Oil falls below $60

[KingPriest2]

First time in a long time.

HOvering around 60 dollar mark.

Fed left rates unchanged it was at 61 now right around 60

[Bowser]

Gas at the Quickrip in Pleasant Valley wa 1.99/gal.

I'll be real impressed if the price gets to and stays around 1.69/gal.

[crispystl]

Gas at the Quickrip in Pleasant Valley wa 1.99/gal.

I'll be real impressed if the price gets to and stays around 1.69/gal.


Still 2.09 here in Columbia, Missouri.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Was $2.09 in Belton this morning...

[HC_Chief]

Stock markets are up due to it too. We may be looking at a new closing record! :thumb:

[plbrdude]

saw a news article yesterday saying gas could go toward 1.15 a gal. havin serious doubts tho

[KingPriest2]

Stock markets are up due to it too. We may be looking at a new closing record! :thumb:


Actually it was up 82 points when it came out now it is at 55 up

[Eleazar]

In light of this news, Ford and GM today each launched 67 new models of SUVs and full-size trucks.

[KingPriest2]

saw a news article yesterday saying gas could go toward 1.15 a gal. havin serious doubts tho


That is the same guy who said he expected Oil to hit $100

[StcChief]

It will hang around $2.00

[KingPriest2]

Closed at $60.20

[plbrdude]

It will hang around $2.00

kinda what i'm thinkin. till exxon needs another 11 bil, then we'll see 3.25 for 6 months

[NJ Chief Fan]

you lucky bastiges, cheapest round here is 2.36

[Mr. Laz]

maybe we should have elections every 6 months to keep the Oil prices down.

[Frazod]

you lucky bastiges, cheapest round here is 2.36

Shit, you're the lucky one. Cheapest by me is $2.56.

Funny how increases happen instantly, but decreases take forever.

[jynni]

It actually dropped from 2.19 to 2.09 yesterday. I think that would be the steepest drop I've ever seen in one day.

[DMAC]

In light of this news, Ford and GM today each launched 67 new models of SUVs and full-size trucks.ROFL

Who needs hybrids now!!

[Dartgod]

Shit, you're the lucky one. Cheapest by me is $2.56.

Funny how increases happen instantly, but decreases take forever.
It was $2.79 in Denver this past weekend. Not that it bothers me any. As far as I'm concerned, the cheatin' bastages deserve it.

[htismaqe]

I paid $1.99 last night...

[Skip Towne]

Donger will be along to explain to us what this all means.

[Calcountry]

maybe we should have elections every 6 months to keep the Oil prices down.Chavez for President.

[Iowanian]

I do hope prices come back down to earth....If gas gets down and stays around 1.60, I'll never bitch about that again.

That said, I do hope we've learned our lesson, and will put forth maximum effort to develop a reasonable Alternative fuels so we can tell the oil producing nations to "GFYwaCS"

[HC_Chief]

I do hope prices come back down to earth....If gas gets down and stays around 1.60, I'll never bitch about that again.

That said, I do hope we've learned our lesson, and will put forth maximum effort to develop a reasonable Alternative fuels so we can tell the oil producing nations to "GFYwaCS"

I am very excited about the Honda Hydrogen initiatives. The HES system looks very impressive. Won't be long now... we'll be driving hydrogen-powered vehicles and the ME can f*ck off! :D

[Frosty]

you lucky bastiges, cheapest round here is 2.36

Oh, boo hoo. $3.03 here.

Of course, that's what I get for living in Far North California. :banghead:

[chief2000]

REal reason it's coming down.

Something the media hasn't covered - Traders.

Traders have been bottlenecking the system by buying lots of oil futures including hedgefunds.

We created a bubble.

Cnbc yesterday reported Amandash or some hedgefund lost billions when energy started coming down.

What a F**KED up system where people are betting up something that screws our economy. There has to be a better way.

[recxjake]

The “Moon Shot”


Bob Lutz
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman

You may have heard by now that last week I told media assembled at our press event in Southern California that GM has big plans for fuel cell technology. The journalists were on hand for their first drive of our landmark Sequel fuel cell vehicle. I told them that this technology was our equivalent of a moon shot and that I’d recommend that we put fuel cell vehicles into production as soon as possible.

That’s all true. I think we should and will do exactly that. But any speculation as to exactly when we will do it and exactly how much it will cost is just that: pure speculation.

What we’ve announced so far is this: we are now launching a fleet of 100-plus vehicles to demonstrate our fuel cell capabilities and raise national awareness of the potential of the hydrogen economy. Assuming we can maintain the great progress we’ve made hitting the cost targets of our fuel cell program, the next step would be about a 1000-vehicle fleet in the 2010-2012 time frame. Then if cost and infrastructure barriers were removed, or at least significantly reduced, we’d look at more significant numbers later in the decade.

The point is, this all sounds like science fiction right now, but I assure you it isn’t. Most journalists were duly impressed with what they drove, declaring the driving experience to be just like “a normal car.” And that’s the goal. All along, we’ve staunchly maintained that we wouldn’t produce fuel cell vehicles unless they matched or bettered the performance, handling and comfort of internal combustion-powered cars and trucks. Well, we think we’re just about there.



Chevy Equinox fuel cell vehicle
Our goal is to be the first manufacturer to put 1 million fuel cell vehicles on the road — profitably — in the global automotive market. The key word there is “global.” Like I said last week, China may be better equipped to switch to the hydrogen economy than the U.S., since they’re significantly less developed and would have a far easier time of it. To really get the ball rolling in the U.S., automakers, suppliers, government and the energy companies have to work together and work quickly. There’s simply no other way.

Let it also be known that we’re not putting all of our eggs in the hydrogen basket. It’s going to take time to make the hydrogen economy a reality, and we have several other alternatives in the works in the meantime, beginning with the expansion of our E85 offerings, and the expansion of our hybrid lineup, as you know. That will be highlighted by the addition of our two-mode hybrid full-size SUVs next year.

We are also studying plug-in hybrids, and will have more to say about those soon. The whole key there is the development of significantly improved battery technology. But rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world; the only question is the nature of the power source or sources.

We’ll have architectures that will be flexible enough to accommodate a number of different sources.

And yes, believe it or not, this really is Bob Lutz talking! We are sitting on the cusp of an explosion of new technology that will change the automotive industry like nothing since its very invention. I never would’ve believed it, but I must say I’m excited to be a part of it.

[KingPriest2]

The “Moon Shot”


Bob Lutz
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman

You may have heard by now that last week I told media assembled at our press event in Southern California that GM has big plans for fuel cell technology. The journalists were on hand for their first drive of our landmark Sequel fuel cell vehicle. I told them that this technology was our equivalent of a moon shot and that I’d recommend that we put fuel cell vehicles into production as soon as possible.

That’s all true. I think we should and will do exactly that. But any speculation as to exactly when we will do it and exactly how much it will cost is just that: pure speculation.

What we’ve announced so far is this: we are now launching a fleet of 100-plus vehicles to demonstrate our fuel cell capabilities and raise national awareness of the potential of the hydrogen economy. Assuming we can maintain the great progress we’ve made hitting the cost targets of our fuel cell program, the next step would be about a 1000-vehicle fleet in the 2010-2012 time frame. Then if cost and infrastructure barriers were removed, or at least significantly reduced, we’d look at more significant numbers later in the decade.

The point is, this all sounds like science fiction right now, but I assure you it isn’t. Most journalists were duly impressed with what they drove, declaring the driving experience to be just like “a normal car.” And that’s the goal. All along, we’ve staunchly maintained that we wouldn’t produce fuel cell vehicles unless they matched or bettered the performance, handling and comfort of internal combustion-powered cars and trucks. Well, we think we’re just about there.



Chevy Equinox fuel cell vehicle
Our goal is to be the first manufacturer to put 1 million fuel cell vehicles on the road — profitably — in the global automotive market. The key word there is “global.” Like I said last week, China may be better equipped to switch to the hydrogen economy than the U.S., since they’re significantly less developed and would have a far easier time of it. To really get the ball rolling in the U.S., automakers, suppliers, government and the energy companies have to work together and work quickly. There’s simply no other way.

Let it also be known that we’re not putting all of our eggs in the hydrogen basket. It’s going to take time to make the hydrogen economy a reality, and we have several other alternatives in the works in the meantime, beginning with the expansion of our E85 offerings, and the expansion of our hybrid lineup, as you know. That will be highlighted by the addition of our two-mode hybrid full-size SUVs next year.

We are also studying plug-in hybrids, and will have more to say about those soon. The whole key there is the development of significantly improved battery technology. But rest assured I truly believe that electric-drive vehicles have a real future in this country and around the world; the only question is the nature of the power source or sources.

We’ll have architectures that will be flexible enough to accommodate a number of different sources.

And yes, believe it or not, this really is Bob Lutz talking! We are sitting on the cusp of an explosion of new technology that will change the automotive industry like nothing since its very invention. I never would’ve believed it, but I must say I’m excited to be a part of it.


Please go away if you are going to pull this crap

[Iowanian]

When that day comes, I do hope they'll allow me to submit my
announcement to the world. I'd love nothing more than to pen that
particular UN presentation.

It'd be a great day to remove ALOT of the financial support we
give to ALOT of ungreatful shitbag nations.

I do hope I live to see the day.



I am very excited about the Honda Hydrogen initiatives. The HES system looks very impressive. Won't be long now... we'll be driving hydrogen-powered vehicles and the ME can f*ck off! :D

[HC_Chief]

Corn ethanol is not a viable alternative. It takes a 1-1.5gal petrolium to produce 1 gal ethanol from corn.

Hydrogen truly is the way to go. It is the most abundant element in the universe! It can be manufactured via solar panels & water (via a reformer), or via natural gas and a reformer.

<a href="http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/">more info from Honda</a>

[Iowanian]

BioD has alot better energy conversion ratio, but recent developments in ethynol are making it alot more viable. There is an enzyme, for example they are adding, that gets quite a bit more oil out of the corn.

I see a day, when the energy, used in the process is a derivative of a renewable fuel.

I don't think its probably the "end all" answer, but I think its a damn good intermediate option for the next...20-30 years.

Even if Hydrogen were made affordably today, it would take quite some time to have a serious impact on petroleum. It appears to be the best long term option we have.

I just hope that the US really breaks the innovation that makes it work, affordably and establishes hydrogen domination of the marketplace.

nothing would do more justice than putting the world at our beck and call for energy resources.....or at least paying homage in the form of patent rights.

[HC_Chief]

I just hope that the US really breaks the innovation that makes it work, affordably and establishes hydrogen domination of the marketplace.

It is highly possible, but my bet is a foreign company (most likely Japanese) will be first to mass-produce and own the patent(s). Reason: Japanese companies have traditionally been quick to adopt bleeding edge technology.

[Iowanian]

You're probably right. They're usually on top of tech stuff, but at least they're friendly with the US(my how things change with the worlds biggest ass kicking).

I must admit...I want Renewable Ag fuels to succeed for good reason....I live in Iowa, and I've put my money where my mouth is on this subject.

I need it to be successful for at least a decade or two. :D

now get out and buy a VW rabbit, semi or something that runs on BioD.

[Pitt Gorilla]

That said, I do hope we've learned our lesson, and will put forth maximum effort to develop a reasonable Alternative fuels so we can tell the oil producing nations to "GFYwaCS"
Exactly. High gas prices certainly served a good purpose. The argument was reframed around alternative fuels. Of course, the public probably hasn't learned a lesson and the Big 3 will probably start rolling out tanks that get 3 gallons to the mile.

[Pitt Gorilla]

BioD has alot better energy conversion ratio, but recent developments in ethynol are making it alot more viable. There is an enzyme, for example they are adding, that gets quite a bit more oil out of the corn.

I see a day, when the energy, used in the process is a derivative of a renewable fuel.

I don't think its probably the "end all" answer, but I think its a damn good intermediate option for the next...20-30 years.

Even if Hydrogen were made affordably today, it would take quite some time to have a serious impact on petroleum. It appears to be the best long term option we have.

I just hope that the US really breaks the innovation that makes it work, affordably and establishes hydrogen domination of the marketplace.

nothing would do more justice than putting the world at our beck and call for energy resources.....or at least paying homage in the form of patent rights.Damn, I agree again. I have a couple of friends who work in the seed and processing fields and ethanol is really in its infancy. Every day, the production of ethanol is becoming more efficient. New hybrid varieties are being developed and technology is improving the conversion process. Oil had a huge head start, but the corn folk are coming along nicely. Of course, Biodiesel is following a similar path.

However, college students around this area have developed means for converting water into hydrogen using a small, solar-powered device. They used a model that other students had used in Wisconsin, I believe. The point is, the technology for this conversion is readily available. We could produce our own fuel using the sun's energy. Roll out those cars...

[Donger]

Shit, you're the lucky one. Cheapest by me is $2.56.

Funny how increases happen instantly, but decreases take forever.

The prices go up faster than they drop because when they purchase new gasoline, they are replacing inventory. They have to make sure that they will be able to sell their new gas at a higher price than what they paid for it (wholesale). That whole profit thing.

[Donger]

Donger will be along to explain to us what this all means.

What all what means, Skip? Do you have a specific question?

[Calcountry]

The prices go up faster than they drop because when they purchase new gasoline, they are replacing inventory. They have to make sure that they will be able to sell their new gas at a higher price than what they paid for it (wholesale). That whole profit thing.This phenomena is not limited to gasoline, but any commodity item such as coffee, peanut butter, or dog food. Economists have provided a name for it, "The Ratcheting effect", and it is as well understood fact that is similar to the law of gravity.

[Donger]

This phenomena is not limited to gasoline, but any commodity item such as coffee, peanut butter, or dog food. Economists have provided a name for it, "The Ratcheting effect", and it is as well understood fact that is similar to the law of gravity.

Don't get me started on the price of dog food. JUST DON'T F*CKING START!

[Calcountry]

Don't get me started on the price of dog food. JUST DON'T F*CKING START!ROFL

[KingPriest2]

If prices keep on going down I wonder when OPEC is going to cut production.

[Dartgod]

$1.99 in Belton last night. WooWoo

[KingPriest2]

$1.99 in Belton last night. WooWoo

2.15 here in joplin. Which is strange considering we are almost always lower then KC IF we are higher it is not much.

[Bowser]

It is highly possible, but my bet is a foreign company (most likely Japanese) will be first to mass-produce and own the patent(s). Reason: Japanese companies have traditionally been quick to adopt bleeding edge technology.

You forgot to include how much this country has invested in big oil.

[jynni]

1.99 this morning in KC!

[HC_Chief]

You forgot to include how much this country has invested in big oil.

...and how much influence "big oil" holds. It is unfortunate.

[chappy]

Isn't it close to Election time?

[Lzen]

The “Moon Shot”


Bob Lutz
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman

You may have heard.........

Can't you just post a link? I really didn't wanna see all that crap.

[morphius]

Isn't it close to Election time?
I put that somewhere as well last week. Getting ready for elections, drop the prices and help the guys who let you rape us continue. The status quo would be very good for them.

[KC-TBB]

Jeeez, who'd thought we would be bragging about $2/gal gas...fricken OPEC!!!

[Calcountry]

I put that somewhere as well last week. Getting ready for elections, drop the prices and help the guys who let you rape us continue. The status quo would be very good for them.I am sorry, but the geopolitics of gasoline prices transcends party politics. To think otherwise is laughable.

[Coach]

So what is the Oil price for today?

Hopefully it fell below 60.

[morphius]

I am sorry, but the geopolitics of gasoline prices transcends party politics. To think otherwise is laughable.
I wouldn't even say it is a single party, FWIW. I just find that everytime there is aCongressional investigation into high prices that the prices seem to fall greatly as a bit of an issue. Are there other factors, absolutly. But that is one that just pisses me off.

[Calcountry]

So what is the Oil price for today?

Hopefully it fell below 60.It ticked up a bit today as of this morning. I think it was trading at about 61 per. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

[OldTownChief]

What all what means, Skip? Do you have a specific question?

Why is it dropping?

[Donger]

Why is it dropping?

Because the summer driving season is over and, therefore, demand is dropping. When demand drops, so does the price of crude. There are a few other factors (no hurricanes, etc.), but the price almost always drops after Labor Day.

[OldTownChief]

Because the summer driving season is over and, therefore, demand is dropping. When demand drops, so does the price of crude. There are a few other factors (no hurricanes, etc.), but the price almost always drops after Labor Day.

I had heard the "no hurricanes" reason but I thought the effect of the drop in demand didn't hit until around January.

[morphius]

Because the summer driving season is over and, therefore, demand is dropping. When demand drops, so does the price of crude. There are a few other factors (no hurricanes, etc.), but the price almost always drops after Labor Day.
Yup, 'cause it drops $1.00 every year after labor day...

[Donger]

I had heard the "no hurricanes" reason but I thought the effect of the drop in demand didn't hit until around January.

No. Demand drops right after the summer driving season ends, like clockwork.

[Donger]

Yup, 'cause it drops $1.00 every year after labor day...

It hasn't dropped $1.00, not even close. But, yes, it does drop almost every year. The fact is that crude was very high this year, and a lot of that was due to the traders being spooked. They aren't as much now.

[Calcountry]

I wouldn't even say it is a single party, FWIW. I just find that everytime there is aCongressional investigation into high prices that the prices seem to fall greatly as a bit of an issue. Are there other factors, absolutly. But that is one that just pisses me off.Fair enough. I will concede that party politics are not precluded from the many coefficients in the linear matrix that makes up the demand function for gasoline, and therefore, necessarily also affects the price to the extent of the weight that that coefficient has on the equation.

[Iowanian]

Interestingly enough, I read an article tonight about a company in Algona IA that is making an engine....a generator size engine, that does something with a hydrogen pump, but runs on Amonia....anehydrous Amonia. They're testing it this year in California with Irrigation equipment.

If it works, it opens the doors for alot of uses....probably not the Automobile....but every little bit helps and leads to the next step.

I see the significance of this, that once they perfect the use of Amonia for an engine, it could be filtered off of things like....sewage lagoons and confinement facilities.

[BigOlChiefsfan]

alternative crops for alternative fuels

http://southwestfarmpress.com/mag/farming_economists_believe_switchgrass/index.html

http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews/enews_0505/enews_0505_Cellulosic_Ethanol.htm

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~brummer/ag/biomass2.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2006-03-28-brazil-ethanol-cover_x.htm

[KingPriest2]

bump

[Brock]

Why do you keep bumping this shit?

[RustShack]

hey maybe in another year you will have 100 posts in this thread