Who was the better coach when he was with the Chiefs? [Archive]

ChiefsFanatic

09-20-2006, 12:40 AM

This poll will be a runaway.

While Marty always fell short DV never accomplished $#it...

Yeah, I wonder who voted for DV. Marty never went 6-10, and Marty lost, what, three, four times as many playoff games.

glennst

09-20-2006, 12:43 AM

Marty has a proven track record of bringing winning seasons to teams in a slump. He did it with the Browns, the Chiefs, and currently the Chargers.

Look at the Chiefs record before and after Marty arrived.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kanindex.htm

Browns record:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cleindex.htm

Marty's record (Notice only two losing seasons in career):
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SchoMa0.htm

Marty has more wins than any other coach in the league.

Rausch

09-20-2006, 12:45 AM

Marty has more wins than any other coach in the league.

Correction: Marty now has the MOST wins of any HC without a SB win.

Congrats....................****er...

glennst

09-20-2006, 01:17 AM

Correction: Marty now has the MOST wins of any HC without a SB win.

Congrats....................****er...

No. Marty has more wins than any other coach currently coaching in the nfl, period. 188 to be exact.

Miles

09-20-2006, 01:29 AM

The Schottenheimer and Montana days made me a Chiefs fan.

eChief

09-20-2006, 03:37 AM

The Schottenheimer and Montana days made me a Chiefs fan.

Those days were all Montana. If Marty would have been a better coach the Chiefs would have won the Super Bowl during the period.

patteeu

09-20-2006, 05:21 AM

They both did some magical things, but Marty's magic won.

OldTownChief

09-20-2006, 05:41 AM

No. Marty has more wins than any other coach currently coaching in the nfl, period. 188 to be exact.

I would have guessed Gibbs had more.

OldTownChief

09-20-2006, 05:43 AM

Not even close. Marty in a landslide.

OldTownChief

09-20-2006, 05:45 AM

Those days were all Montana.

Bullshit. Montana was a big part of it but it was all about the D back then as it should be.

milkman

09-20-2006, 06:37 AM

Correction: Marty now has the MOST wins of any HC without a SB appearence.

Congrats....................****er...

FYP

Deberg_1990

09-20-2006, 06:38 AM

WHat a dumb question. Its not even an argument.

greg63

09-20-2006, 06:41 AM

Apples and oranges; you're comparing two different football eras. There are too many variables to make this a fair comparison between the two coaches.

That being said: Marty had way more play-off success while with the Chiefs.

Skip Towne

09-20-2006, 06:46 AM

I saw a poll a couple of years ago that had Marty being the most popular coach the Chiefs have ever had. More popular than Stram.

Wile_E_Coyote

09-20-2006, 06:52 AM

Marty would hire any family member that needed a job. Once you were hired by DV, you became family & couldn't lose your job

Bwana

09-20-2006, 06:54 AM

Marty, without question.

htismaqe

09-20-2006, 07:35 AM

Even *I* voted for Marty...

:shudder:

Brock

09-20-2006, 07:42 AM

Marty, with about 10 caveats.

burt

09-20-2006, 08:41 AM

I refuse to vote in any poll with a Gaz option.....

Baby Lee

09-20-2006, 08:55 AM

3-38

Anyone know how to slice pie 38 ways?

ROFL ROFL

milkman

09-20-2006, 09:10 AM

Even *I* voted for Marty...

:shudder:

The reality is that the data that we have to compare are essentially regular season success, and postseason failure.

Marty's Chiefs went to the playoffs in what, 6 of 10 seasons.
Dick's went to the playoffs in 1 of 5.

Neither fared well in the post season.
Marty did get to a conference championship game in '93, but beyond that he failed miserably in 5 other post season appearences, while Dick lost his single post season game.

Facts clearly show that Marty was the better Chiefs coach.

I am the leader of Marty bashing, but I am objective enough to acknowledge the obvious.

Amnorix

09-20-2006, 09:11 AM

So does this poll result mean that Marty is the second best HC of the Chiefs, evah, behand Hank Stram?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Chief Chief

09-20-2006, 09:11 AM

I don't recall Marty making anything remotely similar to a "diaper" comment regarding any Chiefs' #1 draft pick...

milkman

09-20-2006, 09:12 AM

I refuse to vote in any poll with a Gaz option.....

So you voted, then?

Baby Lee

09-20-2006, 09:13 AM

I don't recall Marty making anything remotely similar to a "diaper" comment regarding any Chiefs' #1 draft pick...
He did allegedly offer one of their GFs/wives a Dicken's Cider, though.

milkman

09-20-2006, 09:14 AM

I don't recall Marty making anything remotely similar to a "diaper" comment regarding any Chiefs' #1 draft pick...

He didn't have LJ.

If he did, he would have told LJ, "There's a gleam in your diapers".

htismaqe

09-20-2006, 09:17 AM

3-38

Anyone know how to slice pie 38 ways?

ROFL ROFL

ROFL

htismaqe

09-20-2006, 09:19 AM

The reality is that the data that we have to compare are essentially regular season success, and postseason failure.

Marty's Chiefs went to the playoffs in what, 6 of 10 seasons.
Dick's went to the playoffs in 1 of 5.

Neither fared well in the post season.
Marty did get to a conference championship game in '93, but beyond that he failed miserably in 5 other post season appearences, while Dick lost his single post season game.

Facts clearly show that Marty was the better Chiefs coach.

I am the leader of Marty bashing, but I am objective enough to acknowledge the obvious.

Yep. Exactly how I feel.

boogblaster

09-20-2006, 09:36 AM

Marty had everything but..his QB was shit.. he should have played Gannon..we just might have gone all-the-way.....

Archie Bunker

09-20-2006, 09:38 AM

Predarat

09-20-2006, 09:50 AM

Marty for revitalizing the Chiefs.

NaptownChief

09-20-2006, 09:53 AM

1 playoff appearance and zero playoff wins in 5 years is so poor that the only Chiefs HC we should be comparing DV to is Gunther and Ganz.

milkman

09-20-2006, 09:59 AM

So does this poll result mean that Marty is the second best HC of the Chiefs, evah, behand Hank Stram?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I would say so but I am a young pup who starting being a Chiefs fan around the time Marty came to KC. One of the older guys might have a different opinion.

The problem with that poll is that most of the people, like you, are too young to remember Hank Stram.

The fact is that Hank was an innovative coach, both offensively and defensively, who took the Chiefs to the SB twice in 4 years, winning one.

His Chiefs also won more AFL Championships than any AFL team in the existence of that league.

Hank's a HOF coach who won in the post season, as well as the regular season.

Unless Marty wins in the post season, it's unlikely he'll get into the HoF (Chuck Knox isn't there), and he is far from innovative.

Hank Stram was the better coach, by far.

Baby Lee

09-20-2006, 10:02 AM

1 playoff appearance and zero playoff wins in 5 years is so poor that the only Chiefs HC we should be comparing DV to is Wiggin, Bettis, Levy, Macovic, Ganz, and Cunningham.
FYP.

Brock

09-20-2006, 10:04 AM

1 playoff appearance and zero playoff wins in 5 years is so poor that the only Chiefs HC we should be comparing DV to is Gunther and Ganz.

Well, let's not talk about playoff wins. That significantly narrows the margin.

Kerberos

09-20-2006, 10:27 AM

GAZ kicks both thier homer asses!

:harumph:

.

eChief

09-20-2006, 11:04 AM

Bullshit. Montana was a big part of it but it was all about the D back then as it should be.

If Marty was a coach, he would have turned the whole team into a support mechanism to let Joe do what he did best, and that is win the big games.

The year after Joe retired Marty took camp back to the basics and worked the ass off of all of the players, had he done that a year earlier there would have been a more effective team on both sides of the line.

The years Joe was there the Chiefs lived more off of his ability and less from the coaching ability of Marty.

burt

09-20-2006, 11:13 AM

GAZ kicks both thier homer asses!

:harumph:

.

:toast: we agreee!

Brock

09-20-2006, 11:14 AM

Bullshit. Montana was a big part of it but it was all about the D back then as it should be.

2 of 3 of Marty's Chief playoff wins happened as a result of Joe Montana's play. It certainly wasn't a coincidence.

Mr. Laz

09-20-2006, 11:16 AM

easily marty ......

1. Hank Stram
2. Marty shottenheimer

way down here ... everyone else.

the stats dictate that

htismaqe

09-20-2006, 12:21 PM

The problem with that poll is that most of the people, like you, are too young to remember Hank Stram.

The fact is that Hank was an innovative coach, both offensively and defensively, who took the Chiefs to the SB twice in 4 years, winning one.

His Chiefs also won more AFL Championships than any AFL team in the existence of that league.

Hank's a HOF coach who won in the post season, as well as the regular season.

Unless Marty wins in the post season, it's unlikely he'll get into the HoF (Chuck Knox isn't there), and he is far from innovative.

Hank Stram was the better coach, by far.

Excellent post.

Stram's defense was arguably as influential in modern football as Coryell's offense...

In fact, much of today's NFL "style" came out of the old AFL...

DaneMcCloud

09-20-2006, 12:24 PM

Marty all the way. Just the fact that he coached the Chiefs to AFC Championship, not to mention only one losing season in 10.

Vermiel's reign was an excerise in futility, made even more dramatically pronounced by our current team's reversal of fortune.

el borracho

09-20-2006, 12:39 PM

Marty was so far above Vermeil in his time here it would require the Hubble telescope just for Vermeil to see Marty. Marty had only one losing season, made the playoffs numerous times, and reached the AFC Championship game. Things were so bad under Vermeil that the commisioner of the league actually made fun of us.

38yrsfan

09-20-2006, 01:42 PM

No doubt at all ... Schottenheimer ahead of Vermeil. He just needed a playoff consultant/temporary coach "fill-in" when the playoffs came around.

Overall best is without a doubt Hank Stram. I was fortunate enough to be able to watch his teams play. Even after they left Dallas (I lived in Ft.Worth) they were still on the local TV more than the resident Cowboys. There are still a few hardcore Chiefs/Dallas "Texans" fans in that area!

greg63

09-20-2006, 11:11 PM

I refuse to vote in any poll with a Gaz option.....

But it doesn't have a Gaz option. :shrug:

I personally don't usually vote without a Gaz option. :D

007

09-20-2006, 11:13 PM

Yep, the landslide I expected.

greg63

09-20-2006, 11:15 PM

Yep, the landslide I expected.

This couldn't have been anything but....

HemiEd

09-21-2006, 06:19 AM

Marty for revitalizing the Chiefs.

No question he turned the team around from a long period of ineptness. However, Dick inherited a mess as well. The team was loaded with overpaid, lazy and selfish "players." The roster was a mess and an embarrassment.

patteeu

09-21-2006, 06:52 AM

So does this poll result mean that Marty is the second best HC of the Chiefs, evah, behand Hank Stram?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Other than Dick Vermeil, who at least brought us some excitement even if it didn't translate into consistent winning on the field, no one else is even close. And all you have to do is look at the results of this poll to see that Dick Vermeil wasn't very close either.

Marty is definitely in the top 2 HC's in Chiefs history. There's probably more argument about whether he's #1 than about whether he's #3 or worse.*

----------------------
* This is intended to be a comment about how big the drop-off is after Marty, not about how strong the argument is that Marty is #1.

FloridaMan88

09-21-2006, 08:54 AM

No question he turned the team around from a long period of ineptness. However, Dick inherited a mess as well. The team was loaded with overpaid, lazy and selfish "players." The roster was a mess and an embarrassment.

Yep people overlook just how dire things were for the Chiefs when Vermeil arrived back in 2001.

The Chiefs were $30+ million over the cap, were forced to release their starting QB who had thrown 28 TDs and made the Pro Bowl the previous season, were forced to, for a variety of reasons, release key veteran players such as James Hasty and Kimble Anders and experienced the retirement of key players such as Tim Grunhard. And the Chiefs starting RB at the time? Mike Cloud.

greg63

09-21-2006, 09:55 AM

HemiEd

09-21-2006, 10:43 AM

Yep people overlook just how dire things were for the Chiefs when Vermeil arrived back in 2001.

The Chiefs were $30+ million over the cap, were forced to release their starting QB who had thrown 28 TDs and made the Pro Bowl the previous season, were forced to, for a variety of reasons, release key veteran players such as James Hasty and Kimble Anders and experienced the retirement of key players such as Tim Grunhard. And the Chiefs starting RB at the time? Mike Cloud.

Exactly, and Dan Williams always had misterious injuries and a huge salary. Dick inherited a Defense that was 19th in the NFL and an offense that was 9th. Vermeil brought in a leader that we are bemoaning the loss of right now.

MahiMike

09-21-2006, 10:46 AM

This is an unfair poll. Marty did a great job of getting guys to play over their heads. But that was useless in the playoffs when the talent level was greater. DV had the best plan to win in the playoffs. It wasn't his fault that Carl brought back Gunther!