lectus, elementum vitae, ornare sit amet, blandit molestie, nibh.

Praesent ullamcorper, felis sed mattis cursus, eros pede faucibus tortor, quis tristique elit odio non nisi. In risus diam, egestas vel, cursus nec, vehicula dapibus, urna. In turpis. Integer vitae nibh nec pede iaculis facilisis. Suspendisse id nisi. Cras ante leo, tincidunt imperdiet, feugiat sed, commodo nec, erat. Donec ut enim. Aenean aliquam, magna ac porta nonummy, arcu lectus vehicula nibh, a vehicula ante augue et diam. Nulla condimentum sagittis velit. Nullam facilisis tortor eu mauris. Aenean turpis turpis, ornare vitae, imperdiet non, eleifend vitae, nibh. In euismod mollis massa. Nulla vehicula accumsan orci. Fusce rhoncus nulla sed ante. Etiam massa.

Nam ullamcorper pellentesque dui. Nullam nisl mi, volutpat ac, dapibus quis, cursus nec, nibh. Suspendisse tincidunt tristique nibh. Pellentesque tristique condimentum lectus. Suspendisse potenti. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Aenean eget odio. Vivamus ac augue. Nulla ultrices, sapien et lacinia commodo, lacus eros dictum nunc, a accumsan urna lorem eu nisi. Fusce enim purus, vestibulum ac, faucibus nec, hendrerit sed, orci. Duis euismod justo. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Suspendisse potenti.

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Integer sit amet erat vel massa lobortis vehicula. Donec mollis urna quis enim. Donec et purus in purus ullamcorper feugiat. Ut at pede in augue interdum pretium. Phasellus magna. Pellentesque pulvinar porttitor risus. Vestibulum ut ipsum. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Cras molestie feugiat nulla. Curabitur sed nisl a pede dignissim ullamcorper. Nam a purus. Nam eu sapien. Vestibulum ante ante, egestas id, laoreet non, malesuada in, quam. Quisque laoreet nisi eget lacus. Nulla in arcu. Mauris at arcu. Quisque nec nunc. Pellentesque mollis.

Pellentesque nec augue eget libero rhoncus sagittis. Donec erat pede, gravida et, lobortis eu, imperdiet vel, ipsum. Praesent vel tortor ac nisl consequat dignissim. Nunc risus. Ut aliquam purus vel eros. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Phasellus ipsum risus, euismod ut, pellentesque et, tristique eget, diam. Praesent consectetuer massa ut augue. Integer enim velit, viverra nec, porttitor a, hendrerit eget, metus. Cras nisl nulla, commodo ut, egestas sed, auctor a, neque. Cras nibh ante, dictum non, lobortis sit amet, molestie at, turpis. Duis sodales, lorem in dignissim pretium, purus eros placerat justo, at mollis mauris tortor in nulla. Mauris non nulla.

Ut auctor, nibh eu facilisis gravida, dui leo mollis tortor, malesuada iaculis pede lacus a ipsum. Sed mauris risus, lobortis sit amet, ornare cursus, fermentum at, nisi. Quisque nec augue a nibh porta ultricies. Duis metus. Proin consequat odio. In volutpat blandit nisi. In ut massa. Quisque bibendum metus mollis nisi. Phasellus dapibus justo vel diam. Maecenas eu nibh. Praesent elementum erat non urna. Etiam gravida libero. Sed turpis. Pellentesque nunc magna, vulputate eget, laoreet nec, posuere vitae, ante. Vivamus elementum neque eget justo. Phasellus id nisi eget leo vehicula consequat.

Ut iaculis. Aenean luctus. Curabitur at libero condimentum augue mattis fermentum. Vestibulum viverra. Suspendisse nulla. Etiam non turpis ultrices diam placerat euismod. Maecenas ultricies lacus in dui. Nullam luctus sollicitudin dui. Ut nisl ligula, luctus vitae, vestibulum nec, vestibulum et, arcu. Aenean risus sapien, mollis tempor, congue sit amet, sollicitudin quis, mauris. Nullam posuere semper urna. Donec imperdiet, sapien vel porta posuere, diam sem dapibus nibh, sit amet congue magna nunc gravida massa. Nullam massa ipsum, mattis sit amet, sollicitudin sit amet, porta non, diam. Suspendisse potenti. Proin adipiscing eleifend nisl. Mauris ut felis. Integer magna justo, semper eget, posuere posuere, condimentum vel, felis. In et ligula. Phasellus rutrum, mauris nec eleifend ultricies, ipsum leo commodo sapien, lacinia venenatis nisi lacus vel ante.

Fusce purus. Suspendisse potenti. Quisque volutpat, magna eget vestibulum vestibulum, lectus dui ornare tortor, eget dictum justo tortor sit amet neque. Sed eget magna at nulla imperdiet adipiscing. In ultricies neque sit amet justo. Nullam condimentum enim non dui. Ut mollis lorem porta quam. Proin elementum risus et sem. Aliquam luctus leo nec erat. Proin iaculis elementum diam. Nullam sit amet leo hendrerit velit bibendum vehicula. Suspendisse potenti. Vestibulum dui nunc, feugiat non, mattis vitae, pharetra sit amet, libero. Sed at mauris vitae urna rhoncus vulputate. Praesent condimentum, lacus eu varius consectetuer, nisi elit gravida mauris, quis pretium ante orci sed massa. Vestibulum congue libero ut dolor.

Sed dictum sem at nibh. Praesent viverra. Aenean sit amet sem. Aenean leo. Aenean mattis orci at ipsum. Pellentesque posuere ante non diam. Ut quam eros, convallis eu, condimentum fringilla, pulvinar nec, tellus. Donec eget leo. Morbi hendrerit, nisl sit amet sollicitudin egestas, enim nisi cursus nunc, ut rhoncus orci felis quis nisi. Vivamus quis nibh. Ut in eros.

Donec tempus, ante vitae vulputate tristique, nulla ante sodales erat, non consectetuer augue magna a tellus. Aliquam quam justo, semper vel, condimentum eu, ornare sed, lectus. Aenean imperdiet imperdiet mi. Maecenas condimentum nisi ac quam. Praesent est. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Nullam eros enim, pulvinar eget, feugiat in, faucibus vitae, nunc. Nulla laoreet. Pellentesque adipiscing elementum est. Vestibulum auctor enim eu lorem. Vivamus ipsum nulla, viverra quis, tristique quis, feugiat id, libero. Aliquam sit amet ipsum.

Nullam sed lorem. Maecenas rhoncus lectus ut lorem. Sed auctor viverra magna. Nunc ultricies pretium eros. Mauris tempor, urna non ultricies suscipit, odio orci sodales sapien, eu venenatis sem felis non felis. Praesent eget libero. Donec sed metus vitae libero aliquet rutrum. Sed id justo. Aliquam elementum ultrices ipsum. Donec et justo in lacus lacinia pellentesque. Morbi nibh elit, semper non, placerat quis, elementum vel, sapien. Suspendisse nec tellus in massa dapibus vehicula. Nam adipiscing cursus nisl. Ut pede nunc, suscipit sed, suscipit nec, auctor ac, risus. Praesent consectetuer tristique urna. Phasellus nisi pede, iaculis quis, rhoncus in, gravida ac, purus.

[Bowser]

Take that witchcraft shit back to the Drain!

[listopencil]

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/inlines/05_vllgr.jpg

[Bowser]

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/inlines/05_vllgr.jpg

BURN HER!!

[listopencil]

BURN HER!!



Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.

[chiefs1okie]

I have been a Finance Manager in GM stores for the last fifteen years. I get a huge laugh out of all these manufacturers offering these long powertrain warranties and the consumers that think they will face no repair bills for 50k 60k 70k or 100k miles. It is comical. A powertrain warranty only covers the internally lubricated parts of an engine or transmission. Great! Sounds wonderful....don't have to worry about the engine right? Wrong!!! P/T warranties don't cover items outside the engine block or trans. housing. The way vehicles are built anymore the basic metal components are not where the VAST majority of problems arise. Most failures now can be traced to an electrical or computer failure. Simply put....if your thermostat goes out for example, and your car overheats and the block cracks...you are out of luck. The thermostat is what caused the failure and it would not be a covered component of the powertrain warranty so the failure would not be covered. What would be termed as consequential damage. Now I know late model cars don't have thermostats as we know them but I used that as an example that would be easy to understand. The powers that be don't just pick an arbitrary number to slap on as warranty terms, they use facts and data to determine where the limits of their liabilities are stretched without becoming cost prohibitive.

[htismaqe]

I have been a Finance Manager in GM stores for the last fifteen years. I get a huge laugh out of all these manufacturers offering these long powertrain warranties and the consumers that think they will face no repair bills for 50k 60k 70k or 100k miles. It is comical. A powertrain warranty only covers the internally lubricated parts of an engine or transmission. Great! Sounds wonderful....don't have to worry about the engine right? Wrong!!! P/T warranties don't cover items outside the engine block or trans. housing. The way vehicles are built anymore the basic metal components are not where the VAST majority of problems arise. Most failures now can be traced to an electrical or computer failure. Simply put....if your thermostat goes out for example, and your car overheats and the block cracks...you are out of luck. The thermostat is what caused the failure and it would not be a covered component of the powertrain warranty so the failure would not be covered. What would be termed as consequential damage. Now I know late model cars don't have thermostats as we know them but I used that as an example that would be easy to understand. The powers that be don't just pick an arbitrary number to slap on as warranty terms, they use facts and data to determine where the limits of their liabilities are stretched without becoming cost prohibitive.

No, the powertrain warranty doesn't cover computer chips or sensors.

The 3-year, 30k comprehensive warranty covers it.

I've bought 4 new cars since 2000 - a Volkswagen, a Jeep, a Chrysler, and a Toyota. I've paid for ONE repair, and that was because I hit a coyote...

[Saulbadguy]

No, the powertrain warranty doesn't cover computer chips or sensors.

The 3-year, 30k comprehensive warranty covers it.

I've bought 4 new cars since 2000 - a Volkswagen, a Jeep, a Chrysler, and a Toyota. I've paid for ONE repair, and that was because I hit a coyote...
GM offers Coyote protection with all their new vehicles. And if you get the deeeeelucks model, they will even throw in the undercoating - for free.

[jjjayb]

No, the powertrain warranty doesn't cover computer chips or sensors.

The 3-year, 30k comprehensive warranty covers it.

I've bought 4 new cars since 2000 - a Volkswagen, a Jeep, a Chrysler, and a Toyota. I've paid for ONE repair, and that was because I hit a coyote...


That's what he said. Powertrain warranties don't cover chips or sensors.

[eazyb81]

A 20 year, 300,000 mile warranty would be better.

[HemiEd]

No, the powertrain warranty doesn't cover computer chips or sensors.

The 3-year, 30k comprehensive warranty covers it.

I've bought 4 new cars since 2000 - a Volkswagen, a Jeep, a Chrysler, and a Toyota. I've paid for ONE repair, and that was because I hit a coyote...

FOUR new cars in six years? Damn, I would hope you have not had to pay for any repairs. LMAO

[sedated]

Aliquam dui. Fusce aliquet, augue quis feugiat tincidunt, nulla nibh vestibulum massa, id nonummy risus dolor non sapien. Ut nisi. Suspendisse ornare condimentum ligula. Integer posuere ante aliquam erat. Cras sagittis, sem at molestie pretium, nunc lacus consequat orci, ac viverra purus lacus a tortor. Vivamus tristique. Nullam non quam at nunc dapibus volutpat. Cras suscipit lacinia sem. Vivamus ac enim. Duis metus pede, venenatis non, mollis nec, semper vel, massa.

Sim sala bim bamba sala do saladim

[htismaqe]

FOUR new cars in six years? Damn, I would hope you have not had to pay for any repairs. LMAO

Yeah, I'm indecisive and grow bored easily.

Bought the VW Beetle 12 months before the birth of my 1st child ;). Bought the Jeep because we needed a bigger vehicle and then proceeded to have another kid and needed an even bigger vehicle, leading to the purchase of the Chrysler. Then I changed jobs, acquiring a 45-mile commute and the Jeep had to go when gas hit $2.50.

[Otis99]

I've been saying for years that GM should do this. As long as their warranty has equivalent or better coverage than what Hyundai or Kia offer, it will go a long way to helping them out.

Right now GM needs to take some lumps and start restoring their image with the American public. They made crappy vehicles for quite a long time and they need to get pretty humble if they ever want people to trust them again. This is a great first step. It worked for the Korean automakers. Heck, even my parents went out and bought a Kia and they love it! I would have laughed at them for doing that five years ago - now I'm not so sure they made a bad decision.

Next step for GM: Eliminate Buick. Sorry but young people aren't going to buy them. Ever. Seriously, can you imagine a 26 year old showing off his brand new Buick Lucerne (what a crappy name) to his buddies? "Dude, you bought a LUCERNE! PIMP!". I don't care that you are bringing back portholes or any other retro styling BS that no one cares about. Buick should die, die, die.

Maybe in ten years when my Subaru finally bites the dust I'll consider buying a GM product again.

[Lzen]

About damn time that GM got with the program. When I was looking at trucks last year, I was surprised that GM (and Ford) only had 3 years/36k mile warranties. I thought that was pretty weak.

BTW Otis99, I bought a Buick Skylark when I was 25. ;)

[The Bad Guy]

Hey Rex,

Do you have a number that I can contact GM directly about my shit-ass envoy?

[Deberg_1990]

Next step for GM: Eliminate Buick. Sorry but young people aren't going to buy them. Ever. Seriously, can you imagine a 26 year old showing off his brand new Buick Lucerne (what a crappy name) to his buddies? "Dude, you bought a LUCERNE! PIMP!". I don't care that you are bringing back portholes or any other retro styling BS that no one cares about. Buick should die, die, die.



They cant do that. Buicks are like a mandatory buy once you reach the age of 50.

[Dallas Chief]

I just got a new company car and it is a stinking Malibu. This is one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen. Chevy just doesn't do it for me. It just feels cheap. But hey it's free so I'll deal with it.

Man I am going to miss my Acura....

[HemiEd]

Yeah, I'm indecisive and grow bored easily.

Bought the VW Beetle 12 months before the birth of my 1st child ;). Bought the Jeep because we needed a bigger vehicle and then proceeded to have another kid and needed an even bigger vehicle, leading to the purchase of the Chrysler. Then I changed jobs, acquiring a 45-mile commute and the Jeep had to go when gas hit $2.50.

I like 50% of your choices. :D

Rainman had a thread a while back about how many cars you have owned. That is the first time I have ever written them down, I was shocked.

[MahiMike]

Going out of business.

Exactly. Try and cash in that warranty 10 years from now. Crickets.

[Deberg_1990]

Its still a GM. You can only cover up the stench of turds for so long....

[beavis]

Call me crazy, but maybe they should try making a car that isn't a total piece of crap instead of all of these stupid gimmicks.

I bought an extended warranty on my Ranger 4 years ago (best money I ever spent). Yeah, it's covered a chunk of my repair bills (not nearly al of them), but that doesn't take into account the pain in the ass of having to take your vehicle into the dealership every other month for whatever has broken on it. Not to mention haggling with them over what is/is not covered.

Make a vehicle that doesn't suck, and then maybe we'll talk. But until then, my next vehicle will be foreign.

[HemiEd]

Call me crazy, and then maybe we'll talk. But until then, my next vehicle will be foreign.

I heard those NISSAN, Toyota and Honda places don't even need Service Departments anymore, they are so good.

[beavis]

I heard those NISSAN, Toyota and Honda places don't even need Service Departments anymore, they are so good.
I bet they wouldn't charge me $40 a day to rent a car from them if I did have to take it in.

[HemiEd]

I bet they wouldn't charge me $40 a day to rent a car from them if I did have to take it in.

That is strictly a dealer call from my experience. I have used three different Chrysler dealers locally for service, all different. One has a driver to take you home and pick you up. Another one gives me a loaner and another one tells me to go fish.

[Ugly Duck]

10 year, 100,000 mile warranty is much better.I got that on my Volvo XC70.... 'cept it cost $2,000

[Logical]

10 year, 100,000 mile warranty is much better.I have that on my Jag powertrain.

[Halfcan]

GM will be called Honda Motors in 10 years.

[htismaqe]

About damn time that GM got with the program. When I was looking at trucks last year, I was surprised that GM (and Ford) only had 3 years/36k mile warranties. I thought that was pretty weak.

BTW Otis99, I bought a Buick Skylark when I was 25. ;)

That's because you're a nerd.

[htismaqe]

GM will be called Honda Motors in 10 years.

General Yamamoto's Motors...

[Otter]

God Bless Unions

If they haven't already killed the company, don't worry, it's a matter of time.

[htismaqe]

God Bless Unions

If they haven't already killed the company, don't worry, it's a matter of time.

I can't go to family gatherings anymore.

I can only listen to so much "united we stand" and "we're gonna sue Whirlpool"...

[Otis99]

Buicks target market is 40+
Pontiac is 16-30's
Chevy is everyone
Caddy is for the Rich
Saab is for the refined
Hummer is for men
Saturn 20-40's
GMC is for the upper middle class

Too many lineups for too many markets. Too many brand names get confusing. This might have worked in the 1950s, but there was a lot more differentiation back then. The companies actually had different lineups with few if any crossovers.

Look at how the Japanese do it... You have Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, and Toyota/Lexus. The vast majority of their "upmarket" cars (Acura/Infiniti/Lexus) are restyled version of lower end models like the Honda Accord / Acura TL. But they more than make up for it in luxury and quality, adding a ton of creature comforts and options, bigger engines, that sort of thing. When you are spending $15000 more you expect it. Best of all, it's not very confusing. You only have two brands to worriy about, not seven.

GM does a lot of rebadging / restyling in their lineup too, but they do it at the essentailly same trim level. Why does GM need the Buick Terraza, Chevy Uplander, and Saturn Relay? They are all very, very similar models for imperceptibly different demographics.

Maybe using minivans is a bad example. How about the Chevy Monte Carlo and Pontiac G6? Other than slightly different styling, they are the same car! Even the base price for the Monte and the G6 is the same! Why would I buy a Chevy Cobalt over a Pontiac G5, for that matter?

GM needs to differentiate their brands better and stop wasting money trying to keep so many going at the same time. That is what's killing them, in my opinion. If you are going to reinvent yourself, you have to break 50 year old paradigms. I think they are starting to realize this and I hope they continue to turn things around, but they have a ways to go yet.

[Lzen]

That's because you're a nerd.


4321

[burt]

Too many lineups for too many markets. Too many brand names get confusing. This might have worked in the 1950s, but there was a lot more differentiation back then. The companies actually had different lineups with few if any crossovers.

Look at how the Japanese do it... You have Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, and Toyota/Lexus. The vast majority of their "upmarket" cars (Acura/Infiniti/Lexus) are restyled version of lower end models like the Honda Accord / Acura TL. But they more than make up for it in luxury and quality, adding a ton of creature comforts and options, bigger engines, that sort of thing. When you are spending $15000 more you expect it. Best of all, it's not very confusing. You only have two brands to worriy about, not seven.

GM does a lot of rebadging / restyling in their lineup too, but they do it at the essentailly same trim level. Why does GM need the Buick Terraza, Chevy Uplander, and Saturn Relay? They are all very, very similar models for imperceptibly different demographics.

Maybe using minivans is a bad example. How about the Chevy Monte Carlo and Pontiac G6? Other than slightly different styling, they are the same car! Even the base price for the Monte and the G6 is the same! Why would I buy a Chevy Cobalt over a Pontiac G5, for that matter?

GM needs to differentiate their brands better and stop wasting money trying to keep so many going at the same time. That is what's killing them, in my opinion. If you are going to reinvent yourself, you have to break 50 year old paradigms. I think they are starting to realize this and I hope they continue to turn things around, but they have a ways to go yet.

Glad to see that you have figured out GM's financial woes....I will pass this awesome information along. All this time GM THOUGHT that their financial problems stemmed from paying for the immence amount of retirees that have accumulated over the years!

Now GM simply has to tell it's Buick and Pontiac dealers, "up yours...even though you have been a partner with GM, and been loyal, we are going to cut you off. Sorry, too bad." Not to mention that all of these dealerships have been profitable, or they would have closed themselves. Yep, makes perfect sense...

I have never understood the need for all the similar vehicles through Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac either...but as long as they are profitable....people are buying them. It is not a problem....it is just a curiosity.

The choices are mostly cosmetic...I guess you are against individuality? Gee, let's get Old navy, The GAp and Dillards to all merge to 1 department store....after all the only difference in a pair of jeans is cosmetic....screw it that they are all profitable......

[recxjake]

Glad to see that you have figured out GM's financial woes....I will pass this awesome information along. All this time GM THOUGHT that their financial problems stemmed from paying for the immence amount of retirees that have accumulated over the years!

Now GM simply has to tell it's Buick and Pontiac dealers, "up yours...even though you have been a partner with GM, and been loyal, we are going to cut you off. Sorry, too bad." Not to mention that all of these dealerships have been profitable, or they would have closed themselves. Yep, makes perfect sense...

I have never understood the need for all the similar vehicles through Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac either...but as long as they are profitable....people are buying them. It is not a problem....it is just a curiosity.

The choices are mostly cosmetic...I guess you are against individuality? Gee, let's get Old navy, The GAp and Dillards to all merge to 1 department store....after all the only difference in a pair of jeans is cosmetic....screw it that they are all profitable......

glad someone has a clue around here

[Otis99]

Glad to see that you have figured out GM's financial woes....I will pass this awesome information along. All this time GM THOUGHT that their financial problems stemmed from paying for the immence amount of retirees that have accumulated over the years!

Now GM simply has to tell it's Buick and Pontiac dealers, "up yours...even though you have been a partner with GM, and been loyal, we are going to cut you off. Sorry, too bad." Not to mention that all of these dealerships have been profitable, or they would have closed themselves. Yep, makes perfect sense...

I have never understood the need for all the similar vehicles through Chevy, Buick, and Pontiac either...but as long as they are profitable....people are buying them. It is not a problem....it is just a curiosity.

The choices are mostly cosmetic...I guess you are against individuality? Gee, let's get Old navy, The GAp and Dillards to all merge to 1 department store....after all the only difference in a pair of jeans is cosmetic....screw it that they are all profitable......

Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure no sarcarm was intended or implied. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made that hurt. If that means closing up some dealerships and rebranding others, so be it. You may not agree with my solution to the problem, but you appear to awknowledge that I have a point.

Also, as for your example about clothes - totally different world. There are literally thousands of different clothing retailers - and I'm talking brand names here. There are only a dozen or so auto manufacturers out there that control 95% of the market. Not to mention that clothing, while it can be expensive, is hardly the same as a multi-thousand dollar purchase like a new car.

In the business I am in, I am not owed anything and could get laid off anytime. In fact it happens to entire departments (I work in IT). Where's the love? Are you saying that the auto industry is somehow sacred and that retiring a few nameplates and streamlining the model lineups is beyond reproach? Gotta disagree with you there. GM clearly needs to simplify, and if that means shutting down Buick or Pontiac so be it.

[recxjake]

Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure no sarcarm was intended or implied. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made that hurt. If that means closing up some dealerships and rebranding others, so be it. You may not agree with my solution to the problem, but you appear to awknowledge that I have a point.

Also, as for your example about clothes - totally different world. There are literally thousands of different clothing retailers - and I'm talking brand names here. There are only a dozen or so auto manufacturers out there that control 95% of the market. Not to mention that clothing, while it can be expensive, is hardly the same as a multi-thousand dollar purchase like a new car.

In the business I am in, I am not owed anything and could get laid off anytime. In fact it happens to entire departments (I work in IT). Where's the love? Are you saying that the auto industry is somehow sacred and that retiring a few nameplates and streamlining the model lineups is beyond reproach? Gotta disagree with you there. GM clearly needs to simplify, and if that means shutting down Buick or Pontiac so be it.


If you have followed any of GM's reorganization you would know this:

1. They are killing no brands
2. They are combining Pontiac, GMC and Buick dealerships
3. Pontiac will only have sporty cars,and will go RWD (and thankfully killing the ugly van and getting rid of the Torrent)
4. Buick is going for the 45+ crowd and will slim down the line up
5. GMC is going to be a step above Chevy trucks
6. Hummer is getting an H4 and HT (Wrangler and truck)
7. Saab is getting completely redone in the next years, modeled after the new concept
8. Chevy's redoing all of there cars now that they have the trucks and SUV's done
9. Saturn is going to be the same as the european brand Opel (Saturn Astra, Aura, Outlook, Sky)
10. More and more hybrids will be coming out... Tahoe, Silverado, Malibu, Aura, Vue (much cheaper then anything else out right now due to BMW, and Chrysler teaming up with GM to create the new hybrid system.
11. More E-85 cars and trucks
12. Long term answer is Hydrogen and they have the GM Sequel... years ahead of the competition

[TinyEvel]

Well, check this out!!!!

WTF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COK8aqXs8h0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfbk25gjs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufUzlrpPZE

[burt]

Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure no sarcarm was intended or implied. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made that hurt. If that means closing up some dealerships and rebranding others, so be it. You may not agree with my solution to the problem, but you appear to awknowledge that I have a point.

Also, as for your example about clothes - totally different world. There are literally thousands of different clothing retailers - and I'm talking brand names here. There are only a dozen or so auto manufacturers out there that control 95% of the market. Not to mention that clothing, while it can be expensive, is hardly the same as a multi-thousand dollar purchase like a new car.

In the business I am in, I am not owed anything and could get laid off anytime. In fact it happens to entire departments (I work in IT). Where's the love? Are you saying that the auto industry is somehow sacred and that retiring a few nameplates and streamlining the model lineups is beyond reproach? Gotta disagree with you there. GM clearly needs to simplify, and if that means shutting down Buick or Pontiac so be it.

I acknowledged a point....not a problem. Your logic is tragically flawed. In the IT business, they lay off entire departments....because they are not contributing enough to profit. The brands you suggest be discontinued....ARE CONTRIBUTING PROFIT. It makes no sense to discontinue a product line, alienating thousands of customers, dealers and employees, when the line is profitable. It really does not make sense just because you and I do not understand the duplicity in the different lines. It's business....and it is about profit.

GM is having a cash flow problem because of longevity of the human being...and GM has quite a nut to keep up with sustaining it's retirees. Keeping profitable lines in production is not a hardship....it is a asset. And the lines that you deem worthy of discontinue...are helping sustaining those retirees, as well as contributing to the bottom line.

As to the example of clothing: ticket price and number of manufactures have nothing to do with anything. Jeans are jeans, with only cosmetic differences. There will continue to be different jeans just as long as they're profitable. Pontiac, Buick and Chevy will continue to be around as long as they are profitable...even IF there is short term financial problems. Ford is in trouble....but they will probably survive...when they figure out how to get through their cash flow problems....and become profitable.

[buddha]

It's called a fire sale. Who knows if they'll even be in business in five years, let alone ten. Hell, they should have gone for 20! What's the difference?

[burt]

It's called a fire sale. Who knows if they'll even be in business in five years, let alone ten. Hell, they should have gone for 20! What's the difference?

Mr. Optimism! People have said such things for years. No fire. Just becoming more enticing to the consumer. Dude, you watch too much negative news and interpret it wrong. BTW.....Gore did NOT invent the internet.

[HemiEd]

Look at how the Japanese do it... You have Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, and Toyota/Lexus. The vast majority of their "upmarket" cars (Acura/Infiniti/Lexus) are restyled version of lower end models like the Honda Accord / Acura TL. .

The reason you have those dual company names is no ****ing bright idea by the Japs. It was a way to get around the import quotas that we tried to put on them.
Of course, their next long term solution was to build assembly plants over here and brainwash our youth.

[htismaqe]

The reason you have those dual company names is no ****ing bright idea by the Japs. It was a way to get around the import quotas that we tried to put on them.
Of course, their next long term solution was to build assembly plants over here and brainwash our youth.

Brainwash our youth?

It's this kind of elitist, arrogant bullshit that makes me want to never buy another American car.

Like jake telling all Toyota owners that they hate America...

[HemiEd]

Brainwash our youth?

It's this kind of elitist, arrogant bullshit that makes me want to never buy another American car.

Like jake telling all Toyota owners that they hate America...


ROFL

[htismaqe]

ROFL

Laugh all you want.

When people tell me I don't love my country because I refuse to buy a Ford or a Chevy, that pisses me off, particularly when 70% of the last Chevy I bought came from MEXICO.

[HemiEd]

Laugh all you want.

When people tell me I don't love my country because I refuse to buy a Ford or a Chevy, that pisses me off, particularly when 70% of the last Chevy I bought came from MEXICO.

I do not blame you for that, it would piss me off too. No where did my statement say that. I sympathize with your local loss of jobs in the appliance industry, similar to what the Aircraft industry is going through in my home town.

Unlike Rexjake, I do not intend to sell cars on this forum. However, I do reserve the right to state my opinion. I have witnessed this love affair with Jap stuff from the beginning. They unloaded more junk in the U.S. market than anyone, before they learned how to build some quality.

My comment about brainwashing the youth comes from what I have witnessed lately. Why do kids pretend to be asian and wear asian tatoos? My Fathers generation lost a lot of lives fighting them after they bombed us. Please excuse me if I am offended by this.

[burt]

Brainwash our youth?

It's this kind of elitist, arrogant bullshit that makes me want to never buy another American car.

Like jake telling all Toyota owners that they hate America...

Dude, I sell Chevy's and WILL NOT disparage someone for chosing a Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Audi...etc. My point is only that GM is now building good cars too... Lexus...100 cars, 94 reported problems...lowly Chevy...per 100 cars, 124 reported problems. that equates to .94 problem per Lexus and 1.24 problems per Chevy...pretty damn close, according to the latest JD Powers.

And now GM has a 5 year 100000 mile drive train warranty..with roadside.. Purchase imports, if that is what ya like, but Chevy is becoming a real value.

[Chief Pote]

I have been a Finance Manager in GM stores for the last fifteen years. I get a huge laugh out of all these manufacturers offering these long powertrain warranties and the consumers that think they will face no repair bills for 50k 60k 70k or 100k miles. It is comical. A powertrain warranty only covers the internally lubricated parts of an engine or transmission. Great! Sounds wonderful....don't have to worry about the engine right? Wrong!!! P/T warranties don't cover items outside the engine block or trans. housing. The way vehicles are built anymore the basic metal components are not where the VAST majority of problems arise. Most failures now can be traced to an electrical or computer failure. Simply put....if your thermostat goes out for example, and your car overheats and the block cracks...you are out of luck. The thermostat is what caused the failure and it would not be a covered component of the powertrain warranty so the failure would not be covered. What would be termed as consequential damage. Now I know late model cars don't have thermostats as we know them but I used that as an example that would be easy to understand. The powers that be don't just pick an arbitrary number to slap on as warranty terms, they use facts and data to determine where the limits of their liabilities are stretched without becoming cost prohibitive.

Ouch...I see. So that's the way GM does their business? I'm sure glad that I purchase sound cars and warranties such as Toyota and Honda.

[The Bad Guy]

I will never buy GM again.Never ever.

As I said in an earlier post, I bought a Gm cert. Envoy in March. I've had nothing but problems. The car, when I'm stopped or at higher speeds, will shake in the middle. The engine has a knocking noise in it too.I've taken it to the dealership three times to fix the problem. 3 times they fix something and say the problem should be gone.

3 times it hasn't been. They keep fixing things, but if I purchased certified, shouldn't have the car been checked inside and out for problems?

How can a certified car be this shitty? I even out of good faith asked the dealership that I bought it from that can't fix it if they will trade it. They told me they'd give me 12 grand for it. 12 grand when I paid 19 four months ago? That's garbage.

I called GM directly last night and told them I want my money back. If I don't get that, I will contact a friend who is a lawyer to get my money back.

F GM.

[StcChief]

So when is someone gonna take over that POS company
and fix it. Get rid of the bloat and all the cars that look alike except trim across Chebby, Pontiac, Buick, Olds, Caddy...

Needs to be a leaner/meaner car not Marketing company


I still wouldn't buy one for 10 years if it happened today.

[Lzen]

Well, check this out!!!!

WTF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COK8aqXs8h0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfbk25gjs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufUzlrpPZE

WTF? Is that part of some kid of GM marketing campaign?

[HemiEd]

I will never buy GM again.Never ever.

As I said in an earlier post, I bought a Gm cert. Envoy in March. I've had nothing but problems. The car, when I'm stopped or at higher speeds, will shake in the middle. The engine has a knocking noise in it too.I've taken it to the dealership three times to fix the problem. 3 times they fix something and say the problem should be gone.

3 times it hasn't been. They keep fixing things, but if I purchased certified, shouldn't have the car been checked inside and out for problems?

How can a certified car be this shitty? I even out of good faith asked the dealership that I bought it from that can't fix it if they will trade it. They told me they'd give me 12 grand for it. 12 grand when I paid 19 four months ago? That's garbage.

I called GM directly last night and told them I want my money back. If I don't get that, I will contact a friend who is a lawyer to get my money back.

F GM.

That really sucks, really. I am curious, who certified this GM certified ride? A Dealer? Is it the same idiot dealer that can not fix it?

[HemiEd]

So when is someone gonna take over that POS company
and fix it. Get rid of the bloat and all the cars that look alike except trim across Chebby, Pontiac, Buick, Olds, Caddy...

Needs to be a leaner/meaner car not Marketing company


I still wouldn't buy one for 10 years if it happened today.

Didn't they already get rid of the bloated Olds a few years ago?

[burt]

Didn't they already get rid of the bloated Olds a few years ago?

yeah...he is really current on events :rolleyes:

[The Bad Guy]

That really sucks, really. I am curious, who certified this GM certified ride? A Dealer? Is it the same idiot dealer that can not fix it?

Yep. The same shit-bag dealer that offered me 12 grand on a trade when they sold it to me for 19 grand 4 months prior.

[OnTheWarpath15]

But...but....

GM's can HOVER. And FLY......

I saw it in a commercial......

Imports don't hover or fly. GM is ahead of the technology curve.

:rolleyes:

[HemiEd]

Yep. The same shit-bag dealer that offered me 12 grand on a trade when they sold it to me for 19 grand 4 months prior.

As I suspected, the dealer is probably the problem. I would get to a better one and make sure you let GM know about this one. I have had better luck with small town dealerships, even though they are not always convenient.

[htismaqe]

I do not blame you for that, it would piss me off too. No where did my statement say that. I sympathize with your local loss of jobs in the appliance industry, similar to what the Aircraft industry is going through in my home town.

Unlike Rexjake, I do not intend to sell cars on this forum. However, I do reserve the right to state my opinion. I have witnessed this love affair with Jap stuff from the beginning. They unloaded more junk in the U.S. market than anyone, before they learned how to build some quality.

My comment about brainwashing the youth comes from what I have witnessed lately. Why do kids pretend to be asian and wear asian tatoos? My Fathers generation lost a lot of lives fighting them after they bombed us. Please excuse me if I am offended by this.

WTF?

I must have missed where kids are pretending to be Asian. Second, you're offended by Asian tatoos? That sounds pretty racist, dude.

[jspchief]

Warranties are written by lawyers to protect the manufacturer, not the consumer.

[htismaqe]

Warranties are written by lawyers to protect the manufacturer, not the consumer.

I work in telecom. With us, it's Service Level Agreements.

Like okie said, SLA's (or in his case warranties) are determined after studying actual failure rates. The company comes up with a number that gives the customer the best possible guarantee while at the same time providing the company with the least possible risk of having to honor it...

[jspchief]

I work in telecom. With us, it's Service Level Agreements.

Like okie said, SLA's (or in his case warranties) are determined after studying actual failure rates. The company comes up with a number that gives the customer the best possible guarantee while at the same time providing the company with the least possible risk of having to honor it...I deal with the same thing with shingle warranties. If your 30 years shingle fails 8 years down the road, don't expect to be getting a new roof.

I tell my customers up front what I said in my previous post.

[Skip Towne]

My Astrovan has 352,000 miles on it. I think I'll stick with Chevy.

[burt]

My Astrovan has 352,000 miles on it. I think I'll stick with Chevy.
:thumb:

[Chieftain58]

The old warranty of 36k was a joke, most people drive that in a year!

[svuba]

Perception of quality is an area where the domestics always fall short of the Asian & German cars.

I rented a ford Taurus recently, and was very dissapointed with the overall lack of quality feel. The dashboard rattled, and accelerator pedal squeeked. The tranny had a major delay before downshifting, and the engine was buzzy. These things may not ever fail, or show up in JD powers statisics, but in my mind they have already failed by not delivering a rewarding driving experience.

The quality feel in my 1995 honda accord was light years better than what ford is offering in a 2006 model. That is just wrong.

I think that will be a large battle for GM / Ford to over come in winning back foreign car drivers. Lots of warts show up in a 5 minute test drive because the quality feel is just not there.

[HemiEd]

The old warranty of 36k was a joke, most people drive that in a year!

That is quite a change from the 12k that used to be the norm.

[Otis99]

If you have followed any of GM's reorganization you would know this:

1. They are killing no brands
2. They are combining Pontiac, GMC and Buick dealerships
3. Pontiac will only have sporty cars,and will go RWD (and thankfully killing the ugly van and getting rid of the Torrent)
4. Buick is going for the 45+ crowd and will slim down the line up
5. GMC is going to be a step above Chevy trucks
6. Hummer is getting an H4 and HT (Wrangler and truck)
7. Saab is getting completely redone in the next years, modeled after the new concept
8. Chevy's redoing all of there cars now that they have the trucks and SUV's done
9. Saturn is going to be the same as the european brand Opel (Saturn Astra, Aura, Outlook, Sky)
10. More and more hybrids will be coming out... Tahoe, Silverado, Malibu, Aura, Vue (much cheaper then anything else out right now due to BMW, and Chrysler teaming up with GM to create the new hybrid system.
11. More E-85 cars and trucks
12. Long term answer is Hydrogen and they have the GM Sequel... years ahead of the competition

Appreciate the response, I think I see where you are coming from now. It sounds like what you are saying is that they are going to give the brands an actual identity rather than just rebadging everything across multiple lineups. At least, I hope that's what you were saying. I still think too many brands is a bad idea, but we'll probably have to just agree to disagree on that.

I still don't understand why GM bought Saab. That company, in my opinion, was not a good acquisition for GM. Saabs are overpriced and very low sales from what I understand. I think this was an attempt at capturing the upmarket demographic. I sat in a Saab convertible at the auto show last year with a sticker price of $47,000. I thought it was ugly and overpriced. Saabs have always been ugly, but they have a reputation for reliability and performance. Low volume though, and it will take GM decades to fully integrate them into the lineup if that's the desired outcome.

Never been much of a fan of hybrids, but that's what the public wants so GM is wise to head in that direction. Hopefully they can innovate in ways others have not. Time will tell.

I gotta tell you though, recxjake - I think you are dead wrong on Hydrogen. Unless we build a ton of nuclear power plants in the very, very near future it's just not viable. If that happens, I give it 50 years before the "Hydrogen Revolution" starts. I'm starting to warm up to Ethanol, but producing it from corn is a dead end. Sugar cane is where it's at with Ethanol.

[buddha]

Mr. Optimism! People have said such things for years. No fire. Just becoming more enticing to the consumer. Dude, you watch too much negative news and interpret it wrong. BTW.....Gore did NOT invent the internet.

People have been saying GM was circling the toilet bowl because it's true. Oldsmobile is all but dead and market share in all but a few models has continued to dwindle.

I don't watch the news, I read. The numbers tell the story and it's a joke to even mention GM in the same breath with a Toyota or Honda.

As for your Gore comment, try to stay on topic. :shake:

[recxjake]

Appreciate the response, I think I see where you are coming from now. It sounds like what you are saying is that they are going to give the brands an actual identity rather than just rebadging everything across multiple lineups. At least, I hope that's what you were saying. I still think too many brands is a bad idea, but we'll probably have to just agree to disagree on that.

I still don't understand why GM bought Saab. That company, in my opinion, was not a good acquisition for GM. Saabs are overpriced and very low sales from what I understand. I think this was an attempt at capturing the upmarket demographic. I sat in a Saab convertible at the auto show last year with a sticker price of $47,000. I thought it was ugly and overpriced. Saabs have always been ugly, but they have a reputation for reliability and performance. Low volume though, and it will take GM decades to fully integrate them into the lineup if that's the desired outcome.

Never been much of a fan of hybrids, but that's what the public wants so GM is wise to head in that direction. Hopefully they can innovate in ways others have not. Time will tell.

I gotta tell you though, recxjake - I think you are dead wrong on Hydrogen. Unless we build a ton of nuclear power plants in the very, very near future it's just not viable. If that happens, I give it 50 years before the "Hydrogen Revolution" starts. I'm starting to warm up to Ethanol, but producing it from corn is a dead end. Sugar cane is where it's at with Ethanol.

1. fewer models for each brand is a good thing
2. Saab is profitable, that is all that matters
3. GM has to do hyrbids, and I believe theres is better due to the lower cost
4. How does nuclear power plants have anything to do with hydrogen cars?

[buddha]

Dude, I sell Chevy's and WILL NOT disparage someone for chosing a Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Audi...etc. My point is only that GM is now building good cars too... Lexus...100 cars, 94 reported problems...lowly Chevy...per 100 cars, 124 reported problems. that equates to .94 problem per Lexus and 1.24 problems per Chevy...pretty damn close, according to the latest JD Powers.

And now GM has a 5 year 100000 mile drive train warranty..with roadside.. Purchase imports, if that is what ya like, but Chevy is becoming a real value.

Look, I respect the fact that you sell the cars, but I rent probably 100 cars per year on business trips. I cringe when I see a GM car waiting for me in space 17. These aren't tricked out cars, but they are new. Buick Regals ALWAYS have something loose on them and usually rattle. I could continue down the list, but it's pointless. It's great they are providing a better warrantey for the drivetrain, but how about the rest of the vehicle?

GM is no more an American auto than Toyota is Japanese. My Camry is built in Kentucky with parts from different parts of the world. We already know how much reliance GM has on Mexico for its parts.

The days of people saying "build American, buy American," are justifiably over for the most part in this industry. It's a global market and the BEST car wins...just as it should be.

[KC-TBB]

Yugo's Rule! ROFL ROFL ROFL

[Otis99]

4. How does nuclear power plants have anything to do with hydrogen cars?

The hydrogen has to come from somewhere. You cannot mine, drill, or refine any existing materials and turn them into hydrogen. You have to take an existing source of energy - namely electricity -and use it to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen. Where do you think the electricity comes from to make the hydrogen? Right now, that electricity comes from coal fired power plants.

I said nuclear because unless you have a huge, massive, abundant, and most importantly ultra cheap source of electricity with which to create hydrogen, it's a waste. Since right now hydrogen is produced by burning coal, you'd be better off eliminating the middleman and producing electric cars. Or better yet, cars that run off of coal. Each time you convert energy from one source to another you pay a cost in lost efficiency.

So nuclear is massively relevant to the discussion of hydrogen. Unless you have another idea on where that electricity is going to come from.

I realize that this is getting more than a bit off topic.

[HemiEd]

Look, I respect the fact that you sell the cars, but I rent probably 100 cars per year on business trips. I cringe when I see a GM car waiting for me in space 17. These aren't tricked out cars, but they are new. Buick Regals ALWAYS have something loose on them and usually rattle.

I rent quite few cars myself. I refuse the car at the counter if it is not what I want. In California recently they tried to put me in ****ing Daewoo! Nope, not me. I have found no such fit/finish issues with any of my rentals.

[burt]

People have been saying GM was circling the toilet bowl because it's true. Oldsmobile is all but dead and market share in all but a few models has continued to dwindle.

I don't watch the news, I read. The numbers tell the story and it's a joke to even mention GM in the same breath with a Toyota or Honda.

As for your Gore comment, try to stay on topic. :shake:


Um, excuse me Mr. Reader....Olds IS closed....try reading current events.....

Oh, and as to the Gore comment...go back and READ IT again.....but turn on your sarcasm meter first.

[burt]

It's a global market and the BEST car wins...just as it should be.

We agree...and BTW, that is why GM is NOT circling the drain.....we are still the number 1 manufacturer of Automobiles in the US. But you know that already, because you can read.....