Should the Chiefs start Croyle the rest of the year?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Or try and "save" the season with Huard at QB?

If you had to choose one, which would it be?

[TEX]

IMHO, the Chiefs should keep Croyle on the bench. Maybe give him some time in games the outcome has already been decided. No way I'd want to risk ruining him behind our O-line, which isn't very good at the moment.

[burt]

IMHO, the Chiefs should keep Croyle on the bench. Maybe give him some time in games the outcome has already been decided. No way I'd want to risk ruining him behind our O-line, which isn't very good at the moment.

With the strides Huard made last week, keep him in...til (if) Green comes back. SAVE THE KID!!!!

[StcChief]

Let Croyle learn don't throw him to wolves until we get o ur OLine issues resolved. 2007

[Cormac]

Croyle is nowhere near ready, IMO. He didn't even play much at all during TC. I think playing him now (except some mop-up minutes) will set him back, rather than bring him on.

Keep him on the bench.

JMO.

[RedandGold]

Let Croyle learn don't throw him to wolves until we get o ur OLine issues resolved. 2007

No kidding!

Who in their right mind would want to put an undersized, fragile rookie QB under center when we have SEVERE pass protection issues.

Let Croyle bulk up, heal, and learn this season, and we can talk about playing him next year if Green retires AND we get our OL fixed.

[Fish]

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.... I know he's the best candidate we've had in a long time to be a QBOTF, and we should be careful not to rush it.... but at the same time injuries like this are how young QBs make their break.

With Huard doing OK, I don't see Croyle coming in though.

[NJ Chief Fan]

the kids been around some bad offensive lines, and has been known to take a beating, but it didnt break his confidence, but this is the NFL and it could be another story, i rather wait to atleast week 10 before throwing him to the sharks. that is if green doesnt make a come back, but if green does in fact come back, and we are in contention for the playoffs, then no wait out this season and hope to get some OT help via draft and free agentcy

[TRR]

Play him. Croyle is never going to bulk up to the size fans want him to be at. Let him at least get some snaps. That's why KC drafted him in the 3rd round. I'm sure Croyle isn't saying he'd rather sit on the bench. Give the kid some snaps and see how he does.

[B_Ambuehl]

Name one thing Huard can do that Croyle (or any other quarterback) can't do?

[Coogs]

Play him. If we keep the offense tight to the vest like we did in Denver, he should be fine. That is what Pittsburgh did with Rothlisberger. Let him grow that way.

[Archie Bunker]

Play him. If we keep the offense tight to the vest like we did in Denver, he should be fine. That is what Pittsburgh did with Rothlisberger. Let him grow that way.

Exactly.

[Cormac]

Name one thing Huard can do that Croyle (or any other quarterback) can't do?

Take a hit without the fans cringing.....

:shrug:

[Skip Towne]

I would love to see him get some game experience but I think it is too risky healthwise. I'm pretty sure the training table and weightroom can put 15 lbs on him.

[Hoover]

Let Haurd play vs the 49ers, if he lays an egg then we should have this dicussion.

I think if we are winning big or getting blown out we should give the Rook some playing time. Otherwise let him learn.

[Deberg_1990]

Id say wait until at least midseason or so before we start him. We have to wait until we know our season is un-salvagable. If we lose the next 2 games and are sitting at 0-4, then its time to start him.

[HC_Chief]

None of the above.

Croyle needs a year to learn this system and to add some bulk. He has a very slight build; it has led to numerous injuries. The offense we run is VERY difficult for the QB... the onus is on him.

Now, if you are suggesting we <i>permanently</i> move away from a Coryell variant in favor of a ball control/playaction offense, then I can see why some people want Croyle in there. I still think it's a bad idea due to his needing to add 10-15lbs.

[milkman]

Play him. If we keep the offense tight to the vest like we did in Denver, he should be fine. That is what Pittsburgh did with Rothlisberger. Let him grow that way.

And Carson Palmer sat for his first season behind Jon Kitna, and was quite possibly the best QB in the NFL last year, in his second NFL season.

[milkman]

Take a hit without the fans cringing.....

:shrug:

Of course, watching Huard play is making the fans cringe anyway.

[HC_Chief]

And Carson Palmer sat for his first season behind Jon Kitna, and was quite possibly the best QB in the NFL last year, in his second NFL season.

Same w/ Phillip Rivers.

[milkman]

Same w/ Phillip Rivers.

Rivers hasn't done anything yet.

[Kyle401]

But, Rothlisberger won a superbowl. Palmer and Rivers haven't.

[HC_Chief]

Rivers hasn't done anything yet.

He has looked extremely good at the helm in SD. He sure as hell hasn't looked like a first-year QB.

[HC_Chief]

But, Rothlisberger won a superbowl. Palmer and Rivers haven't.

My ass he did. The Pitt DEFENSE and RUNNING GAME won them a SB. Roethlisberger does what he is supposed to do: throw an occassional pass, hand the ball off to the RB, and refrain from losing the game.

Palmer runs a no-huddle because he knows that offense inside and out. He can win a game for his team w/ his arm.

Rivers has been very impressive thus far. He has shown a very good grasp on arguably the most complex offensive system in the league (Coryell variant).

[milkman]

But, Rothlisberger won a superbowl. Palmer and Rivers haven't.

Trent Dilfer won a SB.
Dan Marino and Dan Fouts never did.

[milkman]

He has looked extremely good at the helm in SD. He sure as hell hasn't looked like a first-year QB.

At this point in time, Rivers looks like he will be making me eat crow by the end of the year.

He has looked good so far, and I didn't expect him to amount to much.

[HC_Chief]

At this point in time, Rivers looks like he will be making me eat crow by the end of the year.

He has looked good so far, and I didn't expect him to amount to much.

I definitely didn't expect him to come out playing like he has. I was one of those people who called SD stoopid for letting Brees walk.

Brees has also looked very good in NO.

[Coogs]

And Carson Palmer sat for his first season behind Jon Kitna, and was quite possibly the best QB in the NFL last year, in his second NFL season.

Very true. My guess is that he would have had success in his first year as well, but we will never know.

Here is my thinking (take that FWIW). The draft next year is going to have to be heavy on the offensive side of the ball. No time like the present to find out if QB is going to be a need come draft day.

There you have it, short and sweet.

[Deberg_1990]

At this point in time, Rivers looks like he will be making me eat crow by the end of the year.

He has looked good so far, and I didn't expect him to amount to much.

I will eat crow as well. Especially considering that hes been developed by Marty (QB Killer) Schottenheimer. Brees and now Rivers....who wouda thunk it???

[HC_Chief]

I will eat crow as well. Especially considering that hes been developed by Marty (QB Killer) Schottenheimer. Brees and now Rivers....who wouda thunk it???

Marty appears to have learned from past mistakes. He let his OC handle the offense.... which was very smart. Hell, they run the same system we run! (well, <i>ran</i> when Trent Green was QB)

[Kyle401]

Heh!

Rothlisberger... made some big plays and avoided big mistakes = SB win. Palmer... who knows if he hadn't been injured. Rivers... hasn't had the opportunity yet.

Bottom line... There is no sure fire way to ensure that a QB will succeed or fail in the NFL. The decision to sit or start Croyle this season shouldn't be made for the purposes of "protecting" his confidence. If his confidence is that fragile, he isn't our QBOTF.

[Deberg_1990]

Very true. My guess is that he would have had success in his first year as well, but we will never know.

Here is my thinking (take that FWIW). The draft next year is going to have to be heavy on the offensive side of the ball. No time like the present to find out if QB is going to be a need come draft day.

There you have it, short and sweet.


This is actually Palmers 4th year in the league but 3rd year starting. The 1st year he started (2004), he was just average, but still good for a rookie.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337/career;_ylt=An8DCaN2uprdcwKAXEKwKIP.uLYF

[Chiefnj]

I don't think it's going to matter much who the QB is. I think the two biggest problems are the OL in pass protection and the playcalling at critical times.

[Deberg_1990]

Marty appears to have learned from past mistakes.

Ill believe it in the playoffs when i see it.

[milkman]

I will eat crow as well. Especially considering that hes been developed by Marty (QB Killer) Schottenheimer. Brees and now Rivers....who wouda thunk it???

As you know, I am as critical of Marty as anyone.

However, I always felt that the rep he got as a poor QB developer was unwarranted.

His problem, IMO, was that he had crappy offensive staffs.

I wouldn't want Joe Pendry, Paul Hackett, or Jimmy Raye developing a young QB.

Bernie Kosar was developed in in Cleveland under Marty, and Brees and Rivers SD were/are.

Marty deserves the blame for selecting the sorryass offensive coaches that failed in QB development.

But Marty isn't the QB killer some make him out to be.

[Skip Towne]

I will eat crow as well. Especially considering that hes been developed by Marty (QB Killer) Schottenheimer. Brees and now Rivers....who wouda thunk it???
What the haters don't realize is that Marty is constantly evolving. He has a good shot at the SB.

[milkman]

Ill believe it in the playoffs when i see it.

Yeah, he hasn't yet learned from those mistakes.

[HC_Chief]

Heh!

Rothlisberger... made some big plays and avoided big mistakes = SB win. Palmer... who knows if he hadn't been injured. Rivers... hasn't had the opportunity yet.

Bottom line... There is no sure fire way to ensure that a QB will succeed or fail in the NFL. The decision to sit or start Croyle this season shouldn't be made for the purposes of "protecting" his confidence. If his confidence is that fragile, he isn't our QBOTF.

Has absolutely nothing to do w/ confidence... it has to do w/ learning the offense and staying healthy. Again, this isn't a ball control playaction O like Pittsburgh runs... this is a Coryell variant. It is the most difficult offense for the QB... it all hinges on him. It's all timing and route trees... the QB must know where everyone is at a given point in time on each play.

As far as staying healthy is concerned, the kid needs a year of weightlifting and proper diet to put on 10-15 lbs. We knew that when we drafted him... it's the reason he fell as far as he did! We also drafted him w/ a probowl QB who had started more consecutive games than any NFL QB not name Favre.... it was a safe bet he'd have at least a year to learn & bulk up.

[Mr. Laz]

IF ............. we are going to run an offense like we ran in Denver then you start the rookie with potential.

why not .... that's one of the things running an ultra conservative offense does for ya. Why not take advantage of it by giving our rookie some experience.

[el borracho]

Two things would have to happen before I would put Croyle in:

1) Trent becomes officially unavailable for the rest of the season.
2) The Chiefs become eliminated from the playoffs this year.

[Deberg_1990]

What the haters don't realize is that Marty is constantly evolving. He has a good shot at the SB.

I dont hate Marty. Ill be very happy for him if he ever gets to a SB and wins. I will admit it will be somewhat bittersweet though.

Like ive always said, ill believe it in the playoffs when i see it. Marty is the best REGULAR SEASON coach of all time.

[milkman]

This is actually Palmers 4th year in the league but 3rd year starting. The 1st year he started (2004), he was just average, but still good for a rookie.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337/career;_ylt=An8DCaN2uprdcwKAXEKwKIP.uLYF

I missed a year?

Oh well.
The point still remains.

There is no exact blueprint for developing young QBs.

[HC_Chief]

IF ............. we are going to run an offense like we ran in Denver then you start the rookie with potential.

why not .... that's one of the things running an ultra conservative offense does for ya. Why not take advantage of it by giving our rookie some experience.

That BIG IF means we are going to permanently scrap the Coryell variant offense in favor of ball-control. That would be stupid, IMO.

Croyle still needs to add weight, regardless of offensive system. True, if we run ball-control, his slight build is minimized, but it will be scary... any given hit may knock him out for weeks.

[The Rick]

I am utterly amazed at the ability here at the Planet for an opinion to be formed, then be quickly taken as fact, then further opinions are formed around that so-called fact as if it's the truth.

We have absolutely *zero* knowledge of when Trent Green is going to be back. None. Zilch. Nada. Everyone seems to be moving on as if we know for certain he is lost for the season, or worse, has already hung up his cleats and retired. Both of those have been based upon heresay, supposed knowledge of the effects of a concussion (Trent Green's concussion nonetheless...everyone responds differently to a concussion), etc.

Here is what we know at this point:

1) he suffered a concussion
2) we don't know how long he'll be out
3) both he and the team are optimistic about a return this season
4) all indications are that he has no plans to retire

I understand discussing scenarios, but at this point, that's all they are...scenarios. A scenario is "if Green is out for the season, should we do...".

Let's stop taking opinions and turning them into "facts".

[milkman]

I am utterly amazed at the ability here at the Planet for an opinion to be formed, then be quickly taken as fact, then further opinions are formed around that so-called fact as if it's the truth.

We have absolutely *zero* knowledge of when Trent Green is going to be back. None. Zilch. Nada. Everyone seems to be moving on as if we know for certain he is lost for the season, or worse, has already hung up his cleats and retired. Both of those have been based upon heresay, supposed knowledge of the effects of a concussion (Trent Green's concussion nonetheless...everyone responds differently to a concussion), etc.

Here is what we know at this point:

1) he suffered a concussion
2) we don't know how long he'll be out
3) both he and the team are optimistic about a return this season
4) all indications are that he has no plans to retire

I understand discussing scenarios, but at this point, that's all they are...scenarios. A scenario is "if Green is out for the season, should we do...".

Let's stop taking opinions and turning them into "facts".

We are taking an opinion and speculating.
That's all.

You're reading into it more than there is.

[HC_Chief]

:spock:

[Kyle401]

Has absolutely nothing to do w/ confidence... it has to do w/ learning the offense and staying healthy. Again, this isn't a ball control playaction O like Pittsburgh runs... this is a Coryell variant.

Herm Edwards + healthy Trent Green = Vermiel/Saunders' Coryell offense (as interpreted by Solari)

Herm Edwards + Huard/Croyle = ball control play action O

[Mr. Laz]

That BIG IF means we are going to permanently scrap the Coryell variant offense in favor of ball-control. That would be stupid, IMO.
well i agree ...... but don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of going to a pound it out offense.


if we are gonna get our QB hit a bunch each game then go with huard.


if we are going into a shell then go with Croyle.


Huard is NOT our future ...... Croyle MIGHT be.

[htismaqe]

Ahem.

Coryell and ball control aren't mutually exclusive.

See also: Joe Gibbs.

[milkman]

Herm Edwards + healthy Trent Green = Coryell offense

Herm Edwards + Huard/Croyle = ball control play action O

Personally, I think all Hermie ever needed was an excuse to scale down the offense (or Hermonize it, as I like to call it), and Trent's concussion, due to the lack of quality OT play, provides that excuse.

[Kyle401]

Ahem.

Coryell and ball control aren't mutually exclusive.

See also: Joe Gibbs.

See edit... Happy now?

[milkman]

Ahem.

Coryell and ball control aren't mutually exclusive.

See also: Joe Gibbs.


You're right, but I just don't think Hermie has the stomach for the type of passing attack that is the Coryell offense, even in the Gibbs version.

[Kyle401]

Personally, I think all Hermie ever needed was an excuse to scale down the offense (or Hermonize it, as I like to call it), and Trent's concussion, due to the lack of quality OT play, provides that excuse.

Perhaps... but, I wouldn't want Huard to try to make every play that we expect Green to make. Herm/Solari scaling back the offense gave us a chance to win on the road, against a division rival, starting a Journeyman career backup at the game's most important position.

[milkman]

Perhaps... but, I wouldn't want Huard to try to make every play that we expect Green to make. Herm/Solari scaling back the offense gave us a chance to win on the road, against a division rival, starting a Journeyman career backup at the game's most important position.

I don't disagree.

But I also don't believe we'll see the same offense we've seen over the last 5 years even when Trent comes back.

Part of that will be due to the O-Line, but a part of that will be Hermie.

[The Rick]

We are taking an opinion and speculating.
That's all.

You're reading into it more than there is.
Sorry. I was talking more about the original post and not as much the follow up posts. It's not just this thread either. I see it all over. This thread just happened to be the lucky one.

I'm not one of those blind "don't say such things about our beloved Trent...he'll be back better than ever" homers. I also don't pretend to think that team officials always provide the all the facts and never "hide" anything from the public. That's just not how it works. However, for the life of me, I can understand how some can already have their minds made up that we've seen the last of Green despite what they may hear or read otherwise.

As for me, I'm skeptical, but optimistic.

[blueballs]

if Jordan Black returns to right tackle
this poll is moot
Huard and Green will both miss more games

[FlaChief58]

None of the above